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| 01:03.35 | MonMotha | T0mW: pong |
| 01:24.56 | T0mW | MonMotha: still there? |
| 01:25.38 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 01:26.34 | T0mW | I would like to learn something about building BGA boards, do you know of some reading that I could do about layout techniques, general guidelines for layer counts, etc. |
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| 01:27.20 | T0mW | for example, would you use a via as a ball contact point or use a pad and why. |
| 01:31.30 | MonMotha | T0mW: short of google, not really |
| 01:31.34 | MonMotha | I can suggest some search terms, though |
| 01:31.42 | MonMotha | generally, people do NOT use a via as the ball contact point |
| 01:31.55 | MonMotha | it causes problems during reflow, since the solder flows into the via (unless it plates shut) |
| 01:32.07 | T0mW | np, I just thought that you may have already seen some URLs |
| 01:32.12 | MonMotha | unfortunately no |
| 01:32.16 | T0mW | k |
| 01:32.27 | MonMotha | as for layer counts, it's pretty easy to determine a minimum |
| 01:32.47 | MonMotha | you can get 2 rows brought out on top, two on the next down, then one on each row after that |
| 01:32.50 | T0mW | just run out of room and add another layer, heh |
| 01:33.15 | MonMotha | if you can bring out directly on each side, you're OK, but if you have to go in weird ways, then you may need extra layers |
| 01:33.25 | T0mW | ok |
| 01:33.28 | T0mW | thanks |
| 01:33.38 | MonMotha | BGAs with center cutouts are also good because you can put bypass caps in the center cutout on the bottom of the board |
| 01:34.06 | T0mW | yeah, I've seen them do that |
| 01:34.20 | MonMotha | the first BGA I ever did a layout on was a 324 ball 0.8mm pitch with no center cutout |
| 01:34.23 | MonMotha | pain in the ass... |
| 01:35.02 | T0mW | MonMotha: Advanced Circuits is offering prototype assembly, that has been the biggest roadblock to BGA has been where to get them mounted to the PCB |
| 01:35.12 | MonMotha | yeah, and they can do BGA assembly |
| 01:35.17 | MonMotha | Screaming Circuits also does a good job |
| 01:35.22 | T0mW | noted |
| 01:35.30 | MonMotha | the biggest issue I have with these tight pitch BGAs is getting the PCB made, actually |
| 01:35.45 | MonMotha | for 0.8mm, I had to go to 4/4 line/space in order to keep 8mil finished hole size |
| 01:35.51 | MonMotha | which is about the smallest you can get with mechanical drills |
| 01:35.59 | T0mW | yeah, you will pay extra for the resolution |
| 01:36.04 | MonMotha | advanced circuits can't make that board at all |
| 01:36.17 | MonMotha | they are limited to 5/5 |
| 01:36.26 | MonMotha | or perhaps even 6/6 |
| 01:36.30 | T0mW | interesting, I thought that they had a fully laser operation |
| 01:36.37 | MonMotha | only for their flex process |
| 01:36.41 | T0mW | oh |
| 01:36.50 | MonMotha | I've never made a FPC |
| 01:36.53 | MonMotha | need to try some time |
| 01:37.35 | T0mW | well, I have a server that I took down 30 minutes ago. I'll talk with you later, thanks |
| 01:38.17 | MonMotha | ok |
| 01:57.30 | jbevren | hm how does one indent on the wiki? hehe |
| 01:58.02 | T0mW | I dunno, it seems that it depends on the flavor of the wiki code |
| 01:58.19 | T0mW | I struggled with the one on elinux and finally gave up. |
| 01:59.44 | jbevren | heh |
| 01:59.52 | jbevren | or a bullted list maybe? |
| 02:17.39 | jbevren | http://elinux.org/Hammer_SID_Interface |
| 02:17.43 | jbevren | yay I finally posted |
| 02:18.49 | jbevren | only one issue: The link to ucapps.de heh |
| 02:27.17 | flyback- | hahha |
| 02:27.21 | flyback- | OWNS YOUR CANUCK~ |
| 02:34.57 | flyback- | jbevren: |
| 02:35.02 | flyback- | what do you use as glue logic |
| 02:35.05 | flyback- | for +3.3 to +5 |
| 02:54.37 | jbevren | a lot of 74ALVC chips are 5v friendly |
| 03:06.16 | flyback- | that doesn't answer my quesrion |
| 03:06.26 | flyback- | wtf do I use to let +5 and +3.3 stuff talk safely |
| 03:06.30 | flyback- | without problems |
| 03:06.51 | jbevren | a lot of 74ALVC chips are 5v friendly |
| 03:06.53 | jbevren | :P |
| 03:06.57 | jbevren | some CPLDs do too |
| 03:07.00 | flyback- | bite my "CANUCK" |
| 03:07.01 | flyback- | :P |
| 03:08.28 | flyback- | wow |
| 03:08.33 | flyback- | 1.2v 74 series logic |
| 03:11.50 | jbevren | lol no |
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| 03:13.27 | flyback- | man |
| 03:13.35 | flyback- | it looks like 74 series logic will never die |
| 03:13.49 | jbevren | hell no :P |
| 03:14.39 | flyback- | no it will die or not it won't |
| 03:14.44 | jbevren | hell no it wont |
| 03:14.53 | jbevren | no matter what the voltage, hobbyists will keep the 7400s alive |
| 03:15.08 | flyback- | well I mean even the semi companies keep spitting it out |
| 03:15.12 | flyback- | there must be a decent demand |
| 03:15.16 | jbevren | there is :) |
| 03:15.29 | flyback- | how low can voltages go? |
| 03:15.38 | flyback- | I thought the limit was 0.6 |
| 03:15.51 | flyback- | and btw how the hell do calculators work with 0.5 solar cells? |
| 03:15.54 | jbevren | sounds about right for germanium junctions |
| 03:15.58 | jbevren | lol |
| 03:16.02 | jbevren | voltage inverters |
| 03:16.03 | flyback- | then again I get pissed off at bugs in linux and 30 seconds later |
| 03:16.07 | flyback- | I can remeber I got pissed off |
| 03:16.10 | flyback- | but I can't remeber why |
| 03:16.15 | jbevren | like my mp3 player |
| 03:16.18 | flyback- | I porbably have a huge tumor in my head |
| 03:16.18 | jbevren | its ICs need 3.3v |
| 03:16.23 | jbevren | but it runs on a single AAA |
| 03:16.31 | flyback- | dude you are telling me a cheap $1 chink calc |
| 03:16.33 | jbevren | the mp3 decoder chip has an upconverter builtin |
| 03:16.36 | flyback- | has a voltage boost circuit in it? |
| 03:16.39 | jbevren | yeah why not? |
| 03:16.54 | jbevren | most solars though dont have a .5v solar panel |
| 03:17.02 | jbevren | its probably a series of panels on one piece of glass |
| 03:17.09 | jbevren | so they generate 3v or more |
| 03:17.09 | flyback- | dude |
| 03:17.12 | flyback- | they have 0.5 |
| 03:17.19 | flyback- | cause people buy the calcs for beambots |
| 03:17.31 | jbevren | .5 at what current? :) |
| 03:17.43 | jbevren | remember cals use nanoamps (exaggerating) |
| 03:17.56 | flyback- | so what does that have to do with voltage |
| 03:18.04 | jbevren | solar cells have a high resistance |
| 03:18.11 | jbevren | the heavier you laod them, the less their output voltage is |
| 03:18.11 | SpeedEvil | look at teh number of squares on the calc - how many is it divided into. |
| 03:18.33 | jbevren | I like to think of solar cells in terms of wattage |
| 03:18.40 | jbevren | at a lower load, they have higher voltage |
| 03:18.41 | SpeedEvil | the open-circuit voltage wil typically be .5V* that |
| 03:18.41 | flyback- | ugh |
| 03:18.44 | jbevren | at higher load, they have less |
| 03:18.47 | flyback- | the more I dig into this shit |
| 03:18.52 | flyback- | the more I get confused |
| 03:18.55 | jbevren | hehe |
| 03:20.01 | flyback- | doesn't matter I doubt I am going to make it thru this week of work |
| 03:20.04 | flyback- | I am going to snap |
| 03:20.06 | flyback- | oh well |
| 03:20.12 | flyback- | here lies another waste of sperm |
| 03:20.19 | flyback- | good riddance to bad rubbish |
| 04:03.25 | flyback- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vig70HXJKvI&feature=related# |
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| 14:33.22 | prpplague | morning all |
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| 14:42.21 | chouimat|work | prpplague: try this http://xkcd.com/323/ |
| 14:42.57 | prpplague | chouimat: yea found it yesterday, thanks |
| 14:50.13 | GPSFan | prpplague: morning. |
| 14:50.39 | prpplague | GPSFan: greetings |
| 14:51.11 | GPSFan | prpplague: did you send off that usb bluetooth dongle? |
| 14:51.30 | prpplague | GPSFan: not sure, ill have to check on it |
| 14:51.38 | GPSFan | k, thanks. |
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| 16:08.36 | prpplague | hehe, so verizon is trying to pull a mattel |
| 16:10.46 | prpplague | i hope this goes to trial |
| 16:10.53 | prpplague | there really needs to be a precedent |
| 16:15.21 | prpplague | GPSFan: ping |
| 16:16.11 | GPSFan | prpplague: ding |
| 16:16.28 | prpplague | GPSFan: hey , i need a contact phone number |
| 16:17.26 | prpplague | GPSFan: thanks |
| 16:17.41 | GPSFan | np |
| 16:18.02 | chouimat|work | prpplague: about what? the verizon thingy? |
| 16:18.44 | agaffney | prpplague: what is verizon doing? |
| 16:19.59 | prpplague | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2007120713435029 |
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| 16:23.49 | agaffney | hmm |
| 16:24.18 | GPSFan | prpplague: once they finish with Verizon, then they can go after all the other telco's that use actiontec wireless routers. |
| 16:25.02 | prpplague | GPSFan: well if it succeeds, then they can go after mattel |
| 16:25.16 | prpplague | GPSFan: since mattel has skirted the GPL for years using the same argument |
| 16:25.54 | GPSFan | prpplague: it's that argument that needs defeating. |
| 16:26.04 | prpplague | yep |
| 16:27.15 | prpplague | GPSFan: based on just a random sampling, i'm guessing mattel is distributing atleast 5 products without GPL distribution |
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| 16:28.00 | prpplague | isenbeck_ecs: greetings |
| 16:28.08 | prpplague | isenbeck_ecs: you get the kids ok? |
| 16:47.30 | hapchap_ | prpplague: ping |
| 16:47.39 | prpplague | hapchap_: pong |
| 16:47.48 | hapchap_ | prpplague: http://192.168.100.60/bc/ |
| 16:48.09 | hapchap_ | prpplague: my house |
| 16:48.16 | hapchap_ | prpplague: 40 MiB though |
| 16:48.26 | prpplague | looking now |
| 16:48.41 | hapchap_ | prpplague: have sound? |
| 16:49.09 | prpplague | hapchap_: no speakers, i can't ever seem to find time to get a set |
| 16:49.32 | hapchap_ | prpplague: headphones? |
| 16:50.00 | prpplague | yea, i got a set somewhere, droe has some |
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| 17:01.53 | prpplague | hapchap_: wahooo!!!!! that rocks! |
| 17:04.59 | hapchap_ | prpplague: after i filmed it last night, i realized i have 8 channels out on the big tree on the right so that is why it doesnt look very full..i think i have a bad 595 chip |
| 17:05.06 | hapchap_ | prpplague: all run by the hammer |
| 17:05.32 | prpplague | hapchap_: hehe i thought it looked off but wasn't sure |
| 17:05.51 | hapchap_ | prpplague: i need to draw up schematics of everything and get it up on the tubes |
| 17:07.25 | prpplague | hapchap_: you got a mp3 on the way |
| 17:08.06 | hapchap_ | prpplague: of? |
| 17:08.18 | prpplague | hapchap_: hehe, you'll just have to listen |
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| 17:12.12 | prpplague | hehe, anyone got some space for hapchap_ to upload his video? |
| 17:12.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, you got 40mb of space hehe? |
| 17:14.08 | CosmicPenguin | nope |
| 17:14.13 | CosmicPenguin | I'm tapped out |
| 17:14.14 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:14.29 | prpplague | don't think we can upload 40mb to elinux |
| 17:14.38 | prpplague | right off the bat without configuring it |
| 17:16.07 | prpplague | wmat: is there a limit for the max upload at elinux? |
| 17:21.32 | prpplague | no telling how long it will take to upload via http |
| 17:28.49 | langsweirdt_ | what kind of video? |
| 17:29.21 | langsweirdt_ | i mean, what is it about? |
| 17:29.26 | prpplague | langsweirdt_: hapchap_ has all his xmas lights synced to music using a hammer board |
| 17:30.06 | langsweirdt_ | nice |
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| 17:44.25 | wmat | prpplague: not to my knowledge |
| 17:44.44 | wmat | prpplague: btw, I'll be moving the site again very shortly |
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| 18:13.31 | prpplague | wmat: okie dokie, we need to make sure we do a good backup before the move |
| 18:13.46 | prpplague | wmat: i was unable to upload the video |
| 18:17.40 | isenbeck_ecs | prpplague, yeah i got em allright |
| 18:17.47 | isenbeck_ecs | they were tired |
| 18:17.56 | isenbeck_ecs | prpplague, but fed well and ready to come home |
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| 20:17.40 | CosmicPenguin | I just got a new board we designed to break out LPC on one of our platforms |
| 20:17.54 | CosmicPenguin | It uses the brightest LEDs for the POST codes that I've ever seen |
| 20:18.04 | CosmicPenguin | like, you can't look directly at them bright |
| 20:20.21 | shabble | remote debugging? :) |
| 20:45.27 | CosmicPenguin | like, on the moon, remote? |
| 20:45.48 | CosmicPenguin | the upside is that you don't need to write down the post code, just shut your eyes and look at the after image |
| 20:46.42 | chouimat|work | CosmicPenguin: if you're not blind :) |
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| 21:07.30 | ds2 | heh.. the LPC can directly drive 3W luxeons? ;) |
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| 22:14.56 | flyback | yo |
| 22:17.48 | flyback | http://developer.sonyericsson.com/thread.jspa?&threadID=5191&start=0 |
| 22:18.10 | flyback | if the lcd backing can be moved out of the way so I can shine a light thru it, it appears it's game on again for my fiber tree hack |
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| 23:59.14 | flyback- | flyback-: I got the phone lcd apart |
| 23:59.14 | flyback- | (18:57:40) flyback-: it's transparentable |