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| 01:07.13 | ds2 | Hmmmm this sucks |
| 01:07.20 | ds2 | mere 8M of RAM |
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| 01:13.54 | joe_bleau | I'm coding for 256kB |
| 01:14.41 | ds2 | well, you are not running Linux in 256K =) |
| 01:14.47 | joe_bleau | Nope. |
| 01:15.41 | ds2 | trying to figure out a TV now board |
| 01:16.01 | joe_bleau | Ah, I saw some mention of that in the logs |
| 01:16.18 | joe_bleau | How's it look? |
| 01:16.30 | joe_bleau | (I've been wanting a new project) |
| 01:17.30 | ds2 | look in what way? |
| 01:17.50 | ds2 | I am just doing a parts inventory and hoping someone can help me figure out where the JTAG pins are |
| 01:17.51 | joe_bleau | cpu, flash, sdram, jtag, any undocumented chips |
| 01:18.06 | ds2 | well... |
| 01:19.23 | ds2 | this is my notes as I am building it at the moment: (do not link to it, no bandwidth) |
| 01:19.38 | joe_bleau | understood |
| 01:19.43 | ds2 | http://p.dragonslair.rehut.com:7080/~ds2/d05282007/tvnow.html |
| 01:19.57 | ds2 | I am looking at the board and coming back to look up parts |
| 01:20.49 | joe_bleau | 128MB NAND? |
| 01:21.01 | ds2 | yep |
| 01:21.16 | ds2 | just as pprlague predicted |
| 01:21.19 | joe_bleau | Any slots? |
| 01:22.16 | ds2 | yes, 1 SD |
| 01:23.00 | joe_bleau | Does it appear to have any serial port pads? |
| 01:23.14 | ds2 | btw, typo on the CPU P/N |
| 01:23.20 | ds2 | pads... HE HE HE HE |
| 01:23.26 | ds2 | that thing is filled with test point pads |
| 01:23.40 | joe_bleau | That's a good sign. |
| 01:23.44 | ds2 | if you got the logs, look at the link pprlogue posted, some guy had a picture |
| 01:24.05 | ds2 | I can't seem to get legible pictures on PCBs; the copper traces over expose stuff |
| 01:26.29 | joe_bleau | ok, I'm loading the pic from the parallax forums now |
| 01:26.51 | joe_bleau | Jeez, that's ugly. |
| 01:27.01 | ds2 | that's what I said when I first opened it |
| 01:27.23 | ds2 | but there are I think 12 or so pads that you can see on the picture |
| 01:28.00 | joe_bleau | Yeah, that 2x4 pad array looks important |
| 01:30.27 | ds2 | I have neither the knowledge or the experience to determine if it is jtag :( |
| 01:30.27 | ds2 | Hmm I am missing a digit in the number |
| 01:30.27 | joe_bleau | Is the backside of the cpu bga grid accessible? |
| 01:31.32 | ds2 | definite not |
| 01:31.33 | ds2 | think the CPU is right under the SD socket |
| 01:31.33 | joe_bleau | Shoot. |
| 01:31.33 | joe_bleau | Well, that might not be impossible to cleanly remove |
| 01:31.35 | joe_bleau | The sliver box marked 3M? |
| 01:31.37 | ds2 | don't think I have the tehcnology/skills to remove that |
| 01:31.44 | ds2 | yes, the 3M marked box is the SD socket |
| 01:32.04 | joe_bleau | What's the other silver can? |
| 01:32.47 | ds2 | the one torward one side? |
| 01:32.59 | joe_bleau | Oh, your notes have it--the video decoder. |
| 01:33.05 | ds2 | no |
| 01:33.21 | ds2 | that is on the bottom of the board w/the processor |
| 01:33.31 | ds2 | that big thing next to the 3M part is unknown |
| 01:33.34 | joe_bleau | left of the SD card. |
| 01:33.44 | joe_bleau | Almost looks like it's a daughtercard |
| 01:33.55 | ds2 | it is actually on a different board connected with 2 either 0.050 pitch (or metric) headers |
| 01:34.02 | ds2 | and it is shelded on all sides |
| 01:34.14 | ds2 | might be the mpeg encoder as I don't see how the poor little arm can encode |
| 01:35.28 | joe_bleau | It's hard to make out depth in the pic, but it almost looks like it's three or four PWBs |
| 01:35.46 | ds2 | there are 4 PCBs |
| 01:36.07 | ds2 | one on each side, the main board, and a tiny daughter board on top of the main board |
| 01:36.20 | joe_bleau | Yep. Seems like a lot for $25, you know? |
| 01:36.43 | joe_bleau | Shoot...wal*show out of stock. |
| 01:36.45 | ds2 | yep. probally why it is so disgusting looking ;) yellow blobs and hot melt glue all over |
| 01:36.53 | ds2 | amazon has some, but more then $25 |
| 01:37.18 | joe_bleau | How's the screen? |
| 01:37.20 | ds2 | if it had more memory, it would make such a not mobile device |
| 01:37.30 | ds2 | about the same as the Juice Boxes |
| 01:37.47 | ds2 | not modern PDA quality but not horrible |
| 01:40.00 | ds2 | of note here is, most of the electrolytics are through hole; probally a cost thing |
| 01:41.07 | joe_bleau | Wild. I'd have expected a single PWB to cut costs, but there's four! |
| 01:41.27 | joe_bleau | Labor must be cheap to hand solder those caps, |
| 01:41.32 | joe_bleau | and then go back with the hot glue. |
| 01:41.37 | ds2 | well, this thing looks like they time transported bunch of assemblers from the 80's to do it |
| 01:41.59 | ds2 | it is definitely not up to par with board quality from the 90's and up |
| 01:42.28 | joe_bleau | All they need is to put some 1/4W resistors on end, and they'll have ugly covered! |
| 01:42.40 | ds2 | yep |
| 01:44.24 | joe_bleau | Can you tell if there's anything besides solder holding down the SD slot? |
| 01:45.01 | ds2 | looks like it is mounted entirely by surface mount soldering |
| 01:45.27 | ds2 | but the top daughter board overlaps it a bit and there is a foam (spacer?) glued on top |
| 01:45.58 | joe_bleau | OK, I can see that. |
| 01:46.36 | joe_bleau | From here, it looks like it should be possible to cleanly remove the SD slot and access the cpu vias. |
| 01:47.13 | ds2 | Not sure if there a pins underneath the socket |
| 01:47.38 | ds2 | oops me bad |
| 01:47.41 | ds2 | orientation problem |
| 01:47.51 | ds2 | the CPU is NOT under the SD socket but on the other end of the board |
| 01:48.43 | joe_bleau | under that daughterboard? |
| 01:48.56 | ds2 | no, under the black foam |
| 01:49.09 | ds2 | there are 2 "oops" jumpers implemented with 1/8w resistors |
| 01:49.14 | joe_bleau | gotcha |
| 01:49.16 | ds2 | both 10K |
| 01:49.28 | ds2 | I do not see a regular grid of vias :( |
| 01:49.58 | joe_bleau | cpu is bga, right? |
| 01:50.34 | ds2 | yep 208pin |
| 01:50.46 | ds2 | 208 balls I mean |
| 01:51.22 | ds2 | holy crap... I think there are blind vias |
| 01:52.23 | joe_bleau | Very surprising. |
| 01:54.34 | ds2 | how many pins is jtags typically? |
| 01:56.02 | joe_bleau | standard pinouts vary. I've seen 2x10 for ARM |
| 01:56.46 | ds2 | yes but a lot of those are unused/ground... was wondering more of what people typically put on boards |
| 01:56.53 | joe_bleau | Bare min is what? gnd, tck, tms, tdi, tdo? trst is optional, I think. |
| 01:57.00 | ds2 | Hmmmm |
| 01:57.16 | ds2 | there is 4 TP's, visible on there that is very close to the CPU |
| 01:57.38 | ds2 | it is on the bottom, to the left of the flex connector, just left of the |
| 01:57.45 | ds2 | little through hole electrolytic |
| 01:58.52 | joe_bleau | Not seeing it. |
| 01:59.07 | ds2 | what's the URL for the parallax site again? |
| 01:59.13 | joe_bleau | http://forums.parallax.com/forums/attach.aspx?a=11151 |
| 01:59.18 | joe_bleau | (That's the pic) |
| 01:59.29 | joe_bleau | The post is at: http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=158549 |
| 01:59.48 | ds2 | oh... in the pic, they didn't use a through hole electrolytic |
| 01:59.59 | ds2 | see the D mark on the bottom of the main board? |
| 02:00.05 | ds2 | (red marker) |
| 02:00.11 | joe_bleau | Yeah, I'm with you know. |
| 02:00.48 | ds2 | if you follow those 4 TP's about 3/8" up and 1/8" over from the left most TP, that's the CPU |
| 02:00.55 | ds2 | (under the board of course) |
| 02:01.16 | ds2 | that dome shaped thing to the bottom right of the SD socket is a reset button |
| 02:01.28 | joe_bleau | gotcha |
| 02:02.25 | ds2 | that crystal in the upper right of the board is 28.6363MHz which I think is for use with the video decoder (right underneath that xtal) |
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| 09:24.04 | SpaceMonkey | greetz |
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| 13:54.54 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:56.06 | prpplague | holy cow |
| 14:56.08 | prpplague | ~quote scox |
| 14:56.19 | prpplague | what the hell happened on friday? |
| 14:56.30 | reppel | hi, is it possible to configure the kernel to not try to mount the rootfs until has finished to scan for usb-storage devices? |
| 14:57.30 | Crofton | what is happening today? |
| 14:58.11 | prpplague | reppel: yes you can make changes like that, but it does take some planning and work |
| 14:58.14 | prpplague | Crofton: ssdd |
| 14:58.41 | prpplague | Crofton: 200k shares on friday, and over 300k shares today already |
| 15:01.25 | wmat | prpplague: why is it up 41 cents? |
| 15:01.29 | prpplague | Crofton: oh i forgot, hearing on thursday |
| 15:01.43 | wmat | ah |
| 15:01.51 | prpplague | wmat: i guess people are rtying to get out of large short blocks |
| 15:02.09 | prpplague | hehe, that didn't sound right |
| 15:02.18 | wmat | i think i get it though |
| 15:02.18 | Crofton | this stuff is complicated ..... |
| 15:02.32 | prpplague | large blocks of shorted shares |
| 15:02.47 | prpplague | that better? |
| 15:17.16 | prpplague | reppel: what is it your are trying to accomplish? |
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| 15:18.21 | reppel | prpplague: i want to wait until the scan on usb devices has finished so i do not have to poll /dev/ nodes to understand if a usb memory is present at boot or not |
| 15:19.13 | Crofton | prpplague, I have the olimex usb jtag thing |
| 15:19.13 | Crofton | the connector has 20 pins |
| 15:19.13 | Crofton | I am confused |
| 15:19.21 | Crofton | The JTAG connector on the OSK has 14 pins |
| 15:19.35 | prpplague | reppel: just change the compile/link order, you will just have to be careful that you don't break a dependency |
| 15:19.52 | prpplague | Crofton: the 14 pin header was the original arm jtag pinout |
| 15:20.00 | prpplague | Crofton: the 20 pin is the newer standard |
| 15:20.21 | prpplague | Crofton: basically the difference is that the 20 pin has every other pin as ground to help with emi |
| 15:20.36 | chouimat | hi prpplague Crofton CosmicPenguin |
| 15:20.37 | Crofton | how does one connect one to the other? |
| 15:20.42 | prpplague | Crofton: you can wire up a small adapter on a perf board |
| 15:20.45 | Crofton | url? |
| 15:20.58 | prpplague | Crofton: on sec |
| 15:21.25 | prpplague | chouimat: greetings |
| 15:24.18 | prpplague | Crofton: http://hri.sourceforge.net/tools/jtag_faq_org.html |
| 15:31.20 | prpplague | Crofton: you can get some proto board and just wire up a small adapter |
| 15:32.45 | Crofton | yeah |
| 15:32.56 | Crofton | I'll have to poke around in the bins |
| 15:34.10 | prpplague | holy cow |
| 15:34.13 | prpplague | ~quote scox |
| 15:34.31 | Crofton | wish I'd bought some ... |
| 15:34.33 | wmat | should have bought in at 98 cents |
| 15:35.20 | prpplague | some serious trade volume going on |
| 15:37.28 | chouimat | prpplague: M$ |
| 15:37.34 | prpplague | wow all the stocks boards have rumors of a buyout |
| 15:37.44 | wmat | by who? |
| 15:37.50 | CosmicPenguin | they always have rumors of buyouts |
| 15:37.55 | CosmicPenguin | go to AMD message boards, they say the same thing |
| 15:38.07 | CosmicPenguin | the only two companies that are never rumored to be bought out are Microsoft and IBM |
| 15:38.14 | CosmicPenguin | usually, because IBM and Microsoft are the ones doing the buying |
| 15:38.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: agreed |
| 15:38.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the only thing i can think of is the pending hearing on thursday |
| 15:39.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but even with that, i'm amazed at the price and volume |
| 15:39.05 | chouimat | wmat: it's me who is buying sco ... go a nice loan from the federal gov ... ;p |
| 15:39.12 | wmat | heh |
| 15:39.13 | chouimat | s/got/got |
| 15:39.26 | chouimat | wmat: :D |
| 15:39.46 | CosmicPenguin | Leave it to Canada |
| 15:40.45 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: the cad is around 0.9330 usd today ... so it's time for us to invest in your country ;) |
| 15:41.07 | prpplague | chouimat: wow, didn't know it was that high |
| 15:41.28 | prpplague | chouimat: i know the euro was pretty high too |
| 15:42.09 | chouimat | prpplague: the cad is up 0.70 us cent today |
| 15:42.25 | prpplague | i saw something on the news the other day that said, US Citizens traveling outside of the US is at 50 year low |
| 15:42.33 | CosmicPenguin | In just about a month, I'm coming up and spending my fair share of CAD on beer |
| 15:42.41 | CosmicPenguin | doing my part |
| 15:43.21 | prpplague | only 26% of the US population has passports |
| 15:43.31 | chouimat | prpplague: and econimists say we might have parity by the end of the year ... some others say it will be around end of 2008, beginning of 2009 |
| 15:43.47 | prpplague | and 52% have never even been outside the country |
| 15:43.56 | prpplague | chouimat: interesting |
| 15:44.07 | chouimat | ok stitches on a finger really don't help the typing :) |
| 15:45.05 | prpplague | chouimat: well i know a ton of skilled workers from the west indies are choosing to go canada rather than the US |
| 15:45.43 | chouimat | prpplague: true easier to get here :) and the economy is doing well too ;) |
| 15:46.58 | chouimat | http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/05/29/bankrateannounce.html |
| 15:47.54 | prpplague | chouimat: yea, for most of the west indies, its just a one page form and $250cad, done in 14 days |
| 15:48.43 | prpplague | chouimat: would have been a little harder for me, but my wife's would have been that easy |
| 15:49.21 | prpplague | chouimat: you know, those canadians don't want good ol' texas boys up there |
| 15:50.23 | chouimat | prpplague: learn french (but don't try to get a perfect parisian accent) and you will be ok in Quebec ... we "used" to hate them more than texans ;) |
| 15:50.46 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:51.12 | prpplague | chouimat: now that's something to hear, a texas accented person speaking french |
| 15:51.42 | chouimat | even in my wildest dreams I won't be able to imagine :) |
| 15:51.57 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe |
| 15:52.02 | prpplague | chouimat: you attending OLS? |
| 15:52.24 | chouimat | prpplague: no ... but I'm in town ... |
| 15:52.33 | prpplague | chouimat: why not? |
| 15:52.56 | chouimat | prpplague: no time and no budget for conference this year |
| 15:53.16 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:53.19 | CosmicPenguin | you can just hang around in the hall |
| 15:54.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sorry i won't be there to heckel you |
| 15:55.00 | chouimat | prpplague: I'm also slowly recovering from a long depression ... so before I go to conference I will wait to be less easy at getting bored ... |
| 15:55.06 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 15:55.36 | prpplague | chouimat: ahh |
| 15:56.18 | prpplague | thats my only complaint about AML, they don't fund employees to go to conferences, other than sales people |
| 15:56.51 | chouimat | prpplague: xandros it was managers ... |
| 16:00.06 | prpplague | aml has a tuition reimbursement, but it doesn't apply to most anything outside of standard college courses |
| 16:01.45 | prpplague | cbrake: you find any more info on those ar6k modules? |
| 16:02.23 | chouimat | prpplague: next time just say it's not a conference but a seminar or something like this ;) |
| 16:02.55 | CosmicPenguin | Or get a paper accepted - then you *have* to go |
| 16:02.55 | prpplague | chouimat: seminar, conference, two day training, certifcation classes, none of those are covered |
| 16:03.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: doubt that would make a different to them |
| 16:13.23 | cbrake | prpplague: still have not heard back from Atheros. I'm pestering the local rep and some people at Atheros, so hopefully I'll hear something soon. |
| 16:14.46 | cbrake | prpplague: supposedly they are out there: 1.2.08 release, add changes to comm code to support changes in SC code -- used to debug SC detectiona and comm problems in the field |
| 16:15.17 | cbrake | prpplague: oops, try again with correct contents in copy/paste buffer: http://www.codeplex.com/CEWifiDriverAR6000/Thread/View.aspx?ThreadId=9426 |
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| 17:10.38 | prpplague | cbrake: hehe, ok, if you can let me know if you find some |
| 17:25.07 | ds2 | hey prpplague, inventoried the major visible chips on the TVnow |
| 17:25.19 | ds2 | good news - 128M flash; bad news - 8M RAM |
| 17:29.10 | prpplague | ds2: thats not bad at all |
| 17:29.23 | prpplague | ds2: got a list posted? |
| 17:29.28 | prpplague | ds2: got a wiki page started? |
| 17:29.37 | ds2 | no wiki page |
| 17:29.39 | ds2 | but - |
| 17:29.44 | prpplague | ds2: why the hell not? |
| 17:30.06 | ds2 | http://p.dragonslair.rehut.com:7080/d05282007/tvnow.html |
| 17:30.14 | ds2 | no bandwidth, do not link, feel free to mirror |
| 17:30.26 | ds2 | cuz I am lazy? =) actually, no time |
| 17:31.00 | prpplague | no found |
| 17:31.22 | ds2 | you need the tvnow.html |
| 17:31.40 | ds2 | ooops |
| 17:31.40 | ds2 | sorry |
| 17:31.48 | ds2 | http://p.dragonslair.rehut.com:7080/~ds2/d05282007/tvnow.html |
| 17:31.55 | ds2 | I did it as myself as it was my primary notes |
| 17:32.49 | ds2 | I think I credited anything that is not written by me... it is my working notes so.... |
| 17:34.46 | prpplague | ds2: well the tsop can be upgraded |
| 17:34.46 | prpplague | ds2: for sdram |
| 17:34.47 | prpplague | ds2: were there any photo's posted of the main board? |
| 17:34.47 | ds2 | donno if they ran the lines for the ram |
| 17:34.47 | ds2 | I didn't take any photos |
| 17:34.47 | prpplague | ds2: i'd like to see if that CoB is some flash |
| 17:34.50 | ds2 | how do you tell? they are epoxy blobs |
| 17:34.50 | prpplague | ds2: the 8 and 16 mb sdram packages use the same lines |
| 17:34.56 | ds2 | Oh cool |
| 17:35.00 | prpplague | ds2: you can see where its hooked up |
| 17:35.14 | prpplague | could be an audio chip, but most likely a small nor flash |
| 17:35.37 | ds2 | not sure how you would trace that; it is pretty densely packed and it looks like there might even be blind vias :/ pain to trace |
| 17:35.58 | ds2 | oh and there are 3 chips I can't account for... might be in that shielded top daughterboard |
| 17:36.40 | prpplague | ds2: yea, usually i depopulate a board to do the testing and routing |
| 17:36.52 | ds2 | Oh... not sure if I want do that |
| 17:36.57 | prpplague | ds2: hehe |
| 17:37.19 | ds2 | my removal skills have a 60-70% success rate :( |
| 17:37.22 | prpplague | when i have time this weekend i'll see if i can find some |
| 17:37.45 | prpplague | ds2: just put it in the oven, then wipe it off with a heavy rage |
| 17:37.49 | ds2 | but what do you do about tracing the BGA? think the main goal is to find jtag now |
| 17:37.49 | prpplague | rag |
| 17:38.09 | ds2 | Oh... so you have multiple units to look at? =) |
| 17:38.23 | prpplague | ds2: they have to flash it somehow, so there will be jtag somewhere |
| 17:38.25 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 17:38.48 | prpplague | ds2: rule generally is to get 3 units, 1 to depopulate, 1 to hack, and 1 as a reference |
| 17:38.50 | ds2 | why do you think it is flash based instead of just mask rom under the COBs? |
| 17:39.10 | ds2 | I must remember that the next time I find stuff... still new to this game |
| 17:39.23 | prpplague | ds2: generally speaking most people substitue the word flash for rom these days |
| 17:41.09 | ds2 | (that or get a job doing that ;)) |
| 17:41.09 | prpplague | ds2: it is indeed probably a OTP nor flash style device |
| 17:41.09 | ds2 | so you do think it is programmable on board |
| 17:41.09 | prpplague | ds2: no, the CoB is probably OTP |
| 17:41.09 | prpplague | ds2: you'd need to add some NOR flash to make it work with linux |
| 17:41.09 | ds2 | right but is it programmed on the board or on a test station w/probes |
| 17:41.10 | prpplague | ds2: onboard |
| 17:41.10 | ds2 | why? (trying to figure out what do you know here...) the datasheet says it can boot off NAND |
| 17:41.10 | prpplague | ds2: CoB precludes doing it with probes |
| 17:41.35 | prpplague | ds2: nand isn't as reliable as nor for booting |
| 17:41.37 | ds2 | prpplague: so semiconductor manufactures no longer preprogram chips for customers? |
| 17:41.49 | prpplague | ds2: not for ages |
| 17:41.57 | ds2 | ah okay |
| 17:42.10 | ds2 | this is where my lack of current industrial practices is showing :( |
| 17:43.25 | ds2 | how many pins do most people implement for JTAG? I know arm has a bunch defined but in practice... |
| 17:44.59 | prpplague | ds2: just the basicals, tdo, tdi , tclk, nTrst, tms, gnd, vcc |
| 17:45.49 | ds2 | Interesting... 7 pads... there is 2 blocks of 4 pads on the front of the board |
| 17:46.26 | ds2 | (front as seen in the forum picture) |
| 17:46.26 | prpplague | ds2: any labeling? |
| 17:46.27 | ds2 | nope |
| 17:46.42 | *** part/#edev LyosNorezel2 (n=lyosnore@unaffiliated/lyosnorezel) |
| 17:46.42 | ds2 | well, no letters but it is arranged as if it fits a 2x4 0.1 header/probe |
| 17:48.17 | prpplague | ds2: interesting |
| 17:48.36 | ds2 | oh and there is a silk screened square box around them.. you can see it in the picture |
| 17:52.01 | prpplague | ds2: what picture? |
| 17:53.25 | prpplague | ds2: nm |
| 17:54.58 | prpplague | ds2: yea i'd say there is a high probability of that being a jtag header |
| 17:55.47 | prpplague | ds2: looks like an awesome little dev board |
| 17:56.24 | prpplague | ds2: btw, thats more than likely a 12mhz xtal |
| 17:56.36 | ds2 | the engraving in there says 28.6363MHz |
| 17:56.41 | ds2 | less the MHz part |
| 17:57.20 | prpplague | ds2: for the barrel one? |
| 17:57.41 | ds2 | no the short one... HC12(?) |
| 17:57.53 | ds2 | the barrel one I am assuming to be a 32KHz |
| 17:58.02 | prpplague | ds2: yea, the barrel one, is most like 12mhz to drive the usb clock |
| 17:58.26 | ds2 | wow... I didn't know they had 12MHz in the barrel case |
| 17:58.28 | prpplague | ds2: it will either be 6 to 12mhz |
| 17:59.01 | ds2 | prpplague: thought the ARM has a PLL to generate the 12/48MHz? |
| 17:59.31 | prpplague | ds2: not all do |
| 17:59.41 | prpplague | ds2: for usb |
| 17:59.46 | prpplague | ds2: some have seperate clocks |
| 18:00.10 | ds2 | prpplague: the datasheet didn't mention a dedicated clock; just 2 inputs for clocks |
| 18:00.43 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 18:01.12 | ds2 | before I put it on the wiki, what's the rule with stuff like datasheets, can I mirror them on the wiki? |
| 18:01.55 | prpplague | ds2: got right ahead |
| 18:02.08 | prpplague | ds2: just be sure and a link back to the site where you got the datasheet |
| 18:02.15 | ds2 | I assume you will be the one getting the nasty-gram from the lawyers if they object =) |
| 18:02.22 | ds2 | okay |
| 18:02.54 | ds2 | when I find a moment, I'll put in (or feel free to cut and paste it verbatium; my page is my working notes) |
| 18:04.00 | prpplague | ds2: CELF will be, and unless the company has a text restricting the usage of the datasheet, there shouldn't be a problem |
| 18:04.42 | ds2 | prpplague: i been following the stuff with Marvell so I'm a little paranoid at the moment |
| 18:04.52 | prpplague | ds2: marvell is different |
| 18:05.08 | prpplague | ds2: they have specially listed their documents as "no distribute" |
| 18:05.35 | ds2 | prpplague: they also have written up a "GPL" drive and then forced people to not distribute it |
| 18:05.54 | prpplague | ds2: that is not entirely correct |
| 18:06.31 | ds2 | prpplague: elaborate, please... |
| 18:06.55 | prpplague | ds2: portions are GPL, which can be distributed, however the sections that are needed to make it work, i.e. the sdio interface and the internal firmware for the chipset, are not covered under GPL |
| 18:07.58 | ds2 | prpplague: the situation I am thinking of is different... they sold the WiFi chips to gumstix folks saying they have a GPL driver (it uses a CF interface)... as soon as gumstix put it up, they were threatened and force to remove it |
| 18:08.48 | prpplague | ds2: correct, because gumstix also posted the sections of the driver which are NOT covered under the GPL |
| 18:09.21 | ds2 | prpplague: according to the gumstix folks, they have a sales contract that says the entire thing they are receiving is GPL'ed |
| 18:09.45 | prpplague | ds2: i'd say thats probably bogus |
| 18:09.47 | ds2 | so I am not sure if I should insist on a refund from them or what not |
| 18:10.18 | prpplague | ds2: there is a gpl'd version of the driver in the works, however that does not relieve the burden of the non gpl firmware |
| 18:10.33 | ds2 | as far as I know, we are not talking about firmware... just the glue to load the firmware and to talk to it |
| 18:10.34 | prpplague | ds2: the OLPC people are funding someone to write GPL'd firmware |
| 18:10.46 | ds2 | GPL'ed firmware? is that legal? |
| 18:10.57 | prpplague | ds2: in order to use the driver, you have to load the firmware |
| 18:11.06 | prpplague | ds2: yea, marvell is actually helping |
| 18:11.19 | prpplague | ds2: marvell paid a third party to do the firmware |
| 18:11.22 | ds2 | right but the firmware issue is a FCC thing (per the Atheros folks) |
| 18:11.24 | prpplague | ds2: which is where the issue is |
| 18:11.37 | prpplague | ds2: fcc thing? |
| 18:11.55 | ds2 | prpplague: FCC says you can't let "end users" tweak the radio |
| 18:12.19 | prpplague | ds2: ahh, yea, this is being done legally and will be FCC tested |
| 18:12.28 | ds2 | prpplague: that is suppose to be the origins of the Atheros HAL issue |
| 18:12.55 | ds2 | Oh I see. so you are saying Marvell is not really Beezelub by another name or the Son of SCO ;) |
| 18:12.58 | prpplague | ds2: i doubt the firmware will be release as open source, but it will be release under something compatible with distribustion |
| 18:13.07 | ds2 | gotcha |
| 18:13.12 | prpplague | ds2: they do have their issues |
| 18:13.34 | ds2 | Marvell is just looking really bad on the gumstix list |
| 18:14.09 | ds2 | all I want is a cheap WiFi interface with either a parallel (memory) type access or a SPI or I2C or 1wire with a GPL'ed driver |
| 18:15.06 | prpplague | ds2: join the crowd |
| 18:15.19 | prpplague | ds2: not much choice out there as cbrake is finding |
| 18:16.15 | ds2 | prpplague: do you know what's the story with the PRISM family? seems ideal |
| 18:16.29 | ds2 | did conexant just screwed everyone? |
| 18:17.34 | prpplague | ds2: just died, they didn't move into RoHS compliant |
| 18:18.03 | ds2 | prpplague: is that all? sigh... those were great CF cards |
| 18:25.14 | prpplague | yes |
| 18:29.06 | ds2 | wonder how much money do we have to raise to fund an open-source atheros based wifi module |
| 18:29.49 | wmat | i'll write it for 100K ;) |
| 18:30.00 | prpplague | ds2: the source for ar6k is available now as GPL |
| 18:30.30 | wmat | prpplague: so what's the SCO story? is it falling back to earth yet? |
| 18:31.08 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1103.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 18:31.52 | prpplague | ~quote scox |
| 18:32.07 | ds2 | prpplague: but where do you buy one of those? |
| 18:32.41 | ds2 | I wasn't think of drivers... more of what it would take to build one and sell at cost |
| 18:34.13 | ds2 | PCB+assembly+parts+RF voodoo |
| 18:37.00 | ds2 | or maybe even kits if the FCC gods don't strike it down |
| 18:39.48 | prpplague | ds2: yea, that is the main problem right now |
| 18:41.00 | prpplague | ds2: http://www.cardaccess-inc.com/products/index.php?a=wireless_lan |
| 18:41.03 | ds2 | prpplague: funding or ? |
| 18:41.13 | prpplague | ds2: they have ar6k cf cards as well as sdio dev boards |
| 18:42.11 | ds2 | "contact us" heh... is that where I get back a question of how many 10K units do I need? |
| 18:42.41 | ds2 | if the CF version was also low power (like the old Socket ones), 225 isn't too steep |
| 18:43.43 | wmat | hmmm, MV is holding a Dev Conference in Oct. |
| 18:43.50 | prpplague | wmat: where? |
| 18:44.01 | wmat | Santa Clara |
| 18:44.13 | wmat | http://www.mvista.com/vision/welcome.html |
| 18:44.41 | prpplague | oh, nm then |
| 18:45.15 | wmat | i get nervous when corps. launch Cons |
| 18:46.09 | prpplague | wmat: dfw to just about anywhere in CA is extremely expensive |
| 18:46.29 | wmat | really, why? |
| 18:46.31 | ds2 | fly into reno and drive over ;) |
| 18:46.41 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20|prom (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-252-205-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:47.17 | prpplague | wmat: don't know, its really weird, dfw to lax or dfw to nyc are just outrageous |
| 18:49.24 | ds2 | chouimat: why? |
| 18:49.36 | prpplague | chouimat: why? |
| 18:49.47 | chouimat | ds2: because I'm not sure the joke will be good ;) |
| 18:49.50 | chouimat | prpplague: ^^^^ |
| 18:53.42 | prpplague | ds2: lax to lga 1 stop is $179, lax to dfw 1 stop is $539 |
| 18:53.48 | *** join/#edev Chocobo (n=swinchen@strongbad.eece.maine.edu) |
| 18:54.29 | prpplague | ds2: dfw to lga is $724 |
| 18:54.41 | chouimat|away | prpplague: wow |
| 18:55.45 | prpplague | chouimat|away: dfw to yow, $444 |
| 18:56.23 | chouimat|away | prpplague: ok so I see they don't really try to protect you from the bad liberals of the north ;) |
| 18:56.24 | ds2 | prpplague: eh? why are you pricing it to LAX? |
| 18:56.47 | ds2 | price it to SFO/OAK/SJC |
| 18:56.54 | prpplague | ds2: ok |
| 18:57.16 | ds2 | LAX is a 400mile drive from that conference |
| 18:57.20 | prpplague | ds2: $549 |
| 18:57.26 | prpplague | ds2: for sfo |
| 18:57.26 | ds2 | SJC? |
| 18:57.28 | ds2 | oh |
| 18:57.48 | prpplague | same for sjc |
| 18:57.58 | ds2 | what airline? |
| 18:58.08 | prpplague | american |
| 18:58.16 | chouimat|nap | prpplague: 1 way or round trip? |
| 18:58.20 | ds2 | Hmmm... *shrug* |
| 18:58.25 | prpplague | chouimat|nap: round trip |
| 18:58.35 | prpplague | chouimat|nap: with a saturday stay |
| 19:02.56 | chouimat|nap | prpplague: yow - dfw is from 673 to 711 Cad |
| 19:04.42 | ds2 | wonder if DFW charges $150/head in taxes ;) |
| 19:05.50 | ds2 | am I correct in assuming through hole electrolytics are cheaper then SMT tantalums? |
| 19:07.24 | prpplague | chouimat|nap: what airline? |
| 19:07.40 | prpplague | ~exchange 673CAD to USD |
| 19:07.55 | prpplague | ~exchange 673 CAD to USD |
| 19:08.03 | chouimat|nap | prpplague: depend american, delta, air canada ... |
| 19:08.12 | chouimat|nap | I looked on expedia.ca :) |
| 19:08.38 | chouimat|nap | ~change 673 CAD in USD |
| 19:09.42 | prpplague | chouimat|nap: thats about 625 |
| 19:09.44 | prpplague | usd |
| 19:09.47 | chouimat|nap | yup |
| 19:10.06 | prpplague | still pretty darn expensive |
| 19:10.45 | prpplague | mia to yow is just $294 |
| 19:11.30 | prpplague | heck lax to yow is just $380 |
| 19:12.22 | chouimat|nap | prpplague: which date are you using? |
| 19:12.53 | prpplague | june 20th thru june 27th |
| 19:40.55 | chouimat|nap | prpplague: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ozRGmQPBs |
| 19:54.04 | prpplague | chouimat|nap: at work |
| 19:55.51 | *** join/#edev SpaceMonkey (n=andrew@client-82-12-227-238.brnt.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 19:55.54 | SpaceMonkey | yo all |
| 20:16.45 | chouimat|nap | prpplague: kde4 on qtopia-core |
| 20:20.05 | SpaceMonkey | Any tool-chain users on here? |
| 20:20.40 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: just about everyone |
| 20:20.44 | prpplague | ~quote scox |
| 20:21.29 | prpplague | thats the most volume for ages |
| 20:21.34 | SpaceMonkey | lol |
| 20:22.23 | SpaceMonkey | Im trying to set-up a new system for davinci / neuros and downloading one from codesourcery |
| 20:22.44 | prpplague | don't expect any help from us then |
| 20:23.06 | wmat | heh, why |
| 20:23.09 | SpaceMonkey | why? |
| 20:23.39 | SpaceMonkey | Im thinking that such a toolchain should work on any Arm v5 device? |
| 20:26.12 | Crofton | I can build DV executbales with the OSK toolchain from OE |
| 20:26.56 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: because we don't provide FREE tech support on products provided by commercial companies that charge for tech support |
| 20:27.09 | Crofton | :) |
| 20:27.23 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: if you want support from us, use a toolchain that is available to the community |
| 20:27.29 | SpaceMonkey | wtf??? dont all arm cpus come from commercial companies |
| 20:27.30 | Crofton | We provide free tech support to people who will learn our free solution and help improve it |
| 20:27.37 | Crofton | and help other people use it |
| 20:27.42 | SpaceMonkey | I am trying to build an OS toolchain |
| 20:27.58 | Crofton | I use OE toolchains |
| 20:28.06 | SpaceMonkey | And I help a lot of people with stuff I figure out. |
| 20:28.08 | Crofton | I think prpplague uses buildroot |
| 20:28.16 | Crofton | these are what we know |
| 20:28.25 | wmat | and I usually use buildroot or crosstool |
| 20:28.57 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: matter of principle |
| 20:29.22 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: if you want to use codesourcery, they pay them for tech support |
| 20:29.38 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: if you want to use buildroot or oe, then you'll get community support |
| 20:29.44 | SpaceMonkey | Im just asking where to start |
| 20:30.01 | SpaceMonkey | I want to build a chain from scratch. |
| 20:30.05 | Crofton | well, look at crosstools, buildroot, and oe |
| 20:30.25 | CosmicPenguin | thats a tough thing to start with |
| 20:30.55 | SpaceMonkey | Im tired of using provided chains and not knowing what they actually do. |
| 20:31.24 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-3949.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:32.56 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: then i'd say you probably should start with a known working platform that has directions and information on doing the build |
| 20:33.06 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: i.e. sa-1110 |
| 20:33.52 | SpaceMonkey | right cheers. |
| 20:34.10 | *** join/#edev ekiller200 (n=ekiller2@mail.newport-ent.com) |
| 20:44.53 | jbevren | hrm |
| 20:44.56 | jbevren | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5094510735.html <- neat |
| 20:48.40 | prpplague | jbevren: yea saw that |
| 20:48.48 | prpplague | jbevren: looks like a fun hack |
| 20:53.06 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-31-110.westend.de) |
| 20:55.54 | prpplague | does it saw what usb controller its using? |
| 20:56.00 | jbevren | it doesnt |
| 20:56.10 | jbevren | the linux article zooms in fairly far, so you can get the brand name from the logo |
| 20:56.14 | jbevren | but no thte specific model |
| 20:56.29 | jbevren | http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/yoggie_pico_sbc.jpg |
| 20:56.54 | jbevren | I believe its the same brand used in the gp2x |
| 20:57.03 | prpplague | jbevren: yea i tried zooming it, but couldn't see it |
| 21:00.09 | prpplague | jbevren: looks like "ACX" or maybe "RCX" |
| 21:00.49 | ds2 | a powerful "Intel processor" heh |
| 21:00.49 | jbevren | is it a 2272? |
| 21:00.56 | jbevren | or 2271? |
| 21:01.00 | prpplague | jbevren: yea looks like acx1100 |
| 21:01.08 | *** join/#edev silverpower_ (n=shrike@adsl-212-254-102.cha.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:02.33 | jbevren | prpplague: http://www.semiconductorstore.com/pdf/PLX/NET2272_Brochure_v1.3.pdf |
| 21:02.34 | jbevren | last page |
| 21:02.38 | jbevren | its that logo on the chip |
| 21:03.05 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:03.07 | prpplague | cool |
| 21:03.27 | jbevren | anyway, I suspect that's the IC |
| 21:03.41 | jbevren | I cant read the product code clearly, but '2272' would fit the blurs I'm seeing :) |
| 21:04.18 | prpplague | yea, i used gimp to enhance it |
| 21:04.23 | prpplague | it does say 2272 |
| 21:04.34 | jbevren | same as in the gp2x then |
| 21:04.42 | jbevren | it is a fast chip |
| 21:04.43 | jbevren | hehe |
| 21:04.57 | prpplague | interesting |
| 21:05.07 | prpplague | wonder if plx has a host controller |
| 21:05.09 | jbevren | if there arent mainstream kernel drivers, I'd be surprised |
| 21:05.18 | jbevren | and if there arent, there are in the gp2x kernel tree :) |
| 21:07.01 | ds2 | any chance that is also OTG? |
| 21:07.22 | CosmicPenguin | puke |
| 21:07.24 | jbevren | otg? |
| 21:07.28 | CosmicPenguin | puke |
| 21:07.42 | jbevren | what's otg, besides a vomit inciter for cp? |
| 21:07.53 | cbrake | prpplague: cardaccess is working on a SDIO card this summer -- may be ready by Sept or so. |
| 21:08.03 | cbrake | prpplague: still waiting on Atheros!!! |
| 21:10.02 | prpplague | cbrake: card or module? |
| 21:10.35 | prpplague | jbevren: "on the go" usb, can work as host or slave usb |
| 21:11.28 | ds2 | On The Go |
| 21:11.38 | ds2 | if that USB stick thing can be OTG.... :)~~~~~~~ |
| 21:11.52 | jbevren | ah |
| 21:12.06 | jbevren | the 2272 can host as well as be a device? |
| 21:12.06 | cbrake | prpplague: will be SDIO form factor, but no covers -- designed to be embedded. |
| 21:12.32 | prpplague | cbrake: who are you talking to at cardaccess? |
| 21:13.11 | prpplague | jbevren: from what i see no, the 2272 is just a slave controller |
| 21:13.34 | jbevren | right |
| 21:13.45 | jbevren | ds2: extend the pxa's usb port hehe |
| 21:13.51 | ds2 | now not only can you have over a gig of storage on your keychain, you can have more computing power on your keychain then entire desktops just mere 10-15 years ago |
| 21:14.03 | prpplague | yep |
| 21:14.11 | ds2 | jbevren: that assumes they brought it out from the BGA |
| 21:14.20 | prpplague | ds2: we have a s3c2410 in a 40 pin dip package |
| 21:14.21 | jbevren | ds2: find out for me :D |
| 21:14.30 | jbevren | prpplague: are you ever gonna market that? :) |
| 21:14.47 | ds2 | prpplague: I proballywill buy one those but it is just "too big" =) |
| 21:14.55 | prpplague | jbevren: still waiting on the boss to do something with it |
| 21:15.22 | prpplague | jbevren: if he waits too much longer it won't have any market edge |
| 21:15.34 | ds2 | with OTG, I can use the treo as a display |
| 21:16.08 | cbrake | prpplague: Ray Ivins |
| 21:16.25 | ds2 | wonder what the statistics are for technogeeks dying in a LiIon battery explosion ;) |
| 21:17.34 | prpplague | cbrake: hmm, thats the guy i was talking to, but he seemed to stop returning my emails |
| 21:17.44 | chouimat|pub | later :) |
| 21:17.51 | cbrake | prpplague: well, I'll keep you posted |
| 21:18.41 | ds2 | cbrake/prpplague: you guys talking about a useable WiFi interface w/Linux drivers? |
| 21:18.54 | cbrake | ds2: yup |
| 21:18.57 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:19.06 | cbrake | ds2: this project is actually WinCE :-\, but its about the same |
| 21:19.10 | ds2 | was just whining about it an hour ago |
| 21:19.54 | cbrake_away | ds2: catch you tomorrow and we can whine about it some more :-) |
| 21:19.59 | ds2 | later |
| 21:20.07 | prpplague | cbrake_away: later |
| 21:33.06 | SpaceMonkey | prpplague: downloading both OE and Crosstools. the force is guiding me... |
| 21:36.59 | prpplague | don't forget buildroto |
| 21:37.17 | CosmicPenguin | ooh - an automatic fantasy baseball team generator |
| 21:38.20 | SpaceMonkey | prpplague: do I need all of em? seems a lot of work to compile a hello world program |
| 21:41.44 | ds2 | crosstools should be enough to build helloworld |
| 21:42.25 | prpplague | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18899687/ |
| 21:42.30 | SpaceMonkey | im actually trying to build glib, liboil and libxml2, but im hoping.... |
| 21:42.34 | prpplague | jeeze, like someone needed to tell me that |
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