| 01:08.02 | youam | prpplague: argh! i just found out who is writing this small amounts of data all the time... |
| 01:08.30 | youam | [ 52.890000] PID 972: do_execve( "/sbin/klogd", ... ) |
| 01:08.31 | youam | [ 52.890000] PID 972: forked new child 973 |
| 01:08.31 | youam | [ 52.900000] PID 973: forked new child 974 |
| 01:08.42 | youam | [ 52.030000] PID 974: sys_write( fd=3, char *..., count=73 ); |
| 01:08.43 | youam | [...] |
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| 02:49.52 | MonMotha | T0mW: what will you be doing for your W2 work? |
| 02:50.54 | CP|Home | prpplague: did you ping me? |
| 02:51.06 | T0mW | MonMotha: major overhaul of an old system design: gut & rework the electronics systems, replace the 80C188 cpu with an ARM processor, port the application software (assembly lang) over to the new processor. |
| 02:51.21 | T0mW | CP|Home: he did, mucho hours agao |
| 02:51.59 | T0mW | MonMotha: about a years worth of heavy work |
| 02:52.10 | CP|Home | seesh |
| 02:52.18 | T0mW | CP|Home: heh |
| 03:00.11 | T0mW | MonMotha: I need "stuff", so I've got to consider selling my soul to the devil |
| 03:00.25 | T0mW | :( no more playtime |
| 03:00.31 | MonMotha | T0mW: well, given what I know of you, and what I believe to be your experience, I'd say your worth 6 figures, but you gotta convince the people hiring you of that, which is tough when you've been freelancing a long time |
| 03:01.20 | T0mW | MonMotha: yeah, I'd been told about 10 years ago that my type of work was going for about $130K |
| 03:01.43 | T0mW | MonMotha: I've been out of the loop for so long now. |
| 03:01.52 | MonMotha | well, I'm hardly in the loop myelf |
| 03:02.42 | T0mW | heh |
| 03:02.48 | T0mW | MonMotha: time to get "looped" |
| 03:03.18 | MonMotha | I've got another year to go on that |
| 03:12.56 | T0mW | MonMotha: masters degree program? |
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| 04:01.59 | MonMotha | T0mW: no, 1 more year until the BS is finally done |
| 04:02.13 | MonMotha | and that may or may not have multiple meanings |
| 04:02.23 | T0mW | heh, the BS degree |
| 04:02.36 | T0mW | spelled "b-u-l-l" heh |
| 04:04.46 | MonMotha | at least the school I'm going to lets you actually learn stuff on your own in addition to the classwork |
| 04:04.53 | MonMotha | the lab doors are almost always open |
| 04:04.58 | MonMotha | and I make full use of them |
| 04:07.24 | jbevren | haha |
| 04:07.30 | jbevren | I love the last comment on slashdot about the sco post |
| 04:07.34 | jbevren | SCO is that company that was never relavant to the computer industry even in the best of times. And finally after not being able to create or innovate, they decided to litigate. And apparently they aren't even any good at that... |
| 05:12.34 | T0mW | jbevren: I've suspected that IBM would litigate and never capitulate (purchase SCOX), I'm happy to see SCO with their thingy buried in the dirt. |
| 05:26.54 | MonMotha | I will laugh if SCO ends up losing in court and IBM ends up owning them anyway |
| 05:33.04 | T0mW | MonMotha: that may happen, SCO has been sanctioned, they may find themselves defending a libel suit for bringing a frivilous lawsuit against IBM. It would have been one thing to bring charges against IBM and fight them out in court, then lose. But, they've made a lot of noise and probably hurt IBMs business? |
| 05:33.56 | MonMotha | T0mW: yeah, such an outcome would not surprise me |
| 05:33.58 | T0mW | There should be a penalty of some kind to recoup that legal expense |
| 05:34.09 | MonMotha | IBM dropping their patent claims against them says they're probably fairly sure of a major win |
| 05:34.26 | MonMotha | since IBM could have nailed them to the floor on patent claims (as they could anybody) no matter what |
| 05:35.03 | T0mW | IBM probably wanted to narrow the focus of the lawsuit |
| 05:35.59 | T0mW | MonMotha: wonder if the RedHat lawsuit and AutoZone will now go forward? |
| 05:36.43 | MonMotha | T0mW: yeah, I'm not sure what SCO was thinking |
| 05:37.10 | T0mW | MonMotha: I think I know, they were hoping that IBM would simply purchase them rather than fight |
| 05:37.45 | T0mW | MonMotha: did you read the judge's decision? |
| 05:37.49 | MonMotha | T0mW: not in full |
| 05:37.59 | T0mW | I did, it was good! |
| 05:38.02 | MonMotha | from what I heard, pretty much all bases were covered |
| 05:38.12 | MonMotha | an appeal of it should be difficult |
| 05:38.23 | T0mW | yeah, seems 80% of it was sanctioned |
| 05:38.54 | T0mW | a sanction is difficult to appeal, it means that the lawyers mis-behaved |
| 05:39.10 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 05:39.28 | T0mW | finally, maybe we can see this thing die? |
| 05:39.32 | MonMotha | that would be nice |
| 05:39.47 | MonMotha | I presume IBM's first move when the trial actually starts will be a motion for summary judgement |
| 05:39.56 | MonMotha | seeing as how there's really not much of the case left |
| 05:40.27 | T0mW | LOL, I wonder how SCO will spin this recent decision? |
| 05:40.37 | MonMotha | T0mW: should be interesting |
| 05:41.05 | T0mW | "oh, um, we did have a minor setback recently in our case against IBM, but we are confident that we will prevail on appeal" |
| 05:41.14 | T0mW | :P |
| 05:41.22 | MonMotha | T0mW: and how the hell do you find both the time and funds to do all the cool stuff that you do? |
| 05:41.31 | MonMotha | T0mW: I don't think that's spun enough for SCO |
| 05:41.38 | T0mW | Not married, without children |
| 05:41.52 | MonMotha | I'm sure they'll only mention the stuff they didn't get their face rubbed in and conveniently ignore all the stuff that's bad for them |
| 05:42.01 | MonMotha | T0mW: I guess - you got all your income from contract work in the past? |
| 05:42.06 | T0mW | yeah |
| 05:42.26 | T0mW | I'm trying to figure out just how to work this job thing out. |
| 05:44.04 | T0mW | The work is going to be 60 hours a week, most of the time. Big job and little time (one year). |
| 05:44.08 | MonMotha | wow |
| 05:44.14 | MonMotha | won't have much time for playing around |
| 05:44.23 | T0mW | a lot of new boards to design |
| 05:44.29 | MonMotha | 60hr/wk expectations should command a hefty salary |
| 05:45.00 | T0mW | the basic problem is to take code that was written for the 8070 processor, which now runs under 80C188, and port it to ARM ASM. |
| 05:45.19 | MonMotha | all written in ASM of course? |
| 05:45.31 | T0mW | 8070 ASM, yes. |
| 05:45.39 | T0mW | MonMotha: wait one |
| 05:45.54 | T0mW | me searches for 8070 sample code |
| 05:47.00 | MonMotha | yeah, I don't know 8070 |
| 05:47.38 | T0mW | http://rafb.net/paste/results/7d8OZx53.html |
| 05:48.46 | T0mW | it is a 16bit accumlator (EA) which can function as two 8 bit regs (E, A), a 16 bit temp register (T), two 16bit pointer registers (P2, P3). |
| 05:49.00 | T0mW | basically a 6502 on steriods |
| 05:49.13 | T0mW | coding is more 8080 like |
| 05:49.39 | T0mW | ASM lang is more like you took 8080 and 6502 and tossed them into a blender |
| 05:51.11 | T0mW | for example: ILD A, TIM150 would be like: MOV R1, #1 ; LDR R2, TIM150 ; ADD R1, R2, [R2] |
| 05:51.18 | T0mW | you get the idea, right? |
| 05:51.28 | T0mW | my arm asm sux |
| 05:51.53 | T0mW | err, ADD R1, [R2], R2 ? |
| 05:53.07 | T0mW | MonMotha: the problem was not so much as translating 8070 into sequences of ARM code, but the old system had a backplane in it (card slots) and a slooooow bus: 1600ns cycle time |
| 05:53.20 | T0mW | not many ARM processors will run bus cycles that low |
| 05:53.54 | MonMotha | heh, my ARM asm is very, very rusty |
| 05:53.58 | MonMotha | and I never knew it all that well |
| 05:54.14 | T0mW | MonMotha: mine is about to get much better, real fast! |
| 05:54.15 | MonMotha | hum... |
| 05:54.29 | MonMotha | could you handshake the backplane externally and use interrupts to handle the completion? |
| 05:54.38 | MonMotha | so use a micro or something to time the cycles |
| 05:54.46 | T0mW | yeah, if, the code was C |
| 05:54.52 | MonMotha | or heck, you could probably chuck it on a GAL |
| 05:54.59 | MonMotha | any reason you can't use C? |
| 05:55.07 | MonMotha | for the non-timing-critical stuff |
| 05:55.26 | T0mW | large amount of 8070 code, almost 500K lines of source |
| 05:55.45 | T0mW | MonMotha: he has been writing this thing for 26 years |
| 05:56.18 | MonMotha | so the plan is to just translate the assembly line by line into ARM? |
| 05:56.22 | MonMotha | no reimplementations? |
| 05:56.31 | T0mW | I moved him onto the 80C188 about 12..14 years ago, he never bothered to learn 80188 ASM, just kept coding in 8070 |
| 05:57.18 | T0mW | MonMotha: correct, also, unwind his banked memory scheme into using the MMU to give 8K "slots" of virtualization. |
| 05:57.45 | MonMotha | gotcha |
| 05:58.00 | MonMotha | you should still be able to do it |
| 05:58.01 | T0mW | he does 512K of SRAM inside about a 48K window |
| 05:58.34 | T0mW | yeah, the only killer was the bus cycle and he decided to throw the old bus away now. |
| 05:58.43 | MonMotha | use a micro or similar to time the handshaking on the bus (use a buffer to disconnect it from the CPU during the cycle) and either poll or use interrupts and just spin in the asm waiting for the cycle to end |
| 05:58.44 | T0mW | MonMotha: that gives me a lot of leeway |
| 05:58.47 | MonMotha | oh, if that's gone then no worries :) |
| 05:58.54 | T0mW | MonMotha: no, I'll go with SPI |
| 05:59.24 | T0mW | MonMotha: put an LPC2104 chip on each card and hook them onto the SPI circuit |
| 05:59.38 | MonMotha | that's probably a much more modern plan |
| 06:00.08 | T0mW | run the SPI under interrupt and create a "memory mapped I/O" similar to CAN |
| 06:00.14 | MonMotha | that'll wok |
| 06:00.40 | T0mW | MonMotha: I'm still scheming to see if I can stick Linux in there someplace, heh |
| 06:00.55 | MonMotha | well, if you're moving from a CPU that old, you should have plenty of extra time on a modern ARM :) |
| 06:01.48 | T0mW | possibly, he does an awful lot of hardware I/O throughout his code. He has no centralized I/O functions, he does it on the fly |
| 06:02.03 | T0mW | that might be a bitch to consolidate into driver calls |
| 06:02.06 | T0mW | ioctl |
| 06:02.35 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 06:02.44 | MonMotha | but if you have the ability, it'll make future maintainance easier |
| 06:02.56 | MonMotha | you've got the resources for the indirection |
| 06:03.02 | T0mW | on that code snippet: STATIO and TIMSUB is actually memory mapped hardware, not RAM |
| 06:04.25 | T0mW | MonMotha: yeah, but, how difficult would it be to access shared RAM space with linux (kernel sharing RAM / permissions with User processes) |
| 06:05.31 | T0mW | As much as I would like to, it doesn't offer any advantages. this is a working code system so all I need to do is put new arms & legs on it. |
| 06:06.43 | davidc__[2] | T0mW: uclinux? |
| 06:06.50 | davidc__[2] | T0mW: no memory protection there |
| 06:06.58 | T0mW | bah, memory fragmentation |
| 06:06.59 | MonMotha | T0mW: agreed, was just entertaining your idea |
| 06:07.02 | davidc__[2] | T0mW: just make the kernel not touch the peripherals that the code is hitting |
| 06:07.48 | T0mW | maybe something like RITA |
| 06:08.01 | T0mW | RTHAL |
| 06:10.05 | T0mW | well, first things first, I've got to get some idea on how the 'job' is to work, he doesn't want to do it as a W2 but keep it as a 1099 |
| 06:11.03 | MonMotha | T0mW: then quote him double what you want to make |
| 06:11.29 | T0mW | As a 1099, how is he going to pay? I will be working some days 10..15 hours, where am I going to be doing that? At his place of business, then spend an hour driving back home? |
| 06:12.00 | T0mW | MonMotha: heh, give him some negotiating room? :D |
| 06:12.00 | MonMotha | T0mW: you can at least write those off as expenses, or add travel reimbursement into the contract |
| 06:12.14 | MonMotha | T0mW: well, 2x what you want to make is standard for 1099 vs. W2 |
| 06:12.29 | T0mW | MonMotha: well, time traveling is billable |
| 06:12.30 | MonMotha | especially if your W2 job would include any real benefits (health insurance, etc.) |
| 06:12.35 | MonMotha | T0mW: that works, too |
| 06:13.37 | T0mW | I could use a large influx of money, devoting a year towards this would be ok |
| 06:14.06 | T0mW | If I could go back to what I'm doing now: goofing off a lot and making money |
| 06:23.14 | MonMotha | who couldn't use a large influx of money? |
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| 12:20.53 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
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| 13:59.13 | chouimat | moring |
| 14:10.58 | jbevren | mourning. |
| 14:10.59 | jbevren | heh |
| 14:11.05 | prpplague | howdy all |
| 14:11.59 | jbevren | Good Morning, Dave.(TM) |
| 14:13.41 | prpplague | whats cookin guys? |
| 14:14.04 | tuxmaniac | prpplague> mbuf is online |
| 14:14.25 | prpplague | tuxmaniac: well tell him to join the channel |
| 14:14.39 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 14:15.45 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=mbuf@59.92.81.32) |
| 14:15.55 | mbuf | prpplague, hi |
| 14:16.02 | prpplague | mbuf: greetings |
| 14:16.07 | mbuf | prpplague, howdy! |
| 14:16.08 | prpplague | mbuf: welcome to the channel |
| 14:16.13 | mbuf | prpplague, how are you ? thanks |
| 14:16.20 | prpplague | mbuf: hows the s3c2410 stuff doing? |
| 14:16.23 | prpplague | mbuf: good |
| 14:16.58 | mbuf | prpplague, not been working on it for some time ; doing some chinese learning and tamil documentation stuff |
| 14:17.11 | prpplague | ahh |
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| 14:22.21 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@svl-ext-proxy02.amd.com) |
| 14:22.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey |
| 14:22.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was getting worried |
| 14:22.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: whats up? |
| 14:23.23 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 15:11.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: everything ok? |
| 15:46.30 | CosmicPenguin | why is the uclibc ldd so horribly useful, and the standard gnu one so blowful? |
| 15:46.36 | *** join/#edev tuxmaniac (n=aanjhan@60.254.67.17) |
| 15:47.21 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:48.02 | agaffney | blowful? that's a new one :P |
| 16:04.52 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: a little help/ |
| 16:04.54 | CosmicPenguin | ? |
| 16:05.13 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: do you know of a smart way to build shared library support into a binary using the -nostdlib trick? |
| 16:05.28 | CosmicPenguin | I can't get this damn thing to work |
| 16:10.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sorry no |
| 16:11.31 | CosmicPenguin | I just don't know enough about how shared libraries work |
| 16:32.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i must admit alot of aspects of building shared libraries are black magic to me |
| 16:32.26 | CosmicPenguin | me too |
| 16:32.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've been concentrating so much on drivers as of late, that aspect has been neglected |
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| 16:57.41 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.68.20.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 16:57.58 | T0mW | good morning World |
| 16:58.50 | davidc__[2] | CosmicPenguin: you want shared lib support on something mmu less, right? |
| 16:59.28 | T0mW | anyone know of a good book, pdf, url about programming the ARM MMU? |
| 17:00.44 | CosmicPenguin | davidc__[2]: last time looked, i386 wasn't mmu less |
| 17:01.23 | davidc__[2] | CosmicPenguin: ah, I just assumed since you were using uclibc, you were using uclinux ;) |
| 17:01.31 | CosmicPenguin | oohh - dangerous assumption |
| 17:03.41 | prpplague | T0mW: the MMU is detailed in a document on the arm ltd web site |
| 17:03.46 | CosmicPenguin | You'll see lots of folks come through here trying to use uclibc on a variety of different MMU equiped processors |
| 17:04.16 | davidc__[2] | yup, however its original use - and what I use it for - is for use on non-mmu processors |
| 17:04.16 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: uclibc is good for just about anything |
| 17:04.29 | T0mW | prpplague: thanks |
| 17:04.30 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: that is in accurate |
| 17:04.41 | davidc__[2] | prpplague: er, wasn't it written for uclinux? |
| 17:04.59 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: written at the same time would be more accurate |
| 17:05.14 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: uclibc is simply a diet version of libx |
| 17:05.17 | prpplague | sorry libc |
| 17:05.41 | davidc__[2] | eh, wikipedia agrees with me :P but anyhow, who cares... |
| 17:05.53 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: url? |
| 17:05.59 | davidc__[2] | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UClibc |
| 17:06.28 | davidc__[2] | but anyhow - the reason I originally mentioned it is that on non-mmu platforms, it doesn't seem to support dynamic linking |
| 17:07.00 | davidc__[2] | so our solution was to roll our own application hosted linker - works really well for loading plugins on the fly |
| 17:07.08 | davidc__[2] | but its obviously not what CosmicPenguin was looking for,. |
| 17:07.10 | CosmicPenguin | Regardless of all that |
| 17:07.17 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: yea, the way that is worded probably works "uClibc was created to support uClinux" |
| 17:07.25 | CosmicPenguin | uclibc is used on MMU enabled machines - so my question was absolutely valid |
| 17:07.35 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: really not specifically for uclinux |
| 17:07.42 | davidc__[2] | CosmicPenguin: never said it wasn't ;) |
| 17:07.50 | prpplague | :D |
| 17:08.07 | davidc__[2] | prpplague: blah, sematics, semantics :P |
| 17:08.13 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: hehe |
| 17:10.05 | prpplague | davidc__[2]: what company was this solution done for? |
| 17:11.29 | davidc__[2] | none - the iPodLinux project |
| 17:12.45 | davidc__[2] | its BSD licensed, so you're all free to use if you want |
| 17:16.08 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:17.02 | davidc__[2] | eh, it'll work on anything arm based |
| 17:17.13 | davidc__[2] | its a separate lib, easy to work with |
| 17:17.35 | davidc__[2] | IIRC you just need to make one minor change to your build process to get some symbols stuffed into the bflt main executable |
| 17:17.40 | davidc__[2] | and all plugins are just bog standard elf |
| 17:19.07 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:23.36 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: did you see what andersee said in #uclibc? Thats how you fix the problem |
| 17:24.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, yea , i actually save it to a text file |
| 17:24.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: gonna add it to my notes page |
| 17:29.39 | CosmicPenguin | You actually have to do a -Wl,--dynamic-linker to pass it to ld |
| 17:29.42 | CosmicPenguin | but the concept is the same |
| 17:31.06 | CosmicPenguin | heh - still has a penguru.net e-mail on it |
| 17:31.41 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:32.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey i got a great idea, you and me, lets open a brew pub, f'd this embedded stuff, hehe |
| 17:32.23 | CosmicPenguin | no joke |
| 17:32.24 | CosmicPenguin | I'm ready |
| 17:32.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 17:33.49 | CosmicPenguin | Brew our own stuff, and augment it with the best beers from around the country |
| 17:34.05 | CosmicPenguin | Lefthand Milk Stout |
| 17:34.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh yea |
| 17:34.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hire some nice looking ladies to bartend |
| 17:35.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, get ones that are tech savy to carry on conversations with the customers, hehe |
| 17:35.52 | CosmicPenguin | Flat screen panel at every table so people can watch the games they want to |
| 17:36.10 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 17:47.20 | chouimat | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:51.31 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe yea thats ones of my favorites |
| 17:52.05 | prpplague | chouimat: oh i sooooo miss the selection of beer there in ottawa |
| 18:11.49 | chouimat | :) |
| 18:16.19 | prpplague | ahh to have a pint of rickerd |
| 18:16.21 | prpplague | ahh to have a pint of rickerds |
| 18:16.59 | chouimat | prpplague: ROFL http://ca.askmen.com/jokes/2006_jun/jun28.html |
| 18:18.27 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe cute |
| 18:19.33 | chouimat | prpplague: read jun27 ;) |
| 18:20.22 | prpplague | chouimat: have you seen explosm.net ? |
| 18:20.56 | chouimat | no |
| 18:21.02 | prpplague | that one is great |
| 18:21.08 | prpplague | chouimat: try it out |
| 18:21.16 | prpplague | chouimat: they have a movie sections that rocks |
| 18:21.29 | prpplague | chouimat: see the starwars and matrix stick movies |
| 18:21.58 | prpplague | chouimat: http://www.explosm.net/comics/583/ |
| 18:22.06 | chouimat | prpplague: ok will check later ... now I have to do the dishes ... after 2 weeks something smell bad in the kitchen |
| 18:22.59 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe |
| 18:23.05 | prpplague | chouimat: you are a true bachelor |
| 18:23.08 | chouimat | ROFL |
| 18:23.22 | chouimat | prpplague: I need a new gf soon ... |
| 18:24.34 | prpplague | s/gf/ho |
| 18:28.03 | chouimat | prpplague: quote of the day: God isn't dead, he just couldn't find a parking place. |
| 18:30.43 | prpplague | chouimat: http://www.explosm.net/movies/16/ |
| 18:36.54 | prpplague | chouimat: http://ca.askmen.com/jokes/2006_jun/jun23.html |
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| 21:08.29 | *** topic/#edev is #edev discussion for small embedded device development and hacking || http://www.elinux.org/wiki/ || http://www.hackaday.com || http://www.linux-hacker.net || I HATE INS AND DoHS every day and twice on sunday |
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