| 00:06.52 | Digit | trying to upgrade/migrate an old crunchbang (iirc: jessie(?)), but it's getting in a mess with blockages of various held n not wanting to install/uninstall past conflicts... wondering if i'm missing some more severe rebase command that can scrap the lot n install a base devuan, pushing any packages that complain, out of the way... or might that as well be a full wipe and reinstall? |
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| 00:26.19 | gnarface | Digit: with apt-get you can try "--fix-broken" or you could try aptitude which tries to think for you and suggest multiple solutions |
| 00:27.36 | gnarface | Digit: if you haven't actually corrupted the dependencies (always a possibility when mixing 3rd party repos) then usually you can repair it. sometimes it requires knowing what needs to be removed first, and what needs to be replaced after removal, and what needs to stay out. |
| 00:29.36 | Digit | yeah. no easy pass with --fix-broken. likely going to be a lot of manual noodling. i try poking at it some more with aptitude. but i think it's going to be a mess needing extensive manual intervention and many steps. |
| 00:30.34 | gnarface | one thing you could try is a clean minimal install to chroot, then you could compare the package list in there to what you have in the main install so you know what parts aren't part of the base system |
| 00:30.52 | Digit | excellent suggestion. thnx. |
| 00:31.11 | gnarface | no problem |
| 00:31.14 | Digit | then that makes it seem as easy as just a diff. |
| 00:31.24 | Digit | (i say before actually trying) |
| 00:31.31 | gnarface | it's more or less just that, yea |
| 00:32.21 | gnarface | then, in theory you can just uninstall everything but the bare minimum, and start again from there |
| 00:33.02 | gnarface | sometimes some packages will resist due to broken circular dependencies (that corrupted package tree risk i mentioned earlier) but usually you can still force them out |
| 00:33.18 | gnarface | i won't lie and say it's not possible to irrecoverably corrupt it though |
| 00:33.22 | gnarface | that's a real risk |
| 00:38.24 | gnarface | oh |
| 00:38.47 | gnarface | Digit: it's probably also worth mentioning that it's very possible a reinstall will be much faster |
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| 00:40.59 | gnarface | it kindof depends on how much time you've invested into the initial install and how hard it would be to recreate |
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| 00:44.32 | Digit | longer time might be preferable, to me causing some breakage during a complete reinstall, to that machine's windozes. if it were my machine, i'd take that risk (actually, if it were mine, windoze wud be gone), but since it's someone else's, they'd not appreciate me playing fast n loose with their not-backed-up windozes. but that's more an issue of my own confidence (& inexperience) around modern dual boots. |
| 00:52.57 | gnarface | if that's the case it might be worth the time to make a full disk image backup first |
| 00:53.07 | gnarface | (assuming you have some place to put it) |
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| 01:14.51 | Digit | i think i made it harder for myself being brash trying to force it to jump too many fences at once first. in hindsight, perhaps should have done incremental upgrade/upgrade/migrate/upgrade (or whatever it is/was/wouldaBeen). |
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| 01:22.32 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 01:49.00 | Digit | i realise i have only jumped to ascii (thank goodness i didnt actually go straight to ceres last night with that crazy idea before bed). probably should have first made sure it had been upgraded within that jessie or whatever it was on. oh well, it's all in good fun. i am finding /some/ progress getting past blockages, with /bold/ maneuvers. if i break everything, i break everything. it's fun to poke distros hard. :) |
| 01:51.40 | Digit | but maybe this is a bit brash, lol. just adding whatever apt complains about in one command to a severe "get rid of it then" command next... http://dpaste.com/310T52Q ... oh well, it got things moving. it keeps getting stumped by the adobe flash, the one piece of proprietary lingering on it. |
| 01:59.22 | blop | i leave ceres with folks who want to fixup ceres |
| 01:59.38 | blop | only so many hours in a day |
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| 02:04.31 | Xenguy | stabs flash ... |
| 02:05.29 | Xenguy | <borrowing from V for Vendetta> Die, die, why won't you die?!! < /> |
| 02:13.20 | gnarface | i would honestly just ditch flash too |
| 02:13.28 | gnarface | but there's only one file from it you really need |
| 02:13.32 | gnarface | it doesn't need to be packaged |
| 02:13.40 | gnarface | you can just copy it into your mozilla plugins directory |
| 02:14.04 | gnarface | if that's the only conflict left, that's an easy one to resolve |
| 02:15.15 | blop | surprised folks still need it |
| 02:17.32 | Digit | yeah reading about ceres, it's a lil daunting that there'd potentially be *systemd* seapage. surely a lil package block here n there, n it wont get in, n things will just have to update around it as and when they can. |
| 02:18.49 | gnarface | blop: leadership in large corporations tends to be the most hostile towards changes like this |
| 02:19.27 | blop | which make the term 'leader' a bit ironic |
| 02:20.33 | gnarface | yes well in the US we've spent decades marginalizing expertise and intelligence starting at a young age while going through abnormal lengths to protect the fragile egos of the stupid and the violent |
| 02:20.40 | gnarface | and this is what happens |
| 02:22.03 | gnarface | you get the vast majority of the world economy in the control of a few small-minded assholes who can handle absolutely anything life throws at them except being proven wrong by their own engineering staff |
| 02:22.26 | Digit | specialists n generalists both, marginalised. leading to "leadership" narrow apperture, "only as fast as your slowest ..." |
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| 02:23.32 | blop | prescribes some Dilbert therapy for gnarface |
| 02:26.00 | Digit | y'know, now that you mention ^, this conversation had just reminded me off, https://youtu.be/WJhf3qDdgsY |
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| 02:37.37 | Digit | thinks he's got it to need of systemrescuecd to pull back his ambitious upgrade from the brink, n might as well just install devuan fresh. ... like was suggested hours ago |
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| 02:39.46 | gnarface | the time wasn't wasted if you learned something |
| 02:40.02 | Digit | yeah, i think so. and had fun. |
| 02:40.22 | Digit | got more familiarised with the devuan universe, at least. :) |
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| 02:44.14 | gnarface | with enough bandwidth a fresh install should only take around half an hour |
| 02:44.30 | gnarface | well, assuming relatively minimal extra packages |
| 02:45.08 | gnarface | and assuming you already know how you're gonna answer all the setup questions |
| 02:45.24 | gnarface | i've dialed it down to about half an hour |
| 02:46.22 | gnarface | so that, plus any after-installation customization time estimates are usually what i use as my base figure for whether to decide to reinstall or repair |
| 02:48.02 | gnarface | of course, there are rules that i've learned to follow (some of them borderline superstitions) to vastly reduce the incident count |
| 02:48.41 | gnarface | never mix 3rd party software unless i package it myself |
| 02:48.50 | gnarface | never mix 3rd party repos unless it's for packages that have no dependencies |
| 02:48.57 | gnarface | never skip a release in upgrade |
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| 02:48.59 | gnarface | never downgrade |
| 02:49.10 | gnarface | never mix distros |
| 02:49.44 | gnarface | that and hang out in a support channel to hear what is related to the most problems/complaints/defects/random disasters and just avoid it |
| 02:50.05 | gnarface | (don't worry though, crunchbang was already on that list before you) |
| 02:50.25 | specing | half an hour for a binary distro install is awful |
| 02:51.19 | gnarface | eh, i don't think so. that's in expert mode and using our glorious 1990's united states internet infrastructure |
| 02:51.39 | specing | > with enough bandwidth |
| 02:51.57 | gnarface | what, ADSL should be enough for anyone :-p |
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| 02:53.20 | gnarface | you're right, it could be a lot quicker than half an hour if you have a gigabit connection, SSD storage, and a preseeding config file |
| 02:53.56 | gnarface | i wasn't citing "half an hour" as some sort of record time i was trying to impress anyone with |
| 02:54.32 | gnarface | more of a figure of encouragement that anyone could casually keep within, barring network/hardware failure or user error |
| 02:54.43 | gnarface | (or a dial-up modem) |
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| 03:15.48 | Digit | oh, looks like i managed to get things dislodged. this adventure crunchbang statler to devuan ascii is not over yet. |
| 03:17.55 | gnarface | i can't really help with specifics, as i don't know crunchbang, but i vaguely recall seeing this cause problems for other people too, prior to the existance of devuan |
| 03:18.09 | gnarface | crunchbang is a debian derivative like devuan |
| 03:18.25 | gnarface | unlike devuan they seem to do a bad job of warning people that it is NOT debian |
| 03:18.28 | Digit | is/was. yeah. |
| 03:18.58 | gnarface | so sometimes upgrades or other procedures that WOULD have or SHOULD have worked starting with an actual debian, *won't* with crunchbang |
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| 03:19.40 | Digit | devuan is more not debian (or more debian, since debian are the splitterds), than crunchbang ever was. twas mostly just a debian respin. |
| 03:20.02 | Digit | nice preconfiguration went the distance. |
| 03:20.16 | gnarface | sometimes the fix is a really simple and glaringly stupid but usually also poorly documented and known by nearly nobody |
| 03:21.06 | gnarface | because yea they're usually very similar but the problem comes down to some difference between the use of = or >= in the dependency headers |
| 03:21.20 | gnarface | something tiny that just cascades into a huge package tree tangle |
| 03:21.55 | gnarface | if i were to start over with my own distro i'd design the package dependency mechanisms to be simpler in an effort to hopefully be more resilient to this type of corruption |
| 03:22.57 | gnarface | i think at the time they were intended to be fast and nobody expected anyone to ever re-use the system outside of Debian |
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| 03:35.57 | Digit | heh, the adventure continues. bumpy road. after some progress (including getting rid of flash), i've got it to a state where two problem packages, if i try remove, it says it wants to remove bash and dash n such. well... there's some levels of package removal severity i'm unwilling to say yes to. n_n |
| 03:38.31 | gnarface | Digit: look at the versions, then compare them to packages.debian.org or ask "aptitude why [package name]" or uh... "apt-cache depends [package name]" i think |
| 03:39.25 | Digit | thnx for the tip. will do, after taking a break from it for a little while. |
| 03:39.31 | gnarface | Digit: i'm guessing the reason is they and/or some of their immediate dependencies are actually from the crunchbang repo and have some minor version mismatch with the debian/devuan ones |
| 03:40.00 | gnarface | Digit: in theory it should be possible to isolate those and just force the reinstall of the right version |
| 03:40.38 | gnarface | but it will require manual intervention |
| 03:40.57 | gnarface | and heh, yea if it's your shell itself, you can't just remove it |
| 03:41.17 | gnarface | well, you could migrate to another shell, then remove it, but that is a nightmare |
| 03:42.15 | gnarface | what might be better would be to try it from a live image, chrooted |
| 03:42.26 | gnarface | so that way if you hose it you still have a working environment |
| 03:47.42 | Xenguy | Mix repos, and beware |
| 03:48.00 | Xenguy | It's an invitation for chaos |
| 03:51.26 | Digit | sitrep: nope yep, killed it beyond my will to fix. fresh devuan's the new plan. i'll get around to that later. n_n |
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| 05:22.20 | golinux | Anybody here a kicking? |
| 05:22.48 | NewGnuGuy | yo |
| 05:22.49 | blop | moo |
| 05:23.12 | Digit | i suppose i'm a human, not a kicking. |
| 05:23.12 | golinux | I am having trouble upgrading my jessie. |
| 05:23.47 | NewGnuGuy | Have you tried turning it off and on again? :-P |
| 05:24.45 | golinux | No. But I rebooted this morning trying to troubleshoot my connection - it was a network outage for several hours |
| 05:25.12 | golinux | /usr/bin/g++-4.9': Device or resource busy |
| 05:25.19 | golinux | /usr/bin/gcc-4.9': Device or resource busy |
| 05:25.30 | golinux | /usr/bin/cpp-4.9': Device or resource busy |
| 05:26.01 | golinux | Heck, I don't even know what those packages are related to. |
| 05:26.42 | NewGnuGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:27.00 | golinux | Would that be part of git? |
| 05:27.36 | golinux | I have never complied a pkg on this system |
| 05:28.52 | golinux | Or really used git. KatolaZ gave me a git lesson in hopes that I would take to it. |
| 05:29.34 | golinux | So how do I unbusy what ever is the problem? |
| 05:29.40 | NewGnuGuy | I'm moderate to advanced when it comes to git. |
| 05:30.04 | golinux | TBH, I haven't even looked at it since that lesson. |
| 05:30.31 | golinux | does git install nginx? |
| 05:30.51 | NewGnuGuy | no |
| 05:30.58 | golinux | Because it keeps starting and I have to kill it. |
| 05:31.06 | golinux | It's a pain |
| 05:31.44 | golinux | I though it was part of git. I need to run an rdepends. Give me a sec |
| 05:32.08 | golinux | I want to get rid of this stuff I'm probably never going to use |
| 05:32.37 | golinux | But I can't because of those busy packages. |
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| 05:34.48 | golinux | No idea what I need to stop? |
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| 05:35.41 | NewGnuGuy | a paste of "ps -e" might help |
| 05:36.08 | golinux | OK |
| 05:37.07 | golinux | That's a very long list. |
| 05:38.00 | NewGnuGuy | "ps -e | tail" perhaps |
| 05:40.17 | NewGnuGuy | "ps -e | tail -n 20" |
| 05:40.17 | golinux | Nothing unusual afaics |
| 05:41.06 | NewGnuGuy | Where are you in the upgrade? What steps have you done so far? |
| 05:41.40 | golinux | No I'm out of it and started searching. |
| 05:43.50 | golinux | I'm just upgrading jesse to jessie not ascii. |
| 05:44.14 | golinux | I suppose it will eventually resolve. |
| 05:44.26 | NewGnuGuy | Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie? |
| 05:45.13 | golinux | No. Just a normal update/upgrade. |
| 05:45.38 | NewGnuGuy | oh, ok |
| 05:46.24 | golinux | Oh wait . . . I remembered something. |
| 05:46.29 | NewGnuGuy | ! |
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| 05:47.17 | golinux | Just after jessie got installed I was trying to compile avidemux. |
| 05:47.43 | golinux | They've managed to ruin it with Qt. |
| 05:48.15 | golinux | Even when it kind of worked it still sucked. |
| 05:48.32 | NewGnuGuy | That would explain why you have compilers running |
| 05:48.35 | golinux | So I have compiled on this computer. |
| 05:49.00 | golinux | That was over two years ago! |
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| 05:49.20 | NewGnuGuy | Wait, what? |
| 05:49.34 | NewGnuGuy | O_o |
| 05:50.01 | golinux | That was that fall of 2015 |
| 05:50.50 | golinux | A lot of mucjing around for zero benefit. |
| 05:50.55 | golinux | mucking |
| 05:51.08 | golinux | Nothing current. |
| 05:53.18 | specing | Ruined with Qt? What were they using before? |
| 05:55.09 | golinux | GTK2 was the last nice interface. |
| 05:55.39 | golinux | I actually have the wheezy version running on jessie. |
| 05:55.51 | golinux | Not hopeful for ascii |
| 05:57.03 | golinux | Anyway. I'm giving up on this for tonight. See you tomorrow NewGnuGuy |
| 05:57.47 | NewGnuGuy | ttyl |
| 05:58.23 | adhoc | evenen all |
| 05:58.50 | adhoc | is there are recommended way of setting up the dvd iso for bootable usb sticks ? |
| 06:00.53 | NewGnuGuy | adhoc: I use the Disk Image Writer feature in the gnome-disk-utility package |
| 06:03.21 | NewGnuGuy | adhoc: What is your host OS for writing the iso to the usb stick? |
| 06:04.53 | NewGnuGuy | If you're starting from a Windows system, there's no better tool than Rufus (https://rufus.akeo.ie/) |
| 06:05.18 | adhoc | macos |
| 06:06.15 | adhoc | or debian wheezy |
| 06:06.58 | adhoc | been using UNetbootin, but that isn't working |
| 06:07.16 | NewGnuGuy | If you're not averse to Electron-based applications, Etcher is a good choice. https://etcher.io/ |
| 06:08.04 | adhoc | why woud one be averse to eletron apps? |
| 06:08.50 | adhoc | the box i am reinstalling is debian jessie |
| 06:09.04 | adhoc | so i could use that too |
| 06:09.23 | adhoc | i have a stack of machines to disk wipe and reinstall |
| 06:11.27 | NewGnuGuy | Some don't like the use of Javascript, HTML, and CSS rather than a compiled language like C/C++ to create desktop applications. |
| 06:11.50 | adhoc | oh right. it is an app, so long it does what it says on the tin. |
| 06:13.51 | adhoc | NewGnuGuy: thanks, here goes =) |
| 06:21.20 | adhoc | shiny! booted and now installing |
| 06:24.42 | NewGnuGuy | Nice! |
| 06:32.57 | adhoc | impatiently waits for all the packages to be installed =) |
| 06:38.35 | adhoc | booted and up and running |
| 06:38.40 | adhoc | thanks again NewGnuGuy |
| 06:38.54 | adhoc | now where is that spare switch ... |
| 06:38.58 | NewGnuGuy | np |
| 06:39.04 | adhoc | \o/ |
| 06:39.27 | NewGnuGuy | enjoy :) |
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| 07:49.11 | gnarface | adhoc, NewGnuGuy; just fyi macos X has "dd" too |
| 07:49.44 | gnarface | golinux: that's the error i'd expect from gcc if it had run out of space on the partition holding the build directory |
| 07:50.47 | gnarface | golinux: (since compilation of large projects are often made by amalgamating many smaller binaries together, the build directory can take up to thousands of times more space than the final product) |
| 07:53.04 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:26.05 | adhoc | gnarface: i could not get the dd option to produce a bootable thumbdrive. |
| 11:26.13 | adhoc | uncertain why. |
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| 11:29.54 | chillfan | How did you use dd? |
| 11:30.29 | chillfan | The best way if things goes wrong is probably: "dd if=filename.iso of=/dev/sdX bs=1M; sync" |
| 11:33.41 | chillfan | That should fix most of the cases |
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| 12:51.25 | JotaMG | I think Devuan is making the same mistakes other distro's do, and that is very unfortunate. |
| 12:51.27 | JotaMG | One more time I ask here why Devuan has a contact e-mail, freedom@devuan.org, if no one cares to answer ?? |
| 12:51.28 | JotaMG | It is disgusting, and please, don't give me all the usual excuses others do. |
| 12:51.30 | JotaMG | Better to remove that contact email from your home page. |
| 12:54.29 | blop | devuan arm ascii: Could NOT find OpenSceneGraph: Found unsuitable version "3.2.3", but required is at least "3.3.4" |
| 12:55.04 | blop | so, build newer one? |
| 12:55.52 | blop | sid has 3.4 |
| 12:56.52 | blop | git://anonscm.debian.org/pkg-osg/openscenegraph-3.4.git |
| 13:03.57 | JotaMG | I've volunteered to take care of maintaining some Devuan packages, including gvfs, but I cannot contact the people in charge, so I guess nobody from Devuan seems interested in my help, right ?? |
| 13:06.40 | gnarface | JotaMG: did you look at git.devuan.org? |
| 13:07.00 | JotaMG | no |
| 13:13.05 | JotaMG | I don't see there any info that will help with what I need to do, the steps involved, etc.? |
| 13:13.07 | JotaMG | Ok, maybe you are just looking for rocket scientists and in that case I'm out, my experience is pretty basic. |
| 13:14.09 | gnarface | JotaMG: i'm suggesting you try to register to get noticed. i have no idea what the problem with the email is. |
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| 13:15.15 | JotaMG | ok, I will register, and then?? |
| 13:15.16 | JotaMG | If I don't get guidance, I will not go very far... |
| 13:16.21 | gnarface | stay connected to this channel |
| 13:16.28 | gnarface | i think also join #devuan-dev |
| 13:16.38 | JotaMG | months ago I've already told here about the emails problem... |
| 13:16.40 | JotaMG | seems nobody cared? |
| 13:17.28 | gnarface | i have no idea. i just assume it's choked with a backlog of spam. the people you want to talk to do come around here but you are gonna need to show some patience to cross paths with them. |
| 13:18.38 | JotaMG | well, my opinion is that you should make things easier for people willing to help !! |
| 13:18.56 | blop | ever read the Xanth books JotaMG ? |
| 13:19.12 | JotaMG | no |
| 13:20.24 | blop | Mad Magician Humphrey had a system to let-in people worth his time |
| 13:21.22 | blop | i seem to be unable to find the original tar.gz here that i need to dpkg-buildpackage an updated openscenegraph https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-osg/openscenegraph-3.4.git/commit/?h=pristine-tar&id=59d4870998c4fe092d5c7c273cb58e18121442cc |
| 13:21.38 | blop | do you know where to get that package JotaMG ? |
| 13:22.23 | blop | or the .tar.gz rather |
| 13:23.03 | gnarface | JotaMG: there's also a mailing list |
| 13:26.12 | blop | alright i don't really need a .deb |
| 13:30.47 | JotaMG | let me explain, I hate to engage with things that after I discover I'm unable to do well. |
| 13:30.49 | JotaMG | So is good to have an idea in advance what is needed for that tasks, what to expect, etc., so I can judge if I can keep up, since my free time is limited. |
| 13:30.50 | JotaMG | So, if Devuan cannot make that necessary "learning process" the easier as possible, unfortunately I will have to pass! |
| 13:31.39 | fsmithred | JotaMG, there is a developers manual in the works. That should help, once it's done. |
| 13:32.06 | JotaMG | ok that's great! |
| 13:32.39 | fsmithred | check dng mailing list. It's been very active lately, with several new people taking up packages. |
| 13:33.27 | JotaMG | what is "dng mailing list" ? |
| 13:34.11 | fsmithred | Debian's Not Gnome - it evolved into a devuan mailing list. |
| 13:34.54 | FatPhil | I think I'm going stupid. Can't partition my HD in the installer. It offers me FAT16, Fat32, swap, physocal volume for encryption, physical volume for RAID, physical volume for LVM, and do not use this partition. Where's "ext4 file system"? |
| 13:35.01 | fsmithred | https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng |
| 13:35.35 | fsmithred | FatPhil, it should be at the top of that list. Which iso are you using? |
| 13:36.06 | FatPhil | fsmithred: some random USB install stick I downloaded yonks ago |
| 13:36.43 | fsmithred | well, ascii beta isos were released last week. Maybe you'd like to use one of those. Sounds like you got a jessie beta. |
| 13:37.04 | FatPhil | I want to jessie, I'm a stable kind of guy |
| 13:37.34 | fsmithred | ok, so get a jessie stable iso. What you report sounds like a problem that was in one of the betas. |
| 13:38.01 | FatPhil | weird, as I did install a sytem using it in the past. But I'll grab a newer one. |
| 13:38.23 | FatPhil | or.... I can just fdisk from console 2 |
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| 13:40.45 | fsmithred | maybe |
| 13:40.48 | fsmithred | it's worth a try |
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| 13:55.26 | FatPhil | pah! just as easy to use the latest installer - it's better than the old one! |
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| 14:03.21 | FatPhil | there's a whole bunch of packages in the default install that I really wish weren't there. I guess they're inherited from debian. |
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| 14:11.28 | fsmithred | FatPhil, if you don't want all the extra stuff, just install standard system and add what you want afterward. |
| 14:12.16 | FatPhil | I do the advanced install, as that gives me the most control, but there's still so much junk in it. |
| 14:13.25 | FatPhil | why does it ask me if I want popcon, and then when I say no, it installs popcon, then removes popcon? |
| 14:15.01 | fsmithred | I don't know |
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| 17:11.37 | karl79 | Hey guys, I've got this really weird bug that I'm having trouble identifying, while playing emulator games my system will suddenly out of nowhere just start to lag like hell. Its an old netbook, I just use it to play videos & old emulator games like nintendo 64, sega, gameboy etc. I thought it was something to do with the I/O scheduler but it would appear I may be wrong about that. I have tried every I/O scheduler I have |
| 17:11.37 | karl79 | , cfq, and yet it still does this... I've tried kernel 4.9, 4.12, 4.13, 4.14, 4.15... |
| 17:12.00 | karl79 | I think it might be something to do with the i915 driver but I don't know.... |
| 17:14.37 | karl79 | I disabled the I/O schedulers completely by adding scsi_mod.use_blk_mq=1 on kernel 4.9, does anyone know how I can disable the I/O schedulers with the proper command & not the MQ I/O scheduler kernel parameter? |
| 17:24.33 | *** join/#devuan ejr (~ejr2@80-108-134-13.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 17:27.52 | karl79 | Can somebody PLEASE tell me how to disable I/O schedulers???? I cannot find answers on google... |
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| 17:28.57 | blinkdog | karl79: I found this, https://miketabor.com/improve-linux-vm-disable-io-performance-io-scheduler/ |
| 17:31.48 | karl79 | I've arleady got that page open it doesn't give me the answer i want |
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| 17:32.00 | karl79 | I want noop, deadline, cfq, all of them disabled |
| 17:32.35 | karl79 | I managed to disable the I/O schedulers on kernel 4.9 but not the right way, just a way that will only stop them on 4.9... |
| 17:32.59 | karl79 | I keep getting this massive lag on my netbook while playing emulator games.... when I disable the I/O schedulers completely, I no longer get this lag |
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| 17:53.23 | buZz | why the fuck is someone spamming #devuan |
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| 17:53.25 | buZz | i mean |
| 17:53.33 | buZz | 'advertizing' #devuan by spamming channels |
| 17:53.38 | buZz | would you please stop that |
| 17:54.40 | chillfan | Hm where are they spamming |
| 17:55.01 | buZz | https://hastebin.com/tifaqudusu.vbs |
| 17:55.13 | buZz | oh where, #bitcoin in this case |
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| 17:55.53 | chillfan | If they think it's helpful it's not, but chances are we get blamed for a lot of the trolling of individuals with no control |
| 17:56.19 | *** join/#devuan iodev (~iodev@unaffiliated/iodev) |
| 17:56.23 | buZz | i'm apologizing on behalf of #devuan |
| 17:56.34 | iodev | okay, who here is the one who spammed #debian? |
| 17:56.45 | buZz | iodev: same kid as https://hastebin.com/tifaqudusu.vbs i bet |
| 17:56.53 | *** part/#devuan inhetep (inhetep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/inhetep) |
| 17:57.02 | iodev | that is malware, I'm not opening that |
| 17:57.03 | buZz | eyes inhetep |
| 17:57.08 | *** join/#devuan inhetep (inhetep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/inhetep) |
| 17:57.09 | chillfan | No need to apolagize imo, just let people know it's discouraged by us |
| 17:57.14 | *** join/#devuan metastable (metastable@unaffiliated/metastable) |
| 17:57.18 | iodev | absolutely, I'm sure of that |
| 17:57.20 | buZz | chillfan: thats what i ment ;) |
| 17:57.27 | metastable | Having your bots spam channels is not doing you any favors. |
| 17:57.30 | *** part/#devuan metastable (metastable@unaffiliated/metastable) |
| 17:58.13 | chillfan | That's a lot of spam though |
| 18:00.05 | iodev | it's just silly, I for one am against this type of "publicity", it's just the same as joining ##windows and spamming "Linux! Linux!" and it won't do anything |
| 18:01.04 | blinkdog | I don't think anyone involved with Devuan in an official capacity would endorse IRC spamming. |
| 18:01.15 | dax | is it the same as assuming that a channel mentioned in spam messages is responsible for the spam, then joining it and complaining |
| 18:01.39 | blinkdog | I'll bring it up at the developer meeting, but likely it's just a troll looking to create backlash upon Devuan. |
| 18:01.40 | dax | because considering all the impersonation spam on IRC over the past year, there's a very good chance that doing that is just giving the spammer what he wants |
| 18:01.41 | iodev | dax, no, no, I just wanted to see if anyone "claimed credit" |
| 18:01.50 | iodev | I know devuan is NOT to be blamed! |
| 18:02.02 | buZz | probably just someone that hates #devuan or one of the people in it |
| 18:02.27 | buZz | iodev: https://hastebin.com/raw/tifaqudusu <- raw txt of that paste earlier |
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| 18:02.39 | buZz | probably the exact same spam as hit #debian |
| 18:02.53 | iodev | buZz, now he hit windows |
| 18:03.00 | buZz | right |
| 18:03.02 | iodev | that means he is here, I wanted to whois him! |
| 18:04.12 | iodev | * Nenna (~Nenna@host55-71-dynamic.245-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined |
| 18:04.12 | iodev | * Somers (~Somers@14.red-81-42-244.staticip.rima-tde.net) has joined |
| 18:04.12 | iodev | * Torske (~Torske@85.143.21.117) has joined |
| 18:04.22 | iodev | hmm, looks like he has got a botnet |
| 18:04.30 | buZz | weird, those dont fully overlap |
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| 18:04.59 | iodev | telecomitalia is an ISP, rima-tde.net is an ISP too and let's search for that ip |
| 18:05.00 | *** join/#devuan cluelessperson (~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson) |
| 18:05.16 | cluelessperson | Someone is spamming this channel |
| 18:05.18 | buZz | yeah consumer connections, the base of any botnet |
| 18:05.22 | buZz | cluelessperson: we're aware |
| 18:05.52 | cluelessperson | buZz: but why |
| 18:05.53 | buZz | its not something related to channel |
| 18:05.53 | iodev | AS8941 N. P. Ogarev's Mordovian State University |
| 18:05.54 | cluelessperson | insane |
| 18:05.59 | buZz | cluelessperson: i agree |
| 18:06.02 | iodev | no university rents out VPS-es! |
| 18:06.16 | *** part/#devuan cluelessperson (~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson) |
| 18:06.17 | buZz | iodev: they do run software from untrusted sources |
| 18:06.26 | buZz | like most consumers aswell |
| 18:06.27 | iodev | buZz, yes, yes, he infected them |
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| 18:09.13 | buZz | flood #2 in #bitcoin |
| 18:09.33 | onekk | hi to all, after some tweaking I've update and upgraded my devuan ascii installation, now I'm facing a problem, or better a question? |
| 18:09.48 | buZz | better a question, yes |
| 18:09.51 | onekk | I have consolekit and elogind installed, is consolekit needed |
| 18:09.54 | onekk | ? |
| 18:10.27 | buZz | i have both those installed |
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| 18:10.46 | buZz | no clue if they are needed, i didnt install them myself, they were pulled in by dependancies |
| 18:12.13 | onekk | Ah OK, but I've had problem in shutting down or halting with my openbox installation, so I have run pam-auth-update and deselected consolekit |
| 18:12.34 | onekk | plus I have upgraded the elogind policykit backends, |
| 18:12.46 | fsmithred | onekk, what desktop, what login manager, and which libpolkit packages are installed? |
| 18:13.17 | onekk | now the only reference of consolekit is consolekit itself checked with 'sudo dpkg -l |grep console' |
| 18:13.21 | fsmithred | what are you trying to use for shutdown in openbox? |
| 18:13.29 | onekk | Hi fsmithred |
| 18:13.33 | fsmithred | hi |
| 18:13.47 | fsmithred | dpkg -l | grep libpolkit |
| 18:13.49 | *** part/#devuan grubles (~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles) |
| 18:15.26 | buZz | onekk: 'sudo poweroff' doesnt power off? |
| 18:16.16 | onekk | login manager lightdm, for the output of the command, let me see the command do post it on the place, i have to note it somewhere |
| 18:17.11 | fsmithred | dpkg -l | grep libpolkit |
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| 18:18.01 | onekk | Yes fsmithred but to post a file where you can read it, a little hole in my memory, i have noted the commands, but i can't find where. |
| 18:18.15 | buZz | get pen & paper then? :D |
| 18:18.20 | fsmithred | you can just tell me what you see |
| 18:18.52 | fsmithred | libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd or libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind? You want the latter. |
| 18:19.47 | onekk | libpolkit-agent-1-0:amd64 + libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind:amd64 + libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind:amd64 all with 0.105-18+devuan2.4 version |
| 18:20.05 | fsmithred | ok, that looks right |
| 18:20.11 | fsmithred | is policykit-1 installed? |
| 18:20.37 | fsmithred | and how do you expect to shutdown in openbox? It only gives you log out. |
| 18:21.04 | fsmithred | or are you trying to do it from lightdm login screen? |
| 18:21.15 | onekk | yes with the same version, Now the system is working, but i wonder if consolekit is needed anymore? |
| 18:21.34 | fsmithred | shouldn't be needed, but won't hurt if it's there |
| 18:21.53 | fsmithred | also, the pam-auth-update isn't really needed. They can all be checked. |
| 18:21.54 | onekk | the lightdm login screen is not working, the openbox is working now after following some istruction foound on forum |
| 18:22.06 | fsmithred | how? |
| 18:22.36 | fsmithred | lxpanel? tint? somthing else? |
| 18:23.05 | fsmithred | you edited menu.xml? |
| 18:23.20 | onekk | for the logout i use the "stock" MiYolinux dialog "probably from bunsenlabs |
| 18:23.29 | fsmithred | ok |
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| 18:24.09 | fsmithred | reboot or 'init 1' after you make any changes with this stuff |
| 18:25.02 | onekk | The "problem" that it is not a problem but a "question" is if the consolekit is needed to slim down the packages count and to "clean" a little, but it is not a real "problem" |
| 18:26.06 | onekk | Maybe there is some need of some documentation somewhere, but I know that devuan ascii is still a WIP |
| 18:26.07 | *** join/#devuan Emil (emil@emil.fi) |
| 18:26.37 | onekk | too much "some" in my "post" :-D |
| 18:27.04 | fsmithred | well, whatever we tell you about consolekit/policykit/elogind today might be different next week. |
| 18:27.32 | onekk | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:27.43 | buZz | its cool, no worries |
| 18:27.53 | buZz | onekk: i have a 'idea book' where i note down everything |
| 18:28.04 | buZz | works a treat, doesnt require cloud services or electricity |
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| 18:28.15 | buZz | every ~2 years i buy a new one |
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| 18:28.46 | onekk | same problem with file on the computer, if you didn't remeber the proper words the "grep" is not functional, the book is a good alternative |
| 18:29.49 | buZz | sure, but a '2 year book' doesnt get lost :) at least, to me |
| 18:29.50 | onekk | fsmithred, Ah OK, thnaks you for your help, You are very helpful, I owe you at least a beer, if ever we meet "in person" |
| 18:30.54 | onekk | buZz, with two children (9 an 10) and a wife almost everything not chained down is at risk of lost. |
| 18:31.18 | buZz | onekk: hehe |
| 18:31.40 | buZz | rub it in cooties |
| 18:31.44 | onekk | fsmithred, and obviously if you drink beer, maybe a glass of wine as I'm Italian is better suited |
| 18:32.13 | fsmithred | I would love to come visit and drink some wine with you if you're in Italy |
| 18:32.30 | fsmithred | when I win the lottery |
| 18:32.59 | onekk | So you are in another continent? |
| 18:33.10 | fsmithred | yeah, northeast US |
| 18:34.14 | onekk | Ah Ok, quite distant, I'm in north west of Italy (the emisphere is the same) |
| 18:34.26 | fsmithred | lol |
| 18:34.34 | fsmithred | yeah, it's winter |
| 18:34.51 | fsmithred | but it's 17C and I have the windows open. Very unusual for February. |
| 18:35.30 | onekk | No here it 4C and windows are closed. |
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| 18:35.47 | onekk | Hi to all, supper is ready and wife is calling |
| 18:35.54 | fsmithred | bye |
| 18:36.02 | onekk | bye fsmithred and buZz |
| 18:37.51 | buZz | byeee |
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| 19:12.53 | karl79 | Can somebody please help me identify this bug I'm encountering? I don't know what to do anymore... |
| 19:13.08 | karl79 | i just want my stupid netbook to play games -.- |
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| 19:22.39 | KatolaZ | karl79: which bug? |
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| 19:25.20 | karl79 | which bug? lo |
| 19:25.21 | karl79 | lol |
| 19:25.28 | karl79 | I don't know which bug... that's the problem. |
| 19:25.34 | KatolaZ | -_- |
| 19:25.52 | karl79 | I just don't know what it is doing this :/ sorry. i'll try to explain to you what its doing to the best of my abilities |
| 19:26.23 | karl79 | whenever I'm playing my emulator games, after 5 to even up to 30 minutes it starts to lag really really bad |
| 19:26.48 | karl79 | Be it on MGBA(gameboy), nintendo 64(mupen64plus), or snes9x or anything else |
| 19:27.01 | karl79 | I THINK it has something to do with the IO schedulers but I just don't know :/ |
| 19:27.19 | buZz | no IO scheduler would do that |
| 19:27.27 | KatolaZ | karl79: improbable |
| 19:27.31 | buZz | its most probably inefficient cooling |
| 19:27.36 | KatolaZ | namely |
| 19:27.42 | karl79 | um no definitely not about cooling |
| 19:27.48 | KatolaZ | it's just that your CPU get throttled |
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| 19:27.51 | buZz | totally sounds like it |
| 19:27.53 | karl79 | no |
| 19:27.57 | karl79 | its not the CPU being throttled! |
| 19:27.57 | buZz | yeah it does |
| 19:28.03 | KatolaZ | karl79: acpi -V |
| 19:28.05 | karl79 | that's not what's causing this... |
| 19:28.07 | KatolaZ | when it happens |
| 19:28.19 | karl79 | acpi command not found |
| 19:28.45 | karl79 | its not cooling I know that for sure |
| 19:28.54 | KatolaZ | apt-get install acpi |
| 19:28.55 | karl79 | these games are very lightweight too |
| 19:29.05 | buZz | emulation isnt lightweight |
| 19:29.06 | KatolaZ | karl79: no matter how "light" the game is |
| 19:29.08 | buZz | its cpu heavy |
| 19:29.12 | KatolaZ | emulation is heavy on the CPU |
| 19:29.18 | KatolaZ | full of active waits |
| 19:29.19 | karl79 | gameboy emulation isn't heavy... |
| 19:29.28 | buZz | -GBA- isnt GB |
| 19:29.29 | KatolaZ | to emulate the real speed of the thing you are emulating |
| 19:29.33 | karl79 | I only have this problem on this netbook |
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| 19:29.39 | buZz | to emulate a modern ARM (like GBA) is quite heavy |
| 19:29.39 | KatolaZ | again karl79 |
| 19:29.40 | karl79 | well I'm playing a GB game so... |
| 19:29.43 | KatolaZ | you asked a question |
| 19:29.45 | buZz | what cpu is in that netbook? |
| 19:29.47 | KatolaZ | I proposed an answer :) |
| 19:29.49 | buZz | GB is a Z80 |
| 19:29.53 | buZz | GBA is a ARM7TDMI |
| 19:29.54 | karl79 | its an intel N270 atom |
| 19:29.58 | buZz | wow |
| 19:29.59 | KatolaZ | when it happens, just |
| 19:30.01 | KatolaZ | acpi -V |
| 19:30.03 | karl79 | it used to work just fine |
| 19:30.08 | KatolaZ | and look at the temperature of your CPU |
| 19:30.15 | buZz | thats a -10- year old CPU |
| 19:30.15 | buZz | :D |
| 19:30.19 | buZz | the N270 |
| 19:30.26 | karl79 | So?? |
| 19:30.34 | KatolaZ | the age does not matter |
| 19:30.35 | buZz | just impressive :) |
| 19:30.38 | karl79 | the game emulators are from consoles from the 90s... |
| 19:30.49 | KatolaZ | karl79: game emulators work with active waits |
| 19:30.52 | karl79 | i used to be able to play these games just fine |
| 19:30.54 | KatolaZ | (most of them) |
| 19:31.02 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 19:31.12 | KatolaZ | my advice is: acpi -V |
| 19:31.16 | KatolaZ | stat from there |
| 19:31.19 | karl79 | I did that |
| 19:31.25 | KatolaZ | if the CPU is cool, then look for ghosts elsewhere |
| 19:31.26 | karl79 | one sec ill psot it to pastebin |
| 19:31.32 | karl79 | ghosts? |
| 19:31.38 | KatolaZ | (bugs) |
| 19:32.00 | karl79 | how could it be the CPU if i can exit the game and then re-open it and its fine? |
| 19:32.30 | karl79 | https://pastebin.com/15rcnwL0 |
| 19:33.07 | buZz | 74 :O |
| 19:33.16 | buZz | is this during running the emulator? |
| 19:33.20 | karl79 | yes |
| 19:33.31 | buZz | imho thats very hot |
| 19:33.38 | buZz | did you clean the fans recently? |
| 19:33.38 | KatolaZ | it's quite hot |
| 19:33.38 | karl79 | it gets as high as 75 degrees |
| 19:33.44 | KatolaZ | not "very" |
| 19:33.45 | karl79 | yea its sitting on my bed right now |
| 19:33.53 | KatolaZ | bbl |
| 19:33.54 | KatolaZ | o/ |
| 19:33.55 | buZz | it wont ventilate on your bed |
| 19:33.58 | karl79 | its not the temp tho,i can exit it and re-open it |
| 19:34.06 | buZz | can you try it on a desk? :) |
| 19:34.08 | karl79 | yes |
| 19:34.11 | karl79 | and it still happens |
| 19:34.26 | buZz | still 75C? |
| 19:34.38 | karl79 | when I go to my doctors appts i sit it on this little desk and it still screws up |
| 19:34.47 | karl79 | no, it usually goes as high as 40 or 50 C |
| 19:35.02 | karl79 | its an intel ATOM netbook, they just heat up... that's how its always been |
| 19:35.31 | karl79 | i used to be able to play games just fine but now im not |
| 19:35.43 | karl79 | this thing is really clean so idk why it would do that... it doesnt even have a fan in it either. |
| 19:36.00 | buZz | and if you reinstall the software you ahd back then? |
| 19:36.01 | karl79 | I can re-open the game after it goes all laggy and then its fine again |
| 19:36.02 | buZz | had* |
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| 19:36.19 | karl79 | re-install the software i had back then???? how am i supposed to do that? |
| 19:36.33 | karl79 | ive tried every linux distro for i686 and theres no difference |
| 19:36.44 | karl79 | i dont know why its doing this, I can't seem to figure it out |
| 19:36.46 | buZz | you didnt make backups? |
| 19:36.49 | karl79 | I've been trying for over a month now.. |
| 19:37.03 | karl79 | Didn't make backups??? Um no.. why would I of needed to? It used to work just fine... |
| 19:38.15 | fsmithred | when it's working fine is a good time to make a backup |
| 19:38.29 | karl79 | well I didn't make a backup |
| 19:38.47 | karl79 | and using a backup would just be avoiding the bug & not really solving it head-on. |
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| 19:44.40 | karl79 | maybe its got something to do with the i915 driver... idk... |
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| 19:52.15 | Leander | the n270 does not have an integrated GPU, so it could very well be the GPU overheating |
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| 19:58.47 | karl79 | N270 isn't integrated GPU? |
| 19:58.52 | karl79 | Are you sure about that Leander? |
| 19:58.59 | karl79 | Pretty certain it is integrated... |
| 19:59.16 | karl79 | its got the 945GME, im quite certain its integrated.. |
| 19:59.41 | karl79 | VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GSE Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:27ae] (rev 03 |
| 19:59.46 | Leander | https://ark.intel.com/products/36331/Intel-Atom-Processor-N270-512K-Cache-1_60-GHz-533-MHz-FSB does not mention it, so I would think not |
| 19:59.51 | specing | integrated into the north bridge, not the CPU |
| 19:59.55 | karl79 | Well lspci tells me its integrated so |
| 20:00.26 | karl79 | Display controller [0380]: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:2 |
| 20:00.29 | specing | not sure if those atoms have seperate NB or not |
| 20:00.48 | karl79 | its not because of overheating, that doesn't really make any sense... |
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| 20:01.34 | karl79 | I want a real solution & I know I won't get that solution by bullshitting, I just don't know whats causing this... |
| 20:02.11 | karl79 | I'm fairly certain its integrated. It has to be, its a netbook. its all one board... even the lspci -nnk shows a bunch of stuff that says "integrated" so.. |
| 20:02.34 | karl79 | Its a Dell Inspiron Mini 1011 |
| 20:03.23 | karl79 | and it if was just over-heating then why would it do that when I have it on a flat cold surface? makes no sense. I have a temperature monitor in the top corner too. |
| 20:05.51 | Leander | because it's ten years old and something is spoiled in the cooling mechanism, and the temperature of the CPU does not reflect the temperature of every other component |
| 20:06.11 | karl79 | huh i wonder if this is relevant or not.. |
| 20:06.12 | karl79 | [drm:intel_cpu_fifo_underrun_irq_handler [i915]] *ERROR* CPU pipe A FIFO underrun |
| 20:06.12 | karl79 | [ 7.887599] [drm:intel_cpu_fifo_underrun_irq_handler [i915]] *ERROR* CPU pipe B FIFO underrun |
| 20:06.54 | karl79 | it being 10 years old isn't relevant to this problem, there's nothing wrong with the cooling mechanism, this bug is NOT about the cooling. |
| 20:07.21 | karl79 | if it was because it was getting hot, then why can i re-open the game right after & its fine again? |
| 20:11.07 | Leander | I've seen very weird things happen over the years, so I wouldn't rule out a simple problem like that |
| 20:11.27 | Leander | but if you want to pursue another lead, it's fine |
| 20:11.35 | karl79 | I'm quite certain it has nothing to do with heat............. |
| 20:13.02 | Leander | then I have no other hypothesis to formulate :) |
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| 20:23.58 | FatPhil | could easily just be shitty software. memory leaks and fragmentation causing too much pressure on page tables, that can be expensive. |
| 20:24.48 | merzbow | can anyone recommend an aarch64 CC toolchain that they know works with devuan? |
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| 20:28.38 | merzbow | the arm-none-eabi in the repo doesn't work for arm64 I think |
| 20:32.35 | merzbow | (#devuan-arm found the answer) |
| 20:33.47 | chillfan | we have devuan-arm hm |
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| 20:35.41 | karl79 | FatPhil I don't think its just the software, because if it was just the software then why don't I get the exact same bugs on every other PC I have? |
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| 20:36.43 | karl79 | I appreciate everyone trying to help.... I just don't know what else to do at this point... seems really hopeless.... I'm gonna give FreeBSD a try and see if the bug still happens on there or not, that way I can maybe narrow down what's wrong with it... |
| 20:37.37 | karl79 | kinda lame though, Devuan runs sooo nice on my netbook... it idles at like 140MB of RAM, everything runs so beautifully.. :( |
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| 20:41.34 | buZz | karl79: did you try a different windowmanager? some push nearly everything through compositing engines which could reduce performance aswell |
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| 21:11.03 | karl79 | i use openbox + LXDE |
| 21:11.18 | karl79 | I dunno.... I mean, maybe you might be right, I just don't know if thats what would do it or not.... |
| 21:14.14 | karl79 | Bill-auger hey! You're here too! |
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| 21:22.40 | karl79 | Hey Bill! |
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| 23:06.46 | gnarface | karl79: have you upgraded the kernel since this last started happening? maybe the default cpu frequency governor is no longer the high-performance one. maybe starting the emulator is enough to kick it into high gear then it lags when it settles into low power mode after a few minutes |
| 23:07.21 | gnarface | that's behavior that could change across upgrades |
| 23:09.30 | gnarface | s/last started/first started/ |
| 23:10.10 | bill-auger | hello karl79 - yes my curiosity is spread thinly but broadly across terra freenodia |
| 23:10.29 | gnarface | (it would also seem casually like overheating throttling, until you realized the temperature goes down when it lags) |
| 23:11.12 | gnarface | or, down before it lags or something like that |
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| 23:46.30 | gnarface | hey does apt-cacher-ng work with pkgmaster.devuan.org? |
| 23:47.02 | gnarface | i haven't tried it since debian. i'm wondering if it's still compatible with amprolla3 or if it even matters |
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