IRC log for #edev on 20070803

02:10.41*** join/#edev FireEgl (i=FireEgl@FireEgl.CJB.Net)
02:51.57*** join/#edev Chocobo (n=swinchen@cpe-72-224-197-51.maine.res.rr.com)
04:31.11*** join/#edev linac (n=lin@95.82.76.222.broad.fz.fj.dynamic.163data.com.cn)
04:55.24*** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@www.crouse-house.com)
04:55.24*** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ
05:44.48*** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-26-24.westend.de)
06:23.24*** join/#edev LyosNorezel (n=LyosNore@unaffiliated/lyosnorezel)
06:35.15*** part/#edev LyosNorezel (n=LyosNore@unaffiliated/lyosnorezel)
06:51.56*** join/#edev steliosk (n=Stelios@ipa226.211.tellas.gr)
07:29.40*** join/#edev steliosk (n=Stelios@ipa226.211.tellas.gr)
07:34.14*** join/#edev hw_ (n=hw@p578b3905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
08:30.16*** join/#edev chouimat|busy (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net)
08:40.56*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp017.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)
08:59.42*** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1)
09:48.57*** join/#edev chouimat|busy (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net)
11:24.18*** join/#edev mallum (n=mallum@86.154.246.213)
11:40.48*** join/#edev FireEgl (i=FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa)
12:49.31*** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.248)
12:49.31*** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ
13:22.43chouimatmorning
13:54.38*** join/#edev prpplague (n=billybob@mail.americanmicrosystems.com)
14:00.45*** join/#edev Chocobo (n=swinchen@strongbad.eece.maine.edu)
14:48.58*** join/#edev CosmicPe1guin (n=nobody@crank.laptop.org)
14:49.43*** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ
14:49.51*** join/#edev CP|too (n=nobody@www.crouse-house.com)
14:49.51*** mode/#edev [+o CP|too] by ChanServ
15:08.12*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp195.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)
15:08.15wmatprpplague: ping
15:14.09prpplaguewmat: pong
15:14.19prpplaguewmat: what up?
15:15.02CosmicPenguinprpplague: ping
15:15.12Exilesyawn
15:16.43Exilesmorning
15:17.42*** join/#edev Crofton|work (n=balister@jhr-476-5192.mprg.ee.vt.edu)
15:23.34prpplagueCosmicPenguin: pong
15:23.43prpplagueCosmicPenguin: que paso?
15:24.11CosmicPenguinAre you aware of any scholarly case studies about how mysql pulls off its dual licencing scheme?
15:25.22prpplagueCosmicPenguin: sorry no, that hasn't come up in any of my research of late
15:25.57CosmicPenguinThere's lots of little stuff, but nothing in depth
15:26.02CosmicPenguinthey should write a white paper on the subject
15:37.50*** join/#edev hw_ (n=hw@p578b3905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
15:38.03prpplagueCosmicPenguin: indeed
15:39.40wmatprpplague: what did you ask me a couple of days ago? something about docs for boards?
15:40.13wmat"you still in for docs-for-hardware"?
15:44.18Exileswere supposed to email him days ago
15:47.02prpplaguewmat: yea, was jsut curious if you were still in for that
15:49.45*** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@adsl-147-159-13.sdf.bellsouth.net)
15:52.41prpplaguewmat: we are scheduled to start shipping betas next week
15:54.13ExilesI found my usb wifi card
15:56.33wmatprpplague: yep
15:56.42prpplaguewmat: okie dokie
15:59.22*** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ
16:15.29*** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-26-24.westend.de)
16:20.52GPSFanprpplague: any truth the 2 statements in http://elinux.org/Enc28j60 about the 2.6 driver? I have an ENC28J60-H on the way.
16:21.44prpplagueGPSFan: yea, i have most if it done and working
16:21.54GPSFan;>)
16:21.58prpplagueGPSFan: the only different between the 2.4 and 2.6 driver is some minor allocation stuff
16:22.12prpplagueGPSFan: but i still have yet to do the spi subsystem support
16:22.40prpplagueGPSFan: where did you order it from? sfe?
16:22.45GPSFanprpplague: well as long as there is at least a working 2.6 driver (ugly or not) that's a start.
16:23.00GPSFanhttp://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?cPath=98&products_id=1390
16:23.24prpplagueGPSFan: yea edtp seems to have stopped production of the framethrower
16:23.31prpplagueGPSFan: which i find was of better design
16:23.57GPSFanprpplague: sparkfun was out of stock, and olimex is on vacation till Sept.
16:24.08prpplagueGPSFan: lovely
16:25.22GPSFanprpplague: I started a wiki page for a how-to, but there won't be much there untill stuff arrives.
16:25.43_Exilesyeah
16:26.42prpplagueGPSFan: i don't think anyone has submitted a enc28j60 driver to the linux netdev list as of yet
16:27.19_Exilesprpplague, whats the estimated cost of the hammer board once it hits market?
16:27.35prpplague_Exiles: $159 for just the cpu board for a qty of 1
16:27.52prpplague_Exiles: similiar qty discount as sfe uses
16:27.55GPSFanprpplague: I haven't seen anything in kernel 2.6.20 (the latest I've used)
16:28.15_Exilesnot a bad price due to size
16:28.22prpplagueGPSFan: yea, alot of the network drivers are posted to netdev list first
16:28.52_ExilesI also have ENC28J60 pdip chips
16:29.05prpplague_Exiles: well if you consider the cost of a gumstix board($99) plus the cost of the boards nessary to interface to the gumstix(from $50-$100) you actually come out better
16:29.11GPSFanprpplague: I'll keep watch there too. I'm not the worlds best driver writer.
16:29.24prpplagueExiles: since with homeberw equipment you can work better with it
16:29.32prpplagueGPSFan: me either
16:29.40prpplagueGPSFan: but getting better
16:30.13GPSFan;>) I've only really written 1 from scratch (sort of), many 2.4 drivers though.
16:31.57prpplagueGPSFan: yea, the enc28j60 driver was my first network driver from scratch
16:32.08ExilesI prefer a board, that I know whe design of
16:32.22prpplagueExiles: ?
16:33.08Exilesthe scematics and such are nice to have
16:33.38prpplagueExiles: sorry, i'm lost , what are you refering to?
16:33.49Exilesboard like hammer board
16:34.05prpplagueExiles: ahh yea, the schematics for the hammer board will be available
16:34.06Exilesvs 3rd part boards
16:34.22Exilesparty*
16:35.17Exileswhere sometimes all you get is the source code, and pinouts
16:36.01prpplagueExiles: hehe, yea if i'm paying for a dev board, i want that kind of stuff
16:36.17prpplagueExiles: but the fun is when you are hacking a check device without any information
16:36.21prpplaguethats the real challenge\
16:37.23*** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net)
16:38.53Exileshmmmm, it has the power to decode mp3's and audio
16:39.56Exilesand a kvm
16:40.07T0mWtwo monitors
16:40.11T0mWplus a notebook
16:40.42T0mWthree keyboards, mice and video
16:40.45T0mW:P
16:40.55g1powermacprpplague, I got those power supply chips today, man they're small
16:41.01g1powermaccould be quite interesting to solder ;-)
16:41.17T0mWg1powermac: what are they? SOT?
16:41.30g1powermacno, qfn-10
16:41.34T0mWheh
16:41.37T0mWmicroscope
16:41.42g1powermacheh, yea
16:41.47Exilesnice
16:42.10g1powermacyeesh they're small
16:42.42T0mWg1powermac: I have solderpaste + hot air pencil for the PITA stuff
16:42.57g1powermacT0mW, yea, I could use one
16:43.08ExilesI need one
16:43.20T0mWZephyrtronics
16:43.30Exilesbut don't have enough
16:44.14g1powermacmight have to get a schmart board for it
16:44.38g1powermachttp://www.schmartboard.com/index.asp?page=products_csp&id=76
16:44.40T0mWyeah, I bought the whole kit: hot-air bath, pencil, board rack, paste dispenser.
16:44.51T0mWthat was before I discovered the toaster overn
16:44.56T0mWs/overn/ovenn
16:44.59T0mWdrat
16:45.01T0mWs/overn/oven
16:45.04CosmicPenguinnice
16:45.14T0mWI'
16:45.20ExilesI use my toster over to much for food
16:45.24T0mWve looked at those, interesting
16:45.37g1powermaclovely, more deliveries, bbiab
16:46.02T0mWExiles: yeah, not a good idea to multitask the toaster oven (PCBs + pop tarts)
16:46.13CosmicPenguinness
16:46.16CosmicPenguinerm
16:46.19CosmicPenguinits full of leady goodness
16:46.23CosmicPenguinseriously - irssi is wierd
16:46.26T0mWGPSFan: hey
16:46.37T0mWCosmicPenguin: it is
16:46.56T0mWCosmicPenguin: irssi is strange in how they setup their screen.
16:47.14GPSFanT0mW: howdy, you ever get OE & OpenZipit figured out?
16:47.58T0mWGPSFan: oh yeah, a few farts on OE's part, but all is well with bitbake v1.8
16:48.23T0mWGPSFan: any clues as to why an SD card > 512Meg won't work?
16:48.48T0mWGPSFan: I haven't tried it, but a number of people with mod'ed zipits have commented on that.
16:48.59GPSFanT0mW: that's good someday I'd like to start on that again, still want to learn about OE, but my last 2 experiences haven't been too good.
16:49.21T0mWGPSFan: OE experiences are never good, but I find it useful
16:49.21GPSFanno clue about >512M
16:49.29CosmicPenguinits been going through some strife lately
16:49.45T0mWCosmicPenguin: yeah, I've heard
16:50.12T0mWit sounds like there is two camps: angstrom vs the world
16:50.22CosmicPenguinjust like it was opie vs the world
16:50.25CosmicPenguinand gpe vs the world
16:50.28T0mWyup
16:50.44T0mWthe generalists vs the specifics
16:52.20T0mWI've noticed that my default build (bootstrap-image) has bloated from 31Meg to 42Meg with recent revisions to recipes.  There is a lot of stuff in there that I don't want / need.  I was hoping *not* to have to write my own task-base, but it looks to be the only way to cut the bloat.
16:52.32CosmicPenguinyeah - thats really the only way
16:53.11CosmicPenguinThere's a goodly amount of roll-you-own requirements for OE
16:53.30CosmicPenguinwich isn't so bad - because this is a embedded environment after all - everything is different
16:53.39CosmicPenguinbut OE tends to default to whatever the main guys think is useful
16:53.53CosmicPenguinand so when you want to diverge from that, you find yourself modifying many packages
16:54.48CosmicPenguinKergoth and I had talked a bit about designing a scheme whereby the configuration files lived in a completely different directory, and you could drop in your config files without touching the packages
16:54.52CosmicPenguinbut that never really worked out
16:55.04T0mWI've also seriously consider setting up an ipkg server for the zipit and shipping a stripped down installation (via the OpenZipitDistro download).  Then people can add what they want.  BUT, the zipit is just something interesting to play with to also justify playing with OE.
16:56.14T0mWAside from the issues with OE, it is still a good idea
16:56.26ExilesI've worked with a few embeded platfom styles rom wise. ones where the entire file system was writable, and ones where it read it's config files and made them on the fly and everything was somewheat static, the second was harder to kill
16:56.41Exilesthe first was more flexable though
16:56.46CosmicPenguinnon-sequitor on line one
16:57.34CosmicPenguinheh close enough
16:57.44CosmicPenguinwrong vowel
16:57.54T0mWheh
16:57.55stelioskTOmW : Use minimal-image you get just the things to boot a system
16:58.34T0mWsteliosk: that is what I am thinking.  Just enough functionality to get the system up on Wifi.
16:59.27stelioskTOmW : This is how we setup most of our systems now. minimal-image and a script that pulls the rest of the packages from a repository
16:59.36T0mWnod
17:00.08stelioskit takes a bit longer but on systems with limited resources it can make the difference
17:00.35T0mWthat is one side of OE that I have yet to spend any significant time investigating, the ipkg stuff.
17:01.15T0mWsteliosk: I'm basing the distro on the MMC card, the Flash memory is too puny to do anything serious with.
17:01.47stelioskit works without many problems, but you need to have some scripts to set it up if you target multiple machines
17:03.31T0mWthough, it is  cool to have perl running on the Zipit.  :P
17:04.12stelioskIn one case we had  a machine that had 4MB flash and a CF card, we have minimal-image in the flash with modified init scripts. If a CF with a valid fs is present it does pivot root
17:05.00stelioskif not uses the flash fs for some basic functionality
17:05.07T0mWhmm, I did not pivot_root with this system. just launch the kernel from Flash and have it boot the MMC card.
17:06.38T0mWI would like to boot a pre-kernel, load the real kernel from the MMC and boot that.  This way the running kernel can be easily changed and still have a "known good" kernel to boot with.
17:07.22T0mWsomething like run the prekernel from > 0xc200:0000
17:07.36stelioskyeah that is good. my system was ppc, never used kexec though
17:07.53T0mW~kexec
17:08.12T0mWpurl: wakeup!
17:08.29stelioskhave to go. bye for now
17:08.39T0mWpurl is unconsious today
17:23.32*** part/#edev pierrelux (n=pierre-l@144-125.sh.cgocable.ca)
17:46.13ds2Hmmmm
17:50.11chouimat|awaygrrrr
17:52.25*** join/#edev cole (n=cole@cpe-24-166-57-30.neo.res.rr.com)
17:52.59prpplagueg1powermac: oh you ordered some?
17:53.24g1powermacyup, got a couple samples
17:59.58ds2any word on if the iphone is running Linux yet?
18:01.38prpplagueds2: nothing that i've heard
18:01.54prpplagueds2: but there has been confirmation that it is a s3c2460 core
18:06.08ds2rumor has it that the bootloader is open...
18:06.32prpplagueds2: well as long as you have jtag, you can load what you want
18:06.44ds2*nod*
18:18.00ds2Mmmmm treolinux
18:27.07*** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-26-24.westend.de)
18:32.28*** join/#edev mmp (n=mmp@adsl-d166.84-47-63.t-com.sk)
18:33.01prpplaguenxp doesn't seem to be very excited about marketing the bluestreak
18:36.21mmpMonMotha: Hello, I just wanted to ask -- did you have some time to ask atmel folks abou at76c503 wpa firmware interface?
18:41.46*** join/#edev chouimat (n=dieu@kde/developer/chouinard)
18:53.38T0mWprpplague: seems fair, Sharp wasn't all that excited either
19:03.31prpplagueT0mW: true, but since NXP just shelled out tens of millions of dollars for the bluestreak you'd think they'd want to push their new products
19:40.20*** join/#edev mmp (n=mmp@adsl-d166.84-47-63.t-com.sk)
20:13.59CosmicPenguinI don't like the new design of opensource.org
20:29.30*** join/#edev FireEgl (i=FireEgl@Atlantica.Inet6.Info)
20:34.41T0mWprpplague: naw, they were probably purchasing the plant where the wafers were being built and had to swallow the bluestreak line as part of the deal
20:34.51T0mW:P
20:35.08prpplagueT0mW: yea i thought the same, but the wafer plant is leased from sharp
20:35.26prpplagueT0mW: they just got the bluestreak along with all existing contracts
20:35.32T0mWprolly
20:37.04T0mWprpplague: they probably got the contractual commits that the loss of that facility would hhave made to Sharp.  Sharp wouldn't have been able to continue production, so, NXP may have to finish them out.
20:37.07prpplagueT0mW: yea i've been in contact with out nxp rep
20:37.31prpplagueT0mW: yea, that is the case
20:37.47prpplagueT0mW: there is still 8 years remaining a giant contract with mattel/fisherprice
20:39.00T0mWprpplague: I cannot imagine just what intellectual property could have been in the deal.  It must have just been the facility itself that they were after, Bluestreak was all someone else's IP (AFAICT) that Sharp blended together to make a unique device offering.
20:39.31prpplagueT0mW: nxp didn't have a line of arm cores that had intergrated LCD controllers
20:39.38prpplagueT0mW: that was the primary driving force
20:40.10T0mWprpplague: whew!  8 year contract!   Mattel must be pretty confident of their direction with electronics to have done that.
20:40.34prpplagueT0mW: it was the $$
20:40.46prpplagueT0mW: sharp was hurting on their bluestreak sales
20:40.51T0mWnod
20:40.55prpplagueT0mW: they had a ton of production costs
20:41.01prpplagueT0mW: so they were willing to bargain
20:41.31T0mWprpplague: Sharp was in trouble because Tom Walsh wouldn't design them into any of his new projects (sic).
20:41.42T0mWprpplague: nor would Dave Anders
20:42.07prpplaguehehe
20:42.09prpplagueindeed
20:42.31prpplagueT0mW: the nxp rep was like "uh how do you know all this about the bluestreak"
20:42.59T0mWprpplague: not that you or I would ever have such power, just that we probably are representative of the industry attitude towards the Sharp linecard.
20:43.26T0mWprpplague: heh, "because it is all over the IRC chat channels"
20:43.51T0mWprpplague: "everybody is laughing about the deal"
20:45.16T0mWprpplague: I pretty much told that customer, that I was to design the Samsung S3C2410 system for, goodbye.
20:45.42T0mWprpplague: 12 months have gone by and I've only been able to spend 4.5 months on that project.
20:46.15T0mWprpplague: he kept giving me other crap that "needed to be done right away" and I got fed up with it.
20:48.35T0mWGPSFan: http://openzipit.org/Development/OpenZipit/files/OpenEmbedded/Makefile
20:49.12T0mWGPSFan: that will build an OE zipit distro, download that, make a dir and put the makefile in there, then type 'make'
20:50.09ds2next question is... what is the procedure for aquiring a zipit unit =)
20:50.57T0mWds2: ebay
20:51.36T0mWds2: then add the 5 wire serial mod and the MMC/SD card mod.
20:52.21T0mWds2: or, install one of these: http://www.openzipit.org/Addon_Board/images/AddonV3Quarter.gif
20:57.49ds2nice
21:00.02T0mWds2: thanks
21:01.02ds2you designed the board?
21:02.39*** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-26-24.westend.de)
21:07.04*** join/#edev cbrake_away (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net)
21:34.08T0mWds2: yes
21:39.15GPSFanT0mW: thanks...
21:46.07*** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-26-24.westend.de)
21:53.56ds2so many tempting toys... so little time and so little space in the toy chest :(
22:14.17*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp068.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)
22:56.03*** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-208-191-58-75.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net)
23:08.16*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp067.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.