IRC log for #devuan on 20170929

00:01.23Koratsuki84now I see what I need...
00:01.30Koratsuki84thanks to all...
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01:17.23chankuHey
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01:52.48Xenguyo/
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03:58.23blaphope all devuan people are happy and keeping up the struggle
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04:07.00alexlikerockhi
04:08.45Xenguyfeels happy...
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04:43.39blapi'm happy it exists
04:43.53blapit doesn't need to be perfect, just alive
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05:18.42MinceRhaving to deal with irrelevant details (like staircases where diagonal lines should be) also tires the eyes
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05:44.47blapthe first case has a plausible physical explanation - muscles focusing lens back and forth
05:44.58blapthe second case seems to be an argument for emotional exhaustion
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05:54.26MinceRi thought it had to do more with image processing / shape recognition work
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06:59.04gnarfaceKoratsuki84: hey just fyi the numbered CD/DVD sets are sorta there for the use case you're describing (a fully network-less install)
06:59.35gnarfaceKoratsuki84: nobody was intended to have to set up a private mirror just to run an offline installation
07:00.07gnarfaceKoratsuki84: don't let me stop you though if it's what you truly wanted
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12:17.24Koratsuki84@gnarface: thanks a lot buddy, I solved the problem already... I´ll try in a while to install #devuan[am on stretch now], and I will share my results here... Sorry about that, I´am from Cuba and it´s my first on #freenode, Iam trying to be kind with others and respect channel rules... :D
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12:18.48Koratsuki84first time...
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13:10.27Y_Plentynhi... is there a chance to have an openssh >7.2 soon? (or one with CVE-2016-1908 removed)
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13:17.47blapcan you build it?
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13:23.38Y_Plentynblap: I usually try to avoid keeping local patches...
13:24.03Y_Plentyn(on the other hand there is a point - the next update will probably fix the problem)
13:24.43Y_PlentynI will look into it next week ;S
13:25.10blapi could put it in my queue and get to it 2019 or so
13:25.43Y_Plentynmy q has a turnaround of 4 months for stuff like this
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13:58.29KatolaZhttp://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ratings&distro=devuan
13:58.39KatolaZ"Devuan is the best thing that could have happened to Debian."
13:58.41KatolaZ:D
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13:59.24blapnice
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14:00.36Y_PlentynKatolaZ: I am still not completely convinced by the security support...
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14:04.37MickyWY_Plentyn: If you want to tell: In which respect arent you convinced? Any main point?
14:04.50MickyWIm thinking about changing to devuan.
14:04.52Y_PlentynMickyW: it is quite slow
14:05.30MickyWY_Plentyn: Do you mean the reaction time until patches?
14:05.36Y_Plentynyep
14:05.43blinkdogDevuan picks up the security releases from Debian
14:05.44MickyWAh. Thank you.
14:06.40Y_Plentynblinkdog: which is usually ok - but in cases where devuan has its own patches that can be unwieldy
14:07.03MickyWAny specifics about it? How long does it take devuan to incorporate sec patches?
14:07.20blinkdogWell, except the ones Devuan doesn't need, e.g. patches for bugs in systemd et al
14:07.39MickyWNaturally.
14:07.43Y_Plentynmoreover it does not pick them up very quickly (probably it does for critcal problams, but for the not very high rated problems that seems to be true)
14:08.01blinkdogY_Plentyn: Is there a specific case you know?
14:08.11Y_Plentynjust named one above ;)
14:08.26Y_PlentynCVE-2016-1908
14:08.39blinkdogAhhh, sorry, I just came back to the chat room, so I might have missed it.
14:08.49MickyWY_Plentyn: Sorry. Just came in (about 4 minutes ago).
14:09.30Y_Plentynoh, to be clear - this is not something really bad about devuan, it just feels in need of improving ;)
14:10.12MickyWY_Plentyn: Just your opinion. I respect that, but curious about specifics.
14:14.42MickyWY_Plentyn: Oops. Did I say something wrong?
14:15.32Y_Plentynnope
14:15.42Y_Plentynsorry - I am a bit out of time for now
14:15.47MickyWGood. :-)
14:16.04Y_Plentynneed to leave in a low number of minutes
14:16.13MickyWNo prob.
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14:23.31MickyWHm. If I got it right, CVE-2016-1908 is still open even in debian - wheezy and jessy
14:24.19MickyWjessie
14:24.41gnarfaceone of you guys should try to build the ascii source package on jessie
14:26.43Y_PlentynMickyW I al talking about ascii anyways
14:27.31MickyWHm.
14:28.19gnarfacebut isn't the fix in ascii?
14:29.10MickyWI am not sure if i catch, what do you especially denote by "ascii". You mean the source code?
14:29.32MickyWOr the contrast to unicode?
14:29.43gnarfaceascii is devuan testing
14:29.50gnarfacethe name for it
14:30.05MickyWOops. Laugh. Thank you. I am not at the bleeding edge. :-)
14:30.16gnarfaceit's ok
14:30.20Y_Plentyn;)
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14:32.37MickyWSo. Some mumble. afk. Thank you.
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15:48.14golinuxgnarface: ascii is not devuan 'testing'.  asciii is the next stable release that parallels stretch (which is now Debian stable).
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15:56.25golinuxhi aitor
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19:18.26_abc_Hi. Trying to choose an image for jessie desktop-live for an old Sempron 2400+ amd machine. The normal i386 usb stick image refused to boot, the boot loader (grub) does not load at all. Should I try an amd64 image? Opinions?
19:20.02msiismwell, is it a 64 bit machine?
19:20.20msiismthis might help: https://www.debian.org/ports
19:20.33msiismsee the amd64 section
19:20.55_abc_Sempron is not 64 bit it's an old 32 bit amd
19:21.32msiismyou might still have to go with the amd64 image
19:21.33_abc_The grub on the i686 jessie devuan iso was not properly recognized, did not open the boot screen at all.
19:21.53_abc_I am going to try. From what I read, it may also be a chipset issue. This is a junk machine, 10 years old.
19:22.46msiismwell, maybe wait for someone more competent than me to answer your question
19:23.15_abc_Trying is better than procrastinating :) Downloading an image now
19:23.28msiismok, that's right
19:24.39_abc_The '1st' partition on a universal / hybrid bootable iso is HPFS/NTFS right?
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19:27.34msiismi have absolutely no idea. never done it.
19:32.29Hum_abc_: Do you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Performance_File_System ? I don't think it is right.
19:32.53DPAShouldn't it be iso9660 for partition 0 and fat32 for partition 2?
19:33.00_abc_It's called something else I forget. I'll tell you in a minute, writing now
19:34.09HumI find: ISO 9660, ISO 13490, Universal Disk Format, very old: High Sierra Format
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19:36.32_abc_Hum: fdisk -l with a usb stick with devuan written on it says 'Hidden HPFS/NTFS'
19:36.52_abc_HPFS is not the HPFS you are probably thinking of
19:37.04_abc_High Performance not Hewlett Packard
19:37.29_abc_Or some such confusion. 4 letters are too few, all acronyms are taken since antiquity
19:37.33golinuxmsiism: #devuan-wiki
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19:40.09DPAfdisk will just show the type stored in the partition table. The actual file system may differ.
19:40.23_abc_true
19:42.43_abc_http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1332351& hmm. Microchip's pic32 might be impacted
19:44.21blapi'm too stupid for grub.  i just dd the whole disk over, then gparted the destination to resize partitions
19:45.07_abc_Of course you dd but it has to boot 1st
19:47.30DPAI usually use CDs or PXE boot if a USB stick won't boot.
19:47.45_abc_The old machine I have in view is so old it probably has boot quirks in the chipset. Is there any difference in the grub code between i386 and amd64 devuan images? If not, this will also not work
19:49.28Hum_abc_: I guess the hybrid iso is still an iso, but it is modified: http://manpages.org/isohybrid https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb/isohybrid#Wait
19:49.46_abc_it is, the mounted image is iso9660
19:50.42_abc_Again, is fsmithred here? Or any original developer?
19:50.50HumHow about putting the hdd to an external usb case and use qemu on another system to install to the disk
19:51.02_abc_I really need to know if there is any difference between the grubs on the i386 and amd64 images.
19:51.10_abc_If there is no difference I am wasting my time now
19:51.32_abc_Hum: The machine I need to tinker with is not here, I get there tomorrow, limited time and resources at the location
19:52.16Humargh, not the best situation for a relaxed installation
19:52.25_abc_Indeed.
19:52.58_abc_Welp, we will see. Tomorrow.
19:53.34msiism_abc_: i'd try the i386 cd, if that's possible.
19:53.52_abc_msiism: Some day. Soon. Really.
20:04.40Hum_abc_: imho you need to use i386, imho there are differences in grub and if you expect boot quirks, prepare a CD not a stick, have a second CD/DVD drive and have a look at https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html
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20:05.33_abc_Hum: the machine has etch or such on it already.
20:05.49_abc_Or even jessie with systemd. I don't remember. Debian in any case.
20:06.08_abc_It got on there via cd. But my cd burner is really aged, I will try to fix this locally there.
20:12.29Hum_abc_: did you consider updating to jessie an change the apt sources?
20:15.35_abc_Hum: no, I would like a one stop update from media, because the location is not okay for working on stuff.
20:15.48Humit is enough to upgrade to wheezy and change to devuan
20:16.25Humone stop like one reboot only?
20:22.19aitorhi g4570n, i'll be here in an hour
20:22.36aitorand golinux :)
20:23.27golinuxaitor: what's that about.
20:26.03golinuxOK got it
20:32.49_abc_https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/28/linux_kernel_vuln/ has devuan been patched?
20:33.39_abc_Hum: is there a procedure listed somewhere? I had all hell's trouble with systemd on that machine, had to deinstall 2 different versions, will not upgrade on it before booting external media live on it
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20:36.23_abc_Hum: writing a cd and booting that is the way to go if I wing it.
20:36.37_abc_I have to kick my cd writer into operation somehow.
20:36.41_abc_Probably by force.
20:36.55_abc_So has that cve been addressed in devuan please?
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20:44.02fsr_abc_, did you check the debian page on that CVE?
20:44.21_abc_fsr: I read it yes.
20:44.46_abc_Is an upgrade from etch to devuan jessie via media destructive?
20:44.46fsrme too. It says it was fixed.
20:45.02_abc_fsr: so anything I see fixed in jessie should also be so in devuan?
20:45.32blinkdogfsr: In which section do the Debian security updates flow into Devuan jessie?
20:45.42fsrdevuan uses debian kernel
20:45.45fsretch to jessie?????
20:46.03_abc_well iirc I have etch on that thing. Could be wrong.
20:46.17fsrjessie-security
20:46.20_abc_It should be jessie but real jessie not devuan.
20:47.36fsrto go from etch to jessie, you have to go through lenny, squeeze and wheezy
20:47.40fsrI don't know where you can find a lenny repo
20:47.47fsror squeeze
20:48.03_abc_Oh it should be wheezy! Sorry brain fart there
20:48.23_abc_lenny and squeeze and etch live on in the debian archive servers
20:48.24fsrupgrade from debian wheezy to devuan jessie works well
20:48.36_abc_okay, and is it destructive?
20:48.40fsrbetter than from jessie to jessie
20:48.46_abc_nice!
20:48.50_abc_Is there a howto?
20:49.26fsrwhat do you mean?
20:49.26fsrdestructive in what way?
20:49.37_abc_Installed applications?
20:49.53_abc_I have a lot of stuff on one machine, not the one we're on about, need to also take it from wheezy to devuan
20:50.20_abc_Things like fpga devel tools, microchip devel tools, android devel tools, it's used as a build server etc
20:50.49_abc_If I hard upgrade there will be mayhem as I'll have to reinstall all that one by one, reinstate licenses, etc
20:51.19fsrif those are from debian repo then they should be upgraded
20:51.38fsrif you installed from somewhere else, then you're on your own. Each might be different.
20:51.48_abc_They are not. They are commercial stuff. Altera, Android Studio pinned version, Microchip MPLAB X and worse
20:52.08fsrno clue
20:52.17_abc_NetBeans. I don't remember everything that is on there. Will be fun. Okay, thanks. I asked...
20:52.38fsrif it's a production machine, you might be better off leaving it alone
20:52.43_abc_fsr: is there anything different in the grub and boot code between i386 and amd64 images for devuan jessie desktop?
20:52.43fsrdon't fix what isn't broken
20:53.08_abc_fsr: I have a machine which does not get to the grub screen with i386, will try the amd64 image tomorrow.
20:53.19_abc_Are the boot codes different?
20:54.02fsrthere are separate packages for grub i386 and amd64, but I don't know what the differences are
20:54.02fsrwhat are you thinking about doing?
20:54.11fsrwhat's a boot code?
20:54.34_abc_The hybrid iso dd'd to usb stick does not get to grub screen with the i386 iso
20:54.46_abc_Will try the amd64 one tomorrow, then try a cd burned one
20:55.00fsris it uefi hardware?
20:55.06fsror regular bios?
20:55.10_abc_No way. Regular.
20:55.18_abc_It's an old Sempron 2400+
20:55.20_abc_32 bit
20:55.32fsri386 should boot on 64-bit, but amd64 won't boot in i386
20:55.59_abc_When you say 'boot' you mean the boot code and grub on the .iso or the linux kernel(s) on it?
20:56.12_abc_As I said, I am not getting to the grub screen at all.
20:56.17fsrboth
20:56.39fsryou can run 32-bit system on 64-bit hardware
20:56.46fsrsomethingis wrong
20:56.46_abc_amd64 should boot on a 32 bit amd or not?
20:56.52fsrno
20:56.52_abc_Anyway, I will try it.
20:57.08_abc_The cdrom is in such bad state I have to replace it to even try afaik.
20:57.37fsrdoes the usb stick boot on any other machines?
20:57.42_abc_Of course.
20:57.50fsror do any other usb sticks boot on this machine?
20:57.56_abc_But the other machines where I tried it are i686
20:58.21_abc_I have not tried other sticks to boot on that particular machine, not having any handy. I will try tomorrow and see what happens.
20:58.52fsrwhat happens when you try to boot?
20:58.58fsrdoes it POST?
20:59.39_abc_It gets to the boot menu (via F11 pressed by me) and then stops with message 'Booting from USB device <whatever it's name is I forget>'
20:59.48_abc_And stays there. After POST obviously.
21:00.27_abc_Note this machine boots wheezy normally.
21:01.23_abc_The Sempron is one of those with 52 bit address extension disabled (says cpuinfo in wheezy) so I assume it is a cripped 64 bitter running at 32
21:01.36fsrmake sure you wait a few minutes (really) for it to do something
21:02.15_abc_minutes?! How many?
21:02.33fsrmaybe 5
21:02.46fsrI've had one usb stick on one machine take nearly that long
21:02.47_abc_The hdd light was off while this occurred. The chipset is suspect, I repeat, it went into systemd boot error syslog fill madness with jessie
21:03.15_abc_fsr: 5 minutes is about 5 times longer than it gets to get the vacuum tubes operating in a valved computer? What does it do for 5 minutes?
21:03.29fsrno clue
21:03.33_abc_Okay, I will try this too. This is mad.
21:03.37fsrslow usb stick
21:03.37_abc_Thanks for the tip!
21:03.44_abc_It's a usb 3.0 one!
21:03.54_abc_Of course the machine can't USB 3.0 but still
21:04.36aitori'm here :)
21:05.09fsrmost usb boots I do aren't any longer than hard drive boot
21:05.10fsrhdd light wont be affected by usb boot
21:05.51fsrhow did you boot jessie on it?
21:06.51fsrusb 3 stick should not be a problem. usb3 port might not boot.
21:07.41fsrthis is not the same machine that runs wheezy?
21:08.11_abc_wheezy and jessie went in via dvd or cd, probably dvd.
21:08.26_abc_I also tried the knoppix which was new/latest then, like 4 years ago?
21:08.29fsrso what's the plan?
21:08.37_abc_And that had systemd and was jessie based and failed as above
21:08.41fsradd a third system, or replace one?
21:09.01_abc_fsr: I'll try the i386 stick and wait 10 minutes as you said, if that fails, get the cd drive working and use a cd image
21:09.16fsrok, you want to do a fresh install?
21:09.21_abc_There is one system on that machine on a partition and one data partition
21:09.49_abc_I will first check the live one does what is needed, won't do driver surgery on a 10 yo machine, then install it instead of the present wheezy.
21:09.58_abc_Leaving the data partition untouched.
21:10.13*** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@50.120.67.195)
21:10.19_abc_I.e. there are 2 partitions + swap, one is system, one is data
21:10.30fsrwhy not upgrade it?
21:10.42greenjeanshttps://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/files/Openbox/  <--new Vuu-do
21:11.15fsrthey're working again?
21:11.36_abc_fsr: yes they fixed most of the breakage (twice afaik)
21:11.49_abc_fsr: link me to an upgrade procedure from wheezy to devuan?
21:12.15fsrsed -i 's/wheezy/jessie/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
21:12.31fsrapt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
21:12.34fsrhang on
21:13.35fsrhttps://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Upgrade-to-Devuan
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21:14.06fsrif that one is not good, google for 'upgrade wheezy to devuan' and you'll get several hits
21:14.27_abc_okay, thanks. Will read this in the morning when my headache subsides.
21:14.39_abc_has some sort of head flu
21:15.37_abc_Once and for all: an old amd32 Sempron is to be considered an i386 or an i686? For kernel and image selection purposes?
21:15.49fsryes
21:16.00_abc_yes, which one?
21:16.12fsri386 doesn't really exist. It's just a name for 32-bit
21:17.05fsryou can (should) use 686 kernel
21:17.05fsryou don't need 586 kernel
21:20.36_abc_ok
21:20.46fsr_abc_, use i386 iso
21:20.50fsryou will get the right kernel
21:21.03_abc_i386 surely exists. I actually threw out a i386 recently and there's a 486 somewhere. Slackware still supports that.
21:21.06_abc_fsr: okay
21:22.46fsrpretty good. My 386 died about 20 years ago
21:23.03_abc_Some of these things are embedded and all are headless.
21:23.27_abc_So they do live on. Industrial machines are full of 486s and such
21:23.56_abc_Especially here in Eastern Europe where we live behind the 'curve'
21:24.32fsryou mean where you keep using stuff that works perfectly well but isn't new and shiny
21:24.54fsrour trash dumps are bigger than yours
21:25.04_abc_:)
21:25.29_abc_I think it's where we get the stuff from your dumps and make it work another 20 years? Or is that SE Asia now.
21:25.38fsrcome to think of it, most of the computers I've owned were someone else's trash
21:25.54_abc_Iirc our army just got some almost new f15's... via Portugal and before that who knows where.
21:26.24_abc_fsr: Silicon has no smell :) (paraphrasing money has no...)
21:27.38_abc_https://www.rt.com/news/360966-romania-f16-portugal-jets/ got a few more meanwhile, same vintage. I am not army/etc I just watch the local currency catching some inflationary 'flu' from all this buying...
21:28.25_abc_(sorry -16 not -15s)
21:31.07_abc_(those were in .pt service in 1997 already, when they were updated?)
21:31.17_abc_Anyway off topic, just curious how far back this goes.
21:32.19fsr586 is oldest kernel debian has. Use it if your cpu can't handle the pae.
21:32.52fsryour sempron should be ok
21:33.01_abc_I think it can handle pae since it boots wheezy pae now. I will have to look. Thanks for the discussion time to add some facts to it. I'd just like to get to a grub screen heh. After that we'll move on
21:33.02fsryou know what socket it uses?
21:33.53_abc_I only looked at cpuinfo output on the running wheezy, it's a Sempron 2400+ running at 1666MHz with the 52 bit address extension disabled. Or so it said iirc. Tomorrow is another day fsr :) And it's already tomorrow now.
21:34.19fsroh, ok. sleep well and get better.
21:35.08*** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@5.146.73.225)
21:35.12aitorfsr: i pushed my bled example to gitlab:
21:35.13aitorhttps://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/live-sdk/tree/master
21:36.10fsraitor, I probably won't do anything with it until next week when I'm at home
21:36.54_abc_fsr: what is vuu-do for?
21:37.00aitorok, you said it :)
21:37.16aitoryou have the dependencies in the builddeps file: add "genisoimage"
21:37.35fsrwhy genisoimage?
21:37.35_abc_I mean this, what is it for? there's no readme. https://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/files/Openbox/
21:38.00fsrvuu-do = Veteran Unix User do...
21:38.04greenjeans_abc_ there's a readme for each of the individual iso's
21:38.22_abc_Also a Summary. Reading it now. Thanks.
21:38.24greenjeansclick on one of the sub menus
21:38.36greenjeanscool
21:38.37_abc_'s head is not helping much, should pull out and sleep a bit
21:39.13greenjeansJust a Devuan based project I built using Miyolinux and Refracta-tools
21:39.37aitori did some changes in the "iso" file, because it didn't work for me in jessie, and my version uses genisoimage
21:39.44_abc_Nice. Okay, really moving on now. Bye, thanks.
21:39.52_abc_bookmarked too
21:39.59aitoryou'll also need to install squashfs-tools from ascii
21:40.44fsrbrb
21:40.59aitorbye :)
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22:28.59FatherDamianhi
22:30.04FatherDamianI would like to know if the newly discovered Linux kernel flaw is going to be patched soon in Devuan?
22:30.21FatherDamianIt is mentioned on theregister.co.uk
22:30.54FatherDamianIt is a kernel flaw which can be exploited and Debian is one of the affected distros
22:31.06FatherDamianSo I suppose Devuan as well.
22:33.19greenjeansAnyone know if we are getting close at all to an ascii alpha release?
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