| 00:02.51 | golinux | Enjoy your new Devuan! |
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| 05:19.12 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Jessie 1.0 old-stable, ASCII 2.1 stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ |
| 05:19.12 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 06:39.50 | _Ev | Is it stable/safe to upgrade the kernel to 5.1 (from 4.9)? New laptop; unsupported Wifi 6 AX200 carrd :/ |
| 06:44.49 | tuxd3v | _Ev, WIFI 6 AX200 is what? |
| 06:45.02 | tuxd3v | 6 WIFI cards? |
| 06:45.32 | _Ev | Yea, it's the built in Wifi card on the new Thinkpad P1's. |
| 06:45.45 | _Ev | Required kernel 5.1 (from what I've read). |
| 06:46.12 | tuxd3v | does you know what is the driver for it? |
| 06:46.36 | _Ev | Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz5.1+iwlwifi-cc-46.3cfab8da.0.tgz |
| 06:47.13 | _Ev | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005511/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html |
| 06:47.31 | tuxd3v | IWLWIFI driver? |
| 06:50.17 | _Ev | I am unsure. Is that the generic compatible driver? I can't use Ethernet nor Wifi on that computer yet. It's a mini Ethernet, I need to purchase. |
| 06:52.32 | tuxd3v | its present since 5.1+ |
| 06:53.57 | _Ev | I'll try and figure out how to upgrade the kernel and then use that package from the link above |
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| 06:54.15 | tuxd3v | seems that iwlwifi needs to be built with support for it in place.. |
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| 06:55.40 | tuxd3v | If I would be you, I would go for a 5.4.x series |
| 06:56.07 | tuxd3v | intead of 5.1 |
| 06:56.32 | _Ev | When I learn how, will this affect devuan itself? Are things going to break? |
| 06:56.36 | tuxd3v | 5.4 will be a LTS version in future .. |
| 06:56.56 | tuxd3v | that is a kernel |
| 06:56.59 | tuxd3v | :) |
| 06:57.06 | tuxd3v | and drivers |
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| 06:57.16 | tuxd3v | the userspace is another thing.. |
| 06:57.30 | tuxd3v | but in some things it could create noise.. |
| 06:57.32 | _Ev | In other words... things will 100% break? |
| 06:57.36 | tuxd3v | I don't think so |
| 06:57.37 | tuxd3v | ... |
| 06:57.42 | tuxd3v | go for it! :) |
| 06:58.02 | tuxd3v | download a 5.4.x series kernel |
| 06:58.34 | _Ev | 5.4.16 - here we go! |
| 06:58.38 | tuxd3v | 5.4.16 |
| 06:58.42 | tuxd3v | yep |
| 06:59.51 | tuxd3v | it will giveyou some trouble to get a good .config file for it tough |
| 07:00.15 | tuxd3v | start incrementing it |
| 07:00.37 | tuxd3v | adding things |
| 07:00.55 | tuxd3v | check your ethernet adapter driver also |
| 07:01.21 | tuxd3v | your graphics card also |
| 07:01.50 | tuxd3v | because you need a kernel driver to interface with userspace Mesa driver.. |
| 07:02.29 | tuxd3v | what is your graphics card? |
| 07:03.22 | tuxd3v | for what it seems you need: 'iwlwifi-cc-46.3cfab8da.0.tgz' |
| 07:03.29 | tuxd3v | file from intel site :) |
| 07:04.44 | tuxd3v | check the file inside it : 'README.iwlwifi-cc.ucode' |
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| 07:05.11 | mrpfilser | libpcap0.8-dev : Depends: libpcap0.8 (= 1.8.1-6) but 1.9.1-2 is to be installed |
| 07:05.38 | mrpfilser | can't package or repo maintainers get that warning when they update a package in a repository? |
| 07:06.01 | mrpfilser | so we don't need this user feedback loop "hey... this package doesn't have a corresponding -dev" |
| 07:07.34 | mrpfilser | it's a näive question i know but hopefully not a stupid one! |
| 07:12.19 | tuxd3v | _Ev, you maybe have another intermediate option |
| 07:12.21 | _Ev | Ahh I see |
| 07:12.28 | tuxd3v | maybe migrating to beowulf |
| 07:12.43 | tuxd3v | and maybe its there a 5.4 kernel? |
| 07:12.52 | tuxd3v | I don't know if there are |
| 07:12.54 | _Ev | Alright, I guess I'll go back to SystemD Buster for a few months or so |
| 07:12.56 | tuxd3v | on amd64 |
| 07:13.17 | mrpfilser | noooo |
| 07:13.39 | mrpfilser | dedicate your life to charity. become a monk. anything |
| 07:14.20 | tuxd3v | then you can 'zcat /proc/config.gz' and get your .config file :) |
| 07:15.07 | tuxd3v | at that time you will be almost there :) |
| 07:15.18 | _Ev | This laptop will remain on Devuan, but this is an old XPS 15. I have enough stuff to manage, I don't want to deal with a kernel config file, and learning all about that and modprobes. |
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| 07:16.45 | _Ev | Good joke though mrpfilser haha |
| 07:16.49 | _Ev | I'll look into it tuxd3v |
| 07:16.51 | tuxd3v | maybe someone can suggest you a nice way to do it.. |
| 07:18.10 | mrpfilser | getting a kernel config with zcat is trivial, changing it and getting a usable kernel isn't as trivial |
| 07:18.53 | mrpfilser | "and then you look and find, ten years have got behind you" |
| 07:18.55 | tuxd3v | indeed, I deleted my 5.5.x .config file, and know... I am in the 10th build or so.. |
| 07:19.02 | tuxd3v | each time closer :) |
| 07:19.35 | tuxd3v | one more build, and I believe I am right there :) |
| 07:20.19 | _Ev | ^ Makes Gentoo sounds good right about now |
| 07:20.58 | tuxd3v | well I have some sort of a Jedi helper here, and he builds it for me |
| 07:21.09 | tuxd3v | but I have to configure them by hand first.. |
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| 07:28.47 | _Ev | I'll give this a shot: http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=564 |
| 07:30.23 | _Ev | "Setup 'sudo' so that you can do Administrator level work without being 'root'" Is it okay if I am root? I can't install sudo. |
| 07:30.37 | _Ev | (yet) |
| 07:36.52 | mrpfilser | if you don't hate the idea of 'personal firewalls', this is cool https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch |
| 07:37.08 | tuxd3v | if beowulf already has a 5.4 kernel, you could get that .config file.. |
| 07:37.26 | tuxd3v | but I don't know if beowulf for amd64 has a 5.4 kernel.. |
| 07:37.55 | tuxd3v | anyway beowulf will be next devuan :) |
| 07:38.05 | tuxd3v | stable |
| 07:38.25 | tuxd3v | zas.. my kernel is building.. |
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| 07:52.03 | mrpfilser | i thank tuxd3v for the help with /boot again |
| 07:52.24 | tuxd3v | _Ev, you have a' 4.19+105+deb10u1~bpo9+1' in ascii-backports |
| 07:52.38 | tuxd3v | mrpfilser, did you succeded on that? |
| 07:52.47 | mrpfilser | i did not |
| 07:53.04 | mrpfilser | but now i have the right direction to go with device trees i think |
| 07:53.04 | tuxd3v | what is the braker now? |
| 07:53.11 | mrpfilser | other projects :) |
| 07:53.21 | tuxd3v | :) |
| 07:53.52 | mrpfilser | i wake up in the morning and there are a thousand things to do :/ |
| 07:53.53 | tuxd3v | _Ev, but still far away from a 5.4.x |
| 07:54.11 | _Ev | I'm just beginning now. So much going on with work this week. |
| 07:54.38 | _Ev | ... will actually being in 20min |
| 07:55.59 | tuxd3v | yeah, my kernel is finishing compilation process :9 |
| 07:57.02 | tuxd3v | lets hope for the better.. |
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| 08:10.31 | _Ev | Haha, I am so busy I can't even get to upgrading the kernel. How long would this process typically take? If I may impose of course. |
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| 08:24.43 | gour | morning |
| 08:27.09 | gour | i can't stand systemd any longer - thought that i'll save some admin work by moving from sid to manjaro (stable), but systemd update ruined my system - now i need to pass 'iommu=soft' to boot (old gigabyte mobo), shutdown does end cleanly, systemd-udevd hos my cpu 100%... |
| 08:29.44 | gour | so, i'm about to abandon systemd once and for all...besides devuan, i consider voidlinux...devuan advantage is that i have to use some 3rd party software for my smartcard reader (eID) which is shiiped only as *.deb. moreover, proprietary apps like viber/zoom (i attend some video chats/conferences monthly) are packaged as *.deb |
| 08:30.15 | gour | am i right that all the pkgs available in debian are available for devuan as well? |
| 08:30.39 | gnarface | gour: yes with some exceptions |
| 08:30.54 | gour | gnarface: ok, but majority is there, right? |
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| 08:31.10 | gnarface | yes |
| 08:32.22 | gnarface | http://deb.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 08:32.32 | gnarface | everything except these |
| 08:33.12 | gour | on debian i was using sid (to have newer versions of some pkgs), but i assume that in devuan 'sid' is not as stable? |
| 08:33.22 | gour | gnarface: the list passed well here ;) |
| 08:33.49 | gnarface | eh, i haven't really noticed a difference between sid and ceres |
| 08:34.09 | gnarface | devuan unstable is ceres |
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| 08:34.55 | gour | so, ceres is also ok, good |
| 08:36.07 | gour | maybe i should just do a test install on my spare machine (netbook) and see how it goes with ceres |
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| 08:36.24 | gnarface | i'd say it's worth a try |
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| 08:39.00 | gnarface | if sid works on it, ceres will as well |
| 08:39.41 | gour | ok. what about sysvinit vs openrc? i'm really inexperiences in regard? using linux since '99 when i install my first debian, then suse for some years, gentoo, arch, a little of fedora...so, for the most part sysvinit was always there and one didn't bother to think much about openrc? |
| 08:39.54 | gnarface | some stuff dealing with permissions and startup will be notably different but if you're familiar with how debian worked before systemd then it will seem like all the same familiar stuff |
| 08:41.01 | gnarface | i don't use openrc myself, but a few people do |
| 08:41.06 | gnarface | you can use it if you want |
| 08:41.21 | gnarface | you might not want to complicate things though |
| 08:43.46 | gour | ok, so sysvinit is a natural one for devuan, similar to runit in void, right? |
| 08:43.54 | _Ev | natural == default |
| 08:43.55 | _Ev | yea |
| 08:44.35 | gour | good |
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| 08:45.28 | gour | dl-ing devuan image and will try with it first (before voidlinux). if everything goes will, i won't try to install the other one :-) |
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| 08:46.12 | _Ev | Is void kernel 5.1+. I'm too busy to learn how to rebuild the kernel. Seriously about to use Buster for a few months. |
| 08:48.13 | gour | _Ev: afaict, void kernel is 5.4 |
| 08:49.45 | gour | i always like debian a lot, but, somehow, never learnt packaging although i did gentoo/arch/rpm...maybe i should learn the art finally |
| 08:55.25 | _Ev | Ahh, I'll figure all of this out when I get some type of ethernet adapter. So much work I gotta get back to. |
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| 11:44.44 | gour | at the moment, using gnome, i'm using evolution to handle my contacts/calendars and sync them with android phone (via baikal server), so wonder how to handle it with devuan/xfce? (voidlinux does provide gnome packages) |
| 11:45.20 | mrpfilser | devuan does not prescribe your desktop environment for you |
| 11:46.07 | gour | mrpfilser: hmm, but i do not see gnome as option? |
| 11:46.24 | mrpfilser | i don't know the gnome desktop environment |
| 11:46.36 | mrpfilser | is it called mate? |
| 11:47.15 | gour | nope, gnome is GNOME(3) |
| 11:47.37 | mrpfilser | would you like i test install evolution on devuan to see if ti work? |
| 11:48.02 | gour | of course |
| 11:48.06 | mrpfilser | evolution - groupware suite with mail client and organizer |
| 11:48.08 | mrpfilser | okkay |
| 11:48.30 | mrpfilser | it does not install here |
| 11:48.39 | mrpfilser | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:50.08 | gour | dunno, but maybe it is not so systemd-plagued, although i'd prefer gnome-free solution. even xfce's Orage is archived now with no further development |
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| 11:50.37 | gour | anyone knows if thunderbird can handle/sync contacts/calendars? |
| 11:55.51 | Oldmoss | gour: yes, thunderbird can do that |
| 11:56.42 | Oldmoss | that includes tasks |
| 12:02.52 | gnu_srs | gour: On Devuan/Beowulf: apt-get install --dry-run evolution, see http://paste.debian.net/1128637/ |
| 12:02.55 | gour | Oldmoss: does it require some add-ons? |
| 12:03.14 | gour | gnu_srs: thanks |
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| 12:06.20 | Oldmoss | gour: Yes, for calendars "lightning" I think it is called. more or less included, choice I think |
| 12:06.38 | Oldmoss | TBsync for contacts |
| 12:06.51 | Oldmoss | both works fine for me |
| 12:06.57 | gour | good, will try it soon |
| 12:08.02 | gnu_srs | gour: This is on Beowulf running slim+xfce4 |
| 12:12.50 | gour | great |
| 12:16.07 | gour | grub install failed (on my netbook install), but that is not unusual...let me fix it via rescue |
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| 13:21.22 | _Ev | Haha, I am literally just getting to that upgrade |
| 13:21.31 | _Ev | 20 minutes meants 6 hours, at least :) |
| 13:23.35 | mrpfilser | who likes dilbert |
| 13:26.48 | _Ev | Where do I download the packages from?: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii/libelf-dev_0.168-1.html |
| 13:29.00 | _Ev | git.devuan.org gotit |
| 13:29.44 | _Ev | noe |
| 13:29.46 | _Ev | nope* |
| 13:35.50 | fsmithred | _Ev, packages we fork are at pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 13:36.02 | fsmithred | can't you dowload with apt? |
| 13:39.57 | _Ev | Ethernet requires adapter (hard to find; soon), Wi-Fi requires kernel 5.1+, and my Alfa external wifi requires make to install. So, I'm stuck downloading packages to attempt a kernel upgrade. If all else fails, I can use Debian Buster for a few months. |
| 13:46.19 | fsmithred | maybe a live iso with newer kernel would help? |
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| 13:49.39 | _Ev | fsmithred: Does this use a higher kernel version number?: devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_minimal-live.iso |
| 13:49.42 | fsmithred | _Ev, this one has 5.3 kernel and wireless firmware installed: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx_5.3bpo-20200105_0440.iso |
| 13:50.01 | fsmithred | I also made an unofficial devuan 2.1 with ascii-backports kernel |
| 13:50.05 | fsmithred | but that's only 4.19 |
| 13:50.50 | fsmithred | you can either install the refracta with openbox (refracta is a devuan re-spin) or do a debootstrap install of devuan |
| 13:52.57 | fsmithred | if you need 5.1 or newer, you should probably use beowulf instead of ascii. beowulf-backports has 5.3 |
| 13:53.15 | _Ev | Gotcha. Alright, thank you for the help. If I manage to upgrade the kernel is it going to break many things? |
| 13:53.34 | fsmithred | depends on which suite you're in and which kernel you try |
| 13:53.46 | fsmithred | I don't know if 5.1 works smoothly in ascii |
| 13:53.54 | _Ev | I was going to go with 5.4.16 |
| 13:54.03 | fsmithred | from where? |
| 13:54.24 | _Ev | Beowulf is the latest/upcoming release? From kernel.org |
| 13:54.29 | fsmithred | upcoming |
| 13:54.46 | fsmithred | pretty much ready except for installer isos |
| 13:55.02 | _Ev | Hmm. That is deff what I am looking for. |
| 13:55.26 | fsmithred | try my refracta-oblx iso. At least you can test to see if some stuff works |
| 13:55.40 | fsmithred | it's beowulf with beowulf-backports kernel |
| 13:55.52 | fsmithred | what wireless hardware do you have? |
| 13:56.18 | _Ev | Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 |
| 13:56.46 | _Ev | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005511/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html |
| 13:59.04 | fsmithred | might possibly work out of the box with the oblx iso. firmware-iwlwifi is installed, but I'm not certain if it's new enough |
| 14:04.11 | _Ev | I'll just keep trying to get this driver for external wifi to work. ""ALFA AWUS036H adapter is based on the Realtek RTL8187 chipset"" |
| 14:04.37 | fsmithred | that should work out of the box, shouldn't it? |
| 14:05.57 | _Ev | Huh, strange. |
| 14:06.08 | _Ev | It doesn't light up but lsusb reads it |
| 14:07.16 | _Ev | Now I just need to download wicd from packages I suppose |
| 14:07.51 | fsmithred | if you started with minimal-live you could use setnet.sh |
| 14:08.29 | _Ev | I installed from the DVD iso |
| 14:08.31 | mrpfilser | were you the one who stole my alfa adapter |
| 14:08.34 | fsmithred | ok |
| 14:09.26 | fsmithred | if you are downloading packages with web browser (or any way other than using apt) you will find the un-forked packages at debian |
| 14:09.36 | fsmithred | but don't use debian repos in sources.list |
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| 14:21.35 | _Ev | dpkg is giving me an error: Media change: please inset the disc labeled 'Devuan GNU/Linux" ..... |
| 14:21.48 | _Ev | Is this due to my weird hardware? or is this a thing? |
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| 14:22.13 | _Ev | Ahh, sorry: https://askubuntu.com/questions/386265/media-change-please-insert-the-disc-labeled-when-trying-to-install-ruby-on-ra |
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| 14:25.04 | _Ev | Woah, packages upon packages. I'll just wait for some ethernet conversation cable. Thank you so so much for the guidance fsmithred. I appreciate it/you ;) ! |
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| 14:54.17 | _Ev | Will a thunderbolt to 'ethernet' adapter be compatible? Is there any issues here? Or just plug-n-play.. |
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| 15:07.39 | fsmithred | _Ev, try the thunderbolt and let us know if it works. |
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| 18:15.59 | EHeM | The Debian security team has announced limited future security support for binutils and chromium. |
| 18:16.47 | EHeM | That almost sounds like they're ending security support for stretch given how often (very) those packages get installed. |
| 18:17.02 | EHeM | Beowulf seems kind of urgent... |
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| 18:28.42 | fsmithred | EHeM, where is this announcement? Stretch gets LTS until June 2022. |
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| 18:54.56 | _Ev | fsmithred: I just tried your refactor* live iso. I couldn't get external wifi card nor internal working. Not complaining, just informing. |
| 18:55.18 | _Ev | When is beowulf due to release-ish? |
| 18:58.21 | fsmithred | soon |
| 18:58.37 | fsmithred | we're tying up a few loose ends and working on installer isos |
| 18:59.18 | fsmithred | did lspci recognize your wireless card? |
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| 19:02.53 | _Ev | fsmithred: I see everything except the wireless card. Unless it's "Network Controller: Intel Corporation Device 2723" |
| 19:03.40 | fsmithred | oh, maybe it doesn't show up there because it's usb? |
| 19:04.23 | _Ev | I meant the built in card. Checking for USB now |
| 19:04.46 | _Ev | Nope, neither cards. |
| 19:04.59 | fsmithred | there should be one in lspci for wired and one for wireless |
| 19:05.19 | fsmithred | network controller is probably wireless, and other one probably says ethernet |
| 19:05.41 | fsmithred | ip a |
| 19:05.47 | fsmithred | will show your interfaces |
| 19:05.48 | _Ev | There is a "Ethernet controller" and also a "network controller" |
| 19:09.37 | fsmithred | and as root: |
| 19:09.51 | fsmithred | lsmod | grep iwlwifi |
| 19:10.15 | fsmithred | are you running the live iso now? |
| 19:14.20 | _Ev | Yea. iwlwifi was found |
| 19:14.32 | _Ev | and rtl8187 |
| 19:14.56 | _Ev | My external card uses rtl8187 and iwlwifi may cover my internal card. I'm too noob to make it work though. |
| 19:17.03 | fsmithred | what does |
| 19:17.15 | fsmithred | 'ip a' show for interface names? |
| 19:17.28 | fsmithred | wlan0? wlan1? |
| 19:18.29 | fsmithred | make sure wicd prefs shows the right one for default wireless interface |
| 19:18.40 | fsmithred | and you might need to unload and reload the module |
| 19:18.53 | fsmithred | modprobe -r iwlwifi |
| 19:19.00 | fsmithred | modprobe -v iwlwifi |
| 19:19.43 | fsmithred | you shouldn't really need to do that |
| 19:19.50 | fsmithred | brb |
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| 19:20.29 | _Ev | lo qlen eth0 |
| 19:20.36 | _Ev | and group |
| 19:20.59 | fsmithred | 2. ??? |
| 19:21.03 | fsmithred | no wlan0? |
| 19:21.10 | fsmithred | 3 |
| 19:21.17 | fsmithred | 2 is eth0 |
| 19:21.55 | _Ev | I'm only trying my internal card BTW. I'll check external |
| 19:22.31 | _Ev | Okay got one |
| 19:22.43 | _Ev | crazy name |
| 19:22.50 | _Ev | wlx.......foo |
| 19:22.58 | fsmithred | aha! |
| 19:23.10 | _Ev | "wlx00c0ca846222" |
| 19:23.19 | fsmithred | open wicd, click on the little triangle in the upper right |
| 19:23.36 | _Ev | Woohoo |
| 19:23.39 | _Ev | It works |
| 19:23.41 | fsmithred | go into preferences and paste that "predictable" number into the box |
| 19:23.48 | fsmithred | cool |
| 19:25.40 | gour | does devuan support uefi install? |
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| 19:25.45 | fsmithred | yes |
| 19:26.02 | fsmithred | with the exception of the minimal-live isos |
| 19:26.03 | gour | ok, ta |
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| 19:28.51 | EHeM | fsmithred: Try installing/updating the debian-security-support package with either of those installed. |
| 19:30.13 | gour | can devuan boot from the root in lvm without separate /boot partition? |
| 19:42.44 | fsmithred | gour, that works in ascii, but I haven't been able to get it to work in beowulf |
| 19:43.16 | fsmithred | although maybe I just needed to do what I had to do to get it to work with a separate /boot |
| 19:43.45 | fsmithred | grub can't handle new luks format, so root partition must be formatted with -type luks1 |
| 19:43.52 | gour | fsmithred: hmm, i'm doing regular install, but didn't work either. now trying with bios/gpt scheme and separate /boot |
| 19:44.10 | fsmithred | installer iso or live iso? |
| 19:44.17 | gour | is not doing encryption |
| 19:44.26 | fsmithred | oh, ok |
| 19:44.35 | fsmithred | should be easy, then |
| 19:45.05 | gour | ahh, now i see that, by mistake i dl-ed devuan_ascii_2.1_i386_dvd-1.iso |
| 19:50.04 | fsmithred | EHeM, thanks, I see it now. That seems kinda weird. |
| 19:53.34 | Jjp137 | they dropped security support for chromium in stretch at least a few months ago already, according to this DSA: https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4575 |
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| 19:55.25 | Jjp137 | of course there's firefox-esr still if one needs a web browser that generally supports everything, so eh... |
| 20:01.31 | fsmithred | it's also possible to upgrade to beowulf |
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| 20:03.48 | Jjp137 | and that :) |
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| 21:26.07 | EHeM | A number of sites do not work with Firefox (notably the tool "Gerrit"). |
| 21:30.44 | EHeM | I've also similarly read reports of a number of sites not working with Chrome. |
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| 21:31.17 | EHeM | Yet the bottom line is there isn't exactly a viable stable at this point... |
| 21:33.29 | fsmithred | no stable installer isos yet |
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| 23:04.40 | EHeM | Given the state of things, I'd almost go with unreliable installer ISOs. |
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| 23:11.48 | EHeM | wonders how far he can let this disk go before declaring it failed. |
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