irclog2html for #edev on 20060710

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12:29.26prpplagueho ho
12:29.27prpplagueho
12:33.07sunrunner20grr
12:33.15sunrunner20my 6800U GPU is getting too hot
12:33.46*** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ
12:40.39sunrunner20heh
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14:15.10chouimatmorning
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14:45.21*** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@svl-ext-proxy01.amd.com)
15:01.19prpplagueCosmicPenguin: morning
15:02.15CosmicPenguinmorning
15:13.56CosmicPenguinprpplague: why doesn't buildroot make more use of the $(call) syntax?
16:00.29prpplagueCosmicPenguin: don't know
16:00.33prpplagueCosmicPenguin: why?
16:02.15prpplaguehehe it is sooo nice to be able to compile winblows apps on linux
16:02.21prpplaguejust wish i could test on it as well, hehe
16:02.29prpplaguebut i guess that would defeat the purpose
16:02.39jbevrenheh
16:02.44jbevrenwine is handy that way
16:02.46prpplagueguess i could try vmware
16:02.50prpplaguejbevren: true
16:03.11prpplaguejbevren: hey
16:03.16prpplaguejbevren: how was the camping
16:03.16jbevrenprpplague: ping
16:03.19jbevrener pong that is
16:03.20jbevrenit was great
16:03.48jbevrenwe decided to invade a little-used small campground
16:03.55jbevrenand registered all the sites so we'd have it to ourselves :)
16:05.17prpplaguehehe
16:06.03prpplaguejbevren: what do you think about using a cf slot on the pixter?
16:06.18jbevrenlotsa wires
16:06.22jbevrenbut otherwise, no issues :)
16:06.22prpplaguejbevren: not really a functional cf slot, but really a replacement for the cardedge?
16:06.27jbevrenohh
16:06.35jbevrenI thought you meant to use for storage
16:06.51jbevrenshrug
16:06.56jbevrenI'm neutral heh
16:07.36prpplaguejbevren: i'm just searching for a good connection type, because that cardedge sucks
16:08.39prpplaguecan;t think of anything else that would be easier to use
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16:09.15jbevrenI only dislike the current connectgor because it requires a thin pcb
16:09.44prpplagueagreed
16:10.09*** join/#edev dfarnsworth (n=dfarnswo@65.200.49.156)
16:11.28prpplaguejbevren: btw, i think i've figured out how to do a ram upgrade as well
16:11.54prpplaguejbevren: the question is do we want to
16:12.20jbevrenprpplague: if XIP can give us at least 1M of working ram, I can probably work with the system using kdrive and remote apps
16:12.38jbevrenespecially if an XIP romfs is an option
16:12.55prpplaguejbevren: yea, XIP kernel already gives us 2.25mb free
16:13.19jbevrenI'd think I could squeeze a tiny GUI and device control application into 2.25M :)
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16:16.07prpplaguejbevren: ok, so i think i can do a board, just trying to decide what to put on it
16:16.24jbevrena ram board?
16:17.11jbevrenheh.  a board to host a BGA sdram IC would be quite cool
16:17.25jbevrenthe ram goes on top, and pads that match the pixter's pads are underneath
16:17.32jbevrenapply paste and heat hehe
16:19.46*** join/#edev stekloff (n=stekloff@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com)
16:28.55prpplaguejbevren: no need for all that
16:29.06prpplaguejbevren: you can use the standard tsop sdram
16:29.23prpplaguejbevren: you'd only need to solder 6 wires
16:29.29prpplaguejbevren: those are all the control lines
16:29.32jbevrenthe rest line up?
16:29.48prpplaguejbevren: no
16:29.57jbevren6 wires i sless than the 16 data bits on the chip
16:30.00prpplaguejbevren: all the rest are available on the cardedge
16:30.04jbevrenah
16:30.07jbevrengotcha
16:30.12prpplaguejbevren: well it would be more than 16
16:30.19jbevrenI know
16:30.22prpplaguejbevren: 16 data + 23 address + 6 control
16:30.27jbevrenbut my point was enough when listing the data bits :)
16:30.35prpplaguejbevren: yea
16:30.36jbevrenyoure sure the bus is th same on sdram and the cardedge?
16:30.44jbevrenon some arms, the sdram is on a separate bus
16:30.59prpplaguejbevren: i'm about 99% sure
16:31.04jbevrenok
16:31.15jbevrena simpler one like this would be more likely to share the bus :)
16:31.20jbevrenjust making sure
16:31.29*** join/#edev gandhijee (n=gandhije@mail.win-ent.com)
16:32.02prpplaguehmm, i'm having a brain cramp, i have an app that returns some environment variables, i.e. when you  run the program it outputs: SPOTSLOT=1
16:32.23prpplaguewhats the best way to call that from a shell script so that it becomes a variable?
16:34.04jbevrenuse backticks
16:34.13jbevrenassuming the application's output is all shell commandery
16:34.17jbevrensuch as:
16:34.23jbevrenbash$ `setenvironments.bin`
16:35.09jbevrenjust have it put ;'s after each env var and it'll be good to go
16:35.55prpplaguejbevren: hmm, i get command not found errors when i do that
16:36.14prpplagueits like its trying to execute the output
16:36.19jbevrenit outputs VAR=value line per line?
16:36.22jbevrenisnt that what you wanted?
16:37.12prpplaguejbevren: yea one per line, VAR=value
16:37.23jbevrenyoure using bash?
16:37.27prpplagueyea
16:37.56*** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.68.20.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net)
16:38.02prpplagueT0mW: hey hey
16:38.17prpplagueT0mW: sorry about dropping out of the conversation yesterday, had a power supply fail
16:38.33jbevrenjbevren@ixtli:~$ eval `./test.sh`
16:38.34jbevrenjbevren@ixtli:~$ echo $VAL1
16:38.34jbevren1
16:38.35jbevrengot it
16:38.46jbevren#!/bin/sh
16:38.46jbevrencat <<EOF
16:38.46jbevrenVAL1=1
16:38.49jbevren(etc)
16:38.49jbevrenEOF
16:39.47prpplagueah forgot the eval
16:41.19prpplaguethanks
16:41.25prpplaguebeen doing to much c these days
16:41.42jbevrenhehe
16:42.16prpplaguehehe, nasty nasty hack
16:42.49jbevrenssh_agent does the same thing
16:42.53jbevrenspits env vars to stdout
16:43.04jbevrenthats for good reason though.. that way your bashrc can load the info up
16:43.47T0mWprpplague: no, thank you for listening and for your views on that subject.  I have a meeting Thursday at 3PM.
16:44.56T0mWGPSFan: I got the wlags49_h25_cs wifi driver to shutup and stop printing tons of printk debugs.  Quite easy to do.
16:45.09prpplagueusing a telnet app , when it connects it initially uses the term type environment to send an encrypted string, hehe
16:45.15prpplagueT0mW: np
16:45.31jbevrenT0mW: sweet
16:45.33jbevrenI hate that output
16:45.46jbevrenimho it wastes cpu time and battery life
16:45.55prpplaguejbevren: a little c app gets excuted inside the .bash_profile that breaks the term type out from the encrypted parts, hehe
16:46.04jbevrenprp :)
16:47.37T0mWjust rename  wlags49_h25_cs.o to 'foo', then use mc to edit the object, replace 'printk' with 'shutup' in the linker table.  Then, create an EXPORTed function in the kernel named 'shutup' with same prototype, export, as printk, but only contains a 'return 0;'
16:47.39T0mWheh
16:48.20T0mWwhen the module loads, it resolves 'shutup' in the kernel (instead of 'printk') and calls the empty function.
16:49.00T0mWoh, you have to rename  wlags49_h25_cs.o to foo and back again, mc won't let you edit an '*.o' file.
16:50.05jbevrenhehe
16:50.14jbevrenI'd just use joe or vi.. theyre binary-clean when set up right
16:50.35prpplagueT0mW: yea you can
16:50.51T0mWI took the ZipIt out last night to see if iwlist could find any wifi hubs, went to the laundramat.  It found 4 open wifi hubs of various SSIDs, I was able to use two of them.
16:50.59T0mWjbevren: oh
16:51.06T0mWjbevren: you can use vi for that?
16:51.11jbevrennod
16:51.15jbevrenI think the normal setup is binary clean
16:51.18prpplagueT0mW: just start the command with "mcedit"
16:51.20jbevrenwith joe, you have to disable wordwrap
16:51.51T0mWvi -mcedit?
16:51.52jbevrenT0mW: that would be handy, cause then you can use /printkcwshutup
16:52.01jbevrenthen use n.n.n.n.n.n.n. to get rid of em all
16:52.02prpplagueT0mW: hehe
16:52.02jbevren:)
16:52.07jbevrenvi file.o
16:52.13prpplagueT0mW: no, mcedit is the text editor for mc
16:52.20jbevrenPRP was talking bout mc's editor
16:52.20prpplagueT0mW: mcedit nameof.o
16:52.32T0mWyeah, but brings it up as an image, not nibbled hex
16:52.41jbevrenvi? yeah
16:52.45jbevrenjust do it(tm).
16:52.53jbevrenas long as youre not changing the length of the printk string youre good
16:53.14jbevrenI used that to change the UA for wget once ;-)
16:53.26jbevrenthat was before wget had the -useragent switch
16:54.07T0mWjbevren: ok, at least if I am carefull it should work.  I did not know that vi was binary clean.  thank you for that!
16:54.26prpplagueT0mW: then just use "mc -v nameof.o"
16:54.33prpplagueT0mW: then you can press F3 to show in hex
16:54.44prpplaguesorry F4
16:54.49jbevrenT0mW: I dont think its intended to be
16:54.52jbevrenbut its behavior is
16:55.13jbevrenit does load the whole binary into ram though (fair warning)
16:55.27jbevrenreminds me of our retarded techs that load gigabyte-sized logfiles into nano
16:55.33T0mWuh, vi added a <LF>
16:55.38agaffneyjbevren: hah
16:55.40prpplaguedoh
16:55.44jbevrenyour linewrap is on
16:55.49prpplagueT0mW: mc is much easier
16:55.50prpplaguehehe
16:55.50T0mWlol
16:55.50jbevrenit's not in mine (debian stock setup)
16:56.43prpplaguejbevren: still can't decide on what to put on the board
16:57.04prpplaguejbevren: i know i need some nor flash, but i can't help but think about adding a 16mb sdram
16:57.41prpplaguejbevren: i could also add a pcmcia controller to do a CF card slot
16:58.09prpplaguejbevren: never had a device with a full bus available
16:58.44jbevrenprpplague: Horrible isnt it? :)
16:59.01jbevren0 bytes from 00:12:5A:10:AA:D7 id 54 time 198.79ms
16:59.01jbevren0 bytes from 00:12:5A:10:AA:D7 id 0 time 148.78ms
16:59.03jbevrenheh
17:00.14prpplaguejbevren: what is it you want to do with your pixter-mm?
17:00.36T0mWprpplague: it is, but when you put mc into edit mode, it will jump to another address, not the one where your cursor is at.
17:01.14prpplaguehmm, i don't have that problem
17:01.21T0mWbut, mcview will let me edit the object file
17:01.30T0mWmc alone won't
17:01.36FireEglT0mW: There's another (simpler) way to stop those debug messages from wlags49_h25_cs..  Just pass these options when you insmod it.. DebugFlag=0 pc_debug=0
17:01.41jbevrenprpplague: Honestly, random tinkerings
17:01.49jbevrenbut I keep having this idea of doing the microwave controller
17:01.51jbevrenhehe
17:01.51prpplagueT0mW: right, you need to use the mc -v option
17:02.01jbevrenso it'd be a simple device control
17:02.04prpplagueT0mW: if you do mc -v you can toggle between ascii and hex
17:02.05T0mWFireEgl: oooh!  I will try that and see!
17:02.07prpplagueT0mW: using F4
17:02.18jbevrenprpplague: said controller would have a remotely accessible framebuffer
17:02.22prpplagueT0mW: then when you are where you want just press f2 to edit the hex value
17:02.33jbevrenso I'd need networking and about 5 gpio's
17:02.45prpplaguejbevren: so you won't be keeping the case?
17:02.48jbevrenlessee. magnetron, two fans, light, beeper
17:02.56FireEglYou can experiment with higher debug levels..  to find the point where the annoying messages stop..
17:02.57jbevrenprpplague: not on that one, correct
17:03.28prpplaguejbevren: see thats part of my problem, there are soooo many things you can do with this
17:03.29jbevrenprpplague: btw, have you thought about getting a sdram controller to add ram via the expansion slot?
17:03.48prpplaguejbevren: why, i already have an onboard sdram controller
17:03.58prpplaguejbevren: just need the extra 6 control lines
17:04.01jbevrenprpplague: to be able to add ram without opening it heh
17:04.10jbevrentrue on that, just an idea ;-)
17:04.27prpplaguejbevren: any plan i have involves opening it
17:04.57prpplaguei just can't seem to focus on where i want to go with it
17:05.16prpplaguei know what i want to do, but i want the design to be enough so other people can use it too
17:05.29jbevrenprpplague: Pick a project and go heh
17:05.37jbevrenthe consignment store down the road has small nukes for $20
17:05.42jbevrenso I'll probably go forward with controlling it
17:07.21prpplaguejbevren: hmm
17:08.03jbevrenprpplague: I've never found a microwave interface that doesnt somehow need improvements
17:08.19jbevrenthe only thing I'm concerned about is safety (crashing an dleaving the magnetron on)
17:08.28jbevrenbut I can build that into hardware by using a heartbeat pulse i nthe application
17:08.36prpplaguehehe
17:08.37jbevreni.e. no pulse for 2sec = magnetron off
17:08.44jbevrena 555 timer could do that much
17:09.04jbevrenhehe.. I could even require the line to be continuously toggled to keep it on
17:09.12jbevrenthat'd save a gpio
17:10.29T0mWFireEgl: 'DebugFlag=0 pc_debug=0' is much quieter, thank you.
17:10.36prpplagueanyone else have any input ?
17:10.47prpplagueCosmicPenguin: what would you like to see about the pixter-mm
17:10.51FireEgl=)
17:10.55T0mWprpplague: I've always an opinion, uh, what is the topic?
17:10.56T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:11.05prpplagueT0mW: on the pixter-mm
17:11.10T0mWnn
17:11.12T0mWnm
17:11.16prpplaguehehe
17:11.20T0mW:P
17:11.24prpplagueT0mW: you should be interested
17:11.33T0mWI've my own fish frying, thank you
17:11.35prpplagueT0mW: if you are gonna use the lh79524 for your project
17:11.51prpplagueT0mW: as I am the only active developer around, hehe
17:12.03T0mWprpplague: ah, I've two ARM LPD dev boards: LH7A400 & LH79520
17:12.24T0mWthe BDI2000 plugs into both without mods
17:12.24prpplagueT0mW: hehe. well surprise surprise, the lh79524 is significantly different
17:12.43prpplagueT0mW: gonna have to get another module from LPD if you want to do the 24 or 25
17:12.58T0mWwhen I get to that point perhaps, I need to do a lot of work with the MMU first and those boards would be good for that
17:13.16prpplagueT0mW: hehe, and whats wrong with the pixter? hehe
17:13.36prpplagueT0mW: its far cheaper than a logic pd board hehe
17:13.38T0mWnothing
17:13.52T0mWnothing wrong with it, it just doesn't excite me
17:14.13prpplagueT0mW: hehe, i think a $25 lh79524 board would excite you, hehe
17:14.48T0mWzipit does, I've been thinking of getting openvpn working on it so I can tap into any wifi, then run the email app on my home computer
17:15.13prpplaguehehe
17:15.15prpplagueT0mW: yea
17:15.17jbevrenprpplague: offtopic.. some startech IP-KVMs run linux
17:15.28prpplaguejbevren: interesting
17:15.32jbevren200mhz 405GP
17:15.33jbevrenhehe
17:15.56T0mWplus, it is a tool for me.  I've had problems with software I release where the tech guys are so dumb they cannot do a simple binary capture of a serial RS232 stream.
17:16.09prpplagueyea
17:16.22jbevren9726428611 (ebay) .. use one of those and a standard/short 1u riser to make your DHT box shorter :)
17:16.33T0mWSo, I sent them a zipit with an rc.S that runs a capture app.
17:16.36prpplagueT0mW: well i was just pushing the pixter as an inexpensive dev platform, since you had mentioned using the lh79524
17:17.42T0mWanyone here successfully use switch_root?  I understand that is preferred over pivot_root?
17:17.54jbevrenwhat's the difference?
17:18.04jbevrenswitch doesnt leave the old rootfs mounted or ?
17:18.14T0mWswitch_root claims to recover the mounted ramfs
17:18.19jbevrenoh
17:18.25jbevrenI thought umount ; freeramdisk did that
17:18.26jbevren:)
17:18.45T0mWpivot_root leaves you unable to umount the old root system.
17:18.57T0mWat least that is what the busybox help says
17:19.33FireEglI have my ZipIt doing pivot_root AND umounting the old root.. took a while to get it to do that though..
17:19.55T0mWaw, maybe it is another case of the docs lagging behind the actual software capabilities: e.g. freeramdisk
17:21.09jbevrenprpplague: the model on that startech kvm btw, SV11101PEXT
17:21.13T0mWFireEgl: yeah, pivot_root can be a challenge to get it working right
17:22.59prpplagueCosmicPenguin: you have any thoughts as to what you'd like to see on the pixter-mm?
17:23.37T0mWprpplague: thunderbird?
17:23.47prpplagueT0mW: ??
17:23.49CosmicPenguinan mp3 player
17:24.21prpplagueCosmicPenguin: i'm still tracing out the audio, not sure yet if it would support mp3
17:24.26prpplagueCosmicPenguin: cpu wise it could
17:24.35CosmicPenguinshould handle libmad right?  Integers are good
17:24.37prpplagueCosmicPenguin: just don't know if the hardware is there
17:25.15prpplagueCosmicPenguin: the pixter has a bunch of preset audio sounds, so i'm not sure if it would be possible to stream audio from the cpu without a mod
17:25.33CosmicPenguinyou're breaking my heart
17:25.44prpplaguehehe
17:25.54prpplagueCosmicPenguin: i suspect its possible, just not 100% yet
17:26.03prpplagueCosmicPenguin: hardware wise, anything?
17:26.57CosmicPenguincan't think of anything
17:26.57*** join/#edev mbuf (n=mbuf@59.92.38.104)
17:27.05CosmicPenguincan it do SDIO?
17:27.19prpplagueCosmicPenguin: it could bit bang sdio,
17:27.30prpplagueCosmicPenguin: i had plan on just adding spi cd/mmc
17:27.33prpplaguesd/mmc
17:28.35CosmicPenguinhow about bluetooth?
17:29.02prpplagueCosmicPenguin: yea, i could add bluetooth client pretty easy
17:29.15CosmicPenguinwhat profiles does the hardware support?
17:29.52prpplaguehttp://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=148
17:30.04jbevrenprpplague: yep
17:30.08jbevrenI want to play with some of those
17:30.09CosmicPenguinyou'll defaintely want to get your hands on that AT set
17:30.15jbevrenI have it
17:30.36prpplagueCosmicPenguin: say again?
17:30.53CosmicPenguinit supports audio
17:30.58CosmicPenguinso there's your mp3 player
17:31.12CosmicPenguinSPP, DUN, LAN, PAN, Headset, Audio Gateway, FTP, GAP SDP, RFCOMM, and L2CAP protocols.
17:31.39CosmicPenguinand its serial attached too
17:31.44CosmicPenguinso it should just work (TM)
17:31.55prpplaguehehe
17:31.57CosmicPenguinThose are made in Colorado too - fun.. :)
17:32.02CosmicPenguinI can go down and get angry in person
17:32.25CosmicPenguinyeah, I definately want that
17:34.20prpplagueCosmicPenguin: hmm
17:34.21jbevrenhehe
17:34.26prpplaguei guess bt would do well
17:34.38jbevrenthey have modules with rp-sma too
17:34.55jbevrenyou could stick a rp-sma antenna in the cavity for the stylus if you use the original case
17:34.57jbevrenhehe
17:35.35prpplaguejbevren: hehe yea
17:37.39prpplaguejbevren: so those will run as spi or rs-232?
17:37.53jbevrenafaik rs232
17:38.12T0mWanyone suggest a Windows2K / WindowsXP util that will work with tarballs, similar to the WinZip?  I got a customer...
17:38.23T0mWlike a WinTar
17:38.24T0mW?
17:38.32T0mWI hate zipfiles
17:38.54T0mWoo! Dave would know, he runs windows
17:40.18prpplagueT0mW: must be talking about some other dave
17:40.30T0mW:P
17:40.45prpplagueT0mW: but iirc the latest winzip used to do tarballs
17:41.02*** part/#edev stekloff (n=stekloff@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com)
17:41.23prpplaguejbevren: hmm, what do you think of those bt dip modules?
17:41.42jbevrentempting since theyre SPP and 3.3v heh
17:41.57*** join/#edev redb1ue (i=star@ppp132.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)
17:41.58jbevrenI'd like to get a rs232 one for my c64 to eliminate the nullmodem cable on it ;-)
17:42.31prpplaguejbevren: isn't that what you got?
17:42.39jbevren?
17:42.39prpplaguejbevren: or did you get some smirf's
17:42.49prpplaguehttp://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=148
17:42.51jbevrenIve never ordered from sparkfun
17:43.03prpplagueoh
17:43.05jbevrenthe modules I have are the cheap bluetooth usb dongles from surpluscomputers.com
17:43.06jbevren:)
17:43.10jbevrenI said I want to play with em heh
17:43.11prpplagueOH
17:43.14prpplaguehehe
17:43.26jbevrennow that they have the microchip ethernet board, I'll probably get some
17:48.29GPSFanT0mW: hey, a quiet wifi driver, what a novel idea!.
17:50.04T0mWGPSFan: heh
17:50.20T0mWGPSFan: nice to see the "other" messages while booting
17:51.00T0mWGPSFan: just folding the 5wire_loader and other zipit utils into the package tree today
17:51.02GPSFanindeed, I'll have to add those flags to my startup, Thanks FireEgl ..
17:51.06prpplaguewell if i use the bt rs-232 based, that would give me some wireless connectivity
17:51.13prpplaguenot much range
17:51.32prpplaguethe bt would be easy to add
17:51.57GPSFanT0mW: you should try the wavemon app I tweaked up for the Zipit. it's on yahoo.
17:52.28prpplaguei assume you can run ppp over the bt easy
17:57.53prpplaguejbevren: i thought about adding a usb host
17:58.00prpplaguejbevren: but that would require a 5v source
17:58.05jbevrennod
17:58.15jbevrenthe stock supply is 6v
17:58.54prpplaguejbevren: it would be hard to get good 5v out of that
17:59.00prpplaguefor very long atleast
17:59.08prpplaguenot on AA batteries
17:59.11jbevrenhehe
17:59.21jbevrenwell, you talked about not using the original enclosure
17:59.47prpplaguejbevren: well like i said, there are several things i'm thinking about and can't decide
18:00.03prpplaguejbevren: if we ditch the case, we could do a ton of things
18:00.18prpplaguejbevren: but the case to me is part of the nicety of the pixter
18:00.23jbevrennod
18:00.32jbevrenthought harda bout the universal IR remote controller? hehe
18:00.53prpplaguehehe
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18:05.34jbevrenprpplague: Interesting
18:05.45prpplaguejbevren: ?
18:05.49jbevrenthe enc28j60 hardware is apparently integrated into some of the microchip PICs
18:06.01prpplaguejbevren: didn't know that
18:06.10jbevrenhttp://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en026447
18:06.13jbevrensorry for the long url ;-)
18:08.55jbevrenprpplague: those would be great for appliance monitoring ;)
18:09.08jbevreni.e. the washer sending you an IM when its done heh
18:10.41prpplaguejbevren: dishwasher can let you know when its done
18:10.57jbevrenprpplague: or let you know what cycle it's on (the PIC has 39 IOs)
18:10.57prpplaguejbevren: oh wait i can already yell "honey you done yet?"
18:11.15jbevrenprpplague: why, does she sit and stare at it until it's done? hehe
18:11.28prpplaguejbevren:  hehe
18:11.45prpplaguejbevren: i think you missed the point on that one, hehe
18:11.51jbevrennono I got it
18:11.55jbevrenI dont have such luxury
18:11.56prpplaguehehe
18:11.57jbevrenbrb
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19:22.27prpplaguejbevren:  Item number: 330004373520
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19:29.44jbevrenpretty cool
19:30.14prpplaguejbevren: i'm thinking of ordering one already mounted
19:30.19prpplaguejbevren: for a programmer
19:30.28jbevrenhaha
19:30.32jbevrenI just thought the same thing
19:30.39prpplaguehttp://cgi.ebay.com/442048-TSOP48-Programmer-Adaptor-Model-0_W0QQitemZ7569147131QQihZ017QQcategoryZ66990QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
19:39.44prpplaguejbevren: that would make prototyping with some nor flash much easier
19:44.34prpplaguejbevren: http://www.sivava.com/image_T01.htm
19:44.39prpplaguejbevren: oh la la
19:45.42prpplagueholy crap
19:45.50prpplaguehttp://www.sivava.com/image_T03.htm
19:45.54prpplague$3.50 each
19:46.08prpplaguebets the crap out of what i paid for those tsop2 adapters
19:55.29jbevrenno doubt
20:02.03jbevrenhm
20:02.05jbevrenthailand
20:02.06jbevrenhehe
20:02.35jbevrengameboymall.com is one of their distributors
20:06.32jbevrencrap
20:06.39jbevrenI remembered while browsing
20:06.52jbevrenI have 4x 4Mbyte intel NOR flash roms
20:06.55jbevrensomewhere..
20:07.01jbevrenhehe
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20:21.51agaffneyheh, he got banned again?
20:22.16prpplagueagaffney: one last time
20:23.06flybackprpplague guess the rules don't apply to you
20:23.07flybacksee topic
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20:25.00flybackbut that's fine i've just decided to occasionally ask questions here and not contribute anymore
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20:31.10flybackbeing that embedded code is usually smaller and more compact
20:31.17flybackwould that affect compile time
20:31.24flybackand cpu required to build it quickly
20:31.35CosmicPenguinsometimes its more complex and takes longer to compile actually
20:31.41flybackick
20:31.43CosmicPenguindepends on what sort of crazy size optimizations you are trying out
20:32.03flybackI got some old celeron 400's and 500's that are pretty much dead ended on upgradability
20:32.13flybackI was thinking of turning one into a dedicated cross compiler box
20:32.28agaffneyI have a cross-compiling distcc network setup
20:32.32agaffneyfor 4-5 arches
20:32.45agaffneyall my boxes have cross-compilers for all my other boxes
20:32.49flybackthey don't make a distcc for windows do they?
20:32.57agaffneycygwin
20:33.15flybackI mean as a client for crunching the code
20:33.18flybacknot actually building it
20:33.31agaffneyyes, cygwin
20:33.41agaffneyyou can use the gcc to build a cross-gcc
20:33.44agaffneyand distcc
20:33.45prpplagueT0mW: well....
20:33.58prpplagueT0mW: i just successfully soldered a tsop2-48 package
20:34.09flybackcool, that way when my main box is in windows, I can syphin off some cpu hp from it's sempron 3100+
20:34.10gandhijeeanyone know of a console mp3 player for ARM? or is it something what would have to be written
20:34.18T0mWprpplague: bitch, ain't it?
20:34.24flybackmpg123 or 321 might have a arm port
20:34.26flybackI am not sure
20:34.31agaffneyflyback: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Distcc_server_on_Windows
20:34.32prpplagueT0mW: actually not too bad
20:34.34flybackactually 321 only
20:34.38flybacksince arm doesn't have fpu
20:34.43gandhijeeyeah
20:34.46flybackthx agaffney
20:34.58prpplagueT0mW: i got an extra tip for my weller and used a metal file to get a really good point
20:35.09prpplagueT0mW: hehe, had to take my glasses off though
20:35.39flybackI still might use a celeron even if it's slow, it will be 24/7 dedicated and less bulls*** to deal with
20:35.58prpplagueT0mW: main problem was the tin'n
20:36.11flybackI have had too many nervous breakdowns in past years trying to do everything from one point
20:36.21prpplagueT0mW: a couple were a little higher than the others, so placing the chip evenly was kinda hard
20:36.46prpplagueT0mW: as long as i have some clearance on each side it should be ok
20:36.59agaffneyflyback: tmi
20:37.10flybackbah I bet half the channel here
20:37.15flybackdoes their best reading there
20:37.20T0mWprpplague: yeah, you really need a good 'hot air reflow' not a 'hot oil reflow' when they finish the PCB
20:37.24agaffneyflyback: sure, I know I do
20:37.30agaffneybut we don't need to know that :P
20:37.36flybackok :P
20:37.40T0mWprpplague: 'hot oil reflow' is a cheaper process
20:37.48flybackuhh
20:37.52flybackwouldn't that tend to suck
20:38.05flybackcause the oil would run and refloow everything in it's path?
20:38.18prpplagueT0mW: yea, just gotta tin the pads first, you can't add the solder afterward
20:38.38flybackWHOA
20:38.46flybackdistcc can be setup as a 2k or xp service
20:38.47flybacknice :)
20:38.48T0mWprpplague: next time, try using solder wick to suck the pads dry.  It is a b!tch to do as you can weaken the pads and you will have to clean the pads with alcohol to get all the fsking rosin off
20:39.10T0mWprpplague: no, don't tin first
20:39.44T0mWprpplague: try flood-soldering the pins, then use the leading edge (tip) of solder wick to clear the excess.
20:40.04flybackT0mW
20:40.09flybackI have done that trick it does seem to work
20:40.11prpplagueT0mW: funny, thats what i'm trying now
20:40.14flybackprpplague
20:40.21flybackthere is always chipquick too
20:40.22T0mWprpplague: the side of solder wick doesn't work to clear fine-lead pins of solder, only the tip works
20:40.42prpplagueT0mW: why not tin first?
20:40.55T0mWprpplague: 0.080" solder wick works best
20:41.11T0mWprpplague: becuase you cannot get the chip to sit evenly
20:41.32prpplagueT0mW: ahh, yea, i had that problem on the first chip
20:41.45T0mWprpplague: if you have some pads with more solder on them than others, it is difficult to solder the "low" pins
20:41.58prpplagueT0mW: what i did was tin the pads just a little, use some wick to make sure it was even, then place it
20:42.25T0mWprpplague: you'll get your own technique down
20:42.26prpplaguei've done this one chip about 10 times already, hehe
20:44.01prpplagueT0mW: pretty confident that i'll be able to do it for real
20:44.09prpplagueT0mW: not as bad as i had thought
20:44.22prpplagueT0mW: its close, but not impossible
20:51.09T0mWthis final tweaking just grinds away
20:52.29T0mWprpplague: wait until you get solder paste methods working for you, then SMD is not so bad
20:54.20T0mWprpplague: mask off the area to paste with tape, apply the paste with a razor blade, scrape with razor blade to leave film on the pads, strip the tape off, place the part and add heat
20:54.53T0mWprpplague: I use a hot air pencil on rework boards, toaster oven on new boards (but new boards I use a stencil, not tape)
20:55.53T0mWthe biggest mistake the people make when using solder paste is to put too much paste onto the pad area
20:56.02T0mWthe biggest mistake that people make when using solder paste is to put too much paste onto the pad area
20:56.59T0mWprpplague: pick up a 500gr jar next time you are in Florida, heh
20:57.29prpplaguewill do
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22:39.43jbevrenyay
22:39.49jbevrenamd64 up and going
23:13.01CosmicPenguingo amd64 go
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23:58.42CosmicPenguinprpplague: greets
23:58.53prpplaguehey
23:58.57prpplagueCosmicPenguin: whats cookin?

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