| 01:07.55 | *** join/#edev savadda (n=na@dsl-220-235-167-175.wa.westnet.com.au) |
| 01:08.11 | savadda | hi, is there a similar channel for mips based hardware? |
| 01:16.21 | Exiles | adev? |
| 01:16.49 | Exiles | no clue |
| 01:17.06 | Exiles | nope |
| 01:17.41 | Exiles | but people in the channel can still help |
| 01:29.25 | savadda | ok cool |
| 01:29.37 | savadda | umm basically im trying to compile a program for a mips based processor |
| 01:29.57 | savadda | im using the uclibc native development toolchain |
| 01:30.32 | savadda | basically im not sure where im meant to put the source code once ive mounted the root_fs_mips.ext2 file system |
| 01:35.19 | Exiles | usally, from what I know. "I dont know alot right now so I may not be right" you compile off binarys that are already on your system and theres no need to mount the filesystem from for device your working with. |
| 01:41.56 | savadda | hrm see the thing is, im trying to build a program called nepenthes |
| 01:42.03 | savadda | all ive got is the source code |
| 01:48.03 | jbevren | that's my understanding |
| 01:48.40 | jbevren | my memory's old since its been a while, but you just set the sourceball to compile for the other arch and it'll use the cross chain installed by uclinux |
| 01:49.03 | jbevren | if you have a configure script, use ./configure --help to determine how to crossbuild the package |
| 01:49.23 | jbevren | I did that with one application while crossbuilding for myt zipit |
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| 02:26.00 | savadda | ahh |
| 02:26.06 | savadda | ok i did use ./configure |
| 02:26.11 | savadda | but i get this stupid error |
| 02:26.21 | savadda | something about not being able to determine the system to build for |
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| 13:05.20 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of hacking small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based |
| 13:16.52 | *** join/#edev Chocobo (n=swinchen@strongbad.eece.maine.edu) |
| 13:44.52 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=billybob@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
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| 14:06.55 | chouimat | morning |
| 14:07.11 | chouimat | http://userfriendly.org |
| 14:46.59 | CosmicPenguin | damn - left my headphones on all weekend |
| 14:47.04 | CosmicPenguin | now I get no music |
| 14:47.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: doh |
| 14:47.30 | prpplague | ~lart CosmicPenguin |
| 14:47.30 | purl | hits CosmicPenguin with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha |
| 14:51.18 | prpplague | lordy, wish i could afford to go to the arm devcon |
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| 15:17.21 | *** join/#edev brad_mssw (n=brad@shop.monetra.com) |
| 15:22.03 | brad_mssw | if they only had a cdma version .... |
| 15:22.34 | brad_mssw | nothing is worth going back to Cingular/AT&T |
| 15:45.58 | agaffney | brad_mssw: I've been with them for 5 years or so and haven't had a problem |
| 15:46.34 | brad_mssw | yeah, think it's mainly my area |
| 15:46.44 | brad_mssw | on game day, you can't make or receive calls at all |
| 15:46.56 | agaffney | wow |
| 15:46.57 | brad_mssw | constantly get all circuits busy |
| 15:47.06 | brad_mssw | even when it's not game day |
| 15:47.09 | agaffney | I've never had that problem here in St. Louis |
| 15:47.28 | brad_mssw | Gainesville, FL we do :/ |
| 15:47.39 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@hc652173f.dhcp.vt.edu) |
| 15:56.47 | chouimat|happy | brad_mssw: even if I want I won't be able to go with them ... wrong country :) |
| 15:58.21 | brad_mssw | chouimat|happy: heh, all the better then ;) |
| 16:06.05 | Crofton | what is a good hourly rate for embedded work? |
| 16:06.08 | prpplague | argh, i'm so behind on work, and its a typical monday morning where nothing is working right |
| 16:06.18 | prpplague | Crofton: varies |
| 16:06.22 | Crofton | right |
| 16:06.24 | Crofton | range? |
| 16:06.29 | prpplague | Crofton: depends on the part of the country |
| 16:06.40 | Crofton | I assume hi for annoying short term, lower for more stable |
| 16:06.48 | brad_mssw | are you talking hardware or software work? |
| 16:06.51 | Crofton | bah, we live in a global society |
| 16:06.55 | Crofton | software |
| 16:06.55 | prpplague | Crofton: based on what i've seen, min is around $40 per hour upwards to $200 |
| 16:07.20 | brad_mssw | think $100-$150 is pretty common in the US |
| 16:07.25 | prpplague | Crofton: all kind of depends on the type of work, the schedule, how routine the work is |
| 16:07.30 | Crofton | yeah |
| 16:07.39 | Crofton | but $125 is a good starting point |
| 16:08.07 | Crofton | lower for several months of work |
| 16:08.12 | brad_mssw | yeah, that's reasonable, just keep good track of your hours, because if they think it's taking too long, you need accountability |
| 16:08.14 | prpplague | Crofton: without more info of the type of work, i'd say yes |
| 16:08.23 | Crofton | that is all I need |
| 16:08.27 | Crofton | some rough calibration |
| 16:22.02 | prpplague | Crofton: you still doing some OMAP dev? |
| 16:25.05 | Crofton | some |
| 16:25.31 | prpplague | Crofton: what version of gcc are you using for your cross compile? |
| 16:25.55 | Crofton | 4.1.2 atm |
| 16:26.19 | prpplague | Crofton: that seem pretty stable? |
| 16:26.57 | prpplague | 3.4.6 seems to be giving me problems |
| 16:29.59 | Crofton | seems to be |
| 16:30.11 | Crofton | I think we use it on a number of machines |
| 16:30.19 | Crofton | ppc toolchain in OE may be funny |
| 16:31.21 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, using buildroot |
| 16:39.00 | Crofton | I know you are a buildroot kind of guy :) |
| 16:40.48 | prpplague | Crofton: unfortunately we will be needing OE for our next handheld |
| 16:41.04 | Crofton | heh |
| 16:41.05 | prpplague | Crofton: so in the comming months, i'll have to try yet again to get OE up and running |
| 16:41.14 | Crofton | It won't be that bad |
| 16:41.29 | Crofton | and you know who to ask for help |
| 16:41.43 | prpplague | Crofton: well i know who not to ask for help |
| 16:41.52 | Crofton | I just got it running on a brand new Fedora 7 box |
| 16:41.55 | Crofton | heh |
| 16:42.15 | prpplague | Crofton: oh nice, that was always a big problem i had with OE |
| 16:42.30 | prpplague | Crofton: it took an act of god to get running on redhat/fedora |
| 16:42.34 | Crofton | "getting started" is getting pretty good |
| 16:42.58 | Crofton | the insane class is running checks for missing utilities at start up |
| 16:44.03 | Crofton | all supporting packages were installed via yum, even monotone |
| 16:44.15 | Crofton | and it helps I have done this a few times :) |
| 16:44.16 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, OE just seemed to use alot of utils that aren't part of the standard install on my most distros |
| 16:44.25 | prpplague | Crofton: ahh |
| 16:44.44 | MothaWork | prpplague: I heard back from a CAM engineer at 4pcb. They insist that they cannot handle a 0.8mm BGA and that anybody who does it through them is violating at least one spec (from your description, you're violating the annular ring spec) |
| 16:45.02 | prpplague | interesting |
| 16:45.02 | MothaWork | their suggestion was 4/4 trace/space with 8/18 vias |
| 16:45.11 | MothaWork | which they cannot make, but they know people who can |
| 16:45.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: i've got a meeting with our head EE today, i'll ask about it |
| 16:45.47 | MothaWork | I know they will run boards with annular ring violations "as is" but they won't be responsible if it doesn't pass electrical test |
| 16:46.02 | MothaWork | ok |
| 16:46.05 | prpplague | MonMotha: it may be that our layout guy doesn't know exactly where we order the bga pcvs from |
| 16:46.12 | MothaWork | I'd be interested to see hear how people are having these made |
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| 17:14.22 | MothaWork | I've got this thing brought out fully on a 6 layer board at 4/4, 8/18 |
| 17:14.42 | MothaWork | which I think isn't too bad for an 18x18 grid with no center cutout |
| 17:31.05 | chouimat|happy | wow I found 3 Trio64V2/DX cleaning my office |
| 18:20.22 | ds2 | what about having a blind via right under the ball? and just vary the depth of the via? |
| 18:23.41 | Crofton | is way out of touch with pcb layout .... |
| 18:53.53 | MothaWork | ds2: I was under the impression that blind vias are rather expensive |
| 18:55.48 | MothaWork | a lot of people seem to use 5/5 but laser drilled microvias (which are usually blind to the next layer only) to do this pitch BGA |
| 19:15.50 | ds2 | having no one admit they can do it reliably seems just as expensive ;) |
| 19:26.40 | steliosk | has anyone seen any sram based usb dongle (not flash) |
| 20:07.37 | MothaWork | ds2: good point |
| 20:07.55 | MothaWork | I'm not sure what the pricing is like for more layers as compared to blind vias as compared to 4 mil trace/space |
| 20:08.03 | prpplague | steliosk: no, but it would be easy to do |
| 20:08.18 | prpplague | steliosk: why would you want one though? |
| 20:08.25 | MothaWork | but the math agrees: it is impossible to fan out a 0.8mm BGA at 5/5 with 18 mil via pads |
| 20:09.20 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea |
| 20:09.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: i did confirm we did NOT use 4pcb.com for our protos |
| 20:09.48 | prpplague | MonMotha: it was a local company that did it |
| 20:10.01 | prpplague | MonMotha: it was 5/5 with 10 mill vias and 16.5 mill pads |
| 20:10.48 | MothaWork | ok, you found a company that could handle small annular rings on vias |
| 20:11.10 | prpplague | yea |
| 20:11.28 | MothaWork | cost isn't a huge factor on this thing, but I'd still like to keep the PCB itself as inexpensive as possible |
| 20:11.36 | prpplague | aparently they specialize in bga with multilayer |
| 20:11.51 | prpplague | i'll see if can get you their info |
| 20:12.31 | MothaWork | I really don't know why people find 0.8mm necessary |
| 20:12.56 | MothaWork | it wouldn't be a whole lot bigger at 1mm, and then you can bring it out using most fabrication houses |
| 20:13.00 | prpplague | i really don't know why people find 0.4 mill necessary |
| 20:14.14 | MothaWork | well, 8 mil seems to be a common minimum drill size (for non laser drilled holes), and most places seem to want the pad at least 10mil bigger |
| 20:14.30 | MothaWork | so for a 0.8mm BGA, you need 4 mil trace/space |
| 20:14.37 | MothaWork | unless you can compromise on something else |
| 20:34.38 | prpplague | ho ho hum, the new checksyscalls.sh is giving me headaches |
| 20:59.24 | Exiles | does anyone have any use of XILINX XCV1000 BG560AFG021 FPGA'S? |
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