| 00:01.10 | *** join/#edev davidc__ (n=davidc__@S01060002b360aacd.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 00:01.55 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-210-234.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 00:27.52 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:28.23 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 00:28.31 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 00:31.39 | joe_bleau | Nail board, eh? Continuing the hammer theme? |
| 00:33.48 | ds2 | don't forget a 'smashed thumb' ;) |
| 00:34.02 | joe_bleau | Yeah, that's exactly where I was going! |
| 00:34.56 | adyer | at least it's not the 'Can't Touch This' board :-) |
| 00:35.51 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:35.53 | prpplague | funny |
| 00:36.13 | joe_bleau | When do we get to see the jackhammer? |
| 00:36.45 | prpplague | joe_bleau shortly after we release the sledgehammer |
| 00:57.26 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 00:58.23 | prpplague | cajaka i did some board tests this evening |
| 00:58.40 | prpplague | cajaka looks like we'll be able sandwich the hammer inbetween two boards |
| 00:59.41 | ds2 | hammer cage to contain pure and wild hammer |
| 01:00.06 | prpplague | cajaka just gotta decide what options to add |
| 01:04.33 | prpplague | ds2 the big question is about the 10baseT |
| 01:04.48 | prpplague | to me it doesn't seem that useful |
| 01:05.00 | prpplague | on a device designed to be plugged into a pc |
| 01:10.38 | cajaka | 100 or 10 doesn't really matter to me, did you still have to sacrifice I/O like you mentioned before? |
| 01:12.25 | prpplague | cajaka yea its more space that is the issue |
| 01:12.44 | prpplague | to me a fob doesn't really need wired ethernet |
| 01:13.17 | ds2 | IMO, having ethernet on there is stupid (sorry,but that's my HO) |
| 01:13.45 | ds2 | if you are adding that,whynot drop in a coffee warmer, perhaps a little welder |
| 01:13.56 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:13.56 | ds2 | ethernet just guzzles power |
| 01:14.11 | prpplague | ds2 what would you have instead? |
| 01:14.21 | chouimat | ds2: not just a coffee warmer ... a capucino machine |
| 01:14.23 | ds2 | prpplague: I'd just use USB net |
| 01:14.32 | ds2 | prehaps bluetooth |
| 01:14.51 | ds2 | but remember, I was the one that wanted 2AA support so I am all for lowest possible power |
| 01:15.34 | prpplague | ds2 i think we are talking two different items |
| 01:15.50 | ds2 | prpplague: I think all these small system should be low powered |
| 01:15.54 | prpplague | ds2 i'm talking about a dev platform similiar to a usb thumb drive |
| 01:16.12 | ds2 | prpplague: right, like the USB Stix for the gumstix |
| 01:16.40 | prpplague | ds2 not really, something a little different |
| 01:16.48 | ds2 | oh? different in what way? |
| 01:17.29 | chouimat | prpplague: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/iguessishou128391036785156250.jpg |
| 01:18.14 | prpplague | chouimat hehe |
| 01:18.22 | prpplague | ds2 got a url for the usb stix handy |
| 01:18.26 | ds2 | one sec |
| 01:19.24 | prpplague | http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=105 |
| 01:19.26 | ds2 | me bad, the official name is thumbstix |
| 01:19.29 | prpplague | that what you are talking about |
| 01:19.39 | ds2 | yeah, that's what I was about to paste |
| 01:20.16 | prpplague | yea, what we want different is a dev platform, that is more of just an add on i/o module |
| 01:20.41 | ds2 | not sure what more would you get |
| 01:21.03 | prpplague | ds2 jtag, leds, buttons, adc device |
| 01:21.05 | ds2 | granted the hammer can do USB host and the original gumstix can't |
| 01:21.30 | ds2 | hmmmm jtag as in connnector or onboard hookup to the jtag so it can be used for flashing? |
| 01:22.37 | prpplague | ds2 onboard hookup, the jtag can be done throught the same usb connector |
| 01:22.55 | prpplague | ds2 one usb connection gets you console port and jtag |
| 01:22.57 | ds2 | Hmmm so you that thing will have an onboard hub? |
| 01:23.00 | prpplague | ds2 plus power |
| 01:23.13 | prpplague | ds2 no need, the ft2232 supports both |
| 01:23.18 | ds2 | why not also bring out a USB client on the same port |
| 01:23.28 | ds2 | Oh that's why, you are cheating and not using a hub ;) |
| 01:23.29 | prpplague | ds2 to what end? |
| 01:23.38 | ds2 | developing USB gadget code |
| 01:23.38 | prpplague | ds2 yep |
| 01:24.12 | ds2 | btw, I think a diode in line might be a good thing to have |
| 01:24.20 | prpplague | ds2 ?? |
| 01:24.29 | prpplague | inline to what? |
| 01:24.30 | ds2 | if people are using it on robots and stuff; it may get powered by the wrong thing and taking out someone's PCs is bad |
| 01:24.40 | ds2 | inline with the power to prevent back drive and overvoltage |
| 01:25.02 | prpplague | ds2 again i think you are missing the usage for this |
| 01:25.30 | ds2 | so you are saying people won't use this as a life line console access to their robots, etc? |
| 01:25.46 | MonMotha | ds2: my experience has been that a good number of hosts are reasonably tolerant of such things (and a good number are not) |
| 01:25.53 | prpplague | uh no, if they do thats not what its intended for |
| 01:26.07 | MonMotha | for a hobbyist development device, it may be a good idea, but can cause problems due to the drop |
| 01:26.10 | ds2 | Hmmm you have a much narrower use then I am thinking of |
| 01:26.19 | ds2 | MonMotha: trick is to identify which ones are tolerate ;) |
| 01:26.29 | MonMotha | brings you down to only ~1V above 3.3V |
| 01:26.29 | prpplague | ds2 probably |
| 01:26.42 | ds2 | schottky |
| 01:26.56 | ds2 | leaves you with bit more overhead in the worse case of 4.5V at the USB port |
| 01:27.23 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@adsl-76-197-33-46.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:27.24 | ds2 | prpplague: have you seen the Silab toolstix? |
| 01:27.42 | MonMotha | lowest I've seen schottkys that can handle any appreciable amount of current is about 0.4-0.5V |
| 01:27.44 | prpplague | i don't recall |
| 01:27.46 | prpplague | url? |
| 01:27.51 | ds2 | let me find it |
| 01:27.58 | MonMotha | you can get them lower, but only good to a few dozen mA, usually |
| 01:28.21 | ds2 | http://www.silabs.com/tgwWebApp/public/web_content/products/Microcontrollers/en/USBToolStick.htm |
| 01:29.07 | ds2 | that's an 8051 but but that gives you an "ICE" + program capability and during dev. I was plugging and unpluging that board to my host. took great pains to make sure only one source of power was on at once |
| 01:29.43 | prpplague | ds2 ahh yea i've seen those, circuit cellar had a contest |
| 01:30.19 | ds2 | I like the tookstick connector better then the MSP430 one...the MSP430 looked too fragile for all those plug/unplug cycles |
| 01:30.23 | prpplague | ds2 well that won;t be a problem, since there will only be one source of power |
| 01:31.47 | ds2 | prpplague: since you have a serial console in, do you guys support KGDB? |
| 01:32.05 | prpplague | ds2 think more like an ipaq without an lcd that you can work on via a usb connection |
| 01:32.22 | prpplague | ds2 yea, openocd supports kgdb debugging |
| 01:32.51 | ds2 | hmm so the USB portion is not setup to be easily removable? |
| 01:33.12 | prpplague | ds2 i'm sorry, i'm sure i understand what you are asking |
| 01:33.15 | *** join/#edev sstallion (n=sstallio@unaffiliated/icon) |
| 01:33.24 | prpplague | i/not |
| 01:33.24 | sstallion | evening all |
| 01:33.29 | prpplague | sstallion greetings |
| 01:33.29 | sstallion | any buildroot guys around? |
| 01:33.49 | prpplague | sstallion there are few, ask away, if someone knows and has the time to answer they will |
| 01:34.04 | sstallion | mostly trying to get buildroot shoehorned into an exsting project |
| 01:34.12 | sstallion | wanted to ask a few questions about externalizing config's etc. |
| 01:34.27 | ds2 | prpplague: if it is like a LCDless ipaq, then I assume once you snap on this carrier board; it is suppose to do everything until the final enclosure is ready? (vs a little board w/ZIF socket to let you go back and forth between a real system (with all the IO stuff attached) and the board) |
| 01:34.57 | prpplague | sstallion most people don't use external configs |
| 01:35.12 | sstallion | they just bury everything side of buildroot? |
| 01:35.20 | sstallion | s/side/inside/ |
| 01:35.38 | prpplague | ds2 ahh i see your logic, no, this board is it |
| 01:35.48 | ds2 | gotcha |
| 01:35.49 | prpplague | ds2 not suppose to go between the nail and something else |
| 01:36.13 | ds2 | so it is really more like a hardware QEMU (if that makes sense) |
| 01:36.25 | prpplague | ds2 more like you are stealing the keyboard and monitor of a pc to work on your ipaq |
| 01:36.38 | prpplague | ds2 exactly |
| 01:37.00 | prpplague | sstallion yea, we tend to complete builds inside buildroot |
| 01:37.22 | sstallion | hrmm |
| 01:37.35 | ds2 | prpplague: in that case, maybe an onboard "logic analyzer" might be useful (just something to log the state of the GPIO's over time and send it to the host PC) |
| 01:37.38 | prpplague | sstallion basically adding all the packages you need inside of buildroot |
| 01:37.43 | sstallion | do you guys have anything in your dists that arent a part of buildroot proper? |
| 01:37.45 | sstallion | ahh gotcha |
| 01:38.00 | sstallion | the only thing thats bothered me thus far was kernel support |
| 01:38.19 | sstallion | id prefer to just pull down 2.6.23.11, but thats not an option |
| 01:38.27 | prpplague | sstallion yea the kernel support inside buildroot is generally far behind |
| 01:38.49 | prpplague | sstallion but adding a current version is very easy, after all, its just another program to compile |
| 01:38.55 | sstallion | whave ive been doing is using buildroot just for the rootfs, and managing kernels and booting outside of the dir |
| 01:39.15 | prpplague | yea, thats common |
| 01:39.16 | sstallion | still fairly new to buildroot ;) started with a prototype last night |
| 01:39.21 | sstallion | i must say, its quite nice |
| 01:39.35 | sstallion | not much futzing to get a working rootfs image |
| 01:39.39 | prpplague | indeed tried and true for almost 10 years |
| 01:39.46 | sstallion | no kidding? |
| 01:39.52 | sstallion | im kicking myself for not finding it sooner :) |
| 01:40.05 | sstallion | all that time lost messing with toolchains |
| 01:40.30 | prpplague | hehe indeed can be pretty confusing |
| 01:40.43 | prpplague | sstallion what type of new board? |
| 01:40.47 | sstallion | busybox led me there... build a minimal busybox image using uclibc and buildroot - im extremely impressed |
| 01:41.01 | sstallion | just a small geode ref. board |
| 01:41.05 | sstallion | nothing too crazy |
| 01:41.12 | prpplague | sstallion hehe |
| 01:41.20 | prpplague | sstallion well you can to the right place for info |
| 01:41.37 | sstallion | working on a new project to create a san os and buildroot looks like a great fit for the project |
| 01:41.42 | prpplague | sstallion CosmicPenguin is the lead linux guru for amd's geode support |
| 01:41.52 | sstallion | ahh excellent |
| 01:42.10 | sstallion | maybe he can help me find the damned rdk's for purchase :) |
| 01:42.17 | sstallion | the new lx nas rdk looks quite nice |
| 01:42.45 | prpplague | sstallion yea, i'm sure he probably could point you in the right direction |
| 01:43.00 | sstallion | what bootloader do you guys prefer? |
| 01:43.10 | sstallion | ive been using extlinux on flash for a while now with a lot of luck |
| 01:43.27 | sstallion | ahh |
| 01:43.46 | sstallion | ive been curious about linuxbios, but i dont have any boards around that support it |
| 01:44.06 | prpplague | yea iirc CosmicPenguin has done some work with that |
| 01:44.07 | sstallion | the idea of embedding a kernel image and rootfs into firmware is tempting |
| 01:44.22 | sstallion | especially with some of the 8mbit chips floating around |
| 01:45.20 | prpplague | indeed |
| 01:45.29 | sstallion | prpplague: so do most of you guys just modify and check in buildroot into cvs/sccs/etc. ? |
| 01:45.43 | landley | prpplague: how did the prototype went? |
| 01:45.51 | prpplague | landley very well |
| 01:46.24 | prpplague | landley fully functional |
| 01:46.26 | prpplague | landley tinkering around now with how to fit everything into the smallest package |
| 01:46.32 | *** join/#edev Mirell (n=mirell@quiche.ling.utexas.edu) |
| 01:47.18 | joe_bleau | MonMotha: ping |
| 01:47.19 | landley | Cool. |
| 01:47.23 | prpplague | sstallion yea most people keep private repo's for their buildroot |
| 01:47.48 | landley | Used it a few times, but nested makefiles... shudder. |
| 01:47.57 | prpplague | ugh, who let the UT person in? hehe |
| 01:48.02 | Mirell | prpplague: Hey now. |
| 01:48.16 | landley | Brown cow? |
| 01:48.26 | landley | Bevo! |
| 01:48.41 | Mirell | How can you argue against a school who BBQed their first mascot? |
| 01:48.42 | prpplague | landley the question i was really asking myself was about the 10baseT |
| 01:48.57 | landley | Back to "should this be USB?" |
| 01:49.04 | prpplague | landley yea |
| 01:49.13 | prpplague | landley or something else |
| 01:49.15 | landley | I don't have an objection to it being USB. |
| 01:49.25 | landley | I don't see much reason for it to be something else. |
| 01:49.31 | landley | USB allows you to plug in any device. |
| 01:49.37 | prpplague | indeed |
| 01:49.39 | landley | A network connection is the most common device to want there. |
| 01:49.50 | landley | Those are pretty much the two main options. MOre integration vs more flexibility. |
| 01:50.31 | ds2 | ethernet really doesn't belong on this class of device |
| 01:50.39 | landley | Mirell said it would be kind of cool to play with an embedded bluetooth. |
| 01:50.46 | landley | "Not really useful, just cool." |
| 01:50.49 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:51.02 | prpplague | yea, thats actually what i was thinking of as "other" |
| 01:51.03 | landley | ds2: what you think it should be wifi? |
| 01:51.08 | landley | Everything has a net connection these days... |
| 01:51.15 | ds2 | landley: if there has to be one thing, I'd choose bluetooth |
| 01:51.20 | landley | They sell a t-shirt that detects wireless access points. (Really!) |
| 01:51.21 | ds2 | wifi is plain thorny |
| 01:51.27 | landley | No idea how it survives repeated washings... |
| 01:51.31 | prpplague | landley hehe yea i saw that today |
| 01:51.37 | landley | wifi is kind of silly when it's physically plugged into the computer. |
| 01:52.09 | ds2 | oh and power consumption is important... esp. if the host is a laptop! |
| 01:52.19 | ds2 | don't want to half the battery life of it |
| 01:52.34 | landley | which was the main argument against USB being on the other end. |
| 01:52.42 | landley | (That and a usb/ethernet dongle is still $30 or so.) |
| 01:53.08 | ds2 | I got one for $5 |
| 01:53.49 | prpplague | hmm |
| 01:53.55 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: pong |
| 01:54.26 | landley | USB at the far end is fine with me. |
| 01:54.35 | prpplague | landley my basic premise is that this is going to be like an ipaq without the lcd and is accessed via usb |
| 01:55.00 | landley | The only thing I ever did on an ipaq was play a very brief game of doom once. |
| 01:55.07 | landley | Which someone else had installed. |
| 01:55.12 | ds2 | prpplague: i think some test instruments on there would be nice |
| 01:55.19 | landley | Mirell has an iphone which he got a shell prompt on... |
| 01:55.21 | prpplague | landley hehe, so i was just thinking that they don't really have 10baseT connections |
| 01:55.31 | prpplague | Mirell ahh cool |
| 01:55.47 | joe_bleau | MonMotha: found a device that might help with your BGA pitch problems. |
| 01:55.50 | joe_bleau | http://www.isipkg.com/fan_out_interposers.php |
| 01:55.56 | prpplague | Mirell the core of the iphone is basically the hammer just running at higher mhz |
| 01:55.56 | landley | Copying files back and forth via /dev/console is a bit of a neusance. :) |
| 01:56.08 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: I've seen that done before |
| 01:56.11 | Mirell | prpplague: Ahh |
| 01:56.20 | MonMotha | though when you want to make several thousand of something, it seems silly |
| 01:56.27 | landley | In theory I could set up a ppp connection and then telnet in to the device over that, but... ouch. |
| 01:56.36 | MonMotha | in this case, the pitch wasn't the issue so much as the silly pinout (and lack of center cutout) |
| 01:56.36 | Mirell | Unfortunately, trying to just get a march_kernel to run under ARM is far harder than a simple Linux kernel. ^^ |
| 01:56.38 | joe_bleau | I thought you were wanting to do a one-off home project. |
| 01:56.55 | MonMotha | oh, on |
| 01:56.57 | MonMotha | no |
| 01:57.13 | joe_bleau | Oh, nevermind then. |
| 01:57.15 | MonMotha | the only BGA I have lined up for that is a nice, friendly 1mm pitch with only 4 rows (IIRC) |
| 01:57.24 | MonMotha | XCV1000 |
| 01:57.45 | ds2 | BGA, nice, and friendly somehow don't go together ;) |
| 01:57.51 | prpplague | landley indeed ppp would be a pain |
| 01:58.02 | MonMotha | ds2: that's nice and friendly compared to 0.8mm pitch, 18x18 grid with no center cutout |
| 01:58.26 | prpplague | landley so the idea would be to get some sort of standard networking in addition to the jtag and rs-232 |
| 01:58.33 | ds2 | prpplague: USBnet! |
| 01:58.39 | ds2 | saves on the wiring |
| 01:58.40 | prpplague | ds2 indeed |
| 01:58.41 | landley | On the same upstream ppp connection, 3 devices? |
| 01:58.49 | ds2 | and it is just a hub chip you need.... |
| 01:58.57 | Mirell | Crazy talk, just use LocalTalk. |
| 01:59.05 | prpplague | landley yea, just use a 4 port usb hub chip inside |
| 01:59.23 | prpplague | landley complete doable(specially since i've already done it) |
| 01:59.23 | landley | Another nice thing about having a connection on the outside of the nail is that you can boot the laptop up to the grub prompt and leave it there, and prove the board is still doing something independent of the laptop. |
| 01:59.29 | ds2 | Mirell will be porting the AFP stack, right? ;) |
| 01:59.39 | landley | Plug it into a HSB hub or something and actually access it from the outside world. |
| 01:59.39 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: what's fun is that 0.8mm pitch behemoth was the first BGA design I'd ever done :) |
| 01:59.42 | Mirell | ds2: Let me dig out my Mac Classic... |
| 01:59.53 | landley | alt.fan.pratchett stack? |
| 01:59.56 | Mirell | Got to run embedded HyperCard stacks. |
| 02:00.05 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 02:00.10 | landley | Too many TLAs. |
| 02:00.19 | Mirell | And TLAxs. |
| 02:00.42 | landley | Now I'm wondering what airport code TLA is... |
| 02:01.04 | landley | Texas Library Association has a website... |
| 02:01.10 | Mirell | Teller, Alaska. |
| 02:01.39 | landley | "Temporal Logic of Actions", whatever that is... |
| 02:01.49 | landley | Right, off to go pick up Fade from SJG. |
| 02:02.27 | prpplague | doh |
| 02:02.33 | prpplague | missed him |
| 02:02.40 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: I did manage to get by without having to go to laser drilled microvias, at least |
| 02:02.48 | MonMotha | had to find a place that could do 4/4 trace/space, though |
| 02:02.57 | prpplague | Mirell http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4823 |
| 02:03.09 | davidc__ | MonMotha: you can do 0.8mm with 5/5 10 |
| 02:03.09 | prpplague | Mirell oops that was forlandley |
| 02:04.06 | davidc__ | MonMotha: did a solid 0.8mm 10x10 BGA with 5/5/10 rules on 4 layers |
| 02:04.17 | davidc__ | MonMotha: without using the internal layers for routing |
| 02:04.18 | prpplague | davidc__ evening |
| 02:04.23 | davidc__ | evening prpplague |
| 02:04.28 | prpplague | davidc__ thoughts on the nail board? |
| 02:04.35 | davidc__ | prpplague: whats the nail board? |
| 02:04.55 | MonMotha | davidc__: people claim that, but every manufacturer I talked to was not willing to budge on the annular ring requirements for the via grid |
| 02:05.02 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 02:05.16 | MonMotha | I had a couple who were willing to give it a shot, but they couldn't guarantee they'd pass e-test and would charge me to re-make ones that didn't |
| 02:05.24 | prpplague | just a concept board at the momment, its functional, but we are discussing options |
| 02:05.43 | davidc__ | MonMotha: eh, I did it with a cheap chinese fab @ 5/5/10 with 5 mil anular |
| 02:05.54 | davidc__ | MonMotha: just made the BGA pads a bit smaller, worked fine. |
| 02:06.03 | MonMotha | um...check your math |
| 02:06.25 | davidc__ | MonMotha: I'll check, but I have a board in hand here that used those rules :P |
| 02:06.44 | MonMotha | 31.5 mils between hole centers on a square via grid, -5 mil trace, -10 mil space (on both sides) -10 mil for the hole, -10 mil annular ring around each hold |
| 02:06.51 | MonMotha | thats 31.5 - 35 |
| 02:06.58 | MonMotha | which is a negative number |
| 02:07.16 | MonMotha | did you do a non-square via grid? |
| 02:07.35 | MonMotha | you can fudge that to get the board specs down in terms of hole size and line/space, but then you need more layers |
| 02:07.44 | MonMotha | since you're only using every other path to escape the BGA area |
| 02:08.18 | MonMotha | I had like 5 PCB CAM departments tell me the same thing (that I had already determined) after people in here insisted 0.8mm pitch was doable with 5/5 and 10mil holes |
| 02:08.21 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 02:08.32 | davidc__ | MonMotha: jas.. unfortunatly I still don't have the design files |
| 02:08.34 | MonMotha | but the math just doesn't work out with 5 mil annular rings |
| 02:08.41 | davidc__ | prpplague: just adding USB + ethernet? |
| 02:09.01 | prpplague | davidc__ well thats kinda what we were debating |
| 02:09.09 | MonMotha | what I have heard of people doing is dropping to a 3 mil annular ring and cheating some other tolerances by <0.5mil so that things round back up |
| 02:09.25 | prpplague | davidc__ basically i'm trying to thinking of it as an ipaq without the lcd in the form of a thumbdrive |
| 02:09.27 | MonMotha | I had a couple board houses that said they'd try running them that way, but couldn't make any guarantees |
| 02:09.41 | MonMotha | and I don't want to get back a bunch of boards that have shorts/opens just to be cheap |
| 02:11.30 | ds2 | but aren't then in the realm of these folks: |
| 02:11.34 | ds2 | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5094510735.html |
| 02:11.35 | ds2 | and |
| 02:11.40 | ds2 | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6730529835.html |
| 02:11.41 | ds2 | ? |
| 02:11.48 | davidc__ | MonMotha: I think how I got away with it was by only using vias for the core of the 10x10 BGA |
| 02:12.04 | davidc__ | MonMotha: most of the rest was routed away on the top |
| 02:12.20 | davidc__ | I can't find the board to confirm how I did it, unfortunatly :/ |
| 02:12.39 | MonMotha | davidc__: so you didn't have to run any traces between the vias? |
| 02:12.53 | MonMotha | that would make it work... |
| 02:13.08 | davidc__ | MonMotha: yeah, I think that mighta been how I did it - |
| 02:13.10 | ds2 | MonMotha: wouldn't blind vias help? |
| 02:13.34 | davidc__ | MonMotha: made sure that there was enough escapes on the outer pads by routing stuff on the top |
| 02:13.46 | davidc__ | so that there was always space to squeeze the inner traces out |
| 02:13.51 | prpplague | ds2 yea the form factor is similiar, but i'm think more less as a commercial app, and more as a portable dev platform |
| 02:14.13 | davidc__ | MonMotha: I do remember it taking me quite a while to get the fanout nice on two layers though |
| 02:14.54 | MonMotha | ds2: yeah, you could also do blind vias |
| 02:15.40 | MonMotha | this board was 100% through-hole, though I guess when you get down to those specs, the $$$ hit of blind vias might not be too bad if it means you can go back to more normal specs |
| 02:16.01 | MonMotha | given the pinout of this chip, a blind via approach would have been...interesting |
| 02:17.01 | MonMotha | I've never actually had a blind/buried design fabricated |
| 02:17.10 | MonMotha | I'm not too sure what the ouch damage is |
| 02:17.15 | MonMotha | i.e. $$$ |
| 02:17.22 | ds2 | but you might be able to get more people that can do it |
| 02:17.43 | MonMotha | that's true |
| 02:17.50 | prpplague | ds2 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=260# |
| 02:18.02 | prpplague | ds2 was thinking more like that, just really small |
| 02:18.26 | ds2 | hmmmm |
| 02:18.31 | MonMotha | and jeezus, how the hell do they do double sided BGA assembly? |
| 02:18.53 | ds2 | isn't there some assembly epoxy they can use for the double sided stuff? |
| 02:19.05 | MonMotha | perhaps |
| 02:19.10 | prpplague | you can do flip chip |
| 02:19.19 | prpplague | but that gets expensive for small runs |
| 02:19.28 | flyback- | prpplague: I washed up a ne2000 nic last night :) |
| 02:19.30 | prpplague | you need to be doing 50k units to be profitable |
| 02:19.31 | flyback- | realtek one |
| 02:19.45 | flyback- | now I just gotta burn in test it :) |
| 02:19.48 | MonMotha | I have one design right now that I know is a nightmare to assemble |
| 02:19.55 | ds2 | once you mention BGAs, I think the realm of 'cheap' is so far away, it should be measured in light years! |
| 02:20.12 | prpplague | ds2 naw, it just depends on the pitch |
| 02:20.17 | MonMotha | double sided SMT, though no leadess on the bottom, tons of through-hole also, and some strange connectors, one of which is on the bottom! |
| 02:20.43 | MonMotha | but by golly it met the size spec and there's a lot of analog hardware on it and giant dip switches |
| 02:20.53 | prpplague | ds2 anyway i'll have to think about it some more |
| 02:21.05 | prpplague | ds2 run a few ideas |
| 02:21.15 | ds2 | prpplague: I suspect you might be narrowing your audience a lot with this |
| 02:22.35 | MonMotha | but jeesh, doublesided BGA... |
| 02:22.50 | chouimat | MonMotha: hehe |
| 02:23.15 | flyback- | wow |
| 02:23.29 | flyback- | so you can have a shim between windows ethernet driver and windows tcpip stack |
| 02:23.37 | flyback- | and redirect that to a usb hw firewall or a vm even |
| 02:23.38 | flyback- | neat |
| 02:24.59 | ds2 | flyback-: and that is news how? |
| 02:25.03 | MonMotha | we have some PC104 formfactor SBCs that are pretty much just BGAs tiled onto the board. It's kinda nuts |
| 02:25.05 | flyback- | I never knew |
| 02:26.25 | flyback- | prpplague: did zigbee ever gain any traction |
| 02:27.29 | ds2 | try tossing a handfull of zigbees behind the rear wheel to see ;) |
| 02:28.17 | ds2 | you have seen those dev boards at trade shows, right? |
| 02:28.32 | ds2 | seems ideal as a traction assist device when wheels are spinning |
| 02:28.56 | flyback- | i'm serious |
| 02:28.59 | flyback- | geez |
| 02:31.35 | prpplague | ds2 narrowing my audience is what i want |
| 02:32.05 | prpplague | ds2 you can loose alot be trying to be too much to too many people |
| 02:32.27 | ds2 | or you can loose everything ;) |
| 02:32.39 | prpplague | flyback- zigbee is almost the exclusing usage in most industrial apps |
| 02:32.47 | prpplague | ds2 loose everything? |
| 02:32.54 | prpplague | ds2 in what way? |
| 02:32.58 | ds2 | yeah, narrow it down to 0 customers |
| 02:33.14 | prpplague | ds2 i don't think thats gonna happen |
| 02:33.50 | prpplague | ds2 besides, it doesn't cost us hardly anything to make a batch of 50 and keep them on the shelf |
| 02:33.54 | prpplague | ds2 if they sale they |
| 02:33.56 | prpplague | sale |
| 02:33.58 | ds2 | *nod* |
| 02:34.00 | prpplague | if they don't they don't |
| 02:34.02 | flyback- | prpplague: cool |
| 02:38.13 | prpplague | ds2 inaddition, i'm kinda designing this for myself as well, i've wanted a nice portable arm system myself |
| 02:39.10 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp025.110-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 02:39.52 | Mirell | prpplague: It'd be cool to hook up one of these to it: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=757 |
| 02:40.08 | ds2 | prpplague: that's what those nokia pads are for ;) |
| 02:40.32 | prpplague | ds2 uh not interested, thats too "civilized" hehe |
| 02:40.37 | prpplague | ds2 no schematics available |
| 02:40.55 | prpplague | Mirell actually i have one at the office |
| 02:41.00 | Mirell | prpplague: Ah, cool |
| 02:41.05 | prpplague | Mirell planning to test it out in jan |
| 02:41.19 | ds2 | prpplague: they are great if you are stuck in OMAP land |
| 02:41.45 | ds2 | mirelle: that doesn't do EDGE; wish someone would sell one that will do EDGE in small quanitties |
| 02:41.59 | prpplague | ds2 problem is that omap isn't practical for smaller run devices, i.e. less than 10k per run |
| 02:42.34 | ds2 | prpplague: I just do what I am asked and keep those opinions bottled up ;) |
| 02:43.37 | sstallion | nothing like cross compiling on a vm |
| 02:43.52 | Mirell | Cross-compiling on a VM inside a VM. |
| 02:44.04 | sstallion | theres always that ;) |
| 02:44.16 | sstallion | i really need to update my workstation with a chip that supports vt-x |
| 02:44.49 | Mirell | Oh, be crazy and run VMs with the same architecture as the host why don't you. |
| 02:45.09 | sstallion | bah, im banished to x86 land at the moment |
| 02:45.30 | Mirell | Alas |
| 02:46.04 | Mirell | So I always imagined the different colored guys in Tron were various components of the x86 architecture. |
| 02:46.12 | Mirell | So you're the blue guy? |
| 02:46.27 | sstallion | do you guys know of any good places to look for reference boards which support high bandwidth? |
| 02:46.37 | sstallion | tonite i am it seems |
| 02:49.52 | prpplague | ds2 how about something like this onboard - http://www.us.kingbright.com/images/catalog/SPEC/APPDA04-41EWA.pdf |
| 02:51.02 | flyback- | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5098545140.html |
| 02:51.05 | flyback- | MHWAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 02:51.07 | flyback- | MHWAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 02:51.13 | prpplague | flyback- easy on the caps |
| 02:51.27 | flyback- | virtualization is so cool :P |
| 02:52.40 | Mirell | It's overrated. |
| 02:52.51 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:53.21 | flyback- | evr see this prpp |
| 02:53.46 | flyback- | The R3210 appears to be a RISC core that executes the i486 instruction set. An integrated MMU (memory management unit) supports complex OSes such as Linux, Windows, and 32-bit RTOSes, RDC says. |
| 02:53.49 | flyback- | The R3210 appears to be a RISC core that executes the i486 instruction set. An integrated MMU (memory management unit) supports complex OSes such as Linux, Windows, and 32-bit |
| 02:53.52 | flyback- | doh |
| 02:53.56 | flyback- | goddamn irc client |
| 02:54.57 | flyback- | I think pidgin/gaim might be able to overthrow ms comic chat as the worst irc client ever |
| 02:59.56 | sstallion | heh |
| 03:00.05 | sstallion | oh come on, i miss comic chat ;) |
| 03:00.10 | sstallion | what was that... msn 2.0? |
| 03:00.27 | sstallion | i remember seeing that in 1995 and promptly walking away |
| 03:01.47 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:05.41 | prpplague | landley wget fade returned successfully? |
| 03:06.09 | prpplague | flyback- please don't do that again |
| 03:07.53 | landley | Yup. |
| 03:08.11 | prpplague | landley good deal |
| 03:08.33 | landley | I wonder if hammer has any potential use in computer clusters? |
| 03:09.03 | prpplague | landley hey i had a thought, what about a 7 segment display and a dial connected to the adc? |
| 03:09.04 | landley | (In terms of power density, it's interesting. But it's possible that one core 2 duo is equivalent to so many of the suckers, there's no point...) |
| 03:09.29 | landley | It's a bit "junior electronics kit", but if you like. |
| 03:09.37 | landley | Doesn't interest _me_, but I can see people it might interest. |
| 03:09.49 | prpplague | landley hehe indeed, i actually have been able to connect 4 together and do a some basic tests with a hacked distgcc |
| 03:10.07 | prpplague | landley nothing really significant as i don't know enough about distgcc |
| 03:10.24 | landley | Not much to know, is there? |
| 03:10.36 | cajaka | Prplague, eth or usb connections? |
| 03:10.39 | flyback- | man I need to break down and get some rs232 +5 and +3 boards |
| 03:10.41 | prpplague | landley: hehe, just out of my area of expertise |
| 03:10.53 | flyback- | and blow the dust off my webpal, juiceboxes, and dht-walnut |
| 03:10.59 | flyback- | actually the nut has a rs232 board |
| 03:11.08 | prpplague | landley but as far as the 7 segment display, i was thinking of using that instead of the leds |
| 03:11.43 | prpplague | landley what i was going to show you before you left was this |
| 03:12.25 | prpplague | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4823 |
| 03:12.26 | landley | Make the segments individually controllable and do a script that sets it to 0-9. :) |
| 03:12.29 | flyback- | prpplague: why |
| 03:12.34 | flyback- | why not just use a hd44780 |
| 03:12.39 | prpplague | landley hehe indeed |
| 03:12.54 | prpplague | landley you can use that to power the board without a pc/laptop |
| 03:13.13 | flyback- | gee |
| 03:13.19 | flyback- | I WONDER WHO TOLD prpplague ABOUT DEALEXTREME |
| 03:13.29 | flyback- | OR SEVERAL OTHER THINGS ON ELINUX WEB PAGE ;) |
| 03:13.34 | prpplague | landley that one is 300mA but you can get some as high as 1.5A |
| 03:13.42 | prpplague | flyback- please don't use the caps |
| 03:13.46 | flyback- | ok :0 |
| 03:13.59 | flyback- | bah you can make those |
| 03:14.02 | flyback- | all you need is a 7805 |
| 03:14.12 | landley | prpplague: what exactly does this device do? |
| 03:14.15 | prpplague | flyback- we aren't talking about hacking |
| 03:14.20 | flyback- | hacking? |
| 03:14.27 | flyback- | i'm talking a good adaptor for usb devices |
| 03:14.36 | prpplague | landley basically it just provides +5v for the usb interface, but no i/o |
| 03:14.46 | flyback- | that reminds me |
| 03:14.47 | prpplague | landley basically fakes a usb host power supply |
| 03:14.48 | flyback- | thanks prpplague a lot |
| 03:15.12 | landley | So you can plug a nail board into a wall socket when you're not programming it? :) |
| 03:15.18 | flyback- | I need to pull off some of the usb sockets |
| 03:15.19 | prpplague | yep |
| 03:15.21 | flyback- | to make what you just said |
| 03:15.22 | landley | Cool. |
| 03:15.32 | landley | Again, needing a downstream USB or ethernet becomes interesting. |
| 03:15.39 | landley | Program it, then use it standalone to test... |
| 03:15.39 | prpplague | right |
| 03:15.42 | flyback- | again landley |
| 03:15.56 | flyback- | if you ever want any help/advice on buidling something hardware wise |
| 03:16.01 | flyback- | don't ask me ask #electronics :P |
| 03:16.05 | flyback- | feel free to idle there |
| 03:16.20 | flyback- | you are welcome there also prpplague or anyone else |
| 03:16.24 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 03:16.44 | flyback- | someone rub you the wrong way? |
| 03:16.46 | flyback- | lorez? |
| 03:16.47 | flyback- | gigs? |
| 03:17.15 | prpplague | the whole channel |
| 03:17.21 | prpplague | very intolerant |
| 03:17.27 | prpplague | T0mW greetings |
| 03:17.42 | flyback- | prpplague: oh na some of them are ok |
| 03:18.09 | prpplague | landley yea, i was think in that situation that a network connection would be good |
| 03:18.25 | flyback- | eadthem, tom_l, ziggy, thebear |
| 03:18.34 | flyback- | prpplague: any of those guys are down to earth |
| 03:19.41 | flyback- | we been tempted to start another channel more than once |
| 03:19.49 | flyback- | lorez is a dick with ops, otherwise he's ok |
| 03:19.57 | landley | prpplague: it's also that once you've got the system up, copying files to/from the filesystem is a common case. |
| 03:19.58 | flyback- | gigs can be a dick but can usually be reasoned with in the end |
| 03:20.03 | flyback- | sorry you had a bad run prpplague |
| 03:20.05 | landley | Easy to do with a net connection, harder to do through a serial console. |
| 03:20.06 | flyback- | :/ |
| 03:20.46 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 03:22.28 | prpplague | landley if we keep it minimal like the prototype nail board, three basic leds, a button, and a dipswitch bank, along with the 10baseT and usb slave, its can be done pretty easy and cheap |
| 03:24.11 | landley | cool. |
| 03:24.58 | cajaka | Sounds good |
| 03:26.37 | landley | I'm really looking forward to seeing this sucker in action. |
| 03:27.00 | T0mW | prpplague: hello, again. |
| 03:27.28 | T0mW | init() won't open /dev/console. sys_open() cannot find it. |
| 03:27.51 | T0mW | I'm looking at the filesystems compiled in: romfs, cramfs, ramfs, etc. |
| 03:28.18 | prpplague | T0mW i assume you have the s3c24xx console option configured? |
| 03:28.26 | T0mW | prpplague: but, hey! it makes it to init() |
| 03:28.27 | landley | T0mW: initramfs? |
| 03:28.34 | T0mW | dunno |
| 03:28.38 | landley | Put a /dev/console in initramfs and that's the stdin passed to init. |
| 03:28.43 | prpplague | T0mW paster you kernel config |
| 03:28.50 | T0mW | k |
| 03:28.59 | flyback- | prpplague: /msg |
| 03:29.25 | landley | Which was a totally undocumented area when I started. |
| 03:29.30 | landley | Loooots of experimentation. |
| 03:30.06 | landley | Even if you haven't got an /init in initramfs, it still opens /dev/console out of there to provide stdin/stdout/stderr to pid 1. |
| 03:30.17 | T0mW | http://rafb.net/p/dXvWaB18.html |
| 03:30.39 | T0mW | landley: I have a /dev/console |
| 03:31.31 | T0mW | entry, anyway, I haven't drilled down that far yet, but not sure if it can interpret the fs image in memory. sys_open() never returns. |
| 03:31.57 | prpplague | T0mW yea looks good, i would turn of the s3c2410 leds |
| 03:32.06 | T0mW | oops |
| 03:32.16 | landley | Put a statically linked "hello world" in initramfs, and run rdinit=/hello |
| 03:32.30 | prpplague | T0mW you always have the most interesting board bringup problems |
| 03:32.36 | landley | Eliminates lots of variables. :) |
| 03:32.44 | landley | (Are you getting kernel bootup messages?) |
| 03:33.08 | prpplague | landley: he was earlier |
| 03:33.21 | landley | he was what earlier? |
| 03:33.27 | prpplague | landley right up to the point where initrc is suppose to be executed |
| 03:33.32 | prpplague | landley getting bootup messages |
| 03:33.43 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, but think of how much you learn from helping me. :) |
| 03:33.52 | landley | So he got bootup messages but didn't get any output from init? |
| 03:34.04 | flyback- | prpplague: |
| 03:34.08 | prpplague | T0mW indeed, thats why i'm always interested in your mess^h^h^h^work |
| 03:34.12 | flyback- | what's the chances of getting u-boot on a juicebox :P |
| 03:34.24 | landley | I repeat: make an initramfs with /dev/console and /hello. |
| 03:34.29 | prpplague | about 100% but why? |
| 03:34.43 | landley | Have /hello be a statically linked "hello world" program, and boot with the kernel command line option rdinit=/hello. |
| 03:34.50 | landley | If you see "hello world", you're getting output from PID 1. |
| 03:34.52 | flyback- | prpplague: thought it might be a neat idea |
| 03:34.57 | landley | If your'e not, you have very few variables. |
| 03:35.00 | flyback- | thinking about turning some into slave lcd devices |
| 03:35.07 | T0mW | landley: naw, gets lost in: |
| 03:35.08 | flyback- | so they could load most of their os from the device attached to |
| 03:35.10 | T0mW | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:35.15 | prpplague | flyback- then just use the current loader, its fine |
| 03:35.26 | landley | From previous experience, have your hello world sleep(99999) instead of exiting, to avoid its output being swamped by panic messages. |
| 03:35.32 | landley | T0mW: that hangs? |
| 03:35.38 | T0mW | goes into that call an never returns from it. |
| 03:35.57 | landley | It should be bouncing off the appropriate function pointer to go into the init function of the serial device. |
| 03:36.26 | T0mW | I traced it down about 5..6 call levels before I figured I'd better recheck my filesystems that were being compiled into the kernel. |
| 03:36.32 | prpplague | T0mW uh what what is your kernel arg for console? |
| 03:36.36 | landley | Do you have a speaker on the board you can beep from within the kernel? |
| 03:37.04 | landley | (That's what I did when printf wasn't an option. :) |
| 03:37.19 | prpplague | T0mW i bet you have console=/dev/ttySAC0 right? |
| 03:37.39 | landley | Ah. |
| 03:37.48 | T0mW | ATAG_CMDLINE: (32 bytes) 'console=ttySAC0 root=/dev/ram0 ' |
| 03:37.48 | T0mW | A |
| 03:37.58 | prpplague | T0mW ahh ok you got it right then |
| 03:37.59 | landley | If you say that, then you might need a /dev/ttySAC0 in initramfs, not just /dev/console. :) |
| 03:38.09 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 03:38.17 | landley | Or give your /dev/console the appropriate major/minor... |
| 03:38.20 | prpplague | T0mW you have the correct nodes in /dev? |
| 03:38.23 | T0mW | 5,1 |
| 03:38.29 | landley | I used to know this stuff, but am not remembering the details... |
| 03:38.44 | landley | Actually, I think it does a temporary mknod... |
| 03:39.06 | prpplague | landley i think you are right with initramfs |
| 03:39.19 | prpplague | landley thats why i usually use initrd for testing |
| 03:39.23 | T0mW | crw-rw---- 1 root tty 5, 1 Dec 18 21:45 /mnt/disk/dev/console |
| 03:39.23 | T0mW | crw-r----- 1 root tty 204, 64 Dec 18 21:45 /mnt/disk/dev/ttySAC0 |
| 03:39.28 | T0mW | these look good |
| 03:40.17 | T0mW | prpplague: the TCT_HAMMER kernel will boot from that filesystem |
| 03:40.28 | T0mW | my kernel won't |
| 03:40.28 | prpplague | T0mW ahh |
| 03:40.32 | prpplague | interesting |
| 03:40.39 | landley | initramfs != initrd. |
| 03:40.43 | T0mW | prpplague: so, I would not say that the filesystem image is bad |
| 03:40.48 | prpplague | landley right |
| 03:40.59 | landley | initramfs essentially extracts into the VFS. |
| 03:40.59 | prpplague | T0mW indeed |
| 03:41.02 | T0mW | it is with my kernel |
| 03:41.16 | landley | T0mW: is it with your kernel, or with your board? |
| 03:41.20 | T0mW | it is prolly something stupid |
| 03:41.21 | landley | Can you reproduce the problem under qemu? |
| 03:41.27 | T0mW | qemu??? |
| 03:41.29 | landley | Because if so, you can attach gdb to the running kernel. |
| 03:41.32 | landley | Makes debugging way, way easier. |
| 03:41.43 | T0mW | landley: I'm using Insight on the kernel now. |
| 03:41.57 | landley | Does it show you where the actual hang occurs? |
| 03:42.48 | T0mW | landley: if I wanted to trace it long enough. heh. That's why, when I saw a prob with sys_open, that I figured I'd better recheck the settings for filesysem drivers in kernel config. |
| 03:43.11 | prpplague | T0mW uh my brain is playing tricks on me, you don't have vt_console enabled |
| 03:43.14 | landley | nah, if it's getting into sys_open it's probably happy with the filesystem. |
| 03:43.22 | landley | The kernel's already handed off to the device specific code. |
| 03:43.26 | landley | The device specific code didn't come back. |
| 03:43.36 | landley | filesystem's done at that point. |
| 03:43.57 | T0mW | prpplague: I took the tct_hammer apex, broke on 0x30008000, then changed R1 to my mach-type and let it rip. Same prob, so it appears that apex is not the culprit either, it is kernel. |
| 03:44.14 | T0mW | prpplague: vt_console gave compiler errors |
| 03:44.24 | T0mW | prpplague: I didn't think I needed it. |
| 03:44.44 | landley | That's virtual terminals. |
| 03:44.44 | T0mW | prpplague: but that shouldn't explain why the syscall dies |
| 03:44.49 | landley | You shouldn't need it unless you have vga. |
| 03:44.56 | T0mW | landley: correct |
| 03:45.34 | landley | It's possible that recent kernels broke, but you'd think somebody would notice... |
| 03:45.58 | T0mW | prpplague: I think that I'm going to have to locate where the romfs gets unzipped, then look at the memory image. either that or dump the memory image to a file via JTAG then run a compare on it. |
| 03:46.29 | prpplague | T0mW see this screams to me something isn't configured or your init'd in your machine setup |
| 03:46.31 | T0mW | landley: 2.6.20.4 though, that should have shown up by now. Not bleedin-edge stuff |
| 03:47.35 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, I know, but, I looked at some other machine setups in the mach-s3c2410 dir. Nothing blatent that I can see. |
| 03:47.47 | T0mW | I'll have to dig much deeper. |
| 03:47.49 | T0mW | or |
| 03:48.03 | T0mW | take the smdk2410 an use that machine... |
| 03:48.06 | prpplague | T0mW yea, the thing that stands out to me is you don't init you devices |
| 03:48.23 | T0mW | if the smdk2410 does the same thing, then I would say it wouldn't be in the machine setup. |
| 03:48.30 | prpplague | T0mW i.e. with the platform_add_devices |
| 03:51.17 | prpplague | T0mW my ssh to the office is down, so i can't look at my configs from here |
| 03:52.19 | landley | General question for the list here: |
| 03:52.24 | landley | How important is a C++ compiler to you guys? |
| 03:52.40 | landley | I've got a bug I need to fix in Firmware Linux before the next release, and there's an easy way and a hard way to do it. |
| 03:52.53 | landley | The problem is that on an x86-64 host, the gcc path logic found a new way to break. |
| 03:53.07 | landley | connect2 is discarding the $PATH I'm feeding it, and looking for ld in a hardwired location. |
| 03:53.19 | landley | The easy fix is to zap collect2 and make it a symlink to the correct ld. |
| 03:53.40 | landley | collect2 is used to enumerate C++ constructor thingies. |
| 03:53.42 | landley | It's not used by C. |
| 03:53.57 | landley | If I use this fix, I can't add C++ support later without undoing it and properly fixing it. |
| 03:54.09 | T0mW | I have successfully avoided doing any C++ during my 30+ year career. |
| 03:54.10 | landley | But a proper fix involves groveling through the gcc source code and shooting idiocy in the head with a patch. |
| 03:54.10 | prpplague | c++ is low priority imho, |
| 03:54.13 | landley | Which is always ugly. |
| 03:54.22 | T0mW | I have done a ton of C and Object Pascal |
| 03:54.32 | flyback- | landley: mabye you should setup a virtual machine |
| 03:54.34 | flyback- | with 32 bit linux inside |
| 03:54.37 | landley | I haven't done much C++ in years either. (Abandoned the language when templates went in.) |
| 03:54.41 | prpplague | landley my $0.02 is fix it for now |
| 03:54.42 | landley | flyback: what the...? |
| 03:54.59 | prpplague | flyback- enough with the VM stuff |
| 03:55.05 | landley | I have an x86-64 host running a cross compiler targeting arm. |
| 03:55.13 | landley | Where does a virtual machine with 32 bit Linux come in? |
| 03:55.45 | landley | I do in fact have a native build under qemu, but it's qemu running arm, not x86. |
| 03:55.54 | landley | (or mips, or ppc, or any of the other platforms I support.) |
| 03:56.08 | flyback- | well if the cross compilers are vomiting in 64 bit land I was saying mabye you should setup a 32 bit linux and use cross compilers in there |
| 03:56.23 | landley | For a 90% performance hit. |
| 03:56.25 | flyback- | I was going to do this myself even if 32 and 32 |
| 03:56.27 | flyback- | bullshit |
| 03:56.38 | landley | I currently have qemu running x86-64 xubuntu. |
| 03:56.45 | prpplague | flyback- only warning on the language |
| 03:56.52 | landley | I set it compiling the linux kernel 2 hours ago. It's still going. |
| 03:57.08 | landley | (Currently in fs/lockd.) |
| 03:57.15 | T0mW | prpplague: um, would you think that a call to platform_add_devices() is important??? |
| 03:57.16 | landley | Time to build on the host system? 3 minutes. |
| 03:57.26 | T0mW | heh |
| 03:57.48 | landley | This is why I still care about the cross compiler even for the native build stage of firmware linux. |
| 03:57.56 | landley | Because I want to use distcc to dial out from qemu to the cross compiler. |
| 03:58.06 | landley | I believe I've explained this before. :) |
| 03:58.30 | landley | My question is more "in the entire system you want to build, will any of the packages use C++". |
| 03:58.31 | flyback- | mabye I missed that part |
| 03:58.38 | landley | Nobody's interested in qt, konqueror...? |
| 03:58.39 | prpplague | T0mW yea, normally that inits a whole series of stuff |
| 03:58.54 | prpplague | T0mW give me a second, i'm dl'n kernel source to look at |
| 03:59.17 | T0mW | prpplague: IOW, even if I have an empty device list, I should be making that call anyway? |
| 03:59.53 | prpplague | T0mW there is something about the uarts that i can't remember at the momment |
| 04:00.06 | prpplague | T0mW let me have a look at the code when its finished dl'n |
| 04:02.58 | MonMotha | prpplague: you up on flash filesystems? |
| 04:03.38 | prpplague | MonMotha hehe, it comes and goes, jffs2 is the main item i've been using of course |
| 04:04.18 | MonMotha | ok |
| 04:04.29 | MonMotha | I have a 256MB NAND device. jffs2 or worth investigating other options? |
| 04:04.41 | flyback- | yes |
| 04:04.50 | flyback- | MonMotha: raw nand? |
| 04:05.59 | prpplague | T0mW another thing, you have arm thumb enabled |
| 04:06.04 | prpplague | T0mW need to turn that off |
| 04:06.08 | T0mW | ok |
| 04:06.24 | prpplague | MonMotha yea jffs2 will work fine with that |
| 04:06.59 | T0mW | prpplague: I figured that it was harmless |
| 04:07.28 | prpplague | T0mW it can create problems on arm cores that don't switch between arm and thumb easily |
| 04:08.08 | MonMotha | prpplague: cool. Didn't know if it was worth considering YAFFS for example |
| 04:08.14 | MonMotha | I know jffs2 can get slow on some larger devices |
| 04:10.47 | prpplague | MonMotha indeed it normally has a problem on the first mount |
| 04:11.21 | prpplague | MonMotha you might want to use a small initramfs for initial bootup and chroot over to the jffs after its up |
| 04:11.31 | prpplague | MonMotha assuming boot time is an issue |
| 04:12.51 | T0mW | YES! |
| 04:13.49 | T0mW | prpplague: that mach-digi2410.c must have been screaming really loudly for you to hear it all the way into Texas. |
| 04:13.54 | landley | Found it? |
| 04:13.59 | T0mW | prpplague: funny, I didn't hear a thing. |
| 04:14.06 | T0mW | landley: yeah |
| 04:14.23 | landley | The thumb thing? |
| 04:14.27 | T0mW | platform_add_devices |
| 04:14.35 | T0mW | possibly thumb |
| 04:14.38 | MonMotha | prpplague: boot time isn't a problem, really |
| 04:15.04 | MonMotha | so as long as it's only slow on initial mount, that's ok |
| 04:15.25 | T0mW | I had CONFIG_ARM_THUMB=y in the TCT_HAMMER kernel as well, so that wasn't it. |
| 04:15.42 | T0mW | NOW to get the mci interface working again |
| 04:15.44 | prpplague | yea, i was thinking it was the platform_add_devices, that has a number if inits |
| 04:15.55 | prpplague | even if you are doing any devices |
| 04:16.05 | T0mW | prpplague: that was the only thing that I really added in the mach setup |
| 04:17.19 | T0mW | prpplague: I just thought that since I had nothing for s3c24xx_init_io() and platform_add_devices() to do for my board that I could ignore the calls. |
| 04:17.46 | prpplague | yea, problem is that it also does a whole series of control setup |
| 04:17.47 | T0mW | thank you Dave, landley |
| 04:17.56 | prpplague | hehe |
| 04:18.04 | T0mW | prpplague: now to boot off the SD card. |
| 04:18.26 | T0mW | prpplague: I've done that before, I have the mci source that worked in 2.6.18 to use. |
| 04:19.22 | prpplague | good deal |
| 04:20.57 | T0mW | I'd better diff this now before I forget and do something stupid like "make linux-dirclean" |
| 04:24.05 | prpplague | ok guys, i'm beat |
| 04:24.28 | prpplague | T0mW donna is terribly home sick, and terrible cranky, so i have to do some honey-dos |
| 04:24.57 | T0mW | prpplague: lol |
| 04:25.06 | joe_bleau | byebye |
| 04:25.10 | T0mW | prpplague: gotta keep the woman happy you know... |
| 04:25.14 | prpplague | indeed |
| 04:25.23 | T0mW | later |
| 04:25.27 | prpplague | later |
| 04:38.15 | flyback- | finally have a definitive answer |
| 04:38.15 | flyback- | yay |
| 04:38.16 | flyback- | http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/74/74LVX4245.pdf |
| 04:38.19 | flyback- | owe this kid a beer |
| 04:40.05 | Mirell | Mmm. |
| 04:41.15 | ds2 | Hmmmmmm |
| 04:41.26 | T0mW | HMMMM |
| 04:41.28 | T0mW | heh |
| 04:41.39 | flyback- | less than a $1 even on digikey |
| 04:41.58 | flyback- | quick question |
| 04:42.04 | Mirell | Quick answer. |
| 04:42.06 | flyback- | does that mean it will go 5 to 3 and 3 to 5 |
| 04:42.23 | flyback- | oh I see |
| 04:42.30 | flyback- | the +5 goes on A and +3.3 goes on B |
| 04:42.34 | T0mW | requires Quick Queston |
| 04:42.44 | T0mW | s/Queston/Question |
| 04:43.00 | ds2 | for slow stuff, Open Collector + 5V tolerante inputs should suffice |
| 04:46.14 | flyback- | well what about this part? |
| 04:46.21 | flyback- | is it optimial for everything? |
| 04:56.01 | *** part/#edev flyback- (n=ubuntu@c-24-131-197-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
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| 05:27.53 | Mirell | Woot, 8.5% done on this torrent. |
| 05:54.28 | *** join/#edev purl_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 05:54.28 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of hacking small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Hammer Development boards now available at http://www.tincantools.com/ |
| 06:11.11 | landley | Mirell: the 130 gig one? |
| 06:12.40 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 06:13.25 | Mirell | landley: Yep |
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| 06:21.06 | landley | Wheee? |
| 06:28.39 | Mirell | Mmm. |
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| 09:55.53 | Mirell | Hmm. |
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| 11:42.18 | chouimat|Zzzz | ncc1701 |
| 11:42.54 | T0mW | spacer |
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| 14:17.00 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 14:19.29 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 14:19.29 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 14:26.19 | prpplague | greetings all |
| 14:26.30 | chouimat|work | hi prpplague |
| 14:27.12 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greetings |
| 14:27.40 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe, i wished you were alive last night, donna needed some french translated, hehe |
| 14:28.02 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I was alive but not on the computer ... |
| 14:29.07 | prpplague | i.e. tree falls in the woods and no one is around, did it make a sound? |
| 14:29.19 | chouimat|work | prpplague: you can ask lisa and she will tell you it was definitly alive |
| 14:29.53 | prpplague | chouimat|work: you got a text-2-speech adapter for your blowup doll? |
| 14:30.02 | chouimat|work | prpplague: lol |
| 14:30.31 | chouimat|work | prpplague: not yet I'm thinking of using an hammer for this ;) |
| 14:30.42 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 15:41.04 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 16:00.36 | prpplague | wmat: you get your kit ordered? |
| 16:04.00 | wmat | prpplague: not yet |
| 16:04.27 | prpplague | wmat: okie dokie, well the boss said he'd put you guys a link and info on the web site when the hammer is supported |
| 16:04.40 | wmat | prpplague: we have some other boards to add support for as well, so we're arguing about which gets added first |
| 16:06.07 | prpplague | ahh fun fun |
| 16:06.39 | wmat | prpplague: but the link offer may help sway things |
| 16:08.52 | prpplague | wmat: yea, well do a joint PR with linuxdevices.com |
| 16:08.52 | prpplague | wmat: i.e. something like "Codesourcery adds support for TIny Hammer board" |
| 16:08.52 | wmat | prpplague: cool |
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| 17:30.18 | Mirell | Dear God, I'm awake before noon. |
| 17:31.18 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:34.14 | chouimat|work | "Dear God, I'm sueing you because 2000 years ago you promised that we will never suffer again ... and guess what" |
| 17:53.17 | Mirell | Heh. |
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| 18:02.09 | CosmicPenguin | http://cuntography.com/blog/?p=17 |
| 18:02.13 | CosmicPenguin | Unfortunate domain name, but its legit |
| 18:02.20 | CosmicPenguin | hacking the USB i-buddy |
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| 18:14.58 | *** part/#edev antitab (n=antitab@pool-72-81-26-33.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:19.24 | sunrunner20 | damn nubs |
| 18:20.40 | sunrunner20 | http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=5388380&postcount=13 |
| 18:21.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey did you look at the nail board? i'm curious to your thoughts about it |
| 18:21.53 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 18:55.56 | prpplague | GPSFan: ping |
| 18:56.21 | ds2 | prpplague: what did you have in mind with the multiseg LED thing yesterday? |
| 18:57.04 | prpplague | ds2: i think i've narrowed it down to a single digit 7-seg display |
| 18:57.09 | prpplague | ds2: smd |
| 18:57.18 | ds2 | I mean what is it for |
| 18:57.29 | ds2 | a POST code type display from the boot loader or ? |
| 18:57.40 | prpplague | ds2: http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=604-ACSA03-41EWA |
| 18:57.47 | prpplague | ds2: can be used for just about anything |
| 18:57.57 | ds2 | Oh just a thing sitting on the GPIOs? |
| 18:57.59 | prpplague | ds2: probably have it display boot sequence on startup |
| 18:58.16 | prpplague | ds2: then once linux is up have it available via a proc entry |
| 18:58.23 | GPSFan | prpplague: howdy. |
| 18:58.34 | prpplague | ds2: i.e. echo "6" > /proc/hammer/display |
| 18:58.46 | ds2 | Oh hmmmm but if you are going to throw in a hub, why not have the GPIO pins routed to a PIO thing that can be read by USB? |
| 18:58.54 | prpplague | GPSFan: hey, don't suppose you measured the current on your olimex enc28j60 board |
| 18:59.00 | ds2 | and may be provide sample code to use that to log data? |
| 18:59.15 | GPSFan | prpplague: let me look in my notes... |
| 18:59.19 | prpplague | ds2: i'm sorry i did not understand your statement |
| 19:00.07 | ds2 | prpplague: I was thinking of a parallel port to USB chip and have that hooked up to the GPIOs on the hammer. then that can act as a logic analyzer or other data logging functions |
| 19:00.22 | prpplague | to what end? |
| 19:00.30 | ds2 | debugging? |
| 19:00.36 | prpplague | ds2: debugging what? |
| 19:00.45 | ds2 | anything, they are GPIOs afterall |
| 19:01.03 | ds2 | so if you to trace a function, flip a GPIO on entry and flip it back on exit |
| 19:01.04 | prpplague | ds2: sorry i don't follow |
| 19:01.26 | prpplague | ds2: why not just look at it via jtag or via the console? |
| 19:02.07 | ds2 | prpplague: the GPIO method can be used for otherthings beyond debugging |
| 19:02.23 | prpplague | ds2: such as? |
| 19:02.32 | ds2 | data logging for one |
| 19:02.53 | prpplague | ds2: again if you need to log data why not the ethernet port or the rs-232 console? |
| 19:03.12 | ds2 | prpplague: RS-232 is slow and ethernet is nondeterministic |
| 19:03.23 | ds2 | plus drivers for flipping GPIOs are a lot easier to do then any of the above |
| 19:03.43 | prpplague | i am not sure i agree |
| 19:03.59 | ds2 | *(someIOaddress) = 0x1243; is a lot easier |
| 19:04.03 | prpplague | ds2: i just can't think of any good situation that it could be used in |
| 19:04.34 | prpplague | ds2: but then you'd need an app on the usb side to decode the info |
| 19:05.09 | ds2 | prpplague: yes you do... but the simple parallel to USB chips have drivers that present thing in a simple fashion |
| 19:05.32 | ds2 | prpplague: another use is to have this prototype a driver... write a device emulator on the PC side and have that watch the GPIO lines |
| 19:06.06 | ds2 | so say you want to eventually use a hammer to drive a stepper; this can let you verify the wave form on the development stick w/o having to build the coild drivers first |
| 19:06.40 | prpplague | ds2: hmm, i would not be adding an additional chip |
| 19:07.01 | ds2 | prpplague: nixing the hub chip? |
| 19:08.36 | GPSFan | prpplague: I don't have anything in my notes, other than it got quite warm (hot) and the datasheet says 250ma (max). Which is why I replaced the 5V reg on the carrier. |
| 19:09.55 | prpplague | ds2: no, just don't need another chip |
| 19:10.13 | prpplague | GPSFan: 250mA? |
| 19:10.24 | prpplague | GPSFan: i thought it was 180mA |
| 19:10.25 | ds2 | 'k |
| 19:10.42 | prpplague | ds2: not that i'm arguing with you, i just want to understand your point of view |
| 19:10.47 | GPSFan | prpplague: that's what the .pdf I have says. it also says "Advance info" |
| 19:10.47 | ds2 | prpplague: I don't suppose they make a dual serial + 1 parallel chip? |
| 19:11.01 | ds2 | prpplague: yes, and I understand why. |
| 19:11.08 | prpplague | ds2: yea its the chip we are already using |
| 19:11.28 | ds2 | is the parallel part used? |
| 19:12.29 | prpplague | ds2: there is an 8-bit parallel section unused |
| 19:14.55 | ds2 | so in theory, that can be run to a select number of GPIO pins |
| 19:15.40 | prpplague | in theory |
| 19:15.45 | prpplague | brb, need a reboot |
| 19:22.25 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 19:22.29 | GPSFan | prpplague: my data sheet was old, the latest from Microchip says 180ma max 160ma typ. |
| 19:22.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea thats what i have |
| 19:22.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: i'm curious if thats just for the chip itself |
| 19:22.57 | prpplague | GPSFan: if the magjack adds some |
| 19:23.44 | GPSFan | that was from microchip, so it is just for the chip. the leds xtal osc magjack all add a bit. |
| 19:24.06 | prpplague | GPSFan: so best guess is around 200mA probably |
| 19:24.19 | wmat | prpplague: so what are the beta hammer users doing with their boards? |
| 19:24.43 | prpplague | wmat: jbevren is doing some SID/C64 stuff |
| 19:24.52 | prpplague | wmat: GPSFan is doing basic dev |
| 19:25.08 | prpplague | wmat: samuelr did basic documentation notes |
| 19:25.37 | prpplague | wmat: t0mW has done a complete carrier board |
| 19:25.51 | prpplague | wmat: landley is doing arm compiler testing and documentation |
| 19:26.13 | prpplague | wmat: exiles is the only one that took the hardware and ran without any contributions |
| 19:26.39 | prpplague | wmat: nelson will be getting one to do reprap stuff |
| 19:26.58 | prpplague | wmat: jonhylands is getting one to do some robotics/underwater UAV stuff |
| 19:27.13 | wmat | prpplague: awesome! |
| 19:27.28 | prpplague | wmat: hapchap_ did xmas lights, hehe |
| 19:27.40 | prpplague | wmat: you seen the video right? |
| 19:27.52 | wmat | prpplague: yeah, good stuff |
| 19:28.45 | wmat | wow |
| 19:28.49 | prpplague | wmat: nothing new lately, most everyone is doing offline work |
| 19:28.58 | prpplague | wmat: untill after xmas |
| 19:29.00 | prpplague | wmat: ?? |
| 19:29.14 | wmat | prpplague: there's been daily changes up until yesterday |
| 19:29.27 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:29.39 | prpplague | wmat: that surprising? |
| 19:29.52 | wmat | prpplague: a little |
| 19:30.09 | wmat | prpplague: and we're up to 466 users |
| 19:30.11 | wmat | nice |
| 19:30.13 | prpplague | wmat: once everyone got used to the new wiki formating, its picked up |
| 19:30.31 | wmat | prpplague: we've got the new host now |
| 19:30.40 | prpplague | wmat: i've added a whole set of historical pages and gone through the missing pages |
| 19:30.42 | wmat | prpplague: I just have to move the site |
| 19:31.06 | prpplague | wmat: when do you have to move it by? |
| 19:31.20 | wmat | oh, there's no deadline actually |
| 19:31.26 | wmat | but the sooner the better |
| 19:31.50 | prpplague | wmat: how long is the switch over? because i'm off next week and want to do some wiki work |
| 19:32.17 | wmat | prpplague: it'll probably take an hour or two at longest |
| 19:32.30 | wmat | prpplague: I may leave it until after the holidays though |
| 19:32.38 | wmat | I'll do all the setup first |
| 19:32.42 | prpplague | wmat: that might be the best option |
| 19:33.32 | wmat | yeah |
| 19:33.33 | prpplague | wmat: any idea if i can get more admin access? |
| 19:33.39 | prpplague | wmat: since i stay up on the wiki alot |
| 19:33.47 | prpplague | wmat: i really would like to be able to do backups |
| 19:33.52 | wmat | prpplague: that shouldn't be a problem |
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| 19:37.17 | wmat | prpplague: the new host has a backups admin utility |
| 19:38.27 | prpplague | wmat: yea, i mainly wanted a backup to our box here |
| 19:42.42 | wmat | prpplague: ah, well, I'll check what the backup utility does. Perhaps it exports. |
| 19:44.10 | wmat | prpplague: it can backup to FTP |
| 19:44.27 | prpplague | wmat: that'd be nice |
| 19:48.16 | prpplague | ds2: soo...., the ft2232 is 30mA, the hammer is 100mA, the enc28j60 is 180mA, thats 310mA |
| 19:48.26 | GPSFan | prpplague: just discovered that the z2 bootloader is blob! |
| 19:48.38 | prpplague | ds2: so if we add a usb hosts we can use up to around 150mA |
| 19:48.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: hehe |
| 19:48.45 | prpplague | GPSFan: time to upgrade to apex |
| 19:49.04 | prpplague | GPSFan: means they need to release source for blob |
| 19:49.11 | GPSFan | indeed, I haven't seen blob refered to since the days of the tuxscreen. |
| 19:49.16 | GPSFan | indeed |
| 19:49.35 | prpplague | GPSFan: its actually still used on a bunch of mot phones iirc |
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| 20:05.18 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 20:16.22 | T0mW | prpplague: hey. is there any special reason that you chose to put the SPI controller into virtual address space 0x01100000 (+0xf0000000)? That was just arbitrary, right? Arbitrary as long as there wasn't an overlap with any other VA region. |
| 20:16.33 | T0mW | prpplague: am I on the right track with that thinking? |
| 20:17.08 | prpplague | T0mW: correct |
| 20:17.13 | T0mW | good |
| 20:17.54 | T0mW | prpplague: I've isolated the memory card interface patches and working on 2.6.22.5, just moving the enc28j60 now. |
| 20:18.13 | T0mW | this little processor is FAST |
| 20:18.17 | T0mW | :) |
| 20:27.37 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:28.08 | T0mW | prpplague: next step is to get apex to load the kernel from the ext2 memory card and boot it |
| 20:30.03 | T0mW | prpplague: btw, I was totally wrong about the DMA in 2.6.22, the moved the core functions from each within arch/arm/mach-s3c2410/dma.c and put them into arch/arm/plat-s3c24xx/dma.c |
| 20:30.27 | prpplague | T0mW: right, sorry i thought you knew that |
| 20:30.48 | T0mW | I didn't see that and when the linker complained of not finding functions, I assumed that the DMA was borked. Too many hours and not enough sleep. |
| 20:30.49 | T0mW | :( |
| 20:31.21 | T0mW | prpplague: It is nice to be working this deep into the kernel again. :) |
| 20:49.11 | hapchap_ | prpplague: "Oh god! Its got a blank screen!" |
| 20:49.21 | hapchap_ | prpplague: Me: Set the contrast |
| 20:49.35 | hapchap_ | prpplague: "Oh God! The keyboard is screwing up" |
| 20:49.51 | hapchap_ | prpplague: Me: "Set the keyboard model in the settings" |
| 20:50.16 | hapchap_ | prpplague: why does everyone over react during a product launch |
| 20:53.03 | sstallion | any buildroot guys around? |
| 20:53.11 | sstallion | noticing some odd behavior once i compile in udev |
| 20:58.18 | prpplague | hapchap_: hehe |
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| 21:44.28 | T0mW | hapchap_: because, if they were any more competent then they would have a different job??? |
| 22:06.39 | ds2 | prpplague: more reason why you need better power management ;) |
| 22:06.50 | prpplague | ds2: ? |
| 22:07.00 | prpplague | ds2: what reason is that? |
| 22:07.05 | ds2 | <prpplague> ds2: soo...., the ft2232 is 30mA, the hammer is 100mA, the |
| 22:07.05 | ds2 | +enc28j60 is 180mA, thats 310mA |
| 22:07.19 | prpplague | ds2: and? |
| 22:07.34 | ds2 | if you use better power management, you could bring down the hammer current draw |
| 22:07.46 | ds2 | prehaps put in a switcher... |
| 22:07.58 | prpplague | i don't understand |
| 22:08.22 | prpplague | ds2: what you are driving at |
| 22:08.24 | ds2 | prpplague: you were saying you are near the 500mA ceiling if there is a USB host on there |
| 22:08.32 | prpplague | ds2: yes? |
| 22:08.36 | ds2 | and I am just trying knudge you into reworking the hammer to use less power =) |
| 22:09.23 | prpplague | ds2: the only item you could "rework" is the usage of the ldo, and thats only going to buy you about 15-25mA |
| 22:09.26 | prpplague | at most |
| 22:09.38 | ds2 | chuck the LDO, use a switcher all the way |
| 22:09.45 | ds2 | make it 1231231231212x more complex =) |
| 22:09.59 | prpplague | ds2: i don't think so |
| 22:10.16 | ds2 | with a best case 5.5v in, you might be able to knock it down to maybe 65mAish range? |
| 22:10.19 | prpplague | ds2: anyway that leaves about 100mA for the host connector |
| 22:11.05 | prpplague | ds2: easiest thing to do if you want to get rid of the ldo is just provide your own 3.3v input |
| 22:19.57 | prpplague | ds2: i think i have plenty of room to do the usb host |
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