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| 13:44.44 | jbevren | morning |
| 13:44.53 | jbevren | I went to my sister's and forgot the pixter again :P |
| 13:46.22 | prpplague | doh |
| 13:54.12 | jbevren | Hypaball |
| 13:54.14 | jbevren | erm |
| 13:54.15 | jbevren | hehe |
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| 14:09.04 | chouinard | morning |
| 14:11.35 | prpplague | chouinard: lo |
| 14:11.46 | prpplague | http://www.metku.net/index.html?path=mods/loginoki/index_eng |
| 14:11.52 | prpplague | interesting mod |
| 14:13.16 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.68.20.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 14:14.02 | prpplague | T0mW: hey hey |
| 14:14.25 | prpplague | T0mW: questions, soooooo many questionssssssssssssssssssssssssssss |
| 14:15.11 | prpplague | T0mW: hey, on the pixter connector |
| 14:15.59 | prpplague | T0mW: for the package i made some additional wire traces, but drc complains about it |
| 14:16.31 | T0mW | heh |
| 14:16.57 | T0mW | DRC is supposed to do that, it will smack you if you don't behave and follow the "rules" |
| 14:17.47 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, but i can't figure out what drc is complaining about |
| 14:17.57 | T0mW | prpplague: trick is to have proper settings in DRC so it will know what the rules are, initially DRC is set very convervatively. |
| 14:18.26 | prpplague | T0mW: its complains about clearance, but the same drc settings don't complain when i just do the routes instead of use them as part of the package |
| 14:18.50 | T0mW | prpplague: in the DRC errors list that it pops up, did you try clicking on each error to see where it was? |
| 14:19.00 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 14:20.11 | T0mW | prpplague: what is it telling you? "clearance"? |
| 14:20.31 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 14:20.55 | T0mW | prpplague: ok, click on DRC and bring it up |
| 14:21.13 | prpplague | done |
| 14:21.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: greetings |
| 14:21.19 | T0mW | prpplague: click on the clearance tab |
| 14:21.31 | T0mW | let's look at what you got in ther |
| 14:21.34 | T0mW | let's look at what you got in there |
| 14:21.43 | CosmicPenguin | yo |
| 14:22.26 | prpplague | T0mW: 6mil all around |
| 14:22.39 | T0mW | heh |
| 14:22.55 | prpplague | T0mW: its the only way i can do this with just 2 layers |
| 14:23.19 | T0mW | prpplague: allright, run the DRC now, "CHECK" button. |
| 14:23.30 | prpplague | T0mW: but its like its treating the connection as three different pads instead of one |
| 14:23.36 | prpplague | T0mW: done |
| 14:23.38 | T0mW | it does |
| 14:23.53 | prpplague | T0mW: well that sucks |
| 14:24.05 | T0mW | on a pad, there are at least two possible errors |
| 14:24.12 | T0mW | track-to-pad |
| 14:24.16 | T0mW | pad-to-pad |
| 14:24.22 | T0mW | both clearances |
| 14:24.43 | T0mW | ok, got the errors list dialog up? |
| 14:24.48 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 14:25.09 | T0mW | bottom left corner, make sure "centered" is checked |
| 14:25.19 | T0mW | then |
| 14:25.32 | prpplague | ok |
| 14:25.37 | flyback | permission to paste not totally relevatant to channel but prtty damn cool url sir! |
| 14:25.45 | prpplague | flyback: no |
| 14:25.46 | T0mW | click on one of the errors in the list, your display should zoom over to the problem in question |
| 14:25.52 | flyback | damn you |
| 14:25.55 | flyback | :P |
| 14:25.57 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 14:26.02 | prpplague | T0mW: with ya so far |
| 14:26.19 | T0mW | prpplague: it should point to a shaded area |
| 14:26.26 | prpplague | T0mW: right |
| 14:26.35 | prpplague | T0mW: was up to that point |
| 14:26.43 | T0mW | that is your clearance problem |
| 14:26.46 | T0mW | now |
| 14:26.52 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, the question is why? |
| 14:27.05 | T0mW | set the grid to 1mil, and visible |
| 14:27.40 | prpplague | T0mW: ok, before we go any further, its complaining about clearance, when the two items should be connected |
| 14:27.55 | prpplague | T0mW: two pads connected by a trace |
| 14:28.14 | prpplague | T0mW: its complaining about pad 1 to trace, and trace to pad2 |
| 14:28.26 | T0mW | ah, but, grasshopper, you may think that they are connected, but did you tell Eagle that they were to be connected? |
| 14:28.27 | T0mW | heh |
| 14:28.35 | T0mW | you have to follow the rules |
| 14:28.49 | T0mW | let's see why DRC thinks they are "wrong" |
| 14:29.11 | T0mW | now,] |
| 14:29.15 | prpplague | T0mW: ok |
| 14:29.33 | T0mW | now, you said in the schematic that those pins should be connected, correct? |
| 14:29.47 | prpplague | yes, and no |
| 14:29.55 | T0mW | cannot have it both ways |
| 14:30.07 | T0mW | either yes or no |
| 14:30.11 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:30.24 | T0mW | either she is pregnant or she is not |
| 14:30.25 | prpplague | the schematic only knows about one of the pads |
| 14:31.04 | T0mW | ah, so, you have been violating rules and decided to take off on your own and use the CAD as a easel then |
| 14:31.34 | prpplague | T0mW: well this doesn't seem like a violation to me, this seems common sense |
| 14:31.36 | T0mW | if you violate the rules, then you are on your own. |
| 14:31.39 | T0mW | so |
| 14:31.48 | T0mW | how does that follow? |
| 14:31.48 | prpplague | T0mW: i guess i'm not explaining properly |
| 14:32.03 | T0mW | stop |
| 14:32.14 | T0mW | let's stick to the question at hand first |
| 14:32.24 | T0mW | then we will get into 'what ifs' later |
| 14:32.38 | T0mW | let's examine why the DRC bitched at you here |
| 14:32.52 | T0mW | go to the schematic |
| 14:33.01 | prpplague | T0mW: ok, at the schemtic |
| 14:33.02 | T0mW | do you have those pins wired together |
| 14:33.04 | T0mW | ? |
| 14:33.07 | prpplague | no |
| 14:33.45 | T0mW | ok, then, what's your issue with DRC? It did what it was supposed to: it found a connection that wasn't supposed to be there. |
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| 14:34.09 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, i'm not explaining very well |
| 14:34.50 | T0mW | do you see why DRC slapped you down? |
| 14:35.37 | prpplague | T0mW: yes, and no, its treating one electrically the same piece, as three pieces |
| 14:36.00 | T0mW | ok |
| 14:36.23 | T0mW | in the dark-days of electronics, we did circuit boards using velum and tape |
| 14:36.33 | prpplague | T0mW: let me try a different way of explaining it |
| 14:36.38 | T0mW | later, we used autoCAD to build boards |
| 14:36.48 | prpplague | T0mW: let say you have a transitor |
| 14:37.13 | T0mW | alright, I'll let you talk for a bit, hehhe |
| 14:37.26 | T0mW | explain yourself, heh |
| 14:37.32 | prpplague | T0mW: it comes in two packages, where two of legs are exaclty the same, but on the third legs, one is longer than the other |
| 14:37.49 | T0mW | so, four pads |
| 14:38.05 | prpplague | T0mW: with 2 of the pads connected with a trace |
| 14:38.16 | T0mW | k |
| 14:38.39 | prpplague | T0mW: ok so you do the library package that way , 4 pads with a trace between two |
| 14:38.40 | T0mW | I had an inductor like that |
| 14:39.40 | prpplague | T0mW: ok, so the 2 pads and trace should be considered as electrically the same |
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| 14:40.05 | prpplague | T0mW: problem is when you run DRC, it complains that pad1 is too close to the trace and the trace is too close to pad2 |
| 14:40.26 | prpplague | T0mW: its seeing them as not connected, when they should be |
| 14:40.38 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 14:41.23 | T0mW | prpplague: wait a bit, let me try that. |
| 14:41.48 | prpplague | ok |
| 14:49.33 | T0mW | prpplague: what you are trying to do is called an "irregular pad" |
| 14:49.59 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh ok |
| 14:50.23 | prpplague | T0mW: so how does that work? |
| 14:54.37 | prpplague | davidc__: man who is that ugly sucker you test you camera software with? hehe |
| 14:55.11 | T0mW | prpplague: I don't do such pads: prewired |
| 14:55.44 | T0mW | prpplague: I'm not sure that you can do that, but, did you try looking through the Eagle newsgroups at CadSoft.de? |
| 14:56.02 | T0mW | prpplague: I have seen that question come up, but, like I said, I don't do things that way |
| 14:56.10 | prpplague | naw, not yet, i just assumed i was doing something wrong, and that my good friend who's and eagle expert could help me |
| 14:56.36 | prpplague | T0mW: they other thing that drives me nuts is that the group function doesn't allow duplication |
| 14:56.37 | T0mW | prpplague: so, I don't pay attention to the answers, IMO, it is not a "correct" way to do things. |
| 14:56.50 | T0mW | prpplague: yes it will |
| 14:57.00 | prpplague | T0mW: i've not be able to get to work |
| 14:57.07 | T0mW | prpplague: group | cut | paste |
| 14:57.15 | T0mW | not group | copy | paste |
| 14:57.54 | T0mW | more correctly: group | cut | right click | paste |
| 14:58.07 | prpplague | hmm |
| 14:58.12 | prpplague | doesn't appear to work for me |
| 14:58.25 | T0mW | right click denotes that you are referring to the GROUPed items |
| 14:58.39 | T0mW | prpplague: you can only group in the schematic |
| 14:59.02 | T0mW | schematic --> layout, not schematic <--> layout |
| 14:59.08 | T0mW | that is backannotation |
| 14:59.15 | T0mW | when you go both ways |
| 14:59.29 | chouimat | wow sourceforge is crappier than usual today |
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| 14:59.39 | T0mW | backanno is usually limited in function on packages |
| 14:59.47 | T0mW | for good reasons |
| 15:00.48 | T0mW | chouimat: some things never change. :( |
| 15:01.20 | chouimat | T0mW: lot of error 500 today |
| 15:01.32 | ccjoe | I have been using PADS, PowerPCB since they came out, I am thinking of changing to Eagle, is Eagle as capable? |
| 15:01.40 | prpplague | i group 4 items together, choose cut, then paste |
| 15:01.40 | prpplague | get "buffer empty |
| 15:01.43 | chouimat | http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Universal_Remote_Control_Everything_3000 |
| 15:01.45 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:01.47 | prpplague | got to do cut |
| 15:02.02 | chouimat | prpplague: look at the link ;) nice project todo |
| 15:02.31 | prpplague | T0mW: you can group in the library editor as well |
| 15:02.39 | T0mW | yes |
| 15:02.47 | prpplague | T0mW: thats where i was having troubles |
| 15:03.00 | T0mW | definately in the librarian! |
| 15:03.16 | T0mW | clik on GROUP |
| 15:03.32 | prpplague | ccjoe: sorry , can't help ya, eagle is the only thing i've used other than PCB from the GEDA project |
| 15:03.49 | T0mW | clik & hold the left button, drag out a group block to encompass the items, then release the mouse |
| 15:03.49 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, the problem was i couldn't get it to duplicate a group |
| 15:03.56 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 15:04.22 | T0mW | clik on CUT button, then move the mouse into the work area and right clik once |
| 15:04.23 | prpplague | T0mW: they need to fix the replicate button |
| 15:04.30 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 15:04.32 | T0mW | then clik PASTE |
| 15:04.34 | prpplague | T0mW: got it now |
| 15:05.04 | prpplague | T0mW: my question is why can't they make the replicate button work that way with groups? |
| 15:05.11 | ccjoe | ok |
| 15:05.30 | T0mW | Eagle isn't OrCad, it isn't perfect either, but, it does not cost the same as OrCad / PadsPCB, etc. |
| 15:05.57 | prpplague | T0mW: well the reason i wanted to do the irregular pads , is because i don't want to have to route between the thru hole pins every time |
| 15:06.02 | T0mW | you can get away with a nice layout package for $800, Eagle, OrCad costs more like $6K |
| 15:06.22 | T0mW | prpplague: goto the Eagle users newsgroup and ask |
| 15:06.30 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i was gonna ask, is the autorouter really worth purchasing? |
| 15:06.35 | T0mW | naw |
| 15:06.42 | T0mW | autorouters never are |
| 15:06.42 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, already looking at the archive |
| 15:07.11 | prpplague | T0mW: i'm gonna get the standard edition of eagle when i get the $$ |
| 15:07.24 | prpplague | T0mW: don't know if i'll ever get something actually made, hehe |
| 15:07.32 | T0mW | I seldom find the autorouter useful for anything other than to run it to get an idea of how to route a board, then I blow away what it did and do it over by hand |
| 15:08.52 | T0mW | autorouters have very little sense of the the need to keep certain traces short (high speed) while others can go any which way. Some sophisticated autorouters can be told about trace / signal charactoristics and they will prioritize connectivity based on that |
| 15:09.00 | T0mW | however, those do cost $$$ |
| 15:09.15 | ccjoe | I'm tired of paying $488 for support every year for PowerPCB |
| 15:09.24 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, so i guess about $400 would get me the schematic and layout modules |
| 15:09.40 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:09.44 | T0mW | prpplague: all you need is the schematic + layout module, I would advise against the autorouter module |
| 15:09.45 | ccjoe | and the boards I'm doing nowdays are not nearly as complex as they were a few years ago |
| 15:09.45 | prpplague | cadsoft seems to be down for me |
| 15:10.00 | T0mW | ccjoe: you use the autorouter? |
| 15:10.34 | ccjoe | just like you do, just to get a feel |
| 15:10.40 | T0mW | nod |
| 15:10.54 | T0mW | I don't know many people who will swear by them |
| 15:11.06 | prpplague | ~nslookup www.cadsoft.de |
| 15:11.19 | T0mW | the only ones that have usually don't do good work to begin with |
| 15:12.01 | T0mW | prpplague: I can reach www.cadsoft.de here |
| 15:12.19 | T0mW | prpplague: heh, last night I lost 50% of the internet for a while |
| 15:12.46 | T0mW | I was like WTF, I can get here but not there, heh |
| 15:13.20 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:13.23 | prpplague | no go for me |
| 15:13.24 | T0mW | ccjoe: I haven't seen you around here before, what do you do? Embedded stuff? |
| 15:13.24 | prpplague | :( |
| 15:13.56 | T0mW | prpplague: another reason to live in the middle of nowhere |
| 15:14.37 | prpplague | T0mW: ?? |
| 15:15.51 | T0mW | prpplague: poor internet stuff |
| 15:16.04 | ccjoe | T0mW: yes, hardware and firmware |
| 15:16.17 | prpplague | T0mW: 1.44 for $12USD doesn't strike me as poor |
| 15:16.21 | T0mW | prpplague: looks like I'm going to recover the material cost of the Zipit Add-on boards, sold seven so far |
| 15:16.28 | prpplague | T0mW: be i get your point |
| 15:16.33 | prpplague | T0mW: cool |
| 15:16.53 | T0mW | got three here today to mod |
| 15:17.11 | ccjoe | we generally develop custom products for companies and manufacture them |
| 15:19.08 | prpplague | ccjoe: talk to jeff lately? |
| 15:19.17 | prpplague | ccjoe: i've not heard from him in ages |
| 15:21.32 | prpplague | T0mW: what ip address are you getting for cadsoft? |
| 15:22.14 | T0mW | ccjoe: heh, I worked 8 years doing hardware and software for a small company in NJ which sold Security equipment, most of our stuff was customized. |
| 15:23.29 | prpplague | hmm, must be just me |
| 15:28.21 | CosmicPenguin | he wasn't kidding |
| 15:28.29 | chouimat | hehe |
| 15:32.01 | chouimat | T0mW: I managed to get a nice 14 hours of sleep last night |
| 15:35.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: can you reach http://www.cadsoft.de? |
| 15:35.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: can you reach http://www.cadsoft.de ? |
| 15:36.27 | CosmicPenguin | yep |
| 15:37.36 | prpplague | crap |
| 15:38.18 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: ever tried the --standard-vga switch ? |
| 15:38.22 | CosmicPenguin | yes |
| 15:38.27 | CosmicPenguin | the problem is that the VESA modes aren't enabled |
| 15:38.35 | CosmicPenguin | so vesafb gets pissed |
| 15:41.02 | *** join/#edev gandhijee (n=gandhije@mail.win-ent.com) |
| 15:41.19 | CosmicPenguin | I don't think people use vesafb with qemu |
| 15:41.26 | CosmicPenguin | stupid people - oh, if it doesn't run X it sucks ohhh! |
| 15:41.31 | CosmicPenguin | ~lart them all |
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| 15:42.56 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 15:47.02 | CosmicPenguin | chouimat: anyway, I don't really care - but there are those who don't have framebuffers, and I want them to particpate in the development of the OLPC rom |
| 15:49.03 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: make sense ... |
| 15:50.58 | prpplague | chouimat: easy on the language |
| 15:51.15 | prpplague | chouimat: trying to keep the biz proxy's from getting us blocked |
| 15:52.05 | chouimat | prpplague: sorry ... I'm really pissed off by their packaging so ... |
| 15:58.39 | chouimat | shit!!! another monitor just died!!! |
| 15:58.58 | prpplague | chouimat: d00d |
| 15:59.35 | prpplague | ~lart chouimat for making the proxies turn red with bad words |
| 15:59.36 | chouimat | prpplague: worked correctly ... the pins seems to be crushed :( |
| 15:59.59 | prpplague | chouimat: doh |
| 16:00.16 | prpplague | chouimat: time for to get the soldering iron out |
| 16:01.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, the only thing that keeps me from using something other than x on some of my stuff is the availability of apps |
| 16:01.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if can get away with using something else i do |
| 16:02.01 | prpplague | chouimat: had a hard drive fail last night, second in a month |
| 16:02.35 | prpplague | ahh cadsoft.de now is reachable |
| 16:05.23 | chouimat | prpplague: will simply use another monitor from another workstation whe I will need to reboot and reinstall those computers :( |
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| 16:14.03 | CosmicPenguin | I'm doing my buildrom in GIT, but when I make changes to the individual patches I use quilt |
| 16:14.08 | CosmicPenguin | its breaking my brain! |
| 16:23.27 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: yea something isn't making sense to me |
| 16:23.43 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: take two pads in layout |
| 16:23.51 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: use route with one, and wire with the other |
| 16:24.11 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: identifical layout, but the DRC complains about the wire, but not the route |
| 16:25.22 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: its like it doesn't understand that the wires are connected |
| 16:25.38 | T0mW`busy | wire has no sex |
| 16:25.49 | T0mW`busy | it is neuter |
| 16:26.19 | T0mW`busy | it is not a connection, merely a glamorous symbol having no meaning other than to "look nice" |
| 16:26.39 | T0mW`busy | a "route" has an electrical identity |
| 16:26.48 | T0mW`busy | a "wire" has no such identity |
| 16:26.55 | T0mW`busy | hence, the DRC error |
| 16:27.26 | T0mW`busy | probably a better name for a "wire" should have been "line" |
| 16:27.47 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: well that sucks, how are you suppose to replicate ? |
| 16:27.56 | T0mW`busy | think of the wire as actually being a line, you cannot connect things with lines, only wires |
| 16:27.59 | T0mW`busy | er |
| 16:28.01 | T0mW`busy | routes |
| 16:28.12 | T0mW`busy | sigh |
| 16:28.17 | T0mW`busy | replicate what? |
| 16:28.36 | prpplague | i have the same shape of bus i want to replicate 30 times |
| 16:29.09 | T0mW`busy | your context of thinking / perspective has to change |
| 16:29.31 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: ok,so what i'm doing wrong? |
| 16:29.33 | T0mW`busy | from your perspective you are thinking of the traces on the PCB as merely copper images |
| 16:29.36 | T0mW`busy | they are not |
| 16:30.08 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: yea, got that, what i'm frustrated with is the fact that i have 30 identical items , that i can't just cut-n-paste for |
| 16:30.13 | T0mW`busy | from the perspective of the Eagle, the traces are complex images having meaning in various contexts |
| 16:30.32 | T0mW`busy | you can cut & paste, but, you do it this way: |
| 16:31.00 | T0mW`busy | first, break the route at each endpoint so that it is not connected to a pin at either end |
| 16:31.12 | prpplague | ok |
| 16:31.28 | T0mW`busy | then it loses the identity of having a netname associated with a pin connection / net connnection |
| 16:32.01 | prpplague | ok |
| 16:32.09 | T0mW`busy | group the traces you want to copy / replicate, then cut & paste, drop the mass of traces near where you want them on the pcb |
| 16:32.43 | T0mW`busy | if you query these new traces with the "identity", you will find that they assumed new network (net) names |
| 16:33.09 | T0mW`busy | this is as it should be, they represent a unique network of connectiviity |
| 16:33.34 | T0mW`busy | now, you can route those dangling endpoints to the new pins |
| 16:34.02 | prpplague | hmm, paste says "skipped unsuitable items" |
| 16:34.59 | T0mW`busy | the act of copy & paste of items and dropping the new parts onto a schematic causes the cad package to note that there are naming conflicts, since the operation is desirable, the cad package will rename those items names which are in conflict with existing names. |
| 16:35.21 | T0mW`busy | read "parts" as "routes" for whichever context you do this in. |
| 16:35.31 | T0mW`busy | schematic / layout |
| 16:37.19 | prpplague | ahh, no i can use wires i just need to set the name to correct signal |
| 16:39.52 | T0mW`busy | what is "name"? do you mean "net name"? |
| 16:41.31 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: you can also override the trace name by routing from the pin, in which case the route you start at that pin will assume the net name associated with the pin, route up to the bus thingy you just pasted and tack the new route onto the end of the pasted one. |
| 16:41.39 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: the icon marked "R2" |
| 16:42.16 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: then you will probably be asked "connect X with Y" and probably asked "What name to use for this connection?" and it will suggest a couple |
| 16:43.17 | T0mW`busy | either name you choose will now be backannotated into the schematic, so if you change the name of the network on that pin to something it is not in the schematic (schematic label), the schematic will show the new name |
| 16:43.47 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: no, thats not what i'm talking about |
| 16:43.58 | T0mW`busy | likewise, if you edit a trace and rename it, that name will show up for that connection in the schematic: back annotated |
| 16:44.24 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: if you draw a standard wire, which has no name, you just provide the name its suppose to use and DRC assumes its connected |
| 16:44.36 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: I'm just warning you of what might be a potential problem for you if you are not aware of backanno capablities |
| 16:45.20 | T0mW`busy | yes, true, you can assign a "sex" to a wire |
| 16:45.56 | T0mW`busy | if you start a wire, DEAD CENTER on a pin, DEAD CENTER, it will assume the netname of that pin |
| 16:46.02 | T0mW`busy | DEAD CENTER |
| 16:46.05 | davidc__ | prpplague: heh. DIE :P |
| 16:46.10 | prpplague | davidc__: hehe |
| 16:46.14 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: yea |
| 16:46.25 | T0mW`busy | that's why I ROUTE and not WIRE |
| 16:46.40 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: yea, that still leaves the problem of replicate |
| 16:46.57 | T0mW`busy | routing will snap the trace to the center of the pins / traces I wish to connect with, wire won't do that |
| 16:47.38 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: on the layout, do you see the ratnest wire that is on that pin? |
| 16:47.55 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: yea, what i'm trying to learn to do is be able to replicate the same wire over and over |
| 16:48.04 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: yea, i got the ratsnest routing down |
| 16:48.09 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: and I'm teaching you that |
| 16:48.27 | T0mW`busy | now, query that rat with the IDENTITY to find it's name |
| 16:48.29 | T0mW`busy | net name |
| 16:48.43 | T0mW`busy | n$XX or "A0" whatever |
| 16:48.50 | T0mW`busy | got the name? |
| 16:49.13 | prpplague | yep |
| 16:49.23 | T0mW`busy | ok, clik on "NAME" |
| 16:49.33 | prpplague | ok |
| 16:49.33 | T0mW`busy | then clik on the new route |
| 16:49.44 | prpplague | ok |
| 16:49.45 | T0mW`busy | and set the name of that route to that of the rat |
| 16:49.55 | T0mW`busy | then clik on "RATSNEST" |
| 16:50.22 | T0mW`busy | do you see that that rat wire now shows that a route should be made now to that trace? |
| 16:51.49 | T0mW`busy | by renaming the copied trace to the same name as the network name of the pin, you now associate that new trace (the copied one) with part of the electrical network of that pin |
| 16:52.07 | T0mW`busy | now, you can snap connections between the trace and the pin |
| 16:52.24 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: hmm, that doesn't seem to work, it renames the copied trace as well |
| 16:52.40 | T0mW`busy | huh? |
| 16:52.47 | T0mW`busy | oh |
| 16:53.43 | T0mW`busy | you didn't understand what I just said |
| 16:53.54 | T0mW`busy | go back |
| 16:54.00 | T0mW`busy | we copied these traces |
| 16:54.11 | T0mW`busy | they are sitting on the board now connected to nothing |
| 16:54.16 | T0mW`busy | k? |
| 16:54.51 | T0mW`busy | both ends of these traces are unconnected |
| 16:55.00 | prpplague | made one wire, then used cut copy to make two more |
| 16:55.03 | prpplague | correct |
| 16:55.08 | T0mW`busy | ok |
| 16:55.26 | T0mW`busy | now, let's look at one wire endpoint |
| 16:55.38 | T0mW`busy | we want that wire endpoint to connect to a pin, right? |
| 16:55.57 | prpplague | yea |
| 16:55.58 | T0mW`busy | that pin has a rat on it? correct? |
| 16:56.03 | prpplague | yea |
| 16:56.05 | chouimat | ~lart berkeley db for not working with prelink |
| 16:56.26 | T0mW`busy | query the rat and give me the name of the rat wire that is on that pin |
| 16:56.33 | prpplague | D5 |
| 16:56.35 | T0mW`busy | ok |
| 16:56.50 | T0mW`busy | what is the name currently of the wire trace? |
| 16:56.56 | prpplague | n$1 |
| 16:57.04 | T0mW`busy | ok, change it to D5 |
| 16:57.08 | prpplague | ok |
| 16:57.14 | prpplague | now all three wires are no D5 |
| 16:57.18 | T0mW`busy | press RATSNEST |
| 16:57.23 | prpplague | s/no/now |
| 16:58.22 | T0mW`busy | I just did it |
| 16:58.34 | T0mW`busy | I put a wire in the board, bottom layer. |
| 16:59.01 | T0mW`busy | pressed NAME icon, then LEFT cliked the wire, and changed it's name to that of another net on my board |
| 16:59.08 | prpplague | and all three of the wires have the same name? |
| 16:59.33 | T0mW`busy | it then showed me a new rat that indicated a connection needed to tthat network pair |
| 16:59.45 | prpplague | but are all three wires the same name? |
| 16:59.55 | T0mW`busy | LEFT click when you name, RIGHT click will name the entire group |
| 17:00.19 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:00.20 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: you mean, all three wire segments? |
| 17:00.20 | prpplague | but are all three wires the same name? |
| 17:00.23 | prpplague | yea |
| 17:00.50 | T0mW`busy | why didn't you say do, I was thinking "oh, he has all three seperate traces named the same" |
| 17:00.52 | T0mW`busy | yes |
| 17:01.08 | T0mW`busy | the entire strand is renamed |
| 17:01.17 | prpplague | no, i want three segments with three names |
| 17:01.56 | T0mW`busy | you want a wire composed of three segments, each of those wire segments to have a differing name? |
| 17:02.43 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: hehe, no i have one wire, and i want to copy the wire 2 times so i have 3 identical shaped wires |
| 17:02.52 | T0mW`busy | yeah |
| 17:02.53 | T0mW`busy | ... |
| 17:03.00 | T0mW`busy | ? |
| 17:03.13 | T0mW`busy | so copy it two times |
| 17:03.47 | T0mW`busy | after you copy the wires check their names |
| 17:03.55 | T0mW`busy | the names should all be unique |
| 17:04.15 | T0mW`busy | are they? |
| 17:04.47 | T0mW`busy | you need me to get to you via VNC |
| 17:05.11 | T0mW`busy | then I can watch you do this stuff and stop you when you do something |
| 17:05.32 | prpplague | yea, it looks like replicate does the exact name and every thing |
| 17:05.41 | prpplague | cut-n-paste do unique ids |
| 17:05.48 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: can you give me an ssh account on your machine if I send you my public key? |
| 17:06.08 | prpplague | T0mW`busy:yea |
| 17:08.01 | T0mW`busy | add the contents of that file to your ${HOME}/.ssh/authorized_keys file |
| 17:08.44 | prpplague | yea yea |
| 17:08.57 | prpplague | i got it now, its the terminology thats very no intuitive |
| 17:12.34 | T0mW`busy | prpplague: it is the perspective that you are looking at it from. For me, I've been doing pcb layout for nearly 15 years now. |
| 17:13.47 | T0mW`busy | switching from OrCad and Tango took me a bit to get used to how things are done in Eagle, the same operations basically, only some differences |
| 17:14.10 | T0mW`busy | ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host |
| 17:14.53 | T0mW`busy | what is your user name on your login? |
| 17:15.04 | T0mW`busy | billybob? |
| 17:15.43 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: hehe, i haven't set it up yet, |
| 17:15.53 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: i got it done what i was needing to do |
| 17:16.04 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: i'll set the ssh up after lunch |
| 17:16.05 | T0mW`busy | ok, I've got a customer in Denver today that needs my software |
| 17:16.09 | T0mW`busy | later |
| 17:16.11 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: :P |
| 17:16.14 | prpplague | T0mW`busy: thanks for the help |
| 17:16.18 | T0mW`busy | np |
| 17:19.57 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW`busy: want I should go beat them up for you? |
| 17:21.08 | CosmicPenguin | Hmmm... why would chown return an ENOSYS |
| 17:25.32 | chouimat | ok bbl ... need to get rid of kubuntu on my laptop ... |
| 17:26.15 | T0mW`busy | CosmicPenguin: naw, The customer sends me money |
| 17:26.39 | T0mW`busy | CosmicPenguin: he helps support my toy-habit |
| 17:35.28 | prpplague | samrobb_: when did you sneak in? |
| 17:36.36 | prpplague | samrobb_: i meant to ask if you are the same "sam robb" that did a presentation at 2004 OLS? |
| 17:50.02 | jbevren | live show starts at the top of the hour hehe |
| 17:51.12 | prpplague | jbevren: "slay radio" ? |
| 17:52.34 | CosmicPenguin | heh - or OLPC |
| 17:52.45 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (i=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-60.intrastar.net) |
| 17:52.50 | jbevren | prpplague: add a supercap from sparkfun |
| 17:52.53 | jbevren | (or two) |
| 17:52.58 | jbevren | a few cranks to charge the cap up and go |
| 17:52.59 | jbevren | hehe |
| 17:53.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: isn;t old plc gonna get a string pull charger? |
| 17:53.40 | CosmicPenguin | among others |
| 17:53.45 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:53.59 | CosmicPenguin | Some of them look like bad excercise scams from the 80s |
| 17:54.01 | prpplague | wonder what kind of voltage you could get out of that |
| 17:54.06 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:54.36 | prpplague | oh somafm has a new channel |
| 17:54.57 | prpplague | Doomed - NEW! Dark industrial-inspired music for tortured souls. |
| 18:26.26 | *** join/#edev chouimat (n=ubuntu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 18:26.38 | flyback | prpplague why don't you use a forever flashlight to power your arm device |
| 18:26.46 | flyback | after it it suits the wanker than you are |
| 18:26.56 | flyback | :P |
| 18:27.14 | flyback | seriously though I seen some better gens for around the same price |
| 18:28.16 | flyback | http://www.surpluscomputers.com/IMAGES_PRODUCT/CPM10371_MD.JPG |
| 18:28.18 | flyback | doh |
| 18:28.31 | flyback | http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetail&item=CPM10373 |
| 18:28.33 | flyback | there |
| 18:28.35 | flyback | that's insane |
| 18:28.49 | flyback | you could stick a 64 meg chip on every embedded project you have almost for logging and stuff |
| 18:30.54 | flyback | whoa |
| 18:30.59 | flyback | two 256mb cf for $19 |
| 18:33.26 | *** join/#edev redb1ue (i=star@ppp063.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 18:44.39 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (i=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-60.intrastar.net) |
| 18:45.29 | *** join/#edev mallum (n=mallum@host81-132-227-111.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:45.32 | mallum | hey |
| 18:45.41 | prpplague | mallum: greetings and welcome |
| 18:45.50 | mallum | :) |
| 18:46.33 | prpplague | mallum: we are kind of a happy medium between hardcode professional dev and hobbists |
| 18:46.45 | mallum | nice |
| 18:46.46 | prpplague | s/hardcode/hardcore |
| 18:47.40 | prpplague | mallum: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/PixterMultimedia |
| 18:47.54 | prpplague | mallum: working on getting a nice gui running on that |
| 18:48.10 | mallum | oooh |
| 18:50.02 | prpplague | mallum: and.... my first complete product for the company i'm working for now - http://www.amltd.com/M5900.asp |
| 18:50.08 | prpplague | mallum: goes on sale monday |
| 18:50.44 | jbevren | prpplague: ah, it wasnt in production |
| 18:50.46 | jbevren | I didnt realize that |
| 18:51.09 | prpplague | jbevren: started the desing in january |
| 18:51.14 | mallum | prpplague: in barbados still ? |
| 18:51.18 | prpplague | jbevren: went to product the first of july |
| 18:51.22 | prpplague | mallum: yea |
| 18:51.29 | prpplague | mallum: working on going back to the states |
| 18:51.34 | prpplague | mallum: had all the fun i can stand |
| 18:51.36 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:52.08 | prpplague | jbevren: idea to reality in just 6 months |
| 18:52.44 | mallum | prpplague: back to texas ? |
| 18:52.50 | prpplague | yea |
| 18:53.25 | prpplague | mallum: still getting good biz from nokia? |
| 18:54.03 | jbevren | prpplague: thats pretty effin fast |
| 18:54.24 | mallum | prpplague: yeah still doing a bit, some other things too |
| 18:54.34 | mallum | prpplague: going pretty good |
| 18:54.45 | prpplague | mallum: cool |
| 18:55.09 | prpplague | mallum: should have plenty of $$ to buy lots of PotA collectables then, hehe |
| 18:56.15 | prpplague | mallum: you doing some work on the OLPC? |
| 18:56.48 | mallum | prpplague: have a baby due in 4 weeks ;) no money for pota |
| 18:57.14 | prpplague | mallum: doh |
| 18:57.17 | mallum | prpplague: helping out n a few minor bits on OLPC, spare rather than work time though |
| 18:57.26 | prpplague | ahh |
| 18:57.34 | prpplague | mallum: first one? |
| 18:58.41 | mallum | yeap |
| 18:58.43 | mallum | scray stuff |
| 18:58.47 | mallum | scary |
| 18:58.53 | mallum | but exciting too |
| 18:59.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:59.56 | prpplague | mallum: got a good digital camera i hope |
| 19:00.39 | flyback | give me a few mins prpplague |
| 19:00.44 | flyback | i'll see if I can find that gen link |
| 19:01.01 | prpplague | flyback: what? |
| 19:01.14 | flyback | abotu the same price as that flashlight |
| 19:01.17 | flyback | but nicer |
| 19:01.23 | prpplague | gen != generator |
| 19:01.32 | flyback | http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=P2P-LG&cpc=SCH |
| 19:01.58 | flyback | Capacity: DC5V 300mA at 90 pumps per minute |
| 19:02.36 | prpplague | thats alot |
| 19:02.49 | flyback | cool :) |
| 19:03.06 | flyback | it's abs + aluminum also |
| 19:03.11 | flyback | so should hold up a while |
| 19:03.25 | flyback | Powerful Nd-Fe-B micro generator |
| 19:03.27 | flyback | OH YEAH! |
| 19:03.37 | flyback | that's the good stuff baby |
| 19:04.19 | flyback | yeah what's the average arm7 power pull? 100ma? |
| 19:05.00 | prpplague | yea about that |
| 19:05.02 | mallum | prpplague: yeah have to buy wife a canon eos or summin |
| 19:05.16 | prpplague | mallum: ahh cool |
| 19:05.41 | flyback | prpp then if you use a few super caps to grab the power then slow pump it into a lion cell |
| 19:05.47 | flyback | you should get some good runtime I bet |
| 19:06.53 | flyback | prpplague did yuo ever see the sdio video out card for some pda's ? |
| 19:07.34 | flyback | it's on compgeeks if you care to search later |
| 19:08.30 | prpplague | yea, i've seen it all |
| 19:08.44 | prpplague | flyback: problem is 1) SDIO 2) proprietary protocols |
| 19:08.51 | jbevren | nod :P |
| 19:09.04 | flyback | oh I thought we have sdio info now |
| 19:09.10 | flyback | 2) can't do anything about |
| 19:09.20 | prpplague | flyback: only a "brief summary" |
| 19:09.38 | flyback | oh :/ |
| 19:09.57 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: but enough to implement the protocol |
| 19:10.08 | CosmicPenguin | But the problem is that nobody is stupid enough to tell us how their cards work |
| 19:10.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 19:11.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just meant that its not worth wading through the "brief" summary to get to a that point |
| 19:11.29 | flyback | I figured you guys are smart enuogh to figure out the rest from the summary |
| 19:11.32 | flyback | :/ |
| 19:11.51 | CosmicPenguin | I think pierre has made great progress |
| 19:14.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, i figured there would be, its just not enough incentive for me to dig into it right now |
| 19:15.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if i know of some 802.11b/g cards that the vendors were willing to help with i'd get into myself |
| 19:15.22 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (n=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-58.intrastar.net) |
| 19:15.38 | flyback | is atheos/ |
| 19:16.00 | flyback | j4k3 didn't you say atheos? was giving out full specs on their wireless chips or something |
| 19:16.59 | J4k3 | No. |
| 19:17.05 | J4k3 | *nobody* gives out full specs |
| 19:17.08 | flyback | oh :/ |
| 19:17.31 | prpplague | i have 4 evals here for sdio/spi based wireless, all of which i had to sign major NDA's on |
| 19:17.42 | prpplague | they don't want anyone knowing about the sdio stuff |
| 19:19.36 | J4k3 | the entire 802.11 industry is a bunch of scared noobs |
| 19:21.31 | MonMotha | is there any ACTUAL reason for that? All I ever get are (mostly) BS FCC requirements |
| 19:21.37 | J4k3 | yeah |
| 19:21.44 | J4k3 | its called paranoia |
| 19:21.48 | J4k3 | thats the only reason why |
| 19:21.52 | J4k3 | the FCC is *not* the reason |
| 19:22.19 | prpplague | the first company that opens their specs for a sdio/spi based 802.11 is gonna sell a million of them |
| 19:22.31 | prpplague | over night |
| 19:23.12 | MonMotha | hell I'd probably find some stuff to design them into |
| 19:23.46 | MonMotha | it's all low-volume, but 10000 low volume products are as good or better than 20 high volume in terms of sheer units sold |
| 19:24.08 | J4k3 | prpplague: I think the only way we're going to get any "openness" is to come out with an "open source" radio chipset. |
| 19:24.09 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 19:24.14 | J4k3 | where the HAL itself is OSS from the get-go. |
| 19:24.28 | prpplague | J4k3: thats gonna be very hard to do |
| 19:24.43 | J4k3 | prpplague: yes and no. |
| 19:24.50 | MonMotha | I don't care about open source reference designs. I just want freaking API info |
| 19:24.57 | prpplague | MonMotha: exactly |
| 19:25.01 | MonMotha | I don't need to know how to make the chip |
| 19:25.10 | J4k3 | MonMotha: to get API info, you're going to have to cut the idiots out of the equation |
| 19:25.12 | MonMotha | I just want to know what all the pins do and how to talk to it |
| 19:25.24 | J4k3 | (ie - broadcom/atheros/intersil-conexant/etc) |
| 19:25.38 | prpplague | J4k3: don't forget marvel and phillips |
| 19:26.01 | J4k3 | ugh marvel... never messed with a phillips 802.11 device |
| 19:26.14 | MonMotha | is Intel still making their own 802.11 stuff or are they OEMing them from someone else, now? |
| 19:26.19 | MonMotha | (or did they always?) |
| 19:26.56 | prpplague | http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/products/connectivity/wlan/ |
| 19:27.59 | prpplague | the closed source linux driver costs around $75k |
| 19:28.03 | J4k3 | afaik intel uses their own chips |
| 19:28.23 | J4k3 | $75k... how about I pay that with a not-so-good credit card, and post it to usenet? :P |
| 19:28.45 | prpplague | hehe, doesn't do much good if its not compilied for your hardware |
| 19:29.38 | gandhijee | @prpplague: they have close linux drivers? |
| 19:29.44 | gandhijee | *closed |
| 19:29.45 | J4k3 | ok... hack their developers boxes and post the source code to usenet? :) |
| 19:29.58 | gandhijee | i know there is the ipw2200 stuff |
| 19:30.03 | gandhijee | they seem to work pretty good |
| 19:32.04 | prpplague | ahh mini-pci |
| 19:32.09 | prpplague | naw, looking for sdio or spi |
| 19:33.18 | flyback | unless this is some big fed conspiracy |
| 19:33.27 | flyback | they don't want open drivers in the hands of terrorists or soemthing |
| 19:33.39 | J4k3 | oh god |
| 19:33.39 | J4k3 | TERRORISTS!! OMG STOP THE WORLD! |
| 19:33.40 | J4k3 | pussies |
| 19:33.48 | flyback | yeah I know |
| 19:33.58 | flyback | I am fed with with the shutdown the world attitude of the feds too |
| 19:34.09 | flyback | espically now that they are freaking over tech in the process |
| 19:34.14 | CosmicPenguin | Somehow I don't think they care about open source drivers or not |
| 19:34.20 | MonMotha | freedfm is very handy if you use 4pcb for board making. Their DRC is much more in-depth than mine |
| 19:34.33 | flyback | CosmicPenguin the way they been talking lately I wonder anymore : |
| 19:34.34 | *** join/#edev sorphin (n=dans@mewp.captainrock.com) |
| 19:34.34 | *** mode/#edev [+o sorphin] by ChanServ |
| 19:34.50 | sorphin | http://wibble.captainrock.com:8090/thewreckedZ/ |
| 19:34.55 | CosmicPenguin | flyback: in fact, if you think they care abouyt virtually anything you do, you're wrong |
| 19:35.03 | sorphin | so i'm carless atm |
| 19:35.04 | J4k3 | heres a hint - industry has been scared forever, our government has only been entirely stupid for about 60 years now. |
| 19:35.08 | flyback | dude they want all routers backdoored |
| 19:35.14 | flyback | they are demanding that this happen |
| 19:35.28 | J4k3 | no, they're not. |
| 19:35.46 | J4k3 | actually quite the opposite from what I can tell |
| 19:35.53 | flyback | dude I saw the proposal the other day |
| 19:35.59 | sorphin | heh |
| 19:36.04 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: what did you do? |
| 19:36.05 | J4k3 | although if the federal government was concerned about national security, they'd be incarcerating half of Microsoft at this point. |
| 19:36.10 | J4k3 | the half that writes crappy code. |
| 19:36.14 | flyback | oh I agree |
| 19:36.20 | flyback | and backdooring shit will only make it worse |
| 19:36.23 | flyback | hence my concern |
| 19:36.23 | J4k3 | yep |
| 19:36.30 | sorphin | CP|Home: I was on my way to pick up something and some bozo chick who was supposed to yield at the light (both directions green), she was going left, she turned right as i was at the intersection |
| 19:36.32 | J4k3 | anything the feds can do anyone else can do better. |
| 19:36.35 | CosmicPenguin | Watch the langauge - prpplague's proxy is the real evil here |
| 19:36.35 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: see above |
| 19:36.50 | flyback | sorry |
| 19:36.50 | J4k3 | if you've ever worked with a "tech crime" FBI agent, you'd realize how entirely useless backdooring anything for them would be. |
| 19:36.53 | CosmicPenguin | I saw the picture, I want to know how it went down |
| 19:36.54 | J4k3 | they're too stupid to telnet. |
| 19:37.08 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: i said,,, it went to CP:Home |
| 19:37.11 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: I was on my way to pick up something and some bozo chick who was supposed to yield at the light (both directions green), she was going left, she turned right as i was at the intersection |
| 19:37.29 | CosmicPenguin | ahh, bad |
| 19:37.31 | sorphin | i had no where to go |
| 19:37.32 | CosmicPenguin | I got hit that way too |
| 19:37.40 | sorphin | except to hold the brakes |
| 19:37.43 | sorphin | hold the wheel |
| 19:37.51 | sorphin | and say 'oh crap this is gonna hurt' |
| 19:38.19 | prpplague | sorphin: hehe |
| 19:38.24 | flyback | to be honest i'd like to help the feds catch every crooks there is, espically child molestors, but breaking the security for everyone so they can snoop is NOT a good solution |
| 19:38.52 | prpplague | sorphin: wow nice care |
| 19:38.54 | prpplague | care |
| 19:38.55 | prpplague | argh |
| 19:38.57 | prpplague | car |
| 19:39.08 | J4k3 | I think the federal government could start by providing a decent example |
| 19:39.09 | sorphin | it used to be |
| 19:39.11 | flyback | TIME OUT! |
| 19:39.23 | prpplague | J4k3 / flyback this is off topic |
| 19:39.30 | J4k3 | who cares if some weirdo is out molesting kids while our government is ripping their limbs off with bombs. |
| 19:39.37 | flyback | prpplague actually it kinda chimes in |
| 19:39.46 | flyback | to the whole drm, trusted platform, etc stuff |
| 19:40.03 | *** part/#edev J4k3 (n=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-58.intrastar.net) |
| 19:40.04 | prpplague | J4k3 / flyback its off topic |
| 19:40.07 | sorphin | no one's gonna backdoor any routers |
| 19:40.12 | sorphin | no one will use them |
| 19:40.31 | flyback | well if you listen to that NAZI gonzaeles |
| 19:40.32 | sorphin | hell, XO is pissed at AT&T for funneling off our traffic |
| 19:40.34 | flyback | he doesn't seem to care |
| 19:40.40 | sorphin | but anyways |
| 19:40.48 | sorphin | it's irrelevant |
| 19:41.26 | flyback | I bring these things up because I am concerned it's all going to lead to a total ban on tinkering |
| 19:41.32 | flyback | and/or every chip and circuit being a black box |
| 19:41.41 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (n=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-58.intrastar.net) |
| 19:42.10 | sorphin | wont' happen |
| 19:42.36 | flyback | never underestimate the stupidity of congress bro |
| 19:43.33 | prpplague | sorphin: mind if i ask how much you paid for your car? |
| 19:43.39 | sorphin | 35,595 |
| 19:43.43 | flyback | and then they force other countries to adope our rules such as the dmca if they want to trade with us |
| 19:44.00 | prpplague | sorphin: wow |
| 19:44.31 | MonMotha | I think that's the first time I've submitted a board for a DFM check and it came back immediately with not a single thing to fix |
| 19:44.49 | sorphin | MonMotha: wow |
| 19:44.53 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe |
| 19:44.57 | flyback | anyways hopefully I am dead stupid wrong |
| 19:45.00 | flyback | I would be glad to be |
| 19:45.20 | prpplague | MonMotha: has two traces and a jumper on it eh? |
| 19:46.25 | MonMotha | prpplague: actually, it's got a fair bit of stuff on it, but it's overall still fairly simple |
| 19:46.39 | prpplague | sorphin: you must have some awesome credit |
| 19:46.52 | MonMotha | https://www.freedfm.com/freedfm/0008210201436020/results/l1.pdf is the top copper |
| 19:47.20 | agaffney | prpplague: how so, out of curiosity? |
| 19:47.21 | MonMotha | prpplague: why would this require credit? these are automated checks, but they're pretty harsh most of the time |
| 19:47.38 | MonMotha | when I actually submit the order and pay on my CC, then a person actually looks at it :) |
| 19:48.10 | sorphin | prpplague: in the 700s |
| 19:48.18 | CosmicPenguin | my damn wife is above 800 |
| 19:48.23 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe, i was talking about sorphin's $30k car |
| 19:48.25 | CosmicPenguin | she lords it over me too |
| 19:48.37 | agaffney | my credit is in the 700s last time I checked |
| 19:48.38 | sorphin | CP|Home: well, i have too much debt atm |
| 19:48.39 | sorphin | so.. |
| 19:48.50 | CosmicPenguin | Im in the 700s |
| 19:48.51 | J4k3 | I'm in the high 700s... and drive a 5 year old Hyundai. |
| 19:48.55 | agaffney | my wife's was in the 600s, but she's not had anything credit-building as long as I have |
| 19:49.03 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 19:49.17 | agaffney | I bought a 2003 Chevy S-10 last September |
| 19:49.31 | agaffney | only ~$196/month for 3 (or was it 5) years |
| 19:49.38 | sorphin | well, this was my 'dream' car |
| 19:49.43 | sorphin | and since i was finally able to afford it |
| 19:49.44 | MonMotha | prpplague: ah |
| 19:49.47 | prpplague | agaffney: my ex-wife during the divorce ran up all my credit cards, and then didn't pay them off |
| 19:49.52 | agaffney | prpplague: ah, fun |
| 19:49.55 | prpplague | agaffney: took me ages to get out of debt |
| 19:49.55 | MonMotha | prpplague: makes a lot more sense that way |
| 19:49.56 | sorphin | prpplague: my wife can't do that |
| 19:50.03 | sorphin | we're not on eachother's cards |
| 19:50.08 | agaffney | sorphin: smart move :P |
| 19:50.12 | agaffney | same with my wife and I |
| 19:50.18 | agaffney | but that's just because we had the cards before we got married |
| 19:50.19 | sorphin | agaffney: get this |
| 19:50.24 | sorphin | know where i was on my way to? |
| 19:50.34 | agaffney | no, I can't say that I do |
| 19:50.36 | agaffney | :P |
| 19:50.39 | sorphin | EPC |
| 19:50.49 | J4k3 | sorphin: I rented my dream car for 3 days and realized it was also my worst nightmare :) |
| 19:50.55 | sorphin | ah |
| 19:50.59 | sorphin | what is/was it? |
| 19:51.10 | prpplague | agaffney: plus when she was in the house(which i got in the divorce later) she was suppose to be making the house payments with the monthly support i was paying her, and she wasn't |
| 19:51.14 | J4k3 | I'd always wanted a 911 |
| 19:51.20 | J4k3 | (porsche) |
| 19:51.25 | prpplague | agaffney: i didn't find out until about 90 days before they were gonna repo the house |
| 19:51.33 | agaffney | prpplague: fun :/ |
| 19:51.34 | sorphin | J4k3: ah.. i always wanted a Z car |
| 19:51.38 | prpplague | agaffney: had to go an make like 6 months of payments at one time |
| 19:51.45 | agaffney | sorphin: umm, ok...what about EPC? :P |
| 19:51.47 | prpplague | agaffney: totally screwed my credit |
| 19:51.52 | agaffney | I bet |
| 19:51.56 | prpplague | agaffney: i doubt it will ever recover |
| 19:51.58 | sorphin | agaffney: i was on my way to EPC when i wrecked |
| 19:52.15 | J4k3 | sorphin: yeah, I'd like a 240z... the one without a 'big' rear bumper. |
| 19:52.18 | agaffney | sorphin: oh, you got in an accident? I must have missed that part of the conversation :P |
| 19:52.21 | sorphin | missy offered to go up there earlier and pick up the toner i 'won' |
| 19:52.39 | prpplague | with the exception of owing about $5k on my car, i don;t have any debts :) |
| 19:52.43 | agaffney | sorphin: you nab it on one of the BIT auctions? |
| 19:52.53 | sorphin | BIT? |
| 19:53.09 | agaffney | buy-it-now |
| 19:53.14 | prpplague | MonMotha: nice looking board, good work |
| 19:53.27 | agaffney | sorphin: they run a bunch of auctions on ebay for their stuff |
| 19:53.33 | sorphin | agaffney: nah, it ended at $7.50 for a new reman toner cartridge |
| 19:53.35 | sorphin | right |
| 19:53.36 | sorphin | i know |
| 19:53.40 | agaffney | ah |
| 19:53.49 | agaffney | I need to go up there and pick up some SCA drives |
| 19:53.50 | MonMotha | prpplague: not anywhere near the most complicated I've done, that's for sure |
| 19:54.01 | agaffney | $5 for 9GB, $10 for $18, $20 for 36GB |
| 19:54.13 | sorphin | agaffney: heh, i bought off ebay from a guy locally who sold me an IBM 18.2G |
| 19:54.16 | sorphin | $10 |
| 19:54.21 | sorphin | he as more |
| 19:54.32 | agaffney | they're only got a few 36GB, but they've got a ton of the 9GB and 18GB |
| 19:54.37 | sorphin | nod |
| 19:54.39 | agaffney | oh, and that was "$10 for 18GB" above :) |
| 19:54.55 | agaffney | EPC is the same price and has a 30-day guarantee :P |
| 19:54.57 | sorphin | i know |
| 19:55.07 | sorphin | i've bought a drive from EPC |
| 19:55.12 | sorphin | it died fast |
| 19:55.17 | sorphin | oh |
| 19:55.18 | agaffney | well, they *are* used |
| 19:55.20 | sorphin | speaking of things dying |
| 19:55.25 | agaffney | o_O |
| 19:55.33 | flyback | * prpplague 's divorce destroyed his credit |
| 19:55.36 | flyback | UHH WTF? |
| 19:55.37 | flyback | WHEN? |
| 19:55.38 | sorphin | agaffney: i had bought 3 of those Scientific 2U cases |
| 19:55.44 | prpplague | flyback: when what? |
| 19:55.49 | sorphin | one of them, the PSU just smoked |
| 19:55.58 | agaffney | sorphin: I've never heard of the brand |
| 19:56.03 | flyback | divorced |
| 19:56.05 | agaffney | but I don't really shop for rack cases |
| 19:56.23 | sorphin | agaffney: not a brand, no idea who made the case, that's who was using them |
| 19:56.32 | prpplague | flyback: about 4 years ago |
| 19:56.32 | sorphin | Western Scientific |
| 19:56.42 | agaffney | ah |
| 19:56.59 | sorphin | they had empty cases, and some w/ boards still in |
| 19:57.04 | sorphin | bought 3 empties |
| 19:57.11 | agaffney | ah |
| 19:58.12 | flyback | prpplague oh I thought it was your curren tone only I was like wtf? |
| 19:58.17 | flyback | you moved cause of her :P |
| 19:59.59 | flyback | I dunno if I could survive one |
| 20:07.17 | MonMotha | wow, Advanced Circuits' website is broke-ass |
| 20:08.20 | *** join/#edev dfarnsworth (n=dfarnswo@65.200.49.156) |
| 20:10.23 | MonMotha | but of course it works in IE... |
| 20:10.37 | flyback | gay |
| 20:12.08 | flyback | well my aunt and uncle are both going to have to learn to deal with web sites that are broken in firefox cause I am locking out their msie since they are both on 98se and there is no more security fixes |
| 20:12.58 | MonMotha | the strange thing is it usually works in FF |
| 20:13.04 | MonMotha | and the issues were entirely server side |
| 20:13.11 | MonMotha | the browser was behaving exactly correctly |
| 20:14.37 | prpplague | MonMotha: did i telly you i found a TI part for my 5v boost? |
| 20:18.44 | *** join/#edev FireEgl (i=Atlantic@Atlantica.IRCNut.Com) |
| 21:24.40 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (i=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-60.intrastar.net) |
| 21:29.30 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@69.73.217.172) |
| 21:36.12 | prpplague | ~seen samrobb_ |
| 21:36.18 | purl | samrobb_ is currently on #edev #uclibc #elinux, last said: 'Ah! Great - thanks.'. |
| 21:36.49 | MonMotha | prpplague: yeah, I didn't go in to the office today. The TI part should work, but you'll have trouble soldering that package |
| 21:37.21 | prpplague | yea thats what i was worried about |
| 21:37.35 | prpplague | MonMotha: i was thinking of looking for something from linear |
| 21:37.52 | prpplague | MonMotha: you seen the max1866? |
| 21:38.30 | MonMotha | let me look at that |
| 21:38.33 | MonMotha | look at the NCP1400 from ON |
| 21:38.50 | MonMotha | SOT23s are quite doable, especially compared to exposed pad QFNs |
| 21:39.23 | MonMotha | you can only get 100mA from the NCP1400, but it's otherwise very good for battery apps |
| 21:39.28 | MonMotha | do you need full 500mA USB? |
| 21:40.20 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, my intention was to be able to run a 802.11b dongle |
| 21:40.20 | MonMotha | ah, ok then |
| 21:40.23 | MonMotha | most of those need more than 100mA |
| 21:40.33 | MonMotha | I'm not seeing a MAX1866 on Maxim's website... |
| 21:40.55 | prpplague | hmm, maybe i wrote the number down wrong |
| 21:41.27 | prpplague | doh |
| 21:41.29 | prpplague | 1566 |
| 21:41.53 | flyback | the email server is situations |
| 21:42.14 | flyback | he's going to try to find someone else to do it, I am helping and going to compensate me for some time I did attempting to get this to work |
| 21:42.46 | flyback | I mean situatied |
| 21:43.50 | MonMotha | prpplague: NCP1450, would need an external FET, though |
| 21:44.21 | MonMotha | prpplague: MAX1566 looks to be overkill, and the package is again not good for hand work |
| 21:44.50 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, i meant in general, would be nice to use in some future projects |
| 21:45.16 | MonMotha | ah, ok |
| 21:45.31 | MonMotha | those QFN packages really are hard to work with |
| 21:46.25 | *** join/#edev chouimat (n=ubuntu@kde/developer/chouinard) |
| 21:47.22 | MonMotha | prpplague: for the diode with that ON part, the MBR120 is pretty nice. 1A, pretty low Vf |
| 21:47.29 | MonMotha | I think it goes down to 0.2-0.3V |
| 21:47.36 | prpplague | MonMotha: ahh |
| 21:48.06 | prpplague | MonMotha: i think i'm gonna prototype the usb host on a seperate board first |
| 21:48.26 | MonMotha | ok |
| 21:48.38 | MonMotha | want me to see if I can get you one of the eval boards for the NCP1450? |
| 21:48.49 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.68.20.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 21:49.04 | prpplague | MonMotha: not right away, maybe in a month or so |
| 21:49.07 | prpplague | MonMotha: thanks |
| 21:49.45 | MonMotha | ok |
| 21:53.17 | prpplague | davidc__: congrads dood |
| 21:53.52 | prpplague | everyone give davidc__ a round of applause for being a first rate hacker and winning the sparkfun camera hack contest!!! |
| 21:55.05 | prpplague | davidc__: wonder if sparkfun is gonna make a good breakout board now? |
| 21:59.46 | prpplague | davidc__: $200 worth of these http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=106 ???? |
| 22:02.47 | MonMotha | hum, freenode is obviously fubar, as usual |
| 22:02.52 | MonMotha | I cannot see davidc__ speaking |
| 22:04.07 | prpplague | MonMotha: me either |
| 22:05.40 | MonMotha | oh, ok |
| 22:05.44 | MonMotha | I thought you were talking to him :) |
| 22:05.58 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe, i just start talking....hehehe |
| 22:06.07 | prpplague | MonMotha: eventually someone will respond, hehe |
| 22:07.46 | jbevren | um |
| 22:07.49 | jbevren | $200 of those |
| 22:07.59 | jbevren | that's um a lot of em |
| 22:08.55 | jbevren | I still like the mini trackball |
| 22:08.56 | jbevren | anyway |
| 22:08.57 | jbevren | I'm out |
| 22:27.01 | *** join/#edev gandhijee (n=gandhije@c-24-147-213-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.26 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 22:28.25 | flyback | prp it's pretty damn amazing all the power controller ic's they have now |
| 22:28.39 | flyback | many with a power transistor built in so yuo don't even need a external one for small currents |
| 22:28.49 | flyback | cheap too |
| 22:52.47 | prpplague | davidc__: ping |
| 23:20.41 | davidc__ | prpplague: around now |
| 23:21.12 | flyback | prpplague quick question |
| 23:21.12 | davidc__ | prpplague: re: breakout boards - they're working on it. |
| 23:21.21 | flyback | who was that girl you said might have aspergers again? |
| 23:21.54 | prpplague | flyback: my step daughter |
| 23:21.57 | flyback | age? |
| 23:21.58 | davidc__ | prpplague: thanks for the props [though unnecessary :P] |
| 23:22.18 | prpplague | davidc__: the PtP you noted in your read me is Peak-to-Peak correct? |
| 23:22.23 | davidc__ | prpplague: yup |
| 23:22.36 | davidc__ | you've got one of those s3boards to try it with? |
| 23:22.42 | davidc__ | btw, 2.5V Ptp works fine as well |
| 23:22.51 | prpplague | sorry no, all i have is arm stuff |
| 23:23.08 | prpplague | davidc__: you have a good url for the picoblaze lounge? |
| 23:23.18 | flyback | what's her age prpplague |
| 23:23.31 | davidc__ | prpplague: not really.. its a nightmare to get those files IIRC |
| 23:23.31 | prpplague | flyback: 9 |
| 23:23.44 | flyback | hmm |
| 23:23.46 | prpplague | davidc__: yea thats why i was asking, i could not find them easy |
| 23:24.01 | flyback | prpplague I am sure you already did and noticed but still |
| 23:24.21 | davidc__ | prpplague: I'm gonna get a fully opensource version out tonight |
| 23:24.21 | flyback | if yuo have any spare juiceboxes or something else with portable music capability you can give her, doit |
| 23:24.22 | davidc__ | prpplague: I just need to write some uarts + integrate the open source picoblaze |
| 23:24.25 | prpplague | davidc__: ahh ok |
| 23:24.38 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (i=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-60.intrastar.net) |
| 23:24.56 | flyback | it really helps in a social sitation, etc like siting in waiting room etc, it's just a focal point to grasp on and tune out the other senses overloading you |
| 23:25.02 | flyback | I suck at wording this :/ |
| 23:25.28 | flyback | you know linus and his security blanket |
| 23:25.31 | flyback | it's kinda like that |
| 23:25.37 | flyback | although not as dramatic |
| 23:28.55 | prpplague | davidc__: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/SparkfunCameraFPGA |
| 23:29.54 | prpplague | davidc__: let me know if there are any changes that need to be done on the page |
| 23:30.40 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: any favorite ways to flash a PLCC rom you care to share with the OLPC readership? |
| 23:31.00 | flyback | CosmicPenguin |
| 23:31.02 | flyback | old nic |
| 23:31.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: like removing it from the socket? or in system? |
| 23:31.22 | CosmicPenguin | no - removing it from the socket |
| 23:31.26 | flyback | if you mean a socketed one you are removing it from the system |
| 23:31.42 | flyback | network card bootrom interface can flash some flash chips |
| 23:31.45 | flyback | depending on voltage, size etc |
| 23:31.57 | flyback | people using this as a poor man;s programmer for a while |
| 23:32.28 | flyback | realtek 8139 and intel etherexpress are two choices |
| 23:32.36 | CosmicPenguin | Lets assume these people can afford a real burner |
| 23:32.39 | flyback | although I think the realtek only go up to 512kb flash |
| 23:32.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'd need to see the datasheet on the plcc rom, but you could do it easy with either a ftdi ft-2232 or ez-usb |
| 23:32.53 | flyback | real burner is always better : |
| 23:32.56 | flyback | :) |
| 23:32.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: usb about $30.00 |
| 23:33.09 | CosmicPenguin | ez-usb? For out of socket? |
| 23:33.16 | CosmicPenguin | are we talking about the same thing here? |
| 23:33.23 | prpplague | yea, |
| 23:33.36 | CosmicPenguin | howsabout a url? |
| 23:34.00 | prpplague | remove the plcc from the socket on the plcc plug it into a socket connected to the ez-usb or ft-2232 and program |
| 23:34.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: one sec |
| 23:34.08 | CosmicPenguin | oh, ok |
| 23:34.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not what you had in mind? |
| 23:35.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/EzUsb |
| 23:41.23 | *** join/#edev purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:41.23 | *** topic/#edev is #edev discussion for small embedded device development and hacking || http://www.elinux.org/wiki/ || http://www.hackaday.com || http://www.linux-hacker.net || buildroot now has a mailing list, please subscribe at http://buildroot.busybox.net |
| 23:41.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i can understand that, but you have my curiousity up |
| 23:42.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: can you tell me the chip number for me to lookup? |
| 23:42.24 | CosmicPenguin | also, this is a stop gap until we can reliably flash the serial flash |
| 23:42.54 | CosmicPenguin | http://tinyurl.com/nxfvg |
| 23:43.04 | CosmicPenguin | Thats what I'm using, but its just a representative sample |
| 23:46.23 | CosmicPenguin | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/LinuxBIOSHowto |
| 23:46.28 | CosmicPenguin | Thats what I'm writing aobut |
| 23:46.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you want to serial program or parallel |
| 23:48.53 | CosmicPenguin | fun, huh? |
| 23:49.27 | prpplague | yea, that chip supports two different flash schemes |
| 23:49.37 | prpplague | you can flash it either serially or parallel |
| 23:49.51 | prpplague | normally it runs serially, but has a factory mode to flash in parallel |
| 23:50.10 | CosmicPenguin | I dunno - pesonally, I use another Geode board to flash mine |
| 23:50.14 | CosmicPenguin | with our DOS based flashrom |
| 23:50.26 | prpplague | interesting |
| 23:50.37 | CosmicPenguin | Eventually we'll get JTAG working for the serial flash |
| 23:50.41 | CosmicPenguin | but thats a dangerous procedure |
| 23:50.50 | prpplague | i'll see if i can scrounge up a couple of chips to test with |
| 23:51.13 | CosmicPenguin | But I really need to get more people doing this |
| 23:51.21 | CosmicPenguin | its annoying to only have one or two contributors |
| 23:53.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: contributors for what? |
| 23:53.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: OLPC in general? or the hardware side of it? |
| 23:54.05 | CosmicPenguin | LinuxBIOS users atually |
| 23:54.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: looks like you could program this with an easy to make parport dongle |
| 23:54.45 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, but again, its not that sort of project |
| 23:55.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, i know, just saying an easy to make schematic would help |
| 23:57.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea you could do this with a small parport dongle, about $10 in parts and maybe 20 minutes of connections |
| 23:58.23 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:58.42 | prpplague | i'll drop by our local computer shop and see if can get some bad motherboards |
| 23:58.46 | CosmicPenguin | Now that I think about it - yeah, if you do it, we'll post the schematics |
| 23:58.55 | CosmicPenguin | PLCC will be a fine way to recover bricked machines |
| 23:59.53 | chouimat|shower | CosmicPenguin: http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=191201628 |
| 23:59.58 | chouimat|shower | info on this |
