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| 02:28.13 | cougarvt | if you needed to use a null modem to connect some system to a PC but you used a straight thru cable would you get *no* output or jibberish in minicom/cu/...? |
| 02:29.01 | cougarvt | i would expect jibberish to be due to a speed mismatch in the systems but i know that is not the case |
| 02:35.39 | flyback | no output |
| 02:36.41 | cougarvt | how about if one system expected hardware flow control but the lines were floating and minicom configured not to use it? |
| 02:36.53 | cougarvt | i'm getting jibberish and trying to find out why |
| 02:37.18 | flyback | dunno |
| 02:37.21 | flyback | but yuo can't use a nromal cable |
| 02:37.30 | flyback | because sends will go to sends |
| 02:37.32 | flyback | etc |
| 02:37.48 | cougarvt | it's an ipaq and i'm trying to just mod the USB cradle rather than buy a serial cable for it |
| 02:38.07 | cougarvt | oh oh. misread - yeah |
| 02:38.29 | cougarvt | that's why i thik i need to swap Rx and Tx |
| 02:39.03 | cougarvt | let it at work though - at least i have a reason to look forward to tomorrow |
| 02:39.35 | cougarvt | s/let/left/ |
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| 03:27.53 | flyback | you guys ever had issues with white residue on boards? |
| 03:52.30 | jbevren | cougarvt: make sure the data rate is correct. |
| 03:52.57 | jbevren | flyback: I ran a scan with remap on the drive, it still doesnt work :P |
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| 03:53.08 | jbevren | not the 160 though, another one that died |
| 04:05.29 | prpplague | davidc__: which breakout boards were you refering to on the sfe forum? |
| 04:05.58 | davidc__ | prpplague: there are two that digilent carries? |
| 04:06.09 | davidc__ | theres one for breaking out the s3e board connector |
| 04:06.16 | davidc__ | and one for breaking out the s3board connector |
| 04:06.56 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 04:10.27 | prpplague | http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=USB2&Nav1=Products&Nav2=Accessory |
| 04:10.39 | prpplague | man i wish they had something like that for the sl811HS |
| 04:10.44 | jbevren | ahh the s3board |
| 04:10.46 | jbevren | how do I hate thee |
| 04:11.05 | jbevren | actually its the software I dislike heh |
| 04:11.42 | prpplague | davidc__: they have some nice modules |
| 04:12.19 | davidc__ | jbevren: ah, webpack ain't your friend? |
| 04:13.08 | prpplague | wow they have some really great modules |
| 04:13.35 | jbevren | davidc__: not in VHDL for sure |
| 04:13.45 | jbevren | I have better luck in verilog, and even that's mixed, |
| 04:13.55 | jbevren | but more because I dont know the board than because I dont know the software |
| 04:14.13 | jbevren | prpplague: Pretty cool little board isnt it? |
| 04:14.34 | jbevren | it's a gadget controller or ? |
| 04:14.56 | jbevren | davidc__: I got the combo pack that has the spartan3 and xc95 boards together |
| 04:15.17 | jbevren | havent done much other than educational button/led toys |
| 04:17.35 | prpplague | jbevren: yea gadget |
| 04:17.38 | prpplague | usb slave |
| 04:17.39 | flyback | jbe |
| 04:17.45 | flyback | always do a wipe then |
| 04:17.48 | flyback | 0 wipe |
| 04:17.50 | flyback | then try it again |
| 04:17.55 | jbevren | hehe |
| 04:18.01 | flyback | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkIfUdZaEvw&search=transformers |
| 04:18.02 | jbevren | flyback: it's the system drive, so it's less important |
| 04:18.04 | flyback | this will make you feel better |
| 04:18.19 | jbevren | I'm rsync'ing the user drive atm via a nfs chroot ;-) |
| 04:18.37 | prpplague | flyback: please stop posting urls |
| 04:19.02 | flyback | oh come on I been holding off, this channel could use a little humor |
| 04:19.03 | flyback | sheesh |
| 04:19.26 | prpplague | davidc__: those modules, the datasheets don't list the Vcc used on any of them |
| 04:20.31 | jbevren | arent all diligent boards 3.3v? |
| 04:21.18 | prpplague | i don't know |
| 04:22.15 | jbevren | (that was more for dc than prp) |
| 04:22.26 | prpplague | http://www.digilentinc.com/Data/Products/PMOD-SPKR1/pmod-spkr1-rm.pdf |
| 04:22.31 | prpplague | i want some of those |
| 04:22.31 | jbevren | my spartan3 is, and I believe thats made for the spartan3 |
| 04:22.42 | jbevren | http://www.digilentinc.com/Data/Products/PMOD-RS232/pmod-rs232-rm.pdf <- for the lazy |
| 04:22.59 | prpplague | yea saw taht too |
| 04:22.59 | flyback | jbe |
| 04:23.03 | prpplague | probably order some |
| 04:23.04 | flyback | when did you get that spartan |
| 04:23.10 | jbevren | last fall |
| 04:23.14 | jbevren | see ya prp |
| 04:23.22 | flyback | ok you should be out of the recall then |
| 04:23.23 | flyback | afaik |
| 04:23.38 | jbevren | flyback: I was going to get one of the 3e boards a year ago last july |
| 04:23.42 | jbevren | but they were delayed |
| 04:23.46 | jbevren | from feb to july |
| 04:23.47 | jbevren | to sept |
| 04:23.48 | jbevren | to oct |
| 04:23.49 | jbevren | to dec |
| 04:23.52 | jbevren | to jan |
| 04:23.58 | jbevren | and finally released feb or so this year |
| 04:24.07 | jbevren | the 3e has 500kgates |
| 04:24.15 | jbevren | mine has 300k iirc heh |
| 04:24.24 | jbevren | more ocean to play in |
| 04:24.28 | jbevren | anyway, prp has the right idea |
| 04:24.32 | jbevren | flyback: here's one to fathom |
| 04:24.39 | jbevren | the c-1 commodore project board |
| 04:24.49 | flyback | you mean the fpga c64 thing |
| 04:24.50 | jbevren | it uses a 150kgate and a 50kgate |
| 04:24.51 | jbevren | yeah |
| 04:24.56 | jbevren | so in all it has ~200kgates |
| 04:25.05 | jbevren | a full c64 fits in there with room for fancies |
| 04:25.23 | jbevren | also, there was a vic-20 implementation for the spartan 3 board (mine) |
| 04:25.33 | jbevren | the whole machine minus analogue video processing |
| 04:25.39 | jbevren | including the srams cpu and roms :) |
| 04:25.58 | jbevren | I'm off to bed while the rsync completes |
| 04:26.00 | jbevren | see ya |
| 04:26.15 | flyback | i'mm in hell :P |
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| 13:28.24 | prpplague | jbevren: busy this morning eh? i see you've already editied the wiki pages this morning |
| 13:29.46 | jbevren | I have? |
| 13:30.23 | jbevren | it's august, Dave :) |
| 13:30.44 | prpplague | doh, didn't read the date properly |
| 13:30.45 | jbevren | that was on jul 31 |
| 13:30.47 | jbevren | lol :) |
| 13:31.03 | prpplague | yea |
| 13:31.29 | jbevren | ditto |
| 13:31.36 | prpplague | paid all my bills this morning, very depressing |
| 13:32.23 | *** join/#edev davidc__ (n=davidc__@S01060002b360aacd.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 13:34.13 | prpplague | davidc__: morning crack baby |
| 13:34.42 | prpplague | davidc__: you seen these - http://minila.sourceforge.net/ |
| 13:36.02 | jbevren | only 3.3 and 5v? |
| 13:36.05 | jbevren | what about ecl et.al? |
| 13:36.06 | jbevren | hehe |
| 13:37.43 | prpplague | can't have everything |
| 13:39.19 | jbevren | nod |
| 13:39.25 | jbevren | my HP analyzer doesnt do 3.3v |
| 13:39.30 | jbevren | of course, I havent tried, it might |
| 13:40.00 | jbevren | hm |
| 13:40.07 | jbevren | some reprogramming and it'd work via rs232 mwahaha |
| 13:40.08 | prpplague | jbevren: yea, the minila is pretty cheap and has linux support |
| 13:40.46 | jbevren | oh, the usb dongle is rs232 |
| 13:40.48 | jbevren | hm |
| 13:41.04 | jbevren | nope, misread ignore me |
| 13:50.08 | jbevren | so where do I buy a board? heh |
| 13:50.23 | jbevren | that'd be a good way to raise funds for the project heh |
| 13:53.09 | prpplague | jbevren: #minila |
| 13:53.18 | jbevren | nod |
| 13:53.20 | jbevren | 1sec |
| 13:53.21 | prpplague | jbevren: g1powermac might have a couple left from his production run |
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| 14:09.34 | flyBED | holy mother of canuck |
| 14:09.39 | flyBED | wonder how much that cost |
| 14:09.52 | prpplague | flyBED: how much what costs? |
| 14:09.59 | jbevren | the sf.net link? |
| 14:10.04 | jbevren | apparently less than $100 |
| 14:10.07 | flyBED | yes! |
| 14:10.11 | prpplague | flyBED: and i asked you not to use that word here |
| 14:10.16 | flyBED | oh yeah forgot sorry |
| 14:10.20 | flyBED | use it everywhere else :P |
| 14:10.31 | jbevren | stop using it everywhere else and it wont be a problem here ;-) |
| 14:10.36 | flyBED | never |
| 14:10.39 | jbevren | lol |
| 14:10.48 | jbevren | prpplague: what dya think of my 1602 (link in #minila) |
| 14:10.51 | flyBED | me and my canadian friends spar back and forth |
| 14:10.59 | jbevren | g2: btw, keep me posted on the bids |
| 14:11.41 | davidc__ | prpplague: go rape yourself with a fork |
| 14:12.06 | flyBED | wtf? |
| 14:12.08 | davidc__ | prpplague: hmm, not bad |
| 14:12.19 | davidc__ | flyback: from earlier ;) |
| 14:12.26 | davidc__ | er. flyBED |
| 14:12.33 | flyBED | I was about to packet your ass |
| 14:12.34 | flyBED | :P |
| 14:12.54 | flyBED | what's the slew rate? |
| 14:12.58 | flyBED | is that the correct term |
| 14:13.10 | flyBED | err how fast this device can handle or down to what timing |
| 14:13.13 | davidc__ | flyBED: whee, its 5CR!PT K1DDY |
| 14:13.22 | flyBED | davidc__ no not really |
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| 14:13.32 | flyBED | I just defend against trolls |
| 14:13.47 | flyBED | glad you were joking :) |
| 14:13.57 | davidc__ | flyBED: he greets me with "morning crack baby" |
| 14:14.09 | davidc__ | flyBED: I reply "go rape yourself with a spork/fork/spoon" |
| 14:14.23 | flyBED | ah ok :) |
| 14:14.23 | jbevren | flyBED: ignore conversations between those two hehe |
| 14:14.27 | davidc__ | prpplague: neat LA |
| 14:14.28 | flyBED | na np |
| 14:14.45 | jbevren | flyBED: capture rate etc are limited by cabling |
| 14:14.50 | jbevren | the CPLD they use is -fast-. |
| 14:14.53 | flyBED | cool |
| 14:15.00 | flyBED | oh that's right |
| 14:15.04 | flyBED | the device handles the speed |
| 14:15.07 | flyBED | not the pc attached to it |
| 14:15.13 | flyBED | it's bfufered right |
| 14:15.14 | jbevren | right, the cpld clocks data from the probes to the sram |
| 14:15.15 | flyBED | ? |
| 14:15.18 | flyBED | ah ok |
| 14:15.37 | jbevren | so perhaps the sram is the limiting entity |
| 14:15.41 | jbevren | that or the cable ;-) |
| 14:15.49 | davidc__ | flyBED: besides, packeting of me invites massive retaliation ;) |
| 14:16.07 | flyBED | yeah but I wouldn't do it myself :) |
| 14:16.14 | flyBED | don't have the skills or desire :) |
| 14:16.33 | prpplague | davidc__: yea its pretty cool, basically you can get it built for less than $100 USD |
| 14:16.59 | prpplague | davidc__: completely licensed under the GPL |
| 14:17.07 | davidc__ | prpplague: hmm... I already have an Intronix Logicport. It samples to 500mhz, but waaay smaller capture buffer |
| 14:17.11 | flyBED | prpplague till some wanker files patent lawsuits |
| 14:17.12 | flyBED | somehow |
| 14:17.34 | prpplague | davidc__: yea, the big pull here is its open and we can write our own software for it |
| 14:17.37 | jbevren | flyback: they can't, not really |
| 14:17.45 | jbevren | there are way too many ram-buffered LA's out there |
| 14:17.47 | flyBED | jbevren seems like they try anyways :/ |
| 14:17.47 | davidc__ | prpplague: I might make one of those just for the longass capture buffer |
| 14:17.55 | prpplague | davidc__: hehe |
| 14:18.08 | prpplague | davidc__: [g2] is talking about getting quotes to do another production run |
| 14:18.23 | flyBED | bbl, need more sleep |
| 14:18.25 | davidc__ | hmm... how many layers is the board? |
| 14:18.33 | davidc__ | I can probably give you a ballpark estimate :P |
| 14:18.38 | flyBED | i'm thinking sparkfun |
| 14:18.41 | flyBED | they could make a killing |
| 14:18.49 | flyBED | $150 mabye? |
| 14:18.56 | flyBED | hackers like us would be like "HELL YEAH!" |
| 14:19.06 | prpplague | davidc__: yea, we just did a group buy of some, basically turned out to be around $85USD each |
| 14:19.07 | flyBED | bbl |
| 14:19.13 | davidc__ | that much?! |
| 14:19.24 | flyBED | I am guessing man |
| 14:19.26 | flyBED | calm down :P |
| 14:19.35 | prpplague | davidc__: yea it was a small run, iirc only about 10 or 15 boards |
| 14:19.37 | davidc__ | flyBED: I'm talking to prp again |
| 14:19.40 | davidc__ | prpplague: ahhh |
| 14:19.46 | davidc__ | board should be ~20, assy ~25/30 in QTY 100 |
| 14:19.49 | davidc__ | not counting bom |
| 14:19.53 | davidc__ | so maybe 60 |
| 14:20.00 | davidc__ | less if its just a 2 layer board |
| 14:20.02 | davidc__ | then board should be 10 |
| 14:20.14 | prpplague | yea |
| 14:20.26 | prpplague | davidc__: i think sfe or olimex would do well with it |
| 14:20.34 | prpplague | davidc__: especially since its an open design |
| 14:20.46 | prpplague | davidc__: i've got three of them on the way to me now |
| 14:20.49 | davidc__ | prpplague: heheh |
| 14:21.02 | jbevren | hm |
| 14:21.07 | jbevren | can you sync multiple units? |
| 14:21.08 | davidc__ | prpplague: I've always had designs on building some kind of really highspeed DDR2 LA |
| 14:21.11 | davidc__ | using a virtex5 |
| 14:21.11 | prpplague | davidc__: my main attaction is that i can run the software under linux |
| 14:21.20 | jbevren | well I suppose you could by just feeding the clock to all units in the group |
| 14:21.20 | davidc__ | prpplague: yup |
| 14:21.29 | davidc__ | oh, does this thing to timing? |
| 14:21.31 | davidc__ | or just state? |
| 14:21.46 | jbevren | both (afaik?) |
| 14:22.02 | jbevren | one mode loses half the data lines to write timestamps |
| 14:22.03 | davidc__ | ahh, good |
| 14:22.09 | jbevren | so I'd guess that's timing |
| 14:22.30 | flyBED | you guys scare me :) |
| 14:22.32 | flyBED | keep it up :) |
| 14:22.33 | flyBED | bbl |
| 14:22.50 | davidc__ | the way I'm thinking Intronix acheives 500mhz timing is they reconfigure their FPGA on the fly |
| 14:23.18 | davidc__ | I'm thinking a V5 + an fpga would make a nice really high speed capture device |
| 14:23.24 | davidc__ | er, V5 + an arm |
| 14:23.31 | davidc__ | more expensive than that one though ;) |
| 14:23.36 | flyBED | hehehe |
| 14:23.40 | davidc__ | Sticking a gig of ddr of the |
| 14:23.51 | davidc__ | er, gig of ddr2 of the side would give the necessary bandwidth |
| 14:24.26 | jbevren | that'd be pretty cool |
| 14:24.33 | jbevren | reconfig the fpga to suit different modes |
| 14:24.42 | jbevren | you'd need a more complex firmware of course |
| 14:24.54 | jbevren | use a pixter-mm mwahahah |
| 14:25.01 | jbevren | (usb slave port et.al) |
| 14:25.23 | davidc__ | jbevren: heh - I'm pretty sure thats what intronix does, because if you switch between certain modes, theres a "configuring HW" delay |
| 14:25.33 | davidc__ | which is about the time it takes to load my spartan3 over jtag |
| 14:25.34 | jbevren | davidc__: makes sense then |
| 14:25.58 | davidc__ | but if you just change triggering / sampling speeds [with the exception of the limited 500mhz mode] - no delay |
| 14:31.42 | davidc__ | hmm.. maybe when I'm working at my next job I'll see if they want to want to sponsor dev of such a thing |
| 14:32.23 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 14:33.00 | jbevren | hehe |
| 14:33.18 | jbevren | davidc__: question about DDR.. once you put it into burst mode, you can write a full gig yeah? |
| 14:33.24 | davidc__ | jbevren: dunno :/ |
| 14:33.36 | davidc__ | jbevren: but I was gonna have the DDR bandwidth higher than max sample rate |
| 14:33.37 | jbevren | I was wondering if there were delays for row changes |
| 14:33.41 | davidc__ | well, max sample bandwidth |
| 14:33.42 | jbevren | nod |
| 14:37.01 | [g2] | davidc__ I'd be really interested in your thoughts on costs |
| 14:37.02 | davidc__ | jbevren: there are, but nothing that a fifo can't handle |
| 14:37.37 | davidc__ | [g2]: sure, got your current costs |
| 14:37.39 | davidc__ | ? |
| 14:37.44 | [g2] | re: high speed stuff, we should have a little group that builds products and makes money to free ppl from their day jobs |
| 14:37.49 | davidc__ | I can tell you what you're overpaying on ;) |
| 14:38.04 | davidc__ | [g2]: hehe, if my next job offer goes through that is gonna be my day job :P |
| 14:38.20 | [g2] | davidc__ Hope it's a good one :) |
| 14:38.50 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:39.07 | davidc__ | yeah, for sure :P |
| 14:39.35 | prpplague | http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=USB2&Nav1=Products&Nav2=Accessory |
| 14:39.51 | prpplague | davidc__: i want something similiar but using the SL811HS |
| 14:39.59 | prpplague | davidc__: that way you could do host or slave |
| 14:46.45 | davidc__ | prpplague: IIRC they do |
| 14:46.50 | davidc__ | er, wait, not digilent |
| 14:47.37 | prpplague | davidc__: any clue who? |
| 14:47.45 | prpplague | i've googled till i'm blue in the face |
| 14:48.00 | davidc__ | prpplague: sfe sells an enc28j60 - but not one that plugs right into that board |
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| 14:49.36 | prpplague | davidc__: oh you mean the enc28j60 |
| 14:49.47 | prpplague | davidc__: yea, olimex and edtp sell some modules |
| 14:49.52 | prpplague | davidc__: i have one of each |
| 14:50.00 | davidc__ | heheh |
| 14:50.08 | prpplague | davidc__: hehe, had the sl811hs on the brain |
| 14:51.08 | prpplague | i'm really surprised that no one is making a breakout board for the Sl811HS |
| 14:51.16 | prpplague | you see slave boards all the time |
| 14:51.31 | [g2] | after prpplague mentioned it |
| 14:59.16 | prpplague | [g2]: they little board i laid out has all the i/o, plus it runs from a single 3.3v power supply using a booster chip to do the 5v for the usb port |
| 15:00.28 | [g2] | prpplague one thing I'd like to accomplish is to help parts of the community be more self-sufficient |
| 15:00.52 | [g2] | meaning, generating $'s and returning some of the to the community |
| 15:01.20 | [g2] | I think google with it's $M going to the mozilla/firefox is a good example |
| 15:01.37 | [g2] | I've read estimates of 6-10M a year |
| 15:01.59 | [g2] | you can fund some dev's and infrastructure that way |
| 15:03.03 | [g2] | if all the projects are run like HAM projects where ppl are doing them at cost it super for a side hobby |
| 15:03.29 | [g2] | but it rarely changes anyones day job |
| 15:09.01 | prpplague | wheeeeee |
| 15:09.15 | CosmicPenguin | sigh |
| 15:09.15 | prpplague | managment just committed to 3 more handhelds in the next 2 years |
| 15:09.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey bud |
| 15:09.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: down? |
| 15:09.37 | CosmicPenguin | yeah - its RIF day |
| 15:09.42 | prpplague | oh yea |
| 15:10.29 | CosmicPenguin | I'm dealing with some mild depression lately - hopefully today will be the last of that |
| 15:10.38 | prpplague | btdt |
| 15:11.16 | prpplague | (hehe still there still doing that) |
| 15:13.12 | [g2] | CP are you getting RIF'd ? |
| 15:14.03 | [g2] | s/counts/count is/ |
| 15:14.28 | CosmicPenguin | I am not being rifed |
| 15:14.47 | prpplague | [g2]: but the entire geode division got closed down a few weeks ago |
| 15:14.52 | [g2] | it's a bummer either way as I'm sure you feel let down by mgmt |
| 15:14.58 | [g2] | prpplague nod |
| 15:15.13 | CosmicPenguin | man, if I felt bad about managmenet letting me down, I would have left this industry years ago |
| 15:16.02 | [g2] | I'm quite aware of how industry works and how "Neutron Jack" reduced GE from 300K to 200K ppl |
| 15:16.21 | [g2] | "the people are gone, but the building's still standing" |
| 15:16.52 | CosmicPenguin | argh |
| 15:16.54 | CosmicPenguin | I hate SAP |
| 15:17.09 | [g2] | basically, he said the business unit was either going to be #1 or #2 in the world or sold off if it wasn't a "core" business |
| 15:18.05 | CosmicPenguin | I hate Citrix |
| 15:18.41 | [g2] | hah! j/k |
| 15:18.50 | CosmicPenguin | I like being part of a big company |
| 15:19.13 | CosmicPenguin | But I am looking forward to going back to a small company |
| 15:19.58 | CosmicPenguin | I'm too stupid to run a company |
| 15:20.21 | [g2] | few ppl are too stupid to run a company |
| 15:20.30 | [g2] | many are not motivated enough |
| 15:20.42 | CosmicPenguin | gentlemen, I give you your idiot |
| 15:21.13 | [g2] | ok, I don't belive this, but let's run with it for a minute |
| 15:21.19 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:21.37 | [g2] | assuming you are, you're at least smart enough to know to get someone else to run your company |
| 15:25.32 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.68.20.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 15:25.46 | CosmicPenguin | This is why I don't have a company |
| 15:25.57 | prpplague | T0mW: hey hey |
| 15:26.05 | T0mW | hello |
| 15:26.24 | prpplague | T0mW: what happened to all your dragonball pages? |
| 15:26.50 | T0mW | prpplague: blew them away, you cannot get the chips anymore |
| 15:27.33 | prpplague | T0mW: should leave them up, nice resource |
| 15:27.51 | prpplague | T0mW: were you mainly using the 68328 or the 68ez328 ? |
| 15:28.27 | T0mW | prpplague: I did some housecleaning there. The css+html was only viewable with Firefox, so, when I redid the site, a lot of material disappeared. |
| 15:28.42 | T0mW | 68ez328 |
| 15:29.12 | T0mW | prpplague: hey Dave, maybe someone mirrored the site someplace, heh |
| 15:29.17 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh, using gcc to do the compiles? |
| 15:29.22 | prpplague | T0mW: archive.org has it |
| 15:29.28 | T0mW | lol |
| 15:29.42 | prpplague | T0mW: you forget i'm a serious data digger |
| 15:29.47 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:30.41 | T0mW | yeah, well, someone pointed out to me that the dragonball stuff was rather dated (old), I agreed with them and took it off. :P |
| 15:31.00 | prpplague | T0mW: you ever used the SDS cc68000 compilier? |
| 15:31.07 | T0mW | naw |
| 15:31.36 | prpplague | just wondering if its pretty much compatible with m68k-gcc |
| 15:32.25 | T0mW | probably as compatible as keil vs GNU gcc |
| 15:32.41 | prpplague | hehe doesn't tell me much, hehe |
| 15:33.15 | T0mW | seems that they all have their little favorite extensions to the compiler to "make it easier for the user", such as ABSOLUTE sections, etc. |
| 15:33.42 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:34.03 | prpplague | T0mW: so its possible to compile this stuff with gcc, but might need some tweaking |
| 15:34.59 | T0mW | keil does that, they have a absolute keyword to hard locate a function / file into the final image. Rather than teach their dumb^H^H^H^H users how to setup a linker ld (script), they allow them to override. |
| 15:35.35 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:37.10 | T0mW | there are a couple of other minor things I've seen referenced by the keil users on hte lpc2000 forum, but, I get the sense that you could rewrite for gcc, if you correct for the keil "extension" (aka anomolies). |
| 15:37.19 | chouimat | morning |
| 15:37.26 | prpplague | chouimat: hey |
| 15:37.52 | T0mW | chouimat: freshly ground too |
| 15:37.56 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, well this code was writen by someone who codes pretty well, i would suspect he didn't stray to far from accepted practices |
| 15:38.25 | T0mW | prpplague: I don't mind tail-ending a good coder, as long as they document well |
| 15:39.06 | T0mW | prpplague: its' the beginner that can't document their code that drives me nuts, heh |
| 15:39.42 | T0mW | I'm considering spending $300+ on a new soldering station |
| 15:40.30 | T0mW | this old weller TC201 is burning up tips on me, the new tips I got are now all oxidized, some kind of purple haze on them. |
| 15:40.44 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:40.51 | T0mW | prpplague: I BROKE my 12 watt WM120 |
| 15:40.59 | T0mW | <sob> |
| 15:41.37 | prpplague | T0mW: purple plague, you did something that got you some aluminum and gold together |
| 15:41.57 | T0mW | heh |
| 15:42.06 | prpplague | T0mW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_plague_(intermetallic) |
| 15:42.14 | T0mW | Well, I was looking at the MetCal irons |
| 15:43.06 | T0mW | prpplague: I should know today about that long term contract.. |
| 15:44.15 | prpplague | T0mW: cool |
| 15:44.31 | prpplague | T0mW: trying get an old legacy device based on the M68328 to run in an emulator |
| 15:44.34 | T0mW | prpplague: I'd really like to play^H^H^H^Hwork with that Samsung little chips unit, the one with the touch lcd |
| 15:45.00 | T0mW | prpplague: WHY?! |
| 15:45.17 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 15:45.31 | prpplague | T0mW: because like you said, you can't get the chips anymore |
| 15:45.33 | T0mW | prpplague: is it a really cool video game or something?\ |
| 15:45.49 | prpplague | T0mW: better, a legacy barcode data collector, hehe |
| 15:46.17 | T0mW | prpplague: ah hah, another example from the pile, eh? |
| 15:46.31 | T0mW | "ancient relic" |
| 15:46.50 | T0mW | "ancient relic" == anything over 5 years old |
| 15:47.09 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, we just stopped selling it two weeks ago |
| 15:47.42 | prpplague | T0mW: the only stock we have left is a few pieces for repair and such |
| 15:48.35 | prpplague | T0mW: its pretty cool though, i have alot of it running in the xcopilot emulator that was originally done for the palm iii |
| 15:49.33 | T0mW | prpplague: problem with the 68K code was that it couldn't do relative jumps and calls, everything was hard-coded addresses. |
| 15:49.45 | T0mW | prpplague: iirc, the gcc we used was PIC |
| 15:49.55 | T0mW | er |
| 15:50.01 | T0mW | created PIC code |
| 15:50.52 | prpplague | interesting |
| 15:51.06 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: ping |
| 15:51.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: pong |
| 15:51.40 | prpplague | T0mW: http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/sc/30373421-2-200-0.gif |
| 15:52.30 | T0mW | prpplague: heh, pretty on the outside, ugly on the inside, eh? |
| 15:53.20 | prpplague | T0mW: pretty sweet little desing |
| 15:53.28 | prpplague | T0mW: design |
| 15:53.29 | T0mW | I shouldn't talk, I recall having urged a customer to abandon a Z280 system he had in development and replace it with a 68K based system |
| 15:53.48 | T0mW | that was before I started work with ARM processors |
| 15:53.52 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:54.07 | T0mW | btw, that customer is almost out of business |
| 15:54.31 | T0mW | moral? Don't base your top money maker system on a Zilog chip |
| 15:54.47 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:55.18 | prpplague | well if i can get this emulator working, we'll be able to get a bunch of legacy business |
| 15:55.21 | T0mW | ah, I wonder what to work on today? |
| 15:55.45 | T0mW | one more zipit to mod... |
| 15:55.52 | prpplague | T0mW: hmm, how about layout a nice little eval board for the sl811hs |
| 15:56.25 | T0mW | what is a "sl811hs" ? |
| 15:56.44 | prpplague | a usb Host and slave controller, 8-bit interface |
| 15:59.09 | prpplague | you could hook one of those to a juicebox |
| 16:00.04 | T0mW | :P |
| 16:00.06 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp232.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 16:00.28 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, you could add usb host to a number of small devices pretty easy |
| 16:00.51 | T0mW | yeah, like I'm all eager to get involved with USB, huh? |
| 16:00.52 | prpplague | T0mW: main uses would be for usb thumb drive or 802.11b/g dongle |
| 16:00.56 | prpplague | T0mW: or bluetooth |
| 16:00.57 | T0mW | heh |
| 16:02.09 | T0mW | bah, USB is so borked that it won't die, it'll be around for years and years... |
| 16:06.47 | prpplague | the problem i see with USB is it is all 5v based, usb.org didn't learn from pcmcia and cf designs |
| 16:07.32 | prpplague | T0mW: like my 802.11b/g dongle the main chip zd1211 is 3.3v based, it just takes the 5v from the usb and regulates it to 3.3v |
| 16:07.36 | prpplague | T0mW: a real waste |
| 16:08.47 | prpplague | T0mW: i actually considered hacking the board to remove the regulator |
| 16:08.58 | T0mW | heh |
| 16:10.19 | prpplague | hmm |
| 16:10.23 | prpplague | that makes me think |
| 16:10.29 | prpplague | i guess i could do that for the pixter |
| 16:10.56 | T0mW | lol |
| 16:11.03 | T0mW | todays Dilbert |
| 16:11.30 | T0mW | prpplague: you see it yet? |
| 16:12.05 | prpplague | naw, i don't read dilbert much |
| 16:12.11 | T0mW | http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/ |
| 16:12.17 | T0mW | check this one out then |
| 16:12.50 | chouimat | T0mW: read yesterday one? |
| 16:13.06 | T0mW | chouimat: no, they were offline |
| 16:13.44 | chouimat | www.dilbert.com :) |
| 16:14.31 | prpplague | whats a "limping scrod" ? |
| 16:14.31 | chouimat | or was it monday |
| 16:19.00 | T0mW | prpplague: how many times have you written / designed the "end all be all" only to have someone else torpedo it? |
| 16:20.53 | prpplague | T0mW: you mean design something you think is great and someone tell you it isn't? |
| 16:21.09 | T0mW | yeah |
| 16:22.57 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:23.09 | prpplague | yea, well i don't much by other peoples remarks |
| 16:23.12 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:23.47 | prpplague | is that a yankee term? |
| 16:27.35 | jbevren | haha |
| 16:27.47 | jbevren | no, it's the metz's lead baserunner |
| 16:28.01 | jbevren | doh! |
| 16:28.09 | CosmicPenguin | metz? |
| 16:28.30 | jbevren | new york metz |
| 16:28.35 | jbevren | baseball team.. |
| 16:32.43 | CosmicPenguin | That would be the mets |
| 16:32.49 | CosmicPenguin | seriously |
| 16:33.00 | CosmicPenguin | thats one of the saddest things I have ever seen |
| 16:33.08 | prpplague | as: unrecognized option `--bitwise-or' |
| 16:33.13 | prpplague | thats odd |
| 16:47.05 | jbevren | mets, metz |
| 16:47.11 | jbevren | tomayto tomahto |
| 16:47.29 | cougarvt | prpplague: for iPAQs Tx, Rx, and Gnd is enough. my problem was the rs232 level shifter is builtin - i was running the signals thru a max232... |
| 16:51.21 | prpplague | cougarvt: ahh |
| 16:51.39 | gandhijee | prpplauge: what buildroot do you use? |
| 16:52.41 | prpplague | current svn, but i normally use a stable release of uclibc |
| 16:53.11 | gandhijee | i get this error now about makedevs |
| 16:53.22 | gandhijee | its that supposta be mknod?? |
| 16:54.00 | prpplague | gandhijee: no, makedevs generates the nodes, its kinda like a multi-mknod command |
| 16:54.11 | gandhijee | well i don't even have that |
| 16:54.33 | prpplague | gandhijee: ?? |
| 16:55.13 | gandhijee | makedevs |
| 16:55.32 | prpplague | gandhijee: you are using buildroot right? |
| 16:55.59 | gandhijee | yea, buildroot snapshot |
| 16:56.17 | gandhijee | and i am told it to not use uclibc snapshots |
| 16:56.25 | gandhijee | so i guess its using .9.28 |
| 16:56.26 | prpplague | i think you are trying to make it more complicated than it is |
| 16:56.43 | prpplague | gandhijee: email me your .config file dave123_aml@yahoo.com |
| 16:56.45 | gandhijee | it is possble |
| 16:57.02 | gandhijee | i emailed you my arm one too, apparently that worked for you as well |
| 16:57.33 | gandhijee | but it didnt work for me |
| 16:57.39 | prpplague | gandhijee: what distro are you using? |
| 16:57.42 | gandhijee | gentoo |
| 16:58.02 | gandhijee | i managed to build up a gcc based xcompiler for arm with it |
| 16:58.06 | gandhijee | w/o problems |
| 16:59.38 | prpplague | i'm surprised you are having so many problems, buildroot is generally very easy to use |
| 16:59.58 | gandhijee | i dunno, i must be retarded or something |
| 17:00.54 | T0mW | lol |
| 17:01.04 | gandhijee | oh shit, i think i finally got it |
| 17:01.28 | gandhijee | where does the toolchain sit after its made? |
| 17:02.19 | prpplague | gandhijee: build_xxx/staging_dir/bin |
| 17:03.07 | gandhijee | nice, your gonna love this one |
| 17:03.27 | gandhijee | mine deleted that directory ! |
| 17:04.21 | gandhijee | hm |
| 17:04.38 | gandhijee | actually it put it somewhere else, something on my end is jacked |
| 17:10.18 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a goodly amount of crap |
| 17:10.26 | CosmicPenguin | lemme guess - KDE? |
| 17:10.49 | chouimat | no ... another developer stuff ... |
| 17:11.05 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: at least KDE diff are broken out :D |
| 17:15.05 | chouimat | ok he puts the source code of everything in the diff .... |
| 17:15.42 | prpplague | doh |
| 17:18.13 | chouimat | prpplague: since my friend is in hospital I have to take over the management of his intern ... and doing so remotely is fun :) |
| 17:18.13 | prpplague | fun fun |
| 17:18.31 | prpplague | gandhijee: hehe, don't feel bad, i've been trying to get a m68k build going for awhile |
| 17:18.45 | prpplague | gandhijee: the m68k builds have been neglected for some time |
| 17:25.31 | gandhijee | i seem to break everything i though |
| 17:25.33 | gandhijee | *touch |
| 17:26.58 | CosmicPenguin | sad to see coworkers leaving |
| 17:27.02 | CosmicPenguin | AMD sucks |
| 17:27.13 | gandhijee | why do you say that? |
| 17:28.53 | jbevren | <- using an opteron |
| 17:28.55 | jbevren | hehe |
| 17:29.05 | jbevren | yum 4gig ddr |
| 17:29.13 | prpplague | gandhijee: they are closing down the division of amd that CosmicPenguin works for |
| 17:29.32 | jbevren | ok then they suck |
| 17:31.54 | flyBED | I told you people |
| 17:32.02 | flyBED | I told you people for yrs and I was dead on right |
| 17:32.10 | jbevren | shut it, ass :) |
| 17:32.32 | flyBED | I said the USPS was stupid for saying that email would bring their demise and that e-comm would be a windfall |
| 17:32.38 | flyBED | and what do we see in the news today |
| 17:35.47 | CosmicPenguin | Whatever, nostradamus |
| 17:36.31 | flyBED | :P |
| 17:43.41 | *** join/#edev J4k3 (i=jsuter@dhcp-12-197-128-51.intrastar.net) |
| 18:09.01 | prpplague | hmm |
| 18:09.03 | prpplague | T0mW: ping |
| 18:15.14 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah |
| 18:17.57 | prpplague | T0mW: --bitwise-or option |
| 18:18.04 | prpplague | T0mW: whats the scoop? |
| 18:19.34 | T0mW | dunno, I know I've see that before, where do you see this error? compiling kernel? |
| 18:20.16 | prpplague | T0mW: http://www.uclinux.org/pub/uCsimm/archive/0492.html |
| 18:20.20 | prpplague | T0mW: thats not you? |
| 18:29.03 | T0mW | prpplague: you are asking me to recall what I did 6 years ago. lol |
| 18:29.23 | T0mW | -Wa "pass to assembler" |
| 18:29.45 | T0mW | so, -Wa,--bitwise-or would be asm option |
| 18:30.21 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, but whats the deal with the --bitwise-or option, its no longer supported, i got the gest from the post, but i was curious as to if there were any other issues with it |
| 18:30.51 | T0mW | not supported: info gas , then search for 'bitwise-or' |
| 18:30.55 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe i know about the assembler option, hehe |
| 18:31.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:31.37 | T0mW | "The Motorola 680x0 version of `as' has a few machine dependent options:" |
| 18:32.25 | prpplague | yea i read that, but the issue is the current version of as no longer supports the --bitwise-or |
| 18:34.27 | T0mW | prpplague: then you are going to have to change the code |
| 18:34.45 | T0mW | prpplague: or, drop back to gcc-2.95.3 |
| 18:36.40 | *** join/#edev FireEgl (i=Atlantic@2001:5c0:84dc:0:0:0:0:0) |
| 18:38.18 | T0mW | prpplague: http://www.uclinux.org/pub/uClinux/m68k-elf-tools/ |
| 18:43.21 | prpplague | T0mW: ?? |
| 18:44.42 | flyback | neither one of you know how to bootstrap a m68k by chance do you? |
| 18:44.52 | flyback | feeding it the s-record and whatever the hell else it needs |
| 18:45.56 | prpplague | flyback: depends on what its booting from |
| 18:46.04 | flyback | palm |
| 18:46.08 | flyback | dragonball |
| 18:46.12 | flyback | serial port via a terminal program |
| 18:46.18 | flyback | I guess you can use xmodem |
| 18:46.26 | prpplague | flyback: then its just a standard code in flash |
| 18:46.49 | flyback | eh/ |
| 18:46.59 | flyback | the flash is destroyed, hence why I need to serial bootstrap it :P |
| 18:47.56 | prpplague | flyback: thats not what you asked |
| 18:48.10 | flyback | I ask if you knew how to bootstrap it |
| 18:48.28 | prpplague | yea, you didn;t ask "serial bootstrap" |
| 18:48.53 | flyback | well isn't it basically the same code wise |
| 18:48.57 | prpplague | no |
| 18:49.00 | flyback | ok |
| 18:49.07 | flyback | nm then :/ |
| 18:49.27 | prpplague | flyback: there is a program called getrom for the palm should be able to hack that to send the rom |
| 18:49.40 | flyback | no that requires running that on the palm afaik |
| 18:49.53 | flyback | the cpu can't even start because flash sector 0 the cpu flags sector is GONE |
| 18:50.40 | T0mW | flyback: there is a debugger mode built into the 68ez328 |
| 18:50.45 | flyback | only thing you can do is short emubrk and put it in serial bootstrap mode |
| 18:50.48 | T0mW | bdm |
| 18:50.55 | flyback | yeah that's what I put it in afaik |
| 18:51.02 | flyback | problem is I don't know where to go from there |
| 18:51.21 | T0mW | then you can upload download stuff, but, you have to get the DRAM conditioned first |
| 18:51.23 | flyback | actually I don't even need uclinux, if I could just boot a damn palm os image from ram once, I could repair the flash |
| 18:51.28 | prpplague | isn't the flash and ram on a module? |
| 18:51.29 | flyback | yeah hence my problem |
| 18:51.33 | flyback | no |
| 18:51.37 | flyback | soldered to the board |
| 18:51.55 | T0mW | flyback: let me look around bbl |
| 18:52.02 | flyback | take your time |
| 18:52.08 | flyback | going to be weeks before I can set it up anyways |
| 18:52.17 | flyback | I was just curious as I go thru my inventory what might be fixable |
| 19:08.43 | prpplague | flyback: that a palm iii or one of the iiic series |
| 19:09.48 | T0mW | flyback: http://www.openhardware.net/Documents_Lib/ |
| 19:10.03 | T0mW | flyback: you have to use kermit to use the BDM mode |
| 19:10.12 | jbevren | I think flyback's is a IIIxe like mine |
| 19:10.27 | T0mW | jbevren: bricked? |
| 19:10.28 | T0mW | heh |
| 19:10.35 | prpplague | if so, its a EZ |
| 19:10.50 | jbevren | T0mW: my understanding, his is |
| 19:10.55 | jbevren | but the ez has a serial bootstrapper |
| 19:11.21 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:11.28 | prpplague | the 68328 doesn't |
| 19:11.36 | jbevren | both of mine are working (palmos 3.1something) |
| 19:12.00 | jbevren | one still has the manufacturer's plastic thing on it (for shipping protection) |
| 19:12.21 | prpplague | heavily used eh? |
| 19:12.26 | T0mW | heh |
| 19:12.44 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, real usefull device, sort of like a zipit |
| 19:12.52 | T0mW | prpplague: a solution looking for a problem |
| 19:13.20 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:13.21 | jbevren | the LA on sf.net would be pretty cool if strapped to a palm |
| 19:13.32 | prpplague | or pixter |
| 19:13.36 | jbevren | nod |
| 19:14.00 | jbevren | possibly moreso on the pixter I guess, you'd have faster access to the capture data |
| 19:14.03 | prpplague | i actually was thinking of making a simple o-scope mod for it |
| 19:14.10 | jbevren | my palm has more ram though :-P |
| 19:14.14 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:14.17 | jbevren | hehe |
| 19:14.20 | prpplague | i'm working on that |
| 19:14.23 | jbevren | yep |
| 19:14.27 | jbevren | oh, I remembered btw |
| 19:14.30 | prpplague | i can add 32mb now |
| 19:14.35 | jbevren | the drams (whereever they are) I got are 128Mbit |
| 19:14.43 | jbevren | iirc I got four ICs |
| 19:14.57 | jbevren | two for the pixter, and two for (shrug) heh |
| 19:14.57 | prpplague | yea, on one stick? |
| 19:15.01 | jbevren | nono, IC's |
| 19:15.04 | jbevren | individual chips |
| 19:15.11 | prpplague | what are the chip numbers? |
| 19:15.22 | jbevren | if I could remember, Id say |
| 19:15.26 | jbevren | and I dont even know wher ethey are :( |
| 19:15.28 | prpplague | doh |
| 19:15.30 | jbevren | <- needs to clean the shop |
| 19:15.43 | jbevren | it's not airconditioned, and is upstairs, so I dont go in there much in the summer |
| 19:16.01 | prpplague | the pixter is using 2 x16 chips to form a 32bit data bus |
| 19:16.13 | prpplague | my plan was to just use a single x16 chip |
| 19:16.26 | prpplague | we'd get 32mb ram but it would be a 16 bit bus |
| 19:16.32 | prpplague | i did some tests with the lh79520 |
| 19:16.50 | prpplague | and performance really didn't suffer at all with a x16 vs x32 |
| 19:17.02 | jbevren | ah |
| 19:17.08 | jbevren | I planned loosely to use two of the chips |
| 19:17.14 | jbevren | 128/8 is .. 8? |
| 19:17.18 | jbevren | no, 16 |
| 19:17.19 | jbevren | drr :) |
| 19:17.27 | jbevren | so that'd be 32mbyte ram with two ICs |
| 19:17.39 | prpplague | jbevren:128x8 is 128mb |
| 19:17.53 | jbevren | thats 128mB |
| 19:17.56 | jbevren | b bit B byte |
| 19:18.00 | jbevren | (for clarification) |
| 19:18.28 | prpplague | jbevren: generally you refer to the sdram in a BYTES x DATASIZE |
| 19:18.38 | jbevren | ah |
| 19:18.51 | prpplague | jbevren: if you are talking whole size of the chip you just refer to the bits |
| 19:19.15 | prpplague | jbevren: if you say, a 256megabit chip |
| 19:19.33 | jbevren | I understand words vs width |
| 19:19.38 | jbevren | so I know where youre going with this :) |
| 19:20.41 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 19:20.43 | prpplague | :D |
| 19:21.11 | prpplague | anyway i think we can use a single x16 chip |
| 19:21.17 | prpplague | make it easy to upgrde |
| 19:21.43 | prpplague | i think we can actually remove the two chips of the board and solder a single chip across both pads |
| 19:22.06 | prpplague | you'd have to remove one of the bypass caps in between them |
| 19:25.00 | jbevren | I thought the pads had the wrong pin assignments for common rams |
| 19:25.26 | chouimat | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.00 | prpplague | jbevren: they do |
| 19:28.20 | prpplague | jbevren: but by doing it over the center of the two pads we can solder to the pins we need |
| 19:28.42 | jbevren | ohhh |
| 19:28.50 | jbevren | you mean to mount it physically there, and run wires from the pads |
| 19:28.51 | jbevren | gotcha |
| 19:32.36 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:47.32 | CosmicPenguin | I am all alone in my row now |
| 19:48.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: doh |
| 19:49.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that doesn't mean you can download pr0n now |
| 19:50.01 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
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| 19:58.12 | prpplague | mbuf: greetings |
| 19:58.18 | prpplague | T0mW: http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/5301/evilua9.png |
| 19:58.34 | prpplague | T0mW: whats the double circles suppose to be in that drawing? |
| 19:58.57 | mbuf | prpplague, howdy! |
| 20:22.15 | jbevren | arent those circuit breakers? |
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| 21:38.00 | sorphin | T0mW: you around still? |
| 21:38.08 | T0mW | yeah |
| 21:38.10 | sorphin | ok |
| 21:38.13 | sorphin | puzzling question |
| 21:38.25 | T0mW | that's me, puzzled |
| 21:38.25 | sorphin | have 8 sticks of dram here, found out via Micron's website |
| 21:38.30 | sorphin | 4k refresh |
| 21:38.31 | sorphin | vs |
| 21:38.34 | sorphin | 8k refresh |
| 21:38.40 | sorphin | my 4k refresh |
| 21:38.44 | sorphin | reports 1/2 the size |
| 21:38.47 | sorphin | in this board |
| 21:39.04 | sorphin | make sense to you? cuz it sure doesn't to me |
| 21:39.38 | T0mW | yeah, depends on the board your using it in? |
| 21:39.47 | T0mW | is this PC or embedded |
| 21:39.48 | T0mW | ? |
| 21:39.58 | sorphin | Sparc, actually |
| 21:40.29 | T0mW | if the 4K is the only stick in the board, does it report it correctly? |
| 21:41.25 | sorphin | you ahve to use them in pairs, but if i use 2 of the exact same |
| 21:41.31 | sorphin | it reports 1/2 of what it should |
| 21:42.06 | prpplague | sorphin: interesting |
| 21:42.18 | sorphin | prpplague: annoying |
| 21:42.20 | prpplague | sorphin: usually thats due to one of the banks not working properly |
| 21:42.24 | sorphin | becuase i'm sitting on several dimms |
| 21:42.29 | sorphin | that do this |
| 21:42.34 | sorphin | 8 are my "new" microns |
| 21:42.37 | prpplague | sorphin: which micron chips are on the dimms? |
| 21:42.38 | T0mW | the differnce between 4K and 8K is that there is one less COL address line on the 4K device and one extra ROW line. |
| 21:42.41 | sorphin | 4 others, are 256s that do it |
| 21:42.51 | sorphin | T0mW: doh |
| 21:43.14 | T0mW | other way, COL++ ROW-- |
| 21:43.14 | sorphin | well, why don't i have this in most other systems?, self adapting? |
| 21:43.22 | T0mW | won't adapt |
| 21:43.38 | sorphin | then why can i use both some places and it doesn't matter? |
| 21:43.44 | T0mW | it may only callout to use 8K refresh devices in the board |
| 21:44.03 | T0mW | you have to reprogram the RAM controller to adapt |
| 21:44.13 | sorphin | which of course are the sun branded ones that cost more :( |
| 21:44.24 | T0mW | RAM controller adaption is a function of the BIOS, etc. |
| 21:44.26 | sorphin | so now i'm sitting on 1G of EDO ECC memory |
| 21:44.31 | sorphin | i can't use |
| 21:44.45 | sorphin | stupid Sun |
| 21:45.07 | T0mW | well, they don't want you to the cheap stuff, you have to bow down to Sun and only use their "good stuff". |
| 21:45.08 | T0mW | heh |
| 21:45.30 | sorphin | which |
| 21:45.44 | T0mW | prpplague: those circles? |
| 21:45.46 | sorphin | i've missed 2 good auctions on, cuz i didn't buy right away and someone walked all with them all |
| 21:45.57 | sorphin | $19.99 a pair and $30.00 a pair |
| 21:46.03 | sorphin | this lot was $45 for 8 |
| 21:46.13 | sorphin | little did i know of the refresh issue |
| 21:46.22 | sorphin | so i'm out $15 shipping no matter what |
| 21:46.58 | T0mW | sorphin: most times you don't think about it in the PC environ. Adapting to 4K / 8K has been there for a long time. |
| 21:47.23 | sorphin | in the controller you mean? |
| 21:47.24 | T0mW | sorphin: with embedded systems, you have to be very aware of the chip organization. |
| 21:47.55 | T0mW | sorphin: not the controller, RAM controllers are stupid^H^H^H^H^H^H dumb devices |
| 21:48.16 | sorphin | then what? |
| 21:48.19 | T0mW | RAM controllers have no intellegence |
| 21:48.41 | T0mW | it is the BOOT ROM that tests the RAM both ways to see what it is. |
| 21:48.48 | sorphin | well |
| 21:48.57 | sorphin | dunno if i can make OBP talk differently |
| 21:49.05 | sorphin | what's even more fun |
| 21:49.12 | sorphin | Sun supports 10bit and 11bit column memory |
| 21:49.16 | sorphin | if you use 11bit |
| 21:49.19 | sorphin | you lose 1/2 your slots |
| 21:50.00 | T0mW | the BOOT ROM programs the controller for 8K, does a quick ram test (writes a few locations high & low), then it reprograms the controller to 4K refresh and tests again. |
| 21:50.13 | sorphin | nod |
| 21:50.26 | sorphin | be nice if i could adapt OBP to do that, but not likely |
| 21:50.36 | sorphin | that 10 and 11 bit throws me too |
| 21:50.45 | T0mW | sorphin: 10 / 11 bit column is 4K vs 8K |
| 21:52.10 | T0mW | sorphin: that's why SDRAM has a small EEPROM on it |
| 21:52.38 | T0mW | the BIOS reads the EEPROM and gets all the config data on the RAM module |
| 21:52.42 | prpplague | T0mW: uea |
| 21:52.48 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, what are those circles |
| 21:52.57 | sorphin | T0mW: well this board supports both |
| 21:53.01 | sorphin | so shouldn't these work then? |
| 21:53.09 | T0mW | prpplague: dunno just why they put them there, but they generally mean "current source" |
| 21:53.12 | sorphin | i guess i have to use the 10bit slots first |
| 21:53.21 | sorphin | which will make the other slots run 10bit too |
| 21:53.29 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh |
| 21:53.53 | T0mW | prpplague: usually it is a "constant current source" |
| 21:54.41 | sorphin | T0mW: ? |
| 21:54.43 | T0mW | sorphin: maybe you'll have to buzz out an 8K RAM module and a 4K module to see what hte differences are? |
| 21:54.50 | sorphin | heh |
| 21:55.05 | sorphin | or when i get home, try them in the non 11 bit capable slots |
| 21:55.07 | sorphin | see what happens |
| 21:58.48 | prpplague | T0mW: you ever used that iron on pcb ethching stuff? |
| 22:00.58 | T0mW | sorphin: a DRAM works differently than an SRAM. Address data is strobed into the device into 10..12 bit lines: RAS + CAS. Depending on how the controller is programmed, 10 or 11 bits are strobed on the RAS cycle, then the remaining bits are strobed in with the CAS cycle |
| 22:03.53 | T0mW | sorphin: so, a 4 meg device would need 22 bits total (A0..A21), 4K device would put 10bits on RAS, then other 12 bits on CAS. An 8k device would put 11 bits on RAS and 11bits on CAS. |
| 22:04.25 | T0mW | sorphin: you cannot "move the wires" |
| 22:05.31 | T0mW | sorphin: since the sparc board is attempting to strobe 11 RAS bits into a device that will only accept 10 RAS bits, that is why it is "smaller: |
| 22:05.42 | T0mW | s/smaller:/smaller |
| 22:05.51 | sorphin | prpplague: i have |
| 22:06.22 | sorphin | T0mW: well, what is interesting is |
| 22:06.53 | sorphin | i put it in the '11 bit capable slots' and 1/2 ran it as 1/2, would running in all the slots then tell it, ok, we need to run in 10bit mode instead? |
| 22:09.01 | T0mW | cannot make blanket statements about RAM, it depends on how the card is constructed: e.g. 32 bit vs 64 bit data path, how many RAM chips on the board: 8 vs 16 |
| 22:09.48 | T0mW | sorphin: hey, you want to run a Sparc, you are going to spend money, right? |
| 22:16.49 | prpplague | jbevren: http://www.halted.com/commerce/catalog/productmisc.jsp?product_id=18627&czuid=1154556816750 |
| 22:16.55 | prpplague | jbevren: sdram for the pixter |
| 22:17.57 | T0mW | prpplague: ooo! Free RAM! |
| 22:18.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:18.20 | T0mW | there is no price: "$0.00" |
| 22:18.25 | T0mW | heh |
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| 22:19.40 | prpplague | yea you have to call for a quote |
| 22:20.52 | T0mW | prpplague: oh, so, if you sound like you have no money, they'll give you lower price. |
| 22:21.21 | T0mW | prpplague: or, maybe they are ashamed of the price they are asking for and they need you on the phone to give you the "hard sell" |
| 22:21.21 | T0mW | heh |
| 22:23.10 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:23.50 | prpplague | surprised they have that |
| 22:23.56 | prpplague | normally all they have is 5v stuff |
| 22:29.30 | sorphin | T0mW: these dimms are these: http://i7.ebayimg.com/04/i/07/bd/45/2a_1_sbl.JPG |
| 22:29.36 | sorphin | lotsa chips |
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| 23:32.19 | chouimat | sorphin: ping |
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