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| 13:45.07 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 13:45.12 | prpplague | merry freakin friday!!! |
| 13:45.31 | dbtid | yo ho ho |
| 13:45.37 | dbtid | where's the bottle of rum? |
| 13:45.45 | dbtid | did you all take part in int'l talk like a pirate day??? |
| 13:45.48 | dbtid | sept 19 |
| 13:46.45 | prpplague | sorry no, and as far as rum goes, i've had my fill of it back in barbados |
| 13:48.18 | prpplague | ~seen Exiles |
| 13:48.20 | purl | exiles <i=wired57@is.a.unixwhore.info> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 22d 15h 18m 10s ago, saying: 'I want a massaging tolet'. |
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| 15:24.23 | chouimat|ibook | morning |
| 15:31.10 | cbrake | prpplague: do any of the SD host controllers out there conform to the sdcard.org host controller specification yet? |
| 15:34.42 | orb1t | hi, can anybody help me with building buildroot toolchain for arm922t with softfloat ? |
| 15:36.03 | orb1t | I've replaced t-linu with t-arm-elf in gcc-4.0.4/gcc/config/arm, and now getting: |
| 15:36.18 | orb1t | checking for main in -lm... configure: error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES. |
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| 18:44.18 | prpplague | cbrake: there are a few, but not many |
| 18:44.41 | prpplague | cbrake: it's my understanding the CaFe chip from marvell does have a compliant sdio hc |
| 18:45.03 | prpplague | cbrake: the wi2wi guys are suppose to come do a demo next wed |
| 18:45.19 | cbrake | prpplague: interesting. Let us know how it goes. |
| 18:47.46 | prpplague | cbrake: will do |
| 18:48.14 | cbrake | prpplague: working through the AT91SAM9260 sdio controller now -- been awhile since I messed with this stuff ... |
| 18:48.50 | prpplague | cbrake: hmm, seems like i heard there some issue with the sdio controller on that |
| 18:49.08 | cbrake | prpplague: really, that would be good information to know ... |
| 18:51.47 | prpplague | the attitude of some of these kernel maintainers just so amazing |
| 18:54.05 | cbrake | prpplague: may I should ask on the AKML if anyone has used the 9260 sdio controller |
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| 18:54.47 | prpplague | cbrake: i'd check the LAK archives first, seems like there was alot of posting on 9260 |
| 18:55.33 | cbrake | prpplague: ok, thanks |
| 18:56.29 | prpplague | i am more and more convinced that we are going to see a kernel fork soon |
| 19:04.58 | chouimat|ibook | hmmm? |
| 19:07.23 | prpplague | chouimat|ibook: ?? whatcha hmmm'n about? |
| 19:08.24 | cbrake | prpplague: when someone tears my work apart, I usually thank them for the review :-) |
| 19:10.25 | prpplague | cbrake: indeed i like a good review on the quality of work, what i don't like is them dictating what is and isn't useful |
| 19:10.51 | cbrake | prpplague: I guess I'm more of a generalist anyway -- helping customer use a wide variety of Linux pieces |
| 19:11.02 | cbrake | prpplague: nod, agreed. |
| 19:12.19 | prpplague | cbrake: the other problem is that many of the maintainers are just ignoring patches |
| 19:13.06 | prpplague | cbrake: there is a giant flamefest going on over this - http://lists.arm.linux.org.uk/pipermail/linux-arm-kernel/2007-October/042397.html |
| 19:13.51 | prpplague | cbrake: i submitted a patch literally years ago to have the initramfs check bypassed as part of the kernel args, i.e. similiar to argment for jiffie values |
| 19:14.39 | prpplague | cbrake: instead of accepting a useful modification, all they can do is complain about "correct way" |
| 19:16.13 | cbrake | prpplague: yeah, I see your point |
| 19:21.51 | chouimat|ibook | prpplague: the world is full of those "correct wayist" but they aren't helping when their "correct way" is buggy ;) |
| 19:22.18 | prpplague | chouimat|ibook: indeed |
| 19:23.28 | chouimat|ibook | prpplague: and they don't explain at all why initramfs is the correct way :) |
| 19:25.33 | prpplague | chouimat|ibook: what bothers me, is they want people to use linux in their devices, but yet they expect companies to change their products at the drop of hat when the "correct way" of doing things changes |
| 19:26.04 | prpplague | chouimat|ibook: i.e. /proc is now no long the correct way and they want people to use /sys |
| 19:26.44 | chouimat|ibook | prpplague: I know ... but they have to realise that those kind of change will take time to get into the "corporate world" ... |
| 19:27.39 | chouimat|ibook | prpplague: and the only this happens is like I did for one of my embedded product is to reach the limit of the current design and implementation |
| 19:34.35 | ds2 | a fork is long overdue |
| 19:36.15 | MothaWork | bork bork fork! |
| 19:46.20 | CosmicPenguin | Thats completely missing the point 100% |
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| 19:49.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: on which issue? |
| 19:49.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: which statement is missing the point? |
| 19:51.58 | CosmicPenguin | I don't see why this is forcing you to change at a drop of a hat |
| 19:52.03 | CosmicPenguin | you're not changing anything |
| 19:52.25 | CosmicPenguin | other then I guess your mental state |
| 19:52.33 | CosmicPenguin | but they never said - port this from /proc or die! |
| 19:52.45 | CosmicPenguin | they said - if its new, it goes into /sys - and I think thats a very reasonable thing to ask |
| 19:54.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the problem i have is that we have hundreds of programs that are geared towards the usage of proc as well manuals, presentations, and training for vendors |
| 19:55.09 | CosmicPenguin | and not a single word of that changes |
| 19:55.18 | CosmicPenguin | /proc/acpi will out live us all |
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| 19:55.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: how do you figure? if we are to do it "the right way" all of the new products will have /sys entries |
| 19:55.55 | CosmicPenguin | sure |
| 19:56.08 | CosmicPenguin | So why do you have to re-teach anybody? |
| 19:57.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: because /proc is different that /sys , the whole structure is different, in addition locating specific items is far more difficult |
| 19:57.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: 90% of our ISV's have no clue about linux or wince for that matter, they just write gui applications |
| 19:58.05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: they want to know things like "where do i turn the backlight on or off" |
| 19:58.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that location is very different between /proc and /sys |
| 19:58.50 | CosmicPenguin | But if they don't know anything about Linux, then you have to hold their hand anyway |
| 19:59.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but /proc vs. /sys wasn't really my complaint today, its the fact that simple 2 or 3 line changes to help make transitions are being ignored and flamed |
| 19:59.13 | CosmicPenguin | I really don't understand why its different to tell somebody to echo 1 > /proc/led and /sys/class/led/led0 |
| 19:59.29 | CosmicPenguin | If its new, you're going to have to teach it to people regardless |
| 19:59.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not really, we do a basic sdk and they are able to get the items they need |
| 19:59.45 | CosmicPenguin | If you want to complain about things leaving proc and going into sys - then yeah, Ia gree |
| 20:00.41 | CosmicPenguin | But I percieve 0 difference between teaching somebody how to find something in proc and finding something in sys |
| 20:00.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: again my complaint is that the kernel maintainers are not interested in stop gaps to help do the transition |
| 20:00.59 | CosmicPenguin | What stop gaps? |
| 20:01.06 | CosmicPenguin | There isn't a transition |
| 20:01.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that is true, but having to re-teach them to change from /proc to /sys is a difference |
| 20:01.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so there is no transition between ramdisk and initramfs? |
| 20:01.31 | CosmicPenguin | why are they changing? |
| 20:02.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: because legacy products use /proc whereas the new products use /sys , we have two different items to support |
| 20:02.14 | CosmicPenguin | No - thats wrong |
| 20:02.20 | CosmicPenguin | Nobody has ever asked you to do that |
| 20:03.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we have two different items, lets stick with the /proc /sys first |
| 20:04.18 | CosmicPenguin | I don't have time to get into this argument |
| 20:04.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if we are to stick with proc for our work that means we have to do several things,backport /proc entries for existing /sys entries and continue to add custom proc entries for our drivers, either way none if it gets into the main kernel tree |
| 20:04.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sorry, didn't want to argue, just wanted to discuss it |
| 20:05.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: none the less, i find no reason for the kernel people to bad mouth others since they still choose to use ramdisk images |
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| 21:01.04 | chouimat|away | it's friday and it's now PUB TIME |
| 21:01.24 | prpplague | chouimat|away: wheeeeee |
| 21:17.15 | prpplague | davidc__: ping |
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| 23:16.15 | joe_bleau | Anyone use the STR755FV0 (one of ST's arm7 microcontrollers)? |