| 01:15.08 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp073.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 01:26.41 | *** join/#edev pierrelux (n=pierre-l@144-125.sh.cgocable.ca) |
| 03:40.12 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@84-74-134-243.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 03:58.08 | *** part/#edev pierrelux (n=pierre-l@144-125.sh.cgocable.ca) |
| 04:57.39 | *** join/#edev chouimat|nap (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 05:40.06 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.141.74) |
| 07:06.21 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@220.94.76.222.broad.fz.fj.dynamic.163data.com.cn) |
| 11:14.10 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp230.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 11:14.49 | *** join/#edev baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 11:28.13 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 11:33.11 | *** join/#edev dijenerate_ (n=dijenera@72.22.152.124) |
| 11:50.21 | *** join/#edev dijenerate_ (n=dijenera@216.110.100.212) |
| 11:50.29 | *** join/#edev baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 12:11.49 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.248) |
| 12:11.49 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 12:38.55 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 12:39.21 | T0mW | good morning |
| 12:39.29 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@216.110.100.95) |
| 12:46.27 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@hc6521464.dhcp.vt.edu) |
| 13:04.16 | GPSFan | T0mW: morning |
| 13:04.25 | T0mW | hey |
| 13:04.51 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@230.112.56.59.broad.fz.fj.dynamic.163data.com.cn) |
| 13:05.07 | GPSFan | I read that you did some work with KA9Q NOS. I knew Phill when I lived in San Diego... |
| 13:05.41 | T0mW | GPSFan: LOL! I had no freakin' clue what I was doing with networking in those days |
| 13:05.56 | T0mW | the routing table had me absolutely stumped! |
| 13:05.57 | GPSFan | neither did anybody !! |
| 13:06.42 | GPSFan | those were the days when open source first showed a glimmer of hope. |
| 13:06.50 | T0mW | It took me 4 months before I got the machine to get out of my local area and into the adjacent subnet. And, I didn't know how I did it. |
| 13:07.29 | T0mW | Then, a few months later, the local phone company offered internet dialup and I jumped at it. |
| 13:07.46 | T0mW | IIRC, that was 1992? |
| 13:07.56 | GPSFan | I had a few dos boxen hooked up with some primitive Proxim wireless gear with NOS as a router/bridge to my wired network. |
| 13:08.53 | T0mW | heh, yeah, NOS was cool, first time I hooked a radio up to a computer. then I got into a phase where I reverse engineered a TNC and started building a few of my own. |
| 13:09.32 | T0mW | now I'm back to not knowing wtf I'm doing. |
| 13:10.18 | T0mW | I've been trying to put together a monster box: Pentium4 64bit dual core w/ 5 SATA-2 raid5 |
| 13:10.22 | GPSFan | heh. I had one of the 56kbit modems on 432. it worked ok on the bench, but had lotsa problems over a few mile path. |
| 13:10.54 | T0mW | now it looks like I purchase the wrong freakin DDR2 ram! This sh!t comes in 1.8v and 1.95v |
| 13:11.13 | GPSFan | ;>( |
| 13:11.46 | T0mW | GPSFan: did some sat work for a while, that was interesting with doppler shift + calc'ing transponder offset. |
| 13:12.52 | T0mW | yeah, then I discovered IRC and it has been downhill ever since |
| 13:13.11 | GPSFan | lol.. |
| 13:14.17 | T0mW | I don't have a working radio in the house. The TS-850 needs to go into the shop, I let it sit for three years, then fired it up and have intermmittant audio on TX. |
| 13:14.58 | T0mW | GPSFan: you know what is funny. All that AX-25 experience just may pay off commercially. |
| 13:15.00 | GPSFan | sounds like a diryt pot, try some RS tuner cleaner. |
| 13:15.44 | T0mW | GPSFan: this board I am designing is going into a commercial packet radio box. |
| 13:16.02 | T0mW | so, I've been looking at baycom again |
| 13:16.05 | T0mW | heh |
| 13:16.06 | GPSFan | cool, |
| 13:16.29 | GPSFan | look at soundmodem I need to try and compile it for hte Zipit. |
| 13:16.46 | GPSFan | http://www.baycom.org/~tom/ham/soundmodem/ |
| 13:18.04 | T0mW | I could see the commercial aspect of packet radio back 15 years ago but the company I was working for just was in love with their dual-tone setup. Now, commercial packet radio is a real hot seller in the NorthEast security market. |
| 13:18.44 | T0mW | GPSFan: I need to figure out why OE is not building the rootfs. |
| 13:19.59 | T0mW | GPSFan: it builds everything, then stops when generating the rootfs image. Somehow, it is not detecting the need for the fakeroot-native and ipkg-native utils. If I manually tell OE to build those two packages, then it builds the rootfs fine. |
| 13:20.07 | T0mW | they changed something, again. |
| 13:20.30 | GPSFan | OE==big learning curve. |
| 13:20.49 | T0mW | from my experience, you have to stay on top of this OE stuff every week. Leave it alone for a month and you will get lost again. |
| 13:21.17 | GPSFan | so far I've not had the guts/time to mess around with OE. |
| 13:21.25 | T0mW | GPSFan: well, yeah, there is a mental shift you have to do if you are a makefile / buildroot type of guy. |
| 13:22.00 | T0mW | GPSFan: it is pretty darned powerfull. What is a PITA is that their documentation sux. |
| 13:22.15 | GPSFan | not that I really like the makefile mire that is buildroot/busybox/uclibc. but the shift is wuite dramatic. |
| 13:22.17 | T0mW | GPSFan: you pretty much have to get into the community to get answers. |
| 13:23.19 | GPSFan | cul, suns up and gotta get going... ;>) |
| 13:23.27 | T0mW | GPSFan: one of the big holes in OE is that of building new software. There reeally isn't any clear cut means of starting a new package. |
| 13:23.44 | T0mW | s/package/package from scratch |
| 13:24.03 | T0mW | not like it would be for buildroot |
| 13:24.07 | GPSFan | yeah, you were going to post your zipit-OE stuff sometime. |
| 13:24.55 | T0mW | GPSFan: well, I can package up what I have this morning. It should be pretty straight-forward to install via the makefile I put togehter. |
| 13:25.27 | T0mW | I need to do that anyway and I don't feel like doing anything productive today |
| 13:25.57 | GPSFan | T0mW: great. sounds like a good way to end up the week on a upbeat note ;>) |
| 13:25.59 | T0mW | too much coding / debugging these past few weeks. /me needs some QUALITY time off with some loose women |
| 13:26.08 | GPSFan | ;>)) |
| 13:26.15 | T0mW | one will do |
| 13:26.17 | T0mW | heh |
| 13:28.05 | T0mW | back |
| 13:29.01 | T0mW | I think that I have it all setup on the website now, but it is not yet published. I just have to go over the tarballs and see that they match what I have in the oe build dir. |
| 13:46.05 | *** join/#edev FireEgl (i=FireEgl@Sebastian.Atlantica.US.TO) |
| 13:47.06 | T0mW | GPSFan: http://www.openzipit.org/Development/OpenZipit/files/OpenEmbedded/Makefile |
| 13:47.54 | T0mW | GPSFan: that will pull in about 260Meg of stuff off the web, so I hope you have a fast internet connection? |
| 14:01.31 | *** join/#edev Ifaistos (n=stelios@ipa226.211.tellas.gr) |
| 14:40.44 | *** join/#edev mallum (n=mallum@host81-129-132-253.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:40.52 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (i=nobody@nat/amd/x-351ea69f44a57c95) |
| 14:40.52 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 14:43.43 | GPSFan | T0mW: thanks, I'll look at it later today. I do have a reasonably fast connection. |
| 14:44.06 | T0mW | GPSFan: time to give it good workout then |
| 14:47.39 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@adsl-210-140-51.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:48.11 | CosmicPenguin | There is a 16G compact flash at J&R Music World for 159 dollars |
| 14:48.26 | CosmicPenguin | My friends, the era of the embedded developer is over |
| 14:48.31 | CosmicPenguin | please collect your coats and move to the exit |
| 14:52.46 | GPSFan | T0mW: there are a bunch of prerequisits that are needed to allow that Makefile to work. Starting from a fresh Ubuntu fiesty install, first problem is that there is no svn. I'll make a list of stuff I find. |
| 14:54.14 | T0mW | GPSFan: don't bother, it will vary with distro. The default development software load for Mandriva (my system) will differ from yours. The pre-requisites will probably change as OE keeps evolving |
| 14:54.16 | wmat | CosmicPenguin: over? it's getting bigger |
| 14:54.50 | wmat | just because you can fit a full distro on a CF card in a small device doesn't mean it's a good idea |
| 14:55.35 | CosmicPenguin | Thats not what I said |
| 14:55.48 | GPSFan | T0mW: well if I'm going to build this I need to make that list anyway so it might be useful to someone else. |
| 14:56.30 | wmat | CosmicPenguin: i'm assuming that's what you meant, given the ref. to a 16G CF card |
| 14:57.16 | CosmicPenguin | wmat: my point was, it reduces the incentive to optimize for space |
| 14:58.29 | CosmicPenguin | What we do is hardly embedded in the first place, let alone trying to explain to customers why you are charging them several hundred thousand dollars to sqeeze a filesystem into 32Mb |
| 14:58.42 | CosmicPenguin | on a 16G card |
| 14:59.16 | wmat | sure, the def. of embedded is a contentious subject for some |
| 15:02.41 | wmat | i guess dev for mobile devices and such isn't really embedded in nature anymore |
| 15:03.27 | wmat | however, lots of space typically gets used up pretty quickly |
| 15:04.02 | CosmicPenguin | thats known as a flaw |
| 15:09.05 | Crofton | memory/flash size still takes power |
| 15:09.40 | CosmicPenguin | The CF will still draw the same power, I believe |
| 15:09.58 | Crofton | but half the lfash would use less power |
| 15:11.25 | CosmicPenguin | Interesting question - does a bigger CF draw more power? |
| 15:11.25 | CosmicPenguin | somebody do a field test! |
| 15:50.15 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (i=nobody@nat/amd/x-54d1031a48244c6e) |
| 15:50.17 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.16 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_ (n=g1powerm@adsl-18-68-50.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:38.34 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-31-110.westend.de) |
| 17:15.18 | *** join/#edev ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 17:15.18 | *** mode/#edev [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 17:26.25 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-31-110.westend.de) |
| 17:39.09 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 17:39.20 | T0mW | GPSFan: they broke more sh!t in OE |
| 17:40.00 | CosmicPenguin | this is news/ |
| 17:40.02 | CosmicPenguin | ? |
| 17:40.14 | T0mW | GPSFan: the native zipit-programmer package no longer builds as it did two weeks ago |
| 17:40.47 | T0mW | GPSFan: somebody committed bad changes to xfce xfwm4 and OE spews errors |
| 17:45.24 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-31-110.westend.de) |
| 17:55.52 | GPSFan | T0mW: great..... quick question: why do you have to edit local.conf I thought OE was smarter than that. |
| 18:13.50 | *** join/#edev stelios_ (n=stelios@ipa226.211.tellas.gr) |
| 18:27.12 | T0mW | GPSFan: you shouldn't have to change anything in the local.conf, the makefile should have customized it for your subdir. |
| 18:27.19 | T0mW | GPSFan: what did you have to change? |
| 18:31.36 | GPSFan | T0mW: local.conf has hard coded paths to /home/tom/oezipit/sippitbbfiles/*/*.bb dtc. |
| 18:32.15 | GPSFan | I haven't changed anything yet, I just got back from lunch. |
| 18:33.07 | T0mW | GPSFan: will correct that. Koen has answered my email about the do_rootfs prob and tells me to upgrade my bitbake to 1.8.2, that will affect what you are doing. I'll work at that now and let you know when a new makefile is available. |
| 18:33.31 | T0mW | GPSFan: at least, you can slog your way through what you have an it will work, with some tweaks. |
| 18:33.57 | GPSFan | T0mW: ok, thanks. got lost of other stuff going on. I just thought I'd do a quick make and see what happened. |
| 18:34.24 | GPSFan | s/lost/lots ;>) |
| 18:34.33 | T0mW | IOW, when it fails the do_rootfs "bitbake -c rebuild fakeroot-native" "bitbake -c rebuild ipkg-native" then run "bitbake bootstrap-image" again. |
| 18:35.11 | T0mW | GPSFan: finally getting your toes into the deep-water, eh? |
| 18:36.22 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-31-110.westend.de) |
| 18:36.27 | GPSFan | T0mW: ah, that's so obvious ;>( |
| 18:50.05 | T0mW | GPSFan: that must be a small antenna. sort of like building a ship in a bottle type of job. |
| 18:50.41 | T0mW | GPSFan: you have an swr meter for that range, heh? |
| 18:53.44 | GPSFan | http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm http://pe2er.nl/wifiswr/index.htm |
| 18:54.47 | GPSFan | T0mW: http://www.paonia.com/~kenm/Pix/?dir=images/Antennas |
| 18:56.29 | T0mW | looks like something you would build from Jessop's VHF/UHF Manual |
| 18:57.14 | T0mW | cute, I guess that would be a 50ohm feedpoint though: each quad == 100ohms |
| 18:57.35 | T0mW | then you have a billboard reflector |
| 18:58.35 | T0mW | GPSFan: what is the stripline for? |
| 18:58.41 | *** join/#edev catastrop (n=catastr0@d14-69-178-65.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 18:58.56 | GPSFan | T0mW: sort of, I built those antennas a few years ago, and want to get back to the model, now that I have wine working with the modeling program. |
| 18:59.39 | GPSFan | T0mW: that's the swr bridge. |
| 18:59.51 | T0mW | ah |
| 19:00.35 | GPSFan | the smt resistors are actually resistive at 2400MHz and you can make a nice low power bridge with them and a good diode. |
| 19:00.39 | T0mW | oh |
| 19:01.02 | T0mW | didn't recognize the glass diode, I thought it was an electrolytic |
| 19:02.36 | GPSFan | those are 2 stacket 100ohm 0603's the diode isn't the best for 2400, but it works |
| 19:02.37 | T0mW | when I tossed most of my electronics compnents inventory last year, I just couldn't bear to part with the raw double-side 0.062 board stock, or the 0.030 single-sided teflon board sheets. |
| 19:03.40 | T0mW | yeah, you're not measuring power, just minimum reflection, so efficiency is non-issue |
| 19:04.56 | T0mW | GPSFan: you gonna stack some directors in front of those quads? heh, like add a plastic dowel and glue on some more "bent paperclips". ;) |
| 19:05.44 | GPSFan | ;>) |
| 19:05.56 | T0mW | I wonder if a yagi director would be easy to construct? spacing is < Y/4 |
| 19:06.18 | *** join/#edev chouimat2 (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 19:06.27 | T0mW | somewhere around Y/10 or Y/8 |
| 19:07.32 | T0mW | 2.4GHz must be fun to shoot over long distance with thermal layers reflecting the signal path |
| 19:08.20 | T0mW | I've heard of probs with 1.2GHz path over a hayfield where summer heating would disrupt the path |
| 19:09.24 | T0mW | but, at 2.4GHz you can push lots of data, even run a remote camera |
| 19:13.27 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp025.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 19:45.16 | *** join/#edev torindel (n=torindel@mail.tau.com.pl) |
| 19:45.23 | *** part/#edev torindel (n=torindel@mail.tau.com.pl) |
| 19:51.26 | GPSFan | T0mW: my isp has several 12 mile paths using 5.8GHz for backhaul. plenty of speed. |
| 19:51.36 | T0mW | lol |
| 19:52.07 | T0mW | lots of deviation space @ 5.8GHz |
| 19:57.25 | stelios_ | if you are talking about 802.11a i have measured it to 28MBit in "normal" mode and 35Mbit in turbo (takes 2 channels) |
| 19:58.15 | stelios_ | that is with tcp |
| 19:59.26 | *** join/#edev Ifaistos (n=stelios@ipa226.211.tellas.gr) |
| 20:24.40 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (i=nobody@nat/amd/x-f73768d7915ef573) |
| 20:24.40 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 20:44.33 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 22:55.12 | *** join/#edev pierrelux (n=pierre-l@144-125.sh.cgocable.ca) |
| 23:10.39 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-220-239.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 23:16.28 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@145.17.204.121.board.fz.fj.dynamic.163data.com.cn) |
| 23:23.15 | *** join/#edev dijenerate_ (n=dijenera@69.73.209.190) |
| 23:54.48 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@80.81.66.218.broad.fz.fj.dynamic.163data.com.cn) |