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| 03:00.28 | sauron- | great, i can see tiktok videos from mpv/youtube-dl |
| 03:10.46 | Unit193 | My condolences. |
| 03:16.09 | ullet | debianfork would be a better place for it |
| 03:16.24 | ullet | #debianfork, that is |
| 03:17.14 | golinux | ullet: Thank you. :) |
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| 05:00.39 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Jessie 1.0 old-stable, ASCII 2.1 stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #debianfork |
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| 06:35.02 | Guest59969 | can someone please help, I can't seem to launch gmusicbrowser in windowmaker on Devuan ASCII |
| 06:35.15 | Guest59969 | it just sits there at the bottom of the screen forever |
| 06:35.21 | Guest59969 | but I can't click on it |
| 06:38.03 | Guest59969 | I think there may be a bug or something |
| 06:38.05 | Guest59969 | also |
| 06:38.20 | Guest59969 | open Devuan ASCII, windowmaker doesn't show any XDG applications |
| 06:38.37 | Guest59969 | just hardcoded binaries |
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| 07:06.36 | ullet | hi Guest59969. no experience with it here |
| 07:06.57 | Guest59969 | ok |
| 07:07.01 | ullet | if you have a display manager you can install an alternative WM like openbox and see if it breaks there also |
| 07:07.11 | ullet | makes it easy to try alternates out |
| 07:07.34 | Guest59969 | i doesn't break in the default xfwm |
| 07:08.06 | ullet | havent used windowmaker in ages. the irc channel is pretty dead too |
| 07:11.37 | Guest59969 | what do you use? afterstep? |
| 07:13.01 | ullet | not really using the dockapps anymore so |
| 07:13.05 | ullet | trying out different stuff |
| 07:13.21 | ullet | i like laying out my startup window positions with fluxbox |
| 07:13.34 | ullet | but xfce remembers positions now, which is actually one thing i really like |
| 07:13.49 | ullet | but there's other bits of xfce that aren't in such happy shape |
| 07:14.16 | ullet | i like the windowmaker dockapps ofc, but i never got around to finishing mine, so i soured on em |
| 07:18.37 | Guest59969 | ullet, how do I make a program that follows windowmaker themes |
| 07:18.42 | Guest59969 | it's not gtk2 |
| 07:18.44 | Guest59969 | or qt5 |
| 07:18.56 | Guest59969 | is gnustep a toolkit or a wm? |
| 07:19.50 | ullet | well it derives from nextstep i think |
| 07:20.02 | ullet | which was a full fledged os |
| 07:20.15 | ullet | and i don't know which subset of components gnustep provides |
| 07:20.33 | ullet | but i think one should think of it as both a gui toolkit and a desktop environment? |
| 07:20.42 | ullet | and a windowmanager |
| 07:21.22 | ullet | the heritage of it precedes GTK |
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| 07:47.53 | Guest59969 | it's very efficient |
| 07:47.56 | Guest59969 | and fast |
| 07:48.39 | Guest59969 | and unlike DWM or MWM it actually looks comfortable for being a minimal wm |
| 07:49.00 | Guest59969 | I don't think i'd call it a DE |
| 07:49.16 | Guest59969 | it doesn't have it's own programs except for docklets |
| 07:49.47 | Guest59969 | which, seem to me more like a new window management paradigm than WM-specific programs |
| 07:50.00 | Guest59969 | supposedly it's interoperable with gnustep and afterstep |
| 07:50.08 | Guest59969 | but wow |
| 07:50.13 | Guest59969 | 4megs of ram usage |
| 07:50.19 | Guest59969 | I'm very happy right now |
| 07:50.21 | Guest59969 | super snappy |
| 07:50.41 | Guest59969 | I can use this and not worry about how much ram things are taking |
| 07:50.50 | Guest59969 | btw i figure it out |
| 07:51.14 | Guest59969 | I needed to 'attract the icons with the clip' and then right-click->launch gmusicbrowser |
| 07:52.17 | Guest59969 | nothing was broken in devuan |
| 07:55.39 | iv4nshm4k0v | Guest59969: The jwm Debian package used to be rather minimalist until Stretch. Hope the maintainer could be persuaded to make a separate âtinyâ package for it (http://bugs.debian.org/960145.) |
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| 08:25.07 | Guest59969 | windowmaker is fantastic |
| 08:25.22 | Guest59969 | I feel like back when I discovered Linux for the first time |
| 08:26.11 | Guest59969 | I'm might to try to figure out out to patch and compile a devuan kernel for MuQSS again tomorrow |
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| 10:23.55 | ullet | Guest59969: let me know when you start please |
| 10:24.07 | ullet | maybe i can follow your procedure for building a kernel for VIM3 |
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| 10:27.52 | specing | This is strange... qemu-img create -f qcow2 devuan.qcow 6G ... installer thinks it has 6.4GB available |
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| 10:40.54 | ullet | GB vs GiB issue? |
| 10:41.29 | specing | it does explain it |
| 10:41.43 | specing | mkfs.btrfs reports 6GB |
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| 10:45.11 | ullet | the first manufacturer to switch to decimal based 'megabytes' was Connor, for their tape drives |
| 10:45.17 | ullet | it was a deceptive, outrageous ploy |
| 10:46.16 | ullet | but as with other corruptions, the other manufacturers had a choice to resist it, or adopt it. they ended-up adopting it |
| 10:50.08 | specing | It's not deceptive at all |
| 10:50.17 | specing | G is a SI prefix standing for 1e9 |
| 10:50.39 | specing | It is deceptive to use GB to mean 1024**3 |
| 10:52.44 | koollman | manufacturers also don't use it as the SI unit though, it is a mix of both |
| 10:53.33 | koollman | (since hard drives do not have 500-bytes or 4000-bytes sectors, for example) |
| 10:54.12 | specing | Disk /dev/sda: 223.6 GiB, 240057409536 bytes, 468862128 sectors |
| 10:54.15 | specing | Disk model: CT240BX200SSD1 |
| 10:54.17 | specing | seems quite correct |
| 10:55.28 | koollman | specing: well, it is not 240*1e9. It is also not the same size as another disk that could also be sold as '240GB' |
| 10:55.46 | ullet | Connor broke standard industry units, around 1995. |
| 10:56.16 | ullet | 96 maybe |
| 10:56.36 | specing | koollman: it's close enough |
| 10:57.06 | koollman | specing: yeah, until you need to find a replacement for a raid or something else that will not tolerate much variation :) |
| 10:57.19 | specing | koollman: 0.02% away from truth |
| 10:57.42 | specing | btrfs has great tolerance |
| 10:57.53 | koollman | which is pretty big, in an industry that can make such exact and precise things |
| 10:58.23 | specing | But the error is on my side, which is good |
| 11:03.02 | iv4nshm4k0v | There actually /is/ a standard for HDD sizes. And from my limited perspective it seems to be followed as well. |
| 11:03.30 | iv4nshm4k0v | Then, however, there's the # hdparm -N setting, which can reserve arbitrary portion of the usable disk space off its tail. It's not unheard of of BIOS making use of it. |
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| 11:30.04 | linuxer_ | Hey people |
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| 11:30.30 | linuxer_ | just joined jaromil |
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| 11:40.40 | iv4nshm4k0v | (Curiously, I can't seem to find any reference on said standardization. Perhaps I got mistaken on that somehow. My disks still seem to have identical byte capacity for each claimed one.) |
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| 13:08.23 | specing | Does this https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/Intro?action=show&redirect=IntroDebianPackaging |
| 13:08.37 | specing | also apply for Devuan packaging or is there another intro for that? |
| 13:11.41 | Guest59969 | can is use export in .xinitrc? |
| 13:12.10 | Guest59969 | how how would I set a environment varible before the window manager starts? |
| 13:14.16 | gnarface | specing: i don't know if that is up-to-date but the packaging process didn't change, correct. |
| 13:15.13 | gnarface | Guest59969: depends on whether you want it set for all users or not |
| 13:16.24 | Guest59969 | no just me |
| 13:17.01 | gnarface | if you're using a graphical login you might need to tell it to set the variable as you login then |
| 13:17.13 | gnarface | otherwise just use your ~/.bash_profile |
| 13:17.39 | gnarface | those will both set it at login not before, but i think that's what you actually want |
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| 13:18.35 | gnarface | (the bash manpage has useful details) |
| 13:30.49 | iv4nshm4k0v | Also pam_env(7). |
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| 13:40.59 | openbsdtai123 | my solution to fix the bug of devuan ascii mkfs.ext2/ext3/... hanging and freezing is as follows (on ascii devuan). |
| 13:43.06 | openbsdtai123 | I have created 4 partitions, sda1 slackware amd64, sda2 openbsd, sda3 the ascii amd64 with virtualbox. I get lilo to boot the machine. slackware is very stable and I can format my disks. this way I can use multiboot and make use of devuan. If devuan fails, there is slackware that can format, and I put back the system with cp -a /devuan /media/mount_sda3 |
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| 14:06.55 | fsmithred | specing, https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/wip/new-packaging-guide/maintainers |
| 14:33.08 | openbsdtai123 | nice, to see, ah instalÃling 2.2. debianpotato on virtualbox. I will try to get few files to put back on devuan/i386/amd64 using fltk. |
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| 14:35.49 | iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: Why potato? |
| 14:36.15 | openbsdtai123 | Because I started there, with KDE on Debian at school |
| 14:36.36 | iv4nshm4k0v | has started Debian with Sarge... or perhaps rather Etch. |
| 14:36.48 | openbsdtai123 | pff so late in time? |
| 14:37.13 | iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: I've started with KSI and Red Hat 5.2, with Fvwm2, WindowMaker, etc. |
| 14:37.33 | openbsdtai123 | I never got redhat 5 fully working at the time. |
| 14:39.24 | iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: I never got KDE to do anything of value for me. (Or GNOME FTM.) |
| 14:40.19 | iv4nshm4k0v | More to the point, I've since moved on. No idea what use I may find for RH5.2 now. (I'd rather use something supported... CP/M perhaps?) |
| 14:41.21 | openbsdtai123 | CP/M ? I am interested. what can you use or emulate, or do with cpm? |
| 14:43.29 | specing | fsmithred: I was planning on having a (public) repo for per-commit builds of an already existing package, for more or less private use |
| 14:43.32 | iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: Edit text files? Say, you may author prose, or code. I don't actually use it; but I've followed the folks at news:comp.os.cpm, and they do find uses. |
| 14:44.04 | specing | fsmithred: looks like the package in question is going to be auto-purged from debian in 6 days, R.I.P. |
| 14:44.05 | fsmithred | then you'll be building on your own machine. |
| 14:44.15 | specing | yes |
| 14:44.15 | fsmithred | which? |
| 14:44.23 | specing | fsmithred: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freeorion |
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| 14:48.57 | fsmithred | it's not clear when python2 will be dropped. It's still in ceres. |
| 14:49.19 | fsmithred | the linked message about it is almost 2 years old |
| 14:53.29 | specing | python 2 is immortal! |
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| 16:13.26 | openbsdtai123 | would it be possible to cleanup the "mount" output in next gen of devuan? A mount (clean) output like slacware would be cool |
| 16:20.36 | fsmithred | For more robust and customizable output use findmnt(8) |
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| 16:24.32 | openbsdtai123 | I use mount since unix opensource is there, I'd be happy that unix entity remains. |
| 16:25.27 | fsmithred | I don't think mount is going away any time soon. |
| 16:26.56 | openbsdtai123 | If debian goes direction of Ubuntu, there is no reason that devuan goes that way. |
| 16:28.08 | fsmithred | there are a couple of good reasons we don't change most of the packages in debian |
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| 16:28.21 | fsmithred | 1. Most of them don't need it. (so far, so good) |
| 16:28.46 | fsmithred | 2. We need more devs if we fork more packages. Like 1-2 orders of magnitude more. |
| 16:28.46 | openbsdtai123 | that's sad to see a bit that debian - good debian operating system collapsed since systemd was introduced. |
| 16:28.59 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 16:31.22 | fsmithred | seems like a lot more stuff comes out of the box broken than used to be. |
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| 16:33.38 | james1138 | Hello all. General question about Devuan ASCII and/or Beowulf. Has anyone tried installing it on a touch tablet?? The reason I ask is that with the self-quarantine - walking around the house with a tablet is a lot easier than walking around trying to carry a laptop (especially if one is spending "quality-time" in the bathroom). |
| 16:34.17 | furrywolf | should I ask why self-quarantine has any effect on the difficulty of carrying various devices? |
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| 16:48.58 | fsmithred | quarantine increases the amount of time spent on devices. But I recommend not looking at the screen while you're walking to avoid certain health risks. |
| 16:49.04 | fsmithred | like falling down the stairs |
| 16:52.13 | Akuli | :D |
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| 17:57.50 | ullet | disobeying the house arrest orders is the duty of everyone |
| 18:06.54 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 18:07.04 | fsmithred | nm, OT here |
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| 18:23.18 | ullet | james1138: you can't type properly on a screen. get a droid4 with devuan instead. :) |
| 18:28.44 | james1138 | Thanx |
| 18:38.54 | ullet | images available |
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| 19:50.55 | Guest59969 | How can I install an alternate GCC version in Devuan ASCII? |
| 19:55.54 | debdog | define 'alternate' |
| 19:56.32 | ullet | https://duckduckgo.com/html/?kp=-1&q=apt+debian+install+specific+version+of+a+package |
| 19:57.09 | debdog | even without that, debian/devuan provides several versions |
| 19:57.41 | debdog | managed by the 'alternatives' system |
| 19:57.55 | debdog | /etc/alternatives |
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| 20:00.05 | Guest59969 | debdog, how to I access those multiple versions? |
| 20:00.18 | Guest59969 | I need access to a newer or older compiler |
| 20:00.29 | Guest59969 | because gcc 6 specificly produces bad builds |
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| 20:00.50 | Guest59969 | works fine on gcc9 and 4 |
| 20:01.54 | ullet | Version: 4:9.2.1-3.1 this is version 4 or 9? |
| 20:02.14 | ullet | gcc -v says 8.3.0 |
| 20:03.16 | debdog | since older versions are kept during dist-upgrades, I am not certain, which versions a plain ASCII provides... |
| 20:05.14 | debdog | and it's not easy (for me) to filter and display versions in oldstable on https://packages.debian.org |
| 20:05.16 | Guest59969 | it seems like 6 |
| 20:05.52 | debdog | Guest59969: check wheter apt provides gcc-4* to gcc-9* |
| 20:06.13 | debdog | like "aptitude search gcc- | grep -e "-base"" |
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| 20:10.58 | debdog | in case ASCII only provides 8 you'll either need to install packages from an older or a newer debian release. but they should⢠be designed to easily coexist and be managable by the Alternatives system |
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| 20:33.24 | systemdlete | trouble configuring usbview. It needs the usb devices file -- where is that located these days; the default no longer exists /sys/kernel/debug/usb/devices. Does usbview require some special modules or other configuration? |
| 20:34.25 | systemdlete | oh, I see. Needs usbdevfs |
| 20:38.57 | systemdlete | ? |
| 20:41.52 | systemdlete | no such type file system |
| 20:47.57 | systemdlete | hmmmm. udev. The program usbview looks to be rather old and maybe has not migrated to newer structures in the kernel? |
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| 20:48.27 | gnarface | seems possible |
| 20:49.03 | gnarface | Guest59969: you can always debootstrap testing or unstable into a chroot and use the newer compilers in there |
| 20:55.53 | *** join/#devuan GLAT-agent (uid442745@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuwipfjrukcimyqy) |
| 20:56.10 | GLAT-agent | I'm selling GNU/Linux single user ($99) and volume ($49) licenses |
| 20:56.59 | ullet | me too |
| 20:57.19 | GLAT-agent | How much licenses did you sell |
| 20:57.21 | ullet | except i'm charging $98/$48 |
| 20:57.49 | GLAT-agent | Only Bitcoin is accepted |
| 20:57.51 | ullet | none yet. i just started |
| 20:57.53 | onefang | I'm giving them away for free. I never was any good at marketing. |
| 20:58.23 | ullet | hah drove off the competition |
| 20:59.43 | Guest59969 | gnarface, no i can't because then my resulting builds would use testing or unstable libraires when i want to use the binary for ascii |
| 21:02.22 | gnarface | Guest59969: well you can try backporting a newer gcc to ascii but it might be a futile exercise |
| 21:02.56 | *** join/#devuan glat-user (uid442751@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndgwmdewagliqtrs) |
| 21:02.59 | Guest59969 | gnarface, did you make the red tk theme in beawulf? |
| 21:03.02 | glat-user | Hi. |
| 21:03.20 | gnarface | Guest59969: no i think that was golinux |
| 21:03.21 | glat-user | onefang: any free licenses left? |
| 21:03.42 | Guest59969 | golinux, did you base your theme off adwaita styles? |
| 21:04.28 | onefang | Should be plenty over at https://devuan.org/ |
| 21:04.53 | glat-user | onefang: where can I get my product key and COA? |
| 21:05.47 | onefang | https://files.devuan.org/ B-) |
| 21:06.35 | glat-user | Are they available on every image? |
| 21:06.41 | onefang | For more information, head over to #debianfork. |
| 21:11.06 | golinux | Guest59969: No. Adwaita totally sucks. Clearlooks-Phenix |
| 21:12.07 | *** join/#devuan xcm (~xcm@ipd114.250.tellas.gr) |
| 21:13.15 | Guest59969 | golinux, I'm confused then. Why to text input boxes look so rounded and bezeled? |
| 21:13.30 | Guest59969 | I thought that was only a carryover from adwaita bases |
| 21:20.28 | *** join/#devuan Guest59969 (~tom@206-212-236-243.static.onlinenw.com) |
| 21:28.22 | Guest59969 | FREEDOM |
| 21:28.23 | Guest59969 | and |
| 21:28.27 | Guest59969 | JUSTICE |
| 21:28.30 | Guest59969 | YESH |
| 21:29.12 | Guest59969 | (OLD MINECRAFT PAIN NOISE!) |
| 21:35.31 | golinux | Guest59969: clearlooks-phenix looks like it has always looked since I started skinning it for Devuan Jessie. |
| 21:38.16 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs (~srs@devuan/developer/srs) |
| 21:40.03 | Guest59969 | golinux, have you used bluecurve-targerine? |
| 21:40.28 | golinux | Nope |
| 21:40.56 | Guest59969 | golinux, if I send you a tarball would you check it out? |
| 21:42.37 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 21:43.03 | golinux | probably not as I'm getting out of the theming business. A screenshot would be appreciated though |
| 21:43.22 | golinux | Couldn't find any on the net. |
| 21:43.42 | Guest59969 | golinux, i can send you a screenshot later |
| 21:43.58 | golinux | You probably wouldn't have a 32 bit tarball for jessie anyway. |
| 21:44.10 | Guest59969 | what are you talking about? |
| 21:44.15 | Guest59969 | gtk2 themes aren't binaries |
| 21:44.27 | Guest59969 | but a simple configuration file, and yes it works on 32j |
| 21:44.28 | golinux | <Guest59969> golinux, if I send you a tarball would you check it out? |
| 21:44.48 | Guest59969 | yes |
| 21:45.31 | golinux | I'll take a look a a screenie |
| 21:46.23 | golinux | afk |
| 21:46.26 | *** join/#devuan some_alex (~alex@188.239.60.41) |
| 21:46.31 | some_alex | hi |
| 21:46.52 | some_alex | any maintainers here? |
| 21:47.08 | golinux | Why? |
| 21:47.23 | some_alex | have a question about TLS and apt searvers |
| 21:47.56 | golinux | Just ask and will be answered when someone sees it. |
| 21:49.01 | some_alex | basically apt refuses to work with default devuan servers when I use HTTPS because the certificate is issues for a random server (such as devuan.packet-gain.de) while I'm trying to connect to deb.devuan.org |
| 21:49.20 | onefang | Correct. |
| 21:49.34 | some_alex | can this be fixed? |
| 21:49.52 | onefang | If you want to use HTTPS, pick a specific mirror that supports it. |
| 21:50.05 | onefang | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt |
| 21:50.11 | golinux | It is working properly |
| 21:50.34 | golinux | needs a nap |
| 21:50.40 | golinux | bye |
| 21:50.42 | some_alex | onefang: I see, thanks |
| 21:50.55 | Guest59969 | some_alex, don't use https for mirror access |
| 21:51.00 | onefang | You are welcome. |
| 21:51.05 | Guest59969 | all the files are verified out of band by GnuPG |
| 21:51.06 | onefang | Sleep well golinux. |
| 21:52.43 | some_alex | Guest59969: I know we have GPG. Extra layer of encryption / authentication would never hurt, would it? |
| 21:55.30 | Guest59969 | yes it does |
| 21:55.34 | onefang | Most of the mirrors support HTTPS. I believe HTTPS is now default for apt. |
| 21:55.57 | Guest59969 | as you can see, mirror redirection and transparent proxy caching don't work when you use https |
| 21:56.18 | Walex | HTTPS is pointless for package downloads and is potentially quite expensive for package servers. |
| 21:56.21 | some_alex | Guest59969: how so? |
| 21:56.49 | some_alex | onefang: after devuan install default was http until I chnaged it |
| 21:57.14 | onefang | ASCII or Beowulf? |
| 21:57.55 | Guest59969 | not to mention https uses the X.509 authentication model, which is a terrible complex standard that has way to many points of failure and all this extra complexity is completely uneeded |
| 21:58.08 | some_alex | onefang: Beowulf beta2 |
| 21:59.24 | Guest59969 | betawulf |
| 21:59.39 | onefang | We might have fixed it then, I think it's Debian Buster that new defaults to HTTPS, and Beowulf is based on Buster. I could still be wrong. lol |
| 22:00.40 | onefang | And the pros and cons of HTTPS is a #debianfork discussion. The support question was answered. |
| 22:01.14 | some_alex | onefang: got it, thanks |
| 22:15.21 | *** join/#devuan systemdlete (~systemdle@c-76-105-3-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 22:30.23 | systemdlete | Here's something kinda yeccchy: sh: 0: getcwd() failed: No such file or directory |
| 22:30.42 | systemdlete | this happened while I was cd'd into a directory under /sys |
| 22:31.23 | systemdlete | once I cd'd back out to, say, root home, the problem stopped. I was trying to figure out what is causing an error message at boot. |
| 22:31.46 | systemdlete | The error I have been seeing at boot (even after a cold reboot) is usbhid 1-5.2:1.1: couldn't find an input interrupt endpoint |
| 22:32.36 | systemdlete | It turns out the device is my mouse, which is wireless and connected via my keyboard, through a switchbox I paid a bit of money for. |
| 22:33.00 | systemdlete | But I don't notice any problems with the mouse, or the keyboard, or even the switch (which also runs on USB, btw) |
| 22:33.14 | systemdlete | This is getting... kinda frightening. |
| 22:35.28 | systemdlete | This is devuan ascii, and I've updated/upgraded as of yesterday. |
| 22:39.41 | systemdlete | correction: Seems that there is a new linux image and headers... but why didn't these upgrade? I had to manually install them, which is odd since they are already installed |
| 22:42.32 | ullet | questions questions |
| 22:42.41 | systemdlete | I know, I know... LOL |
| 22:43.14 | systemdlete | (wanna buy some linux? Hot copies, so you have to promise not to tell anyone, ok?) |
| 22:45.56 | systemdlete | I'll try rebooting into this new image and see if the error disappears... |
| 22:46.23 | ullet | ponders |
| 22:46.45 | MinceR | are you pondering what i am pondering? |
| 22:48.48 | DonkeyHotei | i think so, brain, but wouldn't the salmon just swim upstream anyway? |
| 22:49.50 | MinceR | :) |
| 22:53.15 | DonkeyHotei | narf |
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| 23:29.31 | systemdlete | Still getting that error. I'll check my logs and see if they've been showing prior to recently |
| 23:33.17 | ullet | maybe drive is going bad? |
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| 23:59.40 | systemdlete | ullet: The hard drive is RAID1, so... |