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| 01:11.31 | *** join/#devuan Wafficus (~Wafficus@75.115.86.20) |
| 01:11.55 | Wafficus | hi there, can anyone help me add my microsoft lifechat headset to my qlink program, which is a ham radio program for Echolink? |
| 01:12.04 | Wafficus | its says "alsa:default" for the main audio |
| 01:12.08 | Wafficus | but I need to change it to the headset instead |
| 01:13.39 | gnarface | Wafficus: is it a USB device? |
| 01:13.58 | Wafficus | yes |
| 01:14.06 | Wafficus | it shows up under alsamixer |
| 01:14.11 | Wafficus | but I don't know the "text value" name of it |
| 01:14.11 | gnarface | Wafficus: try to find it in the output of "aplay -l" and "aplay -L" |
| 01:14.17 | Wafficus | since qtel needs the exact text name |
| 01:14.26 | Wafficus | there's no drop down menu to select it, so it needs the text value name |
| 01:14.36 | Wafficus | got it: |
| 01:14.44 | Wafficus | card 2: LX3000 [Microsoft LifeChat LX-3000], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] |
| 01:14.46 | Wafficus | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:14.48 | Wafficus | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:14.53 | gnarface | ok |
| 01:15.00 | gnarface | so it is hw:2,0 |
| 01:15.19 | gnarface | but you might be able to find a more useful logical device attached to it in "aplay -L" |
| 01:15.26 | gnarface | (note the case difference in "L" changes the output) |
| 01:15.27 | Wafficus | hmm, how did you know it was hw:2,0? |
| 01:15.30 | Wafficus | just curious |
| 01:15.42 | gnarface | all devices have both physical and logical references |
| 01:15.59 | Wafficus | it shows up a few times in aplay -L though |
| 01:16.09 | gnarface | the format for the physical reference is hw:[card index],[device index] |
| 01:16.14 | Wafficus | not sure which would be applicable if i need it for headphone output and mic input |
| 01:16.21 | Wafficus | ah I see |
| 01:16.38 | gnarface | paste the "aplay -L" output at paste.debian.net and i'll tell you |
| 01:16.43 | Wafficus | ok will do |
| 01:17.25 | Wafficus | I tried paste.debian.net but its "unavailable" right now |
| 01:17.41 | Wafficus | would you be ok with termbin? |
| 01:17.52 | gnarface | just /msg it to me |
| 01:17.58 | Wafficus | ok |
| 01:18.21 | gnarface | default rate limiting will make it take a long time to get here, just be patient |
| 01:18.27 | Wafficus | i tried /msg and /pm |
| 01:18.41 | gnarface | you found it |
| 01:22.48 | gnarface | it's still coming |
| 01:23.13 | gnarface | are you using pulseaudio too, by the way? |
| 01:24.52 | Wafficus | gnarface: cool, pasted the 171 lines to you lol |
| 01:24.54 | Wafficus | in a pm |
| 01:24.56 | Wafficus | not sure honestly |
| 01:24.58 | Wafficus | Firefox MIGHT have installed it but I haven't used it personally |
| 01:25.00 | Wafficus | not sure what installed it to be honest |
| 01:25.13 | gnarface | dpkg -l |grep pulse |
| 01:25.16 | gnarface | ps aux |grep pulse |
| 01:26.05 | Wafficus | k |
| 01:26.22 | Wafficus | sam@samdevuan ~ $ dpkg -l | grep pulse |
| 01:26.23 | Wafficus | ii gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio:amd64 1.14.4-1 amd64 GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio |
| 01:26.25 | Wafficus | ii libpulse0:amd64 12.2-4+deb10u1 amd64 PulseAudio client libraries |
| 01:26.27 | Wafficus | ii libpulse0:i386 12.2-4+deb10u1 i386 PulseAudio client libraries |
| 01:26.42 | Wafficus | sam@samdevuan ~ $ ps aux | grep pulse |
| 01:26.43 | Wafficus | sam 3132 0.0 0.0 6076 896 pts/4 S+ 21:26 0:00 grep pulse |
| 01:27.49 | gnarface | CARD=LX3000 |
| 01:27.53 | gnarface | no pulseaudio |
| 01:28.33 | nullraum | po nulseaudio |
| 01:28.52 | MinceR | po aulsenudio |
| 01:28.52 | nullraum | pobody's nerfect |
| 01:29.12 | Wafficus | gotcha |
| 01:29.17 | Wafficus | CARD=LX3000, got it |
| 01:29.25 | Wafficus | so should I use that for my mic AND headphone right |
| 01:29.34 | gnarface | looks like it's even got firewire lol |
| 01:31.05 | gnarface | and 6-channel surround-sound! |
| 01:31.12 | gnarface | thx compatible haha |
| 01:31.20 | Wafficus | lol |
| 01:33.41 | Wafficus | I tried "CARD=LX3000" for the "Mic audio device" and "Speaker audio device" setting values in "qtel", but i'm getting "Could not open speaker audio device" on qtel unfortunately |
| 01:33.50 | Wafficus | *when I try to connect to any radio repeater |
| 01:35.05 | gnarface | sorry no that's not the right syntax |
| 01:35.14 | gnarface | i gotta tell you some more stuff, one second |
| 01:36.17 | gnarface | sending back an example ~/.asoundrc |
| 01:37.16 | gnarface | there, try that, just those 3 lines as-is |
| 01:37.49 | Wafficus | like within ~/.asoundrc right? |
| 01:37.52 | Wafficus | I don't think I have one |
| 01:37.56 | Wafficus | or rather, I think MAYBE it might be in /etc |
| 01:37.58 | Wafficus | I forget |
| 01:38.12 | gnarface | put it in your ~/.asoundrc, you wouldn't have it by default |
| 01:38.20 | gnarface | you would not have one by default |
| 01:38.24 | gnarface | i find it useful to keep several on hand |
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| 01:40.08 | Wafficus | ok |
| 01:40.10 | Wafficus | thanks |
| 01:40.11 | gnarface | "~/" gets expanded by the shell to the literal string that is the full path of your home directory |
| 01:40.26 | Wafficus | yeah that much of Bash expansion I remember |
| 01:40.37 | Wafficus | i'll load a new terminal and see if I'm able to launch qtel one sec |
| 01:41.14 | gnarface | for changes to the ~/.asoundrc to be recognized, you need only stop any programs that were started before it changed |
| 01:41.23 | gnarface | (only relevant to programs actually using alsa of course) |
| 01:41.43 | Wafficus | so wait, what do I have put for "Mic audio device" and "Speaker audio device" in that case? |
| 01:41.57 | Wafficus | * in qtel so that it can detect my headphone for mic and audio |
| 01:42.55 | gnarface | not sure but probably the literal string "default" if nothing is provided as a default |
| 01:43.16 | Wafficus | ok |
| 01:45.02 | gnarface | though it might be interesting to see what happens if you specify "surround71" for the speaker audio device |
| 01:45.33 | gnarface | and make sure you actually have the right alsamixer interface for this device |
| 01:45.55 | gnarface | you have several cards, so just running "alsamixer" without -c or that ~/.asoundrc would probably give you volume controls for the wrong one |
| 01:46.15 | Wafficus | ok, so its not freaking out anymore, but I'm not sure if its actually picking up my mic signal |
| 01:46.17 | gnarface | s/probably/nearly certainly/ |
| 01:46.31 | Wafficus | * allows me to connect to a station |
| 01:46.36 | gnarface | yea i wouldn't expect the mic to necessarily be unmuted, check that in alsamixer |
| 01:46.40 | Wafficus | will have to check alsamixer |
| 01:46.49 | gnarface | [tab] key to change to the inputs tab |
| 01:47.22 | gnarface | default would only show outputs, which on many devices also has a mic control but one that does not affect recording levels, which can really confuse testing |
| 01:49.02 | Wafficus | yeah I think that worked, thanks |
| 01:49.13 | gnarface | you're welcome |
| 01:49.25 | Wafficus | no contacts yet, but I think that the repeater got my signal since I heard it signal back |
| 01:49.30 | Wafficus | so its a matter of finding some active repeaters |
| 01:49.32 | Wafficus | gonna be fun ;) |
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| 01:49.52 | Wafficus | got my ham radio license a few weeks ago, but just got a low end Baofeng UV-5R so I can only hit the repeater nearby |
| 01:50.02 | Wafficus | with Echolink via "qtel" its gonna be a lot more |
| 01:50.29 | gnarface | sounds fun |
| 01:53.22 | Wafficus | how was your week btw? |
| 01:53.24 | Wafficus | gnarface: |
| 01:54.43 | gnarface | that's offtopic, but it was peaceful, thanks |
| 01:55.09 | gnarface | i'm totally jealous of the ham radio and license, btw. congrats on that |
| 01:56.50 | gnarface | iec958 is the digital/spdif channel (though technically not spdif in this case i guess the software wouldn't know the difference) |
| 01:57.12 | gnarface | if you have a problem with software that won't accept the other interfaces because it thinks they're analog or something like that, try iec958 |
| 01:58.42 | gnarface | and actually, come to think of it, the strings "plug:dmix" and "plug:dsnoop" without quotes, should work for output and input respectively, if "default" doesn't |
| 01:59.16 | gnarface | default should work for both but doesn't always, depending on driver and hardware limitations (sometimes just bugs) |
| 02:03.44 | gnarface | default is supposed to imply dmix and dsnoop too, but that doesn't always work right either |
| 02:04.11 | gnarface | if you need to bypass dmix and dsnoop for any reason, use the hw:x,y notation instead |
| 02:05.44 | Wafficus | the "alsa:default" option worked |
| 02:05.47 | Wafficus | so should be ok |
| 02:05.51 | gnarface | cool |
| 02:06.36 | gnarface | note that not all the options that work necessarily will have the same latency or cpu usage |
| 02:07.04 | gnarface | "hw" is the fastest but also with most devices implies only one thing can use it at a time |
| 02:07.27 | Wafficus | I see |
| 02:08.37 | gnarface | oh and since recordings matter, check to make sure the sample rates default to the optimal one for the device |
| 02:08.50 | gnarface | usually this works right for output but for some reason less often for input |
| 02:09.36 | gnarface | although usually what goes wrong is it'll default to 8000Hz, which will be very obvious in the recording quality |
| 02:10.23 | gnarface | also |
| 02:10.28 | gnarface | i have no idea what the "usbstream" one is |
| 02:11.29 | Wafficus | gotcha |
| 02:11.33 | Wafficus | well, seems to work for now ha |
| 02:11.41 | gnarface | that's what matters |
| 02:12.04 | gnarface | i'm just tacking on some information that might come in useful later |
| 02:24.09 | Wafficus | gotcha |
| 02:24.11 | Wafficus | thanks |
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| 06:21.35 | systemdlete | is there a way to get apt to revert the last set of updates? |
| 06:34.19 | fling | I have a bunch of stuff like different libs marked as manual. |
| 06:34.25 | fling | How to uninstall them properly? ^ |
| 06:34.29 | fling | the unneeded ones |
| 06:35.27 | systemdlete | So "apt update" told me there were upgradable packages. I then looked to see using --upgradable. I thought I wanted the changes, and did "apt upgrade" but this seems to have broken things |
| 06:35.43 | systemdlete | So what I want to do is simply undo JUST the packages that were upgraded |
| 06:36.05 | systemdlete | I guess I can write a script to do this, but if there is a tool that would be better and more convenient. |
| 06:36.38 | systemdlete | Maybe that explains it more clearly. |
| 06:37.06 | systemdlete | IOW, I don't want to remove the packages, just put them back to how things were before that one upgrade, which included about 50 packages I think. |
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| 07:10.01 | gnarface | i don't know of any tools |
| 07:10.18 | gnarface | not anything that wouldn't have needed to be set up ahead of time anyway, systemdlete |
| 07:10.31 | gnarface | fling: just "apt-get purge [package name]" |
| 07:10.39 | systemdlete | no |
| 07:10.41 | systemdlete | no! |
| 07:10.45 | systemdlete | I do not want to do that |
| 07:10.56 | gnarface | you want to roll back to the previous versions, right? |
| 07:10.57 | systemdlete | It's OK, I am putting together a perl script to do this. |
| 07:11.10 | systemdlete | purge will get rid of the packages completely. |
| 07:11.16 | gnarface | systemdlete: ignore the thing for fling |
| 07:11.24 | systemdlete | ??? |
| 07:11.46 | gnarface | are you and fling the same person, systemdlete ? |
| 07:12.03 | systemdlete | oh, I thought you were suggesting I just kind of "fling it" |
| 07:12.06 | gnarface | no |
| 07:12.10 | systemdlete | sorry |
| 07:12.25 | systemdlete | That's why I pick unique nicks and user names... |
| 07:12.30 | systemdlete | lol |
| 07:12.33 | gnarface | but i don't know of any way you can fix your problem at this point other than restoring from backup, or combing through the apt log for the old version numbers of everything |
| 07:12.45 | systemdlete | that's what I am doing now, thanks |
| 07:12.52 | gnarface | oh well |
| 07:13.09 | gnarface | oh, no nevermind the old versions wouldn't still be in your cache probably |
| 07:13.16 | gnarface | yea, the apt log is your best bet i think |
| 07:13.33 | gnarface | this might be a good use case for snapshots though |
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| 07:28.24 | systemdlete | Yes. If I had thought of it BEFOREHAND... |
| 07:28.31 | systemdlete | (another friday night... ruined) |
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| 07:29.11 | systemdlete | Anyway, what is the specific syntax for installing a specific version of a package. It seems to be something like "apt install pkgname =1.2.3 but I can't seem to get the =part right. |
| 07:29.50 | systemdlete | oh |
| 07:29.58 | gnarface | has to be exact |
| 07:30.03 | systemdlete | the = comes right after the last letter of the package name, no space! |
| 07:30.04 | gnarface | and no space between package name and the = |
| 07:30.09 | gnarface | yea |
| 07:30.10 | systemdlete | that was not clear from the docs |
| 07:30.12 | systemdlete | doh! |
| 07:30.14 | systemdlete | ok |
| 07:30.25 | gnarface | it has to still be in the repo, too, so be fast |
| 07:31.41 | gnarface | though conceivably you could configure an apt proxy to cache older versions for longer |
| 07:38.40 | linearain | hi |
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| 07:43.36 | systemdlete | looks like firefox 80.0 is gone |
| 07:43.44 | systemdlete | just 80.0.1 |
| 07:43.51 | systemdlete | and I think 78 |
| 07:44.08 | systemdlete | I was able to downgrade to 78, just not to 80 |
| 07:46.06 | fling | don't just fling it |
| 07:46.07 | systemdlete | crud. |
| 07:46.19 | systemdlete | why not, at this point? |
| 07:47.04 | systemdlete | actually, gnarface, this is mx, not devuan. But I think apt works the same, just different repos. And I'm not asking anyone HERE to fix mx for me. That voided the warranty long ago. |
| 07:47.11 | systemdlete | I know. |
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| 07:47.51 | fling | gnarface: I'm thinking to marking them as auto instead |
| 07:47.58 | linearain | did anyone migrate from buster to devuan? |
| 07:48.00 | fling | gnarface: is the manual list supposed to not have any libs in it at all? |
| 07:48.07 | fling | linearain: I did this many times |
| 07:48.20 | lunario | what's the reason that a particular version of a package is listed in pkginfo.devuan.org as being in beowulf-backports but not in experimental or testing? aren't backports automatically based on future releases of packages that are in experimental/testing phase in devuna? |
| 07:48.22 | lunario | *devuan |
| 07:48.49 | linearain | fling, did you notice stability improvements? |
| 07:50.07 | systemdlete | I think mx is a rolling release. This is why I hate rolling releases. I much prefer solid package management and testing. I am a fool. |
| 07:50.08 | fling | linearain: sure I don't need to worry about systemd anymore |
| 07:50.57 | fling | linearain: for example I had many issues with systemd and I can't experience them or any new ones anymore |
| 07:51.13 | fling | linearain: for lxd containers I don't need to add 'raw.lxc: lxc.mount.auto = cgroup' to the config |
| 07:51.21 | systemdlete | It is "semi-rolling" |
| 07:51.32 | systemdlete | All I know is that I feel like I just got rolled over. |
| 07:51.46 | fling | And I can remove this line from fstab -> systemd /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd cgroup X-mount.mkdir,name=systemd,none 0 0 |
| 07:51.54 | systemdlete | And hollering into #mx-linux for help doesn't do any good. All I hear is my own echo. |
| 07:52.10 | systemdlete | That's why I came here. Sorry, wasn't trying to fool anybody. Just needed some help. |
| 07:52.27 | fling | I'm using zfs so in case of something going wrong here I can just rollback to a checkpoint or zfs snapshot or lxd snapshot |
| 07:52.45 | systemdlete | fling: I'm using vbox which has snapshotting built in. |
| 07:53.00 | systemdlete | but I didn't bother to snapshot before I upgraded. Big mistake. |
| 07:53.18 | fling | is something wrong now? |
| 07:53.29 | systemdlete | This is mx we are talking about. |
| 07:53.33 | systemdlete | not devuan. |
| 07:54.33 | fling | I've been using devuan for mx for years without issues btw |
| 07:54.36 | systemdlete | both firefox and chromium eat shared mem (/dev/shm) like mad. They quickly exhaust the /dev/shm and cause the browsers to crash |
| 07:54.52 | fling | what do you mean not devuan? |
| 07:54.52 | systemdlete | fling: mx-linux, not somethng else called mx |
| 07:54.58 | linearain | palemoon is a decent browser |
| 07:54.59 | fling | oh |
| 07:56.38 | systemdlete | I chucked artix linux a while back for similar reasons. mx and artix both are systemd-free, but they have other issues. |
| 07:57.37 | systemdlete | It's like devuan is the only linux distro left that has any sort of sanity to it. Fixed releases, no systemd, etc. |
| 07:58.22 | linearain | fling, what init system you use after migrating from buster to devun? and was it easy to do? |
| 07:58.41 | systemdlete | And devuan is beholden, to some extent, to the whims of debian. For over 25 years, we had a decent OS. But because of manipulation by one player, nearly every distro out there has gone rogue. |
| 07:58.44 | fling | linearain: I have no idea, the default one. |
| 07:59.11 | fling | linearain: I just typed in each container whatever the conversion page said. |
| 07:59.12 | systemdlete | e.g., I loved centos, but they also went systemd with v7 |
| 07:59.47 | systemdlete | I wait with anticipation for adelie linux. But I think it is a year or more off before GA. |
| 08:00.13 | systemdlete | Meantime, it's devuan, or maybe one of its spin-offs. |
| 08:00.39 | fling | I'm mostly using gentoo everywhere. |
| 08:00.57 | fling | I'm not using devuan on hardware because it has no lxd packaged. |
| 08:10.32 | fling | systemdlete: why exactly are you asking about mx-linux here? |
| 08:10.42 | systemdlete | I explained that above |
| 08:10.58 | systemdlete | It is difficult to get help in their channel, and apt is fairly universal |
| 08:11.18 | fling | oh |
| 08:11.26 | fling | there is a way to pin certain versions |
| 08:11.43 | systemdlete | too late for that. |
| 08:11.43 | nullraum | I ended up settling in with it after trying several other lennart-free distros |
| 08:11.53 | nullraum | it's the only one that consistently is problem free |
| 08:11.58 | nullraum | runner up is void |
| 08:12.12 | systemdlete | nullraum: which one is problem free? We are talking several distros here |
| 08:12.17 | nullraum | devuan |
| 08:12.20 | systemdlete | ok |
| 08:12.22 | nullraum | just tends to work for me |
| 08:12.26 | systemdlete | I'd say I agree |
| 08:12.43 | systemdlete | A lot of that rests with its stability, due to it being a fixed release. |
| 08:13.30 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@devuan/community/Xenguy) |
| 08:13.34 | systemdlete | Of course, the downside is you don't get all the latest, "greatest," slickest, coolest, wow, man-am-I-tough versions of software. |
| 08:13.38 | nullraum | I'm glad it exists though...cause otherwise I would be considering bsd |
| 08:13.47 | systemdlete | me too, nullraum. Me too! |
| 08:14.33 | systemdlete | And I have looked at bsd. But I personally don't like it. I was brought up mostly in the AT&T world, where I worked for the first few years of my career. So I got to know sys V rather intimately. |
| 08:15.03 | nullraum | and I managed to find a vm host that enthusiastically supports it |
| 08:15.13 | systemdlete | which one? |
| 08:15.25 | nullraum | https://datacenterlight.ch/ |
| 08:15.30 | systemdlete | hmmm. |
| 08:15.34 | nullraum | other bonuses too |
| 08:15.43 | nullraum | if you're into green energy, apparently it 99% runs on hydro |
| 08:15.49 | nullraum | and then there's swiss data law |
| 08:16.14 | systemdlete | a number of vendors do that also. I've been with a few in the past. |
| 08:16.47 | systemdlete | What exactly are they hosting there: Some form of devuan, or what? Home brew of their own. |
| 08:16.52 | systemdlete | ? |
| 08:17.14 | systemdlete | (yeah, swiss data law is nice I hear) |
| 08:17.25 | nullraum | let me see... |
| 08:17.31 | systemdlete | (among the strictest in Europe I hear) |
| 08:18.05 | systemdlete | frankly, nullraum, if they are using systemd of any kind, I'm gone. No way. |
| 08:18.06 | nullraum | says their services run on devuan |
| 08:18.11 | systemdlete | wow. |
| 08:18.15 | systemdlete | very cool. |
| 08:18.23 | nullraum | and it's also offered as an installation |
| 08:18.24 | systemdlete | Nice to know there is a growing fan club out there. |
| 08:19.05 | systemdlete | If I ever need a VPS or the like, I'll certainly take a look at them. Thanks for the info. |
| 08:19.57 | nullraum | no problem |
| 08:20.12 | nullraum | their prices are slightly higher than some other providers I've seen, but nothing crazy |
| 08:20.59 | nullraum | you'll probably like this |
| 08:21.06 | nullraum | https://ungleich.ch/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/d3/7e/d37e1d32-e303-46f1-b96a-ae9582296458/devuan-shirt-ungleich.jpg__1156x726_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg |
| 08:21.13 | nullraum | "Team ungleich @ Devuan Conference 2019, Amsterdam" |
| 08:21.35 | systemdlete | I don't mind paying a bit more if their service is good. I went with one green VPS in the past, but as time went on, they started getting increasingly corporate and I quit them. |
| 08:21.41 | systemdlete | Devuan merch! YES! |
| 08:22.41 | nullraum | seems pretty reliable in my usage...only issues is a bit of latency, which is unavoidable because of the distance |
| 08:22.45 | nullraum | *issue |
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| 08:59.11 | gnarface | fling: it doesn't really matter whether the libs are manually installed or not |
| 08:59.49 | gnarface | fling: sometimes you might have added one manually if there were missing dependencies or you were doing something custom... |
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| 09:35.09 | fling | gnarface: right but these were in the lxd image I used for creating this container instance many months ago |
| 09:35.15 | fling | gnarface: maybe it was ascii or jessie |
| 09:35.35 | fling | gnarface: is it fine to just mark all the libs as auto? |
| 09:35.52 | fling | What is really needed to be set as manual? |
| 09:40.28 | gnu_srs | rowbee: Please forward #964139 to the CTTE! |
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| 10:40.34 | gnarface | fling: i thought it was just set to manual if you request the package by name yourself |
| 10:40.54 | gnarface | fling: it will change already installed packages to manual if you apt-get install them |
| 10:41.44 | gnarface | fling: they'll still be automatically updated... you know that, right? i'm not quite sure what the concern is here. |
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| 11:02.57 | fling | gnarface: ok good to know |
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| 11:40.23 | ShorTie | how would i change networking start up from rcS to rc2.d ?? |
| 11:41.25 | ShorTie | i know i gotta edit /etc/init.d/networking to a Default-Start of 2 |
| 11:43.40 | *** join/#devuan ac_laptop (~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129) |
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| 11:59.22 | r3boot | ShorTie: https://linuxjourney.com/lesson/sysv-overview |
| 12:27.50 | fsmithred | ShorTie, update-rc.d if you like command-line, sysv-rc-conf if you like easy (arrows and space bar) |
| 12:45.55 | n4dir | pastebinit gives some warnings and as the resulting link all i get ist paste.debian.net |
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| 13:20.42 | n4dir | Looks like it's paste.debian.net being down, adding -b paste.ubuntu.com solves that issue. |
| 13:20.57 | n4dir | So back to the problem: when starting streamtuner2 i get this error: |
| 13:21.10 | n4dir | http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WxzzQ3nRbK/ |
| 13:21.30 | n4dir | a simple: nope, streamtuner2 works for me is enough as an answer |
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| 15:08.27 | brocashelm | https://www.slant.co/options/22383/~devuan-gnu-linux-review |
| 15:08.52 | brocashelm | huh, ranked #1 on this web site for debian-based distros. debian at #3 |
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| 15:13.11 | fsmithred | This is false: "Unlike Debian, Devuan offers no unfree netinstall media," |
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| 15:29.17 | brocashelm | yes, that should be corrected. i remember seeing a netinstall iso |
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| 15:36.46 | Xenguy | I don't see any way to correct that falsehood |
| 15:36.52 | Xenguy | On that web site |
| 15:37.39 | Xenguy | Always nice to see Devuan's name in lights tho : -) |
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| 16:03.05 | fsmithred | probably need to create an account there to post a comment |
| 16:03.13 | fsmithred | ain't gonna happen |
| 16:03.31 | fsmithred | so, I just tried to dist-upgrade my laptop to beowulf and it did not work |
| 16:03.51 | Xenguy | From ASCII, or ...? |
| 16:03.53 | fsmithred | changed sources.list, apt update, and then |
| 16:03.54 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 16:03.59 | Xenguy | darn |
| 16:04.04 | fsmithred | aptitude -s full-upgrade |
| 16:04.06 | fsmithred | or |
| 16:04.10 | fsmithred | apt -s upgrade |
| 16:04.23 | fsmithred | actually, not the second one, just the first... |
| 16:04.32 | fsmithred | tells me that 1 package needs up |
| 16:04.37 | fsmithred | ca-certificates |
| 16:04.47 | fsmithred | but it fails because openssl is too old |
| 16:05.04 | Xenguy | I'm not sure if it is still the case, but when I first looked at aptitude, it didn't seem to be compatible with apt-get, so I decided to stick with the latter |
| 16:05.31 | Xenguy | Huh |
| 16:05.47 | fsmithred | my beowulf on the desktop shows 13 packages to upgrade, and I've done that in the last couple weeks |
| 16:06.45 | mason | I'm curious about something... On Beowulf, with libvirt/kvm/qemu, and with a local virt-manager, I don't see CPU statistics on any guests. I don't remember this with Beowulf as a remote hypervisor with virt-manager on Ubuntu looking. Haven't really begun exploration yet - just noticing it. |
| 16:11.08 | mason | Hm, and I get guest CPU status with the remote hypervisor being Ubuntu. Maybe it's a local flag. |
| 16:13.52 | fsmithred | ok, 1152 packages will upgrade after I remove the pin on beowulf. doh! |
| 16:14.29 | mason | Oh. Interesting. My user can't get stats, but root can. This has to be some polkit issue. |
| 16:14.38 | mason | fsmithred: What sort of packages, and what was the pin? |
| 16:16.41 | fsmithred | what sort? uh, installed packages |
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| 16:16.59 | mason | Theme, I mean. |
| 16:17.00 | fsmithred | I had beowulf repos pinned to 10 |
| 16:17.29 | fsmithred | what theme do you mean? |
| 16:17.43 | mason | I was curious what was going to upgrade unexpectedly. |
| 16:17.46 | fsmithred | I'm doing a dist-upgrade from ascii to beowulf on the thinkpad |
| 16:17.51 | mason | ah |
| 16:18.09 | fsmithred | it was the oppsite: I expected everything to upgrade, but it gave me nothing. |
| 16:18.14 | mason | Thought you were already on Beowulf and had that thousand packages held back. |
| 16:18.19 | fsmithred | well, one to upgrade, but it failed |
| 16:18.29 | mason | pinning can be a dark art |
| 16:18.34 | fsmithred | desktop is on beowulf, laptop has ascii and chimaera |
| 16:18.38 | fsmithred | lol |
| 16:19.05 | fsmithred | I usually have a bunch of repos enabled that have no business being in my sources.list |
| 16:19.18 | fsmithred | just so I can look up package versions |
| 16:19.37 | mason | Reasonable. |
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| 16:21.34 | mason | aha, for reasons I'll have to explore, I don't have a cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct on Beowulf. |
| 16:22.16 | mason | Oh, I bet it's that Debian's moved to systemd, and expects systemd to manage cgroups. |
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| 16:40.21 | mason | Hrm, even with that mounted before libvirtd starts, I still don't get stats as a user, via virsh cpu-stats twiki --total. Going to reboot for kicks. |
| 16:44.13 | *** join/#devuan Hum (~j@ip1f114a8b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 16:45.37 | mason | A riddle wrapped in an enigma. With cgroupfs-mount installed and a fresh reboot for service ordering, virt-manager now shows CPU stats for local VMs, but 'virsh cpu-stats' still needs to be root to find domains. Weird. |
| 16:46.01 | mason | Something to explore another day I guess, as being able to notice spikes in virt-manager was my immediate goal. |
| 16:47.22 | mason | FWIW, this is the kind of thing I want to capture in a wiki. |
| 16:47.54 | mason | ...and it'll be somewhat specific to Devuan, since cgroup management is all ceded to systemd in Debian and others. |
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| 17:07.31 | mason | Yay, strace takes me up to a dbus call, so I have to trace the actual libvirtd if I want to proceed this way. |
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| 18:25.25 | fsmithred | upgrade to beowulf worked. Laptop lid suspend now works! |
| 18:28.49 | Xenguy | fsmithred: How did you get it fixed? |
| 18:29.11 | Xenguy | I mean, you reported the upgrade failed before |
| 18:29.26 | fsmithred | I un-pinned beowulf. :) |
| 18:29.44 | Xenguy | Oh, hah, right, I saw you're "doh" moment |
| 18:29.54 | Xenguy | Good to hear it went well then |
| 18:30.34 | fsmithred | I see why people do upgrades. It was much faster than fresh install and configuring, which usually takes me a few weeks. |
| 18:33.22 | Xenguy | The ability to not have to get config files back in place is a pretty killer feature |
| 18:34.01 | Xenguy | And reinstall all the software. Doable of course, but just a PITA |
| 18:34.38 | *** join/#devuan ac_laptop (~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129) |
| 18:36.28 | Xenguy | And, it's the Debian, now Devuan Way[TM] |
| 18:40.28 | *** join/#devuan luser977 (~resuuser@188.27.70.107) |
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| 19:46.17 | Xenguy | Is there a recommended license to use for Devuan documentation? Or is there a license for that currently? |
| 19:47.52 | *** join/#devuan cronolio (~alex@unaffiliated/cronolio) |
| 19:52.16 | gnarface | there's a recommended license for Debian documentation, and i assume Devuan follows suit just because i don't recall there being any big issue about the one they chose |
| 19:52.28 | gnarface | i could be wrong about that though |
| 19:52.35 | gnarface | and i forget exactly what license they use |
| 19:52.53 | gnarface | i used to know but now i can't remember if it was just all also GPL2 or if it was some creative commons license |
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| 19:53.28 | gnarface | it would have to be something OSI approved |
| 19:53.59 | Xenguy | Thanks, trying to track down the current license of Devuan's documentation, but not exactly sure where to look for that yet. |
| 19:54.19 | golinux | We talked with Bruce Perens about a wiki license a while back. I'll try to dig up that correspondence in a bit. |
| 19:55.28 | gnarface | hmmm, i see a log of a GR that seems to have been an argument against continuing to use GFDL in 2006... |
| 19:55.29 | golinux | That was maybe 2 years ago. |
| 19:56.49 | gnarface | if i'm reading this right, GFDL ended up winning out in 2006 |
| 19:57.00 | Xenguy | Huh, I really don't know a lot about licensing except for the basics of GPL vs. BSD |
| 19:57.25 | Xenguy | No real knowledge of Creative Commons licenses, other than that they exist |
| 19:57.29 | gnarface | Xenguy: Debian follows, or at least used to follow guidelines from a 3rd party organization called the OSI |
| 19:57.43 | gnarface | Xenguy: so my guess is their site will probably have the documentation |
| 19:58.04 | Xenguy | Thanks for the pointer |
| 19:58.20 | gnarface | oh, great, apparently that's a very popular acronym |
| 19:58.33 | gnarface | or... 3 initial set or whatever you call that |
| 19:58.43 | gnarface | you want the OSI that is the Open Source Initiative |
| 19:58.50 | Xenguy | 3 letter acronym |
| 19:59.19 | gnarface | not to be confused with OSI Systems, Inc, OSI Digital, or O.S.I. Architecture, or the Office of Special Investigations |
| 19:59.21 | Xenguy | cool |
| 20:00.00 | gnarface | i do know that the OSI is the primary driving force behind Debian having snubbed several popular BSD licenses |
| 20:00.33 | gnarface | ("too free" vs "not free enough" is a debate that will go well off into the weeds though) |
| 20:01.40 | Xenguy | Just ran across this but haven't tried it yet: https://choosealicense.com/ |
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| 20:27.05 | *** join/#devuan mtnbman (~user@172.58.59.135) |
| 20:27.10 | mtnbman | helo |
| 20:30.21 | gnarface | hello mtnbman, just ask your questions, don't wait for permission to ask |
| 20:36.18 | mtnbman | want to double-check something before i ask... |
| 20:41.24 | golinux | Xenguy: Check your mail for Peren's response to our query |
| 20:41.57 | mtnbman | ok... when i connect to a wifi network wicd drops the connection to my wired network. how can i stop this behaviour? |
| 20:42.22 | mtnbman | say hi to bruce! |
| 20:45.54 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@97.83-213-108.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 20:49.18 | Xenguy | Thanks golinux |
| 20:50.16 | Guest1348 | mtnbman: go to Preferences->General and deselect "Change always to the wired network when it's available" or something similar (I have LANG=es) |
| 20:52.05 | Guest1348 | i still wonder why may name is always changed from aitor to GuestSomething at every connection |
| 20:52.13 | mtnbman | Guest1348 ok but i want to use both wired and wifi |
| 20:52.49 | mtnbman | Guest1348 perhaps there is a default setting in your client |
| 20:54.05 | Guest1348 | nothing strange when i type Ctrl+S |
| 20:55.44 | Guest1348 | going forward, if you are already connected to the wireless device, wicd will ignore the wired interface if you disable this option |
| 20:56.46 | Guest1348 | this is a guess, i didn't test it |
| 21:02.53 | brocashelm | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkFNMEk0xn8 |
| 21:03.26 | brocashelm | remember watching this video when it first hit. devuan is being mentioned here as a viable non-systemd alternative to debian/ubuntu/mint |
| 21:04.07 | brocashelm | ignore the "specific term"; video gets pretty technical with breaking down systemd's spaghetti code, plus other poetteringshit "inventions" |
| 21:08.03 | *** join/#devuan mtnman (~user@208-38-202-34.mammothnetworks.com) |
| 21:08.36 | mtnman | helo |
| 21:08.37 | mtnman | ok i that option was deselected and when i connected to wifi the wired connection was dropped. |
| 21:13.46 | Guest1348 | so, is it okay now? |
| 21:14.57 | mtnman | no it is not ok. wired connection is dropped every time i connect to wifi. since i am ssh'd into that machine, i have to reboot everytime. |
| 21:16.52 | Guest1348 | do you mean that you need to link it up again? |
| 21:17.48 | mtnman | i am ssh'd into the machine that is running wicd. everytime that box connects to wifi, i lose the wired connection and have to reboot to reagain that wired connection. |
| 21:17.53 | mtnman | is that clear? |
| 21:18.19 | Guest1348 | yes |
| 21:20.51 | gnarface | Guest1348: "aitor" is already a registered name so it boots you off it. if you're the one that registered, you just need to authenticate with NickServ within 30s of connecting to freenode |
| 21:21.08 | *** join/#devuan Weeezy (~Weazzy@72-12-73-107.static.firstlight.net) |
| 21:21.33 | *** join/#devuan Weeezy (~Weazzy@72-12-73-107.static.firstlight.net) |
| 21:21.58 | gnarface | mtnman: did you read Guest1348's tip about setting the wicd preferences not to automatically change to wifi when available or whatever it is? (i don't use wicd myself, but if it doesn't do what you want there are alternatives) |
| 21:22.49 | Guest1348 | gnarface: thanks |
| 21:23.01 | Guest1348 | yes, i'm the one who registered this name |
| 21:23.18 | gnarface | Guest1348: /msg NickServ help |
| 21:23.41 | Guest1348 | ok |
| 21:23.53 | mtnman | Guest1348 you need to /msch nickserv id <password> |
| 21:24.01 | mtnman | oops /msg nickserv... |
| 21:25.15 | *** join/#devuan luser977 (~resuuser@188.27.70.107) |
| 21:30.06 | *** join/#devuan aitor_ (~aitor@97.83-213-108.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 21:30.12 | mtnman | gnarface: yes it was already set that way |
| 21:30.30 | aitor_ | hi again |
| 21:30.31 | mtnman | i tried reconnecting wifi and wired was dropped again... |
| 21:30.37 | mtnman | helo |
| 21:31.13 | aitor_ | gnarface: thanks :) |
| 21:31.28 | mtnman | aitor_ wb |
| 21:32.44 | aitor_ | wb? |
| 21:32.54 | mtnman | welcome back |
| 21:32.56 | aitor_ | willl be? warner brothers? |
| 21:33.03 | aitor_ | ok |
| 21:33.22 | mtnman | no luck with wired network |
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| 21:36.23 | gnarface | aitor_: didn't you make the initial wicd version, or was that someone else named a*? |
| 21:36.49 | gnarface | could have sworn wicd was contributed by someone who used to hang out here |
| 21:36.54 | aitor_ | no, i nerver worked on wicd |
| 21:37.02 | gnarface | maybe it was a different aitor |
| 21:37.10 | gnarface | is that a common name? |
| 21:37.13 | mtnman | alternat aitor |
| 21:37.18 | mtnman | alternate.. |
| 21:37.49 | aitor_ | no, it's not a common name |
| 21:37.57 | aitor_ | it's basque |
| 21:38.32 | gnarface | mtnman: anyway, that's a common complaint about wicd but it is by design and i don't know how to turn it off... some people just use a different gui tool like connman or networkManager, but personally i just type up my interfaces file by hand |
| 21:39.52 | gnarface | mtnman: look for a checkbox like Guest1348 (aitor_) suggested, and if it's not there but you're on ascii, check to see if the beowulf one is better maybe |
| 21:40.11 | mtnman | gnarface i used to do manual connecty, but lately have been using wicd because it is default on some distros i have been using |
| 21:40.57 | mtnman | i am on ascii. i tried installing beowulf on this arm board but was unsuccessful. the arm images are kind of a pain. |
| 21:41.01 | gnarface | mtnman: i think the design focus was "do what i mean" for people who don't multi-home their laptop network setup :-p |
| 21:41.50 | gnarface | mtnman: (the primary complaint, i assume being "hey, i enabled the wifi so why is it still sending data over the wire??" |
| 21:41.51 | gnarface | ) |
| 21:41.57 | aitor_ | mtnman: wicd will disappear in Chimaera, because python-gtk2 will be no longer mantained |
| 21:41.59 | mtnman | it seems a common use case to want two interfaces |
| 21:42.11 | aitor_ | wicd-gtk, at list |
| 21:42.15 | gnarface | mtnman: yea but not for people who don't type their own network config |
| 21:42.22 | gnarface | mtnman: it's more of a server task |
| 21:44.28 | mtnman | gnarface this is a useless debate, but i think that two interfaces is a common need, for example to share an internet connection |
| 21:45.11 | *** join/#devuan Weeezie (~Weazzy@72-12-73-107.static.firstlight.net) |
| 21:45.17 | mtnman | well if wicd will be deprecated, i suppose i will wean myself from it. |
| 21:45.45 | gnarface | mtnman: i don't disagree that there should be something better, it was just much easier for me to make myself better instead |
| 21:45.57 | mtnman | goes off to edit /etc/network/interfaces |
| 21:49.19 | aitor_ | mtnman: are you using bridge-utils? |
| 21:51.37 | mtnman | aitor_ not that i know of. |
| 21:52.24 | mason | bridge-utils aren't strictly necessary for a firewall, especially if he's got two interfaces. |
| 21:52.45 | mason | Doing a firewall with one interface seems like the height of perilous. |
| 21:56.27 | aitor_ | need to go, time to dinner |
| 21:56.31 | aitor_ | see you :) |
| 21:56.40 | mason | Not if I see you first! =grin= |
| 21:56.42 | mason | bbiab as well |
| 21:58.03 | *** join/#devuan Cobratek (~Cobratek@63.140.120.2) |
| 21:58.18 | Cobratek | -.- |
| 21:58.33 | Cobratek | ping |
| 21:59.24 | mtnman | pong |
| 21:59.36 | Cobratek | :) |
| 21:59.48 | Cobratek | I'm a bit suck |
| 21:59.50 | Cobratek | stuc |
| 22:00.06 | Cobratek | old rusty *nix skillz |
| 22:01.07 | Cobratek | I'm old school been around the block once or twice: I've got a working install with broken X because AMD |
| 22:01.33 | Cobratek | So I need to install the nonfree AMD packages yes? |
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| 22:04.07 | Cobratek | I can mount -o the 4g ISO just fine, I need to know where to find the files to install. |
| 22:05.08 | Cobratek | Apparently the debian installer forgets it was installed from a USB stick and wants a non-existent CD when I try to install anything manually |
| 22:05.40 | Cobratek | I mostly have to work offline hence the 4G installer .... |
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| 22:13.11 | fsmithred | Cobratek, does it fail to find the files if you insert the usb stick when it asks for the CD? |
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| 22:13.46 | Cobratek | yep - just keeps asking for the C |
| 22:13.48 | Cobratek | D |
| 22:14.11 | fsmithred | I suppose you could symlink your mounted iso to /dev/cdrom or wherever it's looking |
| 22:14.52 | fsmithred | or symlink to where the usb is mounted. I've done that during installation with a buggy installer. |
| 22:14.54 | Cobratek | Been there tried that - the mounted ISO looks like a different label than what it's looking for |
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| 22:15.49 | fsmithred | packages are in /pool |
| 22:16.38 | Cobratek | I'm well familiar with apt so I think I can install them once I locate them |
| 22:16.42 | fsmithred | maybe apt-cdrom add <mounted iso> |
| 22:16.53 | bernte | Hi - I have problems contacting auto.mirror.devuan.org to update my system - is that expected? |
| 22:17.07 | fsmithred | bernte, yes. Use deb.devuan.org instead |
| 22:17.25 | bernte | fsmithred: ok - will try that ... thanks. |
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| 22:17.55 | bernte | Is that temporary, or a permanent change? |
| 22:17.55 | Cobratek | fsmithred, good one, wish I thought of it. |
| 22:18.39 | fsmithred | permanent change. |
| 22:18.48 | Cobratek | anyway- bbl playing the dual boot game - so much better than swap the floppy, that game sucked. |
| 22:19.13 | fsmithred | we only kept auto.mirror around while jessie was still supported, because that's what the installer isos used. |
| 22:19.23 | fsmithred | lol |
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| 22:20.26 | mtnman | fsmithered hello, i have been attempting to use the concatenable bowulf arm images, but have been uable to achieve boot. |
| 22:21.00 | mtnman | is stuck on ascii |
| 22:21.45 | mtnman | suppose i could dist-upgrade, but would like to start with a fresh beowulf image. |
| 22:23.52 | golinux | Try #devuan-arm |
| 22:24.35 | golinux | There is also the forum https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=24 |
| 22:25.28 | mtnman | golinux yes that is wehre i discovered that fsmithered is an arm authority. i tried all the stuff in that thread and have not been able to produce a bootable image for my board. |
| 22:25.56 | mtnman | figured since i saw him on this channel i'd just ask him. |
| 22:27.06 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:27.44 | fsmithred | I'm an authority on posting stuff that someone gives me and even moving around images on the server. |
| 22:27.57 | fsmithred | I know nothing about arm |
| 22:28.09 | mtnman | oh ok i saw you were asking people to test thae arm images. |
| 22:28.20 | *** join/#devuan Cobratek (~Cobratek@63.140.120.2) |
| 22:28.38 | fsmithred | yeah, because the person who made the images didn't have an account on the forum at that time |
| 22:28.46 | mtnman | oic |
| 22:29.20 | fsmithred | you looked at the installer images? |
| 22:29.25 | Cobratek | :) I can install shtuff at will thanks, just have to chase down the rest of the packages I need, AMD stuff went in perfectly thanks :) |
| 22:29.46 | fsmithred | cool |
| 22:31.33 | Cobratek | for reference: apt-cdrom add /pathtoiso was key |
| 22:31.49 | Cobratek | too easy |
| 22:32.07 | Cobratek | but appreciated nonetheless |
| 22:32.11 | fsmithred | way cool. I did something like that with suse 10.0 |
| 22:32.25 | mtnman | i've tried several images but the concatenation thing doesn't seem to work for me. |
| 22:32.48 | fsmithred | I don't know what that is. |
| 22:33.18 | Cobratek | cat ? |
| 22:33.41 | mtnman | the arm images have a base file and a device-specific part that must be concatenated to get a bootable image. |
| 22:34.10 | mtnman | for beowulf, that is. |
| 22:34.14 | fsmithred | Do you know the link for the community-made images? |
| 22:34.25 | mtnman | no |
| 22:34.53 | fsmithred | I'll find it |
| 22:35.19 | ShorTie | what board are you using mtnman if i can ask ?? |
| 22:35.27 | mtnman | BBB |
| 22:40.13 | mtnman | ShorTie: beaglebone black |
| 22:41.22 | fsmithred | mtnman, arm-file.devuan.org |
| 22:41.53 | fsmithred | oh |
| 22:41.57 | fsmithred | no BBB there |
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| 22:42.31 | mtnman | hmmm. |
| 22:44.59 | mtnman | fsmithered: thanks anyhow. |
| 22:48.15 | mtnman | goes afk for a phone call |
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| 23:22.03 | ShorTie | arm-file.devuan.org don't work |
| 23:22.26 | ShorTie | This site cant be reached |
| 23:42.02 | gnarface | ShorTie: arm-files* |
| 23:47.28 | fsmithred | yeah, there's more than one file |
