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| 04:03.14 | ruscal | hi |
| 04:03.18 | ruscal | anyone around ? |
| 04:04.08 | silverpower | No. |
| 04:04.11 | silverpower | :P |
| 04:04.37 | ruscal | hehe |
| 04:05.10 | ruscal | ive been thrown in the deep end by my boss :( |
| 04:05.29 | silverpower | Oh? |
| 04:06.52 | silverpower | The "here's (impossible project), bang it out by 6pm tomorrow, kthxbye" thrown into the deep end? |
| 04:07.36 | ruscal | nah hes given me time but asap is best its just something ive never done before |
| 04:08.03 | ruscal | weve got this product the company makes that they want to run embedded linux on , its a telecommunications product |
| 04:08.33 | ruscal | running a PPC 82XX processor |
| 04:09.11 | ruscal | he wants me to use buildroot to build up a dev toolset of gcc uclibc binutils busbox and a rootfs |
| 04:09.34 | ruscal | the problems not so much using buildroot but deciding what versions of gcc binutils uclibc etc are best to use |
| 04:10.32 | ruscal | he said hes tried doing it before but it craps out and he was just selecting versions at random because he doesnt have any sort of measure to decide whats best |
| 04:10.37 | ruscal | so its been handed to me to do |
| 04:10.41 | silverpower | So you need to build a cross-compile toolchain, then build the OS image. Got it. I don't envy you, it's hard work. Fun if you're doing it as a hobby... |
| 04:11.29 | ruscal | id rather go back to yesturday morning right now, i had the day off as it was my graduation ceremony for uni |
| 04:11.32 | ruscal | that was an easy day |
| 04:11.45 | silverpower | Heh. |
| 04:13.44 | ruscal | ive also gotta do it for linux 2.6.14 or .15 headers which i dont think buildroot has an option for so ive got to find out if thats going to cause any sort of grief |
| 04:14.02 | silverpower | what's this buildroot tool? Distro-specific? |
| 04:14.42 | ruscal | buildroot.uclibc.org |
| 04:15.12 | ruscal | its a bunch of makefile scripts that automate the building of gcc uclibc binutils busybox and generates the rootfs |
| 04:15.31 | ruscal | dont think its distro specific but im going to be running it on fedora core 3 |
| 04:15.45 | silverpower | x86 or ppc32 host? |
| 04:15.52 | ruscal | x86 |
| 04:15.56 | ruscal | dell server |
| 04:16.02 | ruscal | xeon 3ghz thing |
| 04:16.10 | silverpower | That makes things more difficult. |
| 04:16.15 | ruscal | whys that ? |
| 04:16.30 | ruscal | because its x86 and i gotta compile for ppc ? |
| 04:17.18 | silverpower | Yeah. If/when I fiddle with the Walnut (405GP) I have on hand, I'd do all the work on my Powerbook so I have a known good PPC environment. |
| 04:17.57 | silverpower | That, and if I build stuff correctly, I can run the binaries on the host to make sure they're sane. |
| 04:19.07 | silverpower | And Fedora uses bleeding-edge compilers that they inflict on their users. All prerelease, all dangerous. |
| 04:19.47 | silverpower | They couldn't care less if the dev tools work, if it builds they're happy, I've noticed. |
| 04:20.23 | silverpower | What you're attempting is not impossible, but is made difficult by complications inherent in your tools. |
| 04:20.52 | ruscal | well thats another thing i was wondering is if the gcc compiler and libraries on this fedora core 3 is making things crap out |
| 04:21.23 | silverpower | ruscal: look up gcc 2.96 sometime. That's the crap that Fedora pulls regularly. |
| 04:22.36 | ruscal | full of bugs is it ? |
| 04:23.15 | silverpower | ruscal: Yep. They were using a CVS compiler in the middle of a *huge* change in the GCC internals. |
| 04:24.48 | ruscal | that fits with what ive heard about redhat being the microsoft of the linux world |
| 04:25.03 | silverpower | The code wasn't ready for production, but RedHat used it anyway. |
| 04:25.51 | silverpower | There are fundamental differences, but Redhat is nearly as sloppy as MS. Only reason they're not sloppier is because upstream has higher standards. |
| 04:27.51 | silverpower | (There's a rumor that a Fedora Core dev attempted to push CVS-gaim, especially 2.0-CVS, into inclusion with the main distro. Not sure at all if it's true, but it sounds like something they'd attempt.) |
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| 04:29.45 | silverpower | (If you're not aware, gaim CVS code has the potential to really really hose IM accounts, which is why their devs frown upon CVS gaim releases and non-devs using CVS code.) |
| 04:31.37 | silverpower | So that's why I would recommend using *anything* but RH/FC and derivatives. |
| 04:32.26 | silverpower | Even ~arch Gentoo (with all experimental stuff unmasked) is more stable and sane than this crap, which should tell you something. |
| 04:32.46 | ruscal | i think im stuck with fedora as they are developing the application to run on the PPC product on this server |
| 04:33.03 | silverpower | *ouch*. |
| 04:33.13 | ruscal | like its not my call to what os we use |
| 04:33.43 | ruscal | and i think theyve done a fair bit of stuff using this fedora 3 setup already so they wouldnt listen to me saying hey lets change it to make my life easier |
| 04:34.27 | silverpower | Or what distribution. Short of proving to them that FC is incapable of performing the task as stated in a sane manner, you're screwed, I'm afraid. |
| 04:36.51 | ruscal | :( |
| 04:37.16 | silverpower | I'd attempt to use a Gentoo-based sandbox, if I can. That way, I'd know I was starting from a sane set of tools. Then I'd build the cross-compiler within the sandbox, and go from there. |
| 04:38.46 | silverpower | It'd be slower than attempting to do everything within FC3, but short of that, I wouldn't be assured of a sane set of cross-compile tools and sane build environment. |
| 04:40.01 | silverpower | Also, even if it builds under FC3, toolchain quirks will contanimate your cross toolchain, and in turn possibly contanimate your firmware. |
| 04:43.35 | silverpower | This way, if something goes wrong, I can't blame my tools. Otherwise, I'd end up shrugging my shoulders and saying "Dunno. Not a whole lot I can do about broken toolchains. Not even Ken Thompson could do much about that." |
| 04:45.19 | silverpower | I usually tell people who insist upon this sort of thing "You can have it done the way you want it done, or you can have it work. Choose." |
| 04:46.28 | silverpower | Of course, YMMV, don't do this if you like your job, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. |
| 04:47.09 | silverpower | That said, you want to know the versions of my known good toolchain? |
| 04:49.14 | silverpower | (all use Gentoo patches that are known good and stable) GCC 3.4.4, glibc 2.3.5, binutils 2.16.1, headers 2.6.11. |
| 04:49.23 | silverpower | All on ppc. |
| 04:50.23 | silverpower | (oh, and busybox is v1.00 if I chose to install it.) |
| 04:51.44 | silverpower | Perhaps this should help give you an idea of what a sane toolchain should look like. |
| 04:59.41 | ruscal | ive just been searching the web for info and stuff didnt look here for a while |
| 05:00.13 | ruscal | it looks like most ppl use binutils 2.16.1 and headers 2.6.12 so maybe thats a good starting point for me |
| 05:00.30 | ruscal | and i know they want gcc 4.0.0 or upwards here |
| 05:00.35 | silverpower | It's all good. Yeah, that's a pretty good combo. |
| 05:00.37 | ruscal | so thats another one thats locked inish |
| 05:01.50 | silverpower | 4.0.2 would be your friend, then - in my quasi-experimental Gentoo sandbox (stable Gentoo as the host), I use GCC 4.0.2 and glibc 2.3.6, and it works wonderfully. |
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| 07:57.32 | ruscal | has anyone had this error pop up before when using buildroot targeting a PPC platform? |
| 07:57.33 | ruscal | /lib/gcc/powerpc-linux-uclibc/4.0.2/include -DNDEBUG -fpic -c adjtimex.c -o adjtimex.o |
| 07:57.33 | ruscal | adjtimex.c:14: error: '__adjtimex' aliased to undefined symbol 'adjtimex' |
| 07:57.33 | ruscal | adjtimex.c:15: error: 'ntp_adjtime' aliased to undefined symbol 'adjtimex' |
| 07:57.33 | ruscal | make[5]: *** [adjtimex.o] Error 1 |
| 07:57.34 | ruscal | im using buildroot with binutils 2.16.1 headers 2.6.12 gcc 4.0.2 selected |
| 07:57.36 | ruscal | its being built on a x86 xeon dell server running fedora core 3 |
| 07:57.38 | ruscal | with gcc 3.4.2-6 binutils 2.15.92.0.2 glibc-2.3.3 |
| 08:14.10 | ruscal | could it be just a matter of the versions of gcc ulibc and binutils arnt compatible and to try a different combo ? anyone ? |
| 08:24.14 | silverpower | 3.4.2? 2.3.3? Goddess, those are *ancient*. |
| 08:25.24 | silverpower | If this weren't FC, I'd just recommend rebuilding the x86 toolchain a couple times over (to purge it), then starting on building cross-compilers. |
| 08:26.08 | ohsix | dont forget to load up ccache and save yourself some time |
| 08:26.32 | silverpower | Trust me, you're going to have no end of problems if you let the old toolchain contanimate the new or cross toolchains. |
| 08:30.59 | silverpower | just dd up a 2GB loopback, make it ext3, loop-mount it, install a bootstrap distro with a trusted toolchain, bind /dev, /proc and /sys, chroot in, set up the environment, and start doing up your cross toolchain. |
| 08:32.06 | silverpower | I could do that half-asleep. It's not that hard, of course, you may have to worry about somebody complaining about you using a sandbox for your dev environment. |
| 08:35.42 | franklinyang | i'm having some issues with writing to OMAP5912 registers |
| 08:35.46 | franklinyang | it's giving me seg faults |
| 08:35.56 | franklinyang | can someone offer some insight?? |
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| 11:44.29 | overseer | quick quesion -- is there a cheap source for an adapter to go from the isa pc104 connector (male) to standard ISA female... allowing me to hook a standard isa card (or two) to my x86 pc104 mainboard? |
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| 12:01.57 | overseer | http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts-eth10-h.htm -- cheapest ethernet i've found for pc104. i was thinking a $20 adapter board, and a $5 NE2000 ISA board might be half the cost |
| 12:14.03 | overseer | http://www.arstech.com/cgi-bin/ccp51/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&affl=&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=isapc104 -- here's the adapter board i was thinking of -- completely passive connections... |
| 12:14.25 | overseer | but it's $50! -- for $9 more i get a complete board... doesn't someone make a $20 passive board? |
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| 13:26.42 | yodar | hi |
| 13:29.33 | yodar | i have a question |
| 13:32.16 | yodar | im looking for a lcd supplier. Does some1 knows a lcd supplier with low prices ? |
| 13:42.41 | prpplague | yodar: www.earthlcd.com |
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| 13:48.37 | yodar | thx |
| 13:50.53 | yodar | the site is ok, but im more looking for mobile cog type lcds |
| 14:19.38 | jbevren | ohh |
| 14:19.41 | jbevren | possibly so |
| 14:21.33 | jbevren | did you just shower? |
| 14:21.34 | jbevren | hehe |
| 14:32.03 | GPSFan | lol.. |
| 14:37.40 | agaffney | ooh, my pci risers are coming today |
| 14:37.59 | agaffney | I got some quad-port PCI NICs, but they're about 2x the length of the board :P |
| 14:39.08 | agaffney | and longer than the SCSI enclosures that I'm using for cases |
| 14:39.08 | r2d2 | agaffney: where did you get the NICs? |
| 14:39.20 | agaffney | r2d2: someone in #-sparc sent them to me for free :P |
| 14:39.42 | agaffney | free hardware is the best kind |
| 14:40.01 | r2d2 | I was hoping to make one or both of the dht boards into routers, so I took a quick look for some |
| 14:40.55 | agaffney | yeah, I was thinking about doing that with one of mine |
| 14:43.05 | r2d2 | if I can't find any, I'll be tossing in one wifi card and one NIC, so I can plug a switch in, but I'd rather not |
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| 21:36.12 | Shelnaria | Hello everyone |
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| 21:40.06 | Shelnaria | Anyone here familiar with the juicebox units? Just have a simple question if possible. |
| 21:46.46 | agaffney | there are a few people playing with them |
| 21:47.11 | Shelnaria | I was just curious about the battery life span playing mp3's |
| 21:47.39 | Shelnaria | I picked one up for my daughter yesterday and helped her load it up with mp3's |
| 21:48.01 | Shelnaria | Just wondering how long before I will need to change batteries. :) |
| 21:50.03 | agaffney | rechargeable batteries are your friend |
| 21:50.18 | Shelnaria | Been reading with interest the hack site as well. I think its a great little device. Would be cool if they hack it to use any mpg/avi :) |
| 21:52.16 | silverpower | Indeed, but good JBs are hard to find. |
| 21:52.45 | Shelnaria | Oddly enough I got it for her because ipods are so danged expensive. She's 10 and loves it. And it sounds great. Just have to remember to redo her music at 128 |
| 21:53.23 | silverpower | iPods aren't exactly the greatest players anyway. |
| 21:53.33 | Shelnaria | I tried to find the ones without an LED but I idnt know what difference it would make. |
| 21:53.42 | Shelnaria | So I picked up the ones they had |
| 21:53.47 | Shelnaria | 10.00 a pop :) |
| 21:54.01 | Shelnaria | plus 20 for the mp3 kit |
| 21:54.25 | Shelnaria | and I had several 512mb sd cards from the camera I have so it was a no barainer for me heh |
| 21:54.48 | Shelnaria | himd? |
| 21:54.51 | Shelnaria | What are those? |
| 21:55.04 | silverpower | MDs with 1GB of capacity. |
| 21:55.08 | Shelnaria | Oh |
| 21:55.23 | Shelnaria | Sorry. I dont know alot about stuff like that. |
| 21:55.55 | Shelnaria | I found the linux hacker site when I did a search on juciebox and they had a link to this channel. |
| 21:56.50 | silverpower | This is one of the few channels I frequent regularly (aside from #gentoo-ppc). I love this place. |
| 21:57.03 | Shelnaria | Cool. |
| 21:57.34 | Shelnaria | I hope I aint buggin everyone with my chatter. |
| 21:57.39 | Shelnaria | :) |
| 21:59.46 | agaffney | not like you interrupted a lively conversation :P |
| 22:00.12 | jbevren | shut up! |
| 22:00.14 | jbevren | nono just kidding |
| 22:00.15 | Shelnaria | lol |
| 22:02.07 | Shelnaria | Mattel says 6 hours of continous use on a set of batteries. Not too bad |
| 22:02.22 | Shelnaria | And thats video so audio should be a bit more I would think |
| 22:03.18 | jbevren | heh |
| 22:03.20 | Shelnaria | It sounds Excellent! |
| 22:03.22 | jbevren | sounds kinda bulky tho |
| 22:03.45 | jbevren | especially when compared to the ipod shuffle ;-) |
| 22:03.46 | Shelnaria | Bout the size of a cassette walkman |
| 22:03.58 | jbevren | yeah, I got a JB for $5 at a liquidation sale |
| 22:04.01 | jbevren | just didnt get the mp3 kit |
| 22:04.12 | Shelnaria | I got the mp3 kit for 20.00 |
| 22:04.34 | Shelnaria | Saw that and was like hmmm... 30.00 for this or 99.99 for an ipod |
| 22:06.07 | Shelnaria | I bought 2 of the JB. I think I will go tommorrow and get 2 more just to store. |
| 22:06.40 | Shelnaria | Maybe I can make my own MP3 Kit. |
| 22:06.44 | Shelnaria | heh |
| 22:08.51 | silverpower | And the $99 iPod only has 512mb. |
| 22:08.58 | Shelnaria | yea. |
| 22:09.07 | silverpower | Fine if you encode at low bitrates and only CD rips that aren't live. |
| 22:09.16 | Shelnaria | I got 2 512mb sd cards as well as 3 or 4 128's |
| 22:10.04 | Shelnaria | Yea. I think the old version of the mp3 software on the JB would allow it. |
| 22:10.08 | Shelnaria | the ones I have dont. |
| 22:10.10 | Shelnaria | :/ |
| 22:11.16 | Shelnaria | So 128 and under works |
| 22:11.41 | Shelnaria | The only thing I dont really like is the cart placement |
| 22:12.22 | Shelnaria | They could have recessed it a bit better. Kinda like the Gameboys |
| 22:14.23 | Shelnaria | O.o |
| 22:14.30 | Shelnaria | 1000$ headphoes? |
| 22:14.34 | silverpower | Preferably, they should be foldable so I can toss them in my backpack without worrying about them being crushed by his textbooks. |
| 22:14.45 | Shelnaria | Doog god were they made of gold? |
| 22:14.51 | silverpower | Yep, ~$1000USD. |
| 22:14.53 | Shelnaria | hehe |
| 22:15.13 | silverpower | No, they had a spatialization processor inside. |
| 22:15.36 | Shelnaria | Sort of like a 5.1 dolby built in? |
| 22:15.40 | silverpower | Yep. |
| 22:15.43 | Shelnaria | Cool |
| 22:15.54 | Shelnaria | Still 1000. Wow. |
| 22:16.00 | silverpower | Good cables, and very solid construction. |
| 22:16.38 | silverpower | They'd taken some abuse, but they still worked and sounded wonderful. |
| 22:16.43 | Shelnaria | I think my family would have me committed if I told them I had spent a grand on a set of headphones though. |
| 22:17.25 | jbevren | spatialization processor |
| 22:17.29 | jbevren | or in plain english |
| 22:17.46 | jbevren | a dsp that screws up the panning and placement of acoustic objects in the acoustic space |
| 22:17.53 | jbevren | I hate spatialization :) |
| 22:17.57 | jbevren | it gives me headaches |
| 22:18.01 | Shelnaria | Heh. |
| 22:19.16 | silverpower | jbevren: It can be poorly done, but it depends on the source. I used one of my Platinum NGE DVDs to test with, and it sounded nearly as good as his home theater setup. |
| 22:19.46 | jbevren | ah, so its a surround spatializer |
| 22:19.52 | jbevren | thats better than cheap spatialization |
| 22:19.58 | jbevren | grr I cant type the dang word :) |
| 22:20.15 | jbevren | ist nice to see that cpu still works :) |
| 22:21.01 | Shelnaria | lol |
| 22:21.20 | silverpower | Yes. it's meant for use on 5.1-style sources, not expanding a stereo source to fill a virtual sound stage (which, as he showed me, sounded like *shit*...) |
| 22:22.12 | silverpower | If you're going to use a stereo source, you shouldn't do any spatialization processing. Period. It'll sound like utter crap. |
| 22:22.58 | silverpower | In both home theater and headphone scenarios. |
| 22:24.11 | silverpower | Anyway, anybody want to give me a recommend for a set of $50-100 headphones that'll take some abuse and not sound like utter crap? |
| 22:25.19 | silverpower | Because these -150s are just a set of cheap Walkman speakers, but with better cables and a somewhat better enclosure. |
| 22:30.28 | Shelnaria | I gotta run everyone. Talk at ya laters! |
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| 23:37.58 | [score] | jbevren: |
| 23:45.12 | *** join/#edev [score] (n=stopspy@c-67-169-46-183.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:45.31 | *** part/#edev [score] (n=stopspy@c-67-169-46-183.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.12 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-151-116-129.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 23:51.50 | sunrunner20|slee | note to self |
| 23:51.52 | sunrunner20|slee | never do that again |
| 23:52.03 | sunrunner20|slee | *gets self a non ghetto cap discharg circuit |
| 23:59.28 | silverpower | owowowow. Not fun. |