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| 00:16.34 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ |
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| 07:21.07 | systemdlete | I need libcrypto++9, but even beowulf and ceres are still at libcrypto++6. This is a dependency of 3rd party software I am installing. Is there a way to get around this, and what are potential gotchas? thanks again |
| 07:22.09 | systemdlete | ah. Jessie-security |
| 07:22.46 | systemdlete | and jessie also... but not in ascii? |
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| 08:07.50 | yeti | grab the deb-src from jessie or beowulf(?) and try to build it on ascii |
| 08:08.33 | systemdlete | yeti: Figured out a different way, maybe a little unorthodox: I fetched the jessie versions from the repos. That mostly seems to have worked, but I need to test all this. |
| 08:10.18 | yeti | deb9..11 have it, so using deb9's version may⢠work with ascii... but I prefer to rebuild the deb-sources on the target system instead of using foreign binaries. |
| 08:10.22 | yeti | as plan a |
| 08:10.35 | yeti | sometimes that fails, then I dare to try foreign binaries |
| 08:10.58 | systemdlete | deb 9..11 do not have the version required for this package I am installing. |
| 08:11.18 | systemdlete | and they are coming from debian's repo. I assume that most packages there will work with devuan? |
| 08:11.46 | yeti | ups! i searched the ++6 one |
| 08:11.58 | yeti | ++9 is in jessie und partially sid... |
| 08:12.49 | systemdlete | "ups?" you mean "oops?" heheh |
| 08:13.00 | systemdlete | right. ++9 is in jessie, which is the one I needed. |
| 08:13.25 | systemdlete | the only problem I see is that a lot of OTHER software, via their deps, require these other versions |
| 08:13.42 | systemdlete | so I may have difficulty running, say, mysqld or the like. |
| 08:13.55 | yeti | why? |
| 08:14.17 | yeti | does it replace the files of the ++6 version? |
| 08:15.31 | systemdlete | not exactly the issue here. Some of the packages that came up during the install as deps had a "v5" added to the end of their names. |
| 08:16.10 | systemdlete | so a package like "libmediainfo0" was actually "libmediainfo0v5" |
| 08:16.34 | systemdlete | the other packages look for the v5 version, whereas this package I installed wants the "regular" one (no "v5") |
| 08:17.38 | systemdlete | so one package essentially nulls the deps of the other by removing them, and those packages! Which I really don't want. |
| 08:17.52 | systemdlete | I'm thinking of starting all over with devuan jessie. |
| 08:18.04 | systemdlete | But first I want to see if I can get things working as is. |
| 08:20.02 | systemdlete | does this make more sense? |
| 08:20.55 | systemdlete | I mean, maybe there is a far better approach, such as rebuilding the packages from source, as you suggested. |
| 08:21.28 | yeti | I'm testing to build that on ascii from sources |
| 08:21.54 | systemdlete | to build... "libmediainfo0?" |
| 08:22.27 | yeti | that ++9 thingy |
| 08:25.11 | systemdlete | oh! |
| 08:25.33 | systemdlete | there's a slew of others I needed also. I downloaded and gdebi'd them all in |
| 08:27.34 | yeti | nah... fails to build... incompatible with newer gcc? |
| 08:27.54 | yeti | dware, â buZz |
| 08:28.13 | yeti | ups... cannot cut&paste between VM and chat |
| 08:28.31 | systemdlete | http://paste.debian.net/1101547/ has a list of all the packages I've had to gdebi so far. There could be more, idk yet. |
| 08:28.42 | systemdlete | I don't think so. |
| 08:28.57 | yeti | a warning about a convrsion of a constant is treated as error. and wirh crypto stuff I wouldnt ignore that |
| 08:29.10 | systemdlete | nods. |
| 08:29.28 | systemdlete | that's why I asked about repercussions, above, before you responded |
| 08:29.34 | systemdlete | so, there's one. |
| 08:29.55 | yeti | that needs a look from someone knowing more about it than me |
| 08:30.07 | systemdlete | I'm really becoming convinced that the best solution here would be to begin with jessie, not ascii |
| 08:30.13 | systemdlete | (devuan jessie of course) |
| 08:30.58 | systemdlete | but, then again... if you are telling me there's a bug in the older version, I'd be getting that there too, right? |
| 08:31.37 | yeti | a warning that now is treated as error |
| 08:31.43 | yeti | this could be turned off |
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| 08:32.02 | yeti | but I definitely am not knowing which consequences this has |
| 08:32.04 | systemdlete | "now" -- you mean in the ascii versions of the packages? |
| 08:32.21 | yeti | mayne the gcc in jessi did not see that as serious but the newer one in ascii does |
| 08:32.23 | systemdlete | or in the older, jessie? |
| 08:32.28 | systemdlete | oh! |
| 08:32.39 | yeti | I tried on ascii |
| 08:32.40 | systemdlete | thanks for that clarification! |
| 08:33.36 | systemdlete | but still, doesn't this mean that there could be a real-live problem with jessie's crypto? |
| 08:33.56 | systemdlete | I mean, if it is ignoring or otherwise not handling it |
| 08:34.14 | yeti | maybe jessie's gcc overlooked the problem. |
| 08:34.29 | systemdlete | a lot of people are using ascii and its crypto |
| 08:34.30 | yeti | I cannot make a definitive statement |
| 08:34.34 | systemdlete | I know |
| 08:34.39 | systemdlete | I'm just worried |
| 08:35.23 | yeti | maybe ask someone in debian why it isnt in current stable? |
| 08:35.38 | systemdlete | with my nick? Are you nutz? LOL |
| 08:35.39 | yeti | they must have had a reason to kick it out |
| 08:35.58 | systemdlete | I'd have to change my nick. |
| 08:36.23 | yeti | and? |
| 08:36.30 | yeti | you only have 1 nick? |
| 08:36.31 | systemdlete | does this error happen with ++9, or only ++6? |
| 08:36.32 | yeti | :-Ã |
| 08:36.44 | systemdlete | (I'm a poor man, so let it be...) |
| 08:36.51 | yeti | I only tried to build ++9 on ascii |
| 08:36.55 | systemdlete | oh |
| 08:37.14 | systemdlete | that might be why, actually. Maybe they ran into the same error. |
| 08:37.38 | yeti | maybe on some of their mailing lists is some talk about that |
| 08:37.40 | systemdlete | no, I have a few extra nicks laying around somewhere. |
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| 08:39.21 | systemdlete | looks through his drawers, attic, garage... |
| 08:39.57 | yeti | the old nicks container... |
| 08:40.03 | systemdlete | ooh, I know! I could go as "guest3981" or something like that |
| 08:40.18 | yeti | "wasnt_me" |
| 08:40.29 | systemdlete | "imjustaskin" |
| 08:40.49 | systemdlete | "systemdsoooocoolman" |
| 08:40.56 | systemdlete | "noreallyitis" |
| 08:41.02 | yeti | systemE |
| 08:41.26 | systemdlete | E? |
| 08:41.42 | yeti | that name already exists somewhere... I remember a GUI theme with that name |
| 08:41.45 | systemdlete | in Canada, I think they call it systemEh |
| 08:42.37 | yeti | I think one of the kde2 or -3 windoews themes had that name |
| 08:42.55 | yeti | sytstem-e? |
| 08:43.46 | systemdlete | https://github.com/cryfs/cryfs/issues/56 "Ok I'm a bit confused by their versioning scheme. Seems libcrypto++9 is Crypto++ 5.6.1 and libcrypto++6 is actually newer with Crypto++ 5.6.3." |
| 08:43.47 | fsmithred | not fully caught up here, but did you guys notice that the ++6 version has a higher version number than the ++9 version? |
| 08:44.06 | systemdlete | fsmithred, see immediately above |
| 08:44.16 | systemdlete | weird! |
| 08:44.18 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 08:44.47 | systemdlete | so I think the software I am installing is built against older ware |
| 08:45.02 | yeti | so just rebuilding the deb-src of the other stuff against the ++6 version might do it |
| 08:45.23 | systemdlete | feels a headache coming on... |
| 08:45.35 | yeti | systemdlete: set up some VMs to experiment... |
| 08:45.39 | fsmithred | or possibly a symlink would do it |
| 08:46.00 | systemdlete | well, actually, if this works as is, I'm good. |
| 08:46.23 | systemdlete | My worry was about that compile error. |
| 08:46.27 | yeti | trashed at least 2 beowulfs and 2 ceres within the last 7 days... but who cares... VMs! |
| 08:46.54 | systemdlete | since the ++6 version is actually newer and no reported problem (we assume...) then all should be good |
| 08:47.13 | systemdlete | yeti: Yes, that is one of the many joys of virtualization |
| 08:47.27 | systemdlete | and I admit I don't exploit it nearly enough as I could |
| 08:47.43 | yeti | I'm using naked qemu |
| 08:48.01 | systemdlete | turns his eyes away, for modesty |
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| 08:48.42 | fsmithred | be careful with virtualization - you can fill up a hard disk in no time at all. |
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| 08:49.06 | systemdlete | And I have, believe me. It has been so much fun, I had to get larger disks. |
| 08:49.08 | yeti | I threw away a lot of VMs some weeks ago... |
| 08:49.13 | fsmithred | me too |
| 08:49.19 | systemdlete | I did that just this afternoon. |
| 08:49.20 | fsmithred | and a bunch of live-isos |
| 08:49.23 | systemdlete | yep. |
| 08:49.33 | systemdlete | house cleaning and tidying |
| 08:49.59 | systemdlete | found some VMs in the wrong directories, and couldn't move them using vbox tools. So I just deleted them. |
| 08:50.10 | systemdlete | Just some experiments anyway. |
| 08:50.16 | yeti | I dont know these tools |
| 08:50.26 | yeti | using only qemu I am the manager |
| 08:50.37 | yeti | I move them as I want |
| 08:50.53 | systemdlete | vbox just upgraded from v5 to v6, and once again, they changed the UI, and god knows what else |
| 08:51.04 | yeti | never trust a GUI |
| 08:51.19 | yeti | and GUIs make 10% of global warming! |
| 08:51.21 | yeti | :-Ã |
| 08:51.36 | yeti | Vrijdays vor vt00!!! |
| 08:51.39 | systemdlete | for the longest time, I couldn't even get the "groups" function to work. And no one at vbox seemed to know which feature I was talking about. They thought I meant unix groups. |
| 08:51.41 | yeti | vt100 |
| 08:51.51 | fsmithred | javascript accounts for the other 90% |
| 08:52.00 | systemdlete | I thought Edge did. |
| 08:52.17 | systemdlete | or whatever MS calls its web bowser |
| 08:52.35 | yeti | ok... my xterms run in some GUI too... unluckily WWW and Mail force me to have it... |
| 08:52.52 | yeti | but the rest of the day "I live in xterm+screen" |
| 08:53.00 | systemdlete | there are cmd line mail readers |
| 08:53.05 | systemdlete | pine |
| 08:53.15 | yeti | i get too much "multimedia mail" |
| 08:53.28 | systemdlete | I used to use it back in the dark days before so-called "desktops" |
| 08:53.41 | sixwheeledbeast | there's also lynx for www |
| 08:54.03 | yeti | w3m can do images... but the pages look soooo ugly, you cannot find what you're looking for |
| 08:54.16 | fsmithred | images without X? |
| 08:54.21 | yeti | yip! |
| 08:54.28 | yeti | ooor? |
| 08:54.43 | yeti | maybe that's using sixels? |
| 08:54.59 | yeti | then a higher versioned vtXXX (300?) would do it |
| 08:55.05 | fsmithred | you lost me |
| 08:55.09 | systemdlete | wonders how much AGW can be attributed to systemd |
| 08:55.28 | yeti | some younger terminals could do lineprinter like graphics |
| 08:55.35 | yeti | "sixels" |
| 08:55.45 | yeti | maybe w3m is using that in XTerm |
| 08:56.16 | yeti | there is even a sixel-xserver |
| 08:56.16 | fsmithred | links2 is kinda nice - makes the web look like the 90's |
| 08:56.18 | sixwheeledbeast | meh, some stuff is better with a GUI some better on CLI, IMO use the most appropriate tool. |
| 08:56.19 | systemdlete | so it looks like an atari or commodore terminal? |
| 08:56.37 | yeti | sixwheeledbeast: sure I would not want a text version of KiCAD |
| 08:56.39 | yeti | :-Ã |
| 08:57.16 | yeti | but since the days of my windows trauma, I cannot trust a GUI |
| 08:57.30 | systemdlete | some people never recover from Windows |
| 08:57.50 | yeti | if a GUI is optional, it's ok |
| 08:57.52 | systemdlete | multiple episodes of BSOD can cause permanent damage |
| 08:58.25 | yeti | cd \#debianfork # ? |
| 08:58.35 | systemdlete | see you there |
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| 08:58.43 | yeti | :-) |
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| 09:59.20 | free_speech | mail, web and IRC are the only reasons for me to have a GUI installed ... everything that differs from the mentioned uses can be done in CLI very well ... |
| 10:04.44 | djph | free_speech: you need a GUI for IRC? |
| 10:04.51 | djph | and mail? |
| 10:07.18 | free_speech | is there a CLI Mail-Client which can handle more than just one mailadress? |
| 10:07.32 | free_speech | I am always very thankful for tips and tricks I didn't yet know ... |
| 10:08.38 | free_speech | same for IRC ... I don't use only one channel ... not even only one server ... |
| 10:09.29 | omnio | weechat is very nice for an IRC client without GUI |
| 10:12.46 | tarzeau | likes irssi inside screen |
| 10:13.03 | tarzeau | and links2 for web browsing the latest -g gui also supports own vector fonts (ttf/otf) |
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| 10:15.04 | djph | yep, use irssi in screen myself. |
| 10:15.31 | djph | mutt can do multiple mail addresses, I just haven't ever had the need (secondary / tertiary are pretty much spam nowadays ) |
| 10:17.42 | yeti | is using >40 channels on >6 servers (and bitlbee) with weechat |
| 10:18.03 | yeti | via mosh+screen on a cubietruck |
| 10:19.40 | yeti | xchat's ctcp replies were funnier... but that's the only thing I miss since switching |
| 10:20.08 | omnio | to follow >40 channels I'd need my day to have 48 hours |
| 10:20.13 | yeti | xchat could do multi line replies on ctcp... |
| 10:20.44 | yeti | omnio: some of them are just for following software projects and being able to search the logs for errors |
| 10:21.30 | yeti | some->most |
| 10:21.33 | yeti | .-) |
| 10:22.30 | yeti | and a 100hres day is on my wish list for at least 2 decades now, but santa refuses... |
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| 10:40.49 | Acacia | w3m is using some weird trickery with xorg to display images, they're just overlaid on your terminal. no sixel |
| 10:58.58 | yeti | https://bitbucket.org/arakiken/w3m/branch/remoteimg then that is different to w3m-img |
| 10:59.09 | yeti | but a sixelish w3m exists |
| 10:59.19 | yeti | just thought w3m-img were the same |
| 11:00.39 | yeti | http://mlterm.sourceforge.net/ should work with a framebuffer |
| 11:00.46 | yeti | and can do sixels |
| 11:01.18 | yeti | and that way life without X could come nearer |
| 11:01.31 | yeti | and if all else fails, there is a sixel-xserver |
| 11:02.05 | yeti | someday I need to try that (in a VM?) |
| 11:02.22 | yeti | https://github.com/saitoha/libsixel |
| 11:02.32 | yeti | unluckily standard screen lacks sixel support |
| 11:02.35 | yeti | :-( |
| 11:04.07 | Hurgotron | free_speech: I assume you mean text mode instead cli... I've been using mutt for email for 20 years or so now. and multi-window ircii for a long time. (But since I neeeded a GUI anyway for other stuff, it's now xchat) |
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| 14:34.12 | buZz | does anyone know what the 'eve' kworker does? |
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| 14:40.08 | buZz | ah |
| 14:40.09 | buZz | Name: kworker/1:2-events |
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| 14:49.16 | adlpaf | Hi everyone! Someone knows how to download an ISO for Devuan testing or experimental? |
| 14:49.32 | fsmithred | no official isos yet |
| 14:49.47 | fsmithred | some of the derivatives have isos based on beowulf (out testing) |
| 14:50.27 | buZz | adlpaf: i -think- there are tools to make one if you really want to |
| 14:50.30 | adlpaf | So, do I have to install the stable version and then pass to testing? |
| 14:50.40 | buZz | adlpaf: but recommended way for now is just install stable and then distupgrade |
| 14:50.41 | fsmithred | you can do that. |
| 14:50.45 | buZz | until its officially released |
| 14:51.00 | fsmithred | just install a minimal system first, then upgrade, then install your apps. |
| 14:51.00 | buZz | also, plz report bugs you encounter during the distupgrade to the ML |
| 14:51.01 | buZz | :) |
| 14:51.33 | buZz | its quite good already, there's not many big issues you could encounter |
| 14:51.38 | buZz | but more eyes see more bugs |
| 14:51.47 | adlpaf | Ok! Thanks a lot fsmithred and buZz |
| 14:51.49 | fsmithred | you may run into some conflicts around policykit and related things |
| 14:52.06 | adlpaf | Definetly hahaha |
| 14:52.10 | buZz | :) |
| 14:52.12 | buZz | cool adlpaf |
| 14:53.11 | adlpaf | Well! I'll try to do it into a VM, to see better what's going on |
| 14:53.22 | nemo | so... I read that mailing list thing from the other day. debian is seriously proposing packaging that eliminates alternate init support? |
| 14:53.49 | buZz | oh, that would increase our workload a lot |
| 14:54.37 | Wonka | really? assholes. |
| 14:54.41 | nemo | maybe I misread which was why I asked |
| 14:54.42 | adlpaf | That is one of the reason that I want to use another distro, especially Devuan |
| 14:55.03 | buZz | nemo: have a link to the archive? |
| 14:55.19 | nemo | yeah looking for it |
| 14:55.38 | buZz | adlpaf: with enough users we can do everything ;) |
| 14:55.55 | Wonka | buZz: with enough contributors. |
| 14:56.09 | nemo | 17:39 < gnu_srs> Hi; this is a must read: Sam is a very sensible person: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html |
| 14:56.12 | nemo | 17:39 < gnu_srs> Hi; this is a must read: Sam is a very sensible person: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html |
| 14:56.12 | adlpaf | YEs, it is |
| 14:56.12 | buZz | right, assuming X users always leads to X/something contributers |
| 14:56.15 | nemo | ack |
| 14:56.17 | nemo | sorry I'm using the crappy mouse today |
| 14:56.22 | nemo | it tends to double-send middle click |
| 14:57.14 | fsmithred | mine no longer sends a middle click. Can I have one of yours? |
| 14:57.58 | nemo | heh |
| 14:58.11 | nemo | fsmithred: forgot my decentish mouse at work ⺠|
| 14:59.21 | buZz | nemo: kinda reads like 'systemd is causing issues but we dont want to have these issues at all and dont know what to do' |
| 15:00.14 | buZz | but yeah, kinda looks bad for elogind |
| 15:00.51 | buZz | although we already have our own elogind packages it seems? |
| 15:00.56 | buZz | https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/elogind |
| 15:01.04 | nemo | " |
| 15:01.05 | nemo | So perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it is |
| 15:01.05 | nemo | time to move on. |
| 15:01.05 | nemo | So perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it is |
| 15:01.07 | nemo | aaaagh |
| 15:01.18 | nemo | ok. ctrl-shift-v for now |
| 15:01.21 | buZz | nemo: yeah 'perhaps' being the keyword |
| 15:01.27 | buZz | nemo: shift-ins? :D |
| 15:01.38 | nemo | "But right now there are no non-linux ports in the |
| 15:01.40 | nemo | main archive. So perhaps we don't even care about that" |
| 15:01.46 | nemo | that seems to be leaning more on the scale there |
| 15:01.54 | nemo | "Again, a |
| 15:01.55 | nemo | change, but a change that we can ask ourselves if we are ready to make." |
| 15:02.01 | nemo | seems like he's trying to cautiously sell it to me |
| 15:02.10 | buZz | debian has non-linux versions? |
| 15:02.18 | buZz | oh right, there's some freebsd debian i guess |
| 15:02.56 | nemo | I wonder what hypothetically devuan could do in a situation like that |
| 15:03.15 | buZz | lol from elogind readme ; |
| 15:03.16 | nemo | maintain a running set of patches from the debian changes to packaging for /etc/init.d etc? |
| 15:03.16 | buZz | > All of the credit for elogind should go to the systemd developers. |
| 15:03.19 | nemo | haha |
| 15:03.52 | nemo | welp. my fallback plan personally will just be gentoo on all my machines |
| 15:04.02 | buZz | i dno, it might just cause a new wave of devuan users inbound ;) |
| 15:04.04 | nemo | it's a shame because I like the convenience and extensive support of debian |
| 15:04.13 | buZz | whatever this ML will decide, it wont be for buster/beowulf |
| 15:05.10 | buZz | so worstcase , devuan just splits more from upstream debian |
| 15:05.20 | buZz | and atm not -that- many packages depend on systemd |
| 15:05.31 | buZz | or init system at all |
| 15:05.47 | buZz | so, even though it looks kinda bad, it might not be all that bad |
| 15:05.52 | Wonka | well, those that come with unit files but not init files would need fixing |
| 15:06.10 | buZz | right, -if- they decide to remove them |
| 15:06.18 | Wonka | ack |
| 15:06.20 | buZz | which the ML doesnt say, it just denotes some conflict |
| 15:06.39 | Wonka | but even a "don't care" decision would be bad enough |
| 15:07.02 | nemo | I *have* manually "fixed" a work package to add an init script and it wasn't terrible |
| 15:07.08 | nemo | since most init scripts don't do anything very interesting |
| 15:07.11 | buZz | yeah .. well i assume it'll work out, most contributors on devuan are highly motivated to keep devuan alive |
| 15:07.26 | buZz | if not all :) |
| 15:07.35 | Wonka | If I fixed up an init script for a debian package, I'd always at least try to get it into the debian package |
| 15:08.10 | nemo | Wonka: oh. nice. that's a good idea |
| 15:08.17 | nemo | Wonka: serves double purpose |
| 15:08.21 | Wonka | can't hurt much, at least |
| 15:08.30 | nemo | shows visibility/interest and helps the distro |
| 15:08.48 | nemo | I always enable popcon on my devuan machines |
| 15:08.49 | Wonka | helps both debian and devuan, if it succeeds |
| 15:08.53 | nemo | I realise it's a totally inaccurate vote |
| 15:09.14 | nemo | but even if devuan folks are ballot stuffing it shows they care⦠|
| 15:09.26 | Wonka | yep |
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| 17:01.25 | klaus | hi all |
| 17:01.54 | klaus | how could prevent my browser to accessing a specific ip ? |
| 17:02.25 | buZz | nullroute the IP in iptables? |
| 17:02.52 | klaus | is this the simpliest way to go about doing this kind of things ? |
| 17:02.53 | buZz | something like iptables -I OUTPUT -t 192.168.1.100 -j DROP |
| 17:03.05 | buZz | TIMTOWDI klaus ;) |
| 17:03.12 | buZz | there is more then one way to do it |
| 17:03.16 | buZz | == timtowdi |
| 17:04.42 | klaus | i get : can't initialize iptables table `192.168.1.100': Table does not exist |
| 17:05.21 | buZz | eh derp, yeah |
| 17:05.31 | buZz | -d instead of -t |
| 17:05.38 | buZz | destination, not target ;) |
| 17:05.52 | buZz | klaus: dont you need to edit that IP ? :P |
| 17:06.37 | klaus | yes i did, i just used the same example you provided to report the problem i had |
| 17:06.48 | buZz | :) |
| 17:06.54 | klaus | it works |
| 17:07.00 | buZz | \o/ |
| 17:07.03 | DonkeyHotei | i'd do REJECT instead of DROP |
| 17:07.09 | buZz | https://linux.die.net/man/8/iptables |
| 17:07.13 | buZz | many stuff can be done |
| 17:07.23 | buZz | you could also bind that IP to your lo interface :P |
| 17:07.23 | buZz | lol |
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| 17:08.34 | klaus | reject doesn't have my browser trying to connect to the ip but almost immediately shows a 'unable to connect' message |
| 17:08.38 | klaus | which is better |
| 17:09.05 | klaus | now if only i could even prevent the tab to open at all that would be perfect |
| 17:09.34 | klaus | but it's already a lot better, tahnks for the help buZz, DonkeyHotei |
| 17:09.40 | buZz | \o/ |
| 17:09.52 | buZz | klaus: what tab is it? |
| 17:09.59 | buZz | i mean, what service are you trying to prevent using? |
| 17:10.39 | klaus | it's a movie streaming site i use, every two or three clicks, it opens a new tab that leads me to some bullshit ads |
| 17:11.33 | klaus | the movie streaming site works well, but i just wanted it to stop spamming me by opening new tabs with ads |
| 17:12.52 | Hurgotron | use an ad blocker? |
| 17:13.09 | Hurgotron | ublock origin... |
| 17:14.06 | klaus | i already use ublock origin |
| 17:14.18 | klaus | this bypasses it |
| 17:14.58 | klaus | i tried to look for some place in ublock settings to specify an ip to ignore, but i didn't succeed |
| 17:15.19 | klaus | i tried to add "* ip * block", in my rules |
| 17:15.40 | klaus | but that didn't seem to make any change at all |
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| 17:16.06 | nemo | klaus: huh. so the ads are probably hosted locally and since JS is required for your streaming... |
| 17:16.14 | nemo | klaus: you'll probably still get tabs, just with empty content |
| 17:16.28 | nemo | which isn't gonna reduce the annoyance enormously |
| 17:16.50 | nemo | klaus: you probably need some sort of custom filter for that site, like one that clears the click events |
| 17:16.51 | klaus | nemo: yes with the iptable rule, i get the tab, but nothing in it, it's already better |
| 17:16.56 | nemo | kk |
| 17:17.07 | nemo | klaus: violentmonkey might be the way to go |
| 17:17.38 | klaus | is that a firefox addon that would allow me to blacklist ips ? |
| 17:17.59 | nemo | klaus: BTW, years ago, I ran a browser profile for a few weeks with regular browsing. then took the top 30 or so most frequently set cookie domains and mapped them all to 255.255.255.255 in djbdns ð |
| 17:18.47 | buZz | klaus: uBlock origin |
| 17:18.49 | nemo | klaus: I think there are probably a ton of site blockers in addons |
| 17:18.55 | buZz | blocks practically -all- ads for me |
| 17:18.56 | nemo | klaus: you know, intended usually for parental blocking |
| 17:19.37 | klaus | buZz: visiting that site (with ublock installed): moviemagnet.unblocked.nz/movies/genre/ |
| 17:20.00 | klaus | every few click i get a new tab that point there (ads): http://35.224.227.218/MTgzMzE4MzE1MDI3LzE4MzMxOTkzODAzMi8weHIyc2UxZHh5 |
| 17:20.01 | nemo | buZz: it's gonna have a hard time stopping local onclick events like his⦠|
| 17:20.16 | klaus | it always starts with this ip 35.224.227.218 |
| 17:20.19 | nemo | but I bet filtering the click events would be pretty easy |
| 17:20.34 | klaus | this completely bypass ublock origin |
| 17:21.01 | buZz | nemo: not that i have found |
| 17:21.15 | buZz | klaus: not ublock, ublock origin |
| 17:21.26 | klaus | buZz: that's what i use |
| 17:21.30 | buZz | ok |
| 17:21.44 | nemo | klaus: interesting. after whitelisting the site for javascript I got a new popup tab on the reload of the initial 404 page you'd sent us to |
| 17:21.50 | nemo | klaus: so it probably doesn't even require clicks |
| 17:21.54 | nemo | is most likely in onload |
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| 17:22.18 | nemo | klaus: hm. wish they had VF content |
| 17:23.23 | klaus | french dubbing is usualy utter crap |
| 17:23.40 | nemo | klaus: it varies in quality but I'm largely in agreement |
| 17:23.58 | nemo | klaus: the problem is that I'm trying to raise at least one bilingual kid |
| 17:24.12 | nemo | in the united states which is basically 100% american english |
| 17:24.28 | nemo | so if they are gonna go for entertainment dammit it could at least serve a secondary purpose |
| 17:25.03 | klaus | when i study a language, i like to use movies/series, then video games, and books |
| 17:25.26 | klaus | i played resident evil in french, english, japanese and german :) |
| 17:26.12 | klaus | of course you need games that let you pause and confortably read content |
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| 17:26.40 | klaus | children books are nice too, i like ghost story haunted mansion, kind |
| 17:26.50 | Evilham | nemo: you are readoing only one part of that email |
| 17:26.50 | Evilham | it is not proposing that, it is claiming that debian, as a whole, has to figure out some general guidelines, because without those general guidelines, everyone ends up being frustrated |
| 17:26.51 | Evilham | so, one of the possible outcomes is that |
| 17:26.52 | Evilham | but it's not the only one, and the DPL certainly doesn't make a case for that |
| 17:26.52 | Evilham | jeez, don't just skim, read |
| 17:26.53 | Evilham | things are carefully worded, the situation is quite properly explained |
| 17:26.54 | Evilham | elogind was in devuan before debian IIRC |
| 17:26.54 | Evilham | and devuan is the upstream |
| 17:26.55 | Evilham | pff, I don't have the mental energy to repeat that you shouldn't read sentecnes, but the whole thing |
| 17:26.56 | Evilham | not anymore, it's out of archive |
| 17:26.57 | Evilham | anyway, if you keep picking sentences out of that email, you are contributing to inter-community misunderstandings |
| 17:26.57 | Evilham | it really isn't something that you can pick sentences from, but a full text piece to be read carefully and consciously |
| 17:26.58 | Evilham | probable case: things are clarified and it's easier to work with debian |
| 17:26.59 | Evilham | but of course everything ahs to be the worst case :-) |
| 17:26.59 | Evilham | anyway, better move this to #debian-fork or #debianfork, however that's called |
| 17:27.00 | Evilham | this is being utterly unproductive |
| 17:27.18 | klaus | someone's clipboard got berserk |
| 17:27.25 | buZz | klaus: fyi, i use https://torrentz2.eu/ for magnets usually |
| 17:27.51 | buZz | maybe thats unblocked on your isp? its got a shitton indexed anyway |
| 17:27.58 | buZz | but not as clean as moviemagnets, i agree |
| 17:28.13 | klaus | buZz: yes it's good to find something specific you search for. but about movies, i want to browse, see the cover, rating, and synopsis |
| 17:28.14 | Evilham | grrr delayed messages because of networking issues |
| 17:28.16 | Evilham | just ignore |
| 17:28.28 | Evilham | sorry for the noise |
| 17:28.35 | buZz | klaus: i understand, you miss popcorntime ;) |
| 17:29.17 | Evilham | the offtopic hint does apply though :-D |
| 17:30.14 | klaus | i must confess i never used iptables much |
| 17:30.15 | buZz | Evilham: i agree with your interpretation of the email being less negative then earlier suggested |
| 17:31.24 | Evilham | I'm glad, last thing we need is people going nuts because a phrase is taken out of context |
| 17:32.11 | nemo | I've read it a few times. I focused on that paragraph because it was the one that bothered me the most |
| 17:32.49 | buZz | going nuts isnt in anyone's favor :) |
| 17:33.35 | nemo | klaus: she's starting to get into games. her reading is still a WIP |
| 17:33.43 | nemo | klaus: hopefully will advance on that front this year |
| 17:33.50 | buZz | hmmm , i wanna log if my laptop is on charger , over time, so i can see how much time i charge it per day |
| 17:34.08 | buZz | does anyone have a good idea for a logging format that doesnt fill my disks too much? :P |
| 17:34.42 | Evilham | buZz: I like prometheus for htis kind of timeseries |
| 17:34.49 | Evilham | flexible, somewhat lean, does the job well |
| 17:34.53 | buZz | oh hmm, tnx i think , just got an idea , just log current state and only log current timestamp when state has changed |
| 17:34.59 | buZz | Evilham: my target system has 32MB ram :P |
| 17:35.02 | klaus | nemo: learning languages is fun thing to do, but if it's a children, you need to make him or her see that. |
| 17:35.15 | Evilham | uh :-D |
| 17:35.26 | klaus | most child might think it's heavy and boring |
| 17:35.28 | nemo | klaus: var adcashMacros={sub1:"",sub2:""},zoneSett={r:"1623005"},urls={cdnUrls:["//fbcdn2.com","//uptimecdn.com"],cdnIndex:0,rand:Math.random(),events:["click","mousedown","touchstart"], â this one looks very much like the one that's probably causing you pain |
| 17:35.43 | buZz | prometheus looks a -bit- too fancy for 32MB ram :P |
| 17:36.04 | Evilham | tiny bit, yes |
| 17:36.14 | buZz | Evilham: this system btw ; https://nurdspace.nl/Zipit_Z2 |
| 17:36.15 | buZz | ;) |
| 17:36.26 | buZz | not something most ppl would use |
| 17:36.36 | nemo | klaus: in inspector you can immediately see some top level events on the <html> even on your error page which is a great minimal testcase |
| 17:36.44 | klaus | nemo: that maybe but then i don't know what to do about it |
| 17:36.46 | buZz | but its my main 'i'm cooking but i want irc near' machine ;) |
| 17:36.47 | Evilham | lel, cute |
| 17:36.53 | buZz | Evilham: cheap too |
| 17:37.01 | buZz | ~30 usd gets you one on ebay |
| 17:37.04 | Evilham | anyway :-D all this should really go to the OT channel |
| 17:37.08 | nemo | klaus: I'm gonna try to make a violentmonkey override. one moment |
| 17:37.12 | nemo | klaus: this sorta thing entertains me |
| 17:37.13 | Evilham | otherwise catching up is hell |
| 17:37.21 | klaus | nemo: thanks :) |
| 17:37.28 | buZz | Evilham: no worries, the topic was already settled i think ;) |
| 17:37.45 | buZz | i think we all agree that devuan will overcome |
| 17:39.11 | nemo | klaus: in this particular case I started from year 0 so it is natural. it's just a question of maintenance due to the environment |
| 17:39.37 | nemo | klaus: I think it's helped her with sign language (which she quite enjoys) and italian |
| 17:39.38 | klaus | btw it wasn't and error page i just missed the last character in the link i pasted |
| 17:40.12 | klaus | https://moviemagnet.unblocked.nz/movies/genre/7 |
| 17:40.21 | klaus | i missed the 7 |
| 17:41.49 | klaus | how old is she ? english, french, italian, and sign language that's quite some already |
| 17:41.53 | buZz | klaus: doesnt the original work for you? http://moviemagnet.co/ |
| 17:42.07 | buZz | that doesnt seem to have those injected ads |
| 17:42.26 | klaus | buZz: yes, probably i just use that link: https://unblocked.cam/ |
| 17:42.47 | klaus | to unblock lots of sites like that, that my country is blocking |
| 17:42.53 | buZz | seems whoever runs that is getting rich from ads ;) |
| 17:43.36 | klaus | ads are like cancer.. |
| 17:43.55 | nemo | klaus: 7 |
| 17:44.14 | klaus | maybe tomorrow they will find a way to insert ads in your foods, inside your steack or fruits ;) |
| 17:44.27 | yeti | dreams |
| 17:44.54 | klaus | nemo: she speaks more language than me at 7 ;) |
| 18:14.23 | nemo | klaus: pinged you in PM |
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| 18:22.28 | nemo | klaus: FWIW, I think the quality of french dubbing has improved quite a lot lately, for disney in particular |
| 18:22.50 | nemo | klaus: they've clearly thrown money at it. and international dubbing in general |
| 18:23.00 | nemo | I'm sure you've seen the i18n frozen song youtube video |
| 18:23.21 | DonkeyHotei | there are multiple such videos |
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| 18:32.35 | nemo | DonkeyHotei: yeah, I meant the one disney released to show off |
| 18:32.40 | nemo | with the actual singers in-studio |
| 18:33.19 | nemo | moana. similar thing. high quality song video VF released by disney for the feature song |
| 18:33.25 | nemo | they've been doing that a lot |
| 18:33.56 | nemo | I guess compared to the other production expenses it's a minor one that's gotten them a decent return, and nowdays editing stuff inside the renderings is a lot easier |
| 18:35.11 | golinux | Here I thought this was a Devuan support channel |
| 18:35.29 | golinux | Please move OT to #debianfork |
| 18:36.04 | golinux | should have that on speed dial |
| 18:36.17 | onefang | Or maybe #disney? |
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| 19:04.43 | yeti | someone could program that into an attiny85 which will play usb keyboard wit 1 key... |
| 19:05.28 | yeti | and a big red button... ;-) |
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| 19:13.37 | golinux | onefang: Indeed. Most of what happens on this channel these days is bad comedy |
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| 21:02.31 | phillipsjk | Am I correct in assuming getting Steam to run under devuan would be a pain in the butt? (Valve recommends Ubuntu 18.04 LTS) |
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| 21:06.08 | james1138 | https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/1745605598716363897/ |
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| 21:06.50 | james1138 | https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux#Debian |
| 21:07.31 | james1138 | https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=steam&searchon=names&exact=1&suite=all§ion=all |
| 21:08.00 | james1138 | Not a problem installing Steam/Valve at all. |
| 21:13.23 | phillipsjk | Is intalling Debian packages advised on devuan? |
| 21:13.42 | fsmithred | adding debian repos to sources.list can result in disaster |
| 21:14.15 | fsmithred | you are getting debian packages from devuan repos with the exception of the few we repackage |
| 21:15.10 | fsmithred | if you're talking about third-party packages, those generally work. ascii=stretch, beowulf(testing)=buster(stable) |
| 21:15.56 | phillipsjk | Is there a testing repo if we want newer drivers? |
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| 21:16.19 | phillipsjk | IC Beowulf |
| 21:16.27 | fsmithred | yeah, beowulf is our testing repo. We don't have a repo that corresponds to bullseye yet |
| 21:16.59 | fsmithred | when we release beowulf, our stable and testing will be the same as debian's |
| 21:17.42 | fsmithred | make sense? |
| 21:19.24 | phillipsjk | Yes, was conidering testing for a newer kernel as well (was considering btrfs) https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Changelog#By_version_.28linux_kernel.29_4.x |
| 21:20.28 | fsmithred | beowulf has 4.19 |
| 21:20.39 | phillipsjk | Is the best way to install testing to install ASCII, then do a dist-upgrade? |
| 21:20.42 | fsmithred | you could install a minimal ascii and upgrade |
| 21:20.45 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 21:21.11 | gnarface | for what it's worth 4.19 is in ascii-backports too though |
| 21:21.19 | fsmithred | don't install a full desktop from the installer or you'll run into kit trouble |
| 21:21.23 | fsmithred | oh yeah, ascii-backports |
| 21:30.55 | fsmithred | btrfs is also in ascii-backports |
| 21:31.46 | fsmithred | you can check versions at pkginfo.devuan.org |
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| 21:36.21 | gnarface | oh this is about btrfs? you might need some other backports packages to go along with it |
| 21:36.40 | phillipsjk | Well, thank-you for you help. Just need to decide how to partition my disks now. (definitely needs to be 4k aligned, but think that is the defualt these days) |
| 21:37.05 | gnarface | there is also btrfs-progs, btrfs-tools, btrfs-heatmap, btrfs-compsize, and a bunch of btrfs-modules-[kernel and arch info] packages |
| 21:37.12 | gnarface | all in backports |
| 21:38.05 | gnarface | i recommend taking a look but don't just install everything from backports, that usually ends badly |
| 21:38.23 | phillipsjk | I think I will try testing. It will probably be "stable" eventually. |
| 21:38.39 | gnarface | it will but you should still make a backup first |
| 21:39.14 | gnarface | testing and unstable are prone to a certain category of breakages that the stable version isn't typically exposed to |
| 21:39.29 | phillipsjk | New computer, plan to SSH to the computer where my work is *really* stored. |
| 21:39.42 | gnarface | ah, well have fun then |
| 21:40.13 | gnarface | if you avoid the graphical login stuff then you will probably avoid the bulk of the current problems with testing |
| 21:40.47 | phillipsjk | So just invoke startx directly? |
| 21:40.56 | gnarface | yea |
| 21:41.25 | gnarface | though you might run into some unexpected changes in Xorg and how permissions are handled for certain drivers, it depends on the hardware you're using |
| 21:41.41 | phillipsjk | had broken X11 on freeBSD for over a year. |
| 21:42.13 | gnarface | they've been merging out the default suid-root thingy, though not all the drivers have caught up to support, basically it's no longer the default to run Xorg as a user other than your own |
| 21:42.39 | gnarface | as long as you know that though, it shouldn't be difficult to work around |
| 21:43.00 | gnarface | but one consequence is that your log might be in ~/.local/share/xorg/ instead of /var/log |
| 21:43.44 | gnarface | and some drivers still need it |
| 21:49.49 | gnarface | (which means you have to put it back yourself) |
| 21:50.07 | gnarface | (you might have to manually add yourself to the "video" group too, like in the old days) |
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| 21:58.27 | golinux | phillipsjk: Do not use "testing" in your sources list or you will get bullseye pkgs from Debian and break your system. Use beowulf. |
| 22:03.17 | phillipsjk | Figured I had to use the explicit code-name anyway. Otherwise, my system would break when the "testing" target changes. |
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| 22:10.47 | golinux | It is already out of sync with Debian |
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| 23:18.03 | g4570n | Hi, is there a problem with the kernel version of the installer and the live version? |
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| 23:26.12 | g4570n | Error: the installer can only be used if the core versions of the live system 4.9.0-11-amd64, and the installer 4.9.0-9-amd64 are the same |
| 23:26.37 | g4570n | core = kernel |
| 23:30.24 | gnarface | g4570n: what are you trying to do? did you "apt-get upgrade" a booted live image, then try to run it's built-in installer? |
| 23:31.30 | gnarface | its not it's |
| 23:32.15 | g4570n | gnarface: create de ISO |
| 23:33.03 | gnarface | can you clarify that please? |
| 23:33.08 | g4570n | Do you want a screenshot of the error? |
| 23:33.13 | gnarface | no, i believe you |
| 23:33.24 | gnarface | i'm just trying to form a hypothesis about what went wrong |
| 23:34.29 | gnarface | package version checks are usually very simple string or numeric comparisons. it's unlikely that it is smart enough to know those are almost the same exact kernel |
| 23:34.31 | g4570n | This problem already happened once this year in May |
| 23:35.02 | g4570n | His answer was: |
| 23:35.09 | g4570n | "the installer needs to be rebuilt. We know about it and are working on it." |
| 23:35.25 | gnarface | hmm. i believe that too. |
| 23:35.53 | gnarface | that doesn't need to stop you though, there are other installation methods available. |
| 23:36.16 | gnarface | it might be worth it to check to see if you have the latest live iso first though |
| 23:36.31 | gnarface | that is, if that is your preferred installation method |
| 23:36.35 | gnarface | i can help you with any of the others |
| 23:37.33 | g4570n | My friend is putting together an ISO using livebuild and he gets that error, he told me that until August 29 it worked fine, without problems |
| 23:38.07 | gnarface | is he using that refracta thing? |
| 23:38.35 | gnarface | oh, you said livebuild |
| 23:38.41 | gnarface | that's not the same as refracta, is it? |
| 23:38.54 | g4570n | gnarface: no, he uses livebuild and D-I |
| 23:39.30 | gnarface | devuan uses refracta-snapshot i think |
| 23:39.35 | gnarface | refractasnapshot |
| 23:39.58 | g4570n | it seems that kernel versions are not synchronized |
| 23:40.38 | gnarface | yes, is it possible to rebuild the installer component yourself? |
| 23:40.45 | g4570n | He prefers not to use refracta for now, that's why he uses the d-i method |
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| 23:47.46 | g4570n | gnarface: https://0x0.st/ztbE.jpg, https://0x0.st/ztb6.jpg and https://0x0.st/ztbI.jpg |
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| 23:57.46 | g4570n | gnarface: I think it's the same problem as in May, we have to rebuild the installer. You can do that? |
| 23:58.09 | gnarface | g4570n: i assume it can be done |
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