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| 12:43.13 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
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| 13:12.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: morning crack baby |
| 13:21.28 | jbevren | yawn |
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| 13:31.01 | prpplague | sjhill: hey hey |
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| 13:36.33 | prpplague | hehe, the juicebox hackers only seem to come out at night |
| 13:37.32 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:38.16 | prpplague | speaking of crack babies |
| 13:38.19 | prpplague | chouimat: morning |
| 13:40.12 | sjhill | hey prpplague |
| 13:40.42 | prpplague | sjhill: whats cookin? |
| 13:41.12 | prpplague | sjhill: tropical storm can through yesterday, power is off at the office, so i'm home today |
| 13:55.14 | sjhill | i have a lot of loose ends to wrap today |
| 13:55.22 | sjhill | and i am so unmotivaterd |
| 13:59.28 | prpplague | sjhill: know how you feel |
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| 14:10.58 | prpplague | praefect: greetings |
| 14:17.02 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=mbuf@59.92.61.248) |
| 14:17.25 | prpplague | mbuf: greetings |
| 14:17.51 | mbuf | prpplague, hi, give me 10 minutes, will get back |
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| 14:46.23 | mbuf | prpplague, will be moving to flextronics next week end |
| 14:46.30 | prpplague | mbuf: cool |
| 14:46.38 | mbuf | can i announce something on GPLv3 here ? |
| 14:47.07 | prpplague | mbuf: you mean to discuss the GPLv3 ? |
| 14:47.30 | mbuf | prpplague, no, want to give link to photos that I took at GPLv3 conference at IIM, Bangalore, last two days |
| 14:47.50 | prpplague | mbuf: oh, yea, you can post a url for that |
| 14:48.25 | mbuf | prpplague, thanks, photos taken by me at GPLv3 conference that took place on August 23-24, 2006 at IIM, Bangalore are available here: http://www.shakthimaan.com/Mambo/gallery/album36 |
| 14:49.01 | mbuf | prpplague, my friend Dick ("ragrot") gave me the HOWTO and source for gadget on the s3c2410, it is available here : http://www.shakthimaan.com/dick |
| 14:50.00 | prpplague | mbuf: hehe, you might want to change the url address for that, hehe |
| 14:50.19 | prpplague | mbuf: any alu gobi on the menu for lunch? |
| 14:50.32 | mbuf | prpplague, yeah, food was good at IIM |
| 14:50.55 | mbuf | prpplague, well its just that we know and i will be moving it somewhere else so |
| 14:50.57 | prpplague | mbuf: we already have our gadget driver working pretty well |
| 14:51.03 | mbuf | prpplague, yeah you told me that |
| 14:51.38 | prpplague | mbuf: tomw is also working on the littlechips board |
| 14:51.52 | prpplague | mbuf: he's not here at the momment, but he's done pretty well with 2.6.18 |
| 14:52.13 | prpplague | sorry 2.6.16 |
| 14:52.31 | mbuf | prpplague, i see |
| 14:53.00 | mbuf | prpplague, looks like i might be working on the gadget for a while, looks like there is lot of demand, and i need to do my homework also |
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| 16:27.13 | spacewrench | prpplague: do you have any info on recent "defective by design" court cases? |
| 16:31.40 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.68.20.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 16:32.22 | T0mW | it seems that it is time for me to change the email account tied to the newsgroups: I got > 100 junk mails on that account this morning. |
| 16:32.49 | chouimat | T0mW: hehe |
| 16:33.23 | T0mW | do people actually think that by badly misspelling words that others are going to be eager to deal with them? |
| 16:34.00 | chouimat | T0mW: maybe |
| 16:34.23 | T0mW | I dunno too, there just may be that many gulliable people out there, heh |
| 16:34.58 | chouimat | T0mW: must be ... they seems to make a lot of money with them ... |
| 16:37.17 | T0mW | must be like selling used cars, it is all in the numbers of people that you can get to kick the tires.. |
| 16:37.59 | T0mW | what is a "usb gadget"? |
| 16:38.29 | T0mW | from the perspective of linux being the "gadget" |
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| 16:49.25 | sjhill | T0mW: yep |
| 16:50.03 | T0mW | sjhill: heh, they let you out for a while? |
| 16:50.12 | sjhill | T0mW: yeah, that was stupid of them, huh? |
| 16:50.18 | T0mW | sjhill:heh |
| 16:50.44 | T0mW | sjhill: yeah, you just might wander off an find something interesting to tinker with. |
| 16:50.59 | sjhill | ugh |
| 16:51.05 | sjhill | you should see how much hardware i have on my desk |
| 16:51.16 | sjhill | it's a disaster |
| 16:51.20 | sjhill | i'm such a technoslob |
| 16:51.59 | T0mW | sjhill: dead bodies all over the place eh? |
| 16:52.24 | sjhill | all new stuff |
| 16:52.40 | T0mW | even better, what are you playing with now? |
| 16:53.25 | T0mW | sjhill: I kept yapping at a client how he should just throw away his current unit and start over again... |
| 16:53.32 | T0mW | sjhill: he finally said "ok" |
| 16:53.35 | sjhill | dsp and usb stuff |
| 16:54.07 | T0mW | sjhill: so, I've got a drop dead of April next year to do this system. |
| 16:54.46 | sjhill | T0mW: you want me to help don't you |
| 16:54.51 | T0mW | sjhill: at least it is regular money coming in and I get to play with linux. |
| 16:55.04 | T0mW | sjhill: no, I know that isn't going to happen. |
| 16:55.16 | sjhill | actually come december i could help |
| 16:55.27 | T0mW | sjhill: you barely have time to mess around on irc |
| 16:56.12 | T0mW | sjhill: let me ask you, what is a "usb gadget"? |
| 16:56.15 | sjhill | 'cause i'm workin' |
| 16:56.19 | sjhill | usb gadget |
| 16:56.25 | sjhill | think of it this way |
| 16:56.35 | sjhill | you have a normal embedded linux board |
| 16:56.52 | jbevren | its the opposite of a host :D |
| 16:56.54 | sjhill | instead of having usb host controllers, you have usb device controller |
| 16:56.55 | T0mW | sjhill: is this like linux can behave like a number of usb gadgets: file storage, printer, etc.? |
| 16:56.59 | sjhill | there you go |
| 16:57.03 | T0mW | ok |
| 16:57.07 | jbevren | right |
| 16:57.09 | jbevren | like |
| 16:57.13 | jbevren | on my gp2x, I modprobe g_ether |
| 16:57.18 | T0mW | I have a usb on this board, both controller and slave interfaces. |
| 16:57.21 | jbevren | and windows says "new network interface founD" |
| 16:57.22 | jbevren | literally |
| 16:57.26 | T0mW | ah |
| 16:57.28 | sjhill | do a search for goku nec linux |
| 16:57.29 | T0mW | good |
| 16:57.35 | jbevren | or I modprobe g_serial, and windows finds another serial port |
| 16:57.43 | T0mW | I got a driver from hh.org for this chip |
| 16:57.45 | jbevren | same for storage, which is its default mode |
| 16:58.01 | sjhill | go jbevren! |
| 16:58.16 | sjhill | T0mW: you should subcontract to jbevren |
| 16:58.17 | T0mW | sjhill: he does well at listening to others, heh |
| 16:58.21 | jbevren | hehe |
| 16:58.31 | jbevren | T0mW: acutally, thats by experience :) |
| 16:58.35 | jbevren | not by listening |
| 16:58.37 | jbevren | most is from listening |
| 16:58.39 | T0mW | jbevren: heh |
| 16:58.51 | jbevren | <- really has a gp2x, which has two gadget controllers and one host controller |
| 16:58.52 | T0mW | jbevren: "you get burned, you learn" |
| 16:58.55 | sjhill | i did kernel work with the NEC Goku usb gadget stuff |
| 16:59.07 | sjhill | bbiab |
| 16:59.09 | jbevren | T0mW: Let me count the sodlering iron burns from ages ago :) |
| 16:59.45 | T0mW | jbevren: or the tiny rows of dots scars on your arms from leaning on an ic that was upturned. |
| 17:01.05 | jbevren | T0mW: that too ;-) |
| 17:01.11 | jbevren | T0mW: I once stepped on a nail too |
| 17:01.13 | jbevren | pierced my arch |
| 17:01.15 | T0mW | actaully, I googled around a bit last night after discovering that the touchscreen driver code for this board is useless, and found that the hp ipaq H1940 uses the same processor. |
| 17:01.29 | jbevren | I was young and needless to say rather upset. |
| 17:01.46 | T0mW | and, hh.org has some recent code for the 2.6.17 kernel with a lot of stuff already implemented. |
| 17:02.47 | chouimat | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraSPARC_T1 <---- I want one of those :) |
| 17:02.55 | T0mW | I'm thinking of using their patch, then patching in the stuff I've done so far. |
| 17:04.11 | T0mW | chouimat: now, if you had one of those things, just what would you do with it? huh? ;) |
| 17:04.24 | T0mW | heh |
| 17:05.07 | T0mW | probably stop doing the firewall stuff and start producing your own full lenght animae stuff |
| 17:05.18 | chouimat | T0mW: haha |
| 17:05.33 | T0mW | chouimat: x-rated of course |
| 17:05.36 | jbevren | When a cache miss occurs, the core switches to another thread (assuming one is available) while the data is fetched into cache in the background. |
| 17:05.40 | jbevren | very cool |
| 17:05.50 | chouimat | T0mW: currently I'm trying to understand CANopen ... |
| 17:06.17 | chouimat | jbevren: it's getting better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraSPARC_T2 |
| 17:06.18 | T0mW | chouimat: CAN has been around for a while, interesting stuff, I've not used it for anything. |
| 17:07.04 | jbevren | chouimat: oh wait |
| 17:07.09 | jbevren | these dont show as SMP? |
| 17:07.15 | chouimat | T0mW: it's a project some friend and I are working for a while on ... so far it doesn't pay much but it seems I will get a fair amount of the profit of the sales so ... |
| 17:07.23 | chouimat | jbevren: nope |
| 17:07.27 | jbevren | very interesting |
| 17:07.47 | jbevren | so it runs the threads simultaneously anyway? |
| 17:08.05 | chouimat | jbevren: look like it ... |
| 17:08.06 | T0mW | heh, truely concurrent smp eh? |
| 17:08.16 | jbevren | interesting |
| 17:08.27 | jbevren | so the kernel doesnt need smp support if the compiler's good |
| 17:08.56 | chouimat | jbevren: you can get the verilog source of this one ... it's GPL ;) |
| 17:09.15 | jbevren | chouimat: I somehow doubt it'd fit in my spartan3 kit |
| 17:09.24 | chouimat | jbevren: hehe |
| 17:09.42 | jbevren | chouimat: A friend and I are actively developing a retro z80-based system |
| 17:09.58 | jbevren | I plan to stuff it inside a compact mac (think: mac plus/se/classic bw system) for display |
| 17:10.18 | jbevren | 512x342x1 should be enough for a hobby system |
| 17:11.00 | chouimat | jbevren: what i'm working on is a ARM9 based CANopen terminal ... and current design use a lpc2138 as a CAN coprossor (it driving the sja1000 controller) |
| 17:11.39 | jbevren | http://www.retroleum.co.uk/z80-v3demo.html |
| 17:11.46 | jbevren | <- jealous heh |
| 17:11.50 | jbevren | he built that vgc |
| 17:12.09 | T0mW | didn't know that the lpc2138 could do CAN. |
| 17:12.28 | chouimat | T0mW: it can't ... you have to use an external can controller |
| 17:12.33 | T0mW | ok |
| 17:12.50 | chouimat | jbevren: if someone build a 6809 Coco3 clone I will be happy ;) |
| 17:13.31 | jbevren | I never played with coco's much |
| 17:13.36 | jbevren | I was lucky to have a vic-20 |
| 17:13.37 | jbevren | mm 5k ram |
| 17:13.44 | jbevren | 3583 bytes usable after basic came up |
| 17:13.46 | jbevren | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:14.01 | jbevren | I had an -endless- amount of memory when Igot an 8k ram cartridge |
| 17:14.08 | jbevren | nod |
| 17:14.15 | jbevren | I got a c64 when I was in high school (1992ish) |
| 17:14.18 | jbevren | cost me $5 :) |
| 17:14.31 | T0mW | with an additonal 32K of ram I soldered in and banked. |
| 17:14.47 | jbevren | there's a 4066 used to multiplex d8-d11 on the vdc to d0-d3 during video fetches |
| 17:14.47 | jbevren | this c64's unit was bad :) |
| 17:14.48 | jbevren | ocst me $5 to fix it |
| 17:14.59 | jbevren | T0mW: the most common inboard ram expansion is 256k |
| 17:15.09 | T0mW | at least you got the schematics for that stuff back then |
| 17:15.10 | chouimat | jbevren: I still have a coco3 working and also a ZX-81 |
| 17:15.15 | jbevren | since the 4164 and the 41256 are compatible with each other, its perfect |
| 17:15.27 | jbevren | an additional PIO chip was added to control banks in 16k sizes |
| 17:15.35 | jbevren | some multitasking stuff was developed for it too |
| 17:15.46 | jbevren | chouimat: I had a timex/sinclair 1000 |
| 17:15.56 | jbevren | I ended up building it into an old b/w tv |
| 17:16.05 | chouimat | jbevren: those where the good days ... |
| 17:16.47 | T0mW | chouimat: yeah right, now the lpc2106 has more ram / rom / processing power in one chip that we had in an entire computer. |
| 17:16.53 | jbevren | hehe |
| 17:16.57 | jbevren | T0mW: Precisely |
| 17:17.03 | jbevren | you had to understand efficiency back then |
| 17:17.08 | jbevren | what with only 300kops/sec |
| 17:17.14 | T0mW | put an SD card on the SPI circuit and you are "there". |
| 17:17.19 | jbevren | hehe |
| 17:17.24 | jbevren | I'm going to use a SD card for storage |
| 17:17.35 | T0mW | jbevren: I have only one thing to say: overlays |
| 17:18.12 | chouimat | T0mW: true :) |
| 17:18.31 | T0mW | overlay the memory, heh, you could probably take an lpc2106 and build yourself a whopper of a personal system: circa 1980's |
| 17:19.00 | chouimat | T0mW: yes ... |
| 17:19.09 | T0mW | heh, LPC-visacalc anyone? |
| 17:19.19 | chouimat | LOL |
| 17:19.43 | chouimat | ok now time to start the linux installation on my ibook ... |
| 17:20.06 | T0mW | man, the chips we got to work with today are just amazing! |
| 17:20.58 | chouimat | T0mW: I like this board:http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts7300-spec-h.htm |
| 17:21.38 | T0mW | you gotta remember to put a space in there |
| 17:21.52 | chouimat | T0mW: sorry |
| 17:22.19 | T0mW | I am not a big fan of large gate arrays, they suck up ton of current. |
| 17:23.19 | T0mW | nice board though |
| 17:24.28 | T0mW | whew! "10 RS232 serial ports (more possible if TTL only)" |
| 17:25.03 | chouimat | T0mW: hehe |
| 17:37.35 | jbevren | http://amigos.amiga.hu/dino/mouse.jpg |
| 17:42.47 | jbevren | ethernet. Compact flash cards fit the bill nicely for the mass storage, being faster than MMC cards |
| 17:42.50 | jbevren | what's this guy smoking? |
| 17:42.57 | jbevren | 100Mbit is faster than many of my cf cards :) |
| 17:43.02 | jbevren | and apparently sandisk makes em that fast |
| 17:44.01 | T0mW | jbevren: maybe he is intimidated with a serial circuit? |
| 17:44.25 | T0mW | cul, got to go see a woman about a computer |
| 17:44.32 | jbevren | T0mW`gone: Shrug |
| 17:44.37 | jbevren | I'm going to be using one anyway for the vgc |
| 17:44.48 | jbevren | 1bpp kinda needs parallel-serial conversion |
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| 18:30.14 | prpplague | spacewrench: greetings |
| 18:30.20 | prpplague | spacewrench: was off doing some work |
| 18:30.50 | prpplague | spacewrench: yea the court case i was thinking of just happened recently but i've not had time to get a url topost |
| 18:34.40 | spacewrench | oh, hi. was off working on some patent apps. |
| 18:35.41 | spacewrench | I don't do any copyright work, but I'm very interested in the area. |
| 18:38.14 | prpplague | spacewrench: ahh |
| 18:39.18 | spacewrench | The histrionics on slashdot etc. about copyright, patent & so on are usually all mixed up, and then you never find out what actually happens in the case. |
| 18:39.55 | spacewrench | For example, what happened to that guy who was selling software that was specifically designed to let you back up your DVDs? |
| 18:40.41 | prpplague | spacewrench: yea they usually don't follow up on that stuff |
| 18:42.14 | spacewrench | I think it'd be fun to build the JB SD adapter cart, but sell it as a paperweight. Shrink-wrap license that specifically forbids loading the proprietary code on the NAND flash into the memory of a juicebox. Warns of copyright infringement action. |
| 18:42.32 | prpplague | spacewrench: hehe yea |
| 18:42.42 | prpplague | spacewrench: i think you could get away with selling it |
| 18:42.51 | spacewrench | Then, when Emsoft complains, counterclaim for infringement against them, since they purchased and used the device |
| 18:42.58 | prpplague | spacewrench: i just want people to be aware that there "might" be issues |
| 18:43.48 | prpplague | spacewrench: on the one hand you see people using developer cartridges for the gameboy advanced with no major problems |
| 18:44.08 | spacewrench | Right. But you have to really analyze things, otherwise you don't do fun stuff that you're legally entitled to do. |
| 18:44.21 | spacewrench | Yeah, I have some GB devel stuff myself. |
| 18:44.23 | prpplague | spacewrench: but on the other, you find mod chips for things like the xbox which are usually sued over it |
| 18:45.07 | spacewrench | I haven't looked at the modchips and the lawsuits. But a lot of suits are really just scare tactics -- they wouldn't hold up if somebody actually did a technical analysis. |
| 18:45.22 | spacewrench | Problem is, there's no deep pockets on the side that could win with a good tech analysis. |
| 18:45.39 | prpplague | true, but most of these guys are nothing more than hobbists so , that would be enough |
| 18:46.13 | spacewrench | grrr. pisses me off that corps can get away with stuff like that. |
| 18:46.33 | prpplague | spacewrench: tech wise, a custom cart would be easy to do, and be pretty useful |
| 18:47.33 | spacewrench | Yep. The JB is a really cheap platform for hacking on. Cheaper than GBs, even. I'm renovating a house now, and plan to use something like the JB or GBA to run the thermostat |
| 18:48.56 | prpplague | ahh cool |
| 18:54.26 | jbevren | spacewrench: perfect |
| 18:54.31 | jbevren | that little display and a little added IO |
| 18:54.33 | jbevren | hehe |
| 19:07.18 | spacewrench | I'd like a SD adapter board with soldered NAND flash, in the same size & shape as the JB MP3 board (so I could stick it in the plastic housing). |
| 19:08.19 | spacewrench | And a devel board with JTAG, serial, SD socket, and bootable flash, that plugs in the top. |
| 19:08.44 | prpplague | yea that would be nice |
| 19:08.46 | spacewrench | Maybe even a prototyping area. |
| 19:09.14 | prpplague | spacewrench: have you seen some of our other current hacks? like the pixter multimedia? |
| 19:09.58 | spacewrench | no, I'm not really hooked into the community. (I'm an evil lawyer, after all :-) |
| 19:10.20 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:10.37 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/wiki/PixterMultimedia |
| 19:11.21 | spacewrench | man, elinux.org is slow. |
| 19:13.17 | spacewrench | ah, neat. There are so many of these things out, it's weird that none of the mfgrs want people to hack 'em. |
| 19:13.54 | spacewrench | Lego was the same way with the RCX, but I think they've started to come around. Too little too late, though, probably. |
| 19:14.28 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:15.08 | prpplague | spacewrench: we've been getting lots of hits on the elinux pages lately |
| 19:17.11 | prpplague | spacewrench: yea, if companies like mattel and fisher-price would get a clue about homebrew developers they could have sold a lot more of their products |
| 19:17.29 | prpplague | spacewrench: but alot of these companies are sticking to old school business models |
| 19:18.33 | spacewrench | the weird thing is, I don't see how it hurts them to have a developer community. I guess it's like GBA, they want to control the quality of the games (and get developer license fees) |
| 19:19.08 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:19.30 | spacewrench | But if somebody hacks up a killer game for JB, Mattel sells more hardware (or would, if they hadn't pulled the plug!) |
| 19:19.46 | prpplague | hehe yea |
| 19:20.56 | chouimat | jbevren: btw the cheapest ultrasparc T1 box is around 4000USD |
| 19:21.06 | jbevren | grumble |
| 19:21.10 | jbevren | may as well get a meso999 |
| 19:22.56 | chouimat | jbevren: http://www.sun.com/servers/index.jsp?cat=CoolThreads%20Servers&tab=3&subcat=UltraSPARC%20T1 |
| 19:27.53 | jbevren | stoppit :) |
| 19:27.58 | jbevren | tempt me not you evil beast |
| 19:34.04 | chouimat | ;) |
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| 20:04.33 | prpplague | mallum: she pop yet? she pop yet? |
| 20:04.42 | jbevren | hah |
| 20:04.50 | jbevren | afk lunch |
| 20:04.56 | mallum | not yet ;) |
| 20:05.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:05.26 | prpplague | mallum: we want 8mega pixel photos of it all for the elinux.org pages |
| 20:08.57 | mallum | sure thing :) |
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| 21:05.34 | jbevren | hehe |
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