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| 00:16.25 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ |
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| 02:24.41 | agris | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:59.34 | agris | every time I try to start a container i get xc-start: cgroups/cgfsng.c: create_path_for_hierarchy: 1306 Path "/sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset//lxc/voip" already existed. |
| 02:59.40 | agris | I need some help |
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| 03:11.08 | agris | no containers successfully start unless i add lxc.aa_allow_incomplete = 1 to their config |
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| 04:11.26 | gnarface | agris: i think they need their own roots |
| 04:11.45 | gnarface | i don't know about lxc2 specifically but in general, containers tend to have their own roots |
| 04:11.47 | agris | gnarface, what do you mean? |
| 04:12.14 | agris | every container has it's own rootfs in /var/lib/lxc/nameofcontainer/rootfs/ |
| 04:12.27 | gnarface | that makes sense |
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| 05:29.54 | agris | also, Where is the manual page for start-stop-daemon? |
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| 05:34.36 | agris | Does Devuan have problems with OpenRC? |
| 05:34.55 | agris | I'm trying to write a script and it executes $command in forground |
| 05:35.09 | agris | also it doesn't seem to have the same start-stop-daemon as gentoo |
| 05:35.49 | agris | Is this the wrong channel for support? |
| 05:36.32 | FunkyBob | no, it can jus be a bit slow at times |
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| 05:44.03 | rwp | agris, On your system 'man start-stop-daemon' should work. Doesn't it? You can look online here: https://manpages.debian.org/buster/dpkg/start-stop-daemon.8.en.html |
| 05:44.22 | agris | no it doesn't |
| 05:44.30 | agris | I've also just upgraded from ascii to beowulf |
| 05:44.47 | agris | now it does |
| 05:44.53 | agris | but only in beowulf |
| 05:45.08 | agris | also OpenRC isn't working correctly |
| 05:45.08 | rwp | Okay. Glad to hear it is working for you. |
| 05:45.22 | agris | It's starting the command variable in foreground |
| 05:45.49 | agris | Isn't that the whole point of init? to not start things in foreground? |
| 05:46.03 | agris | also, the net virtual doesn't work properly |
| 05:46.34 | agris | any services that claim a dependency on network connectivity fail, when network connectivity is clearly working, otherwise I wouldn't be sshed in |
| 05:46.41 | agris | also |
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| 05:47.17 | agris | OpenRC is not respecting start_stop_daemon_args= at all |
| 05:48.09 | agris | and in start-stop-daemon, it's missing parameters like --progress |
| 05:48.29 | agris | At this point so many things are broken or having errata I don't even know where to begin |
| 05:48.33 | agris | I'm so confused |
| 05:49.26 | rwp | I am not running openrc so have little experience to help there. Sorry. |
| 05:49.34 | agris | also, daemons are crashing and rc-status is reporting them as online |
| 05:49.54 | agris | when they are clearly missing in top and their pid files don't resolve to any proccesses |
| 05:52.39 | agris | # rc-service fnet stop |
| 05:52.39 | agris | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:52.39 | agris | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:52.40 | agris | start-stop-daemon: warning: failed to kill 916: No such process |
| 05:52.42 | agris | 1 pids were not killed |
| 05:52.44 | agris | No process in pidfile '/var/run/fnet.pid' found running; none killed. [ !! ] |
| 05:52.47 | agris | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:53.22 | agris | So you think after openrc literally telling me No process in pidfile '/var/run/fnet.pid' found running; none killed. it would mark the service as 'stopped' right? |
| 05:53.27 | agris | wrong |
| 05:53.41 | agris | fnet is still running according to rc-service and rc-status |
| 05:53.47 | agris | wtf? |
| 06:02.31 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:03.26 | gnarface | so you may be seeing unfamiliar behavior that is expected behavior but just different from gentoo's... that shit about daemons running in the foreground though, that sounds like user error to me. |
| 06:04.01 | agris | another weird thing is the daemons act differently than when executed by hand |
| 06:04.20 | gnarface | that is expected behavior for several of them that i know of, nothing to do with openrc |
| 06:04.57 | gnarface | alot of daemons are known to default to stderr logging if exected by hand, but not as a daemon |
| 06:05.13 | gnarface | i can't imagine that'd be different in gentoo |
| 06:05.46 | gnarface | however some of these daemons may be different versions than the ones in gentoo, so you may be seeing version related differences unrelated to the distro or the init system |
| 06:06.11 | agris | I see |
| 06:06.12 | gnarface | lemme rephrase that; most of these daemons are probably different versions than the ones in gentoo. some differences in behavior should be expected |
| 06:06.20 | agris | How do i run a command as a specific uid? |
| 06:06.27 | agris | In Devuan |
| 06:06.28 | gnarface | there are several ways to do that |
| 06:06.32 | agris | with OpenRC |
| 06:06.33 | gnarface | none of them are devuan specific either |
| 06:06.42 | gnarface | afaik start-stop-daemon should work |
| 06:06.48 | gnarface | but only if run as root |
| 06:07.00 | gnarface | you can try out runas, sudo, or su too |
| 06:07.09 | agris | OpenRC is supposed to use start-stop-daemon in the backend |
| 06:07.36 | gnarface | hmm. runas is wrong. i'm thinking of something with a similar name, but i don't think "runas" is the name |
| 06:07.38 | agris | But what's the Devian OpenRC way to do that? because command_user="_somedaemonaccountd" doesn't appear to work |
| 06:08.02 | agris | I have command="", command_args="", and command_user="" |
| 06:08.06 | gnarface | hmmm, sorry unfortunately i'm not familiar with openrc either, but i know that some people here are |
| 06:08.15 | gnarface | you just gotta be patient and wait till one shows up |
| 06:08.22 | gnarface | or check out the forum and mailing list |
| 06:08.55 | agris | sure |
| 06:09.03 | gnarface | dev1galaxy.org |
| 06:09.05 | gnarface | did you look here? |
| 06:09.16 | gnarface | a lot of these repeating questions do get put on the forum, with answers |
| 06:09.53 | gnarface | and you've gotta be about the 4th or 5th person at least who has come in here complaining about openrc being "broken" compared to gentoo. so far they all have gotten it figured out without my help. |
| 06:11.04 | gnarface | one of these days i might have to install it myself to figure out what's going on, but i suspect that you've run into something fairly simple |
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| 06:22.10 | agris | ok search function on the forum isn't working right either |
| 06:22.55 | gnarface | really? hmmm |
| 06:23.02 | agris | I search for posts containing command_user and it brings up posts with absolutely zero occurrences of that string |
| 06:23.12 | gnarface | did you search for openrc? |
| 06:23.56 | agris | hold it, there's a cooldown period for searches |
| 06:24.40 | gnarface | https://dev1galaxy.org/search.php?search_id=1470763036 |
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| 06:25.33 | gnarface | the openrc installation in Devuan is probably more like the one in Debian than Gentoo, but Debian's documentation on it seems pretty sparse as well... |
| 06:25.43 | agris | https://dev1galaxy.org/search.php?search_id=805375784 |
| 06:25.56 | agris | No, I got OpenRC installed. That's not the issue |
| 06:26.16 | gnarface | did you try my search link there? |
| 06:26.30 | gnarface | i just searched for "openrc" and came back with a few pages of results |
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| 06:27.05 | gnarface | the first thing you need to figure out is if your issues are self-inflicted or part of a ongoing problem with beowulf |
| 06:27.14 | gnarface | i don't suppose you have an ascii install to test against, do you? |
| 06:27.15 | agris | Is there search doing something special with underscores? |
| 06:27.35 | agris | gnarface, Is there a way to downgrade back down to ascii? |
| 06:27.50 | agris | If not I'll just reinstall |
| 06:27.55 | gnarface | agris: i don't know about the underscores. i do know that, like Debian, downgrading is not supported. |
| 06:28.10 | gnarface | you could try ascii in a VM or something instead though |
| 06:31.15 | gnarface | it might save you some time |
| 06:31.59 | gnarface | that forum software is some well known open source one i believe, so it probably handles underscores in a documented fashion |
| 06:32.23 | gnarface | it might just be ignoring them or converting them to whitespace like google search does |
| 06:38.55 | agris | gnarface, one second pleae |
| 06:39.00 | agris | I'm trying something |
| 06:44.03 | agris | ok |
| 06:44.11 | agris | I"m almost certain this is a bug in beowulf |
| 06:44.26 | agris | command_user="user:group" does not work |
| 06:45.05 | agris | If you set both a group and a user, starting the service will fail with start-stop-daemon: user 'user:group' not found |
| 06:45.58 | agris | if if you set the init script command_user="user" |
| 06:46.21 | agris | openrc will start the init script as root even though you specified a user |
| 06:46.41 | agris | effectively opening up the system to attack |
| 06:47.56 | agris | let me try specifying a different process supervisor. maybe start-stop-daemon is the buggy part in beowulf |
| 06:48.06 | agris | I will test this again in ascii later |
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| 06:49.33 | agris | ok |
| 06:49.47 | agris | adding supervisor=supervise-daemon to the script makes it work properly |
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| 06:56.23 | gnarface | agris: glad you got it figured out. just from your description of the behavior change i can't tell for sure if that's a bug or just a surprise change in behavior. maybe they moved the group name to a separate variable or something? i'd check to see if they have updated documentation somewhere for the version in beowulf |
| 06:58.53 | agris | gnarface, I'm going by the official OpenRC documentation here https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/blob/master/service-script-guide.md |
| 06:59.22 | agris | the syntax specified is command_user="user:group" |
| 06:59.30 | gnarface | nothing in there about command_group ? |
| 06:59.46 | agris | no, that would be redundant |
| 07:00.13 | gnarface | well it would be redundant unless they decided to remove the ability to specify a group along with a user in command_user |
| 07:00.23 | gnarface | i'm not saying that's what happened; this is pure speculation on my part |
| 07:00.58 | gnarface | you're probably right that it's a bug, but often the documentation is the last thing to be updated, too... |
| 07:01.25 | agris | well they didn't from OpenRC, as when I changed the proccess supervisor from the default of start-stop-daemon to supervise-daemon the priv-dropping worked correctly |
| 07:02.00 | agris | so somewhere the translation of user and group parameters to start-stop-daemon got borked |
| 07:03.09 | gnarface | plausible |
| 07:04.14 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 07:04.29 | gnarface | no bug reports on openrc in debian |
| 07:04.36 | gnarface | only one in bugs.devuan.org |
| 07:04.42 | gnarface | well, only one unresolved |
| 07:05.02 | gnarface | i don't think it's this though |
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| 07:31.09 | agris | pity |
| 07:34.01 | gnarface | agris: i recommend filing the bug report about it |
| 07:34.11 | agris | ok |
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| 07:38.57 | agris | about filing bugs for INIT systems other than systemd |
| 07:39.23 | agris | Is this something I should file a bug report with Debian or Devuan? |
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| 07:39.58 | agris | Because I feel like I'd get a hostile or apathetic response filing this with Debian |
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| 08:34.19 | gnarface | agris: file it at bugs.devuan.org |
| 08:34.57 | gnarface | agris: try the email submission method if the form fails |
| 08:35.24 | gnarface | i've heard it advised to use the email submission method |
| 08:35.42 | gnarface | make sure that one other open bug on openrc isn't the same thing first |
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| 09:06.38 | FatPhil | agris: is it possible to set -x on the rc scripts? It might be verbose, but you would be able to see which of your parameters were being picked up and how they were being parsed? |
| 09:07.45 | agris | FatPhil, that's not necessary. OpenRC scripts have their own interpreter like bash, perl, or python |
| 09:07.48 | agris | openrc-run |
| 09:13.03 | FatPhil | OK, back in the day it was standard sh, and -x would have come to your aid. |
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| 09:25.25 | agris | FatPhil, yeah OpenRC is sysv compatible, but it has extra capabilities |
| 09:26.48 | FatPhil | have you looked at the source? |
| 09:26.57 | agris | no |
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| 09:29.29 | FatPhil | does openrc use the default start-stop-daemon, or come with its own? |
| 09:29.47 | FatPhil | I'm not sure that its use of command_user makes sense |
| 09:30.48 | FatPhil | I see the following from doing $ git grep -C4 command_user |
| 09:30.59 | FatPhil | sh/start-stop-daemon.sh: ${command_user+--user} $command_user \ |
| 09:31.06 | agris | by default is uses start-stop-daemon for supervisory |
| 09:31.31 | FatPhil | and man start-stop-daemon says: |
| 09:31.33 | FatPhil | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:31.33 | FatPhil | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:31.34 | agris | you can also override the start() function and write a sysv-like system by hand if you need |
| 09:31.55 | FatPhil | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:31.55 | FatPhil | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:32.49 | gnarface | start-stop-daemon is part of dpkg itself here on ceres. try dpkg -S start-stop-daemon |
| 09:33.31 | agris | start-stop-daemon works fine by itself, albeit missing features |
| 09:33.37 | agris | It's the translation that's missing |
| 09:37.35 | FatPhil | do you agree that it would make sense for sh/start-stop-daemon.sh to use --chuid rather than --user, or am I misinterpreting the script. I have no experience either with openrc or even running start-stop-daemon directly, I'm just a pattern-matcher. |
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| 10:14.42 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ |
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| 10:44.45 | g0zzy | Just been phoned up about a box hanging on boot at a message about a dns resolver. Any ideas? |
| 10:45.44 | gnarface | something is probably wrong with the DNS resolver |
| 10:46.13 | gnarface | that's more helpful than it sounds |
| 10:46.41 | gnarface | 127.0.0.1localhost.localdomainlocalhost |
| 10:46.49 | gnarface | for good measure, make sure you have this line in /etc/hosts though too ^ |
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| 10:47.07 | g0zzy | Why would that prevent booting though? Why not carry on booting with no network? |
| 10:47.42 | gnarface | well it's not actually hanging, it just has a really long timeout when it can't figure out it's own name |
| 10:47.49 | gnarface | probably |
| 10:48.04 | gnarface | something they're running |
| 10:48.10 | gnarface | often the MTA |
| 10:48.20 | gnarface | (exim4 by default) |
| 10:48.33 | g0zzy | Yes, that is in use |
| 10:48.57 | gnarface | it should continue booting after 60 seconds |
| 10:49.02 | FatPhil | are you using resolvconf? |
| 10:49.06 | gnarface | then you can either fix the DNS or fix the /etc/hosts file so you don't need DNS |
| 10:49.22 | g0zzy | Probably. Can't quite remember |
| 10:49.38 | gnarface | but if it's the ISP's DNS servers that are down, this change is external to the box and still needs to be corrected |
| 10:50.06 | g0zzy | Network ok for other devices apparently |
| 10:50.27 | gnarface | try doing something that requires DNS |
| 10:50.38 | gnarface | like surf to a webpage not in your cache |
| 10:50.51 | gnarface | IP traffic would still work even without DNS |
| 10:50.54 | g0zzy | Yes, OK. That's probably a good idea |
| 10:50.57 | FatPhil | or just ping |
| 10:51.50 | FatPhil | ifdown/ifup will at least let you see the DHCP negiotiation take place. however, that should be in your logs anyway |
| 10:52.15 | FatPhil | but I do recommend resolvconf to make management of resolv.conf easier. |
| 10:52.40 | gnarface | oh, that's a good point. a DNS problem could be a red herring... it might be DHCP failing to assign DNS properly |
| 10:52.47 | g0zzy | Right. SHall look into it |
| 10:52.56 | gnarface | but in most home networks these are both coming from the plastic router box they gave you anyway |
| 10:53.47 | g0zzy | Yes, i'll call them and ask them to restart that piece of tat before rebooting |
| 10:55.06 | FatPhil | I have a shitty box whose ETH PHY took a minute to work out which way was on, and always timed out with udhcpc, so I had to change dhcp client. |
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| 10:55.34 | FatPhil | (back to the default, so you should be fine) |
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| 10:57.14 | FatPhil | whistles innocently as he removes a horribly wrong line defining his own IP address from /etc/hosts... |
| 10:58.38 | g0zzy | started using dnscrypt-proxy on this machine yesterday. Found it was broken in Stretch |
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| 11:26.14 | g0zzy | Thanks folks |
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| 11:28.57 | ejr | hi. when i log into devuan ascii, audio output is muted by default and can only be enabled with the laptop's 'volume up' button (i.e. alsamixer is not sufficient). is there a way to still automatically unmute the system without needing to open my laptop lid and reach for the volume-up button? |
| 11:30.06 | ejr | i am using a thinkpad on an ultrabase that is in a sort of drawer, which makes it tedious to unmute devuan as i need to move the entire docking station in order to open the lid |
| 11:33.32 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: sounds like an older thinkpad? |
| 11:33.51 | ejr | yes, an x60 |
| 11:34.56 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: because older had hardware mute, check if you have a bios setting for it |
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| 11:36.15 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: or search in /proc/acpi/ibm |
| 11:38.18 | ejr | i am using libreboot... but i will check /proc, thanks! |
| 11:38.54 | Humpelst1lzchen | nice |
| 11:40.07 | ejr | oh well, there is the file "volume" which has two lines: level: 12 / mute: on; but if I try to manually edit it (replacing "on" with "off" i cannot save it because it has already been overwritten again by the system |
| 11:40.52 | ejr | when dealing with files like that that had just one line i would just use "echo 'mute: off' > volume" but this does not work when there are two lines obviously |
| 11:41.57 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/laptops/thinkpad-acpi.txt |
| 11:42.04 | Humpelst1lzchen | check the Volume control section |
| 11:42.11 | fsmithred | echo -e "first-line\nsecond-line" > file |
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| 11:43.05 | fsmithred | oh, you might need a second \n at the end |
| 11:43.29 | Humpelst1lzchen | "echo unmute > /proc/acpi/ibm/volume" in this case |
| 11:45.28 | ejr | i tried both of your suggestions, fsmithred and Humpelst1lzchen, but always get "Operation not permitted" although I'm root |
| 11:47.53 | gnarface | no pulseaudio right? |
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| 11:49.28 | gnarface | i don't know for sure that it wouldn't do this |
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| 11:51.05 | ejr | no pulse, right |
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| 11:55.59 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: did you read the kernel.org link? |
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| 11:59.26 | fsmithred | is alsactl store still a thing |
| 11:59.27 | fsmithred | ? |
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| 12:00.55 | fsmithred | guess so, I got a man page for it |
| 12:01.06 | fsmithred | don't know if it'll help |
| 12:01.34 | ejr | Humpelst1lzchen: yes, it says i need to enable volume_control=1 as a module parameter, but i don't know whether that means I need to create a file called volume_control with a 1 in it, or add that line to the volume file. in either case i cannot do so as i am not permitted to |
| 12:02.14 | fsmithred | what are the permissions on the file? |
| 12:03.12 | ejr | 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 |
| 12:05.58 | fsmithred | did you have to make any changes to get the mute or volume buttons to work after you installed? |
| 12:06.47 | ejr | no |
| 12:09.35 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: thats a module parameter |
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| 12:11.44 | Humpelst1lzchen | ejr: aka create a file /etc/modprobe.d/thinkpad.conf with content "options thinkpad_acpi volume_control=1" |
| 12:12.24 | Humpelst1lzchen | and reboot |
| 12:15.00 | ejr | will do, brb |
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| 12:19.21 | Guest80950 | thanks, that fixed it. when i now do echo "unmute">volume, i get sound as desired |
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| 12:31.03 | Humpelst1lzchen | :) |
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| 13:11.39 | FatPhil | Just dist-upgrading one of my jessie boxes to ascii - is there any reason why my fairly minimal install (has only barebones X, no "desktop environment"), should bloat by half a gig in the process? |
| 13:12.33 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:12.35 | gnarface | add this^ |
| 13:12.39 | gnarface | FatPhil: |
| 13:14.38 | FatPhil | APT::Install-Suggests "0"; |
| 13:14.38 | FatPhil | APT::Install-Recommends "0"; |
| 13:14.52 | gnarface | yikes |
| 13:14.56 | gnarface | i don't know then |
| 13:15.06 | gnarface | the estimates could be wrong |
| 13:15.09 | FatPhil | The first lines in my new machine deployment script set that |
| 13:15.22 | gnarface | or it might not count what gets removed after later running autoremove to prune unused stuff... |
| 13:16.11 | FatPhil | I'll check the logs for packages which aren't uprades but are new packages, and see if I can spot a pattern. |
| 13:16.13 | fsmithred | also, clean the cache |
| 13:16.26 | fsmithred | du -sh /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 13:16.37 | fsmithred | to see how significant it is |
| 13:17.40 | fsmithred | apt-get autoclean (for obsolete) or apt-get clean (to empty it) |
| 13:17.41 | FatPhil | oops, I've run out of space! need to do some cleanup, crtain;ly |
| 13:17.56 | fsmithred | I hate when that happens |
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| 13:18.55 | fsmithred | bbl |
| 13:23.02 | FatPhil | oooh, it's in a messed-up state now, I can't just type dist-upgrade again |
| 13:23.42 | FatPhil | I'll just pop into aptitude, update, and upgrade everything apart from what I want to hold (browsers that get worse with every new version) |
| 13:25.46 | FatPhil | Why the fuck does /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers.dpkg-new contain 40 blank lines at the start of it? did some debain dev fall asleep at his keyboard? |
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| 13:26.21 | FatPhil | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:26.26 | FatPhil | very easy decision to make |
| 13:26.40 | drawkula | chck the diff |
| 13:27.08 | drawkula | https://tinyurl.com/ommmmmmmmm |
| 13:27.36 | drawkula | waits for a bercow-ommmm-meme... |
| 13:29.46 | FatPhil | the diff had 40+ lines of nothing but '+', that's what made me look at the actual file, as I thought the pager showing the diffs had got its knickers in a twist. |
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| 13:30.17 | FatPhil | I'm pleased to say that on another file, the 3-way merge worked perfectly. |
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| 13:32.33 | FatPhil | OK, what's the difference between pkg-config and pkgconfig, just a cosmetic rename? |
| 13:33.57 | g0zzy | >>well it's not actually hanging, it just has a really long timeout when it can't figure out it's own name |
| 13:33.58 | g0zzy | Actually it turns out that it's been like that for hours. So it's definitely a hang. It won't boot |
| 13:34.50 | FatPhil | can you turn on early logins, so you can get in as root and sniff around before everything's started? |
| 13:36.37 | g0zzy | FatPhil: Is that to me? |
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| 13:40.04 | g0zzy | gnarface: Any ideas short of installing a different OS? There's nothing i can think of doing if it's not even booting |
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| 13:40.07 | FatPhil | g0zzy: yup, alternatively you could go in in single user mode and then bring it up by hand |
| 13:40.36 | g0zzy | I did go in there rw init=/bin/bash |
| 13:41.10 | g0zzy | But i just checked resolv.conf and it looked normal |
| 13:42.13 | FatPhil | does DELAYLOGIN=yes in /etc/default/rcS let you go in and examing what task is hanging? |
| 13:42.32 | FatPhil | =no, sorry, obviously |
| 13:43.24 | g0zzy | I can try that i suppose |
| 13:44.10 | gnarface | g0zzy: it doesn't boot after 60 seconds? |
| 13:44.50 | g0zzy | Abso not. Stuck like that forever |
| 13:46.33 | gnarface | even 120s? |
| 13:47.32 | gnarface | did you add localhost to the hosts file? |
| 13:47.37 | gnarface | try adding your own ip and hostname too |
| 13:47.39 | g0zzy | The machine had been on for at least two hours when i got to it just now with that on the screen |
| 13:47.56 | gnarface | is it network boot or something? |
| 13:48.06 | g0zzy | Standard boot |
| 13:48.57 | g0zzy | "Couldn't get address for 'resolver1.opendns.com': failure" |
| 13:50.19 | gnarface | is that even something it should be looking for? |
| 13:50.21 | drawkula | ip6 problem? |
| 13:50.39 | g0zzy | A wicd hook? |
| 13:50.46 | g0zzy | (problem) |
| 13:55.01 | g0zzy | One of the scripts that i use (wip == what is my ip) contains this: dig +short myip.opendns.com @resolver1.opendns.com |
| 13:55.31 | g0zzy | But i don't see why that would be getting called so early. And it's been fine up until now |
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| 13:57.01 | gnarface | look at the LSB headers in the script g0zzy |
| 13:57.07 | gnarface | see if it depends on networking? |
| 13:58.49 | g0zzy | I can't remember how that would be getting called now. The idea is for that box to mail me its IP address |
| 13:59.41 | gnarface | grep -ni 'opendns' /etc/init.d/ |
| 14:00.29 | g0zzy | thinks of the kludge dig +short myip.opendns.com @208.67.222.222 ;) |
| 14:00.57 | gnarface | grep -ni 'opendns' /etc/ |
| 14:00.57 | gnarface | ? |
| 14:01.04 | gnarface | grep -rni 'opendns' /etc/ |
| 14:01.46 | g0zzy | I'd probably need to grep for 'wip' actually |
| 14:02.13 | gnarface | oh |
| 14:02.15 | gnarface | or whatever |
| 14:02.19 | gnarface | anyway it should be easy to find |
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| 14:02.37 | g0zzy | I think we might be closing in on it though |
| 14:06.26 | g0zzy | So i'd have put a hook in networking to send that mail. It's ascii standard desktop. Where do you think i put that hook? I can't remember ;) |
| 14:08.03 | gnarface | well the startup scripts for the system should all be in /etc/init.d but you could have put it in your home directory or probably a number of other places |
| 14:09.06 | gnarface | if you had put it in /etc/rc.local it probably wouldn't be running before networking though... |
| 14:10.46 | FatPhil | g0zzy: does your IP address change often? I have a machine which does, so I have an (ana)cron job that just lets me know its address (by hitting my webserver, but mail would work too). |
| 14:11.03 | jonadab | ^ I do that. |
| 14:11.21 | jonadab | Actually, in my case, it's infrequent, so I have the cron job just hit the web server once an hour. |
| 14:11.52 | jonadab | But if you're fetching a very small file, or requesting one that doesn't exist, you could do it much more often without having much impact. |
| 14:20.01 | FatPhil | I double-duty the script - my webserver caches some scraped information, so I use my pinging script to just keep those caches fresh so I don't have to wait 5 seconds for it to perform a new scrape! |
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| 14:24.41 | FatPhil | g0zzy: udhcpc theoretically llets you run a script after various DHCPevents, perhap y cout |
| 14:24.50 | FatPhil | fkn kbd btry |
| 14:25.05 | FatPhil | erhaps you could hook your script into that? |
| 14:27.46 | FatPhil | let's see if the new battery is better. yup, seems so. |
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| 14:50.08 | jonadab | Right, in my case I just grep the error log for "doesnotexist". |
| 14:50.48 | jonadab | Since it happens once or twice a year, this is adequate for my needs. |
| 14:52.40 | teamjal_k-dawg | Hey, guys, just stopping by in here to say thanks for the great OS. I've been on ASCII for maybe about 9 months, and it's just been great. I really appreciate that you guys were able to branch off and get rid of systemd. I'll continue to buy Devuan merch in the future to support the development. Thanks everyone! |
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| 15:01.22 | FatPhil | seconded |
| 15:04.00 | ryuw | hola |
| 15:04.03 | ryuw | diavoletti |
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| 15:06.58 | jonadab | Devuan isn't just great: it's _necessary_. Otherwise we'd have all ended up doing some hybrid between staying on Wheezy forever, and manually compiling by hand everything that really needed to be upgraded, which eventually lands you in LFS territory. |
| 15:11.54 | Tom-_ | well, there's the debian-init-diversity effort. it's possible to install buster using packages from experimental and unstable. i've written up instructions but i haven't posted them on the www yet. sorry if this is offtopic |
| 15:11.59 | g0zzy | Got it folks. There was a symlink to my mailing script in if-up.d. DNS was failing and making it hang. I'm not needing DNS now as using exim4 to send the admin mail instead of sendEmail |
| 15:12.18 | Tom-_ | (the debian-init-diversity effort seems to be helped in equal parts by Devuan and other distributions) |
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| 15:24.10 | jonadab | The way I see it, in the long term, things can only really go three ways. 1. Ideally, the majority of distros eventually realize they should not be using systemd, and Devuan or something likes it effectively displaces Debian as the distro lots of other distros are based on (or Debian itself reverts to non-systemd; but that becomes more unlikely with every passing version). 2. Users who actually care |
| 15:24.31 | jonadab | about configurability gradually migrate away from Linux distros altogether, landing on another OS (possibly BSD). Or 3. It all becomes moot because of some catastrophy that knocks out civilization as we know it, probably by destroying all the power grids worldwide at once. |
| 15:24.39 | xinomilo_ | do you think missing init.d scripts in packages/daemons should be reported to bugs.debian as well ? |
| 15:25.36 | jonadab | Will it do any good? |
| 15:25.41 | jonadab | At this point, I just sort of figure Debian is poetteringed (which is a synonym for broken and useless). |
| 15:26.28 | xinomilo_ | i mean with the current init-diversity effort.. does it make sense or? |
| 15:26.34 | jonadab | Dunno. |
| 15:27.00 | jonadab | If there's a real chance Debian will recant and bring back reasonable init systems as a viable option, then sure. |
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| 15:27.53 | jonadab | But if they're going to keep marking systemd as a dependency for tons of different completely unrelated packages... |
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| 15:31.08 | James1138 | There are already websites against systemd - http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page |
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| 15:31.42 | James1138 | https://appuals.com/remove-systemd-ubuntu-permanently/ |
| 15:32.42 | James1138 | The 2nd link also says one of the choices is go Devuan. |
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| 15:39.53 | golinux | James1138: without-systemd.org has been around for nearly 5 years |
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| 15:40.15 | James1138 | Ahh.. my bad GoLinux |
| 15:40.21 | golinux | The second link is a little scary. |
| 15:40.36 | golinux | James1138: Well, it's new to you. :) |
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| 15:41.12 | golinux | Those of us who've been around since fall 2014 have a different perspective. |
| 15:43.15 | golinux | Dealing with an influx of former Ubuntu users would be "interesting". |
| 15:43.23 | jonadab | Sure. The fundamental design problems with systemd are well documented, and its implementation issues (bugs and so on) are reasonably well known too. |
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| 15:44.37 | golinux | But that is really getting OT for this channel. #debianfork is the place for that. |
| 15:44.39 | jonadab | But ultimately something like 98% of Linux users were using either one of two "core" distros (Debian or RedHat), or a distro that is directly or indirectly derived from them. So ultimately the decision to adopt systemd was made by a very small number of people. |
| 15:45.22 | jonadab | Devuan provides an important alternative. |
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| 15:52.01 | Tom-_ | jonadab, were you asking me the question "will it do any good"? |
| 15:52.20 | Tom-_ | is talking about Debian and trying to get them to not be all systemd all the time on topic here? |
| 15:53.08 | Tom-_ | i'm writing a message to the debian-init-diversity mailing list but I haven't sent it yet for fear that it will waste their time i guess |
| 15:53.15 | golinux | It is off topic in this channel |
| 15:53.41 | golinux | to vent on systemd |
| 15:54.05 | golinux | Please that that discussion to #debianfork |
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| 15:57.15 | b17wise | Hie all :) |
| 16:01.24 | James1138 | Going back to Devuan... question. I see things like "flashcache" and "Memcache" - is there a suggested memory and/or disk cache application that is SSD-friendly? Or is the whole cache thing unneeded? |
| 16:02.31 | James1138 | I already have "preload" installed. |
| 16:03.36 | jonadab | Flash memory has usually faster read times than a spinning-platter disk, so caching reads is somewhat _less_ necessary. But not pointless: DRAM is faster than Flash memory, and SRAM is faster yet. |
| 16:04.27 | jonadab | Not sure about relative write speeds. I know flash write speeds are much slower than flash read speeds, but I don't know how they compare to spinning-platter HD speeds. |
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| 16:05.20 | jonadab | Personally I tend to be annoyed at write caching on principle, but I can't deny the performance advantages in some use cases. |
| 16:05.50 | slvr | it buffers and flushes. You can mount with sync to prevent. |
| 16:07.04 | slvr | note that flash has faster SEEK time than spinning rust, not always more throughput. |
| 16:09.15 | James1138 | My Thinkpad T500 is already using Write-cache. Sounds like using SSD plus preload and write-cache... installing any extra cache and/or buffer application maybe a waste of time. |
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| 16:09.22 | b17wise | What device manager Devuan uses? udev or mdev? Is that Devuan packaging system vastly different from Debian? |
| 16:10.25 | jonadab | The packaging system is the same. |
| 16:10.47 | jonadab | Though certain packages are different. |
| 16:12.21 | FatPhil | b17wise: packaging's the same. eudev replaces systemd's udev. |
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| 16:16.10 | golinux | b17wise: Devuan has eudev |
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| 16:18.46 | b17wise | I see |
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| 17:45.11 | Evilham | and it has eth0 and the likes by default, eudev is pretty cool |
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| 18:03.29 | Walex | # |
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| 22:18.51 | golinux | agris: You can search specific websites with google and probably other search engines. I'm too lazy to go find it but I know it's very efficient because I have used it in the past. |
| 22:20.06 | golinux | In fact, I should probably start doing that on d1g because there are now quite a few users and posts and I can't remember where things are any more. |
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