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| 00:19.01 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release | This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | off-topic conversation in #debianfork please | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
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| 03:27.27 | xrogaan | which one is better, info or texinfo? |
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| 03:29.11 | NewGnuGuy | xrogaan: I believe info is the viewer program and texinfo is the format. |
| 03:30.12 | NewGnuGuy | xrogaan: If you want the viewer, install the info package. |
| 03:31.26 | xrogaan | right |
| 03:31.57 | xrogaan | trying to find out which key on my keyboard is equivalent to \e[2~ |
| 03:32.14 | xrogaan | I did it by mistake, can't find it back again. |
| 03:32.40 | xrogaan | it's the quote-insert in inputirc |
| 03:32.48 | xrogaan | inputrc* |
| 03:35.16 | xrogaan | this emacs thing is nonsense. |
| 03:36.39 | xrogaan | I'm probably wrong, quote insert doesn't do what I think it does. |
| 03:38.45 | gnarface | what are you actually trying to do? |
| 03:38.59 | xrogaan | insert escaped quotes \"\" |
| 03:39.14 | xrogaan | I'm not sure if it is something I did though. |
| 03:39.57 | gnarface | hmm. doesn't seem difficult, but i can't tell you off the top of my head. in the same situation i'd use the query-replace-regexp feature (regular expression search&replace) |
| 03:40.13 | gnarface | i'd use that to escape the quotes on a second pass |
| 03:40.32 | gnarface | that's in theory (in actuality this is a job for the database client to handle) |
| 03:41.44 | gnarface | but i've done similar types of search&replace as well as more complex ones that way |
| 03:43.00 | gnarface | but for example if you're just doing this to sanitize the data before stuffing it into a database with php you should be using mysql_real_escape_string() |
| 03:43.22 | xrogaan | no, I mean, in a bash input |
| 03:43.34 | xrogaan | bash shell? |
| 03:43.39 | gnarface | yea |
| 03:43.58 | gnarface | emacs kinda has it's own flavor of regexp and it's a little extra wordy but it gets the job done |
| 03:44.26 | xrogaan | I hit some combination of keys and my " transformed into \" |
| 03:45.26 | xrogaan | probably not what happened |
| 03:45.41 | xrogaan | because I can't find a feature that would do that. |
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| 04:28.55 | Tashtari | Hey all. Hopefully this question isn't too over-common, but I'm curious. What is the difference between devuan and debian with an apt rule that prohibits the installation of systemd? (And systemd uninstalled in favor of sysvinit) |
| 04:29.27 | xrogaan | some packages needs to be redone to properly remove systemd dependencies. |
| 04:30.07 | Tashtari | xrogaan: What's an example of such a package? |
| 04:30.22 | furrywolf | on debian, if you prevent the installation of systemd, a couple hundred packages either won't install or won't function. |
| 04:30.34 | furrywolf | gnome is one of the big ones, xfce,... |
| 04:31.41 | Tashtari | xfce, really? Huh. |
| 04:31.58 | xrogaan | Devuan makes extra sure your system will function without systemd. You can do it yourself, but that's IMHO extra (and unnecessary) work. |
| 04:32.01 | furrywolf | to fix this, devuan devs rebuild them without systemd requirements, which can be as easy as a couple configure flags, or major patching. |
| 04:32.38 | furrywolf | if I remember right, xfce will install without systemd, but you'll have no power management and some other stuff breaks. I don't remember the exact issues with it. gnome is uninstallable. |
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| 04:33.03 | Tashtari | Gnome I expected... that seems to be the major thing in bed with systemd. |
| 04:35.13 | furrywolf | devuan also has to maintain packages that debian has stopped maintaining because systemd provides replacement functionality. I can't remember which ones offhand, though. |
| 04:36.27 | Tashtari | I see. All right, thanks, everyone. :) |
| 04:36.44 | Tashtari | It'd be neat to see this question added to an FAQ of some kind... that is, if it hasn't already. |
| 04:37.09 | furrywolf | https://devuan.org/os/packages/list/forked-from-debian |
| 04:37.55 | furrywolf | that's an old list, I think... that is, I don't think it's generated off the current version. |
| 04:38.35 | furrywolf | yes, it's horribly out of date. |
| 04:38.48 | furrywolf | and I can't figure out how to get a list of devuan-patched stuff from the new verison. oh well. |
| 04:40.12 | furrywolf | bbl, time for me to get to bed |
| 04:40.20 | furrywolf | curls up on golinux's feet |
| 04:40.32 | Tashtari | Thanks for the information. |
| 04:42.43 | golinux | Tashtari: http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 04:43.21 | KatolaZ | furrywolf: pkginfo.devuan.org |
| 04:43.27 | KatolaZ | search for "+devuan" |
| 04:43.36 | KatolaZ | you'll get the list you are looking for |
| 04:44.27 | golinux | That too. Was coming up next |
| 04:44.44 | Tashtari | Ah, much better.. |
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| 05:28.06 | hoshineko | hello |
| 05:28.29 | hoshineko | does devuan come with nonfree firmware? |
| 05:30.03 | KatolaZ | hoshineko: Devuan install media contain non-free firmware |
| 05:30.13 | KatolaZ | but it's installed only if your wifi card needs it |
| 05:30.23 | KatolaZ | (obviously) |
| 05:30.41 | hoshineko | I see, that's good |
| 05:33.33 | *** part/#devuan Tashtari (~tashtari@unaffiliated/tashtari) |
| 05:34.13 | hoshineko | also, this is not strictly devuan-related, but is there a way I can modify the steps in the the installer?, there's a specific point where the debian installer hangs on my machine so i always have to skip the "select and install software" step |
| 05:35.04 | hoshineko | though i can just run tasksel later anyways |
| 05:36.44 | KatolaZ | hoshineko: you can use the expert install |
| 05:37.36 | KatolaZ | (the short answer is: no, you can't modify the steps that are taken by the standard installer without rebuilding the corresponsing d-i components, and d-i) |
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| 05:55.07 | hotaronohanako | hi guys |
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| 06:42.22 | xHire | hi, Iâm trying out ascii on a raspberry pi. I really like the system so far. :c) however, even when there is no load (i.e., clean system), the board heats quite a lot (thermal_zone0 currently says 57 °C) â I tested it without SD card for comparison (i.e., nothing booted) and it was cold. has anyone heard about issues like this by any chance? |
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| 07:25.10 | golinux | xHire: Try #devuab-arm |
| 07:25.28 | xHire | golinux: thanks, will try! :c) |
| 07:25.41 | golinux | devuan of course |
| 07:25.47 | golinux | typo |
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| 08:04.05 | longwayfromhome | hello |
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| 12:00.17 | filipdevuan | so i had fedora for a bit i looked up system monitor 55% memory ram used while nothing was on compared to devuan that uses 12% |
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| 12:05.07 | filipdevuan | yeah so bumblebee and linux-firmware and everything is perfect, iv been thinking about starting my own website about linux gaming for a while |
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| 12:12.56 | gnarface | that's on ceres, filipdevuan? |
| 12:12.59 | gnarface | or ascii? |
| 12:13.03 | gnarface | or redhat? :-p |
| 12:13.11 | filipdevuan | redhat fedora |
| 12:13.21 | gnarface | did you check to see if the same works on ceres? |
| 12:13.30 | filipdevuan | whats ceres? :P |
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| 12:15.40 | gnarface | devuan unstable |
| 12:16.02 | gnarface | well, corresponding to debian sid anyway |
| 12:16.03 | filipdevuan | nah i use normal ascii its stretch i think |
| 12:16.17 | gnarface | yea ascii corresponds to stretch |
| 12:17.46 | filipdevuan | yeah im happy now :) |
| 12:17.57 | gnarface | but my experience with gaming on linux using nvidia cards was that sid and ceres improved compatibility |
| 12:17.58 | filipdevuan | ditching windows gaming for linux gaming ;P |
| 12:18.08 | filipdevuan | really |
| 12:18.17 | gnarface | if you check the versions of what redhat is using against ascii and ceres you might see the culprit |
| 12:18.36 | filipdevuan | why u mention redhat |
| 12:18.37 | gnarface | something older in ascii, may matter |
| 12:18.59 | gnarface | it doesn't matter |
| 12:19.02 | gnarface | what matters is you're happy |
| 12:19.26 | filipdevuan | yeah i had fedora yesterday i was happy and then i checked system monitor while no app was running |
| 12:19.39 | filipdevuan | 55% memory ram used and i thought omg it has to be a joke it's like on windows!! |
| 12:19.57 | filipdevuan | on dvuan i have few apps opened and browser and its just 26% |
| 12:20.29 | filipdevuan | yeah i wanna try something new this is why i wanna start discover unknown on linux ;P |
| 12:20.53 | gnarface | you check out steam on it yet? |
| 12:20.58 | gnarface | there's a summer sale going |
| 12:21.06 | gnarface | lots of native games on sale for super cheap |
| 12:21.16 | filipdevuan | im poor ;D |
| 12:21.22 | filipdevuan | i am on itch.io now |
| 12:21.23 | gnarface | oh, right, sorry |
| 12:21.30 | gnarface | oh, but there is free-to-play stuff on steam too |
| 12:21.41 | gnarface | some of it actually good |
| 12:21.42 | filipdevuan | was thinking about installing dota 2 on steam but i dont trust steam so i wonder if its really worth it... |
| 12:21.59 | filipdevuan | iv just tried two games on itch that use unity engine |
| 12:22.05 | filipdevuan | remind me of minecraft its quite cool |
| 12:22.41 | filipdevuan | i play some survival game where i am a viking in the forest and build everything from scratch like on minecraft, ill test more later now im meeting my friend in a minute gosh ;P |
| 12:22.59 | filipdevuan | itch is like steam but for indie games |
| 12:23.35 | filipdevuan | you know i feel like creating my own website about linux gaming and while i dont like steam i dont think writing about games that r available on steam is a good idea |
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| 12:28.37 | xHire | the viking game sounds a bit like https://www.onehouronelife.com/ |
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| 12:32.09 | filipdevuan | the funny thing is that i have got friends who play games all the time on windows anyway they use steam but funny fact is they hate gabe newell from valve and i found it funny i was like you know i dont really like steam and they were like yeah this gebe is a wanker and steam games arent worth anything |
| 12:32.31 | filipdevuan | i was like oh so im not the only one who dislike steam |
| 12:33.33 | xHire | Iâm not really into supporting proprietary games so I ignore steam anyway ;c) |
| 12:34.16 | filipdevuan | yeah, i think you know steam is great and steam games are fun but i always feel like instead of spending my time playing games on steam all the time id rather develop software LOL |
| 12:35.37 | xHire | yes, thatâs what I do ^_^ (thatâs the only reason I didnât buy OHOL, because that would motivate me to play it :-D) |
| 12:37.49 | filipdevuan | i dont like to pay real money for digital stuff digital games digital software digital everything and its all digital because of steam nowadays ;/ |
| 12:38.58 | filipdevuan | ohol looks interesting |
| 12:39.01 | xHire | then get OHOL from github and compile it yourself. but you wonât be able to connect to the official server so youâll need to run your own, where youâll be the only player⦠|
| 12:46.03 | filipdevuan | yeah i may do ;P |
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| 13:08.53 | grillon | hi there |
| 13:10.20 | grillon | my X server works without DM but I don't know why. I have changed too much things :-/ |
| 13:10.36 | grillon | so I cannot return the info back sorry |
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| 13:21.37 | KatolaZ | grillon: it's in the release notes :) |
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| 14:50.59 | M0E-lnx | anyone know of a howto for libdevuansdk? |
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| 15:15.06 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: there is some minimal doc in the repo |
| 15:15.15 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: what do you need in particular? |
| 15:18.28 | M0E-lnx | KatolaZ, i was looking for general information on how to use it |
| 15:18.42 | M0E-lnx | there is not much docs on that |
| 15:18.55 | M0E-lnx | i'm reading the code to try to figure out what it does |
| 15:19.15 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: normally you won't use it directly |
| 15:19.22 | KatolaZ | rather through live-sdk |
| 15:19.26 | KatolaZ | or virtual-sdk |
| 15:19.28 | KatolaZ | or arm-sdk |
| 15:19.44 | M0E-lnx | I'm trying to re-pack my current install + config into an iso that I can re-deploy on another box |
| 15:19.56 | M0E-lnx | so am I looking at the wrong tool for that then? |
| 15:20.01 | KatolaZ | then you might want to have a look at virtual-sdk maybe |
| 15:20.09 | KatolaZ | which has stuff ready for that |
| 15:20.33 | KatolaZ | or live-sdk, if you need a live |
| 15:20.52 | KatolaZ | libdevuansdk is pretty low-level stuff |
| 15:21.05 | KatolaZ | those *-sdk provide a higher-level interface |
| 15:21.11 | M0E-lnx | ok |
| 15:21.15 | M0E-lnx | let me look at that |
| 15:21.18 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 15:21.25 | KatolaZ | shout if you need help |
| 15:22.21 | M0E-lnx | will do.. ty |
| 15:24.45 | KatolaZ | np |
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| 15:26.28 | fsmithred | repack current install sounds like a job for refractasnapshot |
| 15:26.41 | fsmithred | M0E-lnx, ^^^ |
| 15:30.12 | M0E-lnx | fsmithred, is that included in the devuan iso or an extra project? |
| 15:30.16 | M0E-lnx | i'm new to devuan btw |
| 15:30.20 | M0E-lnx | in case you can't tell yet |
| 15:30.21 | M0E-lnx | lol |
| 15:31.24 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: refractasnapshot is in Devuan's repos |
| 15:31.38 | M0E-lnx | ok lemme check that out |
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| 15:31.53 | KatolaZ | but that's mainly to create a live-cd |
| 15:31.57 | M0E-lnx | I did start with ascii minimal live and used refractainstaller |
| 15:32.02 | KatolaZ | from a runing system |
| 15:32.08 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 15:32.13 | KatolaZ | and it worked fine? |
| 15:32.16 | M0E-lnx | yes |
| 15:32.26 | KatolaZ | very good :) |
| 15:32.32 | M0E-lnx | I added packages to bring it to my liking and now want to pack it all up and re-deploy it |
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| 15:33.40 | KatolaZ | if by re-deploy ypu mean having a live system that you can install with refractainstaller, then use refractasnapshot |
| 15:34.00 | M0E-lnx | ok |
| 15:38.15 | fsmithred | back |
| 15:38.31 | M0E-lnx | wb |
| 15:38.49 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, is refractasnapshot-base installed in minimal-live? |
| 15:39.46 | M0E-lnx | what is the difference from installing from refractainstaller vs clicking the icon on the desktop and following the prompts? |
| 15:40.00 | fsmithred | desktop? |
| 15:40.14 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 15:40.16 | M0E-lnx | sort of like the ubuntus/debians do |
| 15:40.30 | M0E-lnx | so, refracta is the TUI installer? |
| 15:40.39 | KatolaZ | no M0E-lnx |
| 15:40.43 | fsmithred | if you added a desktop and install refractainstaller-gui, then you can run a graphical version |
| 15:40.50 | KatolaZ | the install images have the standard debian installer |
| 15:40.58 | KatolaZ | slightly adaped by Devuan |
| 15:41.06 | KatolaZ | live images use refractainstaller |
| 15:41.16 | M0E-lnx | got ya |
| 15:42.37 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: yes, refractasnapshot-base in in minimal-live |
| 15:42.50 | KatolaZ | has been there since when it was "unofficial" ;) |
| 15:42.51 | fsmithred | thought so. thanks |
| 15:43.49 | KatolaZ | fsmithred, from the README: |
| 15:43.53 | KatolaZ | "5) == Acknowledgements == |
| 15:43.53 | KatolaZ | I thank the refracta team for providing refractasnapshot and |
| 15:43.54 | KatolaZ | refractainstaller. |
| 15:43.56 | KatolaZ | " |
| 15:43.58 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 15:44.04 | fsmithred | :) |
| 15:44.20 | M0E-lnx | do you guys know if devuan uses a build farm for producing packages? |
| 15:44.30 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: what do you mean? |
| 15:44.42 | M0E-lnx | I come from Slack, where everything is build manually |
| 15:44.49 | KatolaZ | ci.devuan.org |
| 15:45.03 | M0E-lnx | I wonder if devuan has an automated build system that accepts build jobs and spits out packages |
| 15:45.16 | KatolaZ | the builds are still issued manually, for convenience |
| 15:45.37 | KatolaZ | yes M0E-lnx |
| 15:45.42 | KatolaZ | this is what ci.devuan.org does |
| 15:45.46 | M0E-lnx | ahh |
| 15:45.47 | M0E-lnx | nice |
| 15:47.54 | M0E-lnx | I have to learn how packaging works for .deb |
| 15:49.02 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: is there any package that you need and does not exist as a .deb? |
| 15:49.30 | M0E-lnx | probably not |
| 15:49.40 | M0E-lnx | .deb is pretty extensive |
| 15:49.55 | M0E-lnx | but for like adding my own customizations to an existing package |
| 15:49.57 | M0E-lnx | and things like that |
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| 15:55.52 | fsmithred | rebuilding packages for yourself is pretty easy. Sorting through all the documentation is not so easy. |
| 15:56.01 | M0E-lnx | seen that |
| 15:56.26 | M0E-lnx | it's like debian wont tell you how to get something done without giving you the packaging 101 which includes all the details |
| 15:56.27 | M0E-lnx | lol |
| 15:56.36 | fsmithred | yup |
| 15:56.57 | M0E-lnx | which is fine... I'm just used to knocking things out real quick coming from slack |
| 15:57.20 | fsmithred | it's good to have quick-start instructions, too |
| 15:57.31 | M0E-lnx | never really been a ubuntu person, used pure debian before, but not a big fan of systemd |
| 15:57.37 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: reality is that the whole packaging pipeline is not that easy to learn |
| 15:58.08 | M0E-lnx | true that |
| 15:58.18 | M0E-lnx | been seeing it for years, never really paid attention to learning it though |
| 15:58.22 | KatolaZ | not impossible, but it requires a bit more effort than writing a port, so to speak |
| 15:58.41 | KatolaZ | once you get it, it's pretty straightforwardd |
| 15:58.49 | KatolaZ | s/d$// |
| 15:58.58 | M0E-lnx | devuan is becoming a new favorite for me, so I guess i'll have to invest the time to dig into it |
| 15:59.46 | M0E-lnx | brb.... lunch time |
| 16:01.19 | fsmithred | lunch? Wow, I'm actually talking to someone in my timezone. |
| 16:01.28 | KatolaZ | see fsmithred |
| 16:01.31 | KatolaZ | you are not alone :D |
| 16:01.34 | fsmithred | lol |
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| 16:20.05 | james1138_ | Question. Any suggestions for a system report application that tell what hardware and software such as kernel is in use?? |
| 16:20.52 | ivanshmakov | james1138_: Like $ uname ? |
| 16:21.21 | james1138_ | I would much prefer GUI rather than terminal. |
| 16:21.24 | fsmithred | hwinfo or lshw give a lot of hardware info. If you want graphical, hardinfo |
| 16:21.25 | KatolaZ | uname -a |
| 16:21.51 | KatolaZ | or neofetch |
| 16:22.15 | james1138_ | Hardinfo. I shall look at that. |
| 16:22.40 | fsmithred | shows up in menu as 'system benchmark and profiler' or something like that |
| 16:23.39 | golinux | System Profiler and Benchmark ;) |
| 16:24.35 | fsmithred | thanks, I'm kinda out of it today |
| 16:24.47 | fsmithred | recovering from dental work |
| 16:30.16 | golinux | Ouch. You and Centurion |
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| 16:33.09 | james1138_ | HardInfo works Great!! Big thanks Fsmithred!! |
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| 16:38.55 | fsmithred | It was International Tooth Week? |
| 17:00.08 | M0E-lnx | fsmithred, US/Central... where you at? |
| 17:00.18 | fsmithred | massachusetts |
| 17:00.22 | fsmithred | you had early lunch |
| 17:00.31 | M0E-lnx | yes... I luch @ 11 |
| 17:00.42 | M0E-lnx | i'm in TX |
| 17:01.08 | fsmithred | not close at all |
| 17:01.15 | M0E-lnx | nep |
| 17:01.21 | M0E-lnx | 's/e/ew/g' |
| 17:05.02 | M0E-lnx | refractasnapshot worked like a charm btw |
| 17:05.03 | M0E-lnx | ty guys |
| 17:05.57 | M0E-lnx | I wonder why this tool is not more obvious on the shipped ISO |
| 17:08.12 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: have you read the README? |
| 17:08.14 | KatolaZ | under /root |
| 17:08.39 | KatolaZ | i think refractainstaller and refractasnapshot are mentioned in the live images |
| 17:08.47 | M0E-lnx | I'm sure I have.... that's how I found the refractainstaller |
| 17:09.01 | KatolaZ | oki |
| 17:09.03 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 17:09.13 | KatolaZ | so we should probably put them in a more prominent position |
| 17:12.01 | M0E-lnx | or document them more clearly I guess |
| 17:12.18 | M0E-lnx | or reference them in an INSTALL.TXT file |
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| 18:03.57 | M0E-lnx | Do you guys know if FF quantum is in the repos? |
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| 18:07.42 | M0E-lnx | apt seems to list esr only |
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| 19:17.11 | NewGnuGuy | M0E-lnx: Greetings, fellow Texan! |
| 19:18.23 | NewGnuGuy | Whereabout in our great state do are you? |
| 19:20.40 | M0E-lnx | greetings NewGnuGuy |
| 19:20.46 | M0E-lnx | HOU area |
| 19:22.29 | NewGnuGuy | Cool, I'm up near Dallas |
| 19:22.53 | M0E-lnx | nice |
| 19:23.13 | M0E-lnx | Got a buddy that just moved to Frisco |
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| 22:01.09 | icebreaker | hey guys, i am trying to compile a linux-kernel but i dont have the make-kpkg program and i cant find it in repo, where can i get it? |
| 22:09.26 | gnarface | icebreaker: it's in the package called "kernel-package" |
| 22:10.45 | icebreaker | i have checked that but problem is there is no package called kernel-package |
| 22:12.14 | gnarface | hmmmmm.... in ascii? are you sure your sources.list is correct? |
| 22:13.21 | gnarface | oh hmmm |
| 22:13.30 | gnarface | i'm not seeing it in ascii right now either. i wonder what's up with that... |
| 22:13.59 | NewGnuGuy | Is it a virtual package? |
| 22:14.22 | gnarface | i don't think so |
| 22:14.24 | icebreaker | ah now i can see it |
| 22:14.39 | gnarface | it's back? |
| 22:14.41 | icebreaker | something was not correct with sources |
| 22:14.43 | icebreaker | thx |
| 22:16.52 | gnarface | hmmm. glad it works for you, but it's still missing in ascii for me |
| 22:16.54 | gnarface | that's troubling |
| 22:16.59 | gnarface | something must be going on with the mirrors... |
| 22:17.22 | gnarface | maybe it just got removed and then replaced and it's taking some time to propagate |
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| 22:18.43 | icebreaker | can i somehow install the package without ~900mb latex dependency? |
| 22:19.41 | gnarface | i don't know, but i think that's needed to build the kernel documentation |
| 22:20.02 | gnarface | or something like that |
| 22:20.17 | icebreaker | great taht will take hours with my internet connection :D |
| 22:20.32 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 22:21.15 | gnarface | icebreaker: did you try adding the "--no-install-recommends" command-line option to apt-get? |
| 22:21.20 | gnarface | if that doesn't work i've got nothing |
| 22:21.39 | icebreaker | sweet ! thx |
| 22:21.49 | icebreaker | only 17 mb now |
| 22:21.54 | gnarface | (even if that works you may still need latex to actually build the kernel package) |
| 22:22.01 | icebreaker | that saved me like 3 hours, thanks |
| 22:22.10 | gnarface | np |
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