irclog2html for #edev on 20061215

`00:01.52`	`CosmicPenguin`	`prpplague: so, can we count on you to lead the firmware effort?`
`00:57.07`	`*** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-252-243-6.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:13.26`	`*** join/#edev ccjoe (n=ccjoe@www.clearcore.com)`
`01:52.04`	`*** join/#edev ohsix (i=ohsix@bc111222.bendcable.com)`
`03:09.54`	`*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp041.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)`
`03:38.08`	`*** join/#edev leoncamel (n=leoncame@219.238.107.107)`
`04:41.23`	`*** join/#edev FireEgl (n=FireEgl@adsl-61-147-76.bhm.bellsouth.net)`
`06:10.11`	`MonMotha`	`http://www.woot.com/`
`06:10.19`	`MonMotha`	`you know, if it runs linux, that almost makes it worth $60`
`06:10.30`	`jbevren`	`it does?`
`06:10.35`	`jbevren`	`or you dont know`
`06:10.42`	`MonMotha`	`it says it does`
`06:10.46`	`jbevren`	`ah gotcha`
`06:12.17`	`jbevren`	`woot is an estore?`
`06:12.24`	`jbevren`	`I dunno, thats kinda dubious :)`
`06:12.28`	`MonMotha`	`you're not aware of woot?`
`06:12.38`	`MonMotha`	`one day, one deal`
`06:12.38`	`jbevren`	`I wasnt :)`
`06:12.39`	`MonMotha`	`that's woot`
`06:12.43`	`MonMotha`	`they sell one thing every day`
`06:13.16`	`jbevren`	`Oh, its just a data mover`
`06:13.20`	`jbevren`	`I misunderstood its purpose`
`06:13.24`	`jbevren`	`curious`
`06:13.25`	`MonMotha`	`yeah, the device is pretty silly`
`06:13.33`	`MonMotha`	`but it looks to be a neat little piece of hardware, and if it runs linux...`
`06:14.18`	`jbevren`	`http://www.gethitch.com/`
`06:15.01`	`jbevren`	`the important questions arent answered`
`06:15.02`	`jbevren`	`heh`
`06:15.11`	`jbevren`	`they claim its the most portable linux dev box available`
`06:15.17`	`jbevren`	`but dont give hardware specs :0`
`06:15.34`	`MonMotha`	`yeah, that's kinda odd`
`06:15.41`	`MonMotha`	`they do appear to be open to people hacking it`
`06:15.55`	`MonMotha`	`so they likely haven't put any draconian anti-hacking things in it like image checksums on the bootloader`
`06:16.43`	`MonMotha`	`at $65, it's almost tempting`
`06:16.58`	`jbevren`	`I dunno`
`06:17.06`	`jbevren`	`I'm afraid I'd buy it and wind up with some crap marvell arm chip`
`06:17.11`	`jbevren`	`(try finding docs for -those-) :)`
`06:17.37`	`jbevren`	`if I could find docs for those I'd be all over my d-link router hehe`
`06:17.54`	`MonMotha`	`well, it already runs linux`
`06:17.58`	`jbevren`	`nod`
`06:17.58`	`MonMotha`	`so it's gotta at least be somewhat supported`
`06:18.18`	`jbevren`	`wonder where the sources are ;)`
`06:18.40`	`MonMotha`	`indeed`
`06:18.45`	`MonMotha`	`that might give some hint as to hardware`
`06:18.50`	`jbevren`	`precisely`
`06:18.57`	`jbevren`	`see what .config and Makefile say`
`06:19.07`	`jbevren`	`see what dir's are new etc`
`06:19.08`	`jbevren`	`shrug`
`06:20.02`	`MonMotha`	`yeah`
`06:20.08`	`MonMotha`	`I guess perhaps inside their firmware updater exe?`
`06:20.18`	`MonMotha`	`that would be the point at which they'd legally be required to distribute the source`
`06:21.10`	`jbevren`	`hm`
`06:21.14`	`jbevren`	`rd_061011.bin: gzip compressed data, was "sima_ramdrive.img", from Unix, max compression`
`06:21.25`	`MonMotha`	`how'd you take it apart?`
`06:21.30`	`jbevren`	`wine`
`06:21.33`	`MonMotha`	`"unzip" doesn't understand it`
`06:21.34`	`MonMotha`	`oh, ok`
`06:21.38`	`MonMotha`	`I guess I'll bust out my windows machine`
`06:21.41`	`jbevren`	`the isntaller just extracts files`
`06:21.43`	`jbevren`	`well`
`06:21.46`	`jbevren`	`one sec`
`06:21.54`	`MonMotha`	`I need to get it out anyway`
`06:21.58`	`MonMotha`	`need to use Cadence`
`06:22.23`	`jbevren`	`oh`
`06:22.27`	`jbevren`	`I'm not ident'd heh`
`06:22.31`	`*** mode/#edev [+o jbevren] by ChanServ`
`06:23.00`	`jbevren`	`recieve if you can :)`
`06:23.57`	`MonMotha`	`I'm actually on a public IP here`
`06:24.02`	`MonMotha`	`my desktop acts as my router`
`06:24.11`	`jbevren`	`EOS-uClinux(Using above uClibc-0.9.28) EFT/POS Devel. Board (ADChips inc., http:`
`06:24.14`	`jbevren`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:24.20`	`jbevren`	`(strings from the kernel image)`
`06:24.34`	`MonMotha`	`oh, uClinux`
`06:24.34`	`MonMotha`	`interesting`
`06:25.00`	`jbevren`	`kernel 2.4 (net 4.0 string)`
`06:25.18`	`jbevren`	`root is /dev/rom0`
`06:25.49`	`jbevren`	`that said, wtf is a bflt executable`
`06:25.55`	`jbevren`	`I havent heard of that format before`
`06:25.59`	`MonMotha`	`binary flat`
`06:26.02`	`jbevren`	`ah`
`06:26.02`	`MonMotha`	`it's the uClinux binary format`
`06:26.10`	`jbevren`	`gotcha`
`06:26.14`	`MonMotha`	`since in uClinux, you don't have an MMU to do the relocations required by elf`
`06:26.17`	`jbevren`	`right`
`06:26.21`	`MonMotha`	`so it's a flat, relocatable executbale`
`06:26.47`	`jbevren`	`uses hotbplug (?)`
`06:26.53`	`MonMotha`	`ok...`
`06:27.00`	`MonMotha`	`probably a stripped down hotplug`
`06:27.03`	`MonMotha`	`makes sense, since it has USB`
`06:27.07`	`MonMotha`	`host no less`
`06:27.12`	`jbevren`	`ramdisk is ext2`
`06:27.13`	`MonMotha`	`though it's OTG, so you can use a slvae on it too`
`06:27.46`	`jbevren`	`uses busybox`
`06:27.50`	`jbevren`	`ah`
`06:27.57`	`MonMotha`	`hum, source?`
`06:28.21`	`jbevren`	`no sources. I loopback-mounted the ramdisk image`
`06:28.37`	`MonMotha`	`so how big is the hall of shame these days? :)`
`06:28.51`	`jbevren`	`gonna post them? :)`
`06:29.03`	`MonMotha`	`naw, I'm usually fairly nice`
`06:29.15`	`MonMotha`	`I don't usually get mean about GPL issues until the other end does`
`06:29.28`	`MonMotha`	`many companies honestly don't know`
`06:29.30`	`jbevren`	`it has boa installed?`
`06:29.35`	`MonMotha`	`they're used to anything they can download off the internet being freeware`
`06:29.37`	`MonMotha`	`boa?`
`06:29.40`	`jbevren`	`webserver`
`06:29.48`	`jbevren`	`config files for it are in /etc`
`06:29.51`	`MonMotha`	`oh`
`06:29.53`	`MonMotha`	`odd`
`06:29.57`	`MonMotha`	`maybe the itnerface is web based?`
`06:30.03`	`MonMotha`	`or does it do FB/X?`
`06:30.07`	`jbevren`	`empty root password`
`06:30.10`	`jbevren`	`unknown as yet`
`06:30.19`	`jbevren`	`eosmd has a password`
`06:30.33`	`MonMotha`	`heh, so, shall we buy some?`
`06:30.36`	`MonMotha`	`they look cool`
`06:30.43`	`MonMotha`	`lack of MMU is disappointing`
`06:31.01`	`jbevren`	`haha`
`06:31.10`	`jbevren`	`there are ppp chat scripts and passwords in the ramdisk`
`06:31.28`	`MonMotha`	`awesome`
`06:31.34`	`MonMotha`	`why...`
`06:31.36`	`jbevren`	`well`
`06:31.51`	`jbevren`	`nothing too dumb, just ID and PASSWORD (user and pass respecitvely)`
`06:31.56`	`jbevren`	`but the scripts have phone numbers in them`
`06:31.56`	`MonMotha`	`I wonder if they really didn't just take an image for the POS system that this is evidently based off of it and modify it`
`06:32.07`	`jbevren`	`I'm guessing thats teh case`
`06:32.14`	`MonMotha`	`given that POS terminals often require a PPP connection, it would make sense`
`06:32.18`	`MonMotha`	`still doesn't explain the webserver`
`06:32.22`	`jbevren`	`jbevren@wrok:/mnt/etc$ cat hostname`
`06:32.22`	`jbevren`	`eos-d2d`
`06:32.26`	`jbevren`	`jbevren@wrok:/mnt/etc$ cat hosts`
`06:32.28`	`jbevren`	`210.102.3.120 eos`
`06:32.30`	`jbevren`	`blink`
`06:32.31`	`jbevren`	`heh`
`06:32.39`	`jbevren`	`this thing is dirty.`
`06:34.10`	`MonMotha`	`hehe`
`06:35.00`	`MonMotha`	`I've found that most embedded Linux systems are`
`06:35.17`	`jbevren`	`ah`
`06:35.24`	`MonMotha`	`generally, they either got created by "that linux whiz" and were subsequently modified by people who had no clue, or there never was "that linux whiz" in the first place`
`06:35.25`	`jbevren`	`well, I'd have at least removed the IP addresses and phone numbers`
`06:35.38`	`jbevren`	`gotcha`
`06:35.42`	`MonMotha`	`usually, the only reason it runs linux is because it cost less than WinCE, QNX, or VXWorks`
`06:35.47`	`jbevren`	`so I know more than the average linux embedder? heh`
`06:35.55`	`MonMotha`	`probably...`
`06:36.11`	`MonMotha`	`anything that might hint at which one of adchips' parts is being used?`
`06:36.13`	`MonMotha`	`they make a few`
`06:36.17`	`MonMotha`	`though my korean sucks`
`06:36.38`	`jbevren`	`Hm`
`06:36.38`	`MonMotha`	`and their "english" site is still half in korean`
`06:36.56`	`jbevren`	`I suppose bflt doesnt include arch info`
`06:36.59`	`MonMotha`	`oh wait`
`06:36.59`	`MonMotha`	`EOS`
`06:37.03`	`jbevren`	`nod, eos`
`06:37.05`	`MonMotha`	`they have a chip called "EOS"`
`06:37.23`	`MonMotha`	`with an EFT/POS terminal as a dev environmetn`
`06:37.41`	`MonMotha`	`actually, it has an MMU, evidently`
`06:37.50`	`jbevren`	`hm`
`06:37.54`	`MonMotha`	`small, (128 entry, 4 way set associative TLB)`
`06:37.56`	`jbevren`	`the instruction set appears to be 16bit'ish`
`06:38.02`	`jbevren`	`but thats about all I can tell`
`06:38.11`	`jbevren`	`MonMotha: custom core or arm/mips?`
`06:38.12`	`MonMotha`	`it's supposedly 32 bit`
`06:38.17`	`MonMotha`	`custom as far as I can tell`
`06:38.21`	`MonMotha`	`they call it "EISC"`
`06:38.24`	`jbevren`	`hrm`
`06:38.30`	`MonMotha`	`presumably gcc supports it`
`06:38.33`	`jbevren`	`and there's .. yeah`
`06:38.39`	`MonMotha`	`http://www.adc.co.kr/product/chip_EOS.asp`
`06:38.43`	`MonMotha`	`hit features`
`06:38.45`	`MonMotha`	`it's mostly in english`
`06:39.46`	`MonMotha`	`they must have hung a USB host/otg controller off of it`
`06:40.00`	`jbevren`	`yeah`
`06:40.04`	`jbevren`	`what did I see in the kernel about it`
`06:40.05`	`jbevren`	`sec`
`06:40.43`	`MonMotha`	`http://www.ebdev.com/EOS/EOSuClinuxUserGuide_071204_EN.pdf may be useful`
`06:40.52`	`MonMotha`	`if you can read engrish well`
`06:41.07`	`jbevren`	`I worked tech support for a low-end hosting company :)`
`06:41.19`	`jbevren`	`making sense of non-english english isnt too difficutl`
`06:41.20`	`jbevren`	`normally.`
`06:41.36`	`MonMotha`	`heh, I deal with Korean and Japanese arcade hardwaer`
`06:41.40`	`MonMotha`	`I'm lucky to have engrish`
`06:41.47`	`MonMotha`	`usually the best I can do is babelfish`
`06:41.54`	`MonMotha`	`which I'm not even sure meets the bar for engrish`
`06:43.11`	`jbevren`	`linux sources are on their ftp, but they dont allow anon login`
`06:43.35`	`MonMotha`	`it's japanese/korean using english words`
`06:43.36`	`MonMotha`	`if they have an MMU, I'm curious why they went with uClinux and not the real deal`
`06:43.54`	`jbevren`	`buzzword victim?`
`06:43.55`	`*** join/#edev linac (n=lin@222.76.87.9)`
`06:43.57`	`jbevren`	`uclinux = embedded`
`06:44.00`	`jbevren`	`(to the untrained)`
`06:44.14`	`jbevren`	`doesnt uclinux have the ability to support mmu?`
`06:44.22`	`jbevren`	`although that doesnt explain the flat binaries`
`06:44.45`	`jbevren`	`they use egcs 2.91.66 apparently`
`06:45.20`	`MonMotha`	`yeah, freaking old compiler`
`06:45.31`	`MonMotha`	`you can't build linux 2.6 with that at all`
`06:45.39`	`MonMotha`	`http://www.ebdev.com/EOS/EOS_Databook_kor_wth20040202(China).pdf`
`06:45.42`	`MonMotha`	`datasheet for the chip`
`06:46.36`	`MonMotha`	`it is a rather minimum MMU`
`06:46.43`	`MonMotha`	`it may not be enough to run linux`
`06:46.51`	`MonMotha`	`I'm not sure what the minimum number of pages are for linux`
`06:47.08`	`jbevren`	`I read somewhere that it has multiple 32M banks`
`06:47.24`	`MonMotha`	`instruction set looks MIPSish`
`06:47.51`	`MonMotha`	`page 19 of that PDF`
`06:47.58`	`MonMotha`	`you get 8 512MB pages`
`06:48.49`	`MonMotha`	`well, I shoudl say that the instruction set looks like some whacked out combination of MIPS and x86 (if that were possible)`
`06:51.10`	`MonMotha`	`it doesn't look particularly fun to program`
`06:51.36`	`MonMotha`	`in fact, its only saving grace seems to be code density, which is a bit of a non-starter these days with flash (especially NAND, which is supports) being so darned cheap`
`06:51.54`	`jbevren`	`I"m not sold on it :)`
`06:52.58`	`MonMotha`	`nor am I`
`06:53.39`	`jbevren`	`functionally, very neat`
`06:53.50`	`jbevren`	`hackably, meh.`
`06:53.53`	`jbevren`	`I wont bother :)`
`06:54.25`	`MonMotha`	`it does seem to be a bit difficult to hack`
`06:54.32`	`MonMotha`	`if it was ARM/MIPS/PPC based, sure`
`06:54.45`	`jbevren`	`nod`
`06:55.17`	`jbevren`	`and since I'm between jobs, it'd have to be a dang attractive device :)`
`06:56.46`	`jbevren`	`I should attempt sleep whioe I'm tired`
`06:56.48`	`jbevren`	`see ya :)`
`07:05.16`	`MonMotha`	`FUCK YOU CADENCE LICENSING SERVER GARBAGE`
`07:05.21`	`MonMotha`	`it never works when you need it to`
`07:05.28`	`MonMotha`	`FlexLM is an utter piece of crap`
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`13:54.31`	`isenbeck`	`mornin' all`
`13:58.49`	`wmat`	`heh`
`14:18.58`	`wmat`	`oh, a guy in another channel was just telling me that he has a weekly sit down with some buddies to watch Golden Girls on DVD :/`
`14:19.13`	`wmat`	`plus, I meant to type Hey`
`14:23.05`	`isenbeck`	`wmat, that is pretty funny`
`14:36.14`	`chouimat`	`morning`
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`14:50.55`	`isenbeck`	`chouimat, mornin'`
`14:58.23`	`philv`	`Antivirus is the devil.`
`14:58.31`	`philv`	`:\|`
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`19:52.07`	`antics`	`any advice on RC snubbers on relays for reducing EMI?`
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