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| 01:42.59 | fsmithred | peroffspring |
| 01:43.06 | fsmithred | furrywolf, ^^^ |
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| 02:46.27 | cloudy | hi pkginfo finds netsurf netsurf-gtk and netsurf-fb in ascii and jessie, however nothing returns for any newer branch incl experimental or chimaera, https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=netsurf-gtk also nothing of the 3 pkgs on bugs.d.o |
| 02:47.57 | cloudy | is this pkg no longer to be included/maintained rn? strangely https://repology.org/project/netsurf/versions lists 4.0 and unstable as having v. 3.10 |
| 02:48.47 | cloudy | is the mistake on repology's end? should i notify them to fix/repair their db/scripts? |
| 03:21.58 | cloudy | if it's been removed, is there a reason? I see nothing yet...also, its missing from git.d.o |
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| 03:26.40 | phidoux | steam appears to be broken in beowulf because it can't install libgl1-mesa-dri due to libstdc++6 and liblvm7 dependencies which conflict |
| 03:27.23 | phidoux | just ran into this issue on a machine i manage for a family member that uses an nvidia graphics card |
| 03:42.09 | golinux | cloudy: That is a question for Debian not Devuan |
| 03:42.24 | cloudy | ? |
| 03:42.43 | golinux | Did we fork it at some point? |
| 03:43.29 | cloudy | i dont think so, but even if unforked, arent the pkgs at least copy pasta'ed to the devuan repos themselves? |
| 03:44.11 | golinux | Yes. |
| 03:44.23 | cloudy | repology correctly reports versions in devuan 1.0 2.x, and technically in 3.0 too (it sees no versions), but somehow sees versions for 4.0 and unstable |
| 03:44.50 | golinux | The package comes directly from Debian. |
| 03:45.19 | cloudy | im not running devuan atm (ubuntu-deriv) but perhaps someone can confirm the netsur* pkgs are non-existent even in 4.0 and unstable branch? |
| 03:45.31 | golinux | We don't touch it or make any judgment on it. |
| 03:45.43 | cloudy | or ill just add those to my sources.list |
| 03:45.48 | golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=netsurf&release=any |
| 03:45.57 | golinux | Nothing after ascii. |
| 03:46.21 | gnarface | cloudy: look, they pulled it from Debian too. it's not us. we didn't do it. https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=netsurf&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all |
| 03:46.27 | cloudy | i know, i had mentioned that |
| 03:46.49 | golinux | If debian doesn;t have it. We won;t have it. |
| 03:47.00 | cloudy | im thinking maybe it was killed and repology hasnt update the missingness yet |
| 03:47.18 | gnarface | cloudy: they usually have a good reason, but your only appropriate recourse is to file a bug report at bugs.debian.org. if you want to take inappropriate recourse, just go into #debian and start a fight. |
| 03:47.27 | phidoux | ok thanks for the info |
| 03:47.55 | golinux | You could try installing the ascii version. |
| 03:48.08 | gnarface | phidoux: fundamentally your issue is the same, but they're likely to actually fix your issue on their own without intervention |
| 03:48.24 | gnarface | phidoux: (steam was working here in beowulf recently) |
| 03:48.34 | phidoux | yes i knwo |
| 03:48.36 | phidoux | i know |
| 03:48.49 | gnarface | phidoux: you might have luck using the kernel and mesa from beowulf-backports though. |
| 03:48.56 | phidoux | which is why i mentioned it so hope fully some one knows |
| 03:49.08 | gnarface | phidoux: even if you don't need the newer versions, backports may have sidestepped whatever mess they've made currently |
| 03:49.29 | cloudy | debian has it in bullseye and sid, missing from buster...v strange indeed, ill talk to debian then |
| 03:50.02 | phidoux | i will have to see what i can work out |
| 03:50.18 | phidoux | going to reboot for now thanks |
| 03:52.47 | golinux | cloudy: If it were in bullseye if would be in our chimaera. |
| 03:53.35 | gnarface | golinux: isn't bullseye still mapped to sid/ceres? |
| 03:53.44 | golinux | No chimaera |
| 03:53.53 | gnarface | oh, i guess that makes sense |
| 03:54.29 | golinux | But I just noticed that it's still listed as unstable in the banned pkg list |
| 03:54.54 | golinux | I'll go report that now |
| 03:55.10 | golinux | Or not listed actually because unstable is ceres. |
| 03:56.44 | cloudy | https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=bullseye&searchon=names&keywords=netsurf |
| 03:58.15 | cloudy | is the banned pkg list public? link? |
| 03:58.24 | cloudy | golinux: |
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| 03:59.13 | golinux | Yes. https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 04:05.35 | cloudy | ty |
| 04:05.54 | golinux | yw |
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| 04:32.42 | cloudy | i dont know if hyperbola ppl are just wiser or if they're seriously underestimating workloads... |
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| 04:33.46 | cloudy | devuan already has a hard time revoing systemd, and has some experimental nodbus images, hyperbola is trying to remove the above two and a plethora of other packages, including pam, the *kits, xorg and many more... |
| 04:34.30 | cloudy | and they seem to have fewer devs to do so |
| 04:35.05 | cloudy | any thoughts on this? are they just insane/overconfident? |
| 04:36.08 | golinux | That speculation is more for #devuan-offtopic than here ;) |
| 04:36.53 | cloudy | sorry |
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| 06:29.16 | Oksana | Which network manager is recommended for usage in Devuan? I am currently using Wicd with XFCE4 desktop environment. |
| 06:31.05 | Oksana | I am trying to figure out how to integrate openconnect with wicd. Usually, I manually run openconnect from a terminal, with sudo. If I put openconnect command into wicd postconnect script, do I need to write sudo in the script as well, or not? |
| 06:34.17 | Oksana | Also, I usually type in VPN password manually when starting openconnect from terminal. But that can probably be typed in script like https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenConnect#netctl |
| 06:34.19 | gnarface | Oksana: wicd is the default for a reason, but that reason doesn't sound like it fits your use case anymore |
| 06:34.40 | gnarface | Oksana: frankly i think you've grown out of network managers from the sounds of it, but i don't know anything about openconnect |
| 06:35.35 | gnarface | Oksana: wicd should be using some permissions backend to get root access so depending on how it calls scripts it might not need sudo but i don't know for sure |
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| 06:36.20 | cloudy | Oksana: does your work/org require cisco or pulse to connect? why need openconnect? just curious |
| 06:39.27 | Oksana | Yes, they recommend cisco, I think. |
| 06:41.23 | gnarface | Oksana: worst comes to worst, you can likely just ditch wicd entirely and put the commands in your /etc/network/interfaces file directly, tied to an "up" clause |
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| 06:42.16 | gnarface | Oksana: (they will also be executed with root permission there, but that file is globally readable by default so if it includes your VPN password make sure you "chmod go-a" it |
| 06:42.18 | gnarface | ) |
| 06:42.50 | gnarface | Oksana: (it's globally readable by default, but only root actually has to be able to read it so you can safely correct that) |
| 06:43.43 | gnarface | Oksana: it might be fully doable with wicd, i don't know. i had to figure out all this stuff before network managers existed |
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| 08:00.12 | telmich__ | good morning |
| 08:00.29 | telmich__ | it seems the website and potentially more is down - I guess it's a known problem? |
| 08:01.30 | gnarface | telmich__: seems fine here. is it still down for you? |
| 08:03.04 | telmich__ | IPv6 is down, gnarface |
| 08:03.11 | telmich__ | * connect to 2001:41d0:2:1f68::3624:8eb3 port 443 failed: Connection refused |
| 08:05.37 | telmich__ | I assume somebody reconfigured && forgot the listen statement for ipv6 in nginx |
| 08:09.03 | gnarface | oh, that |
| 08:09.17 | gnarface | yea i wouldn't have noticed, i'm still blocking ipv6 traffic here |
| 08:09.41 | gnarface | too many security risks and no valid use cases |
| 08:09.52 | gnarface | if you are stuck with it i truly pity you |
| 08:10.12 | openbsdtai123 | hello |
| 08:10.36 | gnarface | openbsdtai123: hello |
| 08:11.19 | gnarface | openbsdtai123: if you have questions, it's best to just ask them and wait patiently |
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| 08:16.16 | openbsdtai123 | so far, no question. how are you gnarface? |
| 08:19.31 | gnarface | openbsdtai123: i'd rather not say |
| 08:19.36 | gnarface | openbsdtai123: thanks for caring though |
| 08:26.06 | openbsdtai123 | anytime. you are welcome. I need to go, see you later -- have a nice day,. |
| 08:40.35 | golinux | telmich__: Nice to see you here. |
| 08:41.09 | golinux | I didn't know the website was configured for IPv6 |
| 08:41.41 | golinux | rrq: ^^^ |
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| 09:55.13 | telmich__ | gnarface: we are actually running a whole data center ipv6 only - so far relying on Devuan |
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| 10:15.37 | roo^y | I'm a few days into running Beowulf on my Mele pcg35 apo. I haven't updated from stock release, & my screen just went black, & KB won't turn it's lights on for caps lock, num Lock etc |
| 10:19.32 | roo^y | Unlikely a heat issue, as I sit here in very cold Australia. Other screens & keyboards make no change |
| 10:23.28 | openbsdtai123 | Since everyone seems to use whatsapp, there is no choice. How to run whatsapp on devuan ?? it seems that there is not much way, not to use it since there is no linux version. Is there maybe a workaround to install it? |
| 10:27.45 | roo^y | A android emulator (the way ubports uses android apps) |
| 10:44.12 | sixwheeledbeast | There is always a choice. |
| 10:45.22 | sixwheeledbeast | There is no way i would be pressured into using a platform if I don't like there privacy policy. |
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| 11:05.08 | roo^y | Now Beowulf won't boot past a maron screen. Can go into recovery boot, & allows maintenance from CMD line |
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| 11:30.31 | gnarface | roo^y: it's most likely something you installed/upgraded recently then, if the problem persists through reboot... though there are some rare types of driver crashes that can persist through a reboot so do a cold boot once to be thorough |
| 11:31.46 | gnarface | roo^y: the screen going black part also might have been expected behavior (under most default configurations the screen would blank after 306 seconds or something like that) and the crash may have happened afterwards whether or not it was even related |
| 11:32.24 | gnarface | roo^y: that also strongly hints to a driver issue, particularly with the video card or with something related to power management |
| 11:33.32 | brocashelm | does anyone run vrms every now and then out of curiosity? the only "bad" package i got is firmware-amd-graphics, but that's so i could configure my monitors. i guess i'll write angry letters to amd until they release fully libre drivers |
| 11:34.08 | roo^y | Live version from USB doesn't get past a blue screen with a mouse. I'll see if another OS will boot |
| 11:36.31 | gnarface | roo^y: maybe try the mini.iso one |
| 11:36.48 | gnarface | roo^y: (no gui enabled by default, might dodge the issue you're having if it's gui related) |
| 11:38.05 | roo^y | Until now, the live Beowulf did work, which installed it to ssd, & it's been running for a few days |
| 11:38.49 | Joril | openbsdtai123: I just use web.whatsapp.com from inside a browser |
| 11:49.18 | gnarface | roo^y: so, a few days, but did you install anything during that time, particularly towards the end of that time, like in the last couple hours before the screen went black? |
| 11:49.50 | gnarface | roo^y: also, can you ssh into it? |
| 11:50.55 | roo^y | That's a bit beyond my n00bness at the moment |
| 11:51.56 | gnarface | roo^y: well, one thing that would be a good test is to have an open ssh connection when it initially locks up, see if you can still maintain control remotely, this narrows down the potential causes and gives you some leverage to deal with the issues |
| 11:52.44 | gnarface | roo^y: based only on what you've told me so far though, i can't rule out hardware failure |
| 11:53.42 | gnarface | roo^y: i'd need to see some more tests, but the initial behavior fits the profile for having burnt out a chunk of video ram |
| 11:54.14 | gnarface | roo^y: but like i said before, if you installed anything within a few hours before it blackscreened initially, that's the most likely culprit |
| 11:54.41 | gnarface | roo^y: it might have been something from a 3rd party repo, if you were distro mixing this could happen too... |
| 11:56.45 | roo^y | I usually boot refracta ASCII on another partition of SSD. FAIL! Hardware fail it is! Another distro on USB didn't launch either. I happen to have a spare Mele pcg35 apo. I'm doubting the win10 on the onboard chip will boot either, if it's fried a GPU gnarface |
| 11:58.02 | gnarface | roo^y: well, if not much of the video ram is fried, you might get sporadic success |
| 11:58.30 | gnarface | roo^y: i had found some way to map around bad system ram but at the time it wouldn't work on video card ram, but maybe someone has something for that... |
| 11:59.28 | gnarface | roo^y: and don't forget to try cold boot if you haven't yet. shut it down all the way, unplug it, unplug the battery (if furnished) and then wait 10 seconds or so before powering it back up again |
| 11:59.33 | roo^y | I've been only turning off the screen, so the screensaver may've been FAR too much for the hardware to run for hours |
| 12:00.05 | gnarface | roo^y: (i've seen a lot of things that look like hardware failure but were just an artifact of bad driver and bios misbehaviors combined with residual memory capacitance) |
| 12:00.34 | gnarface | roo^y: (some of those opengl screensavers are just as likely to cause such a driver crash as they would be to overheat the hardware) |
| 12:01.03 | roo^y | Yes, I've been turning off the UPS between boots |
| 12:01.36 | gnarface | yea, maybe swap the video card then and see if that brings it back to life |
| 12:01.55 | gnarface | and for the future - don't use the opengl screensavers |
| 12:01.59 | gnarface | they're real bad |
| 12:02.03 | gnarface | they are dangerous |
| 12:02.07 | gnarface | to people and hardware alike |
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| 12:02.18 | roo^y | I doubt the video card is external on this mini pc |
| 12:03.04 | gnarface | the guy who wrote them actually rage quit his entire coding career and opened a bar instead, over persistent gpu driver bugs that still to this day plague those screensavers |
| 12:03.22 | roo^y | Haha |
| 12:03.24 | gnarface | the old pixel-based ones seem safe though |
| 12:06.34 | roo^y | I guess I'll be able to run a GPU test from some hirens boot cd if installed to boot partition.. |
| 12:08.31 | roo^y | If fried, not all lost, if I use as some cli server.. |
| 12:09.04 | gnarface | oh, and you said you were sure it's not overheating, but you did check the fans, right? |
| 12:09.30 | gnarface | dead fans can cause overheating even in a cold room |
| 12:09.35 | gnarface | depends on the hardware though |
| 12:09.51 | gnarface | some of it is more sensitive than others |
| 12:10.10 | roo^y | It's fanless. Cold down in AU. & Wasn't working very hard when it "crashed" |
| 12:10.51 | gnarface | well that's the thing though, you could be onto something about the screensavers if it was a opengl screensaver... it could have been working a lot harder at it than you'd expect |
| 12:11.09 | roo^y | I was just chatting here in IRC & it went down |
| 12:11.11 | gnarface | (another complaint about the opengl screensavers is there's no responsible frame limiting) |
| 12:11.25 | gnarface | oh, if the screensaver wasn't even running though that's a different matter |
| 12:12.24 | roo^y | Definately didn't show signs of trouble before it died |
| 12:13.03 | gnarface | do you know which cpu frequency scaler you were using? ondemand? schedutil? performance? |
| 12:13.51 | roo^y | No, default install |
| 12:13.53 | gnarface | performance is more prone to causing overheating, but the others can be related to instability issues |
| 12:14.22 | gnarface | if this is using one of the ARM images i don't know what it would be |
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| 12:14.34 | Oksana | gnarface: Thank you. I don't fully understand phrase >> you've grown out of network managers from the sounds of it <<. Does it mean that GUI network managers are kids' playground, and adults have got to use CLI tools? If so, I find it unfair - just like condemning adults to reading books without illustrations. |
| 12:14.38 | gnarface | the default install probably uses ondemand or schedutil |
| 12:16.02 | gnarface | Oksana: it's emotionally self-destructive for you to characterize it that way. characterize it more like "it'll probably take you less time to learn how to edit the very simple text-based format of the /etc/network/interfaces file than it would to figure out how to fix whatever is wrong with wicd" |
| 12:16.27 | gnarface | Oksana: that said, i don't use wicd, so you should get a second opinion from someone who does |
| 12:16.42 | Oksana | nods |
| 12:16.58 | gnarface | Oksana: "man interfaces" for the documentation on that file, by the way. there's no pictures but it's also not complicated |
| 12:17.28 | gnarface | Oksana: if you start editing it directly though, any gui network utility will start to conflict with your changes |
| 12:17.35 | Oksana | It is problematic enough that I don't know whether VNC client for Sailfish OS works or not, and there is no RDP client for Sailfish OS at the moment. |
| 12:18.22 | gnarface | Oksana: well, i don't know about sailfish either, but there are several choices of vnc clients in the debian/devuan repos |
| 12:18.35 | Oksana | Problem is, I prefer consistency. Aka, if I am using GUI for anything, then I am using GUI for everything. If I am using Gtk2 widgets, then I don't want to see Gtk3 or Qt anywhere. |
| 12:20.06 | gnarface | Oksana: well, i think two network managers are wicd and network-manager |
| 12:20.14 | gnarface | Oksana: *i think the only two... |
| 12:20.47 | Oksana | And it doesn't help that computers have a habit of stopping working unpredictably. I suspect that remote computer suffered from power outage - three remote computers are no longer reachable, and that's despite VPN seemingly fine (I run openconnect with -v for verbose, everything seems fine) |
| 12:21.07 | Oksana | There is also netctl, but it's probably CLI, not GUI? |
| 12:21.22 | gnarface | Oksana: KDE might have a network manager that is unique to KDE that is not the others |
| 12:21.34 | gnarface | Oksana: either that or it's just using network-manager too |
| 12:21.51 | Oksana | And unfortunately, remote computers are desktops, aka, no batteries. Which increases probability of file corruption due to power outage. |
| 12:22.30 | gnarface | Oksana: file corruption risk should be fairly limited unless these are Windows machines you're talking about |
| 12:23.13 | gnarface | Oksana: i really don't know about netctl either. the /etc/network/interfaces file format is laughably easy. to the point you might be angry at yourself for avoiding trying it bare. |
| 12:23.31 | Oksana | wants a laptop-desktop hybrid: battery yes, compactness yes, display no, keyboard no - battery solely for the purpose of kind shut-down, aka a few minutes, not for hours-long-work |
| 12:23.50 | Oksana | gnarface: Yes, they are unfortunately Windows |
| 12:23.59 | Oksana | Not my choice |
| 12:24.24 | gnarface | APC sells mini UPSes embedded in power splitters, might be worth looking into |
| 12:24.52 | gnarface | it's like a slightly bulky looking surge protector, but it also provides a few minutes of battery for clean shutdown, just like you want |
| 12:25.06 | roo^y | My Mele is Intel. Win10 that it came with on its inbuilt 32gb chip still boots without issue |
| 12:25.29 | Oksana | mini UPSes... Interesting. Not sure that workplace IT will be fine with such devices, but will see. |
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| 12:26.11 | gnarface | around here outages are rare but brownouts are common... some sort of battery is essential if you want any type of uptime |
| 12:28.14 | gnarface | i even put my tivo on a battery |
| 12:28.19 | gnarface | shit's getting ridiculous |
| 12:29.35 | gnarface | actually, that thing about computers having a strong habit of stopping working unpredictably... i don't find that to be the case for me anymore since i put everything on batteries and disabled power management |
| 12:30.37 | gnarface | the largest culprit for bringing down servers was bios issues related to various power saving features and basic dirty power |
| 12:30.46 | Oksana | Cannot find mini UPS yet? These ones are huge... https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/ups-uninterruptible-power-supplies/7793807/ |
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| 12:31.43 | gnarface | stand by i'll try to dig up something |
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| 12:36.04 | Oksana | This one looks interesting, https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/APC-POWER-SAVING-BACK-UPS-8-OUTLET/233551421117 darn expensive though - and if I want workplace to pay for it (doubtful), then I better find something new, not used |
| 12:38.33 | gnarface | Oksana: do you see a "Back-UPS 650" anywhere? |
| 12:39.23 | gnarface | Oksana: oh, the 8-outlet 550VA is probably in the same line |
| 12:39.48 | gnarface | Oksana: yea, you're probably not gonna get something for less than ~$80 unless it's on sale or you make it yourself |
| 12:40.18 | gnarface | Oksana: but on the plus side, you can probably safely hook all 3 machines to just one of them as long as all you need is a few minutes to shut down |
| 12:40.54 | Oksana | gnarface: Unfortunately, two are on one room, and one is in another room. So, two devices would be required, at least. |
| 12:41.41 | gnarface | Oksana: APC and some other companies also sell power-conditioning surge protectors that might be sufficient to iron out your dirty power (maybe - ymmv) |
| 12:42.05 | Oksana | No idea. I don't expect it's just brownout, though I wouldn't know. |
| 12:42.25 | gnarface | it's pretty obvious here because the lights dim |
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| 12:42.50 | gnarface | when the lights all dim for a second then you hear a bunch of beeps in the computer room, then you know |
| 12:43.07 | Oksana | Doesn't help that at least two computers out of three will not be able to boot just because somebody pressed a power button. One of them will complain about hard drives inserted and attempt to boot from them, while another will complain that RAID has never been set up. |
| 12:43.27 | gnarface | yuck, bios issues that can't be changed, eh? |
| 12:43.45 | Oksana | Cannot observe lights dim remotely from distance of a few kilometers, unfortunately... |
| 12:44.04 | gnarface | might be worth looking into seeing if libreboot supports those machines if the stock bioses suck that much |
| 12:44.43 | gnarface | oh, i guess i don't actually know if libreboot supports Windows though |
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| 12:46.26 | Oksana | Hmm... https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Apc-Schneider-Pnoteproc6-ec-Surgearrest-Notebookpro-C6/274327248213 |
| 12:48.57 | gnarface | as long as it's not a counterfeit... apc.com says it's discontinued |
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| 12:51.23 | ShorTie | doesn't look big enough to me for a battery |
| 12:51.49 | gnarface | it's not, it just has power conditioning |
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| 12:51.58 | gnarface | that one isn't a battery back-up |
| 12:52.06 | gnarface | it's just a power conditioning surge suppressor |
| 12:52.20 | gnarface | but if you actually just have brownouts and not actual blackouts (however brief) it might be enough |
| 12:53.12 | ShorTie | doesn't look big enough to me for a big cap, lol. |
| 12:53.18 | gnarface | they are usually a lot cheaper because most the cost is the battery |
| 12:53.29 | gnarface | yea honestly i dunno |
| 12:53.39 | gnarface | i buy the bigger ones because you can hook more machines to them at once |
| 12:54.05 | ShorTie | oh so true |
| 12:55.45 | roo^y | I just watched a 3.5 minute video on my Mele (running win10) to confirm the video hardware is still pretty good gnarface. Perhaps your right about a driver, which won't let it fully boot from the internal SSD or external usb |
| 12:55.54 | ShorTie | i have most of my electronic things pluged in, 6 apc's here |
| 12:57.07 | gnarface | roo^y: this one is in text mode: https://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/minimal-live/ |
| 12:57.31 | roo^y | Thanks |
| 13:00.21 | gnarface | roo^y: it's also possible still there's bad ram but the windows driver just happens to fill from the other end or something, so you wouldn't necessarily notice any problems unless you ran something that used 100% of video ram, with the mini live image you should be able to find out for sure |
| 13:01.07 | gnarface | roo^y: if there's bad video ram you'd eventually see corrupted text, too |
| 13:01.32 | gnarface | roo^y: if the text mode is fine you know it's the driver or the kernel or mesa |
| 13:02.11 | brocashelm | is it ok to keep beowulf repos after switching to testing? |
| 13:02.40 | gnarface | brocashelm: i would advise against it but it might not matter... why not just comment them out to be safe though? |
| 13:03.14 | brocashelm | gnarface: some packages i needed weren't on chimaera |
| 13:03.53 | brocashelm | gnarface: also, i was hoping to upgrade my libc6 to 2.29 for a point upgrade on another package needing that |
| 13:04.23 | roo^y | gnarface: I spoke too soon *update* My Win10 has gone to a black screen, with a flashing white mouse arrow I can move around |
| 13:06.20 | roo^y | Sorry again (screen woke up from that sleep) it's fine again! |
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| 13:21.52 | brocashelm | ah, realized i had it as /devuan chimaera, rather than /merged chimaera (for the /etc/apt/sources.list file). now i'm getting thousands of upgradable packages |
| 13:31.22 | gnarface | ah ha! |
| 13:31.27 | gnarface | yea that'll do it |
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| 13:33.14 | brocashelm | i commented the others out lol |
| 13:33.23 | brocashelm | and i'm doing this on console just to be safe |
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| 13:59.56 | fsmithred | brocashelm, FTR, I kept ascii repos active when I first upgraded to beowulf, but that was before most forked packages were not ready for beowulf. Chimaera is in better shape right now. |
| 14:00.19 | fsmithred | ^^^ remove the extra negative |
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| 15:08.53 | brocashelm | fsmithred: finished the upgrade process awhile ago and it's working amazingly well |
| 15:18.26 | fsmithred | cool |
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| 17:41.50 | roo^y | i had a 'scare' earlier of full-installed Devuan Beowulf going to a black screen, & the usb KB was unresponsive like it was unplugged. The best I could do after that, was boot to a CMD line (w/ the optional recovery boot (if that's what the alternative grub one ending in "..(re.." is)) |
| 17:41.54 | roo^y | The Beowulf live-desktop wouldn't fully boot either. An experiment of booting Easy OS barely made it past it's boot manager. Refracta ASCII booted to a black screen, where I got distracted & left it for a while. |
| 17:42.02 | roo^y | It was then able to boot into Win10 that it came with, on it's internal chip. I powered off & now Beowulf boots again! This time greeting me with the login screen. Hopefully a upgrade of packages will stop this from happening |
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| 18:19.42 | brocashelm | i would say chimaera is already miles better than beowulf |
| 18:19.55 | brocashelm | and by far the most stable devuan yet |
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| 18:21.38 | brocashelm | i have not had any breaks and did the proper steps to ensure all packages were in check. the kernel is at 5.7 now and even the pointer acceleration is improved |
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| 18:35.42 | fsmithred | I've been using beowulf since the beginning of this year, and it's been very stable for me. |
| 18:36.56 | mason | Same, although perhaps even longer for a couple boxes. |
| 18:37.58 | mason | Alright, December. Not much longer. But it's been utterly stable and reliable. |
| 18:38.23 | brocashelm | beowulf was what got me to make that switch |
| 18:38.33 | fsmithred | yeah, I installed at the end of december and took a couple weeks to get it set up before it was my main system. |
| 18:38.57 | brocashelm | i had problems with ascii and kept getting discouraged |
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| 18:40.14 | fsmithred | I think maybe there are some tricky spots in every release, and if you don't know about them, they are very frustrating |
| 18:40.25 | mason | That's for sure. |
| 18:40.32 | brocashelm | yeah, true |
| 18:40.34 | fsmithred | I fought with getting synaptic to start from menu in Refracta |
| 18:40.51 | fsmithred | for a long time. More than a year |
| 18:41.53 | brocashelm | i try to stay away from synaptic and gdebi as much as possible |
| 18:42.09 | fsmithred | me too, but it's gotta be there for other people |
| 18:42.31 | brocashelm | the people coming from ubuntu/mint, yeah |
| 18:42.59 | fsmithred | lol, I came from SuSE so I was used to graphical tools |
| 18:43.09 | brocashelm | i do use dpkg -i to install deb files, if needed |
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| 18:43.59 | brocashelm | i was on mint for a few years, but i started with ubuntu 9.10 back in the early 2010s |
| 18:45.23 | brocashelm | devuan just feels right to me and more stable than ubuntu and its forks, even before the systemDisease |
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| 18:46.02 | brocashelm | is the 66 init still going as planned? |
| 18:47.11 | fsmithred | haven't heard anything in a long time |
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| 18:50.30 | roo^y | my 1st ubuntu may have been 10.10, live on 1GB RAM. Upgraded through to 12.04, & milked that more than a dairy cow! |
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| 18:53.04 | brocashelm | nice. i was hunting down PPAs to keep mint 18.3 going while i looked around to replace it |
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| 18:56.12 | roo^y | not long after i found ubuntu, i tried live Mint. I opened web tab after web tab, & was entertained of how hard it was to crash ..live ubuntu had been so easy to run out of memory/over-whem the processor, to bite the bullet |
| 18:56.42 | fsmithred | we should move to offtopic |
| 18:57.07 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
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| 19:03.42 | fsmithred | roo^y, ^^^ join us |
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| 19:20.55 | yeti | you meant #debianfork!!!! määäääääääään! |
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| 21:45.12 | roo^y | one of the 3 things populated by 'sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' is: Repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable' This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. So I find https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt-secure.8.en.html which doesn't teach me anything obvious |
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| 22:01.33 | systemdlete | can't seem to delete/extract portions of audio with audacity. Audacity seems to be ignoring keyboard input. Menus disable edit options even after selecting a portion of the track. |
| 22:01.58 | systemdlete | this is on ascii, with the stock version of audacity, whatever that is. |
| 22:04.34 | systemdlete | for comparison, vlc works as expected, and so do all other programs. |
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| 22:18.36 | roo^y | brocashelm: where can devuan chimaera be downloaded from? |
| 22:18.57 | golinux | files.devuan.org |
| 22:21.13 | roo^y | already checked there. No chimaera 4 |
| 22:21.52 | systemdlete | golinux: ^^^ |
| 22:22.00 | systemdlete | any idea? |
| 22:22.55 | golinux | Oh . . .duh . . . |
| 22:23.13 | golinux | Of course no isos yet. Just upgrade from ascii |
| 22:23.53 | golinux | just woke up from a nap |
| 22:26.05 | roo^y | for me that translates to: clone beowulf partition to it's neighboring partition, then upgrade to chimaera ..to have both :) thanks |
| 22:34.09 | golinux | fsmithred may have some test refracta isos |
| 22:35.34 | fsmithred | yeah, I have some chimaera isos |
| 22:35.45 | fsmithred | I think |
| 22:35.50 | fsmithred | just one. amd64: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/snapshot_chimaera_01-20200702_1212.iso |
| 22:36.01 | fsmithred | not a lot of grooming went into that one |
| 22:36.10 | roo^y | thx |
| 22:36.35 | fsmithred | it has openbox and lxpanel |
| 22:36.50 | fsmithred | I don't remember what else |
| 22:38.00 | roo^y | updating is scuffed in beowulf. 2nd of the 3 things populated by 'sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' is: Repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing-updates' to 'stable-updates' This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. |
| 22:38.58 | fsmithred | do 'apt update' and say yes |
| 22:39.00 | fsmithred | you really got that message with apt-get? |
| 22:39.02 | fsmithred | oh |
| 22:39.02 | fsmithred | apt asks you to answer yes or no |
| 22:40.48 | roo^y | apt worked, downloaded |
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| 22:41.21 | fsmithred | you're upgrading to beowulf or from beowulf to chimaera? |
| 22:41.37 | fsmithred | oh, nm |
| 22:41.42 | fsmithred | I understand the problem |
| 22:42.20 | roo^y | currently wanting package updates for beowulf, not moving to chimaera |
| 22:43.01 | fsmithred | this is a new beowulf install? |
| 22:43.13 | roo^y | yes |
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| 22:45.50 | roo^y | both sudo apt upgrade & sudo apt-get upgrade, populate: E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) & E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), is another process using it? |
| 22:46.16 | fsmithred | I would guess that the answer to that last question is yes |
| 22:46.26 | roo^y | heh, i have synaptic open might be why! |
| 22:46.30 | fsmithred | yup |
| 22:46.49 | fsmithred | been there done that |
| 22:46.52 | brocashelm | it's the gooey's fault heh |
| 22:47.14 | fsmithred | also done it in two different terminals |
| 22:47.42 | brocashelm | lol |
| 22:48.00 | roo^y | terminal working now :) |
| 22:50.47 | systemdlete | anyone here successfully using audacity to extract audio segments? |
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| 22:52.46 | roo^y | done. done. It'd require a reboot to take full affect wouldn't it? |
| 22:53.33 | brocashelm | yes |
| 22:54.06 | brocashelm | i have no problems with chimaera; i should've upgraded sooner |
| 22:56.51 | roo^y | refracta ascii didn't do anything weird like the meltdown I had with screen/KB earlier, so got fingers crossed with all these healthy nutritious updates :P |
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| 23:17.32 | fsmithred | systemdlete, yes I've used audacity to extract audio from video (or from audio) |
| 23:17.49 | systemdlete | on ascii? |
| 23:17.54 | systemdlete | or beowulf? |
| 23:18.04 | fsmithred | not sure if I've done it on beowulf |
| 23:18.13 | fsmithred | ascii, jessie, wheezy at least |
| 23:18.14 | systemdlete | so on ascii for sure then |
| 23:18.16 | systemdlete | ok |
| 23:18.19 | fsmithred | hang on and I'll do one |
| 23:18.28 | fsmithred | what's the problem? |
| 23:19.04 | systemdlete | it seems the program is not responding to input from the keyboard for one, and for another, after I select a segment of audio, it doesn't give me the edit options in the menu |
| 23:19.23 | systemdlete | every other program works fine (as far as they normally do, at least) |
| 23:19.43 | systemdlete | btw, just fyi -- this is on host hardware, not a VM |
| 23:20.33 | fsmithred | space bar stops play |
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| 23:20.50 | fsmithred | I never use keyboard with audacity. What else can it do? |
| 23:21.03 | systemdlete | what happens if you hit F1? |
| 23:21.09 | systemdlete | that did nothing on mine |
| 23:21.36 | fsmithred | yeah, nothing |
| 23:21.40 | systemdlete | aha! |
| 23:21.59 | systemdlete | try selecting just a portion of the audio or video and save it |
| 23:22.02 | fsmithred | what should it do? |
| 23:22.12 | fsmithred | I already selected, copied and pasted into a new file |
| 23:22.51 | systemdlete | now try playing it |
| 23:23.07 | systemdlete | it should play just what you selected |
| 23:23.26 | fsmithred | yeah, it all works |
| 23:23.39 | systemdlete | fsmithred: When I saved, it saved the entire file! |
| 23:23.58 | fsmithred | I never save projects |
| 23:24.04 | fsmithred | I export to an audio file |
| 23:24.06 | systemdlete | not project, just the file |
| 23:25.03 | fsmithred | I've never gotten it to save a file |
| 23:25.10 | fsmithred | an audio file I mean |
| 23:25.24 | systemdlete | oh crud |
| 23:25.36 | fsmithred | save project is the only 'save' function |
| 23:25.39 | systemdlete | I thought it had an option to save just the file. Then that makes sense |
| 23:25.40 | fsmithred | export |
| 23:25.44 | systemdlete | ah! |
| 23:25.48 | systemdlete | ok, let me try that. |
| 23:25.50 | fsmithred | similar to gimp |
| 23:25.58 | systemdlete | right. |
| 23:26.00 | systemdlete | my duh. |
| 23:26.03 | systemdlete | thanks |
| 23:26.38 | fsmithred | and when I close a file, it asks to save, and I always say NO |
| 23:27.00 | fsmithred | that's also standard procedure at the radio station I help out |
| 23:27.20 | systemdlete | ok, so I select the section of the audio I want, but export is disabled? |
| 23:27.45 | fsmithred | select, Edit-copy, File-new, Edit-paste |
| 23:27.54 | fsmithred | then export from the new file |
| 23:27.59 | systemdlete | copy is disabled too |
| 23:28.30 | fsmithred | maybe re-select your selection |
| 23:28.37 | fsmithred | that's weird |
| 23:29.00 | systemdlete | I click on the point on the graphic where my selection starts and drag right to the end |
| 23:29.10 | systemdlete | that's select I thought |
| 23:29.23 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 23:29.27 | systemdlete | there's a double-headed arrow showing the begin/end |
| 23:29.32 | fsmithred | if you hit the play button, just that segment should play |
| 23:29.39 | systemdlete | it does |
| 23:29.47 | fsmithred | no arrows here, just white background on the selection |
| 23:29.47 | systemdlete | but the export and the edit options are disabled |
| 23:30.01 | fsmithred | oh |
| 23:30.16 | fsmithred | arrows are in the timer bar above the wave |
| 23:30.28 | systemdlete | sorry, yes. |
| 23:30.37 | systemdlete | (I figure you are expert at this) |
| 23:30.45 | *** part/#devuan james1138 (~James1138@71.36.13.61) |
| 23:30.53 | fsmithred | I don't do it often, but I've been doing it a long time |
| 23:31.00 | systemdlete | you say "white background" -- mine is sort of that ugly grey default color |
| 23:31.07 | fsmithred | and winamp before linux |
| 23:31.42 | fsmithred | thunder is coming |
| 23:31.53 | systemdlete | another thing: At the bottom, "Selection Start:" and the other counters do not reflect my selections |
| 23:32.01 | systemdlete | Not sure if that matters |
| 23:32.14 | fsmithred | mine do |
| 23:32.31 | systemdlete | so mine are not updating... the DE I am using? |
| 23:32.38 | systemdlete | xfce |
| 23:32.42 | fsmithred | xfce here |
| 23:32.48 | fsmithred | cinnabar theme |
| 23:32.57 | fsmithred | 48000Hz |
| 23:33.31 | systemdlete | preferences is greyed out also? |
| 23:33.37 | fsmithred | I have ugly gray bg on unselected areas, white on selected |
| 23:33.41 | systemdlete | I am donig SOMETHING wrong |
| 23:33.50 | fsmithred | yours is broken |
| 23:34.12 | fsmithred | Help, About 2.2.2 |
| 23:34.16 | systemdlete | I didn't mean to, honestly... :D |
| 23:34.27 | systemdlete | 2.1.2 |
| 23:34.31 | systemdlete | You may have nailed it |
| 23:34.55 | systemdlete | I just installed it today |
| 23:34.56 | fsmithred | yeah, there were some problems with 2.1.something |
| 23:35.00 | systemdlete | like, an hour ago |
| 23:35.01 | fsmithred | in beowulf? |
| 23:35.05 | systemdlete | ascii |
| 23:35.08 | fsmithred | oh |
| 23:35.17 | systemdlete | you told me you are ascii also |
| 23:35.18 | fsmithred | check backports |
| 23:35.22 | systemdlete | ok |
| 23:38.05 | fsmithred | if not, I have 2.2.1 packaged for ascii |
| 23:38.24 | fsmithred | http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/extra_packages/ |
| 23:38.37 | systemdlete | nah. not in ascii-backports |
| 23:38.45 | fsmithred | audacity and audacity-data |
| 23:38.49 | fsmithred | amd64 |
| 23:39.23 | fsmithred | actually, the one you have should not be as broken as it is |
| 23:39.55 | systemdlete | I will un-break it then... |
| 23:40.42 | fsmithred | maybe move ~/.audacity-data and maybe reinstall the packages |
| 23:40.54 | fsmithred | or purge and reinstall |
| 23:42.18 | fsmithred | did roo^y ever reboot? |
| 23:42.37 | fsmithred | I'm gonna be afk soon |
| 23:43.03 | systemdlete | fsmithred: what should my "deb" line look like in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/refracta? |
| 23:43.17 | systemdlete | it croaks on it |
| 23:43.42 | roo^y | i'll shutdown soon. coming up 10am thurs in Australia ..bit past my bed time |
| 23:44.31 | fsmithred | systemdlete, that file should not exist |
| 23:44.36 | fsmithred | does it??? |
| 23:44.48 | systemdlete | no, I'm creating it. No? |
| 23:45.05 | fsmithred | there is no refracta repo |
| 23:45.10 | fsmithred | just devuan |
| 23:45.25 | systemdlete | how do I install the 2.2.1 version? |
| 23:45.34 | systemdlete | download and dpkg -i ? |
| 23:45.38 | fsmithred | download the debs in the link I provided |
| 23:45.41 | fsmithred | yeah dpkg -i |
| 23:45.42 | systemdlete | ok |