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| 03:31.23 | Drexel | hey guys |
| 03:32.45 | joe_bleau | Howdy. |
| 03:33.39 | Drexel | while I dont know much about the topic, i am interested |
| 03:33.49 | joe_bleau | Same here. |
| 03:34.46 | Drexel | i do wanna ask, how hard would it be to make a system that reads a camera input, and displays it to a lcd screen? |
| 03:37.20 | davidc__ | Drexel: what format / framerate camera input |
| 03:37.29 | davidc__ | Drexel: what format /framerate LCD :P |
| 03:37.32 | Drexel | really really simple and cheap |
| 03:37.49 | davidc__ | Drexel: thats still nowhere near enough info |
| 03:37.59 | davidc__ | LCD for example - cameraphone size? 21inch display size? |
| 03:38.03 | Drexel | framrate quick enough so its not as bad as cheap/old webcams (so like 20-30fps) |
| 03:38.06 | davidc__ | how many colors? |
| 03:38.14 | Drexel | lcd from a cheap digital camera |
| 03:38.22 | davidc__ | ok, so 320x240 |
| 03:38.26 | davidc__ | 16-24bpp |
| 03:38.28 | Drexel | would like it to have a decent color |
| 03:38.34 | davidc__ | now the camera end |
| 03:38.44 | davidc__ | what res is the camera shooting at? |
| 03:38.50 | davidc__ | and how far do you need to transmit the data? |
| 03:38.56 | davidc__ | and what format data is coming out of the camera? |
| 03:39.01 | Drexel | doesnt need to be high at all |
| 03:39.09 | Drexel | i dont know what format |
| 03:39.25 | Drexel | think of using it as a scope of sorts |
| 03:39.46 | davidc__ | ok, so lets say a little cmos camera |
| 03:39.50 | davidc__ | like those on cell phones |
| 03:39.54 | Drexel | length of a meter or so, so pretty long |
| 03:40.01 | davidc__ | long? |
| 03:40.03 | Drexel | hah |
| 03:40.07 | Drexel | seems long to me |
| 03:40.17 | davidc__ | erm.. whats a meter long? |
| 03:40.22 | Drexel | o |
| 03:40.29 | davidc__ | the scope? |
| 03:40.33 | Drexel | the 'how far to transmit data' |
| 03:40.35 | davidc__ | ah |
| 03:40.57 | davidc__ | ok, so the first problem is what accepts the streaming data off the camera, color space converts it, buffers it, and sends to the LCD |
| 03:41.12 | davidc__ | you'll either need an FPGA, or a processor with hardware blocks for both |
| 03:41.24 | davidc__ | the AT91SAM926* series is a processor that has those HW blocks |
| 03:41.36 | Drexel | just to fill ya in, i know very little of microprocessors, but i am pretty good with electronics and electronic theory |
| 03:41.47 | davidc__ | there are also ASICs designed for cell phones that have that capability, but getting your hands on one will be nigh impossible |
| 03:41.56 | davidc__ | Drexel: in that case, get a PSONE screen that takes NTSC |
| 03:42.02 | davidc__ | and a camera that spits out an NTSC signal |
| 03:42.36 | joe_bleau | Yeah, the duct tape solution. I like its simplicity. |
| 03:42.48 | davidc__ | I was thinking manufacturable :P |
| 03:42.58 | davidc__ | when I realized he wanted a 1-off, duct tape :P |
| 03:43.44 | Drexel | psone screen is too big |
| 03:43.52 | Drexel | think digital camera screen |
| 03:45.04 | joe_bleau | Not sure about frame rate, but a mid-range PDA with color screen and camera? |
| 03:45.18 | joe_bleau | Might be able to remove the camera section and tether it. |
| 03:45.28 | ds2 | why not just an NTSC LCD + NTSC output camera? ;) |
| 03:45.46 | davidc__ | ds2: I just suggested that :P |
| 03:46.09 | ds2 | oh yeah |
| 03:46.16 | davidc__ | Drexel: if you're making this in a 1-off, without significant microprocessor / high speed digital knowledge, you're not going to have fun |
| 03:46.19 | joe_bleau | (I'm not up on all the IRC cool talk...what's that emoticon mean?) |
| 03:46.42 | davidc__ | dunno, I use it as sorta amusement |
| 03:46.42 | Drexel | can you explain the NTSC setup? will it only need one processor? what about when you are carrying data lengths a meter, any interference or noise? |
| 03:46.50 | davidc__ | Drexel: you won't need any processor |
| 03:46.54 | Drexel | oh |
| 03:46.56 | Drexel | snap! |
| 03:46.56 | davidc__ | its just the same cable that a VCR has as vide |
| 03:47.00 | davidc__ | *video |
| 03:47.15 | davidc__ | Drexel: the thing is, talking to most LCD"s in that framerate range |
| 03:47.21 | davidc__ | require a constant stream of data, at precise timings |
| 03:47.22 | ds2 | or better yet, just get a baby monitor |
| 03:47.23 | ds2 | wireless |
| 03:47.27 | ds2 | =) |
| 03:47.37 | joe_bleau | frame rate on a baby monitor? |
| 03:47.39 | Drexel | hahah ds that is an awesome idea |
| 03:47.41 | davidc__ | Drexel: which is most likely not the same as what your camera is spitting out. |
| 03:47.46 | ds2 | donno |
| 03:47.52 | Drexel | davidc__: that sucks |
| 03:47.54 | Drexel | hah |
| 03:47.59 | davidc__ | Drexel: so you need to buffer the data coming out of the camera, color space convert it, and send to the LCD |
| 03:48.04 | davidc__ | all at precise timings / high speeds |
| 03:48.11 | ds2 | joe_blueau: wouldn't be surprise if it is just an NTSC camera + 2.4GHz radio |
| 03:48.42 | davidc__ | Drexel: keep in mind that 320x240,24bpp @30fps is 52Mbps |
| 03:48.45 | Drexel | damn baby monitors are expensive |
| 03:48.54 | Drexel | holy hell |
| 03:49.01 | joe_bleau | Do you have a price target in mind? |
| 03:49.13 | Drexel | well its just a project to play with, i like to learn through projects |
| 03:49.33 | Drexel | so no, no price target in mind, but cheaper = better |
| 03:50.03 | davidc__ | Drexel: your cheapest option will be off-the-shelf NTSC lcd + off the shelf ntsc camera |
| 03:50.20 | davidc__ | a hand made all digital solution will likely require a 4 layer board |
| 03:50.34 | davidc__ | and that board alone could well exceed the cost of the off the shelf NTSC lcd + off the shelf camera |
| 03:50.48 | ds2 | it may be doable on a 2 layer board |
| 03:51.12 | Drexel | yeah maybe this project is over my head |
| 03:51.35 | joe_bleau | Seems like a saw a robotics themed board the other day...webcam type camera, blackfin DSP, less than $500. |
| 03:51.44 | ds2 | make it fun, add a realtime MPEG encoder/decoder! |
| 03:51.45 | joe_bleau | Sort of a middle of the road option. Plenty to do there. |
| 03:52.24 | ds2 | joe_bleau: that seems expensive... gumstix + $10 webcam + LCD is about $300ish |
| 03:52.37 | Drexel | http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4GHz-Wireless-Baby-Monitor-1-8-screen-w-Night-Vision_W0QQitemZ320175606044QQihZ011QQcategoryZ20435QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 03:52.41 | joe_bleau | Did any of the handheld games have a camera option? |
| 03:52.42 | Drexel | think i can hack and slash that? |
| 03:53.06 | Drexel | remember guys, i am talking about around a 2 inch lcd |
| 03:53.24 | davidc__ | ds2: it might be doable on 2 - but the only arms I know of that have that hardware are difficult, if not impossible to do a good signal-integrity design on 2 layers |
| 03:53.24 | davidc__ | ds2: and FPGA's need such good ground + many voltage rails that they're hard to do below 4 |
| 03:53.44 | Drexel | yeah you guys know way more than me |
| 03:53.50 | Drexel | i think ill stay in this channel and feed off you |
| 03:53.57 | Drexel | (aka another idler) |
| 03:54.14 | ds2 | davidc__: a USB webcam ($10 or less) would eliminate a of the problems there |
| 03:54.52 | davidc__ | ds2: yeah, but most of those require USB2 |
| 03:54.58 | davidc__ | to get that frame rate |
| 03:55.09 | davidc__ | which again requires a fast arm, which again requires proper layout techniques |
| 03:55.23 | davidc__ | hell, for USB2 you need to run a proper differential pair for it to work |
| 03:55.39 | ds2 | 'proper' is pretty loose |
| 03:55.45 | joe_bleau | Sorry, $175: http://surveyor-corporation.stores.yahoo.net/srblcabo.html |
| 03:55.58 | ds2 | wonder if there are cheap hackable phones |
| 03:56.07 | ds2 | ready to go camera + screen there |
| 03:56.28 | Drexel | http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Baby-monitor-with-night-vision_W0QQitemZ190168057690QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20435QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 03:56.31 | Drexel | 15 bucks |
| 03:56.52 | davidc__ | Drexel: might be black and white |
| 03:56.59 | Drexel | ahh true |
| 03:57.55 | Drexel | http://cgi.ebay.com/MOBI-CAM-ULTRA-WIRELESS-COLOR-VIDEO-BABY-MONITOR-NEW_W0QQitemZ130169699962QQihZ003QQcategoryZ20435QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 03:58.06 | Drexel | there.. under 10 dollars - color |
| 03:58.11 | Drexel | probably really crappy |
| 04:02.00 | Drexel | http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Handheld-Wireless-Color-Camera-Baby-Monitor_W0QQitemZ230187075203QQihZ013QQcategoryZ20435QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem thats actually pretty decent |
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| 04:59.05 | Drexel | hey guys.. what do you think about the last link i posted |
| 05:24.04 | davidc__ | Drexel: no clue on the FPS on that guy |
| 05:24.08 | Drexel | k |
| 05:24.13 | Drexel | any guesses? |
| 05:24.19 | davidc__ | probably around 30, but thats just the NTSC video standard which it likely uses |
| 05:24.28 | davidc__ | well, 29.997 to be exact :P |
| 05:24.32 | davidc__ | but it really could be anything |
| 05:24.44 | Drexel | hah |
| 05:24.48 | Drexel | i might buy it to play with it |
| 05:24.52 | Drexel | try to make it smaller |
| 05:25.01 | Drexel | but the circuit board might take up the whole space |
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| 21:15.09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I found a new beer blog about Colorado brews |
| 21:15.14 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.beerhermit.blogspot.com/ |
| 21:15.27 | chouimat|away | prpplague: yay I got a job ... |
| 21:15.28 | CosmicPenguin | Make you feel jealous.. :) |
| 21:19.02 | chouimat|away | later beer time |
| 21:50.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was considering trying to get some milkstout this evening, but at $24 a six pack i can only afford to do that once a month, hehe |
| 21:50.33 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 21:50.41 | CosmicPenguin | that blog is talking about some of the new seasonal beers at lh |
| 21:50.55 | prpplague | ahh cool |
| 21:51.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the 2 below is nice |
| 21:52.06 | CosmicPenguin | its okay |
| 21:52.08 | CosmicPenguin | its not my favorite |
| 21:52.33 | prpplague | hmm |
| 21:52.39 | CosmicPenguin | Its a decent winter beer |
| 21:52.40 | prpplague | nice blog |
| 21:52.43 | prpplague | i'll have a look |
| 21:52.44 | CosmicPenguin | the good thing about 2 below, is that you can drink it all season |
| 21:52.52 | CosmicPenguin | The Frambozen from New Belgium is just damn good |
| 21:52.57 | CosmicPenguin | but thats a christmas beer |
| 21:53.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ho ho hum, and with that i head home for the weekend and try to find some good beer |
| 21:53.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: later |
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