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| 01:29.48 | flyback | m000 |
| 01:30.28 | flyback | man I just bought some polished granite floor tiles to use as anti static heat resistant surface for soldering etc |
| 01:30.32 | flyback | or testing batteries :P |
| 01:30.36 | flyback | man are they heavy |
| 01:30.53 | agaffney | well, yes, they're made of granite |
| 01:31.09 | flyback | yeah I know |
| 01:31.22 | flyback | I hope marbel wasn't better for this :P |
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| 01:38.13 | flyback | http://www.nomad.ee/micros/etrex.shtml |
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| 12:54.49 | pina | hi |
| 12:54.57 | pina | anyone worked on HDTVS or UHDTV |
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| 14:47.44 | chouimat | morning |
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| 15:19.33 | pina | anyone good with electronics/electrical |
| 15:19.40 | pina | i need a way to make something change angle against resistance that is very simple and very robust |
| 15:19.47 | pina | |electrically or hydraulically activated |
| 15:19.52 | pina | making a ring-shaped structure with propellor-like vanes sticking outward, need to be able to change the incendent angle of the vanes across the whole structure simultaneously |
| 15:20.19 | pina | the entire ring is going to turn in a bearing race, with a diameter of 60-70 feet |
| 15:20.23 | prpplague | pina: probably try the robotics channel, they do more of that kind of stuff |
| 15:20.32 | pina | the entire ring is going to turn in a bearing race, with a diameter of 60-70 feet |
| 15:20.39 | pina | oh awesome |
| 15:20.40 | pina | thanks |
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| 16:10.12 | joe_bleau | Anyone up on: simple embeddedable scripting languages, Cortex M3 under gcc, ST's ARM micros, or good cheap RTC chips? |
| 16:14.00 | jbevren | miniperl? |
| 16:14.02 | jbevren | hehe |
| 16:14.17 | joe_bleau | Here's where I'm coming from on that thought: |
| 16:14.18 | jbevren | didnt someone do microperl for PC bios replacement? |
| 16:14.40 | joe_bleau | in the old days, you had 8 bit home computers with say, 4-16k ram and about the same in rom. |
| 16:14.45 | joe_bleau | They were useable and programmable. |
| 16:14.52 | jbevren | yeah |
| 16:14.57 | jbevren | my vic20 had 16k rom, 3.5k ram |
| 16:15.00 | joe_bleau | These days, microcontrollers (16/32 bitters, mostly) have that much on chip. |
| 16:15.07 | jbevren | most have more :) |
| 16:15.25 | joe_bleau | Sure, but I'm talking about resources *after* the main application is loaded on chip. |
| 16:15.30 | jbevren | so youre looking to put a script language (a-la basic) into a small arm SOC? |
| 16:15.30 | joe_bleau | The 'left-overs', so to speak. |
| 16:15.36 | jbevren | ohhh |
| 16:15.38 | jbevren | gotcha |
| 16:15.41 | joe_bleau | No, hang on. |
| 16:16.06 | joe_bleau | So, I have a product that would benefit from some end-user scripting/customization/programmability. |
| 16:16.26 | joe_bleau | Serial port stuff, maybe a little bit of user interface (prompting, key response stuff). |
| 16:16.39 | jbevren | UI via serial console? |
| 16:16.59 | joe_bleau | There is a user interface: buttons and a single line LCD. |
| 16:17.02 | jbevren | (I dunno why, but even to this day serial console UI is sexy to me) |
| 16:17.05 | jbevren | ok |
| 16:17.14 | joe_bleau | The customization could be done over the serial port, sure. |
| 16:17.19 | joe_bleau | That would be the most logical. |
| 16:17.29 | joe_bleau | Wouldn't have to be interactive. |
| 16:17.39 | jbevren | nod. the IDE would upload the new script.. go on |
| 16:17.40 | joe_bleau | Downloading a script would be acceptable too. |
| 16:17.46 | joe_bleau | Yeah, either way. |
| 16:18.12 | joe_bleau | Rather than attempt to look ahead and try and anticipate all possible needs up front and included |
| 16:18.13 | prpplague | joe_bleau: small-basic works pretty darn well imho |
| 16:18.29 | joe_bleau | options for that stuff in the code, I'm wondering how practical embedded scripting would be. |
| 16:18.31 | jbevren | I"m suddenly reminded of EhBASIC (6502 embedded basic) |
| 16:18.56 | joe_bleau | Somehow it would need to hook into a few place in my main app, to share some data and I/O. |
| 16:19.09 | jbevren | I can see embedded scripting to be pretty convenient for designers |
| 16:19.11 | joe_bleau | No OS, of course, so I'd like to avoid dynamic memory allocation. |
| 16:19.16 | jbevren | specifically, look at basic stamps |
| 16:19.52 | joe_bleau | Yeah, but the stamps don't really co-operate with another app, do they? |
| 16:20.05 | joe_bleau | I thought they were just basic on a chip. |
| 16:20.06 | prpplague | joe_bleau: ahh no os at all? |
| 16:20.10 | jbevren | that sounds closer to CBASIC (MS basic complier for cp/m).. you declare variables at the start of the program, and theyre statically allocated by the compiler |
| 16:20.20 | joe_bleau | microcontroller target. |
| 16:20.32 | jbevren | joe_bleau: no os at all, or a mini-OS for simple memory and IO management? |
| 16:20.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau: when we started working on the hammer board we researched doing something like the parallax stamp |
| 16:20.52 | joe_bleau | I'd prefer no-os at all. Corporate/political reasons. |
| 16:21.01 | jbevren | prpplague: thanks for not doing that ;-) the hammer's too big (imho) for a simpler OS |
| 16:21.03 | joe_bleau | For my app, a super loop will do just fine. |
| 16:21.04 | prpplague | joe_bleau: the thing is, most of the people who would want a more powerful stamp also wanted a more powerful language and os |
| 16:21.23 | prpplague | jbevren: hey, btw you still owe me an email |
| 16:21.31 | jbevren | I do. |
| 16:21.38 | joe_bleau | Oh, this scripting language is more for the very advanced users. 90% would never need or care about it. |
| 16:21.42 | prpplague | jbevren: and if you see exiles he needs to send something as well |
| 16:21.58 | joe_bleau | It's more of a tool to push the custom firmware requests (for modified products) back to the user. |
| 16:21.59 | prpplague | jbevren: remember i need a status update email to provide to the boss along with the others |
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| 16:22.27 | joe_bleau | Think about scripting your watch (Timex did this), your camera (DigitOS did this), or your bench DMM. |
| 16:22.54 | joe_bleau | The autodesk dude has atlast, but I've never heard of anyone using it. |
| 16:23.03 | joe_bleau | I've heard of lua, but no idea how big it is. |
| 16:23.13 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea, probably the best solution would be to use a small nix shell designed around your sepecific application |
| 16:23.19 | joe_bleau | I'll add small-basic to the list. |
| 16:23.51 | prpplague | small-basic requires an os |
| 16:24.09 | joe_bleau | If they could do simple math, string formatting, serial I/O, looping, and some conditionals, that would be a *huge* improvement. |
| 16:24.44 | jbevren | scripting test devices sounds sweet |
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| 16:24.53 | joe_bleau | I think I'd prefer an interpreter, so I don't have to supply any tools. |
| 16:25.04 | jbevren | my freq counter and logic analyzer have ieee488 ports.. I want to eventually get an interface for them |
| 16:25.20 | joe_bleau | Oh, and it would be nice if it had a very friendly license. Can't deal with GPL, obviously. |
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| 16:25.56 | joe_bleau | BSD--Sure would |
| 16:26.28 | joe_bleau | It would be fine for the scripting language to support dynamic alloc, as long as it didn't require it from my system. |
| 16:26.33 | prpplague | joe_bleau: "Can't deal with GPL, obviously." whys that? |
| 16:26.46 | joe_bleau | I want to give it a block of memory and never have to worry about it asking for more. |
| 16:26.52 | joe_bleau | 'Cause I want to sell this product. |
| 16:27.18 | prpplague | joe_bleau: "Can't deal with GPL, obviously." whys that? |
| 16:27.34 | prpplague | what aspect prevents you from selling with GPL? |
| 16:27.46 | joe_bleau | As I understand it, if I use GPL code in a project, I have to provide the source if requested. |
| 16:28.13 | prpplague | right |
| 16:28.16 | prpplague | and? |
| 16:28.40 | joe_bleau | Giving out our source code for the product is not an option. |
| 16:28.57 | prpplague | ahh, so this is to be a software only project? |
| 16:28.59 | joe_bleau | I would consider allowing select customers to license it. |
| 16:29.01 | joe_bleau | Nope. |
| 16:29.22 | joe_bleau | It's hardware and software. |
| 16:29.33 | jbevren | the boss is likely paranoid about others competing with the released source.. i.e. we made it so why should we give it away |
| 16:30.00 | joe_bleau | There's no way were giving away our source code. If I statically link to GPL code, doesn't it infect our stuff? |
| 16:30.16 | joe_bleau | IOW, the end users would need our code along with the scripting interpreter source to rebuild from scratch. |
| 16:30.34 | joe_bleau | And that's a deal breaker. Totally. No way we'd hand it over to the competition. |
| 16:30.37 | jbevren | joe_bleau: An option for linking against GPL libraries is to provide a linkable binary library that contains your code |
| 16:30.46 | jbevren | iirc thats one of the issues with the zipit talk application |
| 16:31.09 | jbevren | zipit can provide a linkable code library and satisfy the gpl without releasing the source for it |
| 16:31.28 | joe_bleau | static, or dynamic? |
| 16:31.41 | jbevren | the zipit application is statically linked to glibc |
| 16:32.06 | jbevren | my understanding is that they need to provide a dynamically linked lib so that glibc can be edited or changed and still be linkable to the application |
| 16:32.12 | jbevren | to/with/(whatever) |
| 16:32.22 | joe_bleau | Sorry, it doesn't even matter. Assume for time being that GPL is out. LGPL maybe, BSD or PD ok. |
| 16:32.25 | jbevren | hehe |
| 16:32.28 | jbevren | yeps |
| 16:32.31 | joe_bleau | We're too small to risk it. |
| 16:32.34 | jbevren | just adding my $0.02 |
| 16:32.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau: we've always been 100% gpl so its hard for me to understand that business style |
| 16:33.42 | joe_bleau | Sure, I get that. I understand it's not a politically correct way to go. But I'm not going to push for a change. |
| 16:34.01 | joe_bleau | There's no solid business case for our apps to be GPL. And lots of potential downside. |
| 16:34.37 | prpplague | i can understand that |
| 16:34.54 | prpplague | joe_bleau: we are primarily a hardware company, adding the software is just icing on the cake for us |
| 16:35.14 | prpplague | joe_bleau: plus we need to have our customers able to do modifications and customize to their needs |
| 16:35.52 | joe_bleau | I've seen your products. Your average customer is different than ours. |
| 16:35.58 | joe_bleau | Very different! |
| 16:36.01 | prpplague | yea |
| 16:36.07 | prpplague | we have a niche market |
| 16:37.37 | joe_bleau | Much more sophisticated. |
| 16:37.59 | joe_bleau | Anyway, atlast, lua, small-basic. Any other thoughts? Forth? |
| 16:38.12 | joe_bleau | (altast is forth-like.) |
| 16:39.03 | joe_bleau | bbiab |
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| 18:00.42 | jbevren | yay |
| 18:00.50 | jbevren | when lilo wont load a kernel, use PXE to load it :D |
| 18:01.18 | jbevren | ever since I set up tftp/pxe boot, Ive been so happy lol |
| 18:01.42 | jbevren | so the toolbox is installed and running |
| 18:01.48 | joe_bleau | I love doing netboot installs on the sparcs. |
| 18:01.57 | jbevren | I do it on my PC's too |
| 18:01.58 | joe_bleau | can't get much quicker or easier. |
| 18:02.05 | jbevren | I dont even own an install cd anymore |
| 18:02.27 | jbevren | now if I could get this POS to accept a 256M stick hehe |
| 18:02.33 | jbevren | stupid hp e-vectra |
| 18:02.47 | jbevren | lovely formfactor, very quiet, uses custom SDRAM dimms |
| 18:03.12 | jbevren | brb |
| 18:05.36 | jbevren | hm |
| 18:05.45 | jbevren | I'm not used to gnome :X |
| 18:05.46 | jbevren | lol |
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| 18:29.41 | flyback- | jbevren |
| 18:29.53 | flyback- | is there a way to use a floppy to initiate a pxe style boot |
| 18:34.08 | CP|too | yeah - use syslinux to boot to etherboot |
| 18:38.11 | jbevren | yep |
| 18:38.20 | jbevren | grub also has some limited networkability |
| 18:38.30 | jbevren | it depends largely on your network hardware |
| 18:38.53 | jbevren | if you have some spare cash, look on ebay for intel eepro100 server adapters. Those most often have a PXE rom (make sure they do) |
| 18:38.59 | jbevren | I got 10 such cards for $50 :) |
| 18:39.58 | CP|too | LinuxBIOS + etherboot/gPXE is my favorite combination |
| 18:40.13 | jbevren | they also have aes256 accelerators, which is nice on a p100 |
| 18:40.17 | jbevren | hehe |
| 18:40.24 | jbevren | they make ssh X remote sessions -fast- |
| 18:40.36 | jbevren | Ive seen one in action, but never configured it on a system of my own |
| 18:46.36 | flyback- | can't |
| 18:46.44 | flyback- | I'm talking about laptops :P |
| 18:46.44 | jbevren | suffer then! lol jk |
| 18:46.49 | jbevren | erm |
| 18:46.52 | jbevren | with builtin ethernet? |
| 18:46.56 | flyback- | nope |
| 18:47.05 | jbevren | this makes for a special form of pain in the rear :) |
| 18:47.17 | jbevren | build a dos floppy with your pcmcia drivers, and the card drivers |
| 18:47.23 | jbevren | from there, have fun |
| 18:48.46 | flyback- | I might just restort to preloading the hd's |
| 18:49.01 | flyback- | just wondered if there was a universal boot floppy to initital netboot |
| 18:49.32 | jbevren | not really. Each network card has a different access method |
| 18:49.40 | flyback- | I know that part |
| 18:49.50 | flyback- | I mean once you have the dos driver for it |
| 18:49.51 | jbevren | so you want to know if there's a universal one that supports every netcard? :) |
| 18:49.56 | jbevren | ahhh |
| 18:49.59 | flyback- | no just a set |
| 18:50.06 | flyback- | and I will buy cards based on that set |
| 18:50.07 | jbevren | I wonder if grub4dos has UNDI support |
| 18:50.22 | jbevren | if it does, you could load the netcard's UNDI driver and use grub4dos |
| 18:50.40 | flyback- | hmm thx |
| 18:51.04 | jbevren | that failing, I'm pretty sure netboot will help |
| 18:51.06 | jbevren | er etherboot |
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| 20:26.13 | flyback | man this polished granite I bought last night should make a nice relatively static free heat proof surface |
| 20:26.23 | flyback | so if I blow up lithium cells etc I don't burn down the house :) |
| 20:35.53 | jbevren | isnt granite nonconductive? |
| 20:36.04 | jbevren | thats kinda non-antistatic :) |
| 21:00.08 | flyback | well plastic is nonconductive too |
| 21:00.14 | flyback | but it's defintely not antistatic |
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