IRC log for #edev on 20070402

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14:36.47prpplaguehttp://www.cavemancrib.com
14:37.03chouimatprpplague http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/java-patches/2007-q2/msg00000.html
14:37.28prpplaguerumor has it they are going to do 13 episodes of a tv show about the cavemen from the geico commercials
14:37.39chouimat:)
14:39.17prpplaguechouimat: hmm, must not had enough coffee this morning, i don't get that patch
14:39.34prpplaguechouimat: is that an april fools day patch?
14:39.59chouimatprpplague it is
14:40.05prpplagueahh
14:42.25prpplaguehttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9836430793.html
14:43.38chouimatprpplague want something fun? http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/vilcus/
14:44.25prpplaguechouimat: work safe?
14:44.26agaffneyprpplague: heh, that's great
14:44.38chouimatprpplague definitly work safe
14:44.40prpplagueagaffney: the caveman item?
14:44.55agaffneyno, the tux
14:45.15agaffneychouimat: pfft, they had that on thinkgeek yesterday
14:45.41agaffneyhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/lebedev.shtml
14:45.42Croftonwhy is it that any time someone mentions something fun, everyone assumes it is not SFW
14:45.42chouimatagaffney: I know they link this website :)
14:46.00agaffneyah
14:46.05agaffneyhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/apparel/hats-ties/9352/
14:46.10agaffneythat's what I really want
14:46.21agaffneyit was an april fool's joke, but now they're really going to sell it :P
14:48.06chouimatagaffney: hehe
14:48.24prpplagueCrofton: hehe, mainly because our pal chouimat has a history of posting non-SFW urls
14:48.44chouimatprpplague me?? dude I'm offended by your comment
14:49.44prpplaguechouimat: hehe
14:50.03prpplaguechouimat: no offense intended, hehe,
14:50.50chouimatprpplague none taken ;)
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15:20.02prpplagueCrofton: just 10 more days of sub $1 for scox to go
15:20.05prpplague~quote scox
15:20.50prpplagueCrofton: i've been reading the nasdaq regulations, i don't think scox can get away with a reverse stock split
15:21.18prpplagueCrofton: if they do even a 2 to 1 reverse split that will drop them below the 10million market cap
15:21.24Croftonthis should be fun
15:21.52prpplaguecurrent market cap is 17million
15:25.14prpplagueCrofton: there are three standard for min values, 15, 5, and 1 million, not sure which one scox falls under
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15:44.10agaffneyanyone know if I can use any old usb serial adapter with a DB9->8-pin serial converter for connecting to the roomba?
15:44.28agaffneyI see stuff about making adapters for USB -> 8-pin DIN
15:44.35agaffneybut I'd rather take the cheaper shortcut :P
15:44.45agaffneyusing what I already have
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16:04.27prpplagueagaffney: should work
16:04.58prpplagueagaffney: you do run into some occasional issues with the usb->rs232 adapters as far as line control
16:05.21CosmicPenguinits a crime how serial ports have disappeared from desktop systems as of late
16:06.38agaffneyI've got a DB9 serial port, but it's already occupied :P
16:08.56agaffneyhmm, it appears that the roomba's serial port isn't your typical serial port
16:09.08agaffneyit looks like it might use more than a few pins for data
16:18.18chouimatCosmicPenguin: true
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17:02.34MonMothaCosmicPenguin: I'm very glad that about 3 years ago, I nabbed a "2 port" serial PCI card from compusa for ~$30
17:02.51MonMothaof course, it was actuall a quad UART, and even had pads on the board for level shifters, and room for headers
17:03.00MonMothasuffice to say, it is now a quad serial PCI card :)
17:20.31CosmicPenguinI have a quad serial PCI card
17:20.36CosmicPenguinit is very nice
17:21.16MonMothayes, they are extremely handy
17:21.31MonMothamakes it difficult to run out of serial ports
17:21.36MonMothaespecially given that my mobo has 2 unto itself
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19:11.58CosmicPenguinblootbot is cool, but the learning curve is steeep
19:12.21chouimathi CosmicPenguin
19:13.04CosmicPenguinhi
19:13.53chouimatthis is getting so insane ...
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20:15.32CosmicPenguin~quote amd
20:15.48CosmicPenguinwhatever broken ass module ubuntu loads is wayyy behind
20:30.43CosmicPenguinblootbot SVN rocks
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21:25.11T0mWprpplague: what's up?
21:25.15prpplagueT0mW: ssdd
21:25.21prpplagueT0mW: working like a mad man
21:25.22T0mWh!
21:25.23T0mWha!
21:25.39T0mWprpplague: I've been typing so much my fingers are getting sore.
21:25.44prpplagueT0mW: hehe
21:25.57prpplagueT0mW: hey, whats a good fix 3.3v ldo for around 150mA
21:25.59prpplagueT0mW: ?
21:26.06T0mWprpplague: just about finished with the OE distro for the zipit
21:26.20T0mWprpplague: how small do you need it?
21:26.29MonMothaprpplague: line/load regulation specs?  package preference?
21:26.32T0mWprpplague: what is the input voltage?
21:27.00T0mWMonMotha: heh, details, details, details
21:27.02MonMothathat, too
21:27.03prpplagueinput is regulated 5v and what i need is cheap, package pref isn't really a concern
21:27.33T0mWyou should be able to find an SMD three terminal regulator
21:28.00T0mWprpplague: um, wait one
21:28.03MonMothaON has this part I'm a fan of...
21:28.05prpplagueyea, was just curious if knew a good one
21:28.42MonMothaNCP582
21:28.50MonMothahttp://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NCP582
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21:29.11MonMothaSC88-AB, which is hand solderable without much difficulty, small, good regulation, 150mA
21:29.33T0mWprpplague: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=353008&Row=85173&Site=US
21:29.59prpplagueahh good price
21:30.02T0mWprpplague: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Texas%20Instruments/Web%20data/TPS793(01,18,%2025,%2028,%20285,%2030,%2033,%20475).pdf
21:30.12T0mWprpplague: small size, 200ma output
21:30.13MonMothaprpplague: the NCP582 is also cheap, yeah.  25c in quantity
21:31.09prpplaguei like the mic5219, problem is that it's 500mA
21:31.26MonMothayou can always spec it higher
21:31.32MonMothajust ups the price and package size
21:31.32T0mWprpplague: yeah, larger package too
21:31.45prpplagueT0mW: size not really a concern though
21:32.04prpplaguemain reason i was looking at the mic5219 was we use it in another product as well
21:32.22prpplaguewe try to reuse existing stocked parts if we can
21:32.23T0mWprpplague: micrel does make some nice stuff though.  Problem with TPS79xxx series is that they need a large cap at the output (typically 2uf)
21:32.41T0mWotherwise, the suckers will oscillate!
21:32.43prpplagueT0mW: yea, the mic5219 does as well
21:32.50prpplague2.2uF tant
21:33.02MonMothaT0mW: 2uF?
21:33.09MonMothaNCP582 recommends like a .1uF
21:33.11T0mWwell, not oscillate,but it rocks back and forth
21:34.00prpplaguei did run across something interesting today
21:34.23prpplaguethis ref schematic used a n-channel fet to do a 3.3v to 5v level shifting
21:34.25MonMothahum, 0.47uF I guess, maybe it was one of the LP series that had the really low output cap requirement
21:37.43prpplagueT0mW: you ever heard of anyone using a n-channel fet to do leveling shifting for rs-232 ttl?
21:37.52MonMothaprpplague: I've heard of it
21:38.40T0mWprpplague: pretty much if you can switch between +5 and gnd, rS232 will accept that
21:38.49T0mWit is iffy though
21:38.51MonMothait doesn't work overly well, but for short runs over decent cable it is usually fine
21:38.56T0mWyeah
21:39.18T0mWprpplague: I would only try that at home and not design it into a product
21:39.57MonMothaI've seen some rather crazy RS-232 designs.  They usually work OK, but only when things are "ideal"
21:40.07T0mWprpplague: with two FETS and a positive and negative supply, you can forgoe the typical driver chip
21:40.29MonMothaT0mW: I've also seen people use cheap op-amps whe a negative supply is available
21:40.49T0mWcentericq runs on the zipit, but the 40col screen is not wide enough for the config menu
21:42.34prpplaguewell its only a couple of inches between a 5v mpu and 3.3v peripheral, and its only running at 9600baud
21:43.03MonMothaprpplague: well, if there's no actual RS-232 levels involved (you're just translating logic highs), that works rather well, actually
21:43.04prpplagueT0mW: i'm mainly doing 3.3v to 5v level shifting
21:43.17prpplagueMonMotha: yea, no true rs-232 levels
21:43.33prpplaguestrictly ttl
21:43.35T0mWserial data from a uart via TTL levels works fine
21:43.45MonMothahow are they doing this exactly?  the classic approach (pull up to the desired voltage and an n-fet) usually inverts the data
21:44.00T0mWMonMotha: yeah, but reciever re-inverts
21:44.15MonMothaoh, the RX is expecting RS-232 style (inverted) data?
21:44.20T0mWyup
21:44.31MonMothaok, that works, then
21:44.38MonMothaI was thinking it was a TTL RX input, as well
21:44.46T0mWrxdata == !!txdata
21:44.48T0mWheh
21:44.50prpplaguehehe
21:45.24MonMothawell, the UART inputs on most uCs are TTL/CMOS level, true logic
21:45.25prpplaguewell for the tx line they use the n-fet, but for the rx line they are just using a 10k ohm resistor
21:45.27T0mWI'm HUNGRY!
21:45.42MonMothaprpplague: I've done that before.  You just let the input protection diodes clamp it
21:46.26MonMothaheck, I've done that with 120VAC signals :)
21:46.37prpplaguei was just curious if there was a more robust way to do the 3.3v to 5v ttl uart stuff that was cheap as well
21:46.41MonMothacouple of 10Mohm resistors and let the protection diodes form a clamp
21:47.16MonMothaprpplague: if you don't want the inversion and the line is unidirectional, there are plenty of little single open-drain buffers in 5-lead SOT-23
21:47.43MonMothapower it with the 3.3V side, pull-up to 5V on the output (use a VHC or VHCT series)
21:47.46prpplagueMonMotha: yea, don't need the inversion, just 0 and 5v or 0 and 3.3v
21:48.11prpplagueMonMotha: yea, i had thought about just using a 74ahct125
21:48.21MonMothasize the pull-up based on signal switching rates.  For high speed signals (or if you just want a fast edge), use a fairly strong pull-up, like 1k
21:48.36MonMothafor slow edges, you can use a bigger one to reduce power consumption and EMI
21:50.06MonMothahttps://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=M74VHC1GT126DT1G
21:50.07prpplagueMonMotha: hmm
21:50.09MonMothasomething like that
21:50.21MonMothathough that's a push-pull output
21:50.30prpplagueMonMotha: probably have to run it by the EE tomorrow anyway, i'll see what they want to use
21:51.03prpplaguethanks for the info guys
21:57.58prpplaguedavidc__work: ping
21:58.36davidc__workyo
22:02.35prpplaguedavidc__work: don't forget you have to identify to respond to /msgs
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22:17.40idiotT0mW: test
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22:21.51T0mWtest
22:22.07idiotidiot: T0mW tested
22:25.25MonMothaChecklist protocol initiated.
22:25.39MonMothaUSDA Selected.
22:25.39MonMothaFDIC Approved.
22:25.39MonMothaChecklist completed.  SOB.
22:27.03MonMotha(please, PLEASE, tell me somebody gets that...)
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22:31.48idiotMonMotha: uh, no
22:32.32T0mWMonMotha: sorry, I was busy being an idiot
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22:51.29T0mWtest
22:51.58agaffneyfail
22:52.03T0mWheh
22:52.20T0mWI'm just messing with irssi on a Zipit
22:52.48T0mWtrying to get autojoin to work
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22:59.34T0mWah
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