| 00:02.35 | watchcat | .onion addresses, on the other hand, are free, anonymous, and active immediately. |
| 00:03.36 | redrick | And sought-after anonymity is wonderful. The accidental, unsought kind can be problematic. |
| 00:05.59 | redrick | As it happened, when the gopher prank was launched a week ago, although I was busy with visiting houseguests, as per habit I did some basic checks starting with seeing if the devuan.org domain had expired or been hijacked. |
| 00:06.50 | redrick | The WHOIS returned then, as now, doesn't include usable names/addresses/e-mail/telephone numbers for the usual public contacts. |
| 00:09.44 | redrick | Although admittedly Views Differ[tm] on this, my own policy is that real name, addresses, e-mail, phone data in WHOIS is essential, including diversity among them to avert SPoF, and including out-of-band routing of mail, so you don't miss crucial communication including renewal notices, and so you can reliably get 'Dude, there's a problem with your domain' mails. |
| 00:11.58 | watchcat | i see your point. |
| 00:12.08 | redrick | So, e.g., my Registrant contact for my domains uses a monitored mailbox on my wife's domain and server, so 'dude, your server is down' mails reach me if my server is down, and 'dude, your domain is broken' mails reach me if my domain is broken. |
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| 02:46.52 | redrick | And, for the record, I really liked the prank, too. |
| 02:47.03 | redrick | Eh, wrong window. |
| 03:00.26 | watchcat | heh |
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| 04:23.00 | redrick | watchcat: It was a comment directly to KatolaZ, actually. Although my view has shades of grey, to be honest. I've long worried about a major open source project being taken down by security exploit on or just before April 1, as that would be one of the times sysadmin response would be impaired, along with New Year's Eve, etc. |
| 04:24.04 | redrick | This isn't even the first open source project claiming such a security breach. I've always responded with good security advice in case it's real but on a fake-seeming occasion. |
| 04:25.52 | redrick | Although in this case, the notion of intruders converting the compromised site to gopher was an adequate tip-off to anyone who stopped to thing. Not a credible real-world outcome, ergo, nicely done on balance. |
| 04:26.02 | redrick | think, not thing. |
| 04:27.27 | redrick | So, on the one hand, I have sympathy to those who say it's uncool to do a prank about security breaches. OTOH, a total site conversion to gopher on 70/tcp? Really? |
| 04:28.23 | furrywolf | if something is worth doing... :P |
| 04:29.04 | redrick | It really almost qualifies as a moby hack. Huge points for style, in my view. |
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| 04:40.06 | redrick | IMO, the perfect April Fools prank is one that's presented in a completely, consistently deadpan fashion, but if you stop to think is ludicrous. BBC set the benchmark for that in 1957, in its report about the traditional speghetti harvet in Switzerland. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU Callers to Auntie Beeb who asked for advice about how to grow their own spaghetti trees were told 'place a sprig of spaghetti in a tin of tomato sauce and hope fo |
| 04:43.54 | redrick | That clip is IMO worth the time of anyone who hasn't yet seen it. 62 years, and still hilarious. |
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| 04:51.34 | furrywolf | I've seen it. :) |
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| 14:29.21 | xrogaan | next presentation soon: presentations are going on |
| 14:29.32 | xrogaan | sight |
| 14:29.36 | xrogaan | next presentation soon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ULy7jBnXdo |
| 14:29.57 | xrogaan | "How to sell dev1 to your organisation" |
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| 17:22.32 | Akuli | if i have a devuan with xfce desktop, how do i switch to mate? i tried installing task-mate-desktop, but mate-session doesn't run automatically on login after installing that |
| 17:27.33 | Akuli | nevermind, seems like i just needed to remove all the xfce stuff and update-alternatives started using mate-session correctly |
| 18:06.55 | xrogaan | the dyne.org youtube channel is still reported as "live" |
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| 21:43.35 | Hypertables | why do I keep getting hash sum mismatch: https://paste.ee/p/vFsEO |
| 21:45.05 | gnarface | i'd like to help but i'm not clicking there, too paranoid |
| 21:45.22 | gnarface | did you download the image with https? |
| 21:45.39 | gnarface | it may or may not matter |
| 21:46.09 | Hypertables | https://paste.debian.net/1076607/ |
| 21:46.49 | Hypertables | I installed with debootstrap, not iso image |
| 21:47.12 | gnarface | hmmm, looks like a problem, for sure, though i do note you have some non-devuan sources in there. |
| 21:47.37 | gnarface | they may have caused this problem indirectly, with stuff you installed from there previously |
| 21:48.16 | gnarface | or it maybe could just be that you got unlucky and hit a repo in the round-robin that is currently updating... does it happen on this same file every time? |
| 21:48.51 | Hypertables | well it happens every time |
| 21:49.30 | Hypertables | yes I just got the same error |
| 21:49.45 | gnarface | and that command is just "apt-get update" ? |
| 21:49.57 | Hypertables | yes |
| 21:50.13 | gnarface | lemme test here, stand by |
| 21:50.26 | Hypertables | maybe I have a bad sources.list |
| 21:51.04 | Hypertables | https://paste.debian.net/1076609/ <-- my sources.list |
| 21:54.46 | gnarface | try it with just deb.devuan.org or pkgmaster.devuan.org to see if that makes a difference. comment out that node.js thing for now too |
| 21:55.30 | gnarface | http://paste.debian.net/1076610/ |
| 21:56.04 | gnarface | this is working for me right now |
| 21:56.31 | gnarface | it suggests the problem is either with your dns resolution or something you installed from one of those 3rd party repos |
| 21:56.59 | xrogaan | you might be getting a bad mirror, KatolaZ might help you in that case. |
| 21:57.37 | Jjp137 | for the record, us.deb.devuan.org works for me currently (I know it doesn't do anything special right now), but yea just simplify your sources.list for now |
| 21:58.09 | Hypertables | well I tried pkgmaster and now the difference between latest modification time and release file created is narrower but I still get the errors |
| 21:58.19 | xrogaan | you shouldn't use us.deb nor pkgmaster |
| 21:58.29 | xrogaan | use deb.devuan.org |
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| 22:00.00 | Jjp137 | I wouldn't say not to use us.deb; it is documented here: https://devuan.org/os/ |
| 22:00.07 | Jjp137 | but it is easiest to start with deb.devuan.org |
| 22:00.13 | xrogaan | Hypertables: could you give me the result from `host us.deb.devuan.org'? |
| 22:00.49 | Hypertables | us.deb.devuan.org is an alias for pkgmaster.devuan.org. pkgmaster.devuan.org has address 5.196.38.18 |
| 22:02.47 | gnarface | that is correct |
| 22:03.05 | gnarface | that is what i get here too |
| 22:03.31 | gnarface | but deb.devuan.org should be a round-robin of several mirrors |
| 22:04.03 | gnarface | i see 13 here |
| 22:04.49 | xrogaan | yeah, so maybe something is crapping on your network as you receive the files. You might have a cache somewhere. |
| 22:05.25 | Hypertables | pretty sure I don't have an http cache or anything like that |
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| 22:08.24 | gnarface | well, it looks like you only have one option to confirm whether it is the repo or not |
| 22:08.58 | gnarface | in general it is a bad idea to use 3rd party repos or other distro's repos though |
| 22:09.15 | gnarface | that could really be the issue too |
| 22:09.30 | gnarface | not that you have the repo in there, but that you installed something from there |
| 22:09.59 | gnarface | if it was made for debian or ubuntu, for example, there are a number of highly eccentric failure cases |
| 22:10.11 | gnarface | most of them not immediately obvious on install |
| 22:10.16 | xrogaan | no, I don't get the warning but the InRelease file does list a different sha256sum than the one from the file I get |
| 22:10.31 | xrogaan | a958a8acee49af960759f7533231b075d184fa8ee7d708764b022d33c1d29e8f 335185 main/Contents-amd64.gz |
| 22:10.32 | xrogaan | http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii-updates/InRelease |
| 22:10.49 | xrogaan | But locally: 75acef3458d85396d38b730213b0fe801508a961f4d30495cfa585b8318ccf95 Contents-amd64.gz |
| 22:10.56 | gnarface | same if you use https? |
| 22:11.17 | xrogaan | IIRC there is no https |
| 22:12.03 | xrogaan | not on the round robin, it uses the wrong certificate |
| 22:12.08 | Jjp137 | pkgmaster supports https, but you have to explicitly specify that mirror instead of using deb.devuan.org |
| 22:12.25 | Jjp137 | the round robin doesn't support https |
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| 22:15.43 | gnarface | 75acef3458d85396d38b730213b0fe801508a961f4d30495cfa585b8318ccf95 for Contents-amd64.gz locally here too |
| 22:20.53 | xrogaan | is there a way for apt to not care about that value? |
| 22:21.21 | gnarface | probably, but i don't know if it's a good idea to ignore it |
| 22:21.36 | gnarface | could be evidence of a MITM attack... |
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| 22:23.41 | xrogaan | gnarface: apt-config | grep AllowInsecure |
| 22:24.09 | xrogaan | I have this, somehow: Binary::apt-get::Acquire::AllowInsecureRepositories "1"; |
| 22:24.46 | gnarface | also note that in that InRelease file, that line for main/Contents-amd64.gz is actually listed under the armhf/Packages.gz file |
| 22:25.09 | gnarface | so that's probably just a case of looking at the wrong InRelease file |
| 22:25.25 | gnarface | but i don't know how this works well enough to be sure |
| 22:26.29 | gnarface | might you have enabled that before installing the devuan-keyring package then forgot to turn it back off? |
| 22:26.31 | gnarface | xrogaan: ? |
| 22:26.48 | xrogaan | haven't touched that |
| 22:26.55 | xrogaan | might not even be relevant |
| 22:26.57 | gnarface | hmm |
| 22:27.55 | gnarface | i see it actually set to Binary::apt-get::Acquire::AllowInsecureRepositories "1"; |
| 22:27.57 | gnarface | on my rpi |
| 22:28.28 | xrogaan | https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/apt/apt-secure.8.en.html |
| 22:29.09 | xrogaan | so not relevant |
| 22:30.30 | xrogaan | how do you see the package "armhf" thing? |
| 22:31.15 | xrogaan | oh, I don't think those are relevant |
| 22:31.30 | xrogaan | the InRelease file is just a list of files without set order. |
| 22:31.47 | gnarface | there is indentation |
| 22:31.58 | gnarface | look on the previous line |
| 22:32.03 | gnarface | all the way at the left |
| 22:33.02 | xrogaan | As I said, it's a list a files with associated hash. |
| 22:33.06 | xrogaan | and size |
| 22:33.52 | xrogaan | what concerns me is that apt doesn't raise an error with the mismatching hash. |
| 22:34.30 | gnarface | i wonder if it has to do with the redirects |
| 22:34.46 | gnarface | and you're right, i was getting weird wrapping. it's a linear list after all |
| 22:39.51 | xrogaan | Hypertables: try to manually clean /var/lib/apt/lists/ |
| 22:39.54 | xrogaan | just in case |
| 22:41.28 | Hypertables | no change |
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| 22:43.40 | xrogaan | how did you clean the folder? |
| 22:44.05 | Hypertables | with rm -rf |
| 22:44.31 | Hypertables | incl removal of the "lists" directory |
| 22:45.34 | xrogaan | you might be behind a proxy without knowing it. |
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| 22:46.58 | Hypertables | doubtful. I'm behind a residential cable internet connection and I manage the gateway box myself. it does iptables-based nat but no proxying |
| 22:48.20 | xrogaan | do you trust your ISP? |
| 22:48.44 | obarun | hi, what's the devuan policies about elogind? Do you use it? Do you use consolekit2 or any other alternatives? |
| 22:49.17 | gnarface | obarun: it's mentioned in the release notes https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt |
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| 22:51.50 | Hypertables | this looks very much like a bug in devuan to me ... has anyone managed to pull a copy of this file http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/main/Contents-amd64.gz with the "correct" checksum e0e8ec7baba6bc2d4c26918b14aa8e27b95939d9f7440cb98fb087191e8de019 ? |
| 22:52.42 | obarun | gnarface: many thanks |
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| 22:53.30 | gnarface | obarun: no problem |
| 22:55.14 | xrogaan | Hypertables: is that the correct checksum? |
| 22:55.33 | Hypertables | well that's what's in http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/InRelease |
| 22:55.56 | Hypertables | has anyone pulled a different content of the InRelease file? |
| 22:56.41 | gnarface | not here, i don't think |
| 22:58.31 | xrogaan | I have not |
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| 23:04.12 | xrogaan | Hypertables: why does my apt not warn me of those mismatches? |
| 23:05.35 | gnarface | didn't we go over this once and it turns out because they're auto-generated with combined contents on the fly? |
| 23:06.22 | xrogaan | no, gnarface, you seem to be confused. |
| 23:06.25 | xrogaan | or I am |
| 23:06.30 | gnarface | i'm sure i'm confused |
| 23:07.34 | xrogaan | I don't know why the file listed above "main/Contents-amd64.gz" should be relevant to "main/Contents-amd64.gz". |
| 23:09.22 | gnarface | ignore that, i was hallucinating |
| 23:09.42 | gnarface | i note that the main/Contents-amd64.gz for ceres does seem to match the InRelease file |
| 23:10.25 | gnarface | so it's something different about ascii |
| 23:10.36 | gnarface | could it just be not yet updated? |
| 23:11.54 | xrogaan | but why isn't my apt yelling? |
| 23:14.39 | gnarface | it could be this setting in apt-config perhaps? Binary::apt-get::Acquire::AllowInsecureRepositories "1"; |
| 23:15.01 | gnarface | check to see if you have it |
| 23:19.21 | xrogaan | that's related to the gpg key |
| 23:19.35 | xrogaan | you're not getting the error either |
| 23:19.49 | gnarface | that is true |
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| 23:23.06 | gnarface | hmm. i'm still thinking it might have something to do with how amprolla works. that's what my memory is nagging at anyway |
| 23:23.23 | gnarface | there might be http 302 redirects confusing something here |
| 23:23.53 | *** join/#devuan Tom-_ (~tomg@67-43-135-81.border8-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 23:26.43 | xrogaan | ah no, you were right |
| 23:27.34 | xrogaan | sudo apt -o Acquire::AllowInsecureRepositories=false update < this fails everything |
| 23:28.54 | xrogaan | https://paste.debian.net/1076616/ |
| 23:37.13 | xrogaan | welp, it's all broken now |
| 23:42.13 | *** join/#devuan FriendlyMan (~IceChat9@71-212-34-29.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 23:43.06 | *** join/#devuan GoatAvenger (~GoatAveng@unaffiliated/goatavenger) |