| 00:02.46 | *** join/#edev CosmicPe1guin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 00:45.26 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-65-67-67-84.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 00:57.07 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:57.19 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 00:57.43 | prpplague | jimp: ordered you hammer kit yet? hehe |
| 00:57.49 | prpplague | s/you/your |
| 01:10.28 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:12.06 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 01:25.24 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:25.32 | prpplague^2 | ho ho hum |
| 01:25.42 | chouimat | hi prpplague^2 |
| 01:25.46 | prpplague^2 | can't figure out why my wireless router hates irc |
| 01:26.02 | chouimat | it's magic |
| 01:26.53 | prpplague | chouimat whats cookin today? |
| 01:27.14 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 01:49.42 | chouimat | prpplague: nothing |
| 01:52.31 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 01:53.00 | prpplague | some serious lag going on |
| 02:08.53 | *** join/#edev redb1ue (i=star@ppp214.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 02:54.05 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:56.12 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 02:56.22 | prpplague | too much work too little time |
| 02:57.20 | joe_bleau | Join the club. |
| 02:58.02 | prpplague | joe_bleau whats cookin? |
| 02:58.25 | prpplague | joe_bleau don;t see you online during the day much |
| 02:58.41 | joe_bleau | 3 weeks behind on production, equipment broken and running half speed, protos on hold, firmware due, etc. |
| 02:58.49 | joe_bleau | No, I tend to work during the day. |
| 02:59.12 | joe_bleau | I don't call my friends, my brokers, or do IRC while at work. |
| 02:59.19 | MonMotha | prpplague: too many projects, no time |
| 03:00.54 | prpplague | hehe, i consider irc a resource |
| 03:01.27 | prpplague | to me its kinda like listening to the radio while working |
| 03:01.46 | joe_bleau | I don't do that, either. |
| 03:01.51 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:02.03 | prpplague | joe_bleau your current situation sounds like mine |
| 03:02.10 | prpplague | or EE is draging his feet |
| 03:02.13 | joe_bleau | I've been known to unplug the phone. |
| 03:02.29 | joe_bleau | Sometimes (rarely) I close my office door, too. |
| 03:02.32 | prpplague | joe_bleau you work at home? |
| 03:02.44 | joe_bleau | only nights+weekends, as needed. |
| 03:02.54 | prpplague | oh |
| 03:03.15 | joe_bleau | Yeah, I'm 40+ hours/week in the office. |
| 03:03.25 | prpplague | same here |
| 03:03.40 | joe_bleau | Better T&M gear at the house, faster computer at work. |
| 03:03.51 | prpplague | plus these days i put in another 2 hours a day for tincantools |
| 03:04.07 | joe_bleau | And tincantools would be...? |
| 03:04.32 | prpplague | http://www.tincantools.com |
| 03:04.39 | prpplague | sister company to aml |
| 03:04.50 | joe_bleau | Where have I seen that before...oh, yeah, in the channel topic line! |
| 03:04.50 | flyback | well the good news is |
| 03:04.53 | prpplague | t&m ? |
| 03:05.04 | joe_bleau | test and measurement: scopes, meters, sig generators, etc. |
| 03:05.08 | prpplague | ahh |
| 03:05.11 | flyback | I found a perfect pvc pipe that the 34 watt dc brush motor from a printer slides into perfectely |
| 03:05.14 | flyback | keeping it dry outside |
| 03:05.16 | flyback | for my windmill |
| 03:05.32 | flyback | the bad news is it was part of a canucking $14 slider joint that the motor got stuck in at the store |
| 03:07.44 | prpplague | joe_bleau yep |
| 03:07.49 | flyback | prpplague |
| 03:08.08 | flyback | it you start wearing baggy pants in company commercials |
| 03:08.09 | prpplague | joe_bleau #edev is the official tincantools irc channel |
| 03:08.10 | flyback | I will kill you |
| 03:08.29 | prpplague | flyback forget to take your paxil today? |
| 03:09.00 | flyback | hah |
| 03:09.02 | flyback | sorta |
| 03:09.18 | flyback | the .5 out of 2 weeks into the final reduction 10 to 5 before I go to 0 |
| 03:09.23 | flyback | I am ready to take a bridge |
| 03:09.29 | flyback | but anyways that's not why I said that |
| 03:09.33 | flyback | hammer = mc hammer |
| 03:09.35 | flyback | nevermind |
| 03:09.37 | prpplague | flyback why are stop taking it anyway? |
| 03:09.46 | flyback | because it's fucked me hard the last 5 yrs |
| 03:09.50 | flyback | ruined my life |
| 03:10.09 | flyback | freaking zombie |
| 03:10.23 | prpplague | flyback please keep the language down |
| 03:10.39 | prpplague | flyback it seemed to be doing you some good, atleast on irc for the last few months |
| 03:10.40 | flyback | the colon problems and the nightmare looping "think get chased by a monster, get away get chased again, etc etc a few hundred times before you wake up screaming" |
| 03:10.48 | flyback | all started after I started on that crap |
| 03:10.51 | flyback | and I never realized it till now |
| 03:10.52 | flyback | :/ |
| 03:11.01 | prpplague | joe_bleau you have a look at the hammer? |
| 03:11.11 | flyback | prpplague yeah well the last few days have been hell |
| 03:11.21 | joe_bleau | Sure, I've been glancing over the wiki, forums, linuxdevices blurb, etc. |
| 03:11.35 | prpplague | joe_bleau whatcha think? |
| 03:11.39 | flyback | I keep breaking down crying over the girl in hs I took to the prom but never more than friends and I didn't follow up when I graduated 1 yr before her cause I was so far out of it |
| 03:12.00 | flyback | I dunno why when I found out several yrs ago she was married I was fine with that but now it's come to beat me over the head 500 times |
| 03:12.10 | flyback | :( |
| 03:12.21 | joe_bleau | One step closer to the eventual 'linux on a single chip' microcontroller. |
| 03:12.23 | flyback | I been thru this crap before |
| 03:12.29 | prpplague | joe_bleau indeed |
| 03:12.32 | flyback | heh |
| 03:12.47 | prpplague | joe_bleau funny thing, gotten hardly any sales in the US so far |
| 03:12.48 | flyback | imagine what our kids will say :) |
| 03:12.53 | flyback | prpplague wtf |
| 03:12.54 | flyback | :/ |
| 03:12.58 | prpplague | joe_bleau 90% of the orders have been international |
| 03:13.08 | joe_bleau | Wow. That's surprising. |
| 03:13.29 | prpplague | joe_bleau indeed it surprised me too |
| 03:13.47 | joe_bleau | Good thing your RoHS, huh? ;-) |
| 03:13.52 | prpplague | joe_bleau indeed |
| 03:13.56 | joe_bleau | s/your/you're |
| 03:14.14 | prpplague | joe_bleau funny thing was we almost didn't go rohs for the first production run |
| 03:14.28 | joe_bleau | I'm avoiding it at work. |
| 03:14.39 | prpplague | rohs compliancy? |
| 03:14.53 | joe_bleau | My dream CM would do old-school rosin flux leaded solder process, with excellent cleaning. |
| 03:15.07 | joe_bleau | Yep. I don't want to be the beta tester for tin whiskers. |
| 03:15.14 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:15.34 | flyback | I have a friend who did semi packaging |
| 03:15.46 | flyback | he says lead free can be less whisker prone if done properly |
| 03:16.27 | prpplague | joe_bleau been hard getting feedback from people on the hammer |
| 03:16.48 | prpplague | joe_bleau either people love it, or they don't bother talking about it |
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| 03:16.52 | joe_bleau | So I've seen. |
| 03:17.19 | joe_bleau | Maybe it needs a little more sizzle? |
| 03:17.32 | prpplague | joe_bleau sizzle in what way? |
| 03:18.02 | joe_bleau | not sure...maybe onboard wifi, nice color LCD, or at least an ethernet jack? |
| 03:18.19 | joe_bleau | I've been trying to come up with a reason to play with one. |
| 03:18.33 | joe_bleau | But it's sorta inbetween a chip and a device. |
| 03:18.38 | prpplague | joe_bleau it has all of those |
| 03:19.08 | joe_bleau | I've not used a lot of module level products before. |
| 03:19.17 | joe_bleau | (Thinking about things like the rabbit, netburner, etc.) |
| 03:19.55 | prpplague | joe_bleau interesting, so your first impression is that the hammer doesn't support those interfaces? |
| 03:20.34 | joe_bleau | No, first impression is that I have to break out the USB lines, find supported USB devices, plug 'em in, and find drivers. |
| 03:20.42 | joe_bleau | But that's just a first impression. |
| 03:21.02 | prpplague | interesting |
| 03:21.25 | joe_bleau | I don't mean to sound critical. |
| 03:21.26 | prpplague | guess we need to a better job of getting that across that its all there ready to use |
| 03:21.34 | prpplague | joe_bleau naw, thats what i was looking for |
| 03:21.52 | joe_bleau | I think some of that will clear up once you start seeing finished demo designs. |
| 03:22.19 | prpplague | yea, need to put some info on the main page as well as the wiki |
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| 03:23.00 | prpplague | joe_bleau so for you, you'd rather see those items sold as part of the kit, i.e. a carrier board with color lcd and ethernet? |
| 03:23.24 | joe_bleau | I'm not sure it's a matter of selling it that way. |
| 03:23.48 | joe_bleau | I guess it's still a little unclear what I have to provide on my board to connect those items. |
| 03:24.08 | joe_bleau | For instance, I don't have much use for linux without networking. |
| 03:24.40 | joe_bleau | So, if I buy a hammer and build a custom carrier, it's not clear what I need to slap on the carrier to support wifi or rj45 ethernet. |
| 03:25.41 | prpplague | joe_bleau well as far as the ethernet, http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_How_to_Enc28j60 |
| 03:26.05 | prpplague | joe_bleau as far as the usb interface for wifi, the carrier board schematic is freely available |
| 03:26.20 | prpplague | joe_bleau basically all you need is a usb host connector and +5v |
| 03:27.34 | prpplague | http://www.tincantools.com/assets/Hammer_Carrier_Rev-C.pdf |
| 03:28.18 | prpplague | guess i need to make some pages with reference schematic info |
| 03:29.55 | prpplague | joe_bleau thanks for the feedback |
| 03:30.27 | joe_bleau | Then there's the software angle...it's also a little hard to tell what I'd need to download. |
| 03:30.54 | joe_bleau | (I was actually considering attempting to build a kernel, just to see if it could be done in windows/cygwin!) |
| 03:31.32 | prpplague | joe_bleau everything you need to make it run is on the cd that ships with it |
| 03:32.03 | prpplague | joe_bleau the software angle seems to be a problem, people aren't understanding that its a turn key solution |
| 03:32.30 | joe_bleau | Still need to cross compile for it, right? |
| 03:32.33 | prpplague | joe_bleau you can do the build in cyqwin, but thats not the build environment we support |
| 03:33.05 | prpplague | joe_bleau yes a cross compiler is need, but its on the cd and basically all you have to do is untar it and type make |
| 03:34.50 | prpplague | joe_bleau depending on the speed of your dev box, usually takes about 20-30 minutes to do a fresh build, then after that you can do new builds in about 1-2 minutes |
| 03:35.27 | prpplague | joe_bleau never used buildroot before? |
| 03:35.46 | joe_bleau | I downloaded it and tried playing around with it once. |
| 03:36.03 | joe_bleau | I don't remember why. |
| 03:36.37 | prpplague | joe_bleau has a make config similiar to the kernel |
| 03:37.06 | prpplague | joe_bleau you can either use the default hammer build or edit you config to enable the options and apps you want to include |
| 03:37.50 | joe_bleau | So, what takes 20-30 minutes to build? kernel+userland? My hello world program? Something else? |
| 03:38.32 | prpplague | joe_bleau: toolchain is the main portion of the 20-25 minutes, the kernel+userland usually takes about 5 minutes |
| 03:39.14 | prpplague | once the toolchain is complete just add it your main path and you can do cross compiled apps with no problems |
| 03:44.03 | prpplague | joe_bleau definetly need to make some of these items clearer on the web pages |
| 03:44.24 | prpplague | joe_bleau any other items that seem missing? |
| 03:44.44 | joe_bleau | Docs are always behind my hardware and firmware, too... |
| 03:45.06 | joe_bleau | Don't forget, I'm quite different than your median customer. |
| 03:45.30 | prpplague | joe_bleau well to be honest, i thought alot of that info was pretty obvious, but i guess, i'm pretty jaded to the embedded environment |
| 03:45.40 | prpplague | joe_bleau different in what way? |
| 03:46.16 | joe_bleau | Most of my experience is on bare metal or real time kernel stuff, running on inhouse designed |
| 03:46.22 | joe_bleau | boards with micros. |
| 03:46.46 | joe_bleau | I suspect you'll sell to people who are comfortable embedding linux and usb devices in a product. |
| 03:47.14 | joe_bleau | We tend to be more of a 'solder chips on a board' company, rather than a 'plug modules together' outfit. |
| 03:47.24 | joe_bleau | Lots of NIH, as you might guess. |
| 03:47.39 | prpplague | well we were expecting that market, but we want to target people are currently using avrs and pics but want more power |
| 03:47.52 | prpplague | i assume they are going to ask questions similiar to yours |
| 03:48.12 | joe_bleau | If I'm coming from a PIC (and I've been there), toolchain! |
| 03:48.28 | joe_bleau | It's pretty easy to download MPLAB and get going. |
| 03:48.44 | joe_bleau | It's a little unclear with the hammer. |
| 03:49.28 | joe_bleau | It's their windows IDE and PIC tool package. |
| 03:49.42 | prpplague | ahh, the hammer uses a toolchain compiler just like avr-gcc and such |
| 03:50.33 | prpplague | joe_bleau mplab appears to be windows only, is that correct? |
| 03:50.40 | joe_bleau | Sure. |
| 03:50.53 | joe_bleau | (As far as I know...it's been years since I've played with PICs.) |
| 03:51.14 | flyback | you aren't missing much |
| 03:51.38 | joe_bleau | But it was a big step from something like MPLAB to building my own ARM toolchain from source on a sparc for my later projects. |
| 03:52.13 | prpplague | joe_bleau yea i can imagin, its not that difficult these days |
| 03:52.43 | prpplague | joe_bleau with buildroot, you untar it, cd to the main dir, and do a make |
| 03:53.05 | prpplague | joe_bleau watch the screen wiz by and in 20-30 minutes you are ready |
| 03:57.24 | joe_bleau | Yeah, that didn't work for me. |
| 03:59.37 | joe_bleau | Maybe my cygwin is too old, or I don't have the correct stuff installed. |
| 04:01.49 | prpplague | joe_bleau we, thats under a linux distro, under cyqwin isn't very tested |
| 04:02.38 | joe_bleau | looks like it wants curses.h. |
| 04:03.51 | prpplague | joe_bleau looks like what wants curses.h |
| 04:03.53 | prpplague | ? |
| 04:06.25 | joe_bleau | buildroot? |
| 04:06.43 | joe_bleau | I downloaded, bunzip2, untar'd, and typed make, as you explained. |
| 04:07.46 | prpplague | joe_bleau hehe, let me be a little clearer, insert the cd that ships with your hammer board, untar the included buildroot, and then type make :) |
| 04:08.22 | joe_bleau | Oh. I still thought buildroot would make it a little farther, without the hammer cd. |
| 04:08.30 | prpplague | joe_bleau i'll put the buildroot tar on the wiki tomorrow |
| 04:08.49 | prpplague | buildroot is always in a state of constant flux |
| 04:09.11 | prpplague | so you if you pulled a current svn it probably doesn't build |
| 04:09.17 | joe_bleau | I'm downloading on a unix box. It'll be a few minutes. |
| 04:09.26 | joe_bleau | Nope, I used the latest snapshot. Is there a better option? |
| 04:09.32 | prpplague | nope |
| 04:10.13 | prpplague | basically you have to pull a version that is working as best as possible, fix the outstanding issues then stick with that |
| 04:10.41 | prpplague | the main tree for buildroot is generally a "guide" |
| 04:10.55 | prpplague | most people who use buildroot maintain their own tree outside of buildroot |
| 04:11.16 | prpplague | generally pretty static, once its working you don't mess with it |
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| 04:11.22 | joe_bleau | But with hammer, someone else does that for me, right? |
| 04:11.30 | prpplague | joe_bleau correct, we do |
| 04:11.48 | prpplague | joe_bleau its all done, optomized for the hammer and ready to go |
| 04:12.44 | prpplague | you could use other build systems like openembedded, there are several beta testers that are using that |
| 04:13.03 | prpplague | in addition you can use any pre-build toolchain that supports armv4t |
| 04:13.16 | prpplague | generally you can find those online pretty easy if you needed to |
| 04:14.11 | joe_bleau | My bare metal arm toolchains wouldn't work thought, right? (Libs and headers.) |
| 04:15.40 | prpplague | joe_bleau if they are built to compile for armv4t yea they;d work |
| 04:16.08 | prpplague | joe_bleau assuming you want to compile for standalone applications, not something running inside linux |
| 04:16.21 | prpplague | joe_bleau no reason the hammer has to run linux |
| 04:16.31 | prpplague | joe_bleau you can run it bare metal if you want |
| 04:16.46 | joe_bleau | Well, sure, I understand that part. I'd just write a linker script, do my vector table, and go to it. |
| 04:17.22 | joe_bleau | Do you expect many users to go bare metal? |
| 04:17.42 | joe_bleau | (Actually, I'd be more interested in eCos or RTEMS.) |
| 04:17.50 | prpplague | joe_bleau not really, one of the main attractions to using a device with a mmu, is to run an os |
| 04:18.07 | prpplague | joe_bleau those would work perfectly on the hammer |
| 04:18.22 | prpplague | joe_bleau in fact iirc both are already supported for the s3c2410 |
| 04:18.38 | joe_bleau | Go away from linux and then you have to provide drivers. |
| 04:19.24 | prpplague | http://www.geocities.com/michaelanburaj/ecos/index.html |
| 04:19.46 | prpplague | joe_bleau you mean tincantools would need to provide drivers? |
| 04:19.54 | joe_bleau | No. |
| 04:20.05 | prpplague | joe_bleau you mean on your side? |
| 04:20.10 | joe_bleau | I mean if you go with ecos or rtems, chances are the USB host stuff won't exist. |
| 04:20.27 | prpplague | naw, the s3c2410 is pretty well supported |
| 04:20.27 | joe_bleau | So you couldn't just plug in a BT dongle, or USB wifi dongle, etc. |
| 04:20.33 | prpplague | its been around for about 3 years |
| 04:20.49 | prpplague | you might have a little harder time with peripheral drivers |
| 04:21.10 | prpplague | but no more than you would running ecos or rtems on some other platform |
| 04:21.55 | joe_bleau | ok, buildroot on openbsd/sparc64 made it a little farther. |
| 04:22.44 | prpplague | hehe, what did it die on? |
| 04:23.10 | joe_bleau | It didn't. It's asking me to select things. |
| 04:24.01 | prpplague | yea, need to do the config, we;ve already done all that |
| 04:24.17 | joe_bleau | Did I see that file on the wiki? |
| 04:24.19 | prpplague | i'll post the config for you tomorrow on the wiki if you are interested |
| 04:24.50 | prpplague | joe_bleau we hadn't posted it since we were still tweaking the buildroot all the way up to going live |
| 04:26.30 | prpplague | joe_bleau you think we need to do some testing with buildroot under cygwin and winblows? |
| 04:27.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau we had looked at this early on for winblows users - http://www.yagarto.de/index.html |
| 04:27.48 | joe_bleau | That sounds more like a question you should ask your manager, not me! |
| 04:29.24 | prpplague | joe_bleau so far, you are the only one thats mentioned cygwin, might just mean no one has expressed their opinions about it |
| 04:29.43 | joe_bleau | More likely, no one else is running cygwin. |
| 04:30.06 | prpplague | thats my thoughts as well |
| 04:30.08 | MonMotha | I never understood why people were so obsessed with developing embedded linux systems using Windows/Cygwin as the development host |
| 04:30.19 | joe_bleau | Do you really want to open that can of worms (supporting windows)? |
| 04:30.19 | prpplague | MonMotha thats my thoughts as well |
| 04:30.35 | prpplague | joe_bleau no, and thats a primary reason we didn't do it |
| 04:30.40 | MonMotha | there's the opportunity to run the same OS on both sides, so I take it |
| 04:31.01 | MonMotha | if one suggested developing for WinCE using OSX as a host, people would look at you like you're nutz |
| 04:31.02 | prpplague | MonMotha indeed |
| 04:31.04 | flyback | man |
| 04:31.10 | flyback | vmware owns your "canuck" |
| 04:31.17 | flyback | the heck with cygwin |
| 04:31.34 | flyback | some things are just not worth pissing with |
| 04:32.23 | prpplague | joe_bleau hammer was a project i managed for a proof of concept design as a replacement for a legacy 8051 product, the customers decided to go with a complete rework of the product |
| 04:32.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau so we decided to market the hammer ourselves |
| 04:32.47 | flyback | hahha |
| 04:32.48 | flyback | neat |
| 04:33.00 | flyback | but you 8051 killer you! |
| 04:33.39 | flyback | amazing |
| 04:33.45 | flyback | I can have a crappy beat up hub |
| 04:33.50 | flyback | usb 1.1 1 port only |
| 04:33.59 | flyback | not so great sd/mmc reader |
| 04:34.00 | prpplague | joe_bleau so although we had a modular design in mind when we built it, we took it as a "this is a really cool dev board, maybe other people would like it too" |
| 04:34.15 | flyback | and still be way ahead of the game with way less bull**** |
| 04:34.19 | prpplague | flyback what are you babling about? |
| 04:34.24 | flyback | puppy linux and other such small distros just rock :) |
| 04:34.33 | prpplague | ok |
| 04:34.53 | flyback | my point being how flash is so much less bull*** than previous things I used over the yrs |
| 04:34.55 | flyback | floppies, etc |
| 04:35.38 | flyback | it scares me :P |
| 04:37.15 | flyback | damn I just had to open my mouth |
| 04:37.15 | prpplague | maybe jimp there are MIT will pick some up and do some cool projects |
| 04:37.19 | prpplague | hehe |
| 04:38.39 | cajaka | Prpplauge how much current can the built in 3.3v voltage regulator handle? |
| 04:38.44 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 04:39.49 | prpplague | cajaka 500mA total |
| 04:39.55 | prpplague | cajaka not a whole lot |
| 04:40.46 | prpplague | cajaka you can run some basic stuff, but i'd use a serepate ldo for other devices such as the enc28j60 |
| 04:40.50 | flyback | yo pp |
| 04:41.07 | flyback | is there any special linux options for juicebox readers |
| 04:41.12 | prpplague | cajaka i actually have my +5v input disabled on some my hammerboards and use just 3.3v input |
| 04:41.13 | flyback | I should know about |
| 04:41.24 | prpplague | flyback juicebox readers? |
| 04:41.26 | flyback | besides /dev/null |
| 04:41.28 | flyback | the sd/mmc pos |
| 04:42.01 | prpplague | flyback ? |
| 04:42.06 | prpplague | flyback not understanding you |
| 04:42.38 | flyback | you know how the reader is quirky pos |
| 04:42.53 | flyback | is there any specific options you have found like when using one of them in linux |
| 04:42.59 | flyback | speed limit options etc |
| 04:43.12 | prpplague | flyback are you talking about the usb->mmc card reader that ships with the mp3 kit? |
| 04:43.31 | flyback | no I am talking about how my a**cr*** can read a sd |
| 04:43.37 | flyback | yes |
| 04:44.55 | prpplague | flyback no, they are just low quality, i had about 4 or 5 mine go bad and eat sd/mmc cards |
| 04:45.07 | flyback | yeah that's what I am hitting |
| 04:45.26 | flyback | what do you think th eproblem is |
| 04:45.32 | flyback | the build or the alcor ic? |
| 04:46.25 | prpplague | probably a combo of both, i suspect that they have some wrong cap values and left some of the i/o lines floating |
| 04:46.39 | flyback | ouch |
| 04:47.16 | prpplague | like i said they are cheap, i calculated that the total component cost of the reader was about $2.10 in qty of 10k |
| 04:47.17 | flyback | damn floaters |
| 04:47.59 | flyback | I never got around to getting a few of those flash readers |
| 04:48.04 | flyback | that are also self contained with a lcd |
| 04:48.07 | flyback | you can copy flash to flash |
| 04:48.11 | flyback | or usb device to flash |
| 04:48.16 | flyback | just has to be fat formatted |
| 04:48.41 | flyback | so prpplague although I guess |
| 04:48.52 | flyback | you guys been using solid caps standard for yrs already anyways |
| 04:48.59 | flyback | what's your feeling on the situation |
| 04:49.11 | flyback | how 2 major cap plagues have finally pushed the pc makerstoward solid caps |
| 04:49.16 | flyback | and this will lead to the price falling |
| 04:49.49 | flyback | even I know |
| 04:49.53 | flyback | you could have God on a soc |
| 04:50.03 | flyback | and it's worth jack s*** if it gets crappy power and noisy i/o |
| 04:51.55 | flyback | just curious on the opinion from a expert :P |
| 04:52.08 | flyback | also have you seen the new xmas tree walmart and home depot selling |
| 04:52.48 | flyback | has plastic white bulbs with rgb leds inside and in the center a controller b oard that plays music and sequences the leds so it's almost like a dot matrix display |
| 04:53.12 | flyback | oh you are in other channels too |
| 04:53.19 | flyback | I gues I will limit the spam here then |
| 04:53.29 | cajaka | I just saw those in the biglots next to where I work |
| 04:53.46 | flyback | WTF |
| 04:53.52 | flyback | the real thing or a cheap knock off? |
| 04:54.30 | flyback | walmart one is $199 and the home depot one I dunno if it's the same but you get 2 trees has gone down to $150 from $199 |
| 04:54.37 | flyback | man if it gets down to around $125 or so |
| 04:54.42 | flyback | I might be twempted |
| 04:55.02 | prpplague | flyback might want to take a break, you are getting a little wound up this evening |
| 04:55.11 | cajaka | Im not sure theylook like and sound like the ones in home depo, although they are sould in boxes of to for about I think $100 |
| 04:55.32 | flyback | ok prpplague |
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| 04:56.05 | prpplague | later folks |
| 04:56.53 | cajaka | Ack I need to sit up and type, there was to many typo's in that last msg |
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| 06:59.19 | geckosenator | hi pepsi |
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| 14:44.54 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 14:50.01 | chouimat|work | prpplague: ok one of those day ... |
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| 17:20.37 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe got a post on the arm web site - http://www.arm.com/iqonline/news/marketnews/19107.html |
| 17:20.41 | prpplague | Crofton: greetings |
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| 17:24.59 | prpplague | T0mW: ho ho ho, merry freakin thursday |
| 17:25.50 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah |
| 17:25.56 | T0mW | prpplague: doing my first 4 layer board |
| 17:26.17 | prpplague | T0mW: "first" ? |
| 17:26.26 | prpplague | T0mW: i thought you'd done multilayer before |
| 17:28.34 | T0mW | prpplague: I've avoid them due to the high cost of prototyping. Advanced circuits now has a $66 special for four layer boards, and, this board here really needs it. |
| 17:28.48 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:32.48 | Crofton | gm |
| 17:32.56 | prpplague | Crofton: whats cookin? |
| 17:33.00 | Crofton | not much |
| 17:33.20 | Crofton | D-5 and procrastinating slides |
| 17:33.46 | MothaWork | T0mW: yeah, the $66/ea special is great |
| 17:35.07 | T0mW | MonMotha: more layers to think in... |
| 17:38.13 | chouimat|work | prpplague: nice |
| 17:38.56 | prpplague | T0mW: didn't know you did that..... think that is |
| 17:39.04 | MothaWork | T0mW: I did a 8 layer design recently |
| 17:39.08 | MothaWork | now that is expensive to prototype |
| 17:39.50 | T0mW | prpplague: heh, sometimes the sludge clears |
| 17:43.10 | T0mW | you know what sux? I will spend all this time routing this board, prototype it, fix the errors, and present the finished board files to the customer. They, then will take my schematic and redo the board in their CAD package. |
| 17:44.13 | prpplague | hehe funny |
| 17:45.41 | T0mW | and, of course, I will have to figure out what they fsck'ed up on the new board layout... |
| 17:46.13 | T0mW | Only because they have a policy that their boards must be done in XXX CAD package. heh |
| 17:46.23 | T0mW | "standardization" |
| 17:49.42 | T0mW | I know, what should I care as long as I get paid? |
| 17:51.57 | CosmicPenguin | because you are a proud nerd |
| 17:51.59 | CosmicPenguin | thats why |
| 17:53.55 | Crofton | picture is WS, banner ads risky :) |
| 17:53.57 | Crofton | http://www.ilovebacon.com/112907/d.shtml |
| 17:54.35 | prpplague | Crofton: work safe? |
| 17:54.46 | Crofton | yeah |
| 17:54.57 | Crofton | some ads are not, but my page is WS |
| 17:55.12 | Crofton | and the subject is on tipic, given CP's remark :) |
| 17:56.29 | CosmicPenguin | nerdiness is always on topic here |
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| 18:02.01 | prpplague | is there any way to get evince to buffer more pages in a pdf? i hate it when it is always showing "loading...." when i flip datasheet pages |
| 18:02.52 | CosmicPenguin | yeah - install xpdf |
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| 18:03.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was afraid you were going to say that |
| 18:04.28 | CosmicPenguin | evince is horrible |
| 18:04.31 | CosmicPenguin | horrible |
| 18:04.39 | CosmicPenguin | the ubuntu version doesn't even understand how to use the toc |
| 18:04.46 | CosmicPenguin | I mean - isn't that basic thinking? |
| 18:04.54 | CosmicPenguin | how am I supposed to navigate a 500 page datasheet? |
| 18:05.16 | prpplague | indeed |
| 18:07.34 | prpplague | yikes |
| 18:07.40 | prpplague | tons of dependencies |
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| 19:50.20 | Crofton | ~seen valverde |
| 19:50.24 | purl | Crofton: i haven't seen 'valverde' |
| 19:52.05 | prpplague | chouimat|work: i knew it!! you canadian @#$@#$^#^ - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313844,00.html |
| 19:52.31 | chouimat|work | prpplague: http://www.mcrd.ath.cx/drums.jpg |
| 19:58.01 | prpplague | oh just freaking great - http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2007kha5.php |
| 19:58.12 | prpplague | my wife can't thru to her family :( |
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| 20:02.49 | prpplague | ho ho hum, just great |
| 20:03.15 | Crofton | I would guess not many problem on Barbados |
| 20:04.57 | prpplague | we are getting reports of rock slides and extremely high tidal surges |
| 20:05.03 | prpplague | but its only second hand |
| 20:05.16 | prpplague | it looks like all the phone lines and internet are down |
| 20:06.51 | Crofton | nothing in the news .... |
| 20:07.37 | prpplague | yea, that doesn't surprise me |
| 20:07.52 | prpplague | they generally don't report that kind of stuff for the west indies |
| 20:10.05 | Crofton | nothing on bbc |
| 20:10.09 | prpplague | Crofton: just a generic statement out on the AP wire |
| 20:10.30 | prpplague | http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?/base/international-12/1196365451202770.xml&storylist=international |
| 20:17.17 | prpplague | Crofton: wife finally got thru |
| 20:17.28 | prpplague | Crofton: the have the island pretty much closed down |
| 20:17.42 | prpplague | Crofton: reports that the airport traffic control tower is damaged |
| 20:17.52 | prpplague | Crofton: and a bunch of houses damaged |
| 20:18.26 | prpplague | Crofton: all the beaches are closed and the tourists are all moved to higher floors of hotels |
| 20:23.54 | Crofton | my wife's, sister's daughter is from Dominica |
| 20:24.03 | Crofton | I think he is back there |
| 20:24.16 | Crofton | he seemed to be useless sort of father |
| 20:25.06 | prpplague | Crofton: stangely enough, and this is just my opinion, i find that a common sentiment about west indian males |
| 20:25.16 | Crofton | heh |
| 20:25.22 | Crofton | Her sister is crazy |
| 20:25.34 | Crofton | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7120018.stm |
| 20:29.55 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.prh.noaa.gov/pr/ptwc/messages/caribe/2007/caribe.2007.11.29.190944.txt |
| 20:31.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea i read that, but even they say that, from what i'm hearing there was alot of damage |
| 20:32.17 | CosmicPenguin | Oh, I'm sure |
| 20:32.32 | CosmicPenguin | but tsunamis are double plus bad on top of the damage |
| 20:32.34 | CosmicPenguin | with a twist |
| 20:32.42 | prpplague | indeed |
| 20:33.10 | prpplague | aparently the cruise ship dock area is closed and its about 10 feet above normal |
| 20:33.30 | CosmicPenguin | thats a pretty good surge |
| 20:35.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yep |
| 21:33.57 | roxfan | say, is there someone here from eu who can desolder and dump a bga flash chip? |
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| 21:39.59 | prpplague | roxfan: thats a pretty big challenge |
| 21:40.11 | prpplague | roxfan: whats wrong with dumping it from the device its connected to? |
| 21:40.30 | roxfan | no known interface to do that |
| 21:40.50 | roxfan | it's rio karma btw |
| 21:41.53 | prpplague | what processor does that run on? |
| 21:43.05 | roxfan | portaplayer 5003, i think |
| 21:44.57 | roxfan | http://www.karmalimbo.com/pics/DSC01027r_resize.jpg here's the board |
| 21:46.06 | CosmicPenguin | that is a terrible shot |
| 21:46.39 | roxfan | yeah |
| 21:46.46 | roxfan | can't find better ones atm :) |
| 21:51.00 | roxfan | http://i5.tinypic.com/73jxgk8.jpg a bit better one |
| 21:52.10 | chouimat|work | yup PP5003 |
| 21:52.32 | CosmicPenguin | indeed |
| 21:53.12 | roxfan | the flash chip is intel at top right, i think |
| 21:53.55 | roxfan | 28F320C3B |
| 21:57.36 | prpplague | roxfan: pp5003 is arm based and has jtag |
| 21:58.18 | roxfan | how do i access that? |
| 21:58.44 | roxfan | is it J5 thing at the right? |
| 22:00.37 | prpplague | roxfan: i don't see anything that jumps out as a jtag |
| 22:01.42 | roxfan | well, i don't have any hardware anyway... so i'd prefer just to send it to someone |
| 22:02.07 | prpplague | roxfan: it is going to cost you atleast 4 or 5 times the amount to do the bga package than to purchase a jtag dongle |
| 22:02.34 | roxfan | hrm |
| 22:04.52 | roxfan | so let's assume i get one |
| 22:05.05 | roxfan | how do i go about finding connectors? |
| 22:06.24 | prpplague | roxfan: usually i just depopulate a board and then trace the package it |
| 22:07.10 | prpplague | roxfan: is there a good picture of the other side of the board |
| 22:07.46 | roxfan | it's covered by a white sheet of some insulation (the hdd is screwed to it) |
| 22:08.38 | prpplague | roxfan: ahh i'm guessing the jtag pins are hidden below that |
| 22:09.20 | roxfan | well i guess i could remove mine and took some pics if you think that helps... |
| 22:09.31 | T0mW | MonMotha: I got into the habit of using a 6mil trace w/double-side cards, now the 4 layer I can go back to 10mil traces. |
| 22:14.54 | prpplague | roxfan: looks like xagor on #rockbox has some datasheets |
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| 22:15.14 | roxfan | how does that help me? |
| 22:16.44 | prpplague | roxfan: i.e. ask zagor for the datasheet |
| 22:16.59 | roxfan | well i mean |
| 22:17.04 | roxfan | having the datasheet |
| 22:17.21 | davidc__ | roxfan: you can dump it via jtag |
| 22:17.26 | davidc__ | roxfan: if you can find the jtag connector |
| 22:17.34 | roxfan | yes, if... |
| 22:17.39 | davidc__ | rox - J9 looks possibly jtag-ish if nothing else connects to it |
| 22:18.06 | hapchap | hehe... "jatag-ish" |
| 22:18.31 | davidc__ | well, I count 20 pins on it, std arm jtag is a 20 pin header |
| 22:18.40 | prpplague | davidc__: wheres j9? |
| 22:18.48 | davidc__ | top right of the image he posted |
| 22:19.09 | davidc__ | anyhow - I found the jtag on the ipod by just pulling the PP chip off a board + tracing signals |
| 22:19.18 | davidc__ | then on another, connecting up jtag |
| 22:19.29 | roxfan | battery daugtherboard is connected there |
| 22:19.30 | roxfan | http://www.karmalimbo.com/pics/DSC01023r_resize.jpg |
| 22:20.01 | hapchap | or top left on the other pic |
| 22:20.13 | davidc__ | hrm.. got pix of the backside? |
| 22:20.20 | hapchap | sadly no... |
| 22:20.22 | roxfan | <roxfan> it's covered by a white sheet of some insulation (the hdd is screwed to it) |
| 22:20.33 | prpplague | hapchap: ahh wrong pic |
| 22:20.54 | davidc__ | roxfan: hrm, maybe some acetone to strip that? |
| 22:21.03 | davidc__ | eh, you might be best off looking at the PP ds |
| 22:21.04 | hapchap | prpplague: davidc__ is right... it does look very jtag-ish |
| 22:21.13 | roxfan | lemme try to peel it off |
| 22:21.13 | davidc__ | and pulling the PP chip |
| 22:21.20 | davidc__ | and soldering wires to the pins used for the flash interface |
| 22:21.26 | davidc__ | and just building an interface to read it out |
| 22:21.34 | prpplague | doesn't the battery board plug into J9 ? |
| 22:21.43 | davidc__ | I've pulled off one of those PP chips just using a toaster oven, but dunno what that'd do to the flash contents |
| 22:22.05 | hapchap | how expensive is this device? could you buy one to tear up and trace out the jtag? |
| 22:22.23 | prpplague | davidc__: the jtag connections for the ipod, were that just pads? |
| 22:22.50 | davidc__ | pads for a flat flex connector |
| 22:22.52 | roxfan | hapchap: i can send you mine |
| 22:23.08 | davidc__ | hmm.. d;you have a closer zoomed in image of near the PP chip? |
| 22:23.08 | prpplague | davidc__: ahh |
| 22:23.19 | davidc__ | some test pads there near the corner that has JTAG [IIRC} |
| 22:23.36 | roxfan | ok stripped off the white thingy... i'll try to see if i can get any good pics |
| 22:24.02 | hapchap | roxfan: i was just thinking that if they were cheap, buy one, rip off the bga and find the jtag traces from teh data sheet |
| 22:24.06 | davidc__ | roxfan: actually - I'd look closer near the top of the PP chip[left side] [oriented by the text] |
| 22:24.24 | davidc__ | there are a ~10 pads there, without refdes, and interesting silkscreen |
| 22:24.37 | davidc__ | and IIRC< the jtag is right up in that corner of the PP's I'm familiar with |
| 22:24.47 | davidc__ | [pinout might be different on the '03 though] |
| 22:24.48 | roxfan | refdes? |
| 22:24.54 | davidc__ | reference designator |
| 22:24.58 | davidc__ | no R30, or C20 |
| 22:25.40 | prpplague | ahh yea i missed those |
| 22:25.44 | prpplague | hard to see in the picture |
| 22:25.50 | davidc__ | yeah, but I;d poke at those. |
| 22:26.01 | davidc__ | I got openocd to talk to the PP chips once... was a bit flaky, but worked |
| 22:26.13 | davidc__ | I think the flakyness was mostly my HW though |
| 22:26.14 | prpplague | fun fun |
| 22:26.23 | prpplague | davidc__: what were you using? |
| 22:26.37 | davidc__ | oh, for jtag? just a paralell port cable IIRC |
| 22:26.58 | davidc__ | with a bunch of wires stuffed in the header soldered to the board |
| 22:27.09 | davidc__ | but it was a poor soldering job [to vias that has soldermask scratched off em] |
| 22:27.16 | davidc__ | and the wires weren't all that short |
| 22:28.24 | davidc__ | anyhow.. gotta run. Good luck roxfan |
| 22:30.45 | prpplague | davidc__: hehe fun |
| 22:33.57 | prpplague | davidc__: how did you end up with the pinouts for the pp5003? |
| 22:34.24 | roxfan | wow those pads are tiny |
| 22:37.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:37.10 | prpplague | not that tiny |
| 22:37.22 | prpplague | roxfan: when you need a microscope, thats tiny |
| 22:43.00 | roxfan | well, i have a friend who should be good at soldering... so where do i get this jtag thingy? |
| 22:43.47 | prpplague | roxfan: there are a ton of them available, the most common these days is a usb based one |
| 22:44.24 | roxfan | yeah i bet there are. what specifically do you recommend? |
| 22:44.42 | prpplague | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=1_26 or http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16134&cat=0&page=1&featured |
| 22:45.31 | roxfan | fifty bucks hmm |
| 22:47.42 | prpplague | too expensive? you can build your own - http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/Customizing/Hardware/JTAG_Cable http://www.lartmaker.nl/projects/jtag/ http://hri.sourceforge.net/tools/ |
| 22:49.28 | flyback | prpplague |
| 22:49.39 | flyback | any of those jtag's compatible with most devices |
| 22:49.42 | flyback | such as cable routers |
| 22:53.32 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-26-24.westend.de) |
| 22:55.12 | prpplague | flyback: yea most are |
| 22:55.27 | prpplague | jtag is jtag, as long as the voltage for the level shifting is supported |
| 22:55.27 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 22:55.36 | flyback | hmm |
| 22:55.49 | flyback | quick question |
| 22:56.01 | flyback | I got what appears to be a discreit ttl to rs232 adaptor |
| 22:56.08 | flyback | diodes on the first 5 pins + 3 transistors |
| 22:56.29 | flyback | it appears to be for +5 but not sure, it seems to work with webpal |
| 22:56.43 | flyback | any easy way to convert that to +3.3 |
| 22:59.55 | flyback | hmm doesn't say it's voltages |
| 23:04.33 | flyback | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:04.34 | flyback | [18:04] <flyback> was looking at some of that pvc they use for cabling, and saw that my motor for my windmill fit nice and snug |
| 23:04.34 | flyback | [18:04] <flyback> only one problem it wouldn't come back out and it was a $15 expansion joint |
| 23:04.34 | flyback | [18:04] <flyback> SON OF A CANUCK |
| 23:05.32 | flyback | stil it does make a sexy nacell so it wasn't a total loss :) |
| 23:06.35 | flyback | now I just have to figure out shit like wiring on a turning device, preventing water from getting into the motor and preventing bugs from nesting in any water drain holes |
| 23:06.36 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.144.160) |
| 23:08.31 | prpplague | dijenerate: shaking down there? |
| 23:11.33 | dijenerate | yeah... not so bad here as Martinique |
| 23:12.42 | dijenerate | the had a magnitude 7.3 just off their coast that was what we felt and was felt all the way to Tortola and in the opposite direction in Guyana |
| 23:14.53 | hapchap | prpplague: remember that typo in the rfup script we fixed right before we shipped that unit to ohio? |
| 23:15.10 | hapchap | prpplague: it is what broke the roaming |
| 23:16.20 | hapchap | prpplague: the 8385 driver seems to overwrite its SSID from any iwconfig call even if the essid is not being set |
| 23:16.35 | hapchap | could be a problem in iwlib, iwconfig, or the 8835 driver |
| 23:17.36 | hapchap | prpplague: i am guessing it is the 8835 driver because this is the same way i am handling the atheros radios (and i think the ralink one) |
| 23:18.13 | hapchap | s/8835/8385/g |
| 23:18.35 | hapchap | purl: :) |
| 23:18.35 | purl | (: |
| 23:20.56 | prpplague | hapchap: one sec, on the phone with mr.herod |
| 23:49.12 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-65-67-67-84.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
