| 00:00.43 | gnarface | the stuff from backports isn't all tested to work together |
| 00:01.28 | gnarface | *usually* it's only there to provide fixes that break expected behavior |
| 00:02.18 | roundduckman-dev | Fuck, even after changing priority: https://pastebin.com/hPVz3fVB |
| 00:02.32 | roundduckman-dev | BTW, I didn't pull off a dist/full-upgrade |
| 00:02.40 | roundduckman-dev | with backports |
| 00:02.52 | roundduckman-dev | Just to make the automatic package picking easier |
| 00:03.06 | gnarface | you did remember to `apt-get update` after changing the sources.list every time though, right? |
| 00:03.29 | roundduckman-dev | Yeah. |
| 00:04.03 | roundduckman-dev | Do I need to reboot to recognize a change in /etc/apt/preferences,d? |
| 00:04.08 | gnarface | no |
| 00:04.11 | gnarface | but |
| 00:04.26 | gnarface | your last paste |
| 00:04.35 | roundduckman-dev | Yeah? |
| 00:04.38 | gnarface | refers to 375.82-1~deb9u1 |
| 00:04.44 | gnarface | that's a downgrade from what you were trying earlier |
| 00:04.50 | roundduckman-dev | Yep, even after the priority change |
| 00:04.57 | gnarface | so i suspect your priority change is being ignored |
| 00:05.25 | roundduckman-dev | Apt tries to use those crummy older packages |
| 00:05.46 | roundduckman-dev | That's why I asked if I needed a reboot |
| 00:05.53 | gnarface | you don't need to reboot |
| 00:05.57 | roundduckman-dev | Ok. |
| 00:06.30 | gnarface | look you're making this harder on both of us than it has to be |
| 00:06.33 | gnarface | please complete the initial test |
| 00:06.47 | roundduckman-dev | What's the inital test again? |
| 00:07.06 | gnarface | apt-get -t ascii-backports install [every single nvidia package] |
| 00:07.21 | gnarface | you honestly may have to list all 20 or so of them |
| 00:07.21 | roundduckman-dev | Alright |
| 00:07.39 | gnarface | i think you're supposed to change preferences for backports with pinning |
| 00:07.44 | gnarface | i don't know if you did it right |
| 00:07.50 | gnarface | and i don't want to figure that out |
| 00:08.02 | gnarface | and it isn't necessary anyway |
| 00:08.08 | gnarface | and it's also a bad idea to begin with |
| 00:08.27 | gnarface | oh |
| 00:08.51 | gnarface | but while you're in there, if you're using an Intel CPU you should probably grab their updated microcode package, for security fixes :-/ |
| 00:09.09 | gnarface | it will also be in non-free |
| 00:09.15 | gnarface | it shouldn't depend on anything though |
| 00:10.28 | gnarface | brb |
| 00:16.41 | roundduckman-dev | https://pastebin.com/1m1ukacE |
| 00:16.49 | roundduckman-dev | It's not workinng great |
| 00:20.20 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@208.53.50.136) |
| 00:20.20 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release | This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | off-topic conversation in #debianfork please | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
| 00:20.21 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:20.45 | gnarface | i guess that means it may be more than 20 packages actually... |
| 00:21.05 | gnarface | i'm counting 61 of them here :( |
| 00:21.40 | abcabc__ | context? |
| 00:22.08 | roundduckman-dev | update: https://pastebin.com/ZnZJRaGh |
| 00:22.09 | gnarface | abcabc__: he's having trouble shoehorning bumblebee&nvidia drivers from backports into an ascii install |
| 00:23.34 | roundduckman-dev | I feel like to quit and do either a reinstall, nuke everything into the bare minimum and reinstall everything manually like Arch, or use Void Linux |
| 00:23.36 | gnarface | roundduckman-dev: there are a couple places where you have to make a choice between a "glvnd" or regular version of two packages. i've been picking the non-glvnd ones |
| 00:24.09 | gnarface | roundduckman-dev: how did you get this install to begin with? i'll admit it's usually not this much trouble for people unless they've got a heavily mixed set of packages from different distros/versions |
| 00:25.09 | gnarface | some of the behavior here you've seen could be indicative of stray packages from an older debian upgrade lingering around |
| 00:25.29 | gnarface | i still think it'll eventually work if you keep adding packages to the list though |
| 00:26.00 | gnarface | depending on how much bandwidth you actually have it really COULD be faster to start over from scratch if you know how to make a minimal install properly |
| 00:26.10 | gnarface | you can do that in about 20 minutes with a debian/devuan installer |
| 00:26.41 | gnarface | but like i said, i do think you're getting discouraged with plan "A" too early, but it is a gamble either way |
| 00:27.45 | gnarface | that filipdevuan guy got his working, you can too |
| 00:29.54 | roundduckman-dev | I'll show you my apt history: https://pastebin.com/QMU976Wx |
| 00:30.00 | roundduckman-dev | part of it at elast |
| 00:30.04 | roundduckman-dev | part of it at least |
| 00:30.15 | roundduckman-dev | Nothing too personal yet |
| 00:30.43 | gnarface | it probably should be mentioned i always call "apt-get" and "apt-cache" directly |
| 00:31.07 | gnarface | if "apt" behaves any differently in the way it manages dependencies that would also be an unknown variable to me |
| 00:31.08 | roundduckman-dev | Those logs apply even with apt-get |
| 00:31.28 | roundduckman-dev | Not apt-cache as it's a search though |
| 00:32.12 | roundduckman-dev | I guess "apt" in this case is "APT," the proper term, not apt-cache |
| 00:32.13 | gnarface | sometimes when you see it seeming to remove then re-add the same package, what is probably happening is it's removing a conflicting version from an older install (perhaps a previous use of jessie-backports before upgrading left stray packages behind - that can cause some of these types of complications) |
| 00:32.18 | roundduckman-dev | I guess "apt" in this case is "APT," the proper term, not "apt" |
| 00:33.25 | roundduckman-dev | But yeah, any strange indications in the log, like a crappily installed file that's tripping the package manager? |
| 00:33.58 | gnarface | well this last paste looks like you tried to manually kill it with keyboard escape sequences while it was actually working |
| 00:34.03 | gnarface | so that's a problem |
| 00:34.25 | gnarface | seemed to complete though anyway |
| 00:35.33 | roundduckman-dev | I didn't try to kill anything, no ctrl+c. Sometimes the log splits a section in term.log while using one command |
| 00:35.34 | gnarface | oh i see, then you continue and several more installs complete |
| 00:35.43 | gnarface | no i don't see anything in this log that doesn't look like a self-inflicted problem |
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| 00:36.02 | gnarface | btw you will need dkms |
| 00:36.05 | gnarface | i see you just purged that |
| 00:36.08 | roundduckman-dev | Yeah, got that |
| 00:36.31 | roundduckman-dev | I purged it along with anything Nvidia initally, then reinstalled dkms |
| 00:36.58 | gnarface | where you see a conflict between two packages named "*nvidia*" and "*mesa*" choose the nvidia one |
| 00:37.15 | roundduckman-dev | So I must delete anything mesa? |
| 00:37.26 | gnarface | no, most of it is harmless |
| 00:37.39 | gnarface | just a few packages that will be in direct conflict with corresponding nvidia ones must be replaced |
| 00:37.55 | gnarface | libgl1-nvidia-glx and libgl1-mesa-glx i think is a prime example |
| 00:38.24 | gnarface | (and make sure to remember you'll want libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 *and* libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386) |
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| 00:41.59 | roundduckman-dev | You know what, thank you for your help, but considering I still have a somewhat functional system, I'll reinstall |
| 00:42.28 | roundduckman-dev | I havrn't done much, and I can't delete the mesa stuff due to more dependency hell |
| 00:42.55 | roundduckman-dev | I can just download etcher and the iso and reinstall Devuan |
| 00:45.49 | gnarface | etcher??? |
| 00:46.13 | gnarface | dear lord don't use that malware shit |
| 00:46.19 | gnarface | that's half of your problem right there |
| 00:46.25 | gnarface | use `dd` or `cp` |
| 00:46.34 | gnarface | hell use cat even if it floats your boat |
| 00:46.37 | gnarface | use anything from the repo |
| 00:46.54 | gnarface | don't use some web-gen-2.0 driveby hack tool |
| 00:48.55 | gnarface | in general you should be highly suspicious of anyone trying to rebrand core OS functionality |
| 00:51.55 | roundduckman-dev | I use etcher because it also verifies, and I'm not that purist. I just like my core to be Unix-like, as that can lead to instability otherwise. If a side program crashes, I'd just throw it away. :/ |
| 00:52.07 | gnarface | dd verifies |
| 00:52.24 | roundduckman-dev | I thought it just unmercifully copies. :P |
| 00:52.57 | gnarface | well i mean at the end, it will tell you how many blocks were read and how many were written, so you can note any discrepancies |
| 00:53.29 | roundduckman-dev | dd is great BTW, just isn't my cup of tea. If it's yours though, more power to you, especially considering its power and simplity. |
| 00:53.51 | gnarface | i just really don't trust etcher and i'm trying to save you more hassle, that's all |
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| 00:54.26 | gnarface | at best we're talking about people who presume to be qualified to safely and securely write your data to flash that haven't heard of dd |
| 00:54.43 | gnarface | but what is far more likely is that they *have* heard of dd and have ulterior motives |
| 00:54.47 | roundduckman-dev | Ehh, I got lots of issues anyways. I mean, I can mention about how a use pulsea- |
| 00:54.54 | roundduckman-dev | *I |
| 00:55.06 | gnarface | heh |
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| 00:56.19 | roundduckman-dev | See ya, got to go somewhere anyways, will be back after reinstall |
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| 08:16.20 | KatolaZ | M0E-lnx: we need to update parse_alioth in d1h |
| 08:16.23 | KatolaZ | alioth is discontinued |
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| 12:07.55 | Digit | realised the manpage for flite says "-v" = "verbose", but in practice, that's for setting which voice to use (like "-v rms") |
| 12:09.04 | Digit | realises he's wrong |
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| 12:29.03 | furrymcgee | regarding gcc doc and https://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml . Do you use debian free software guideline in devuan and what is your position to GNU Free documentation license? |
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| 12:31.16 | roundduckman | Alright, with a fresh new system, how to install nvidia drivers from backports? |
| 12:31.57 | roundduckman | Alright gnarface, with a fresh new system, how to install nvidia drivers from backports? |
| 12:32.15 | roundduckman | Without screwing it up this time... ;) |
| 12:35.03 | gnarface | don't enable multiarch just yet that will confuse you |
| 12:35.39 | gnarface | start with `apt-get -t ascii-backports nvidia-driver libgl1-nvidia-glx` or else just follow that debian wiki page... |
| 12:35.42 | roundduckman | Well, I'd need it to install it properly to get Steam working, but I'll hold back if needed. |
| 12:36.22 | gnarface | easier to test with glxgears and glxinfo in 64-bit mode first |
| 12:36.28 | roundduckman | Also, I'm going to see if I can find a way to back shit up so if a screw up, I can quickly do a do-over |
| 12:38.10 | gnarface | that is a good idea |
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| 12:53.19 | roundduckman | gnarface, I'm backing up with some graphical tool I found that uses rsync. I'll get that done, then the fun will begin. :P (yeah, should've thought about that before entering here) |
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| 19:00.09 | roundduckman | Sorry about the huge delay, gnarface. I had to sleep (parents) and my laptop shutdown due to a dead battery. Stupid battery indicator. Here's my log when doing your command: https://pastebin.com/kBCDSj5U I installed some stuff, but I haven't touched drivers yet. :( |
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| 19:10.31 | roundduckman | going to reboot |
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| 20:00.51 | roundduckman_ | gnarface, I have some success by just installing bumblebee-nvidia, It might be that nvidia-driver is meant for desktops and bumblebee handles similar stuff, while also trying to install intel shit. |
| 20:01.15 | roundduckman_ | That said, I can't use optirun or primusrun to force using Nvidia GPU. |
| 20:01.45 | roundduckman_ | damn it |
| 20:05.02 | roundduckman_ | My problem was that the two packages are meant to conflict (due to also installing Mesa, which plain-jane Nvidia-driver hates), as I noticed, and if I only install Nvidia, the stupid driver doesn't work and I would need to reinstall |
| 20:05.36 | roundduckman_ | It doesn't work because I got a mobile 1050 ti |
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| 21:02.49 | DeeEff | Hey all, having some graphics / login problems related to logind I think. I get "logind integration requires -keeptty and -keeptty was not provided, disabling logind integration" |
| 21:03.14 | DeeEff | Wanted to know if there's a good way around this. |
| 21:03.28 | DeeEff | I want to use lightdm as my display manager, but it doesn't seem to be working |
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| 21:15.56 | golinux | DeeEff: Some windows managers are incompatible with certain DEs backend |
| 21:16.14 | golinux | Might be something in the release notes: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt |
| 21:17.41 | DeeEff | Yeah, but in the past I've always just used awesomewm with lightdm |
| 21:17.53 | DeeEff | Also this is ceres so ascii stuff may not be relevant |
| 21:20.43 | golinux | Very little work has been done on ceres yet. |
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| 21:34.08 | DeeEff | Oh wait, I didn't even have awesome installed from the last set of broken packages I fixed. |
| 21:34.10 | DeeEff | Wat |
| 21:34.26 | DeeEff | golinux: yeah, I actually downgraded to ascii, which was a failure, but then upgraded back to ceres |
| 21:35.27 | DeeEff | If there's a proper path to downgrade to ascii without it inheriting the same set of problems I already have I'm open to hearing about it |
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| 21:47.58 | DeeEff | Thinking my only shot at this point is to actually just reinstall from scratch. :/ |
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| 22:07.31 | roundduckman | Ok, I've been stuck for the last few days on trying to install Nvidia drivers for a mobile 1050 Ti. Gnarface helped a bit, but I do need some perspective from one who recently used Nvidia on Devuan on a laptop. I need help, I'm stuck and I end up having to load a new backup after each screw up that ends up in dependency hell. |
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| 22:35.13 | yellyfish | hey. i am kinda confused. i tried to install libsdl2-dev but it depends on libudev-dev. I have libeudev1 installed so i tried to also install the dev package for eudev but it need an older version? |
| 22:36.00 | yellyfish | it says it depends on libeudev1( = 3.2.2-13) but i have 3.2.5-1 |
| 22:39.17 | yellyfish | how do i downgrade and is it wierd that i need to? or am i doing something wrong? |
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| 22:55.46 | debdog | mayhap installing libudev-dev solves that. it's a transitional package so it should not actually change anything regarding e/udev |
| 22:57.18 | debdog | if not, what is the exact error message when attempting to install libsdl2-dev? |
| 23:01.11 | yellyfish | dependency conflict |
| 23:01.46 | yellyfish | The following packages have unmet dependencies: |
| 23:01.47 | yellyfish | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:01.49 | yellyfish | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
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| 23:08.09 | debdog | you have backports enabled? |
| 23:08.16 | yellyfish | yeah |
| 23:08.18 | debdog | oh |
| 23:08.23 | debdog | sorry, i am out |
| 23:09.59 | debdog | don't have an Ascii vm atm and I don't want to mess with my production system :/ |
| 23:10.11 | yellyfish | no problem :) |
| 23:10.27 | yellyfish | i am tinkering meanwhile to make it work |
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| 23:16.00 | gnarface | DeeEff: in order to preserve expected behavior from lets just call it "Debian Classic" a number of the limitations of the system are also inherited. downgrades not being a supported action is one of those, unfortunately. nothing is tested for downgrading. |
| 23:17.21 | gnarface | yellyfish: yea there's some tangle there you have to force out manually. for some people, just deleting the /etc/init.d/udev script worked, but before i heard about that i had to fix it by uninstalling the running kernel out from underneath the system briefly |
| 23:17.53 | DeeEff | gnarface: I think I've noticed this. Fortunately though, it can fix some issues. I had a dependency graph problem fro my initial ceres install (from back when devuan was barely even a mailing list topic) that persisted to present day. Downgrading actually fixed a _ton_ of issues and allowed me to use eudev and elogind instead of the systemd variants. |
| 23:17.59 | DeeEff | I managed to solve my issue by the way |
| 23:18.22 | gnarface | that roundduckman guy gets nearly there and panics and hoses it every time. if filipdevuan comes back and those two are both here at the same time, maybe try to get them to talk. they have similar optimus hardware |
| 23:18.24 | DeeEff | There's a (silent) kernel panic when you try to start X with Nvidia driver 390.67 with kernel 4.16.0-2 |
| 23:19.10 | DeeEff | Is a 650ti Optimus? |
| 23:19.58 | gnarface | sorry, no that wasn't to you, DeeEff, that was more just to the channel in general |
| 23:19.59 | DeeEff | I think it's partly that Nvidia hasn't updated their driver to support 4.16 yet, since the panic appears to come from the module |
| 23:20.04 | yellyfish | so delete udev script and restart? |
| 23:20.10 | gnarface | DeeEff: they have similar hardware to each other - your situation is different |
| 23:20.32 | DeeEff | It seemed to work with 4.16.0-1, but that may have just been a fluke. A new ABI would be enough to kill it. |
| 23:21.03 | gnarface | yellyfish: you shouldn't even have to restart, but it didn't work for everyone. some people had to uninstall all dependencies of udev before eudev would go in |
| 23:21.26 | yellyfish | then just logout/login? |
| 23:21.45 | gnarface | not necessary either |
| 23:22.06 | gnarface | but you probably want to test the reboot process anyway to make sure none of the init scripts got hosed while you were doing this |
| 23:22.42 | yellyfish | k. be right back |
| 23:22.49 | DeeEff | yellyfish: |
| 23:22.56 | DeeEff | Are you on ascii? |
| 23:23.00 | yellyfish | ye |
| 23:24.54 | DeeEff | Huh, weird. I had similar Nvidia problems recently (see above). I had about five issues in total but the last one burnt about 3 full days for me. |
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| 23:25.37 | gnarface | DeeEff: it is possible that if you're using nvidia packages from ceres, they might not work well/stably with the ascii kernel - you'd want to make sure that you got the nvidia driver version and the kernel version from the same place |
| 23:25.46 | DeeEff | Funny that he has issues with udev, ascii seems to use eudev properly and packages it to make things easy enough to switch from systemd-udevd. |
| 23:26.43 | gnarface | DeeEff: so if you're using the ceres nvidia driver version, the kernel needs to be from ceres as well. if you're using the one from ascii-backports, then the kernel needs to be from ascii-backports as well. they're only tested in pairs like that upstream, so any other combinations may have unexpected behavior and instability. make sense? |
| 23:26.53 | DeeEff | gnarface: its the opposite I think. Ceres uses the latest kernel, and the changes to 4.16 are all the final mitigation to spectre and meltdown. I think the ABI change that those changes necessitate broke the driver |
| 23:27.24 | DeeEff | The latest Nvidia package has backwards compatible ABI interfaces and will work as far back as 3.6 IIRC |
| 23:27.38 | gnarface | well on ceres stuff is known to be frequently broken without notice for weeks at a time. Nvidia drivers are particularly misbehaved in this way. |
| 23:27.38 | DeeEff | The problem is the kernel doesn't work that way just for Nvidia specially. |
| 23:28.28 | gnarface | if you're just trying to get recent enough nvidia drivers to play steam, it would have been safer to try backports than ceres |
| 23:29.41 | DeeEff | Yeah, I mean, I don't blame the devuan project for ceres being unstable or broken |
| 23:30.11 | DeeEff | But to say it's just broken and unusable would be wrong. I've been using ceres since the beginning and this has been my first major issue. |
| 23:30.35 | DeeEff | Happy to help test that claim if it's needed though :) |
| 23:30.58 | gnarface | i've been using sid longer than ceres, and i can confirm nvidia has single-handedly ruined my day with their sloppy package management dozens of times |
| 23:31.27 | gnarface | right now i'm running a custom kernel on my ceres box though so i can't report on compatibility with the stock one |
| 23:31.52 | gnarface | for the last several versions though i've had a mystery source of some sort of runaway memory leak |
| 23:32.07 | gnarface | it doesn't happen all the time but some combination of firefox and other opengl programs seems to trigger it |
| 23:33.02 | gnarface | what i would have recommended in your situation i guess would have been to just stay on ceres but downgrade the *nvidia drivers* temporarily |
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| 23:33.23 | gnarface | sometimes if you're quick you can do it before they pull the old ones out of the repo |
| 23:33.41 | gnarface | otherwise you have to resort to digging through the debian snapshots repo |
| 23:33.51 | gnarface | i don't think there's devuan snapshots yet but i could be wrong |
| 23:37.53 | DeeEff | Huh, well I suppose that's a reasonable reaction |
| 23:38.06 | DeeEff | I will say though, the sid devs are also the same devs who decided they wanted systemd sooooooo |
| 23:38.10 | DeeEff | :) |
| 23:38.26 | DeeEff | All in all I've been pretty happy and I'm glad that my issues are solved now just by downgrading my kernel. |
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| 23:44.47 | yellyfish | i don't think much changed. |
| 23:45.23 | yellyfish | i tried downgrading libeudev1 but it wants to uninstall lots of xorg packages |
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| 23:47.20 | gnarface | yellyfish: yea getting the switchover from udev to eudev for me did require uninstalling a lot of packages, but that's the part that's supposed to work if you just delete the /etc/init.d/udev script instead, after stopping udev. worth a try anyway. (if you go the "remove everything" route though, make sure after it's done you put the kernel back in before you reboot) |
| 23:48.21 | gnarface | the process it *wants* to follow involves uninstalling the running kernel right out from underneath yourself |
| 23:48.33 | gnarface | which is risky, but should work actually if you don't lose power at an opportune time |
| 23:48.51 | gnarface | inopportune time, i mean |
| 23:50.30 | yellyfish | how do i save all these packages on a file to reinstall after? |
| 23:50.37 | yellyfish | i mean just the names |
| 23:50.38 | terryc | Q: my "eth0" has gone missing. defined in /e/n/interfaces. ?? after migrate to Devuan-ascii. Stumped |
| 23:51.36 | gnarface | terryc: you mean it's no longer in the interfaces file, or just doesn't show up despite being in it? |
| 23:52.34 | gnarface | yellyfish: you could get a list of the installed packges with `dpkg -l` and just redirect that to a file |
| 23:52.59 | gnarface | or you could copy&paste the terminal output from the package conflict message in there |
| 23:53.35 | gnarface | if those are packages that are being removed as dependencies of udev i expect most will come back automatically as dependencies of eudev though |
| 23:57.00 | gnarface | yellyfish: do you need hints like this? `dpkg -l > installed_package_list.txt 2>&1` |
| 23:57.18 | terryc | The migration borked static networking and invoke dhcp using eth1. removing dhcp leaves no networking. doing 'ifup eth0'='what eth0' ifquery reads interfaces okay. brain fade to making static work |
| 23:58.56 | fsr | apt-get blah blah } |
| 23:58.58 | fsr | shit |
| 23:59.12 | fsr | apt-get blah blah | tee myfile |
| 23:59.18 | fsr | I hate this keyboard |