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| 05:35.26 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | what is this -enable-kvm coming from |
| 05:35.38 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | hasn't it always been -machine accel=kvm |
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| 06:11.54 | DonkeyHotei | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: no. |
| 06:12.32 | DonkeyHotei | it was always -enable-kvm |
| 06:12.44 | DonkeyHotei | the accel thing is recent |
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| 08:23.13 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | What is devuan desktop environment in the installer? |
| 08:23.18 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | if XFCE is not selected |
| 08:26.05 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | and what do I do if my computer is not BIOS or UEFI |
| 08:26.15 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | but grub is built into the firmware |
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| 08:30.06 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | nvm |
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| 08:39.55 | openbsdtai123 | hello, is it possible to stay more Unix and BSD than going madness like debian? |
| 08:40.02 | openbsdtai123 | dmesg shall not be lockdown. |
| 08:40.28 | openbsdtai123 | su shall remain with full power. |
| 08:40.32 | openbsdtai123 | and so on. |
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| 08:51.32 | Joril | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: I think that XFCE is installed by default even if it's not specifically selected |
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| 09:16.50 | ham5urg | How do I get the command lvm into initramfs' busybox? I want to boot from LVM but the initramfs can't find the device, so it drop's me into busybox' shell. |
| 09:18.59 | fsmithred | openbsdtai123, 'dpkg-reconfigure iputils-ping' |
| 09:19.29 | fsmithred | echo 'ALWAYS_KEEP_PATH yes' >> /etc/default/su |
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| 09:23.31 | DPA | echo 'sysctl kernel.dmesg_restrict=0' >> /etc/sysctl.d/10-local.conf && sysctl --system |
| 09:24.01 | DPA | Ups, I meant: echo 'kernel.dmesg_restrict = 0' >> /etc/sysctl.d/10-local.conf && sysctl --system |
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| 09:27.01 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | how do I fix random freezeups with beowulf? |
| 09:27.11 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | I'm on a laptop with a samsung SSD |
| 09:27.19 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | over a encrypted LVM |
| 09:27.49 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | I'm copying a file from a usb hard drive to my internal SSD (a tarball) and my system keeps randomly freezing up and the hard disk activity light stays on |
| 09:28.01 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | io elevator is mq_deadline |
| 09:28.11 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | absolute fresh beowulf install |
| 09:28.33 | openbsdtai123 | fsmithred: what is it? To make devuan look more like normal unix. is it possible that devuan cry a bit long debian, and go alone without debian? devuan needs to be an adult OS. Now it is time to fix debian ;) |
| 09:28.35 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | nothing but dwm, mc, elogind, dbus, qterminal, running |
| 09:29.00 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | not seeing anything weird in dmesg |
| 09:29.30 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oh and tor and getty |
| 09:29.35 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | and rsyslogd |
| 09:29.37 | fsmithred | openbsdtai123, no it's not possible for us to separate from debian. Unless maybe you have a few hunderd devs ready to join and help. |
| 09:30.26 | openbsdtai123 | why not? if you stick to look like debian, it looks ugly. |
| 09:30.48 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | what do you mean look like debian openbsdtai123 |
| 09:32.28 | brocashelm | devuan is actually my first time using debian (past a live boot), lolz |
| 09:32.51 | brocashelm | i can see why debian is highly preferred as a base |
| 09:33.13 | fsmithred | yeah, sorry. Not awake yet, so I don't know the difference between dmesg and ping. |
| 09:33.47 | fsmithred | openbsdtai123, there's about a dozen active devuan devs. |
| 09:34.05 | fsmithred | we strive to do as little as possible |
| 09:35.38 | fsmithred | devuan desktop is prettier than debian. Debian has always been butt-ugly. |
| 09:35.59 | brocashelm | especially refracta desktop IMO |
| 09:36.10 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | idk about that |
| 09:36.12 | brocashelm | love the outer space wallpaper |
| 09:36.23 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | other than GNOME3 is absolute hot garbage |
| 09:36.37 | fsmithred | oh, that's a persistent reaction to the spacefun theme |
| 09:36.54 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | so is adwaita |
| 09:37.00 | fsmithred | which you probably missed if you weren't using debian |
| 09:37.22 | brocashelm | yeah, i never used debian, aside from trying out lmde3 very briefly |
| 09:37.39 | fsmithred | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/SpaceFun |
| 09:37.41 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | right now just using dwm on the lappy and fluxbox on the workstation |
| 09:37.44 | brocashelm | but it still looks pretty good to me |
| 09:40.07 | fsmithred | DPA, thanks for that. I was looking for that recently and couldn't find it. |
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| 14:13.44 | openbsdtai123 | I have copied the packages deb onto my /target. How to unpack them --foreign onto /target with a foreign arch? ar x or something? I have a rpi3b and I want to deploy the deb files onto my pendrive x86. |
| 14:26.54 | gnarface | you have to enable multi-arch, start binfmt-support and do something with qemu-i386-static or qemu-x86_64-static |
| 14:27.17 | gnarface | well, that's to use any binaries in them |
| 14:27.37 | gnarface | the packages will probably install normally with "dpkg -i [package name]" as long as you enable multi-arch |
| 14:28.00 | gnarface | but there's no guarantee you'll be able to use anything in them without the binfmt-support and qemu bits |
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| 14:53.56 | DPA | openbsdtai123: If you have a rootfs or debootstrap a rootfs of a foreign architecture, and want to install or execute something in there, just install the qemu-user-static, and you should be able to just chroot into it. |
| 14:53.56 | DPA | Maybe bind mount dev, sys, and tmp. There is no need to do anything with multi-arch in that case. binfmt-support should be set up by qemu-x86_64-static automatically. Copying qemu-*-static to the root to chroot |
| 14:53.56 | DPA | to is no longer necessary since beowulf/buster, I think. qemu-x86_64-static isn't all that stable, though, and seccomp can somtimes cause a lot of trouble. |
| 14:58.20 | gnarface | i had better luck with it in ceres |
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| 16:03.43 | wikan | hi tell mi once again what is text installer in devuan live? |
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| 16:05.06 | gnarface | wikan: refractasnapshot or refractainstaller or something like that, i think |
| 16:05.48 | gnarface | wikan: note that it is not the same text installer as the non-live ones |
| 16:06.16 | wikan | it starts in gui |
| 16:06.50 | gnarface | wikan: really? look for other stuff named refracta* in the same path |
| 16:07.10 | wikan | is it possible to install base only from live? |
| 16:07.18 | wikan | mean nothing else that core system |
| 16:07.26 | gnarface | sure with debootstrap |
| 16:07.37 | gnarface | i don't know refracta tools well enough to know if they can do it too |
| 16:07.42 | wikan | is it easy? |
| 16:07.47 | gnarface | debootstrap? |
| 16:07.51 | wikan | yep |
| 16:07.55 | wikan | i like debian installer |
| 16:08.13 | gnarface | well debootstrap just creates the rootfs |
| 16:08.25 | gnarface | you still have to do some minor setup afterwards like install a kernel and bootloader |
| 16:08.35 | wikan | ok, i will use normal iso |
| 16:08.55 | wikan | please, tell me how to check what network driver live cd is using on my computer |
| 16:09.04 | wikan | because i wanna to provide it on usb |
| 16:09.04 | gnarface | lsmod |
| 16:09.17 | gnarface | the netinstall iso may have it already though |
| 16:09.43 | gnarface | lsmod lists all the currently loaded drivers |
| 16:10.11 | gnarface | lspci lists all the currently loaded pci* devices and lsusb lists all the devices connected to the usb bus |
| 16:10.56 | ham5urg | How can I force update-initramfs to include the lvm-tools? |
| 16:11.17 | gnarface | it doesn't do that automatically when you just run it? |
| 16:13.23 | ham5urg | Neither 'vgscan' nor 'lvm vgscan' is available. Maybe something's broken |
| 16:13.23 | wikan | cant figure out what the network driver is :| |
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| 16:14.16 | gnarface | wikan: well i can tell you for sure it's none of the ones that start with snd_ |
| 16:15.23 | gnarface | wikan: what does this say? lspci|grep net -i |
| 16:16.00 | wikan | i will install from desktop.iso :) |
| 16:16.12 | gnarface | i really recommend the netinstall first |
| 16:16.21 | gnarface | it's enough smaller that even if it doesn't work it's worth a try |
| 16:16.40 | gnarface | unless you have a gigabit network uplink or something, maybe then it doesn't matter |
| 16:17.26 | systemdlete | from my nightly logwatch: 'lightdm: PAM unable to dlopen(pam_systemd.so): /lib/security/pam_systemd.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory: 1 Time(s)' |
| 16:17.53 | systemdlete | Funny, I thought we had totally wiped all traces of systemd... :D |
| 16:18.13 | wikan | i alwayws was using netistall but not for laptops |
| 16:18.19 | wikan | too many probkems |
| 16:18.33 | wikan | mostly drivers |
| 16:18.40 | gnarface | wikan: did you have a problem with the devuan netinstall on laptops, or are you prejudiced against it because the debian one never worked? |
| 16:18.57 | systemdlete | still, somebody is trying to run systemd something or another |
| 16:19.00 | gnarface | wikan: fyi devuan includes the non-free network wifi firmware in the netinstall iso, debian does not |
| 16:19.23 | wikan | oki |
| 16:19.31 | gnarface | systemdlete: what log file are you seeing that in? |
| 16:19.46 | wikan | downloading netinstall |
| 16:20.02 | gnarface | systemdlete: (cannot reproduce here, so my initial guess is something self-inflicted) |
| 16:23.13 | systemdlete | logwatch says it is in log-secure. When I do a recursive grep, though, I don't find it... |
| 16:24.41 | systemdlete | ah. found it |
| 16:24.43 | systemdlete | auth.log |
| 16:25.09 | systemdlete | was grepping the string given in the watchlog. had to separate it out a bit... |
| 16:25.38 | systemdlete | gnarface: "self-inflicted?" How? I only install software from the repos. |
| 16:26.12 | systemdlete | at least, I think so... |
| 16:27.19 | systemdlete | brave browser and chrome browser are the only 2 add-ons I have on that system. |
| 16:27.51 | systemdlete | since this is (apparently) coming from lightdm, it would be too early for either browser to be running yet. |
| 16:28.53 | systemdlete | oh, look, gnarface: |
| 16:28.58 | wikan | running |
| 16:29.31 | systemdlete | there is also a complaint just before that one, saying that pam is trying to load a "faulty" module, pam_systemd.so |
| 16:29.42 | systemdlete | so PAM is the culprit then. |
| 16:30.26 | systemdlete | systemd is God. It is everywhere, even if we can't see it. And I can't in this case. |
| 16:30.56 | wikan | (-.-)..zzZZZZ |
| 16:31.38 | MinceR | :> |
| 16:31.55 | wikan | (o.-) |
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| 16:32.05 | gnarface | systemdlete: stand by, checking a machine with lightdm |
| 16:32.12 | systemdlete | thanks |
| 16:33.19 | wikan | well I can choose wifi network but connection doesn't work |
| 16:33.29 | wikan | standard |
| 16:33.45 | gnarface | systemdlete: confirmed, sorry. it is not self-inflicted |
| 16:34.03 | systemdlete | so you get the message also? |
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| 16:34.16 | wikan | downloading desktop iso |
| 16:34.25 | gnarface | systemdlete: yea it's showing on a machine that has lightdm installed. i wouldn't sweat it though unless you actually have a /lib/security/ directory. |
| 16:34.51 | fsmithred | do your power buttons work in lightdm? |
| 16:34.53 | gnarface | systemdlete: it seems to be looking for a some or another systemd pam module but not actually finding it, and as far as i can tell this error is harmless |
| 16:34.57 | gnarface | fsmithred: no, they don't |
| 16:35.09 | fsmithred | ok |
| 16:35.14 | fsmithred | Add the following line to /etc/pam.d/lightdm-greeter |
| 16:35.14 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:35.21 | gnarface | fsmithred: they're dead to logged-out users (which is probably for the best anyway, i assumed the fact the menu is still there is merely an omission) |
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| 16:35.48 | gnarface | thanks fsmithred |
| 16:35.51 | systemdlete | fsmithred: Shouldnt that be done, by default, in shipped packages? |
| 16:36.12 | insecure | hi guys, devuan is great work, keep it up. just here to show my support. |
| 16:36.15 | gnarface | systemdlete: yes, but beggars can't be choosers |
| 16:36.23 | fsmithred | I thought it was fixed in ceres |
| 16:36.33 | fsmithred | here's the bug report: https://bugs.debian.org/932047 |
| 16:36.39 | systemdlete | ceres? I am not running ceres |
| 16:36.47 | gnarface | fsmithred: i can't verify on ceres, my ceres box doesn't have graphical login |
| 16:36.54 | fsmithred | I know it's not fixed in beowulf |
| 16:37.02 | gnarface | fsmithred: am i supposed to append that line btw, or replace this one with it? session optional pam_systemd.so |
| 16:37.14 | systemdlete | fsmithred, gnarface: There is a directory /lib/systemd, which I don't expect on a system where there is no systemd installed/running. |
| 16:37.20 | fsmithred | not sure. I just copied that from the release notes |
| 16:37.31 | gnarface | fsmithred: going with replace then |
| 16:37.31 | brocashelm | ceres is ridiculously stable for me, wtf |
| 16:37.38 | fsmithred | isn't that where systemd service files go? |
| 16:37.54 | systemdlete | I have no idea. Besides, that misses the point. |
| 16:38.10 | fsmithred | yeah it does |
| 16:38.22 | fsmithred | my opinion: we absolutely should not remove that stuff. |
| 16:38.23 | gnarface | brocashelm: it's pretty stable unless you use nvidia hardware, then they break it every time World of Warcraft releases a major version |
| 16:38.43 | systemdlete | why fsmithred? |
| 16:38.44 | brocashelm | gnarface: then thank goodness i don't use nvidia products, lol |
| 16:38.48 | fsmithred | which is the same way I feel about package maintainers who remove init scripts. |
| 16:39.01 | fsmithred | don't fucking remove init scripts |
| 16:39.05 | fsmithred | or service files |
| 16:39.13 | fsmithred | let the package work both ways |
| 16:39.26 | systemdlete | shouldn't all of those be packaged with their respective software? |
| 16:39.38 | fsmithred | what do you mean? |
| 16:39.43 | gnarface | fsmithred: is this fix gonna also fix the power/shutdown/reboot menu on lightdm for logged-out users? |
| 16:39.53 | fsmithred | gnarface, I think so |
| 16:40.08 | systemdlete | so, e.g., if a user installs packge xyz, then the init script(s) that go with xyz get installed also. |
| 16:40.23 | fsmithred | I don't think I've ever noticed a difference in power buttons between logged in and not logged in |
| 16:40.24 | systemdlete | And,here, I am assuming the distro's packagers know to do this. |
| 16:40.39 | fsmithred | systemdlete, yes as long as the init script hasn't been removed from that package |
| 16:40.56 | systemdlete | ? |
| 16:41.00 | fsmithred | no, they can and do remove init scripts |
| 16:41.10 | fsmithred | sometimes for no good reason |
| 16:41.24 | fsmithred | we just had to fork a couple more packages for that reason |
| 16:41.36 | systemdlete | but... they should not be removing init scripts for service managers that are packaged for that distro. |
| 16:41.49 | gnarface | removing rc.local because "nobody is using this anymore, right?" says the guy who's been part of the project for 2 days right before he removes it without actually waiting for any responses |
| 16:41.55 | gnarface | that really pissed me off |
| 16:41.59 | fsmithred | they are not absolutely prohibited from doing so |
| 16:42.19 | fsmithred | see the results of the last GR |
| 16:42.20 | systemdlete | the packaging tools could/should enforce this, for any given distro |
| 16:43.52 | systemdlete | (I assume devuan uses some sort of packaging automata) |
| 16:44.20 | fsmithred | our git is connected to the package build system |
| 16:44.46 | fsmithred | we only package a small percentage of the packages in the repo |
| 16:45.05 | fsmithred | couple hundred, and half of those are just task-$language |
| 16:45.16 | systemdlete | sorry, I keep forgetting you have to do all this yourselves. |
| 16:45.23 | fsmithred | lol |
| 16:45.33 | fsmithred | there'a around a dozen active devs |
| 16:45.37 | systemdlete | yeah |
| 16:45.45 | systemdlete | this is so frustrating. |
| 16:45.46 | fsmithred | debian has hundreds or maybe thousands |
| 16:46.22 | fsmithred | if you want everything packaged to your needs, you should run something like gentoo |
| 16:46.51 | gnarface | heh, they threw multiarch overboard unfortunately |
| 16:46.52 | fsmithred | (I'm not trying to chase you away) |
| 16:46.57 | systemdlete | if you tell people what they have been brainwashed to believe, you get lots of friends |
| 16:47.30 | systemdlete | actually, fsmithred, I'm anxiously awaiting adelie linux. |
| 16:48.04 | gnarface | fsmithred: login screen power button menu works now! hooraaay! |
| 16:48.48 | gnarface | fsmithred: my users would have thanked you if they remembered being mad it wasn't working |
| 16:49.25 | fsmithred | lol |
| 16:49.37 | brocashelm | lol |
| 16:49.45 | fsmithred | that's still less of a pain than waiting for windows update when you're trying to shut down |
| 16:51.14 | fsmithred | We did fork lightdm and it's in chimaera: 1.26.0-7+devuan1 |
| 16:52.31 | *** join/#devuan phogg (~phogg@static-108-51-94-2.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 16:59.09 | fsmithred | afk |
| 17:01.18 | *** join/#devuan conifer (~conifer@gateway/tor-sasl/conifer) |
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| 17:18.23 | zatumil | thank you, its good to have lightdm in devuan |
| 17:23.51 | systemdlete | is testing the suggested change |
| 17:29.46 | systemdlete | fail |
| 17:30.04 | systemdlete | sorry fsmithred. I tried it a couple times, but that message still shows |
| 17:30.16 | systemdlete | (in the auth.log) |
| 17:30.31 | *** join/#devuan epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) |
| 17:30.55 | gnarface | systemdlete: did you actually reboot? |
| 17:30.56 | systemdlete | it's pretty harmless I guess, though I wonder how secure the login process is if PAM relies on systemd to do its authorization work |
| 17:31.00 | systemdlete | yes! |
| 17:31.14 | gnarface | systemdlete: did you append that line or replace the systemd one with it? |
| 17:31.19 | systemdlete | I can try it once more |
| 17:31.53 | gnarface | systemdlete: make sure to replace the pam_systemd.so line with the pam_elogind.so one, not just append it |
| 17:32.54 | systemdlete | wrong file! |
| 17:32.59 | systemdlete | my bad. |
| 17:33.32 | gnarface | aah |
| 17:33.36 | gnarface | yea that'll do it |
| 17:34.10 | systemdlete | but... |
| 17:34.21 | *** join/#devuan bpmedley (~bpm@c-98-215-85-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:34.23 | systemdlete | that line is ALREADY in the (correct) file |
| 17:34.32 | systemdlete | ??? |
| 17:34.36 | gnarface | systemdlete: you're skimming i think. that's what i thought at first |
| 17:34.51 | systemdlete | yes. I admit it. I skimmed. |
| 17:35.15 | systemdlete | but now the issue is that I don't need to add that line fsmithred suggested; it is already in there and has been |
| 17:35.34 | systemdlete | and I still see the message in the auth.log file |
| 17:35.35 | gnarface | systemdlete: are you sure? because it probably is not elogind |
| 17:36.02 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:36.07 | gnarface | read this line letter for letter^ |
| 17:36.19 | gnarface | it's not the same as this one v |
| 17:36.27 | systemdlete | yeah, I see what you mean. I didn't have both in front of me simultaneousy |
| 17:36.30 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:36.48 | systemdlete | ok, so here goes replace |
| 17:36.57 | systemdlete | goes back, keeping both eyes open this time |
| 17:37.23 | gnarface | you were still skimming. you gotta bust that habit to work with Linux well. (i was a product of the US school system too, so i know what they did to you) |
| 17:38.55 | systemdlete | my brain is broken. |
| 17:39.20 | systemdlete | well, now the error message is still there, but it says it is pam_elogin.so it can't load |
| 17:39.36 | gnarface | hmmm, i wonder if you're missing other packages. it worked fine for me... |
| 17:39.37 | systemdlete | I might not have PAM fully configured |
| 17:39.50 | systemdlete | at least, I never did anything in that regard. |
| 17:40.12 | systemdlete | and, sorry. I know I need to look at things more carefully. |
| 17:40.16 | gnarface | $ dpkg -S pam_elogind.so |
| 17:40.17 | gnarface | libpam-elogind:amd64: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_elogind.so |
| 17:40.23 | gnarface | is this package present? |
| 17:41.09 | gnarface | the "skimming" brain damage can be repaired with patience and practice. Linux is really good for this, luckily. |
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| 17:42.24 | gnarface | losing the ability to think quick in a pinch is also potentially terminal, but i don't think that is something you need to worry about |
| 17:42.38 | gnarface | what you need to do is learn how to turn that off |
| 17:42.53 | bozonius3 | you are right, of course. |
| 17:43.10 | bozonius3 | dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern *pam_elogind.so* |
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| 17:43.27 | gnarface | bozonius3: yea you need libpam-elogind then too |
| 17:43.38 | gnarface | systemdlete: ^ you too |
| 17:43.58 | gnarface | and anything else it wants to drag in probably |
| 17:44.31 | gnarface | oh, you two are the same person |
| 17:44.34 | gnarface | sorry |
| 17:44.36 | gnarface | heh |
| 17:44.45 | gnarface | isn't always paying enough attention, either |
| 17:45.12 | bozonius3 | yeah, I opened a hexchat in the ascii vm to make it easier. But now I have to log out to test this, so... |
| 17:45.22 | bozonius3 | does not always think AHEAD, either. |
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| 17:55.29 | systemdlete | worked. Thanks |
| 17:55.44 | gnarface | hooray! |
| 17:55.55 | systemdlete | one less distraction in the future. |
| 17:56.06 | gnarface | keep backups of that /etc directory |
| 17:56.19 | systemdlete | always. On all of my hosts and VMs |
| 17:56.34 | systemdlete | (except for my testbox and test VMs) |
| 17:57.00 | systemdlete | on occasion I make an ad-hoc backup of development work on some test system, but it's rare. |
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| 17:58.24 | systemdlete | is this corrected on beowulf? |
| 17:58.34 | systemdlete | or just ceres? |
| 17:58.57 | ankokukishi | hello everyone i have a question. i installed refracta onto a laptop but i need japanese support for it. When i installed refracta i set everything to japanese but the proper characters dont show up and no matter what i do in terminal, i cant tell what they want me to do becasue the characters dont show up properly. |
| 17:59.57 | ankokukishi | i found some resources in japanese but even when i try to execute the commands, it says something about sudoers (even though i used sudo in the command) but when i remove it, it cant open a dpkg |
| 18:01.32 | gnarface | systemdlete: fsmithred mentioned it seems to be fixed in chimera already |
| 18:02.00 | systemdlete | yes, I did see that (he said ceres, actually) |
| 18:02.09 | systemdlete | but not beowulf then |
| 18:02.13 | systemdlete | ok |
| 18:02.31 | gnarface | systemdlete: oh what he said was lightdm was forked as of chimera |
| 18:02.32 | systemdlete | Maybe I'll be skipping beowulf and go straight to chimera |
| 18:02.52 | systemdlete | less work to do |
| 18:03.01 | systemdlete | ascii has been stable enough for me |
| 18:03.22 | systemdlete | unless there is some really compelling reason to upgrade to beowulf |
| 18:03.30 | systemdlete | (security, stability, etc) |
| 18:03.54 | gnarface | ankokukishi: does "locale" output the right charmap settings? if so, then you're probably just missing fonts. (otherwise, install the "locales" package then run "dpkg-reconfigure locales") |
| 18:04.14 | *** part/#devuan james1138 (~James1138@71.36.13.61) |
| 18:04.45 | gnarface | systemdlete: if this was all that's actually wrong with beowoulf for you i'd wait on upgrading to chimera |
| 18:04.57 | ankokukishi | yeah i think i was missing fonts |
| 18:05.16 | ankokukishi | im seeing if beowolf works better for this and if not ill try refracta agaibn |
| 18:05.37 | systemdlete | gnarface: this wasn't really that earth-shaking either. Like I said, ascii has been very solid and reliable for me so far. |
| 18:05.48 | systemdlete | I deeply appreciate the work all of you have been doing. |
| 18:05.59 | systemdlete | I should probably add you guys in my patreon |
| 18:06.27 | ankokukishi | i appreciate it too, i wanna have a backup plan in case mint devs decide to cuck to canonical |
| 18:06.34 | *** join/#devuan ericnoan (~en@li1489-130.members.linode.com) |
| 18:06.36 | *** join/#devuan ericnoan (~en@unaffiliated/ericnoan) |
| 18:06.37 | ankokukishi | i like how low spec and simple devuan is |
| 18:08.55 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~akuli@mobile-access-b04827-26.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:11.05 | wikan | love firefox |
| 18:11.15 | wikan | was downloading devuan 3 times |
| 18:11.22 | wikan | 90% and error 3 times |
| 18:11.43 | gnarface | ankokukishi: i got some regexp magic for you: apt-cache search '^ttf-|^x?fonts-' |
| 18:11.54 | wikan | but why to print message "disk full" :| |
| 18:12.04 | gnarface | ankokukishi: (i don't know if that'll show all of them but i think it'll at least show most of them) |
| 18:13.18 | ankokukishi | that should at least get me far enough to dl a different font set |
| 18:14.21 | ankokukishi | thanks for your help, ill try again with refracta and see what happens |
| 18:14.37 | *** join/#devuan epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) |
| 18:15.39 | gnarface | wikan: you could try something like this: wget -O /dev/yourusbdrive https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64-netinstall.iso |
| 18:16.33 | gnarface | wikan: that way it doesnt' need any harddrive space |
| 18:17.14 | fsmithred | ankokukishi, there's a thread on the old refracta forum about japanese locales |
| 18:17.18 | fsmithred | I'll try to find it |
| 18:17.24 | ankokukishi | thanks |
| 18:19.41 | systemdlete | paypal only. :( |
| 18:19.52 | wikan | gnarface: lol nice |
| 18:20.07 | wikan | cleaned disk and downloading via torrent |
| 18:33.02 | ankokukishi | well this isnt going well :( |
| 18:35.28 | ankokukishi | maybe installing in english then switching to japanese might be a better idea? im at a loss when it wont even show the japanese for me to understand what the issue is :/ |
| 18:37.21 | fsmithred | https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/refracta/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=645&p=6121&hilit=japanese#p6121 |
| 18:37.26 | fsmithred | ankokukishi, ^^^ |
| 18:37.33 | fsmithred | see the first post on that page |
| 18:38.25 | fsmithred | and yes, I think you should install in english and then switch. |
| 18:38.38 | ankokukishi | thanks |
| 18:38.56 | ankokukishi | also, when i input sudo the only thing i can read is sudoers |
| 18:39.02 | ankokukishi | something about sudoers |
| 18:39.08 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 18:39.15 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.224.20) |
| 18:39.18 | fsmithred | running a live session, or after install? |
| 18:39.20 | gnarface | nobody is enabled in sudoers by default? |
| 18:39.22 | ankokukishi | after install |
| 18:39.23 | gnarface | i think? |
| 18:39.36 | fsmithred | right, nobody enabled unless you chose that during the install |
| 18:39.48 | fsmithred | in live session, user has sudo nopasswd for everything |
| 18:39.59 | *** part/#devuan ibanja (~ibanja@37.120.215.100) |
| 18:40.29 | fsmithred | one of the choices is sudo for shutdown/reboot only |
| 18:40.45 | ankokukishi | yeah i dunno because the text doesnt show up so i cnat run apt update |
| 18:40.47 | gnarface | for a default install i think you have to add yourself to the sudo group manually, right? |
| 18:40.51 | fsmithred | I've thought about expanding that so that you could choose groups of commands to enable sudo |
| 18:41.01 | fsmithred | just to drive home the idea that sudo is not for everything |
| 18:41.23 | fsmithred | the live installer gives you four choices regarding root/sudo |
| 18:41.37 | ankokukishi | i didnt check any of them |
| 18:41.38 | fsmithred | the debian-installer gives you two: root account or sudo |
| 18:41.50 | fsmithred | you should have a root account |
| 18:42.03 | ankokukishi | yeah i made one and i made a password for it |
| 18:42.29 | fsmithred | if you want sudo, add your user to sudo group or make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ that sets users/commands or whatever |
| 18:42.30 | ankokukishi | maybe i screwed up during the install process? |
| 18:42.50 | fsmithred | well, if you wanted sudo, you should have checked the appropriate box |
| 18:43.42 | ankokukishi | i only have exp with mint, thats why im having issues i think |
| 18:44.00 | ankokukishi | try installing again |
| 18:44.07 | fsmithred | there are always some annoying differences when you switch distros |
| 18:44.16 | fsmithred | why install again? |
| 18:44.22 | fsmithred | just for sudo? |
| 18:44.34 | ankokukishi | yeah because i cant get into anything |
| 18:44.39 | ankokukishi | cant update, nothing |
| 18:44.43 | fsmithred | su |
| 18:44.51 | fsmithred | then give root password |
| 18:44.56 | ankokukishi | oh |
| 18:44.56 | fsmithred | and you should be able to do anything |
| 18:45.07 | debdog | ("su -") |
| 18:45.17 | fsmithred | not necessary - this is refracta |
| 18:45.20 | debdog | kk |
| 18:45.20 | fsmithred | I already fixed it |
| 18:45.28 | debdog | hehe, good! |
| 18:45.34 | fsmithred | and a few other annoyances |
| 18:45.36 | ankokukishi | oh okay lol |
| 18:46.06 | fsmithred | and the prompt even turns red when you become root so you don't forget you have a gun in your hand |
| 18:46.09 | ankokukishi | i forgot you can set a root password |
| 18:46.38 | ankokukishi | im a super noob at linux still, only like 2 months in |
| 18:46.49 | fsmithred | oh, wow |
| 18:47.08 | fsmithred | you'll notice that less stuff is done for you in devuan than in mint or ubuntu |
| 18:47.15 | ankokukishi | yeah it is |
| 18:47.16 | ankokukishi | lol |
| 18:47.42 | ankokukishi | grr its still giving me the same error |
| 18:47.45 | fsmithred | at first that's a pain, but eventually you may like the idea that whatever is not already set up the way you don't want it |
| 18:48.09 | fsmithred | what error? |
| 18:48.12 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.224.20) |
| 18:48.15 | ankokukishi | that sudoers thing |
| 18:48.21 | fsmithred | log out an in again |
| 18:48.35 | fsmithred | for it to take effect (assuming you just added yourself to sudo group) |
| 18:49.02 | fsmithred | did you do that? |
| 18:49.07 | ankokukishi | should be sudo su (password) |
| 18:49.10 | fsmithred | or are you trying to use sudo in a root terminal? |
| 18:49.14 | fsmithred | lol |
| 18:49.14 | fsmithred | no |
| 18:49.21 | fsmithred | su (password) |
| 18:49.23 | fsmithred | then... |
| 18:49.25 | fsmithred | command |
| 18:49.28 | fsmithred | without sudo |
| 18:49.37 | ankokukishi | ah okay |
| 18:49.40 | ankokukishi | my bad lol |
| 18:49.47 | fsmithred | you'll get the hang of it |
| 18:50.34 | fsmithred | I can't remember my first two months with linux |
| 18:50.42 | wikan | what "unable to resume no such file" means? transmission |
| 18:50.58 | wikan | this error stops downloading every few minutes but i can resume |
| 18:50.58 | *** join/#devuan kreyren_ (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) |
| 18:51.01 | fsmithred | wikan, probably means you moved the files |
| 18:51.23 | fsmithred | nm, that sounds weird |
| 18:51.28 | wikan | i did do anything |
| 18:51.53 | wikan | it is annoying |
| 18:52.28 | ankokukishi | i couldnt figure it out |
| 18:52.32 | fsmithred | are you trying to get a devuan iso? |
| 18:52.33 | ankokukishi | i tried everything you said |
| 18:52.55 | fsmithred | ankokukishi, what are you trying to do? |
| 18:52.57 | ankokukishi | i need a break before i break something lol |
| 18:53.28 | ankokukishi | i was still trying to apt update but it wouldnt recognize the password, even after logging out and back in again |
| 18:53.49 | fsmithred | um, did you change any passwords during the install? |
| 18:53.49 | ankokukishi | so i think i might need to reinstall and try it in english, then set it to japanese after that |
| 18:54.04 | ankokukishi | no nothing, i kept my passwords the same |
| 18:54.05 | fsmithred | what language did you set at boot? |
| 18:54.09 | ankokukishi | japanese |
| 18:54.15 | ankokukishi | which is why it didnt recognize the fonts |
| 18:54.16 | fsmithred | oh |
| 18:54.24 | fsmithred | you are in unknown territory |
| 18:54.30 | ankokukishi | yeah lol |
| 18:54.41 | fsmithred | take a break then spend the ten minutes to reinstall |
| 18:54.53 | ankokukishi | i found a couple pages in japanese then tried what they said but that didnt work |
| 18:55.10 | fsmithred | I need lunch. I'll be back in a few minutes. |
| 18:55.22 | ankokukishi | im thinking of trying regular devuan and not refracta. |
| 18:55.30 | ankokukishi | okay have a good lunch, its almost 4am here lol |
| 18:56.09 | fsmithred | yeah, if you do a netinstall and choose japanese, it should all work |
| 19:00.15 | ankokukishi | should i use this method? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HRpkjzJUGY |
| 19:03.32 | *** join/#devuan vostro (~vernon@rrcs-72-43-221-6.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:06.31 | ankokukishi | ah i see what happened, i just watched a couple videos and i didnt give root access to my user account. bah |
| 19:14.32 | ankokukishi | well 4:15am i need to probably get some sleep, ill try again later and see if i cant figure this thing out lol thanks for all the help |
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| 19:55.26 | wikan | can configure wifi in installer :| |
| 19:55.33 | wikan | i can see networks but cant connect |
| 19:58.29 | gnarface | wikan: could be a bug. do you have a wired ethernet to complete the install with so and get updates? |
| 19:58.43 | gnarface | s/ so // |
| 19:58.51 | wikan | yes but i don't have this type of plug |
| 19:59.05 | wikan | i will try tplink usb card |
| 19:59.06 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 19:59.18 | wikan | but i think it is wpa problem |
| 19:59.40 | gnarface | could be... some devices may need the beowulf-backports kernel |
| 20:00.55 | wikan | tplink works |
| 20:01.15 | gnarface | that's wired or wireless? |
| 20:01.24 | wikan | wireless |
| 20:01.59 | gnarface | alright. i would complete the install with it, do a full "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" and then if the other wifi device still doesn't work, see if installing the beowulf-backports kernel fixes it |
| 20:02.00 | wikan | installer probable choosed wrong driver |
| 20:02.18 | gnarface | that's another thing you could easily override from a completed install |
| 20:02.24 | wikan | oki ;) |
| 20:03.20 | gnarface | there might be some non-free firmware for the wifi device, and the package for that SHOULD be installed already, but either way, if you get the beowulf-backports kernel make sure to get that firmware package from beowulf-backports too |
| 20:03.59 | wikan | will ask for help in about 30 minutes ;) |
| 20:04.12 | gnarface | ok |
| 20:06.54 | wikan | i am installing uefi first time |
| 20:08.54 | gnarface | there's no guarantee that wifi device will ever work, but we'll do our best :) |
| 20:08.59 | gnarface | it's good you have a spare |
| 20:09.30 | gnarface | partial functionality is promising though - usually they don't work because the manufacturer refuses to supply the firmware |
| 20:09.31 | wikan | not wifi |
| 20:09.36 | wikan | UEFI :) |
| 20:09.48 | gnarface | sorry to be clear, my statement was irrespective of the UEFI part |
| 20:09.59 | gnarface | but good luck |
| 20:10.18 | fsmithred | my thoughts exactly |
| 20:10.26 | wikan | as i remember |
| 20:10.35 | wikan | wifi has problems even in debian |
| 20:10.40 | wikan | but it works from wicd |
| 20:10.53 | gnarface | if you got it working in debian then it should work in devuan too |
| 20:11.01 | wikan | devuan-live works from wicd |
| 20:11.18 | fsmithred | oh, with that hardware? |
| 20:11.21 | gnarface | fsmithred: does the live image use the same kernel? |
| 20:11.22 | wikan | yeap |
| 20:11.36 | fsmithred | gnarface, yes it uses the stock kernel |
| 20:11.46 | fsmithred | not the installer kernel |
| 20:11.48 | wikan | debian didnt connect from installer |
| 20:11.57 | wikan | but wicd connects me to net ;) |
| 20:12.07 | gnarface | wikan: it may just work after you complete the install then |
| 20:12.10 | wikan | so it is some but in installer |
| 20:12.12 | fsmithred | debian does not include non-free firmware on the official media |
| 20:12.23 | wikan | maybe |
| 20:12.29 | fsmithred | devuan-live has most wireless firmware installed |
| 20:12.46 | fsmithred | not a few of the broadcoms - you have to do those yourself |
| 20:12.51 | wikan | wtf |
| 20:13.09 | fsmithred | they have a fucked up license on some of them |
| 20:13.18 | wikan | system is installing but i didnt chosose anything |
| 20:13.22 | fsmithred | i.e. I get to pay their legal expenses if you sue them |
| 20:13.24 | wikan | suspicious |
| 20:13.59 | fsmithred | what do you mean about system is installing? |
| 20:14.02 | gnarface | wikan: you mean you checked no boxes at tasksel? that's normal behavior. you'll get a base install. |
| 20:14.07 | fsmithred | aren't you running the installer? |
| 20:14.22 | wikan | i did see packages window yet |
| 20:14.30 | wikan | now it is downloading files |
| 20:14.40 | gnarface | wikan: well the netinstall image does download some stuff up front i think... |
| 20:14.46 | gnarface | wikan: what boot menu entry did you select? |
| 20:14.47 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:15.01 | wikan | install |
| 20:15.04 | gnarface | wikan: i recommend expert text mode |
| 20:15.14 | gnarface | wikan: not sure exactly where it is in the menus these days |
| 20:15.22 | wikan | fucking usless apparmor |
| 20:15.31 | wikan | why is this thit installing |
| 20:16.22 | gnarface | wikan: the kernel package seems to require it |
| 20:16.29 | wikan | i did installed devuan before but it wasnt THIS installation process |
| 20:16.54 | wikan | i did install python before |
| 20:16.58 | wikan | now it is installing by self |
| 20:17.10 | gnarface | wikan: which image did you boot exactly? |
| 20:17.38 | gnarface | wikan: you should see an installer that looks fundamentally identical to the debian one |
| 20:17.39 | wikan | desktop. selected wifi, configured disk, press format and it is installing |
| 20:18.08 | fsmithred | you can remove apparmor |
| 20:18.12 | gnarface | wikan: unless it was in the "installer-iso" directory i think you got the wrong one |
| 20:18.14 | wikan | it doesnt ask me what software i want |
| 20:18.24 | gnarface | wikan: use one of these: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/ |
| 20:18.39 | wikan | desktop from installer-iso |
| 20:18.47 | fsmithred | it will ask |
| 20:18.52 | fsmithred | takes some time to get there |
| 20:19.07 | wikan | ok asked me now |
| 20:19.14 | wikan | after installing a lot of shit |
| 20:19.14 | fsmithred | If you care about what packages get installed, then I suggest you choose none |
| 20:19.16 | gnarface | wikan: actually, scratch that. specifically use the netinstall one then so i know you're using something i've seen |
| 20:19.20 | fsmithred | or just standard system utils |
| 20:19.38 | gnarface | wikan: or nevermind, if you're happy with that. i just realized "desktop" probably implies a lot of pre-selected stuff you may not want. |
| 20:19.41 | fsmithred | gnarface, as long as he selects a mirror, it will be a netinstall |
| 20:19.54 | wikan | well i have tried netinstall and because net did not work i switched to desktop |
| 20:20.06 | wikan | now i know i would check usb card |
| 20:20.07 | fsmithred | but you have a network connection now? |
| 20:20.17 | gnarface | wikan: well, it wasn't obvious how, but i could have helped you do the same thing with the netinstall one |
| 20:20.49 | wikan | well it is fine |
| 20:21.01 | wikan | thanks |
| 20:21.09 | gnarface | wikan: anyway, you're sorted now. you can always "apt-get purge" any packages you don't want |
| 20:21.21 | wikan | i know ;) |
| 20:21.26 | systemdlete | e1000 0000:00:03.0 eth0: Reset adapter |
| 20:21.33 | systemdlete | in a VM |
| 20:21.52 | systemdlete | seems harmless, though it might be slowing things down a bit, idk |
| 20:22.33 | systemdlete | one person indicated that switching to a non-Intel "adapter" helped. |
| 20:22.44 | wikan | when i have seen this error before it was one of last days of my network card life |
| 20:22.55 | systemdlete | problem is, that is the fastest virtual adapter, afaik |
| 20:23.07 | systemdlete | wikan: It's a VM, not real hardware |
| 20:23.18 | wikan | it is one of last days of your vm :P |
| 20:23.40 | systemdlete | I doubt it. This VM has been working for over a year without any major issues. |
| 20:24.07 | *** join/#devuan icmpcat (~irssi@unaffiliated/mentoc) |
| 20:27.34 | systemdlete | Funniest part is that this goes back 5-6 years or so. I'm wondering if this is due to a recent vbox change. |
| 20:31.54 | wikan | switch to lxc ;) |
| 20:34.03 | *** join/#devuan ankokukishi (~mrtrinita@softbank126048217146.bbtec.net) |
| 20:34.50 | wikan | what do you suggest for drawing icons on minial desktop? |
| 20:36.06 | gnarface | does the software have to be minimal, or just the desktop view? |
| 20:36.08 | systemdlete | wikan: lxc is not the same as vbox |
| 20:36.30 | systemdlete | lxc requires the guest to be pretty much the same kernel and utils as the host, doesn't it? |
| 20:38.20 | gnarface | systemdlete: i think guests and hosts all share a kernel, not sure about any constraints on the utils |
| 20:38.44 | gnarface | systemdlete: (i don't know much about it, but i use linux-vservers which is similar) |
| 20:39.04 | systemdlete | well, the utils may not work with a different kernel. They might be hardcoded to certain schema which could change from kernel version to the next |
| 20:39.23 | systemdlete | linux-vservers: Not known about that |
| 20:39.46 | ankokukishi | hi again guys. I got my refracta to read japanese but the input method editor hasnt appeared on my panel. Should i restart/log off then log back in and it should work? |
| 20:39.53 | gnarface | systemdlete: linux-vservers is allergic to both systemd and elogind, so lxc could have similar constraints, i just don't know |
| 20:40.27 | gnarface | systemdlete: but other than that you could shoehorn any distro into a guest that can work with the same kernel version as the host |
| 20:40.40 | gnarface | systemdlete: (which for headless servers anyway is usually a lot more forgiving of a range) |
| 20:40.49 | ankokukishi | yeah logging off fixed it lol |
| 20:41.04 | gnarface | ankokukishi: hooraay! |
| 20:41.25 | systemdlete | that's fine if you are, say, an ISP or something. But let's say you provide me with your own fancy driver to fix some bug I reported and you say "here, try this" |
| 20:41.41 | brocashelm | nice |
| 20:41.41 | systemdlete | Now, I trust you, but I'd still like to try it someplace besides my host. |
| 20:41.59 | gnarface | systemdlete: heh, yea it can't really do that |
| 20:42.17 | gnarface | systemdlete: the term i heard was "paravirtualization" |
| 20:42.31 | gnarface | systemdlete: what you want is actual virtualization (or just spare hardware) |
| 20:42.33 | systemdlete | lxc is probably ideal for environments like ISPs |
| 20:42.34 | ankokukishi | well at least the problem was easy enough to solve, give user sudo access LOL |
| 20:42.42 | brocashelm | lol |
| 20:43.04 | gnarface | systemdlete: the approach of paravirtualization is that it is a lot faster without specialized hardware |
| 20:43.11 | systemdlete | in vbox-speak and in xen-speak, "paravirtualization" mean different things |
| 20:43.14 | gnarface | systemdlete: the benefit of the approach, i mean to say |
| 20:43.20 | brocashelm | btw we also have an off-topic channel: #devuan-offtopic |
| 20:43.30 | gnarface | sorry yes, i've drifted off topic my bad |
| 20:43.30 | systemdlete | yeah yeah |
| 20:43.34 | ankokukishi | lol |
| 20:43.35 | systemdlete | my bad too |
| 20:46.50 | wikan | devuan (*x*) |
| 20:48.08 | fsmithred | ankokukishi, you got japanese working? |
| 20:50.16 | ankokukishi | yeah i did, i had to check the box to make the user account have root access |
| 20:50.27 | ankokukishi | once i did that all the commands worked |
| 20:50.47 | fsmithred | cool. |
| 20:51.23 | fsmithred | what's the input method editor? |
| 20:51.45 | ankokukishi | its the the thing that allows you to type in non-romanized languages |
| 20:51.54 | fsmithred | is it ibus? |
| 20:52.11 | ankokukishi | its mozc |
| 20:52.15 | ankokukishi | on linux |
| 20:53.23 | ankokukishi | on windows its "windows input method editor" |
| 20:53.33 | ankokukishi | but we dont care about that |
| 20:53.33 | ankokukishi | lol |
| 20:55.03 | ankokukishi | now i just need to add a couple more programs and then my laptop will be fully refracta operational |
| 20:55.12 | brocashelm | nice |
| 20:55.23 | *** join/#devuan o01eg (~o01eg@2a02:2698:82b:a5d:5395:5902:b1ae:dc8a) |
| 20:55.31 | brocashelm | all my machines are on refracta |
| 20:55.41 | brocashelm | no dual booting bs either |
| 20:56.06 | ankokukishi | im gonna keep mint on this pc for awhile longer, then possibly switch it over later |
| 20:56.16 | ankokukishi | i need to play with refracta more |
| 20:56.31 | brocashelm | yeah, no rush |
| 20:56.37 | brocashelm | have to get a feel for it first |
| 20:56.39 | ankokukishi | i like having two different distros though |
| 20:56.49 | ankokukishi | so i can expand my linux horizons |
| 20:56.57 | brocashelm | you can always just fire up virtualbox and try different distros without compromising your drives |
| 20:57.03 | ankokukishi | yeah i know |
| 20:57.44 | ankokukishi | id probably do that on this pc |
| 20:58.14 | ankokukishi | oh shit i forgot to install powertop LOL |
| 20:58.18 | ankokukishi | oh well whatever |
| 20:59.35 | ankokukishi | nothing i cant do later |
| 21:03.14 | vostro | wikan: Did you get your wifi situation sorted? |
| 21:03.17 | brocashelm | and the refracta tools allow you to make your own live usb installer, so you can copy your settings instantly between machines |
| 21:03.32 | ankokukishi | wow |
| 21:04.19 | wikan | installing :) |
| 21:04.39 | *** join/#devuan KnoP (~KnoP@p50906f07.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:04.42 | vostro | Wikan: |
| 21:05.02 | vostro | wikan: So, you installed without wifi working? |
| 21:05.25 | wikan | i will tell you in 10 minutes when i reboot |
| 21:05.30 | wikan | i use usb wifi now |
| 21:05.40 | wikan | donwloading pkgs |
| 21:05.42 | wikan | cant stop |
| 21:06.47 | vostro | wikan IC. If you installed without wifi working, you may wind up with connman isntalled which could interfere with network manager or wicd |
| 21:07.11 | fsmithred | connman?? |
| 21:07.23 | fsmithred | wicd is the default for most of the desktops |
| 21:07.41 | vostro | connection manager |
| 21:07.53 | wikan | i use wicd now for usb |
| 21:07.58 | fsmithred | I know what connman is |
| 21:08.05 | vostro | wicd did not install for me when I had to wifi |
| 21:08.16 | fsmithred | what desktop did you choose? |
| 21:08.22 | fsmithred | probably qt |
| 21:08.23 | vostro | LXQt |
| 21:08.27 | fsmithred | yup |
| 21:08.30 | fsmithred | wicd is gtk |
| 21:08.41 | *** join/#devuan brocashelm (~brocashel@107.181.166.211) |
| 21:08.41 | *** join/#devuan brocashelm (~brocashel@unaffiliated/brocashelm) |
| 21:09.12 | fsmithred | I don't remember what comes with kde. |
| 21:09.38 | wikan | i install wicd by self because network manager is too heavy |
| 21:09.54 | wikan | i use wicd-curses on my laptops :) |
| 21:10.04 | vostro | had to remove connman and then install wicd. Otherwise I would get a conflict |
| 21:10.29 | ankokukishi | im just curious but what was behind the decision to keep the DE of devuan looking like windows 98? To keep it lightweight? |
| 21:10.40 | vostro | Wifi would start off disabled and wouldn't automatically reconnect on boot |
| 21:10.42 | fsmithred | that's xfce |
| 21:10.54 | fsmithred | yes, it's a lightweight desktop environment |
| 21:11.31 | gnarface | ankokukishi: xfce got promoted to default window manager over gnome due to time constraints (it was a lot more work to extract systemd from gnome) |
| 21:11.56 | gnarface | ankokukishi: just stuck that way after because everyone liked it |
| 21:11.56 | fsmithred | win98 had all the basic elements of a useful interface |
| 21:11.57 | ankokukishi | i have mint 20 xfce but it looks more modern, whereas devuan looks "retro" for a lack of a better term. I am not criticizing it, i like it lightweight, just curious :) |
| 21:12.16 | vostro | wind:just make sure connamn isn't installed also. You don't won't two network managers competeing |
| 21:12.29 | brocashelm | xfce is the superior desktop for me |
| 21:12.35 | ankokukishi | i agree |
| 21:12.36 | brocashelm | i'm glad xfce was considered over gnome |
| 21:12.55 | ankokukishi | i hate LMDE because its on cinnamon |
| 21:13.05 | ankokukishi | just wasting memory on flashy crap |
| 21:15.01 | fsmithred | we couldn't even run gnome in devuan at first |
| 21:15.13 | fsmithred | I'm not sure what made the difference. Maybe elogind. |
| 21:15.27 | ankokukishi | wow that sucks |
| 21:15.45 | fsmithred | only for those who want gnome |
| 21:16.16 | vostro | Even if you instal the LXQt desktop, you still get the xfce window manager by default - which is what I am running |
| 21:16.29 | brocashelm | yes, xfwm4 |
| 21:16.36 | fsmithred | not openbox? |
| 21:16.43 | ankokukishi | i like it as is, nice and light, perfect for a laptop, hopefully itll let the battery live longer than mint 20 |
| 21:16.51 | brocashelm | isn't openbox mostly lxde? |
| 21:17.28 | fsmithred | not sure. I've installed lxqt after lxde and had openbox already |
| 21:17.49 | brocashelm | i tried lxde before (lubuntu) and remember the openbox settings |
| 21:17.56 | brocashelm | i didn't like lxde that much |
| 21:18.06 | brocashelm | found it to be a pain to work with, especially with setting the keybindings |
| 21:18.33 | vostro | Debian does a nice job of skinning LXQt. I think much better than anyone else. |
| 21:19.22 | ankokukishi | i dont get why people have to have pretty DEs, functionality is more important *cough*Win10*cough* |
| 21:19.27 | vostro | I believe that Devuan is using the same LXQt skinning package |
| 21:19.32 | ankokukishi | maybe thats showing my age lol |
| 21:19.53 | *** join/#devuan unixman_home (~unixman2@32-108-35-72.mtaonline.net) |
| 21:19.54 | brocashelm | anokokukishi: xfce is the perfect middle ground because it's lightweight while still being feature-rich |
| 21:19.54 | *** join/#devuan unixman_home (~unixman2@unaffiliated/eracc) |
| 21:20.19 | brocashelm | you can easily load up xfce in an instant and see 250-300 mb used up at most |
| 21:20.24 | ankokukishi | yeah |
| 21:20.42 | ankokukishi | i noticed that mint 20 xfce runs around 1.5gb |
| 21:20.47 | ankokukishi | average |
| 21:21.09 | ankokukishi | i think ive pushed it to like 2.3 before |
| 21:21.13 | vostro | I don't need pretty desktop. Just wanted the lightest weight desktop/window manager combination where everything worked out of the box. |
| 21:21.28 | brocashelm | i could go the tiling wm route, but xfce just works |
| 21:21.28 | ankokukishi | im wondering how old of a pc can run refracta |
| 21:22.02 | brocashelm | that also depends on the kernel version |
| 21:22.12 | vostro | Wasn't sure if openbox installs a file manager or panel for example. |
| 21:22.20 | gnarface | i just updated a pentium 266 with 183MB of ram to beowulf |
| 21:22.24 | fsmithred | 2005 Athlon X2 is the oldest thing I have here |
| 21:22.31 | gnarface | i'm pretty sure you can get a really old computer running it if you're patient |
| 21:22.39 | brocashelm | the newer the kernel, the less likely it will work on a standard i386 machine |
| 21:22.48 | ankokukishi | ah |
| 21:23.02 | fsmithred | ankokukishi, what's the oldest computer you have? |
| 21:23.04 | brocashelm | but i could get mint 18.3 xfce with 4.15 kernel working on a 2004 dell laptop just fine |
| 21:23.07 | gnarface | yea but most of the P2 and P3 chips should work fine, a couple might need a kernel param |
| 21:23.23 | gnarface | stuff older than a P2 will require a custom kernel build |
| 21:23.27 | brocashelm | on a pentium m (single core) cpu |
| 21:23.38 | ankokukishi | not THAT old, i have an old NEC that stopped working a long time ago, i think it has like 512mb ram or osmething. I got it when i first moved to japan 14 years ago |
| 21:23.49 | ankokukishi | its a core duo iirc |
| 21:23.55 | fsmithred | it'll work |
| 21:23.57 | ankokukishi | oh no its older than that |
| 21:23.58 | ankokukishi | lol |
| 21:24.01 | vostro | Still have a Gateway 2000 486 with 32 mb of ram running slackware with a windows/dos partition :) |
| 21:24.06 | gnarface | P2 266 that is |
| 21:24.10 | fsmithred | don't try to run firefox or chromium |
| 21:24.12 | brocashelm | that's just how good gnu/linux is. it will push your machine to its limits :D |
| 21:24.15 | gnarface | (toshiba satellite pro laptop) |
| 21:24.59 | ankokukishi | push the LOWER limits lol |
| 21:25.06 | brocashelm | i recently upgraded a core2 quad system to i5 |
| 21:25.19 | brocashelm | not the first one, but moving things around as my budget improves during this shitty pandemic |
| 21:25.25 | ankokukishi | my old dell has a core2 duo |
| 21:25.31 | gnarface | Toshiba Satellite 4015CDT <<< this is the oldest machine i currently have running devuan |
| 21:25.57 | brocashelm | it's amazing how stupidly low the prices are for ancient desktops that can still run miles around so-called "modern computers" |
| 21:26.57 | ankokukishi | holy shit, that toshiba is so old i cant even find any on sale here in japan lol |
| 21:27.22 | gnarface | i have two that are older, but they have pentium 1 chips in them, so they're not really worth it |
| 21:27.24 | brocashelm | those dell optiplexes are perfect for a stable os as devuan, since they were designed for office use and productivity in mind. very quiet and low on resources, yet can even handle mid-level gaming |
| 21:29.29 | wikan | weird |
| 21:29.45 | wikan | installed /home on second disk |
| 21:29.59 | wikan | working and bam input output error |
| 21:30.17 | gnarface | that's a bad sign |
| 21:30.23 | vostro | My Favorite computer laptop was the Toshiba Libretto 70CT. So small it would fit in your briefcase. Very innovative mouse design. |
| 21:32.12 | ankokukishi | i think my fav computer is the one i have now or the dell |
| 21:32.29 | ankokukishi | i need an SSD for it |
| 21:32.35 | ankokukishi | but i need an ssd for my laptop too lol |
| 21:32.40 | wikan | back to work :| |
| 21:32.46 | wikan | files back on its place |
| 21:33.12 | wikan | not sure if i want to use /home there |
| 21:33.26 | fsmithred | run smartctl to check the disk |
| 21:33.28 | vostro | Devuan made my favorite computer My Dell Vostro A(0 netbook again |
| 21:33.40 | vostro | A90 I mean |
| 21:33.41 | fsmithred | package name is smartmontools |
| 21:34.46 | ankokukishi | hmm im gonna install some packages real quick on my laptop |
| 21:39.37 | wikan | i dont know how to use smartctl :| |
| 21:39.49 | brocashelm | there's also a gooey version of it |
| 21:39.54 | brocashelm | gsmartcontrol |
| 21:40.04 | fsmithred | smartctl -a /dev/sda |
| 21:40.11 | fsmithred | as root |
| 21:40.26 | fsmithred | look for PASSED near the top |
| 21:40.40 | fsmithred | and look for Reallocated sectors. There should be none. |
| 21:40.42 | wikan | well |
| 21:40.49 | wikan | the problem is that |
| 21:40.58 | wikan | disk disapeared again |
| 21:41.06 | wikan | no entry in lsblk |
| 21:41.23 | wikan | and it happens AGAIN after I change screen resolution |
| 21:41.38 | wikan | maybe connection :D |
| 21:43.51 | wikan | guys |
| 21:44.04 | wikan | changine resolution in XFCE removes a drive |
| 21:44.31 | wikan | restarted, changed resolution, /home files dissapeared |
| 21:44.43 | fsmithred | I get what you're saying, but I don't know what would cause that |
| 21:44.58 | fsmithred | bad power supply? |
| 21:45.12 | wikan | one more time wait |
| 21:45.16 | wikan | restarting |
| 21:46.35 | wikan | yeap |
| 21:46.45 | wikan | it happen again |
| 21:46.55 | wikan | lol |
| 21:49.54 | *** join/#devuan vernon (~quassel@rrcs-72-43-221-6.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:50.27 | ankokukishi | is there something i can download that will tell me how much battery life i have left? |
| 21:50.48 | fsmithred | xfce has a battery monitor plugin |
| 21:52.07 | ankokukishi | is there a way i can put it in my panel? |
| 21:52.15 | fsmithred | xfce4-battery-plugin |
| 21:52.26 | fsmithred | yeah, right-click on the panel |
| 21:52.43 | fsmithred | on a blank spot on the panel |
| 21:52.52 | fsmithred | choose Panel, Add new item |
| 21:52.56 | ankokukishi | nm found it |
| 21:53.51 | ankokukishi | in the xfce battery settings tab there was a little button that added a battery icon to the panel |
| 21:55.14 | ankokukishi | its 7am and NOW i get sleepy |
| 21:55.19 | ankokukishi | fuck |
| 21:55.20 | ankokukishi | lol |
| 21:55.24 | fsmithred | ouch |
| 21:55.53 | ankokukishi | well after the night i had last night, i knew sleeping was gonna be hard :/ |
| 21:55.57 | fsmithred | once the birds are awake, it's too late to go to sleep |
| 21:56.01 | ankokukishi | lol |
| 21:56.08 | ankokukishi | for me its cicadas |
| 21:56.14 | ankokukishi | noisy fuckers |
| 21:57.00 | ankokukishi | well i could sleep a couple hours |
| 21:57.02 | brocashelm | lol, i'm a night owl |
| 21:57.04 | ankokukishi | just like a nap |
| 21:57.11 | brocashelm | this shit is nothing |
| 21:57.22 | ankokukishi | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzlILjFqZlo |
| 21:57.32 | ankokukishi | just something i needed to share :D |
| 22:05.43 | ankokukishi | well im gonna go get a LITTLE sleep, i gotta go do some stuff later |
| 22:05.55 | ankokukishi | and i need to kinda be alive to do this crap |
| 22:06.22 | ankokukishi | thansk for helping me with all this stuff getting refracta up and running, ill definitely be back lol |
| 22:13.45 | *** part/#devuan conifer (~conifer@gateway/tor-sasl/conifer) |
| 22:20.51 | ShorTie | if any body wants to play with libreswan, they just push my Devuan patches to github |
| 22:21.03 | ShorTie | so it should build ok |
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| 22:45.27 | vernon | Why would I want to use libreswan over openvpn? |
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