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| 00:19.54 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-05-10): ASCII 2.0.0 release candidate is out! http://tinyurl.com/y9pta5vm || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 10:40.16 | rsevero | Hi, i have just I upgraded to ascii. Iptables rules aren't loading: "Couldn't load match 'multiport'... And similar error messages for any extension I try to use. Some extra info about my system: https://pasteboard.co/HkYhKGn.jpg. Ideas? |
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| 11:01.09 | aitor | hi |
| 11:01.36 | aitor | parazyd, fsmithred? |
| 11:02.56 | fsmithred | aitor, what's up? |
| 11:04.09 | aitor | hi, fsmithred! |
| 11:04.26 | fsmithred | hi |
| 11:04.27 | aitor | i uploaded the sources of the popupmenu: |
| 11:04.44 | aitor | gnuinos.org/popupmenu |
| 11:05.28 | aitor | you can see it working in the following video: |
| 11:05.28 | aitor | gnuinos.org/popupmenu/popupmenu.mpeg |
| 11:06.41 | aitor | clicking in any app you will get a segmentation fault, because the other part of the project is needed; that is, the "su-to-root" SUID binary |
| 11:07.49 | aitor | as you can see in the code, it's multithreaded |
| 11:08.07 | aitor | i'll be back shortly, need to go |
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| 13:35.07 | msiism | when my ascii system boots up, i'm getting a few strange messages during network interface configuration. and i don't really know what to make of them. here's the relevant part of my bootlog: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/756c08fd/ . the messages i'm talking about are in lines 14 and 16. |
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| 13:38.50 | msiism | my /etc/network/interfaces file looks like this: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/dbbd66fa/ |
| 13:40.05 | fsmithred | msiism, do you have a network manager of some kind installed? |
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| 13:40.39 | msiism | fsmithred: no. well, not intentionally. let me check. |
| 13:41.10 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, nither wicd nor network-manager are installed. |
| 13:41.22 | fsmithred | connman? |
| 13:41.33 | msiism | fsmithred: i've been gettign this message since i upgraded from jessie. |
| 13:41.41 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, let's check that as well. |
| 13:41.57 | msiism | fsmithred: no connman. |
| 13:42.06 | fsmithred | the only weird thing I see is that ifup says eth0 is already configured |
| 13:42.16 | fsmithred | does eth0 get an address? |
| 13:42.32 | msiism | fsmithred: right. and, even more strange, eth0 works after boot-up |
| 13:42.55 | fsmithred | so both wireless and wired are working at the same time? |
| 13:43.03 | msiism | fsmithred: right. |
| 13:43.31 | fsmithred | unplug the network cable |
| 13:43.49 | fsmithred | unless that's what you want to use |
| 13:43.53 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, done |
| 13:44.05 | fsmithred | now it can't get an address unless you plug it in |
| 13:44.08 | fsmithred | I believe |
| 13:44.16 | fsmithred | allow-hotplug |
| 13:44.18 | msiism | fsmithred: probably. |
| 13:44.29 | msiism | fsmithred: well, let me check the latest bootlog again. |
| 13:44.35 | fsmithred | ok |
| 13:44.49 | msiism | because the thing i posted happened with the cable disconnected. |
| 13:45.08 | msiism | but then i checked with it connected as well. but can't remember right now if it made a difference. |
| 13:46.28 | fsmithred | I'm looking at man interfaces, and what it says does not seem to match the reality here |
| 13:47.03 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, it made one difference. "invoke-rc.d: could not determine current runlevel" did not show when the cable was connected. |
| 13:47.07 | fsmithred | interfaces marked "auto" are brought up at boot time (by ifup) |
| 13:47.15 | msiism | right. |
| 13:47.39 | fsmithred | so why is ifup trying to bring up the interface marked as 'allow-hotplug' |
| 13:48.09 | msiism | fsmithred: maybe the interface needs to be up to allow hotplugging? |
| 13:48.17 | fsmithred | I recall there was a problem with 'allow-hotplug' when we first started working with ascii |
| 13:48.22 | msiism | let me look into that man page |
| 13:48.39 | fsmithred | and I was telling people to replace it with 'auto' |
| 13:48.57 | msiism | ok, so i will try that. |
| 13:49.04 | fsmithred | but I think their problem was that it wasn't coming up at boot |
| 13:49.16 | msiism | i'm never using the hotplug functionality anyway. |
| 13:50.42 | msiism | there's also a not about some bug in ifdown concerning the auto meathod. |
| 13:50.50 | msiism | (in the man page) |
| 13:51.19 | fsmithred | cable in or out should make no difference |
| 13:53.31 | msiism | just read the paragraph explaining auto and allow-hotplug. even more confused now. |
| 13:53.57 | msiism | well, let me try using auto instead of allow-htplug, reboot and see what happens. |
| 13:54.16 | fsmithred | ok, sounds like a plan |
| 13:54.52 | msiism | will be back shortly. |
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| 14:01.46 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, that look different. the "already configured" message fpr eth0 is gone. and it's now clear that "invoke-rc.d: could not determine current runlevel" refers to setting up my wlan0. |
| 14:02.28 | fsmithred | wlan0 should probably get 'allow-hotplug' - udev will see it when you plug it in. |
| 14:02.45 | fsmithred | unless you actually want both working |
| 14:03.12 | msiism | fsmithred: yes, i was thinking about that. |
| 14:03.39 | msiism | fsmithred: also, i now remember why i was using allow-hotplug for eth0 (which is usually not connected) |
| 14:04.23 | msiism | if i use "auto", the system will try to bring the interface up even if there's no cable connection. that means it tries and tries to get a connection and then fails. |
| 14:04.48 | msiism | that takes nearly a minute. |
| 14:05.38 | fsmithred | that sucks |
| 14:05.44 | msiism | it does. |
| 14:06.02 | fsmithred | another option is to remove all the allow-* lines and just bring up the interface manually |
| 14:06.28 | msiism | yes, for eth0 that would be ok for me. |
| 14:06.29 | fsmithred | you got a panel on your desktop? You could make buttons to do that. |
| 14:07.04 | msiism | well, not really a panel here. |
| 14:07.14 | msiism | also, you need to eb root to bring up an interface, afaik. |
| 14:07.32 | fsmithred | or configure sudo to allow it |
| 14:07.41 | msiism | ok, that's an idea. |
| 14:07.41 | fsmithred | nopasswd |
| 14:09.50 | msiism | ok, so let me remove the "auto" stanza for eth0 and put allow-hotplug for the wifi device. speaking of the wifi device. i think i'm getting some error from udev about that device as well. |
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| 14:10.20 | aitor | hi |
| 14:10.52 | fsmithred | msiism, want to see a sample sudoers file? |
| 14:10.55 | fsmithred | hi aitor |
| 14:11.07 | msiism | fsmithred: if you have one, sure. |
| 14:11.11 | aitor | hi smithred |
| 14:11.14 | fsmithred | I'll email it |
| 14:11.22 | msiism | nice. |
| 14:11.46 | msiism | you should have my adress through the forum, right? |
| 14:12.23 | msiism | in the meantime. i'll reboot with the new settings. |
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| 14:20.11 | msiism | fsmithred: putting "allow-hotplug" for wlan0 also answered the question what causes the "already configured" message. it seems like it's eudev, because i get that now for wlan0 (and nothing for eth0, which is correct). |
| 14:22.43 | msiism | still it's strange that i get "invoke-rc.d: could not determine current runlevel", when i use "auto wlan0" instead of "allow-hotplug wlan0". |
| 14:25.41 | msiism | fsmithred: thanks for the sudo config, using a file in suoders.d this way looks like a good idea. |
| 14:28.16 | msiism | i'd have to use a group instead of a single username though, since i have 3 accounts on my system, two of which i usually run in parallel. i'll check that out. |
| 14:28.33 | fsmithred | yeah, there's a way to do that |
| 14:28.57 | fsmithred | I don't know who is calling invoke-rc.d |
| 14:29.47 | msiism | "could not determine current runlevel" sounds like sth that probably needs to be fixed, don't know. |
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| 14:50.53 | AlexLikeRock | morningg |
| 15:03.26 | msiism | btw, can anyone here confirm the X server crashing on ASCII under conditions mentioned in debian bug #834270 (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=834270)? i'm having the problem on my system. |
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| 15:15.35 | fsmithred | msiism, yes, I can reproduce that bug |
| 15:17.58 | fsmithred | if the user on vt2 is root, I don't get the crash when root logs out. |
| 15:18.29 | fsmithred | if root is on vt1, or if both users are unprivileged users, I get the crash when user on vt2 logs out |
| 15:19.06 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, thanks. |
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| 15:19.48 | msiism | fsmithred: so, what now? probably reply to the debian bug report. but then it may be an upstream thing. |
| 15:22.10 | msiism | for me, this is really a big problem because these crash conditions are pretty much identical to how i work. |
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| 15:31.24 | fsmithred | msiism, I think I just fixed it |
| 15:31.40 | fsmithred | uncommented the needs_root... line in Xwrapper.config |
| 15:38.26 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, well that will make the xserver freeze on my system. |
| 15:38.44 | msiism | i initially had to put it there after the upgrade to be able to run it at all |
| 15:39.01 | fsmithred | I had commented that line out because I no longer needed it after installing libpam-elogind |
| 15:39.46 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, i remeber you suggested to install that, yes. but somehow that didn't fix things for me. |
| 15:39.57 | fsmithred | I have consolekit and the backends for consolekit, also libpam-elogind and elogind |
| 15:40.17 | fsmithred | also have slim, but I tested with that disabled |
| 15:40.48 | fsmithred | what kind of hardware you got? |
| 15:40.52 | msiism | ok, i'll try that |
| 15:41.07 | msiism | fsmithred: you mean graphics card? |
| 15:41.13 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 15:41.27 | fsmithred | VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller |
| 15:41.40 | msiism | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:42.48 | fsmithred | you have xserver-xorg-video-intel installed? |
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| 15:43.08 | msiism | yes. |
| 15:43.39 | msiism | but i don't have elogind or libpam-eligond |
| 15:44.33 | msiism | i have consolekit though. |
| 15:44.52 | msiism | let me install elogind and libpam-elogind and see how that goes |
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| 15:44.58 | fsmithred | mesa-utils? |
| 15:45.11 | msiism | installed |
| 15:46.16 | fsmithred | I'll go make another cup of coffee and see how that goes. |
| 15:46.23 | msiism | ;) |
| 15:46.38 | msiism | you probably need to install coffeekit to make it work |
| 15:48.18 | msiism | brb |
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| 15:55.34 | fsmithred | ? |
| 15:55.51 | msiism | fsmithred: installing elogind and libpam-elogind solved the root rights problem |
| 15:56.05 | fsmithred | but not the crash? |
| 15:56.12 | msiism | exactly |
| 15:56.24 | msiism | it's even worse now. |
| 15:56.31 | fsmithred | how? |
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| 15:57.01 | msiism | if when i exit x on the second tty everything turns black and the system freezes |
| 15:57.19 | fsmithred | yeah, that's bad |
| 15:59.06 | msiism | i've installed debian 9 on a laptop now. i'll check if it occurs there as well. (i suppose so.) |
| 16:00.04 | msiism | fsmithred: about the root rights problem. the important thing was that it dien't work right away, but only after a reboot. |
| 16:00.16 | msiism | (though you could make it work without rebooting, i guess.) |
| 16:03.11 | fsmithred | I'm getting slightly different results if I run openbox-session instead of openbox |
| 16:03.58 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, i think openbox-session is only running the autostart script for ob in additiona to starting the wm. |
| 16:03.59 | fsmithred | instead of immediately crashing, the xserver on tty1 is still there, but I lose keyboard and mouse, and when I try to ctrl-alt-Fn, then the xserver crashes |
| 16:04.18 | msiism | yes, that's what i had before. |
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| 16:10.20 | msiism | fsmithred: the exact same thing happens on debian 9. |
| 16:11.02 | msiism | (9.4, to be exact, which is the most current version) |
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| 17:29.47 | mchasard | i'm under virtualbox but the maximum resolution is 1024x768 |
| 17:30.01 | mchasard | how to make it bigger ... |
| 17:30.16 | mchasard | i tried arand xrandr but no way |
| 17:30.59 | mchasard | i jusst would like 1366x768 |
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| 17:34.23 | golinux | mchasard: Install the guest additions VBoxGuestAdditions.iso |
| 17:34.50 | mchasard | where ? |
| 17:35.03 | mchasard | into devuan? |
| 17:35.23 | mchasard | i dont remember |
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| 17:41.37 | mchasard | i have to mount iso ? after donwloading |
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| 18:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | <rant> now this http://paste.opensuse.org/53428650 (man systemd-hwdb) must be the most helpful manpage I ever seen¡ Description: systemd-hwdb expects a command and command specific arguments.</rant> |
| 18:12.04 | MinceR | lol |
| 18:15.25 | MinceR | the --usr option is very logical too |
| 18:15.49 | fsmithred | I noticed that. They must be confused about where they are in the filesystem. |
| 18:16.21 | fsmithred | bbl. I need pie. |
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| 18:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if they already started running a RHKB knowledge base group you can join for only 1000 bucks a year, and selling books with the secret knowhow for just like 200 bucks per book |
| 18:23.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | apropos systemd|wc -l ->150 |
| 18:26.18 | *** join/#devuan Taters (~Taters@45.76.11.118) |
| 18:29.47 | MinceR | they probably rely on personal communication |
| 18:30.01 | MinceR | if you have a redhat support contract, they may be willing to share some secrets with you |
| 18:30.08 | MinceR | the priesthood gets more access |
| 18:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | what am I supposed to use instead of netdate ? |
| 18:35.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | once it been easy to compare local systime to network time, by `netdate:date:netdate` |
| 18:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ; even |
| 18:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | then there still was ntpdate |
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| 18:46.34 | msiism | fsmithred: after a longish discussion in #debian, the root of the X crash problem has been found. you need to comment out the if statement that will cause clear_console to be run when bash is a login shell. it's a bash-related issue. other shells (zsh and csh tested) work fine. |
| 18:47.02 | msiism | i mean in ~/.bash_logout |
| 18:52.54 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@fixed-187-188-201-73.totalplay.net) |
| 18:54.44 | msiism | i was also told that it's not very likely that this will be fixed in stretch but may have been fixed in buster. |
| 18:55.07 | msiism | well, maybe devuan can fix it in ascii stable. |
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| 18:58.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems simple enough |
| 18:59.15 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: yes. but i don't know if it's the most elegant solution. |
| 18:59.53 | msiism | but even with this commented out, bash clear'S the screen when i log out. |
| 18:59.57 | msiism | so, it should be save. |
| 19:00.15 | msiism | but maybe someone should look into how it has been fixed in buster, if it has. |
| 19:02.28 | golinux | Good that you figured that out. Maybe file a bug report with the solution? |
| 19:09.26 | msiism | golinux: yes, can do that. |
| 19:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: I still fail to understand the problem completely. .bash_logout is run when a login shell exits. So where exactly is a shell exiting that causes X11 to break? |
| 19:10.02 | msiism | but maybe it should be discussed on the dev meet first. because i'm not sure about the solution really being a good solution. |
| 19:10.34 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: it seems that the if statement running clear_console will cause X to break. |
| 19:10.58 | golinux | A bug report puts it on the radar. |
| 19:11.03 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: however, running clear console from tty2 when you have X running on tty1 does not break X. |
| 19:11.12 | msiism | golinux: well, you're about that. |
| 19:11.32 | golinux | Maybe not a priority byt at least there would be a record of it |
| 19:11.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, probably the http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/clear_console.1.html command itself does that, but I don't get when and why it gets invoked. You say it gets invoked via .bash_logout but how is that run on X11 startup? or does the error happen sometime later on, not during startup? |
| 19:12.14 | msiism | golinux: it's my top priority :). but i have it fixed here already, so. |
| 19:12.19 | *** join/#devuan finsternis (Y@2604:180::6050:fab4) |
| 19:13.06 | golinux | I know you have it fixed. But how does that help other Devuan users with this corner case? |
| 19:13.33 | msiism | golinux: i will post a bug report, no worries. |
| 19:13.48 | golinux | Good. |
| 19:14.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: please tell me what *exactly* is the error observed |
| 19:14.28 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is: when i have X running on VT1 and also on VT2 and then stop X on VT2 and log out on VT2, X will crash on VT1. |
| 19:14.42 | fsmithred | comment out all three lines? |
| 19:14.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 19:14.51 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: there's an older debian bug report about that as well |
| 19:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess clear_console itself is fubar |
| 19:15.16 | msiism | fsmithred: well, if without content will not make too much sense, so i commented them all. |
| 19:15.24 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: possible |
| 19:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see wgy clear_console is needed at all, maybe just kick it out at least of all X11 and bash scripts |
| 19:17.00 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: but, as i've said. running clear_console from vt2 in this scenario does not break X. |
| 19:17.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 19:17.30 | msiism | or is there a bash built-in "clear_console"? |
| 19:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 19:17.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least not in my bash |
| 19:18.01 | msiism | ok |
| 19:18.07 | fsmithred | it has a man page |
| 19:18.13 | msiism | right |
| 19:18.44 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:19.05 | fsmithred | ok, why does my computer beep with every key press now? Only in hexchat. |
| 19:19.17 | msiism | yes, that's what is also in bash_logout. |
| 19:21.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | clrearing console seems a cosmetic issue only. Thus I suggest replacing /usr/bin/clear_console by e.g a "#!/bisn/sh \n echo 'console not cleared since clear_console is crap " |
| 19:22.12 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: well, bash_logout says it's there to increase privacy. |
| 19:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | from manpage is sounds like clear_console is meant for interactive use only, since it "changes the ***foreground*** virtual terminal..." |
| 19:22.46 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: yes, i stumbled upon that and it did not make sense to me. |
| 19:22.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously this will fail when your script isn't running on forgrount vt |
| 19:23.09 | msiism | fsmithred: any success with making the beeping go away? |
| 19:23.21 | fsmithred | no, still searching |
| 19:23.27 | fsmithred | and looking through preferences |
| 19:23.31 | fsmithred | fuck this |
| 19:23.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | replace by "clear" |
| 19:23.50 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: that's what i'd thought about |
| 19:24.04 | msiism | clear essentially does the job, right? |
| 19:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, should |
| 19:24.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe issues with scrollback buffer, if any |
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| 19:25.02 | msiism | but then, in my expericense, the screen will be cleared no matter what if you log out of a tty session |
| 19:25.21 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: yes, clear allows scrollback. |
| 19:25.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | a privacy enhancement patch that breaks the system is not an enhancement anyway |
| 19:25.43 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: also, how are you gonna scroll back after logout? |
| 19:25.57 | fsmithred | what is $SHLVL? |
| 19:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea |
| 19:26.12 | msiism | don't know |
| 19:26.39 | msiism | it 2 in X |
| 19:26.42 | msiism | it is... |
| 19:27.00 | msiism | checks man bash |
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| 19:27.36 | msiism | "SHLVL Incremented by one each time an instance of bash is started" |
| 19:28.32 | msiism | so, it can only be 1 when you are on the tty. |
| 19:30.35 | msiism | probably meaning "shell level" |
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| 19:31.05 | fsmithred | ok, the fix seems to work here |
| 19:31.37 | msiism | good |
| 19:32.24 | fsmithred | that's with needs_root_rights commented |
| 19:32.42 | msiism | fsmithred: i've tested it both ways. mkaes no difference. |
| 19:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: pastebin pls |
| 19:32.53 | fsmithred | pastebin what? |
| 19:33.06 | fsmithred | you want a video? |
| 19:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | bash_logout? or whatever the fix |
| 19:33.17 | fsmithred | I just commented out three lines |
| 19:33.20 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: well, comment out the if statement. |
| 19:33.33 | fsmithred | they're really easy to find in the script, because they are the only three lines that aren't already a comment |
| 19:33.35 | msiism | in ~/.bash_logout |
| 19:33.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't have the if statement here, and actually that's a fuzzy instruction |
| 19:34.08 | fsmithred | #if [ "$SHLVL" = 1 ]; then |
| 19:34.08 | fsmithred | # [ -x /usr/bin/clear_console ] && /usr/bin/clear_console -q |
| 19:34.08 | fsmithred | #fi |
| 19:34.19 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: ok, why didn't you have that? |
| 19:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that looks fine |
| 19:34.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | because... other OS here |
| 19:34.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | right now |
| 19:34.58 | fsmithred | what's in your bash_logout? |
| 19:35.01 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: ok, i see (multics?) |
| 19:35.41 | fsmithred | if we're betting, I'll place my dollar on suse |
| 19:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: in mine? prolly irrelevant, also which one? some user's, root's, system's? |
| 19:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 19:36.51 | msiism | do they still ship with chameleon graphics? i always liked that. |
| 19:37.28 | fsmithred | refracta ships with chameleon graphics, but not the kind you mean |
| 19:37.40 | msiism | fsmithred: what kind then? |
| 19:37.46 | fsmithred | - wallpaper that changes color when you adjust the brightness |
| 19:37.54 | msiism | wow |
| 19:38.01 | fsmithred | but it doesn't work in ascii, because xfce removed the brightness slider |
| 19:38.23 | msiism | sad to hear that. |
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| 19:38.47 | fsmithred | yeah, it was cool. mlsmith made those wallpapers. |
| 19:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | well I got a /home/jr/chrootdir/home/devuan/.bash_logout |
| 19:39.20 | fsmithred | which probably looks like ours |
| 19:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, does |
| 19:40.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | just delete the file |
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| 19:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | or s' [ -x /usr/bin/clear_console ] && /usr/bin/clear_console -q ' clear ' |
| 19:42.21 | fsmithred | file is the same in wheezy, and in squeeze, I don't have it. |
| 19:42.53 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: well, it could just be deleted, yes. |
| 19:43.13 | msiism | i mean, it will only contain commented lines after the fix. |
| 19:44.03 | msiism | also man bash explains everything about the relevant dot files. |
| 19:44.46 | msiism | so should i file that bug report against bash? |
| 19:45.06 | msiism | that's probably the most appropriate |
| 19:45.58 | fsmithred | maybe |
| 19:46.09 | fsmithred | it's a bash file that's calling the offending command |
| 19:46.21 | fsmithred | but it's doing the same thing it's been doing for years, and it used to work |
| 19:46.28 | fsmithred | so something else must have changed |
| 19:46.39 | msiism | yes, sth about xorg, i guess. |
| 19:46.54 | fsmithred | and probably has to do with permissions or authentication |
| 19:47.05 | fsmithred | I find it interesting that root acts differently |
| 19:47.09 | fsmithred | on vt2 |
| 19:47.13 | msiism | right |
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| 19:48.19 | msiism | someone with a lot of time should probably build X from the upstream source and see how that fares. |
| 19:48.51 | msiism | i mean, is running xorg without setuid root a debian thing? |
| 19:49.52 | fsmithred | I don't think it's specific to debian |
| 19:50.02 | fsmithred | maybe do the same test in fedora |
| 19:53.33 | msiism | ok, i was just wondering if it's an upstream change. but that should be in some changelog then... |
| 19:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if only I had a VT here and clear_console, then I could run a `sleep 10; clear_console` on VT2 and then switch to VT1 before the sleep expires |
| 19:54.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd bet this would clear VT1 not VT2 |
| 19:54.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and thus prove that clear_console is braindead and to blame |
| 19:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas on the de*an servers I got clear_console, I don't have VTs |
| 19:56.05 | msiism | well, if you find the time, please test this. you could just reply to my bug report with the results then (i'll post that tomorrow) |
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| 20:02.29 | msiism | bbl |
| 20:03.17 | fsmithred | I just did Doc's test, and at 10 seconds, the desktop on vt1 blinked off and on. |
| 20:03.44 | fsmithred | and I didn't lose keyboard/mouse |
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| 20:08.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the question is what concept is behind this "privacy enhancement" at all. If it was about arbitrary output to stdout of programs that have to terminal wrapper, then this output would show up on VT2 aiui but you could and should handle it via >/dev/null 2>&1 of the bash starting X, instead of deleting VT scroll buffer after bash finished. OTOH when processes write to /dev/console or whatever, it's pretty unclear on which VT this will |
| 20:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | show up and thus clear_console is FUBAR evidently on >1 VT active |
| 20:09.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | have NO terminal wrapper* |
| 20:10.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest git-blame to find out whom to shout at, and reverting this "privacy enhancement patch" no matter how old it is |
| 20:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | git-blame clear_console that is |
| 20:12.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: yes, that blinking prolly cleared your scroll buffer, no? |
| 20:12.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | on vt1 |
| 20:13.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and prolly would have killed a X11 or whatever that has a handle of vt1 |
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| 20:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: you could switch to X instead of vt1, after shooting `sleep 10; clear_console` on any vt. Will prolly kill your X11 |
| 20:17.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you *had* "desktop" aka x11 on vt1? |
| 20:27.11 | fsmithred | yes, ran X on vt1, then on vt2 with another user |
| 20:27.44 | fsmithred | then exited on vt2 and switched back to vt1 (still X) before the 10 seconds were up |
| 20:28.04 | fsmithred | and no scroll buffer in the terminal, because I hadn't used it |
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| 20:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | my take on this is: clear_console is cruft that introduces problems and has no clearly defined purpose |
| 20:30.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus should get nuked |
| 20:32.39 | fsmithred | elogind: cleared session 44 |
| 20:32.50 | fsmithred | I just tried it with two consoles, no X |
| 20:33.00 | fsmithred | and you were right - I can't scroll up in vt1 now |
| 20:33.06 | fsmithred | and I got that message |
| 20:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see --userwait option in chvt, which is there for a reason |
| 20:35.21 | fsmithred | ok, I commented out all the lines, both users |
| 20:35.24 | fsmithred | console only |
| 20:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | before I bother to investigate further on how to fix this clear_console stuff so it works as supposed, I need somebody to point me to a hint about *how* exactly it *is* supposed to work, coll. "what it should do" |
| 20:35.51 | fsmithred | I'm logged in on vt1, switch to vt2, do not log in, switch back to vt1 and I can't scroll up |
| 20:36.28 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: maybe someone in #bash knows that. |
| 20:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: this is completely orthogonal to bash |
| 20:37.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 20:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | it more looks like a poetterism along elogind |
| 20:38.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: confirmed |
| 20:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | chvt conveniently clears scroll buffer |
| 20:38.57 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: ok. |
| 20:40.27 | msiism | fsmithred: did you have to run X in vt2 and exit that before logging out there in order to crash X in vt1? |
| 20:40.59 | msiism | or would it be enough to just be logged in on the cli and then exit while X was running on vt1? |
| 20:41.29 | fsmithred | no, no X |
| 20:41.34 | msiism | ok |
| 20:41.39 | fsmithred | one more |
| 20:42.09 | fsmithred | if I log out and log in again on vt1 only, I can still scroll up. |
| 20:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | now with the "patch" applied, yes |
| 20:42.37 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:42.50 | fsmithred | all those lines are commented out |
| 20:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | with clear_console you shouldn't be able to scroll |
| 20:43.11 | fsmithred | there's no clear_console running anymore |
| 20:43.29 | fsmithred | not from .bash_logout, anyway |
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| 20:43.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | try "clear_console & exit" |
| 20:44.06 | fsmithred | in vt1 only? |
| 20:44.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 20:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | should clear the scroll buffer |
| 20:44.56 | fsmithred | yeah, that works |
| 20:45.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what this bash_logout does |
| 20:45.43 | fsmithred | but why does it clear the vt1 scroll buffer when user2 logs out of vt2? |
| 20:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | however it prolly doesn't work on VT2 when you do "sleep 15 % clear_console & exit" and then switch to vt1 swiftly |
| 20:47.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: my guess: because clear_console clears the vt "with focus" |
| 20:47.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | not the vt it's run inside |
| 20:48.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and x11 doesn't like its VT's scroll buffer getting cleared while X11 still running |
| 20:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus the bash that started x11 on vt2, on exit, will make clear_console clear vt1's scroll buffer |
| 20:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | or vice versa, whater the vt that will be active when a particular x11 shell exits |
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| 20:51.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/%/&/ ^^^^ |
| 20:52.26 | fsmithred | well, it was crashing x on vt1 before I switched away from vt2 |
| 20:52.39 | fsmithred | it switched for me |
| 20:53.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | so e.g. when you choose "close other x-session" from the desktop's logout menu, the active VT is this one, not the other one that gets closed |
| 20:53.14 | fsmithred | I removed libpam-elogind and elogind and libelogind0, and now logging out of vt2 does not crash vt1's X |
| 20:53.54 | fsmithred | I don't have that choice - it's just the standard openbox logout that I'm using |
| 20:54.10 | fsmithred | and it doesn't crash until I log the user out of vt2 |
| 20:54.12 | msiism | fsmithred: what happens if you switch back? |
| 20:54.15 | msiism | to vt1? |
| 20:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | now you're on sth with elogin |
| 20:54.35 | fsmithred | vt1 X is still working after logout of vt2 |
| 20:54.50 | msiism | ok, weird. |
| 20:54.52 | fsmithred | I had to uncomment needs_root_rights |
| 20:55.04 | msiism | and uninstall elogidd etc.? |
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| 20:55.10 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:55.14 | msiism | ok |
| 20:55.27 | fsmithred | which means I lost something else, but I don't recall what |
| 20:55.50 | fsmithred | maybe nothing - I use spacefm/pmount for usb drives |
| 20:56.02 | aitor | hi |
| 20:56.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | poettering's approach to what's a "session" and how one session must nit interfere with other sessions, even when both have same user - my uneducated guess |
| 20:56.49 | fsmithred | I'm testing with two different users |
| 20:56.53 | fsmithred | hi aitor |
| 20:56.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | enforced by elogin prolly |
| 20:56.58 | msiism | maybe you could have a look at the package changelog of bash in debian |
| 20:57.27 | fsmithred | I think it's elogind |
| 20:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, this doesn't look like a bash isssue |
| 20:57.41 | fsmithred | that's what gave me a message when it crashed |
| 20:58.12 | aitor | hi, fsmithred |
| 20:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | bash might have *one* issue in that it doesn't implicitly clear scroll buffer on exit |
| 20:58.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so they invented that clear_console botch |
| 20:58.51 | fsmithred | Got this message on vt1 when I logged out on vt2: elogind: cleared session 44 |
| 20:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: that might however have been the session you just logged out from |
| 21:00.15 | fsmithred | is there a way to know what session I'm in? |
| 21:00.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple test: do it twice. when it means "vt1" then 44 won't change |
| 21:00.49 | fsmithred | ok |
| 21:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet somewhere in /proc or whatever, or on dbus, you can ask which session number you're in |
| 21:02.12 | fsmithred | oh, that's a thought - I happen to have a dbus-free and *kit-free install right now. I could try it there. |
| 21:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | great |
| 21:03.48 | muep | is there any formal notion of a session at all in case you don't have something that defines one? |
| 21:04.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | an easy way to clear scroll buffer (verified): mc; clear; reset (F10 to exit mc) |
| 21:05.12 | muep | to me it seems that at least linux by itself does not really keep track of a "session". it is all just a bag of processes |
| 21:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind, fooled me |
| 21:06.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't work |
| 21:06.49 | msiism | just re-checked: running /usr/bin/clear_console on vt2 with X running in vt1 will crash X in vt1 in debian 9. |
| 21:08.20 | fsmithred | no X crash on the dbus-free install |
| 21:10.01 | fsmithred | in just console, logging out of vt2 clears vt1's scroll buffer |
| 21:10.14 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, i was going to abandon dbus, anyway... already using pmount to mount my removable devices. |
| 21:10.17 | fsmithred | oh, I didn't change .bash_logout |
| 21:10.45 | fsmithred | I was surprised at how much I could install without dbus |
| 21:11.04 | fsmithred | I abandoned xfce and installed openbox and lxpanel instead |
| 21:11.26 | fsmithred | most of the apps that go into Refracta installed. |
| 21:12.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: ((just re-checked)) exactly what I expected |
| 21:12.35 | msiism | i must have mixed things up before |
| 21:12.49 | msiism | so, this is really not a bash issue then |
| 21:12.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: so this is a clear_console issue |
| 21:13.00 | fsmithred | don't think so |
| 21:13.06 | msiism | maybe i just don't file the report against any perticular package at all |
| 21:13.17 | aitor | LXDE == swallow |
| 21:13.33 | KatolaZ | msiism, fsmithred any progress? |
| 21:13.35 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: but if it doesn'T cause problems on dbus-free installs? |
| 21:13.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know |
| 21:13.46 | fsmithred | LXDE lives under your porch roof? |
| 21:14.11 | msiism | KatolaZ: well, i'm trying to put together a bug report, but this is really complicted. |
| 21:14.11 | fsmithred | I don't know if it's actually dbus or one of the kits |
| 21:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I blame the kits |
| 21:14.46 | aitor | lol, fsmithred: yes |
| 21:14.56 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: ;) |
| 21:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you always blame the kids ;-P |
| 21:15.39 | fsmithred | removing elogind eliminated the x-crash for me |
| 21:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the root culprit is clear_console |
| 21:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: great, my guess was somewhat correct then |
| 21:16.35 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: ok, so maybe i can just go ahed with a basic summary as a bug report and then you could add your finding to that? |
| 21:17.03 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: i had trouble following... |
| 21:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: to be honest you guys did all the findings, I just suggested what to check |
| 21:17.21 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: well, that's elaborate guessing then. |
| 21:17.39 | msiism | actually, someone on #debian did the findings, tbh |
| 21:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: >>running /usr/bin/clear_console on vt2 with X running in vt1 will crash X in vt1 in debian 9.<< sounds like a pretty decent bug report to me |
| 21:17.48 | msiism | the initial ones at least |
| 21:18.44 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: yes, but the thing with .bash_logout should be mentioned because it includes a workaround. |
| 21:18.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | my approach: nuke clear_console, it's fubar and unclear purpose anyway |
| 21:19.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: no, bash_logout uses clear_console and the workaround is to _not_ do that |
| 21:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | the bug is clear_console |
| 21:20.48 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: that's what i meant |
| 21:21.07 | msiism | about bash_logout |
| 21:24.49 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 21:24.58 | msiism | now, which package conatins clear_console? |
| 21:25.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | clear_console patch: - *; + #!/bin/bash + for ( x=0; x < 9999; x++ ); do echo -e "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n"; done |
| 21:25.34 | fsmithred | lol, bash |
| 21:25.45 | KatolaZ | msiism: |
| 21:25.47 | KatolaZ | apt-file search clear_console |
| 21:25.47 | KatolaZ | bash: /usr/bin/clear_console |
| 21:25.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 21:26.05 | msiism | KatolaZ: ok, thanks (another apt-trick i need to note down...) |
| 21:29.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/91059554 |
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| 21:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | debianism |
| 21:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/71802481 |
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| 21:32.40 | msiism | well, the bash version in ascii is 4.4 |
| 21:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm yep, might have been introduced with bash4.4 |
| 21:33.52 | msiism | fsmithred: on your dbus-free install, did you have to modify bash_logout or did it work out of the box? |
| 21:34.04 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: maybe, yes. |
| 21:34.45 | fsmithred | msiism, I predict that you will be told that you're supposed to select 'switch user' from the desktop menu |
| 21:35.14 | fsmithred | I did not modify bash_logout |
| 21:35.22 | fsmithred | in dbus-free |
| 21:35.35 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, thanks. |
| 21:36.09 | fsmithred | I did modify Xwrapper.config, but that was done when I first installed it |
| 21:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, echo '#!/bin/sh' > `which clear_console` |
| 21:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | bash bash a bit |
| 21:38.04 | msiism | what's the difference to just say `which clear_console`? |
| 21:38.23 | msiism | (don't really get it...) |
| 21:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? I'm neutering it |
| 21:38.35 | msiism | ok. |
| 21:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | replacing it with a 1liner file that's just a shebang |
| 21:38.57 | fsmithred | one gives you the path to the executable, the other replaces the code with a bash shebang |
| 21:39.10 | msiism | now, i understand, yes. |
| 21:39.19 | fsmithred | a nuclear option |
| 21:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I love those ;-P |
| 21:40.09 | fsmithred | I used to have a button on my windows desktop that ran loadlin |
| 21:40.20 | aitor | nuclear option? |
| 21:40.25 | aitor | :D |
| 21:40.47 | fsmithred | weaponry, aitor |
| 21:41.06 | fsmithred | scorched-earth policy |
| 21:42.52 | aitor | i'm a hooligan of two different scientists |
| 21:43.13 | msiism | ok, bug report filed (for devuan). feel free to add to it once it's in the system. |
| 21:44.00 | aitor | the first one was involved in the manhattan project |
| 21:44.50 | aitor | the second one was imprisoned by Stalin |
| 21:46.40 | msiism | KatolaZ: maybe there should also be a pseudo-header for the devuan release branch for bug reports. |
| 21:46.53 | msiism | (like jessie, ascii, ceres, i mean) |
| 21:48.34 | KatolaZ | msiism: you can add tags, yes |
| 21:48.36 | msiism | but, ok, it may be pretty clear from the package version as well |
| 21:48.42 | KatolaZ | this is how bugs are sorted already |
| 21:48.44 | msiism | KatolaZ: ok, didn't know that |
| 21:49.04 | msiism | well, i knew of "package" and "version" pseudo-headers only |
| 21:49.51 | KatolaZ | msiism: Tags: is the one |
| 21:49.56 | KatolaZ | https://bugs.devuan.org/Reporting.html |
| 21:50.42 | msiism | KatolaZ: ok, i always have to re-read that before posting abug report. but i didn't get to the end this time... |
| 21:50.49 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:51.47 | msiism | i will remember now |
| 21:56.02 | msiism | fsmithred: btw, is installing elogind and libpam-elogind a solution that works generally or just when you would use startx to get X? |
| 21:56.19 | msiism | i mean for running X as an unrivileged user. |
| 21:57.35 | msiism | i remember different DEs were using different stuff there. |
| 21:57.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you really are concerned about that "privacy issue", a ``` echo -e '#!/bin/sh \n for ( x=0; x < 9999; x++ ); do echo -e "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n"; done' > `which clear_console` ´´´ could be a working workaround |
| 21:58.36 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: i think i understand that :) |
| 21:58.49 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 22:01.24 | *** join/#devuan Venker (~zomfg@171.pool85-51-159.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 22:01.30 | Venker | hi people |
| 22:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh, takes 5s runtime |
| 22:01.48 | NewGnuGuy | Venker: hellp |
| 22:01.53 | NewGnuGuy | hello |
| 22:02.35 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 22:03.47 | Venker | I'm thinking about to switch to beowulf (I'm in ascii right now). Is it ready? |
| 22:04.03 | golinux | Please wait if you are using a DE |
| 22:04.15 | Criggie | design engineer ? |
| 22:04.20 | msiism | fsmithred, DocScrutinizer: http://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=209 |
| 22:04.30 | golinux | Server should be safer |
| 22:04.44 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 22:04.46 | golinux | Me? Nah. |
| 22:05.15 | Venker | golinux: Desktop Environment? |
| 22:05.35 | golinux | Venker: Not much has been done on Beowulf yet. |
| 22:05.45 | msiism | Venker: yes, DE is desktop environement |
| 22:05.45 | golinux | So ymmv |
| 22:06.09 | Venker | I read that Heads is beowulf based |
| 22:06.17 | KatolaZ | Venker: beowulf is not ready for stage time |
| 22:06.24 | golinux | It uses a WM iirc |
| 22:06.42 | aitor | golinux, the master of the meaningless gibberish |
| 22:06.43 | Venker | ok, thanks, I'll remain where I am :-) |
| 22:06.48 | aitor | need to go |
| 22:07.32 | msiism | just discovered a misplaced comma in his bug report :( |
| 22:07.33 | golinux | Wow! A drive by insult from aitor . . . |
| 22:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | a for (( x=0; x<10; x++ ); do echo -e "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n"; done overkill-"erases" my console scrollback by factor 2 |
| 22:08.10 | golinux | Venker: Probably safest. |
| 22:09.01 | NewGnuGuy | DocScrutinizer05: What are you trying to do with all those newlines? |
| 22:09.20 | golinux | msiism: Shouldn;t this sentence be "without"? |
| 22:09.22 | Venker | In my desktops, I usually used testing release when I was in Debian |
| 22:09.28 | golinux | " * crash the X server running on VT1, leaving you with a functional CLI |
| 22:09.29 | golinux | or |
| 22:09.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | NewGnuGuy: flush console scrollback buffer |
| 22:09.49 | msiism | golinux: no. it's correct. |
| 22:10.03 | msiism | golinux: it just crashed X. |
| 22:10.15 | golinux | Ah OK. |
| 22:10.19 | NewGnuGuy | And what does that get you? |
| 22:10.56 | golinux | Venker: Debian Beowulf packages are contaminated with systemd. They7 need cleansing |
| 22:11.31 | Venker | golinux: that's a good point ^_^U |
| 22:11.32 | golinux | before they will be functional in Devuan |
| 22:11.47 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: i think you should really add your thoughts on solving the clear_console problem to that bug report, imo. |
| 22:11.48 | golinux | It is THE point |
| 22:11.59 | golinux | ;) |
| 22:12.10 | Venker | systemd is Faber Excomunicata |
| 22:12.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: those suggestions are really not worth adding to a bug report, and particularly not when I need to create an account to do so |
| 22:13.22 | *** join/#devuan nacelle (nacelle@li229-74.members.linode.com) |
| 22:13.56 | golinux | All you need us an email address to file a bug report. |
| 22:14.17 | golinux | Maybe you don't do email? |
| 22:14.30 | golinux | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 22:14.43 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: also it's really easy to do, since the bug has it's own e-mail address. |
| 22:15.07 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 22:16.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if anything I'd add the chanlog URL to the ticket, but trying to do so I realized somebody removed the madatory (by freenode policy) note in topic where to find chanlogs |
| 22:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~logs |
| 22:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | !logs |
| 22:17.08 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23devuan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 22:17.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much |
| 22:17.37 | *** join/#devuan aqu4 (~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen/bot/aqu4) |
| 22:17.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | [0__0]: help |
| 22:17.48 | [0__0] | Available plugins: bangmotivate, help, last_seen, ping, logger (https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/help/) |
| 22:18.14 | msiism | well, your choice. it's just a but cumbersome to have to fish out stuff from irc logs, imo. |
| 22:18.22 | msiism | s/but/bit/ |
| 22:20.15 | KatolaZ | Venker: there is no systemd package in beowulf |
| 22:20.29 | KatolaZ | but several packages need to be rebuilt |
| 22:20.34 | KatolaZ | maybe you don't need them |
| 22:20.43 | KatolaZ | but if you do, please don't complain :) |
| 22:20.59 | Venker | thanks, KatolaZ |
| 22:21.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | feel free to add https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2018-05-13/?msg=100020727&page=3 |
| 22:21.02 | KatolaZ | np |
| 22:21.05 | *** join/#devuan Scartozzo__ (~flavio@2-238-140-4.ip244.fastwebnet.it) |
| 22:21.14 | *** mode/#devuan [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:21.32 | KatolaZ | Venker: don't want to scare you, just to avoid high expectations on Beowulf |
| 22:21.42 | KatolaZ | it will be usable soon, IMHO |
| 22:22.28 | *** topic/#devuan by DocScrutinizer05 -> Latest (2018-05-10): ASCII 2.0.0 release candidate is out! http://tinyurl.com/y9pta5vm || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
| 22:22.40 | *** mode/#devuan [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:29.07 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@unaffiliated/alexlikerock) |
| 22:36.20 | mlsmith | fsmithred, msiism: the wallpaper should work if you change the base color of the desktop - not just the brightness. :-) |
| 22:38.44 | *** join/#devuan FriendlyMan (~IceChat9@174-21-92-3.tukw.qwest.net) |
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| 22:43.10 | mlsmith | fsmithred, msiism: or did Xfce remove the colors too? https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/refracta/refracta-chameleon-wallpaper-t629.html#p5959 |
| 22:43.18 | NewGnuGuy | Just read the whole scrollback about clear_console. :-/ |
| 22:43.48 | msiism | mlsmith: i have no idea, i'm just using openbox... |
| 22:44.00 | mlsmith | fsmithred: wow, I fee like crap now...apparently I lost those files during some file cleanup at some point. Did you save them by chance? |
| 22:44.09 | mlsmith | msiism: Same :-) |
| 22:44.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | NewGnuGuy: hm? |
| 22:44.34 | NewGnuGuy | Sounds like a mess |
| 22:45.44 | fsmithred | mlsmith, yes, I have them. I'll email them to you. |
| 22:45.55 | fsmithred | and I'll try the bg color |
| 22:46.00 | fsmithred | pretty sure that's still there |
| 22:46.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's simple to fix though, most simple fix is "sudo rm ~root/.bash_logout" |
| 22:46.36 | mlsmith | fsmithred: Oh phew, thank goodness...thanks for that. I need to be more careful. |
| 22:47.34 | golinux | DocScrutinizer05: Are you aware that there is no longer a search function on botbot? |
| 22:47.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, noticed it, though it was konqueror to blame |
| 22:48.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought* |
| 22:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty nasty "improvement" |
| 22:49.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | who owns that bot? |
| 22:49.26 | golinux | Their database is too big to handle searches. |
| 22:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy |
| 22:49.36 | golinux | so they shut it down. |
| 22:49.49 | golinux | @Quite a few months ago |
| 22:50.19 | golinux | fsmithred: Since when did you re-enable tapatalk? |
| 22:51.54 | golinux | unfortunately I deleted my nice styling |
| 22:52.41 | golinux | It's in their git issues IIRC |
| 22:53.00 | golinux | the botbot thing that is |
| 22:53.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | can grep through a 54111732 bytes in less than a 0.1s http://paste.opensuse.org/45705923 |
| 22:54.07 | *** join/#devuan matlock (~matlock@71-92-46-112.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com) |
| 22:54.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I don't really buy that "database too large" |
| 22:54.29 | Venker | see you! :-) |
| 22:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | they are prolly running a RDBMS, indexing all lexems delimted space of all channels in one single table. Then yes, that gets nasty |
| 22:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | admittedly povbot sucks on search as well, nfc why |
| 22:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ |
| 22:59.51 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-13.home.otenet.gr) |
| 23:00.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | takes 2 minutes and two tries to do a search I did in <0.1s above |
| 23:01.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | even first time when disk IO slowed it down, it was <1s until the 54MB got buffered |
| 23:01.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly they implemented "grep" in perl ;-P |
| 23:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, seems somebody else tried a search before me, during last few minutes. povbot came up with the result in <10s :-D |
| 23:03.25 | fsmithred | golinux, I did not re-enable tapatalk, but last time I was there, I noticed you can now read the posts. |
| 23:03.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually >>100 matches in 294 log files with 69960 lines (7.3 seconds).<< |
| 23:04.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=systemd |
| 23:04.31 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-56-115.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 23:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe time devuan gets its own (log)bot? |
| 23:08.54 | mlsmith | DocScrutinizer05: have you played around with WebAssumbly at all? I wonder what that would do for speed. |
| 23:09.08 | mlsmith | WebAssembly* |
| 23:10.04 | fsmithred | chameleon wallpaper works with changing the desktop color |
| 23:10.59 | mlsmith | Nice! |
| 23:11.32 | fsmithred | good. I included those files in the new refracta beta isos |
| 23:11.38 | mlsmith | fsmithred: I got your email - thank you. |
| 23:11.40 | Uberius | What is the name of the Xfce file manager? |
| 23:11.45 | fsmithred | thunar |
| 23:11.53 | Uberius | fsmithred, thanks! |
| 23:13.06 | fsmithred | I guess I should include some instructions |
| 23:15.32 | mlsmith | fsmithred: If you kept the svg then you can upscale the image even more (for really large screens) without any degradation of quality |
| 23:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: nope, never heard of |
| 23:16.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | mlsmith: ^^^ |
| 23:16.18 | fsmithred | I don't see any svg files |
| 23:16.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | mlsmith: note that neither botnot nor povbot are owned by me |
| 23:17.17 | mlsmith | fsmithred: I had posted one in that same tapatalk thread - sadly I don't have that anymore either |
| 23:17.37 | fsmithred | I do |
| 23:18.16 | mlsmith | I thought you just said you didn't. lol |
| 23:18.20 | fsmithred | you posted a link to the images? |
| 23:18.27 | fsmithred | or they are contained in the messages? |
| 23:18.40 | fsmithred | I have a copy of all the messages from the forum on my hard drive |
| 23:19.00 | mlsmith | Oh, yeah I linked to it on my pCloud account the files are no longer there |
| 23:19.06 | mlsmith | Won't do any good now |
| 23:19.31 | mlsmith | Luckily you snagged the png files though |
| 23:19.51 | mlsmith | I could always remake the svg though |
| 23:20.28 | fsmithred | checking to see if svgs are in the iso |
| 23:20.59 | fsmithred | nope |
| 23:21.44 | mlsmith | It's all good - thanks for checking. I can remake it someday if you want larger ones. |
| 23:23.52 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 23:24.36 | mlsmith | No problem |
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| 23:31.17 | *** part/#devuan msiism (~msiism@200116b845c68900ee086bfffe1ced28.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
