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| 01:46.17 | sunrunner20 | mmm |
| 01:46.20 | sunrunner20 | 12months same as cash |
| 01:46.27 | sunrunner20 | hrm |
| 01:46.32 | sunrunner20 | oh |
| 01:46.32 | sunrunner20 | well |
| 01:46.39 | sunrunner20 | i'll have it paid in 12months |
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| 13:39.50 | isenbeck | mornin' all |
| 13:40.02 | prpplague | isenbeck: greetings |
| 13:44.49 | isenbeck | prpplague, another day in paradice |
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| 14:02.29 | chouimat | morning |
| 14:02.34 | prpplague | sjhill: ping |
| 14:21.44 | sjhill | prpplague: yes? |
| 14:22.42 | prpplague | sjhill: need your $.02 |
| 14:23.22 | prpplague | sjhill: marvell has a linux driver for the 88w8385 which has a included firmware file |
| 14:23.44 | prpplague | sjhill: whats your thoughts/opinions/experience, on using that firmware file with a GPL driver? |
| 14:25.12 | prpplague | sjhill: its nothing more than an array |
| 14:25.13 | prpplague | unsigned char fmimage[] = { |
| 14:25.13 | prpplague | 0x01, |
| 14:25.13 | prpplague | 0x00, |
| 14:25.14 | prpplague | 0x00, |
| 14:25.22 | prpplague | and so on |
| 14:28.24 | sjhill | let me think on that and get back to you |
| 14:28.41 | prpplague | sjhill: np |
| 14:29.19 | prpplague | sjhill: just thought with your experience at BCM that you'd had some idea how these wireless issues would be looked at |
| 14:36.04 | MonMotha | prpplague: I personally see no problem with binary firmware blobs in GPL drivers |
| 14:36.20 | MonMotha | as a programming convention, I'd separate them out into a header, but I have no problem with it being compiled in |
| 14:36.44 | MonMotha | the firmware blob is not a part of the GPL'd application, but rather data. As such, the GPL would only apply to redistributing the blob as data, no need for source |
| 14:36.57 | MonMotha | not a part of the application's runnable code that is |
| 14:37.07 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, i was thinking more on the side of the company side |
| 14:37.17 | prpplague | MonMotha: i.e. distribution |
| 14:37.19 | MonMotha | that would be my understanding of how the GPL would apply to it |
| 14:38.19 | MonMotha | as I said, the way I read the GPL, you'd only have to allow users to redistribute the firmware blob freely as part of redistribution of the GPL'd driver (which you must include the source for). The firmware itself is just data that the driver needs access to, much like a graphic to be displayed on the screen. As such, source code for the firmware should not be required |
| 14:39.01 | MonMotha | of course, including said source (if you can) is a nice gesture |
| 14:39.26 | prpplague | MonMotha: right, but what i'm getting at is if the firmware owner, in this case marvell, doesn't want the firmware distributed with GPL source |
| 14:39.35 | MonMotha | ah, hum |
| 14:39.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: as in a what if |
| 14:40.06 | MonMotha | in that case you'd probably have to take one of two options |
| 14:40.22 | MonMotha | 1) build it on the end-user's system by downloading the firmware blob from the website at build time. The resulting binary would not be distributable as it would violate the GPL in that respect. This is essentially what nVidia does |
| 14:41.09 | MonMotha | 2) use the hotplug/udev runtime firmware interface and download the firmware blob to the user's system as part of installation. The driver is GPL under any circumstances then, but the user has to have all the hotplug firmware crap (which most desktops have, most embedded systems often don't) |
| 14:41.16 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, see the firmware is available as a header file in the open source(NOT GPL) driver |
| 14:42.04 | prpplague | MonMotha: after all, they distribute the firmware with the OLPC |
| 14:42.07 | MonMotha | well, you could make part of "make" be to download and unpack said header from Marvell then build it together. The result would not be GPL compatible though, and as such would not be distributable. Each user would have the build the driver themselves |
| 14:42.10 | prpplague | MonMotha: with their GPL driver |
| 14:42.48 | MonMotha | if the firmware has ever been distributed by Marvell to anybody as part of a GPL driver, it becomes a part of that GPL'd driver (the blob does) and as such can be distribtued under the GPL, including derrivative works (separating it out) |
| 14:43.15 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, its not distributed under GPL |
| 14:43.35 | prpplague | MonMotha: the firmware is in blob format |
| 14:44.13 | MonMotha | then the firmware isn't distributable unless Marvell says so |
| 14:45.09 | prpplague | MonMotha: but yet they allow distribution of binary drivers with the firmware included |
| 14:45.13 | MonMotha | however, if the firmware (even as a blob in a header or binary image) has been distributed as part of a GPL'd package (such as a GPL driver), the firmware blob is covered by the GPL |
| 14:45.33 | MonMotha | if the driver isn't GPL, then they can add conditions such as no redistribution (IIRC, nVidia does this) |
| 14:45.57 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, thats the thing, none of this stuff has ever been release as GPL |
| 14:46.29 | prpplague | MonMotha: previously the olpc libertas driver loaded the firmware from the /lib/firmware directory, but now its actually included in the driver |
| 14:46.30 | MonMotha | then you probably don't have the ability to include the blob in a GPL distribution |
| 14:46.43 | MonMotha | is the libertas driver distributed under the GPL? |
| 14:46.53 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 14:47.00 | prpplague | MonMotha: see thats whats confusing |
| 14:47.12 | MonMotha | so you have the source to libertas, including a header file with a firmware blob in it, delivered to you under the GPL? |
| 14:47.36 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 14:47.46 | MonMotha | then you may distribute that header file under the GPL |
| 14:47.55 | MonMotha | you may also prepare derivative works of it |
| 14:48.01 | prpplague | MonMotha: but that blob is for the 88w8388 not the 88w8385 |
| 14:48.17 | MonMotha | ah |
| 14:48.56 | MonMotha | let me guess, small changes are required, and you know what they are, but only as a result of seeing the non-GPL blob for the 8385? |
| 14:48.56 | prpplague | MonMotha: what about stuff like usage of the ndiswrapper stuff |
| 14:49.19 | MonMotha | well, ndiswrapper doesn't distribute the binary windows blobs, right? |
| 14:49.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: some packages do |
| 14:49.59 | MonMotha | ndiswrapper loads the blob at runtime, right? |
| 14:50.06 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 14:50.21 | MonMotha | ok, so there's no GPL issue. Presumably those packages have obtained permission to redistribute the binary blobs? |
| 14:50.51 | prpplague | thats what i would think, but...... |
| 14:50.55 | MonMotha | if not, they're technically probably doing something they aren't supposed to, but manufacturers tend to allow free distribution of windows drivers anyway |
| 14:51.04 | prpplague | yea |
| 14:51.21 | MonMotha | for some reason, manufacturers are more controlling of their linux drivers than windows drivers |
| 14:51.30 | prpplague | yea |
| 14:51.53 | MonMotha | probably because they can be: Linux distributions tend to be more aware of legal issues surrounding copyright (because the GPL relies heavily on it) than your average windows "download" site |
| 14:52.11 | prpplague | yep |
| 14:52.33 | MonMotha | it sounds like the easiest way to remain compliant would be to use the hotplug runtime firmware download facility, and as part of installation download the stuff from Marvell and transform it into whatever you need on the user's system |
| 14:53.01 | MonMotha | that's how most packages get around this issue. The manuf. has the file on their website but doesn't allow redistribution, so you donwload it from them, yank the file you need, and use it |
| 14:53.14 | MonMotha | that's how ivtv (for the Hauppage PVR series TV tuner) works for firmware |
| 14:53.25 | prpplague | yea familiar with that too |
| 14:53.35 | MonMotha | I realize that's a pain in the ass... |
| 14:54.19 | prpplague | MonMotha: part of the problem is that the marvell linux driver was released with no license at all |
| 14:54.25 | MonMotha | really.. |
| 14:54.45 | MonMotha | there's an implicit copyright that everybody gets |
| 14:55.14 | MonMotha | however, they are freely distributing their package, and it could possibly be argued that without a prohibition on doing so, redistributing unmodified versions would be OK |
| 14:55.30 | MonMotha | that's certainly a common thing in computer land, especially wrt drivers |
| 14:55.43 | MonMotha | I'm not saying it's correct, but that it could potentially be argued |
| 14:56.39 | MonMotha | certainly the ideal thing would be to ask for clarification, but the answer you receive might not be one you like |
| 14:57.18 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 15:01.01 | prpplague | MonMotha: i'm just gonna use the header file as is right now |
| 15:01.24 | prpplague | MonMotha: if someone complains we can always deal with it |
| 15:03.28 | MonMotha | that's one option :) |
| 15:10.10 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, just checked with the olpc guys |
| 15:10.19 | prpplague | MonMotha: the firmware is loaded seperately |
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| 15:15.06 | MonMotha | prpplague: ok, so I guess do it that way |
| 15:15.12 | MonMotha | still have to find a way to get/distribute the firmware image |
| 15:15.29 | MonMotha | in theory, users can get it off their windows CD |
| 15:15.33 | MonMotha | the driver disc |
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| 15:17.05 | *** join/#edev surfbuddy (n=VA44227@217.110.68.82) |
| 15:17.38 | surfbuddy | hi.. guys.. with a new problem.. i want to convert a ARM assembly code into GCC..can anyone help me please ? |
| 15:18.10 | MonMotha | um, so you want to take a disassembly and get C out of it? |
| 15:18.12 | MonMotha | good luck... |
| 15:19.02 | surfbuddy | MonMotha, nopes...i jsut want to convert a simple ARM assembly file into GCC. |
| 15:19.17 | MonMotha | still, you want C from assembly? |
| 15:19.17 | prpplague | surfbuddy: what you are stating doesn't make sense |
| 15:19.27 | prpplague | surfbuddy: gcc is a compilier |
| 15:19.37 | chouimat | asm( .... ) ? |
| 15:19.59 | MonMotha | you want C from assembly? inline assembly in C that GCC will handle? what do you want? |
| 15:20.44 | surfbuddy | prpplague, ya..sorry..whats rong with me.. ! i want to convert a Keil compiler specific Assembly code into GCC .. |
| 15:21.24 | prpplague | into gcc specific assembly code? |
| 15:21.38 | MonMotha | I'm guessing inline assembly |
| 15:21.38 | surfbuddy | yup... |
| 15:21.47 | MonMotha | and the syntax for that does vary by compiler |
| 15:23.12 | philv | I think there's a reference guide kicking around about how to inline assembly in gcc |
| 15:24.07 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 15:24.30 | MonMotha | I'm guessing that you'll either just end up rewriting it by hand or rolling your own perl script (or whatever) to do it |
| 15:26.30 | Crofton | I had that guide a few weeks back, didn't save it though :( |
| 15:26.59 | philv | It's quite quickly googlable |
| 15:27.05 | Crofton | yeah |
| 15:27.17 | Crofton | that's why I bookmark less stuff these days :) |
| 15:27.25 | Crofton | ~quote scox |
| 15:27.39 | MonMotha | google has completely changed the way I browse. I used to value by bookmark list with my life, but now it just doesn't mattery |
| 15:28.41 | Crofton | I use del.icio.us for stuff I really want to bookmark anyway |
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| 16:14.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: greetings |
| 16:15.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: got my card working, turns out there was a hardcoded item in the marvell makefile linking in the wrong transceiver code |
| 16:15.37 | CosmicPenguin | bastards! |
| 16:15.42 | chouimat | hi CosmicPenguin |
| 16:16.36 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 17:01.20 | surfbuddy | http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/2885 - can anyone help me with this assembly |
| 17:05.43 | surfbuddy | i want to know, if everything is specific to GAS, and why do I get an error - Error: internal_relocation (type: OFFSET_IMM) not fixed up |
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| 17:29.24 | prpplague | surfbuddy: its impossible to help you with that without knowing the purpose |
| 17:35.36 | surfbuddy | prpplague, well.i pasted the contents in the pastebin. |
| 17:37.56 | surfbuddy | prpplague , i dont know, why am I still getting this error... what I mentioned.. |
| 17:38.15 | surfbuddy | what else would you need to know to understand the prob ? |
| 17:38.51 | prpplague | surfbuddy: hehe, a whole lot, mainly because we have no clue what you are trying to do |
| 17:39.02 | surfbuddy | prpplague, ok so i am trying to convert this assembly file into gcc specific code. |
| 17:39.13 | surfbuddy | http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/2885 |
| 17:39.35 | prpplague | surfbuddy: yes we know, that |
| 17:39.54 | prpplague | surfbuddy: we have no clue what the assembly file is for , so there is very little we can do to help you convert it |
| 17:40.35 | surfbuddy | ah..moment |
| 17:41.38 | surfbuddy | http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/2887 - so this is the original file. |
| 17:42.09 | surfbuddy | prpplague, and i just want to convert the syntax so that Gcc understands it. |
| 17:42.56 | prpplague | surfbuddy: to what end? |
| 17:43.00 | surfbuddy | prpplague, what the program does is .. process an interrupt.. which you can see in the end..AT91F_ASM_MCI_Handler |
| 17:44.09 | surfbuddy | so..when a interrupt is generated..the pc jumps to AT91F_ASM_MCI_Handler and processes ahead..and now you have macros for entry and exit for the interrupt |
| 17:44.42 | prpplague | surfbuddy: why are you doing all of this in assembly? |
| 17:45.35 | surfbuddy | prpplague, good question..well just becuase i am porting the stuffs in GCC... i did all..except this file... |
| 17:53.18 | surfbuddy | prpplague, what other method do i have though. |
| 17:54.39 | prpplague | surfbuddy: depends on what you are trying to do, which you still haven't told us |
| 18:00.06 | surfbuddy | i have to leave now....let me discuss with this again with u.. |
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| 18:16.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ping |
| 18:27.15 | CosmicPenguin | pong |
| 18:28.05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you have a /proc/net/wireless entry for your olpc libertas stuff? |
| 18:28.23 | CosmicPenguin | yep |
| 18:29.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: would you mind pasting the it? |
| 18:29.36 | CosmicPenguin | Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 21 eth0: 0001 100. -44. -91. 0 0 8239 225 301 0 |
| 18:29.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'll buy you a turnip |
| 18:30.10 | prpplague | hmm, ok |
| 18:30.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm not getting a link level |
| 18:30.40 | CosmicPenguin | more RF pain? |
| 18:31.18 | prpplague | Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE |
| 18:31.19 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:31.19 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:36.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, isn't the link value suppose to be the Signal-to-Noise ratio? |
| 18:36.47 | CosmicPenguin | I hae no idea |
| 18:37.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: why the hell not? |
| 18:37.12 | prpplague | ~lart CosmicPenguin |
| 18:37.18 | CosmicPenguin | because wireless isn't my bag, baby |
| 18:39.20 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:39.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, looks like the code i'm tinkering with sets the link quality to 0 and then never does anything with it |
| 18:56.48 | jbevren | doh |
| 19:15.10 | prpplague | wheeeeee |
| 19:15.18 | prpplague | solar flare on its way |
| 19:55.33 | prpplague | doh, wife just called, the wind blew down our digital tv antenna |
| 19:57.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i almost want to get a olpc unit just so i can tinker with the marvell chipset |
| 19:59.33 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: can you make it happy> |
| 19:59.34 | CosmicPenguin | ? |
| 19:59.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 20:01.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: no clue, but i've definetly made progress in the last few days with the 88w838x in general |
| 20:09.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what are the current problems you guys are seeing? |
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| 20:28.37 | CosmicPenguin | ew - X is evil |
| 20:28.44 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:29.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm getting pretty darn good performance out of this cf card |
| 20:29.25 | CosmicPenguin | when marevell works - it works |
| 20:29.41 | CosmicPenguin | if you get my drift |
| 20:30.38 | CosmicPenguin | I take it you solved your problem? |
| 20:31.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: most of this is simply poor programming on marvell's part |
| 20:31.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've still got some wpa stuff that i need to re-test |
| 20:31.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but if that all works, i'll start testing it with the libertas driver from olpc stuff |
| 20:32.23 | CosmicPenguin | ohh - wpa working on olpc would be l33t |
| 20:32.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ?? |
| 20:32.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you guys dont have wpa working? |
| 20:32.42 | CosmicPenguin | no |
| 20:32.47 | prpplague | DOH DOH |
| 20:32.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: why not? |
| 20:33.24 | CosmicPenguin | only so many bugs in the day |
| 20:33.29 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:35.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: looks like the OLPC folks basically used the marvell provided 2.4 driver as a basis for their driver |
| 20:36.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: bbiab |
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| 23:17.40 | LyosNorezel | grrrrr... iluxa should be shot |
| 23:20.16 | CosmicPenguin | seems a bit harsh |
| 23:21.23 | LyosNorezel | hrumph... if you'd've seen what he/she's been up too... you'd agree |
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