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| 01:20.27 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: so, now that you have yur phone, what have you discovered about it? |
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| 01:55.59 | ds2 | anyone follow the bluez stuff? |
| 02:02.28 | CP|too | Whats to follow? |
| 02:05.05 | ds2 | like what's the difference between the stuff in bluez vs the stuff in the plugz repository for a2dp audio for one |
| 02:05.27 | ds2 | can't seem to find a statement as to which is newer code |
| 02:11.32 | CP|too | That depends on your point of view |
| 02:12.05 | CP|too | The bluez stuff is probably more correct, but as far as I'm concerned, it lags far behind the alsa-bluetooth code in functionality |
| 02:12.18 | CP|too | Its going to take quite a lot to convince me to switch over |
| 02:15.55 | ds2 | cool thanks... I "discovered" the bluez version after getting the plugz versions working |
| 02:33.27 | joe_bleau | Man, iTunes for winblows sucks hard. |
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| 10:29.53 | jbevren | http://www.csr.com/products/unifiport_over.htm |
| 10:29.59 | jbevren | neat one-chip wifi |
| 10:42.15 | howtoo | sweet |
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| 12:00.23 | cbrake | jbevren: but, can you actually get this chip without committing to 10M pieces per year ... |
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| 12:40.47 | Daemyn | hello |
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| 13:00.00 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=DaveAnde@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:00.59 | brad_mssw | prpplague: you said your company does custom pcb design and device manufacturing, right? |
| 13:02.11 | prpplague | brad_mssw: yea, not for the general public though |
| 13:02.28 | prpplague | mostly b2b |
| 13:02.49 | brad_mssw | right |
| 13:03.12 | brad_mssw | this is for business, not some personal project |
| 13:04.29 | brad_mssw | we have a client looking to deploy in january ... I have no idea if that's even a feasible timeframe to have something spec'd out, manufactured, and deployed |
| 13:04.49 | brad_mssw | i don't know what type of lead time is typically involved for the different steps, etc |
| 13:04.58 | prpplague | brad_mssw: ahh, our focus is mainly focus on mobile devices |
| 13:04.59 | brad_mssw | for probably 5k units |
| 13:05.11 | prpplague | brad_mssw: that short of a time frame is going to cost $$$$ |
| 13:05.32 | brad_mssw | yeah, that's what I figured, anything is possible given $ |
| 13:05.45 | prpplague | yea |
| 13:05.57 | brad_mssw | problem is they're really not wanting to spend more than $200-$250/unit |
| 13:07.17 | brad_mssw | probably leaves them with going semi-custom ... try to find something off the shelf that doesn't require many modifications, and make compromises on features |
| 13:07.52 | prpplague | brad_mssw: without knowing more, i'd have no way of knowing if thats reasonable of course, we probably could not fit it into our schedule as we have two major projects to complete by feb2008 |
| 13:08.10 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:08.56 | brad_mssw | yeah, understandable ... they're wanting us to play consultant in the middle, but we're just software guys ... we're trying to tell them the hardware is their responsibility |
| 13:10.33 | prpplague | chouimat: morning |
| 13:11.28 | prpplague | brad_mssw: if you can send me some details on what kind of hardware you are looking for i can see if can point you in the right direction, f2f(friend-2-friend) hehe |
| 13:12.00 | prpplague | brad_mssw: danders@amltd.com |
| 13:12.59 | brad_mssw | prpplague: I can just blurt out the specs in here probably, unless you'd prefer e-mail |
| 13:14.39 | prpplague | brad_mssw: as long as you feel ok as a public declaration |
| 13:17.25 | Crofton | isn't friend to friend networking a crime? |
| 13:17.26 | brad_mssw | min requirements: runs linux (200-400Mhz arm should be fine), 32MB RAM, CF or SD (bootable if possible), dial-up modem (14.4 is sufficient), internal serial console header, external aux RS232 serial, external USB Host, 10/100 ethernet ... its for deployment into a nationwide fastfood chain as a payment server for legacy systems |
| 13:19.08 | brad_mssw | a second 10/100 ethernet would be nice, but not required |
| 13:19.28 | brad_mssw | the main catch that's been hard to deal with has been the requirement of a modem |
| 13:19.49 | brad_mssw | I see a 'socketmodem' standard, but finding devices which support it is difficult |
| 13:20.15 | prpplague | brad_mssw: yea, the best solution for that would be the use of a TinyModem, the cost is fairly high(around $35.00) but worth it |
| 13:20.26 | brad_mssw | our demo unit was a soekris net4801 simply because it provided a pci slot we could fit a modem into |
| 13:20.39 | prpplague | http://www.radi.com/modular51.htm |
| 13:20.57 | prpplague | brad_mssw: the 10/100 nics are going to be the primary problem with arm |
| 13:21.06 | prpplague | brad_mssw: you may have to go to a MIPS based design |
| 13:21.22 | brad_mssw | that's fine, nothing we run really requires any particular architecture |
| 13:21.42 | brad_mssw | that tinymodem looks similar to the multitech RJModem I've seen around |
| 13:22.23 | brad_mssw | do mips chips usually have built-in ethernet? |
| 13:23.58 | brad_mssw | I also thought one of intel's ixp arm processors provided built-in ethernet for some reason |
| 13:25.22 | prpplague | ixp stuff has alot of licenseing issues |
| 13:25.46 | brad_mssw | yeah, thought I remembered something about a binary blob or something to enable the ethernet |
| 13:25.57 | prpplague | brad_mssw: mips tends to be an arch design for stationary applications which require 10/100 connections, so it is generally thought of for that type of application |
| 13:26.24 | prpplague | brad_mssw: you might be able to find an off the shelf mips device with close specs |
| 13:26.42 | prpplague | brad_mssw: if you do it with arm, you are going to get expensive quick, imho |
| 13:26.55 | brad_mssw | hmm, well, mips sounds promising then |
| 13:27.27 | prpplague | brad_mssw: might ask around on #mips-linux |
| 13:27.48 | brad_mssw | cool, thanks for the advice .. I hadn't even looked at mips to tell you the truth |
| 13:27.58 | prpplague | hehe , np |
| 13:27.59 | brad_mssw | mainly geode and arm ... and a little ppc |
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| 13:38.01 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 13:38.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: just about got all the basic build stuff working for the Hammer, gonna burn a cd this afternoon |
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| 14:26.51 | ccjoe | brad_mssw, I have an existing MIPs board using the Raza Alchemy Au1500 that could work, we would just have to do a 2 layer board for the I/O. |
| 14:27.54 | ccjoe | It would be a 2 board stack probably about 120mm x 140mm |
| 14:29.04 | ccjoe | Or we have a partially finished Au1210 design that could be adapted to a custom design and be low cost. |
| 14:31.10 | ccjoe | The Au1500 option could be used for prototyping with minimal software changes compared to the Au1210. |
| 14:33.57 | brad_mssw | hmm |
| 14:34.50 | brad_mssw | trying to find info on au1500 vs au1210 |
| 14:39.38 | ccjoe | yea, raza doesn't make it real easy |
| 14:39.47 | ccjoe | http://www.razamicroelectronics.com/ |
| 14:40.03 | brad_mssw | yeah, I'm at that site |
| 14:41.06 | ccjoe | I meant to say Au1550 above |
| 14:41.27 | ccjoe | http://www.razamicroelectronics.com/products_alchemy/au1550_overview.htm |
| 14:41.54 | ccjoe | http://www.razamicroelectronics.com/products_alchemy/au1210_overview2.htm |
| 14:42.36 | brad_mssw | so you have a custom board based off those processors? |
| 14:43.03 | ccjoe | yes, the Au1550 is existing |
| 14:43.18 | brad_mssw | yeah , the 1550 seems plenty sufficient |
| 14:43.37 | ccjoe | we are in layout on an Au1200, that we could customize to match what you need |
| 14:44.11 | brad_mssw | does it support CF or SD? |
| 14:44.12 | ccjoe | Au1550 ~$40, Au1200 ~$12; for the chip |
| 14:44.41 | brad_mssw | I see the 1210 says ide, so that's compatible with CF |
| 14:45.10 | ccjoe | Au1200 does SD directly |
| 14:45.33 | ccjoe | our in-process design has uSD on board |
| 14:45.43 | brad_mssw | the largest complicating factor for us seems to be having a modem |
| 14:46.02 | ccjoe | using a tiny modem looks easy |
| 14:47.06 | brad_mssw | well, that's good to hear (no clue personally, not a hardware guy) |
| 14:47.41 | brad_mssw | so the au1210 is probably the way to go from a cost perspective, no? |
| 14:48.29 | ccjoe | yes if they are planning to build more than a few |
| 14:48.42 | brad_mssw | we're looking at probably 5k units |
| 14:48.44 | GPSFan | prpplague: sounds good, you going to ship this week? |
| 14:49.46 | ccjoe | brad_mssw, then Au1200 for sure |
| 14:50.54 | brad_mssw | you said you have the au1550 in production, on a software level is that compatible ... meaning if we needed to do some testing, could we purchase one of those boards for some dev work |
| 14:51.08 | brad_mssw | and use basically the same software stack on the au1210? |
| 14:52.08 | ccjoe | yes the au1550 is in production, I could get you one for testing in a few days |
| 14:52.45 | ccjoe | it would take a couple of weeks to do a 2 layer I/O board to go with it that had the modem and other interfaces you need |
| 14:53.04 | brad_mssw | what is on the base board? |
| 14:53.12 | brad_mssw | (as for connectors) |
| 14:53.27 | brad_mssw | or does it require a I/O board to provide interfaces? |
| 14:53.52 | brad_mssw | ... better yet, got a picture of it online anywhere ? |
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| 14:58.13 | ccjoe | Yes, a rather poor picture is here http://clearcore.com/portfolio/au1550.html |
| 14:59.18 | brad_mssw | ah, ok, so it definitely requires an i/o board :) |
| 14:59.28 | ccjoe | yes |
| 15:00.26 | brad_mssw | so I see the SD slot right on there though |
| 15:00.34 | brad_mssw | specs on it seem right |
| 15:01.58 | brad_mssw | do you have any real loose ballpark $ figures on this board in qty ? (nothing we'd hold you to) |
| 15:02.00 | ccjoe | I have an I/O board I could send you that would get you started, then a custom I/O board shortly that would prototype all your specific needs |
| 15:03.31 | brad_mssw | What's the I/O board got on it? Just ethernet, RS232 serial, and a power connector? |
| 15:04.22 | ccjoe | very roughly! ~$200-$250, maybe less once I know what we can leave off it |
| 15:04.50 | ccjoe | yes, plus usb |
| 15:06.32 | ccjoe | brad_mssw, and in 5k unit quantity I'm sure it would be much less |
| 15:08.00 | brad_mssw | your "rough" estimate include a case and power supply, or is that board-only ? |
| 15:09.13 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea probably today |
| 15:09.29 | ccjoe | brad_mssw, board-only, but it can use a cheap wall wart for a power supply and a cheap box |
| 15:10.33 | brad_mssw | ccjoe: now the 1210 you said would be about $30 cheaper, just talking the processor, right? |
| 15:10.38 | ccjoe | but don't take the price to seriously, I really need to do some checking and give you an accurate price before you make decisions based on it |
| 15:10.44 | ccjoe | yes just the processor |
| 15:11.13 | brad_mssw | ccjoe: yeah, I know, not basing any decision on it here |
| 15:11.16 | ccjoe | a custom board would be cheaper that the 2 board stack also |
| 15:11.42 | brad_mssw | really? wouldn't have thought that actually |
| 15:13.00 | brad_mssw | how long does it typically take to have a production-ready product? |
| 15:13.07 | brad_mssw | our customer is looking for deployment in january |
| 15:13.13 | ccjoe | the Au1550 would be less risk, and could be finished very quickly |
| 15:14.12 | ccjoe | production ready depends a lot on the software too, so it is a little hard to say |
| 15:14.28 | brad_mssw | we use buildroot with uclibc for the base system |
| 15:14.47 | brad_mssw | as long as there's not a compatibility issue there, I think we're fine |
| 15:14.57 | ccjoe | we have buildroot and uclibc up on the board now |
| 15:15.34 | brad_mssw | my only other concern is that I've never used openssl on mips |
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| 15:15.56 | brad_mssw | and we heavily depend on openssl, though I'm sure it probably works fine |
| 15:16.22 | ccjoe | I haven't used openssl so I don't know |
| 15:17.03 | brad_mssw | they've got C implementations of everything, and optimized assembly implementations for a lot of platforms ... so if I run into issues, I can always fallback to the C implementations |
| 15:17.26 | brad_mssw | not very concerned about it |
| 15:17.31 | ccjoe | okay |
| 15:18.12 | brad_mssw | let me talk to a few people around here and see if we want to go ahead and get a dev board |
| 15:18.25 | ccjoe | brad_mssw, okay thanks |
| 15:18.29 | brad_mssw | do you have an e-mail address I can contact you about? |
| 15:18.40 | ccjoe | joeg@clearcore.com |
| 15:20.14 | brad_mssw | thanks |
| 15:21.04 | brad_mssw | btw, do you work with any companies on case design/manufacturing with your products, or do you leave that up to the customers of your products? |
| 15:21.23 | ccjoe | either way is fine |
| 15:22.14 | brad_mssw | also, can uboot on mips boot directly from the SD card? |
| 15:22.39 | brad_mssw | instead of using the onboard flash |
| 15:23.01 | brad_mssw | (we boot directly from CF on gumstix using uboot, so I'd think it would probably be possible) |
| 15:23.03 | ccjoe | we haven't done that, I'd have to look at it |
| 15:23.19 | ccjoe | probably could |
| 15:23.25 | brad_mssw | ... though it appears to be a requirement that the device is FAT formatted |
| 15:23.34 | brad_mssw | as it uses some fatload commands, etc |
| 15:23.48 | brad_mssw | cool, anyhow, I'll be in touch, thankx |
| 15:24.12 | brad_mssw | s/x/s/ |
| 15:24.12 | ccjoe | okay |
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| 17:42.11 | GPSFan | prpplague: are you going to have an online SVN/CVS/GIT repository available for the hammer code? |
| 17:43.41 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea cvs, working on making it available to the outside world now |
| 17:59.36 | GPSFan | prpplague: ;>) |
| 18:19.22 | Crofton|home | cvs .... |
| 18:23.27 | prpplague | hmm |
| 18:23.54 | prpplague | i can see events with debugging enabled, but nothing is showing up |
| 18:27.41 | prpplague | shouldn't i be able to cat /dev/input/eventX and see the event info? |
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| 18:52.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ping |
| 18:58.50 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: pong |
| 18:59.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: when doing an input device, shouldn't you be able to cat /dev/input/eventX and get data when an event occures? |
| 19:01.31 | CosmicPenguin | depends on the type of event |
| 19:03.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: keyboard event, i can see the events in the log |
| 19:03.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but i don't see anything on the /dev/input/eventX |
| 19:06.23 | CosmicPenguin | what are you using to read the bytes? |
| 19:09.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just doing a cat from command line |
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| 19:23.05 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.frogmouth.net/hid-doco/c537.html |
| 19:23.10 | CosmicPenguin | Try example 10 |
| 19:28.08 | prpplague | ahh ok so you can't cat the event |
| 19:30.43 | prpplague | yea that works |
| 19:35.35 | CosmicPenguin | It looks for a specific read size, I belive |
| 19:35.42 | prpplague | ahh |
| 19:35.59 | prpplague | makes it a pain from command line |
| 19:36.19 | CosmicPenguin | yes - but to be fair, it was never implemented as a command line protocol |
| 19:36.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed, just trying to make it easier for command line people, hehe |
| 19:36.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: thanks for the info |
| 19:36.55 | CosmicPenguin | not a problem |
| 19:37.06 | CosmicPenguin | THat URL is chock full of useful stuff |
| 19:37.12 | CosmicPenguin | ioctls() and stuff |
| 19:48.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just find the events functionality and sysfs not doing what i need to do |
| 20:01.57 | chouimat | hmmm i'm bored |
| 20:04.01 | chouimat | prpplague: if you plan to support it I have no problem with it ;) |
| 20:05.23 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe, yea, always |
| 20:21.56 | chouimat | prpplague: I heard something about software yesterday: Code is like a child no matter how it's screwed you have to support it :) |
| 20:25.32 | prpplague | atleast till its 17 |
| 20:26.08 | chouimat | hehe ... some place it's 30 if still in school :) |
| 20:27.38 | prpplague | chouimat: uh, no way |
| 20:27.54 | chouimat | prpplague: I know a place like this |
| 20:27.55 | prpplague | chouimat: at 17 my sons out the door |
| 20:28.05 | prpplague | chouimat: 18 at the latest |
| 20:30.42 | ds2 | out the door or into uncle sam's hands? |
| 20:32.17 | chouimat | ds2: this remind me of a robot chicken episode :) |
| 20:32.25 | ds2 | ???? |
| 20:34.22 | prpplague | out the door |
| 20:56.57 | jbevren | choui: nice |
| 20:57.25 | chouimat | jbevren: hmmm? |
| 20:58.49 | chouimat|away | pub time!!! |
| 21:00.14 | prpplague | wahoo\ |
| 21:00.32 | prpplague | well crap |
| 21:00.40 | prpplague | i can't figure out why this isn't executing |
| 22:06.47 | prpplague | ~seen pb_ |
| 22:06.52 | purl | pb_ <n=pb@2002:5247:cbc1:1:290:27ff:fee5:85c2> was last seen on IRC in channel #handhelds.org, 134d 4h 31m 17s ago, saying: 'bd2: hi'. |
| 22:06.59 | prpplague | ~seen pb__ |
| 22:07.00 | purl | pb__ <n=pb@88-110-49-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 134d 2h 24m 44s ago, saying: 'dunno. it's hard to imagine what real problem it would cause.'. |
| 22:07.11 | prpplague | ~seen pb___ |
| 22:07.12 | purl | pb___ <n=ich@88.134.3.107> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 465d 3h 2m 12s ago, saying: 'I fully agree with what zecke said...'. |
| 22:07.54 | prpplague | funny how you see less and less of the guru's on freenode |
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| 23:24.20 | CosmicPenguin | grr |
| 23:24.31 | CosmicPenguin | You can't export arrays in bash |
| 23:24.34 | CosmicPenguin | thats not useful |
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