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| 02:46.37 | Mirell | Hmm... |
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| 07:22.39 | Sidharth | hello |
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| 14:44.35 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
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| 17:08.48 | chouimat | hi |
| 17:14.13 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:14.23 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 17:14.55 | chouimat | prpplague: hey |
| 17:15.18 | prpplague | chouimat greetings |
| 17:16.59 | chouimat | prpplague: it's so fun since there a guy who left to go work for Research In Motion (I guess he wanted a rim job) I received 30 emails yesterday about new task I will have to do next year ... |
| 17:17.15 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:17.25 | prpplague | chouimat bbiab need to restart networl |
| 17:18.11 | chouimat | prpplague: and me I need to go buy some pots and pans ... 75% off it's quite interesting on a 200$ set :) |
| 17:18.48 | prpplague | indeed |
| 17:19.38 | prpplague | GPSFan ping |
| 17:20.13 | prpplague | ~seen landley |
| 17:20.16 | purl | landley <n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 2d 7h 16m 1s ago, saying: 'Got what working again?'. |
| 17:20.39 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 17:20.49 | prpplague | chouimat is it too early to start drinking? |
| 17:21.12 | chouimat | it's pass noon here ... :) |
| 17:22.59 | *** join/#edev rom10 (n=raj6@CPE00062575886a-CM00186832000a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:23.14 | rom10 | Please help me with jtag |
| 17:24.57 | prpplague | rom10 what aspect of jtag are you needing help with? |
| 17:25.27 | prpplague | chouimat ok have a look at this, http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 17:25.41 | prpplague | chouimat i have two different cable options listed at the bottom |
| 17:25.50 | prpplague | chouimat which one do you think will work the best? |
| 17:25.57 | rom10 | I am using EA253 cable |
| 17:26.14 | rom10 | detect doesn't do anything |
| 17:26.18 | prpplague | chouimat option 1 will have a shorter cable, its just folded to take the pic |
| 17:26.43 | chouimat | prpplague: both look good ... |
| 17:27.01 | prpplague | rom10 ok first of all we have no clue what device you are connecting to, second we have no clue what software you are using, and third we have no clue what a EA253 is |
| 17:27.26 | rom10 | I am using linux Jtag package |
| 17:27.34 | chouimat | prpplague: I think option 2 might be harder to break ... I have problem with with cables ;) |
| 17:28.01 | prpplague | rom10 which linux jtag package is that? there are about 100 |
| 17:28.11 | rom10 | EA253 is the cable like Wiggler,ARCOM |
| 17:28.16 | rom10 | Jtag-Tools |
| 17:28.24 | chouimat | prpplague: + the local and unpublished fork :) |
| 17:28.37 | prpplague | chouimat indeed |
| 17:29.09 | rom10 | http://openwince.sourceforge.net/jtag/. I ma using this package |
| 17:29.12 | prpplague | rom10 what device are you trying to connect to? |
| 17:29.15 | chouimat | ok bb in 20 or 30 minutes |
| 17:29.21 | rom10 | wrv54g router |
| 17:29.28 | prpplague | chouimat i was thinking the shorter cable would be harder to connect to |
| 17:29.37 | prpplague | rom10 ahh |
| 17:30.07 | prpplague | rom10 probably need to go over to the wrt channel for assitance, iirc there are certain tweaks that are need to get jtag working with those devices |
| 17:30.19 | prpplague | isn't the wrv54g mips based? |
| 17:30.35 | rom10 | nope it is intel |
| 17:30.48 | prpplague | hehe funny |
| 17:30.56 | rom10 | that is wrt54g |
| 17:32.07 | prpplague | rom10 just a note, its not intel based, its xscale based |
| 17:32.27 | rom10 | but it is from intel right? |
| 17:32.55 | prpplague | the chip is manufactured by intel, but the chip itself is based on the xscale architecture |
| 17:32.58 | Mirell | It's never too early to start drinking. |
| 17:33.03 | rom10 | oh ok |
| 17:33.04 | prpplague | Mirell hehe |
| 17:33.43 | GPSFan | prpplague: g'day.. |
| 17:34.13 | prpplague | Mirell / GPSFan hey check the jtag cable options http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 17:34.48 | GPSFan | saw it, of the 2 I like the short one better. |
| 17:35.15 | GPSFan | even though both make the stack tall |
| 17:35.33 | Mirell | Hmm... |
| 17:35.43 | prpplague | indeed |
| 17:35.46 | Mirell | Personally, I hate ultra-short cables. |
| 17:36.00 | Mirell | 'cause it's a pain in the arse to do stuff with them at times. |
| 17:36.02 | Mirell | But that's me. |
| 17:36.24 | prpplague | Mirell thats me too, but so far most people are selecting option 2 |
| 17:36.56 | GPSFan | Mirell: good point but in this case it reduces the "wad" of stuff that needs to be crammed into the case. |
| 17:37.01 | prpplague | GPSFan still haven' figured out the other 2x7 header |
| 17:37.20 | rom10 | Prpplague any tips |
| 17:37.23 | prpplague | GPSFan yea, option one would have a shorter cable so it was long enought |
| 17:37.35 | GPSFan | prpplague: it's just for jumpers to control startup options? |
| 17:37.45 | prpplague | GPSFan indeed |
| 17:38.07 | prpplague | rom10 sorry, no i've not used that jtag package in years, i use openocd |
| 17:38.31 | prpplague | rom10 i assume you had to solder on some connections for the jtag |
| 17:38.54 | GPSFan | prpplague: can mopre than one jumper be used at at time? |
| 17:39.00 | GPSFan | more that is... |
| 17:39.13 | prpplague | rom10 if you have the correct config for your jtag package and your dongle is known good, i'd look at the solder connections on your device |
| 17:39.30 | prpplague | GPSFan correct, up to 7 can be used at once |
| 17:39.38 | rom10 | is it window based or linux based |
| 17:40.05 | prpplague | rom10 openocd runs on either, but is primarily linux based |
| 17:42.59 | prpplague | GPSFan just don't know if adding that 2x7 really adds anything |
| 17:43.18 | prpplague | GPSFan i'd really like to have it, but its going to add another 0.65" to the board |
| 17:43.23 | rom10 | r u familair with openocd |
| 17:43.43 | GPSFan | prpplague: how about do away with the 2x7 pin header and use 7 1 x 2 pin headers spaced along the side of the hammer chip? |
| 17:44.13 | prpplague | GPSFan thats doable |
| 17:44.34 | prpplague | we had planned on doing thru hold breakouts on each side of the hammer, not on the schematic |
| 17:44.37 | GPSFan | or a 1 x 14 pin each 2 would be a jumper location |
| 17:45.39 | prpplague | hmm |
| 17:45.53 | rom10 | does this openocd supports EA253 cable |
| 17:45.54 | GPSFan | but that is really something the normal carrier provides, the NAIL is really for portable sw debugging. if you need to put a logic analyzer on it, take it back to the lab. |
| 17:47.02 | prpplague | GPSFan indeed, it was mainly if someone want to hack it for something |
| 17:47.56 | GPSFan | prpplague: be careful of "feature creep". |
| 17:48.01 | prpplague | GPSFan indeed |
| 17:48.07 | prpplague | GPSFan working hard on that now |
| 17:48.36 | prpplague | GPSFan i think i'm just gonna push for the 2x7 header and deal with the extra 0.65" |
| 17:49.03 | GPSFan | prpplague: sounds like a good plan, just make the choice and go forward. |
| 17:49.35 | chouimat | back |
| 17:50.13 | prpplague | GPSFan so the overall board will be able 6" long |
| 17:50.54 | prpplague | brb, need to restart my network |
| 17:50.55 | GPSFan | cigar tupe size, T0mW will like it.. |
| 17:51.00 | GPSFan | tube... |
| 17:51.04 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:52.35 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:53.12 | prpplague | GPSFan yea i don't think 6" is too bad compared to 5.25" |
| 17:54.08 | GPSFan | prpplague: can you get a tube casefor it or will it be box-like? |
| 17:54.47 | Mirell | Okay, *quashes dirty thought* |
| 17:55.47 | rom10 | <prpplague> Does openocd supports EA253 cable |
| 17:55.57 | prpplague | GPSFan yea can do a tube case |
| 17:56.10 | prpplague | rom10 no clue, try checking the web site |
| 17:56.15 | rom10 | ok |
| 17:56.36 | prpplague | rom10 might thinking about getting an open source jtag dongle |
| 17:56.53 | rom10 | what is that |
| 17:57.14 | prpplague | rom10 a jtag dongle where the schematics are open and available to the public |
| 17:57.35 | rom10 | ok |
| 17:57.49 | prpplague | rom10 try join #openjtag |
| 17:57.54 | rom10 | ok |
| 17:58.32 | prpplague | GPSFan the only issue i have about the case is the buttons and leds are surface mounted, so you won't have access to them when they are in the case |
| 17:58.48 | prpplague | GPSFan thats kind why i was thinking a box with a removable lid |
| 17:59.21 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah in that case a box would be more flexible. |
| 17:59.41 | prpplague | GPSFan yea |
| 18:00.18 | Mirell | Twist the tube 2/3" of an inch to press switch 1, et cetera. |
| 18:00.34 | GPSFan | prpplague: "TinCan Tools, for the Developer on the go. Tools that let you work where you are, whereever that may be." |
| 18:02.51 | prpplague | GPSFan hehe |
| 18:03.02 | prpplague | Mirell yea that would pretty price for the case |
| 18:05.13 | Mirell | Minor details! |
| 18:07.52 | Mirell | Make it an optional accessory. |
| 18:15.51 | prpplague | Mirell hehe |
| 18:16.05 | prpplague | Mirell doubt we'd want to spend 10k on a tool for that |
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| 18:29.45 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 18:31.19 | prpplague | CP|home i'm regretting not getting XO's for the kids |
| 19:07.28 | SpeedEvil | Isn'g g1g1 still ongoing? |
| 19:23.07 | joe_bleau | I saw one of those TV ad spots a few weeks ago. Kinda surprised to have seen it. |
| 19:27.29 | prpplague | SpeedEvil yea, problem is already bought laptops for the kids |
| 19:29.01 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 19:29.21 | joe_bleau | Is OLPC complelely open? I can't seem to find the schematics. |
| 19:29.29 | SpeedEvil | no schematics |
| 19:30.17 | joe_bleau | WTF? |
| 19:30.17 | SpeedEvil | they wouldn't help as there are custom parts in there |
| 19:30.49 | joe_bleau | I'm with prpplague on this one then: no closed source hardware. |
| 19:31.08 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 19:31.26 | SpeedEvil | Compare it with all other laptops and it's a hell of a lot more open and maintainable. |
| 19:31.48 | SpeedEvil | Plus. hardware design takes actual real money. |
| 19:32.11 | SpeedEvil | It's not really amenable to open-source in many ways. |
| 19:32.39 | joe_bleau | Didn't Sun open source the HDL for a chip? |
| 19:32.49 | SpeedEvil | As - for example - open source people that know VHDL and are willing to work for nothing - reliably enough to base a project round them are rare. |
| 19:33.08 | SpeedEvil | Open source projects have real problems where the skill-sets needed are rare. |
| 19:35.09 | prpplague | indeed |
| 19:35.27 | prpplague | one of the neighbors got one |
| 19:35.38 | prpplague | first time i had a chance to really look at it |
| 19:35.41 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention you need actual funding for the hardware instances during testing. |
| 19:35.54 | prpplague | so far, their kids as well as ours love it |
| 19:36.36 | SpeedEvil | The whole 'faster, faster, faster, faster' model of laptops is broken. |
| 19:36.42 | SpeedEvil | and computers. |
| 19:37.07 | SpeedEvil | there is way too much concentration on more polygons/second, more RAM, ... and very little on actual software. |
| 19:37.21 | joe_bleau | I don't care about the funding. I just don't understand why it isn't an open project. |
| 19:37.35 | joe_bleau | But that hardly matters, as I understand that I'm not the target demographic. |
| 19:38.00 | SpeedEvil | joe_bleau: for one thing, making one of your own with schematics would take probably the best part of 500K |
| 19:38.13 | SpeedEvil | As the LCD isn't available. |
| 19:38.15 | joe_bleau | So? I never wanted to make one. |
| 19:39.12 | SpeedEvil | Personally I could care less about closed hardware. |
| 19:39.35 | SpeedEvil | As long as it's fully usable and documented from the software side. |
| 19:40.10 | joe_bleau | bbiab--library run. |
| 19:40.13 | SpeedEvil | With stuff like the ZX81 or computers of that era - it was possible to do random logic add-ons to the board practically. |
| 19:40.27 | SpeedEvil | With modern stuff, it's basically damn hard or impossible. |
| 19:41.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil indeed, thats kind of why we designed the hammer |
| 19:45.08 | prpplague | SpeedEvil you look at the different jtag options on the nail board? |
| 19:45.17 | prpplague | SpeedEvil http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 19:45.36 | SpeedEvil | no I haven't ... |
| 19:45.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil which option do your prefer? |
| 19:45.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil option 1 will have a shorter cable |
| 19:46.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil we just rolled one up for the photo |
| 19:48.13 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I don't get the context |
| 19:49.41 | SpeedEvil | In that I assume that's simply a veroboard or somthing similar that the hammer is resting on |
| 19:52.03 | prpplague | SpeedEvil correct, thats just to mock up the two different jtag options |
| 19:52.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil i.e. option 1 is the jtag connector is on the opposite end |
| 19:52.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil option 2 is on the same end |
| 19:52.41 | SpeedEvil | You mean moving the jtag connector of the hammer? |
| 19:52.47 | prpplague | SpeedEvil no |
| 19:52.56 | prpplague | SpeedEvil hehe |
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| 19:53.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil i need to connect the jtag header on the hammer to the board |
| 19:53.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil via a idc cable |
| 19:53.27 | Mirell | I wasn't too impressed with the OLPC. |
| 19:53.36 | prpplague | SpeedEvil the question is which end of the board should it be connected to |
| 19:53.39 | Mirell | I messed with it at OLS, couldn't figure the thing out. |
| 19:53.49 | *** join/#edev bbradley_ (n=bbradley@5ac808df.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:54.28 | SpeedEvil | Mirell: We're all screwed up by windows/X/... though. I don't know how much it will work for the real users |
| 19:54.58 | prpplague | SpeedEvil which goes to the article on /. today |
| 19:55.01 | Mirell | Also, the reboot time was horrrrrible. |
| 19:55.07 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I don't see why you'd consider a longer cable |
| 19:55.26 | SpeedEvil | Mirell: reboots should be something you never need. (ideally). suspend works well. |
| 19:56.07 | prpplague | SpeedEvil easier to install |
| 19:56.19 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: I hard-locked the sucker in 3 minutes, hence the reboot. |
| 19:56.49 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: true. |
| 19:57.28 | SpeedEvil | Mirell: that's all stuff that can be worked on though. |
| 19:58.53 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: personally, I don't see why the JTAG isn't on the other side of the board. |
| 19:59.20 | SpeedEvil | non-component that is |
| 20:00.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil can't plug it into a dip and still do jtag debugging |
| 20:00.16 | SpeedEvil | If you need it to program 'in system', you bring out another connector. |
| 20:01.36 | SpeedEvil | If I was designing it, I suspect I may have gone with 48 pin, with the JTAG on the end pins, with the JTAG pins as turned pin IC sockets. |
| 20:01.51 | SpeedEvil | so you could plug into a little adaptor. |
| 20:02.02 | prpplague | SpeedEvil yea we did a rev that way |
| 20:02.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil but the adaptor board added alot of expensive for little return |
| 20:02.32 | SpeedEvil | But I don't know. It's hard to say 'this is best' without actually looking into it. |
| 20:02.39 | prpplague | SpeedEvil we are considerin replacing it with a flex connector |
| 20:03.33 | SpeedEvil | I wonder about a board edge connector |
| 20:03.48 | prpplague | SpeedEvil mainly i was interested in those two options for this board though |
| 20:04.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil since the hammer isn't going to change for atleast 6 months |
| 20:06.09 | SpeedEvil | Is option 2 really hard to plug/unplug? Yes, I'd expect it to take maybe 3 or 4 back-and-forths. |
| 20:06.20 | SpeedEvil | but is that really going to be common? |
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| 20:06.59 | prpplague | SpeedEvil not sure, just trying to gauge the general feel for it |
| 20:07.09 | prpplague | looks like option 2 is where most people are going |
| 20:07.19 | SpeedEvil | Also I think if you bring the cable out the other sides of the IDC plugs - it'd be easy to plug/unplug |
| 20:07.42 | SpeedEvil | Or actually - just swap the plugs over. |
| 20:08.20 | SpeedEvil | I think I prefer 2 slightly - but only due to my current concentration on low mass. |
| 20:10.01 | SpeedEvil | As each gram costs me 350mW or so on my current design. |
| 20:10.15 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 20:10.19 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 20:10.34 | SpeedEvil | wave |
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| 22:31.27 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 22:31.54 | davidc__ | prpplague: merry fishmas! |
| 22:32.03 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:32.15 | prpplague | davidc__: whats cookin |
| 22:32.32 | davidc__ | prpplague: not much.. hacking away on my IDA replacement |
| 22:32.52 | prpplague | IDA? |
| 22:36.07 | *** join/#edev bbradley__ (n=bbradley@5ac8081d.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:39.57 | Mirell | ...interactive degree audit? |
| 22:44.13 | adyer | incredibly dumb idea? :-) |
| 22:46.52 | Mirell | That's IDI |
| 22:47.59 | adyer | you can cheat and capitalize the A in idea :-) afterall it's dumb... |
| 22:49.39 | Mirell | We'll have no Clarke acronyms here. |
| 22:56.29 | davidc__ | prpplague: Interactive DisAssembler |
| 22:56.42 | davidc__ | prpplague: its a big commercial piece of software used for reverse engineering |
| 22:57.59 | adyer | gasp - the DMCA police 'll be after ye |
| 22:58.18 | davidc__ | eh, I'm not reverse engineering anything |
| 22:58.24 | davidc__ | I'm writing something for reverse engineering ;) |
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| 23:00.56 | adyer | you must be one of the evil hackers I heard about on fox news, trampling the rights of decent copyright holders everywhere |
| 23:01.57 | davidc__ | adyer: meh, more like on the rights of consumer electronic manufacturers to lock up their devices ;) |
| 23:03.50 | prpplague | davidc__: sorry phone |
| 23:04.04 | Mirell | The Foxtrot cartoon today had a marvelous bit about the DMCA |
| 23:06.43 | prpplague | davidc__: fun fun |
| 23:13.14 | adyer | Mirell did you see that RIAA is now arguing ripping a CD is an unauthorized copy |
| 23:14.59 | prpplague | adyer: yea i saw that |
| 23:15.05 | prpplague | adyer: crazy isn't it |
| 23:15.39 | prpplague | adyer: i've also heard they have harrasing hardware folks that make the devices to convert lp's into mp3's |
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| 23:32.38 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 23:32.41 | prpplague | GPSFan: ping |
| 23:51.24 | GPSFan | prpplague: howdy.. |
| 23:58.07 | prpplague | GPSFan: one sec phone |