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| 00:26.49 | udn44 | Afaik "/etc/modules" is empty by default on Deb/Dev and so is "/etc/modprobe.d/" |
| 00:27.18 | udn44 | do you believe it might be a different /etc/modules used to build initrd? |
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| 00:40.43 | rrq | there's also /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and /usr/share/initramfs-tools/modules.d/* for modules to load at initrd stage .. start with "man initramfs.conf" |
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| 00:49.44 | udn44 | rrq: both are also empty... I believe when you use a cryptloop cipher, mount with a new fs type or try to handle a new protocol or iptables/nft helper, these kernel modules load on demand... I am just wondering who does it, since my understanding was that udevd only reacted to device/hardware based events signaled from the kernel and not from user |
| 00:49.45 | udn44 | space tools |
| 00:51.17 | gnarface | udn44: look in ls /lib/modules/`uname -r` |
| 00:51.27 | gnarface | udn44: sorry to be clear "ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`" |
| 00:51.41 | gnarface | udn44: look at the .dep files in there |
| 00:52.00 | rrq | udn44: you might need to follow up the initramfs scripting of the package(s) involved |
| 00:52.14 | gnarface | yea, the initramfs has it's own thing, but it's separate |
| 00:52.25 | gnarface | it kinda replicates the process |
| 00:52.32 | udn44 | yep, I see we have several thousand modules in there... but, is there a userspace tool that loads them or is the kernel loading them directly |
| 00:52.39 | gnarface | but modules can still be loaded after boot automatically, the old way, afaik |
| 00:52.56 | rrq | udn44: eg from "dpkg -L $package | grep initramfs" |
| 00:53.41 | rrq | that scripting has two parts: script for building intramfs and scripts executed duting initrd init |
| 00:53.51 | rrq | during |
| 00:54.19 | gnarface | udn44: this module-init-tools used to be the thing i'm talking about (the one separate from initramfs) but i'm seeing now they seem to have canged it to something called "kmod" as of ceres, at least, not sure about beowulf |
| 00:55.13 | gnarface | udn44: yea this ceres install has been upgraded for years. i'm not sure when module-init-tools went away but it's kmod as of beowulf too |
| 00:58.54 | udn44 | lsmod | grep "nf_" |
| 00:59.33 | gnarface | wrong window? |
| 01:01.23 | udn44 | I just cannot understand how these nf modules are not loaded during boot (initramfs) but come up on-demand, *but* without a hardware event hook which is what I thought triggered udev |
| 01:01.57 | gnarface | no, it's a software hook event for sure, it comes from the kernel, and i think calls a userspace tool |
| 01:02.04 | gnarface | i'm not 100% clear on it either |
| 01:02.10 | gnarface | but i don't think it invovles udev at all |
| 01:02.15 | udn44 | the only search result I get is initram/modules/modprobe or udev |
| 01:02.15 | gnarface | i could be wrong |
| 01:02.20 | udn44 | right, I hope so |
| 01:02.26 | gnarface | did you look at the kmod package? |
| 01:02.40 | gnarface | for boot it's initramfs tools, but after boot it is probably the kmod package |
| 01:02.56 | gnarface | (though they may be intertwined directly somehow) |
| 01:03.20 | gnarface | (but that only is if you are actually using an initramfs, which is the default but not a strict requirement) |
| 01:03.31 | udn44 | yep, but my understanding is that these are user land control tools, there is no running daemon like udevd on kmod |
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| 01:13.46 | udn44 | gnar and rrq, thanks for trying, ill keep researching and chime here my findings |
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| 05:55.44 | Admiral_Purr | Hello there. Good morning from here. Are all Debian packages available for Devuan? |
| 05:59.12 | golinux | Admiral_Purr: All except these: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 05:59.27 | Admiral_Purr | Thanks. Will have a look. |
| 05:59.40 | golinux | You can check available packages here: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ |
| 06:04.07 | Admiral_Purr | Great |
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| 08:59.36 | zalckos | does devuan use the linux-libre kernel? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-libre |
| 08:59.58 | zalckos | in other words, are there proprietary blobs present by default? |
| 09:02.55 | zalckos | or does it mirror Debian's philosophy? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/288027/what-are-the-differences-between-debian-linux-kernel-and-linux-libre |
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| 09:06.37 | xinomilo | devuan uses debian kernel |
| 09:08.25 | zalckos | ah ok ty |
| 09:10.23 | xinomilo | but you can use linux-libre if you like in devuan too.. |
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| 22:57.08 | rtn0 | i |
| 22:57.11 | rtn0 | hi |
| 22:57.36 | rtn0 | everyone |
| 22:58.09 | rtn0 | i heard that devuan does not have an installer. that it needs to be installed "on top of" an existing Debian installation. is that true? |
| 22:58.18 | golinux | No |
| 22:58.39 | golinux | https://devuan.org/os/install |
| 22:59.26 | golinux | For installation choices see https://devuan.org/get-devuan |
| 23:00.11 | nemo | rtn0: who said that? |
| 23:00.24 | rtn0 | a friend |
| 23:00.47 | rtn0 | *visits devuan.org* |
| 23:00.48 | nemo | rtn0: it did work for me on my cloud host, but not recommended |
| 23:00.57 | golinux | An knowledgeable friend |
| 23:01.44 | nemo | rtn0: does your friend use devuan? ⺠|
| 23:01.45 | golinux | An UNknowledgeable (stupid spell checker |
| 23:01.53 | golinux | ) |
| 23:01.53 | nemo | golinux: I was waiting for the </sarc> |
| 23:02.33 | golinux | That's not really sarcasm. It's a frontal attack |
| 23:05.35 | nemo | well. without the "UN" |
| 23:09.42 | rtn0 | no. he uses debian |
| 23:09.47 | rtn0 | and so do i... for now... |
| 23:09.53 | rtn0 | but i might install devuan |
| 23:10.20 | rtn0 | imma let him know. |
| 23:10.27 | rtn0 | thx all |
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| 23:27.02 | rtn0 | it was my friend CrystalMath. He claims that on older versions of Devuan, it had no installer. was it like that at one point? |
| 23:27.46 | rtn0 | on the earliest versions, it just needed to be installed "on top" of Debian, right? |
| 23:28.38 | nemo | I guess if you push any project far enough back in time you can get away with a statement like that |
| 23:28.48 | nemo | "redhat has no installer" "yes it does" |
| 23:29.11 | nemo | "well, in 1996 it was still being manually setup on the first distro machines so I was technically right" |
| 23:32.07 | nemo | golinux: hm. I figured I'd go look to see just how long you guys had been doing installer work |
| 23:32.17 | nemo | golinux: and the repo link off of https://devuan.org/os/source-code 404'd |
| 23:35.49 | rtn0 | lol |
| 23:35.58 | nemo | hm. at least 3 years back for fsmithred's stuff |
| 23:37.36 | rtn0 | ok. |
| 23:37.53 | rtn0 | so what versions of Debian are Devuan compatible with? can it be installed on Jessie? |
| 23:38.41 | nemo | "Please read relevant documentation to avoid âunintended consequencesâ. It is possible to upgrade from Devuan ASCII or migrate from Debian Buster, Stretch or Jessie to Devuan Beowulf." |
| 23:38.45 | nemo | off the frontpage ⺠|
| 23:39.01 | nemo | also https://devuan.org/os/releases |
| 23:39.57 | nemo | rtn0: could just use the installer to install clean though typically most people just really care about /home |
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| 23:40.57 | fsmithred | I'm pretty sure the valentine iso did not have an installer. That was pre-beta jessie. |
| 23:41.28 | nemo | fsmithred: I was just checking commit history on your refracta stuff ⺠|
| 23:41.36 | fsmithred | I made unofficial devuan jessie beta live isos that included refractainstaller, and there were official jessie installer isos |
| 23:42.01 | fsmithred | oh, that probably came later |
| 23:42.07 | fsmithred | um |
| 23:42.29 | fsmithred | I guess refracta tools were in repo by the time jessie was released |
| 23:42.52 | fsmithred | check github.com for the really old refracta stuff (2011) |
| 23:47.28 | rtn0 | oh i can install clean? cool. |
| 23:47.43 | rtn0 | thx for answering nemo and fsmithred |
| 23:47.45 | rtn0 | bbl |
| 23:48.09 | rtn0 | oh and thx golinux too |
| 23:48.13 | rtn0 | bbl |
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