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| 03:47.56 | LyosNorezel | anyone around? |
| 03:50.26 | MonMotha | yes |
| 03:50.50 | LyosNorezel | do you know where I can find a MIPS R3000A disassembler? |
| 03:51.49 | MonMotha | sure, GNU binutils |
| 03:52.49 | LyosNorezel | hmmm... k... I will check on that... |
| 03:52.50 | MonMotha | objdump has a disassembler function |
| 03:52.53 | MonMotha | it works reasonably well |
| 03:52.53 | LyosNorezel | thanks |
| 03:52.56 | ds3 | you guys the folks doing the JuiceBox stuff? |
| 03:53.05 | MonMotha | ds3: some people did, a while ago |
| 03:53.34 | ds3 | I see. |
| 03:54.16 | LyosNorezel | sweet... binutils is already installed on my system |
| 03:54.31 | MonMotha | well, you'll need a MIPS cross build |
| 03:54.40 | MonMotha | that is, a binutils which targets MIPS but operates on your system |
| 03:54.45 | LyosNorezel | oh |
| 03:54.49 | MonMotha | now, if you happen to be on a MIPS system, you're good |
| 03:54.51 | LyosNorezel | crap |
| 03:54.56 | MonMotha | it's fairly easy to cross-build binutils, though |
| 03:54.59 | MonMotha | so just build it yourself |
| 03:55.10 | MonMotha | er, build a cross binutils, that is |
| 03:56.55 | LyosNorezel | ok |
| 03:57.14 | LyosNorezel | any idea what flags I'll need to set? |
| 03:57.38 | LyosNorezel | and do I need to uninstall the current version? |
| 03:57.41 | MonMotha | NO |
| 03:57.46 | MonMotha | do not uninstall your current one |
| 03:57.53 | MonMotha | you'll be unable to build native apps then |
| 03:58.04 | LyosNorezel | ok |
| 03:58.06 | MonMotha | a cross target build is completely separate from your native build |
| 03:58.11 | LyosNorezel | ok |
| 03:58.14 | MonMotha | just build it with --target=mips or whatever is appropriate |
| 03:58.22 | LyosNorezel | ah |
| 04:01.03 | LyosNorezel | how different is MIPS assembly vs x86 assembly? |
| 04:01.17 | ds3 | very |
| 04:01.26 | ds3 | MIPS has no explicit stack register |
| 04:02.33 | ds3 | SWPLinux: know what time you will be done tomorrow? |
| 04:02.54 | MonMotha | oh, there's a pretty much always used register for the stack pointer |
| 04:03.06 | LyosNorezel | umph |
| 04:03.08 | MonMotha | so much so that the mnemonic for it is sp |
| 04:03.17 | LyosNorezel | umph |
| 04:03.19 | MonMotha | I don't even remember what number it is, 23 comes to mind |
| 04:03.25 | MonMotha | now, there are no hardware push/pop instruction |
| 04:03.28 | ds3 | bah |
| 04:03.32 | ds3 | n/m |
| 04:03.37 | MonMotha | you do a store/decrement or a load/increment |
| 04:03.53 | ds3 | but not enforced by the HW |
| 04:03.57 | MonMotha | that's the big thing is that instructions other than load/store acn only reference registers (it's a rather RISC clean arch) |
| 04:04.05 | MonMotha | no, it's not enforced byt heh ardware |
| 04:04.12 | ds3 | MIPS also has a register that returns a 0 |
| 04:04.21 | MonMotha | about the only register uses absolutely enforced by hardware are the 0 register and the ra register |
| 04:05.03 | LyosNorezel | umph... so basically my old 386/486/586 asm knowledge is useless |
| 04:05.18 | ds3 | not completely |
| 04:05.35 | MonMotha | not at all, really |
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| 04:05.50 | LyosNorezel | oh? |
| 04:05.51 | MonMotha | the basic loop constructs still mostly work (though there's no hardware repeat), for example |
| 04:06.03 | MonMotha | conditionals are pretty much the same |
| 04:06.16 | ds3 | does the MIPS platform let you do 2 things at once like ARM? |
| 04:06.19 | MonMotha | the C calling convention is a little different, but easy to adapt to |
| 04:06.26 | MonMotha | 2 things at once? |
| 04:06.31 | MonMotha | like explicit multiple issue? |
| 04:06.37 | ds3 | no |
| 04:06.49 | MonMotha | predicated instructions? |
| 04:06.55 | LyosNorezel | MonMotha: I ne'er learned C/C++ |
| 04:06.57 | ds3 | ARM has this funny multiple parameter that can do things conditional and logic at once |
| 04:07.11 | MonMotha | let me grab my ARM ref card... |
| 04:07.49 | MonMotha | well, you can make the instruction itself depend on a condition |
| 04:07.55 | MonMotha | that's the predicate thing |
| 04:08.11 | ds3 | ah, not god with the nomenclature |
| 04:08.15 | ds3 | not good |
| 04:08.20 | MonMotha | I guess ARM calls them conditions, yeah |
| 04:08.35 | MonMotha | that's not really doing two things at once so much as not having to use a branch for the conditionals |
| 04:08.55 | ds3 | yes but you can add + branch |
| 04:09.01 | MonMotha | oh, those |
| 04:09.02 | ds3 | in other systems, that's 2 instructions |
| 04:09.08 | MonMotha | yeah, I don't think MIPS does that |
| 04:09.11 | MonMotha | not that I remember anyway |
| 04:09.34 | ds3 | actually for a quick MIPS tool chain, grab the WRT54 stuff |
| 04:10.01 | MonMotha | actually, ARM lets you do that? |
| 04:10.17 | ds3 | IIRC, yes |
| 04:10.54 | MonMotha | is it handled as a condition on the standard add instruction or a different mnemonic? |
| 04:11.03 | MonMotha | also, it is on the new ARMs? I only know up through about ARMv4 |
| 04:11.04 | ds3 | different I think |
| 04:11.37 | ds3 | might be, think it is on the Zaurus (ARM9 stuff) |
| 04:12.21 | ds3 | actually that's SA |
| 04:12.40 | MonMotha | well, all the old Zauraii were SA, whcih is v4 |
| 04:15.11 | ds3 | according to this doc "All ARM instructions are conditional, i.e. they can all be modified by a suffix indicating under what conditions the instructions should be executed." |
| 04:15.35 | MonMotha | yes |
| 04:15.41 | MonMotha | but that's different than "add and branch" |
| 04:15.51 | MonMotha | I know I've seen architectures that allow that, I just don't remember which ones :) |
| 04:15.54 | ds3 | *nod* |
| 04:16.09 | MonMotha | I've worked on so many archs at this point that I always have to refresh my memory when changing to a new project |
| 04:16.18 | ds3 | yes |
| 04:16.21 | ds3 | maybe it is PPC ;) |
| 04:21.47 | MonMotha | anyway, MIPS does not have instructions of that nature that I'm aware of |
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| 08:28.12 | reppel | hi, is mklibs actually working for you in buildroot? |
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| 13:51.23 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 13:53.04 | wmat | prpplague: that should be "...lack of documentation for <everything>" |
| 13:55.23 | prpplague | wmat: hehe |
| 13:55.37 | prpplague | wmat: well alot of things have been around long enough to have documentation |
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| 14:17.10 | wmat | prpplague: i agree, but unfortunately, maturity does not necessarily translate directly into useful documentation |
| 14:20.07 | chouimat | morning |
| 14:20.40 | wmat | prpplague: i've begun soliciting embedded hackers for interviews, so far, I've got 4 yesses |
| 14:20.45 | wmat | for the new wiki, that is |
| 14:21.07 | prpplague | interviews? |
| 14:21.48 | wmat | yes, in an effort to build out new content on the wiki, one of the ideas is to interview prominent embedded linux hackers and create a "who's who" of sorts on the wiki |
| 14:22.39 | prpplague | wmat: not sure i understand that |
| 14:23.01 | wmat | prpplague: it's an effort in "building community" |
| 14:23.19 | prpplague | hmm |
| 14:23.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: well i got the kinks worked out of the usb interface |
| 14:23.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: seeing the usb dongle and i can get it to do a scan and find the other device |
| 14:23.53 | wmat | prpplague: similar to http://armlinux.simtec.co.uk/whoswho.html |
| 14:24.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just don't know what to do now |
| 14:24.07 | wmat | prpplague: but more comprehensive |
| 14:25.08 | wmat | prpplague: the thought is that by fostering "community" the technical content will improve, as community members will be more inclined to contribute |
| 14:25.19 | prpplague | wmat: ok, so the question is..... does the information on that page really help? |
| 14:25.57 | prpplague | wmat: i seriously doubt dwmw2, rmk or even fluff are interested in helping newbies on the wiki pages |
| 14:26.08 | prpplague | wmat: they barely tolerate people like me |
| 14:26.35 | wmat | prpplague: it's not about helping newbies, it's about publishing hard, technical content eventually |
| 14:26.49 | prpplague | hmm |
| 14:27.19 | wmat | prpplague: if the majority of embedded linux hackers are wiki participants, they'll be more likely to contribute original research, test results, etc. |
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| 14:28.02 | prpplague | wmat: ahh |
| 14:28.16 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I have a framebuffer driver youc an write... :) |
| 14:28.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: no thank you, fb makes my head hurt |
| 14:29.09 | CosmicPenguin | Sorry - thought you were looking for things to do |
| 14:29.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: after 7 years of doing ARM dev, i'm just now able to bring up lcd's with a minimal amount of tylenol usage |
| 14:29.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 14:29.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i meant i need to figure out how to bring up the rfcomm serial ports next for the bt stuff |
| 14:30.07 | wmat | prpplague: you'll be targetted for an interview as well ;) |
| 14:30.39 | prpplague | wmat: are you going to play the "good cop" or "bad cop" ? |
| 14:30.43 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: its just serial? |
| 14:30.58 | wmat | prpplague: bad cop, good cop is no fun |
| 14:31.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 14:31.59 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: usb attached? |
| 14:32.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 14:32.37 | CosmicPenguin | I guess i don't understand where the problem is |
| 14:33.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: problem is what commands to use to bring up the tty interface |
| 14:35.55 | chouimat | wmat: you talk about the game or the movie "Bon Cop Bad Cop" ? ( http://imdb.com/title/tt0479647/ ) |
| 14:37.02 | wmat | chouimat: no, prpplague was just making a joke about interviewing |
| 14:37.23 | chouimat | ok :) |
| 14:38.33 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: just use rfcomm |
| 14:38.42 | wmat | chouimat: i've been meaning to see that movie though ;) |
| 14:39.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, i assumed as much, but instructions are hard to find, testing now |
| 14:40.03 | CosmicPenguin | hcitool scan <--- will find the device |
| 14:40.23 | CosmicPenguin | rfcomm connect rfcomm0 <address> <channel> |
| 14:40.42 | CosmicPenguin | and /dev/rfcomm0 is your serial device |
| 14:42.28 | prpplague | hmm, now see, why couldn't someone write that down? |
| 14:43.04 | prpplague | hmm, rfcomm doesn't have a background operation? |
| 14:44.09 | chouimat | wmat: me too ... my brother saw it and it's really good |
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| 14:59.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lovely |
| 14:59.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: works like a champ |
| 14:59.28 | CosmicPenguin | see, its not so complicated after all... :) |
| 15:01.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, the lack of information was what made it complicated. i'll start a elinux wiki page |
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| 16:08.35 | T0mW | geez, a 357MPH train |
| 16:12.53 | chouimat | T0mW: I know it's cool :) |
| 16:13.25 | T0mW | chouimat: can you imagine how many people will die if that thing goes ballistic and leaves the track? |
| 16:14.07 | chouimat | T0mW: normally they only go around 350 km/h and they use special tracks too |
| 16:14.14 | CosmicPenguin | thats a good engineer - expect the worse |
| 16:14.19 | T0mW | lol |
| 16:14.36 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: yeah, well, when you design for life-safety... |
| 16:18.18 | chouimat | T0mW: the things is the train systems in Europe is a few order of magnitude better than the one in north america |
| 16:19.51 | T0mW | chouimat: oh, definately. Nobody takes the train for any serious travel. I once contacted the railroad to see about traveling to Alabama (about 1100 miles by car). I was told that it would take 18 hours to do TO Alabama and 28+ hours for the return leg. |
| 16:20.11 | T0mW | s/do/ |
| 16:20.28 | T0mW | doh s/do/go |
| 16:20.31 | chouimat | wow ... |
| 16:21.03 | T0mW | It takes about 16 hours to drive to Montgomery, AL by car |
| 16:21.28 | chouimat | ouch |
| 16:23.30 | T0mW | chouimat: what is canadian rail like? I would imagine with the sparse population in most areas that rail is more popular? |
| 16:25.02 | chouimat | T0mW:it's fairly good Ottawa to my father place (~500km) is about 5.5 hours in car if I take the bus ottawa - montreal: 2h30 minutes, wait 35 minutes, montreal - quebec city: 3 hours, wait 25 minutes (if I'm scheduled right for the last bus), last 100km nearly 2h30 ... stop in every place on the way :( |
| 16:26.27 | T0mW | chouimat: that is what they told me when they explained the addition hours for the return trip: they would be stopping over to add frieght cars to the train. |
| 16:27.42 | T0mW | chouimat: I would like to get something like a railpass for 30days, take the time off and just bum around the country by rail though. |
| 16:28.21 | chouimat | T0mW: the train I only stop in Quebec City and it's around 6 hours ... I have to wait 1 hours in montreal (or more depending on the option I took) because the only train to go in Eastern Quebec (and estern canada) get there around midnight so it's easier to call and have someone pick me up in Quebec City ... it's only 100 km :) |
| 16:28.38 | T0mW | heh |
| 16:32.02 | T0mW | Hmmm, North American RailPass, restritions: "Reservations are required on all segments of travel" |
| 16:34.00 | chouimat|lunch | T0mW: I know :) |
| 16:43.14 | CosmicPenguin | trains are fun |
| 16:48.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: btw, what did you mean yesterday when you were surprised that "they had not contacted OLPC" ? |
| 17:08.07 | CosmicPenguin | what part was confusing?> |
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| 17:35.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: who is they and why would they contact OLPC? |
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| 17:59.21 | T0mW | anyone know why I would need the NPTL for a system built for a 2.4 kernel? |
| 17:59.44 | T0mW | As far as that goes, WTF is NPTL? |
| 18:02.55 | CosmicPenguin | if sjhill was here, he would slap you silly |
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| 18:12.53 | chouimat | T0mW: threads stuff |
| 18:13.08 | T0mW | I know |
| 18:13.58 | T0mW | I just wish that I could get a 2.6 kernel running on the zipit instead of 2.4 and get rid of this gcc-3.4 restriction. |
| 18:58.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey, what size is your dbus libs on your desktop? |
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| 18:59.50 | CosmicPenguin | 227648 2007-03-08 06:58 /usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3.2.0 |
| 19:00.09 | prpplague | hmm |
| 19:01.42 | chouimat | 183312 Mar 21 16:52 /usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3.2.0 |
| 19:05.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was able to connect to my bluetooth device via rfcomm without the use of a PIN, would that imply that the security isn't active on the device? |
| 19:05.23 | CosmicPenguin | what device? |
| 19:05.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: something similiar to this - http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=148 |
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| 22:19.04 | T0mW | jbevren: hey, who made you sysop? |
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| 23:08.23 | jbevren | prpplague made me sysop |
| 23:09.03 | wmat | jbevren: now's your opportunity to ban him ;) |
| 23:12.21 | davidc__ | prpplague, yeah - if you can connect without a pin, means security is probably not active |
| 23:14.33 | jbevren | lol ban tom for questioning my authority? |
| 23:14.54 | jbevren | I'm too nice to do that |
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