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| 02:15.20 | flyback | moo |
| 03:46.55 | wmat | chouimat|Zzzz: so early? you watch the game? |
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| 08:37.38 | SpaceMonkey | any linux brains awake yet? |
| 08:39.45 | SpaceMonkey | lol |
| 08:41.07 | steliosk | so what's the question ? |
| 08:41.40 | SpaceMonkey | Well. I am trying to build the smallest linux filesystem I can (with dhcp client), |
| 08:42.03 | SpaceMonkey | I was kindly send an x86 system that does this which is < 1mb |
| 08:42.22 | SpaceMonkey | On my arm, Im having trouble getting it < 5mb! |
| 08:43.09 | SpaceMonkey | I was wondering if I may have to recompile the libs etc in the hope they will magically get smaller? |
| 08:43.18 | steliosk | hmmm what filesystem are you using jffs2 ? |
| 08:43.33 | SpaceMonkey | at the moment its just an NFS share directory |
| 08:43.50 | SpaceMonkey | I understand they may compress up a bit more using something like jffs2 |
| 08:44.05 | steliosk | and this how you got the 5mb ? |
| 08:44.20 | steliosk | a few quick tips |
| 08:44.27 | steliosk | check your files are striped |
| 08:44.31 | SpaceMonkey | it says 4.8mb when i do a dir listing |
| 08:45.31 | steliosk | make sure you don't put stuff you don;t need (i.e locales if you are using glibc) |
| 08:45.53 | steliosk | and if you are using glibc switch to uclibc |
| 08:46.27 | steliosk | use a compressed file system |
| 08:46.27 | SpaceMonkey | I have to use some 3rd party binaries, is there the possbility that they will be able to use uclibc? is this very unlikely |
| 08:47.26 | SpaceMonkey | will do, I will see if I can shave off a bit more |
| 08:48.37 | steliosk | if they are compiled for glibc no |
| 08:53.05 | steliosk | unless they are statically linked |
| 08:53.20 | SpaceMonkey | ok, i will check em out |
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| 12:51.19 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:39.19 | SpaceMonkey | does anybody know the magic involved in copying a /dev directory and preserving all the nodes? |
| 14:47.37 | CosmicPenguin | yeah - don't copy it in the first place |
| 14:47.47 | SpaceMonkey | #Cheers |
| 14:50.22 | chouimat | I hate this |
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| 15:01.17 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceMonkey: I'm serious - use makedevs or udev or something |
| 15:02.08 | SpaceMonkey | CommicPenguin: I wouldnt ask the question if I knew what those were |
| 15:03.38 | CosmicPenguin | makedevs is in busybox - it uses a file to create the device tree on the fly |
| 15:04.05 | CosmicPenguin | udev is a utility that does the same thing, but dynamically figures out what devices you have based on plug events |
| 15:04.12 | SpaceMonkey | is there a typical name for the file? basically im creating a new image from an existing one |
| 15:06.11 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: the file usually is not included in the rootfs |
| 15:07.12 | SpaceMonkey | now that im digging, I think its using udev |
| 15:07.16 | chouimat | hi prpplague CosmicPenguin SpaceMonkey |
| 15:07.27 | SpaceMonkey | chouimat: hi |
| 15:07.31 | prpplague | chouimat: greetings |
| 15:08.00 | chouimat | ETA before interview 2h24 ... |
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| 15:37.29 | SpaceMonkey | apparently you can just tar the dev directory to copy |
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| 16:00.19 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: thats the wrong way to do it |
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| 16:01.01 | chouimat | prpplague: hehe |
| 16:01.08 | chouimat | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:02.20 | SpaceMonkey | prpplague: why is it :) it works |
| 16:02.34 | SpaceMonkey | I could mknod them all I suppose |
| 16:06.05 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: again thats what makedevs is designed for |
| 16:06.19 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: just becuase something works doesn't always mean that its the right way to do it |
| 16:06.25 | SpaceMonkey | prpplague: I will check it out one day. |
| 16:06.38 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: people have been doing embedded linux for awhile, they have reasons for the way it is done |
| 16:06.49 | prpplague | SpaceMonkey: its gonna come back to give you trouble |
| 16:07.05 | SpaceMonkey | prpplague: I would love to do it all the right way, whats the URL of the list where that is all written down? |
| 16:09.23 | SpaceMonkey | l8ters all. home time |
| 16:14.06 | CosmicPenguin | heh - no doubt |
| 16:14.19 | CosmicPenguin | everybody always acts like they're the first people to encounter these pains |
| 16:14.29 | CosmicPenguin | I used to tar the /dev, I used to used CPIO, I used to do lots of stupid things |
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| 17:34.43 | wmat | prpplague: did you ping me last night? |
| 17:42.56 | ds2 | ewwwww udev? you people must also like devfs too ;) |
| 17:51.24 | CosmicPenguin | The idea of devfs is fine - it was the implementation that struggled |
| 17:51.48 | CosmicPenguin | dynamically calculating device files in a directory that isn't on the storage medium is ++ for embedded |
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| 18:11.36 | ds2 | why would you say that? I would argue the opposite |
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| 18:24.46 | CosmicPenguin | devices files are a needless drain on the storage device - they're constant, they're well known, and they don't retain state |
| 18:25.24 | ds2 | how's that different from having a driver or a binary? |
| 18:25.53 | CosmicPenguin | Because device files can be instantly generated on the fly |
| 18:25.59 | CosmicPenguin | mknod is cheap and effective |
| 18:26.42 | CosmicPenguin | makedevs is a good start because we can create the known set of device files quickly on temporary filesystems |
| 18:27.19 | ds2 | that's worse, that would wind up commonly on a RAM disk which in many cases is tight as is |
| 18:27.31 | ds2 | compressed read only space is cheaper in a closed system |
| 18:27.47 | CosmicPenguin | Not for device files |
| 18:27.49 | ds2 | why? |
| 18:27.56 | CosmicPenguin | same price either way - remember, these are just inode entries |
| 18:28.08 | ds2 | not quite |
| 18:28.22 | ds2 | RO can be compressed; RW ramdisk are usually not compressed |
| 18:28.22 | prpplague | wmat: yea, but i can't remember what for |
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| 18:28.34 | wmat | prpplague: no worries then ;) |
| 18:28.34 | CosmicPenguin | what compression? these are device files |
| 18:28.40 | ds2 | for the inodes themselves |
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| 18:29.44 | CosmicPenguin | okay - well, you're inventing strawman arguments - if you can't stomach the half K of ram needed for a few hundred device files, then by all means, put them on the storage |
| 18:30.18 | ds2 | well, I've always consider this almsot religious; just figure I asked if there are stronger arguments one way or another |
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