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| 03:11.24 | joe_bleau | There's nothing quite like "laying down the law" to te company owner. |
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| 13:50.41 | wmat | prpplague: you should lurk in #elinux too :) |
| 13:51.07 | prpplague | wmat: sorry won't go back there |
| 13:51.53 | wmat | prpplague: why? something happen? |
| 13:52.25 | prpplague | wmat: yea, a couple of years back, actually thats when #edev sprung up |
| 13:52.56 | wmat | prpplague: oh, i didn't know there was any problems. |
| 13:53.43 | wmat | prpplague: was the problem with an individual? |
| 13:53.53 | prpplague | wmat: really doesn't mattery much anymore, i don't believe any of the old crew of #elinux even hang out there anymore, with the exception of tim |
| 13:54.16 | prpplague | wmat: more with the attitude of the channel, it had changed over the years |
| 13:54.29 | wmat | prpplague: that's really too bad, as #elinux is the logical channel for elinux.org people |
| 13:54.30 | prpplague | wmat: much like many of the other channels on freenode, i.e. handhelds.org channels |
| 13:54.36 | prpplague | wmat: yea |
| 13:54.56 | wmat | prpplague: elinux.org user count has jumped considerably, to 302 |
| 13:56.23 | prpplague | wmat: the channels have become less and less for a place for people to work on projects and more for the script kiddies and general linux users |
| 13:56.35 | wmat | prpplague: agreed |
| 13:56.35 | prpplague | wmat: there are still a few good channels like the olpc stuff |
| 13:57.08 | wmat | prpplague: solutions? perhaps private channels? |
| 13:57.12 | prpplague | wmat: and every now and then a small channel pops up for some devrs to get together on a specific issue, i.e. the libertas stuff |
| 13:58.12 | prpplague | wmat: yea basically from what i hear, all the main kernel guru's along with many project maintainers have moved to private channels |
| 13:58.57 | wmat | prpplague: yes, i've heard that as well and experienced it to some extent. It has its benefits. |
| 13:59.20 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:59.44 | wmat | prpplague: one modelis to have an Open mailing list and then dependent on contributions, i.e. good answers to stuff and/or code contributions, invite individuals into channels. |
| 14:00.35 | prpplague | wmat: yea, problem is that alot of people, me included, have an almost phoebic fear of mailing lists |
| 14:02.38 | prpplague | wmat: post patches or questions on lists and you either get ignored or flamed |
| 14:02.55 | prpplague | wmat: neither make for a valuable usage of time |
| 14:02.59 | wmat | heh, interesting. |
| 14:03.18 | wmat | prpplague: apparently lkml etiquette has improved |
| 14:04.00 | wmat | prpplague: I've seen the tolerance level decline lately for the "hard-ass hacker types" who basically call everyone stupid publically |
| 14:04.09 | prpplague | http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/15/155 |
| 14:05.17 | prpplague | wmat: the amount of "big-iron" vs. "desktop and embedded" conflict seems to be rising imho |
| 14:06.06 | wmat | prpplague: so is the cross-over between the two though, such as with Assymmetric NUMA for embedded |
| 14:07.38 | prpplague | wmat: i don't know, but i do know that the kernel has become much more difficult to work with lately on the embedded end because of, imho, work oriented towards server side operations |
| 14:08.51 | wmat | prpplague: interesting. Given that embedded linux is only growing though, that can't continue. |
| 14:09.05 | prpplague | wmat: personally i see a divide happening between people who are wanting to us linux and related oss for commercial applications (i.e. they do linux as a job) and those who work on as a "hobby" |
| 14:09.58 | wmat | prpplague: the contributions by "hobbyists" still out weigh the corporate commits |
| 14:10.15 | prpplague | wmat: and the reasonsfor that is many |
| 14:11.32 | chouimat | prpplague: the kernel also sucks on desktip :) |
| 14:12.02 | prpplague | wmat: 1) many corp types find it daunting to find the "correct" place to submit a patch, 2) windows for merging are unscheduled and often unannouced 3) many corp applications have items that are nessary to a business but are considered "the wrong way" by oss coders |
| 14:12.20 | prpplague | wmat: good example is AML's continued use of procfs for custom device entries |
| 14:14.19 | prpplague | wmat: imho, linux and many oss projects are suffering from the same problems that many businesses go through, they start off listening to their customers, they grow real fast, and somewhere down the road they get big enough that they stop listening to customers |
| 14:14.56 | wmat | interesting |
| 14:15.28 | wmat | prpplague: seems very typical of a "maturing" technology doesn't it though? |
| 14:16.20 | chouimat | I thought stopping listening was the stuff of teenagers :) |
| 14:17.47 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe |
| 14:17.56 | prpplague | wmat: it seems so |
| 14:18.04 | chouimat | prpplague: or religious fanatics ;) |
| 14:19.45 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe |
| 14:19.54 | chouimat | interesting http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2007/101607-kernel.html |
| 14:20.06 | prpplague | wmat: i know cosmic would disagree with me on some of the things i've said |
| 14:20.53 | prpplague | wmat: he's pretty into community support and takes his responsibilities serious enough , but imho, not all sub system people are as diligent and understanding |
| 14:28.14 | prpplague | wmat: just like the latest patches i submitted to lak, they just got totally ignored |
| 14:28.37 | prpplague | wmat: stuff is still broken in the current kernel |
| 14:31.47 | wmat | prpplague: what's lak? |
| 14:31.59 | prpplague | linux arm kernel |
| 14:32.04 | wmat | oh |
| 14:32.19 | wmat | how long has it been ignored? |
| 14:32.48 | prpplague | wmat: i submitted the patch on aug 20th |
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| 14:44.50 | prpplague | Crofton: greetings earthling |
| 14:44.55 | Crofton | gm |
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| 14:45.11 | prpplague | speak of the devil |
| 14:45.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin:greetings earthling |
| 14:45.27 | CosmicPenguin | hello |
| 15:06.10 | wmat | prpplague: that's a long time ago, you should resubmit |
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| 15:33.48 | prpplague | wmat: which is my point, its had plenty of time for them to look at |
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| 17:38.15 | ds2 | let' |
| 17:38.19 | ds2 | s fork the tree!!! |
| 17:40.10 | GPSFan | prpplague: did anyone ever try to compile that code you sent me for the enc28j60? |
| 17:40.34 | prpplague | GPSFan: i have not, i just got it yesterday from the guy |
| 17:40.44 | prpplague | GPSFan: i had planned on testing this weekend |
| 17:40.49 | prpplague | GPSFan: running into problems? |
| 17:40.56 | GPSFan | it's got some basic errors... |
| 17:41.51 | GPSFan | http://pastebin.ca/741395 |
| 17:42.11 | GPSFan | oops ignore the first line... |
| 17:43.28 | GPSFan | prpplague: this is with kernel 2.6.22 with the hammer patches |
| 17:43.44 | prpplague | hmm |
| 17:43.54 | prpplague | i'll ahve to look at ti this weekend |
| 17:44.31 | prpplague | GPSFan: lots of basic issues it seems |
| 17:44.31 | GPSFan | only 2 real errors, the # of args for enc28j60_read and the INIT_WORK stuff. |
| 17:44.38 | prpplague | yea |
| 17:46.14 | GPSFan | prpplague: I just had some time and thought I'd see if it compiled. just an FYI... cul... |
| 17:46.24 | prpplague | GPSFan: thanks |
| 17:46.29 | prpplague | GPSFan: later |
| 17:51.12 | ds2 | no one has the stomach to start a fork ? |
| 17:53.31 | GPSFan | prpplague: looks like all ther enc28j60_read problems are in the debug code in enc28j60_reg_dump. the rest of the calls seem to be ok. |
| 17:55.15 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh, the reg_dump really wasn;t used anyway |
| 17:55.23 | prpplague | GPSFan: you could just comment it out for testing |
| 17:56.23 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah, looking at the INIT_WORK now.. |
| 17:57.34 | GPSFan | Seems INIT_WORK macro changed between 2.6.19 and 2.6.22 to only take 2 params. |
| 17:57.58 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:58.00 | ds2 | I think dropping the 3rd argument is safe in most cases |
| 17:58.44 | GPSFan | priv in this case. |
| 18:06.40 | GPSFan | prpplague: well it compiled, I'll test the module after lunch ;>) |
| 18:07.00 | prpplague | fun fun |
| 18:33.52 | ds2 | is this right - a touch screen film with 4 wires is just 2 variable resistors 90 deg from each other? so if I put the 2 X terminals to a DMM, I'll get a reading that depends on where I touch? |
| 18:45.58 | prpplague | ds2: a little more complicated than that |
| 18:46.19 | prpplague | ds2: but yea its basically two variable resistors |
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| 19:55.32 | Crofton | I need to change the davinci kernel from NOR to NAND flash for the mtd driver |
| 19:55.42 | Crofton | and likely and another board |
| 19:56.00 | Crofton | is this discussed anywhere other than in the source? |
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| 20:21.41 | prpplague | Crofton: probably not |
| 20:21.56 | prpplague | Crofton: #mtd is about the only place, and you'll probably get flamed |
| 20:22.17 | prpplague | Crofton: i'm doing some mtd conversions from nor to nand starting monday |
| 20:22.24 | prpplague | Crofton: might as well chat about here |
| 20:24.30 | Crofton | heh |
| 20:25.45 | Crofton | I am hopeful I can copy the board-vm file and make needed changes there |
| 20:26.01 | Crofton | I'm going to send something to the DV list also |
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| 20:26.26 | Crofton | might go home early, also have a new root fs building with some stuff I need to check |
| 20:39.03 | prpplague | Crofton: yea yea |
| 20:39.20 | prpplague | Crofton: there a good DV dev kit thats of a reasonable cost? |
| 20:39.24 | Crofton | tomorrow I attack this head on |
| 20:39.32 | Crofton | define reasonable cost? |
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| 20:45.39 | prpplague | Crofton: less than a couple hours at the nudie bar |
| 20:45.57 | ds2 | wouldn't that depend on the type of n00die bar? ;) |
| 20:46.32 | Crofton | I think we have seen one under $1500 |
| 20:47.02 | ds2 | wait and something cheaper might appear |
| 20:47.26 | Crofton | I need to start adding stuff when I find it to the wiki |
| 20:48.09 | prpplague | Crofton: indeed |
| 20:59.01 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a bad sig |
| 20:59.02 | CosmicPenguin | n |
| 20:59.16 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: yup |
| 21:27.16 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 21:39.38 | prpplague | http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/localnews/ci_7024654 |
| 21:45.02 | prpplague | the US immigration system is sooooo broken |
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| 21:59.32 | MonMotha | prpplague: the US **** system is in general broken |
| 22:08.05 | prpplague | MonMotha: not everything, just some things |
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