| 00:00.57 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@69.152.210.234) |
| 00:22.08 | prpplague | joe_bleau: hey joe waddaya know? |
| 00:32.09 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:33.06 | RobotGuy | I will have a LOT to post as I learn about Hammer and start to use it. :D I have many ideas! |
| 00:33.23 | RobotGuy | .msg nickserv identify M#4zX-7=lq9w |
| 00:33.37 | RobotGuy | Crap |
| 00:35.00 | RobotGuy | It doesn't like my password. :( |
| 00:39.20 | RobotGuy | -sigh- |
| 00:40.14 | RobotGuy | I get a good nick and for some reason nickserv does not like my password now. |
| 00:42.12 | RobotGuy | Is there some limit on password length? Mine is 12 characters. |
| 00:43.42 | Redhatter | Perhaps you meant /msg, not .msg? |
| 00:45.07 | Redhatter | IIRC, my bot uses a 16-char password to authenticate with NickSERV... so I don't think you've hit the limit. |
| 00:46.57 | RobotGuy | It does not work with /msg either. Now I have to change my password. |
| 00:49.42 | RobotGuy | They should not have been able to do that. |
| 00:49.46 | Redhatter | To something other than "M#4zX-7=lq9w" |
| 00:50.15 | RobotGuy | I have to first get nickserv to recognize me before I can change it. |
| 00:50.30 | RobotGuy | I am glad I added an e-mail address and linked my two nicks! |
| 00:52.02 | RobotGuy | It's been a LONG time since I used IRC. |
| 00:53.13 | RobotGuy | Is there a way this can be fixed so I can get my nicks back? |
| 00:53.42 | RobotGuy | I have alternate passwords already generated. :D |
| 00:54.51 | SpeedEvil | If your nicks are linked, and you're logged in as one, you can /nick to the other an remain authenticared |
| 00:55.02 | Redhatter | I'll see if one of the operators is about. |
| 00:55.05 | SpeedEvil | then you can change password |
| 00:56.12 | RobotGuy | Thanks. |
| 00:56.18 | Redhatter | Two Freenode IRCops usually idle in ##australia... I've pinged both, maybe one will respond. |
| 00:56.34 | RobotGuy | I appreciate that and sorry for the hassle. |
| 00:57.07 | Redhatter | [2008-01-03 10:55] <Redhatter> rob, Bhaal, Either of you two around? RobotGuy in #edev is having difficulties with his password. |
| 00:57.07 | Redhatter | [2008-01-03 10:56] <rob> Redhatter, tell him to /msg me |
| 00:58.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you get your email? |
| 01:01.13 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:01.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you get your email? |
| 01:01.35 | RobotGuy | Yes, I got it. I should get my kit Friday. :D:D |
| 01:02.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good deal |
| 01:02.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good deal |
| 01:02.27 | RobotGuy | I am very excited! |
| 01:20.04 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:21.02 | cajaka | RobotGuy: Is nickserv working better for you now? |
| 01:23.36 | Redhatter | Guess not. |
| 01:25.54 | *** join/#edev FireEgl (i=FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa) |
| 01:44.50 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@121.41.66.29) |
| 01:51.27 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RoboGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:57.59 | RobotGuy | So what is everyone doing with Hammer now? |
| 01:58.28 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.png RobotGuy |
| 01:58.46 | SpeedEvil | though more accurately - reading specs and wondering if I can do it cheaper. |
| 01:58.53 | SpeedEvil | I suspect I can't. |
| 02:00.14 | RobotGuy | That's cool. |
| 02:02.40 | RobotGuy | I am going to use it for my robots, as you might guess, after I learn how to build software for it. |
| 02:03.17 | SpeedEvil | what sort? |
| 02:04.10 | RobotGuy | Right now, I have a two wheeled rover called W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 02:04.27 | RobotGuy | I am building a small biped also. |
| 02:05.28 | SpeedEvil | Though actually I suspect it's of the same order of magnitude. |
| 02:05.38 | RobotGuy | I would not call a biped simple to control. |
| 02:06.01 | agaffney | biped locomotion is anything but simple :P |
| 02:06.13 | RobotGuy | I agree! |
| 02:06.36 | RobotGuy | I keep running out of program memory on W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 02:06.48 | RobotGuy | There is only 13KB |
| 02:07.03 | SpeedEvil | Neither is a thrust vectored device with thrust:weight of 1.5:1, not at all passively stable, with some 20 or so input position sensors, and varying aerodynamic performance at diffeing angles of attack. |
| 02:07.20 | SpeedEvil | that I want to be able to land completely automatically. |
| 02:07.23 | RobotGuy | That's complex, for sure. |
| 02:08.23 | RobotGuy | Hammer will be the new main controller on W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 02:09.08 | RobotGuy | I have been wanting a full Linux system that is small enough to put on a biped for a LONG time. |
| 02:09.22 | SpeedEvil | well - they've existed for a while - gut a PDA |
| 02:09.30 | SpeedEvil | but not in an easy to use form factor |
| 02:09.51 | RobotGuy | A PDA sized board would not work for a biped well. |
| 02:10.17 | RobotGuy | Hammer is small enough to put on a small board though. |
| 02:10.28 | SpeedEvil | The real problem I have is that I want it to be able to cope with - for example - being flipped 180 degrees by a seagull hitting it. |
| 02:10.45 | SpeedEvil | and recover and land. |
| 02:11.57 | SpeedEvil | As I'm aiming for >1000 flights between repairs. |
| 02:12.59 | RobotGuy | That's what accelerometers are for. |
| 02:14.01 | RobotGuy | I have an ARM7 board I am going to add a couple dsPICs to for motor control and handling the quadrature shaft encoders |
| 02:14.09 | RobotGuy | This will be slaved to Hammer. |
| 02:14.14 | RobotGuy | (eventually) |
| 02:15.16 | SpeedEvil | Oh I wish. |
| 02:15.42 | SpeedEvil | Accellerometers don't really help so much when you're on a platform with high thrust. |
| 02:16.30 | SpeedEvil | It's quite possible to fly into the ground with an accelerometer reading almost 1G (+-.1%) straight down all the time, from straight and level. |
| 02:16.38 | RobotGuy | I have a 3-axis accelerometer I plan to put on W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 02:17.10 | SpeedEvil | I've got 3 seperated by 120 degrees, to give rudimentary twist information if the gyros pin. |
| 02:18.25 | cajaka | SpeedEvil, what did you think of the IR sensor on the UAV project that was listed earlyer |
| 02:20.56 | SpeedEvil | Interesting - I plan on putting some on later. |
| 02:22.43 | RobotGuy | For those who are interested, you can find out all about W.A.L.T.E.R. at www.thedynaplex.org/robotics |
| 02:22.48 | SpeedEvil | They are good - but I'm unsure of how good. This one has so many sensors primarily so I can try doing real flights, then post-processing without sets of sensors to see which ones I can realistically lose |
| 02:23.18 | RobotGuy | I like to keep feet and wheels on the ground. :) |
| 02:25.22 | SpeedEvil | That dramatically simplifies 'am I upside down or not' questions. |
| 02:25.46 | RobotGuy | Definitely |
| 02:27.20 | RobotGuy | Are you familiar with Lynxmotion products? |
| 02:27.58 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 02:28.43 | RobotGuy | Go check out the BRAT biped at www.lynxmotion.com - I am building one now and want to put Hammer on it. |
| 02:29.01 | SpeedEvil | Ah - right |
| 02:29.07 | RobotGuy | It's a very small biped. |
| 02:30.29 | SpeedEvil | I assume it's for passively stable walking? |
| 02:30.31 | RobotGuy | Right now I have an Atom PRO MCU on a Bot Board II for the brain, but I want to use a small board of the same dimensions with a Hammer on it. |
| 02:31.10 | RobotGuy | I'm not sure what "passively stable" means. |
| 02:31.10 | SpeedEvil | as in you're not doing 'proper' controlled falling like humans |
| 02:31.18 | RobotGuy | Correct. |
| 02:31.42 | SpeedEvil | how high can it lift the feet? |
| 02:32.42 | RobotGuy | It's legs are only 3DOF, so I don't know yet. This is my first biped. |
| 02:33.52 | RobotGuy | The first thing I want to do with Hammer is get buildroot setup and add Python. |
| 02:34.27 | RobotGuy | I already do most of my development under Linux, but still need Windows for a few things like my 3D CAD package. |
| 02:35.31 | RobotGuy | I also have a RoboQuad (don't laugh now!) and I believe Hammer is small enough to fit into its head. |
| 02:36.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: full python? |
| 02:37.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: buildroot already includes smaller versions of python |
| 02:37.47 | RobotGuy | I want the full language. :) |
| 02:38.35 | RobotGuy | Python is one of my favorite programming languages, even though it is interpreted. |
| 02:39.46 | prpplague | http://buildroot.busybox.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/trunk/buildroot/package/python/ |
| 02:39.53 | prpplague | buildroot already has full python |
| 02:40.25 | RobotGuy | Cool! I guess I will have to find something else to add then, so I can learn how to use buildroot. ;) |
| 02:43.01 | RobotGuy | Right now I run Fedora 8 Linux, but I don't care for it much. |
| 02:43.44 | RobotGuy | I am also getting a license for Crossworks for ARM (Linux version). |
| 02:44.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ug |
| 02:44.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i hope its free |
| 02:44.54 | RobotGuy | It is not free, but I have not found an Open Source IDE I like yet. |
| 02:44.58 | RobotGuy | Why not? |
| 02:45.14 | RobotGuy | Maybe there is something I need to know. |
| 02:46.53 | RobotGuy | Especially if I am going to spend $155.00 on a license for it. |
| 02:47.07 | RobotGuy | I'd be using it partly for Hammer and for ARM7 also. |
| 02:50.10 | *** join/#edev JonHylands (n=hylandsj@CPE001c102333bd-CM0014e88f58e0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:52.36 | RobotGuy | Hi Jon! We meet again! |
| 02:52.52 | JonHylands | Hi |
| 02:53.05 | RobotGuy | <-- Lynxmotion linuxguy |
| 02:53.10 | prpplague | JonHylands: hey |
| 02:53.19 | JonHylands | I'm just debating about using the Hammer in MicroRaptor instead of Seeker 3 |
| 02:53.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: jon just got his hammer kit |
| 02:53.44 | JonHylands | (which is why I want to know about the FT232) |
| 02:53.49 | JonHylands | http://www.bioloid.info/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=MicroRaptor |
| 02:53.59 | RobotGuy | Maybe we can figure that out together. I am getting a Hammer kit this Friday. :D:D |
| 02:54.17 | JonHylands | I've been invited to give a talk at the Embedded Systems Conference in April in San Jose |
| 02:54.39 | JonHylands | I'm presenting 3 mobile Linux robots |
| 02:54.50 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:54.52 | RobotGuy | You are way beyond me if you are doing stuff like that. |
| 02:55.10 | prpplague | JonHylands: hey hey |
| 02:55.12 | RobotGuy | I just give talks to my cat. :) Welcome back |
| 02:55.15 | JonHylands | MicroSeeker (my AUV) runs on either a PDA or a gumstix |
| 02:55.23 | JonHylands | BrainBot uses a gumstix |
| 02:55.30 | prpplague | JonHylands: i responded on the forum to your questions |
| 02:55.42 | RobotGuy | I looked at Gumstix, but I don't care for all those fine pitch connectors. |
| 02:55.45 | JonHylands | I was going to put a gumstix on MicroRaptor, but it might be interesting to use the Hammer instead |
| 02:55.49 | prpplague | JonHylands: just curious what are using a usb->rs-232 for on the hammer? |
| 02:56.00 | JonHylands | http://www.bioloid.info/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=MicroRaptor |
| 02:56.17 | JonHylands | I can control the Bioloid bus using an FT-232 |
| 02:56.33 | RobotGuy | I like the Hammer because I can actually use it on a solderless breadboard. |
| 02:56.42 | prpplague | JonHylands: ahh you are using the fifo one? |
| 02:57.04 | JonHylands | fifo? I"m just using an FT232 |
| 02:57.16 | JonHylands | http://www.huvrobotics.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=5 |
| 02:57.20 | RobotGuy | I would just use a level shifter on the Hammer's serial port. |
| 02:57.24 | JonHylands | you can't |
| 02:57.38 | prpplague | JonHylands: why not? |
| 02:57.44 | JonHylands | the Bioloid bus is half-duplex, and both Tx and Rx are on the same wire |
| 02:57.53 | JonHylands | and it runs at 1.0 Mbps |
| 02:57.57 | prpplague | ahh |
| 02:58.32 | RobotGuy | I will be using I2C for inter-MCU communication. |
| 02:58.47 | JonHylands | prpplague: did you see my bit about the conference? |
| 02:59.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: sorry no |
| 02:59.22 | JonHylands | I've been invited to give a talk at the Embedded Systems Conference in April in San Jose |
| 02:59.22 | JonHylands | I'm presenting 3 mobile Linux robots |
| 02:59.31 | prpplague | JonHylands: oh cool |
| 02:59.36 | JonHylands | MicroSeeker (my AUV), BrainBot, and MicroRaptor |
| 02:59.44 | JonHylands | I was going to put a gumstix on MicroRaptor |
| 02:59.52 | JonHylands | but I thought the Hammer might be interesting there |
| 03:00.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: hehe, need an extra hammer for brainbot too? |
| 03:00.13 | JonHylands | no, we need wifi for that :-) |
| 03:00.40 | prpplague | usb dongle |
| 03:00.48 | JonHylands | we originally went with a USB dongle on the gumstix verdex |
| 03:00.53 | JonHylands | and had all kinds of issues |
| 03:01.05 | JonHylands | now we're using the verdex wifistix, and it works great |
| 03:01.34 | JonHylands | we also do realtime stremming audio in both directions |
| 03:01.39 | JonHylands | streaming |
| 03:01.48 | JonHylands | so having the audiostix is a big win |
| 03:02.00 | prpplague | JonHylands: ahh |
| 03:02.06 | RobotGuy | I still want a bot board style board for Hammer, something like Lynxmotion's Bot Board II (like the Mini-ABB) |
| 03:02.17 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea we have wifi module similiar to wifistix that we are finalizing |
| 03:02.22 | JonHylands | cool |
| 03:02.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats in the works now |
| 03:02.29 | JonHylands | I could definitely use that on MicroRaptor |
| 03:02.59 | JonHylands | the nice thing with MicroRaptor is all the sensors and actuators are on the Bioloid bus, so there are no real interfacing issues |
| 03:03.09 | prpplague | JonHylands: the driver for the ft232 thats available for the gumstix will work fine on the hammer |
| 03:03.19 | prpplague | JonHylands: i'll generate a patch for that tomorrow |
| 03:03.34 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 03:03.41 | RobotGuy | Linux and Hammer on EVERYTHING! :D:D |
| 03:04.15 | JonHylands | yeah, that's what I figured, although on the gumstix we can dynamically link in the .ko file for the driver |
| 03:04.35 | JonHylands | I looked at the /lib dir on the Hammer, and it appears its all statically linked? |
| 03:04.45 | JonHylands | er, statically built? |
| 03:05.57 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea the default kernel is monolithic, however it does support modules, so if you want to compile the module you can insmod it |
| 03:06.12 | JonHylands | okay, cool |
| 03:06.13 | prpplague | JonHylands: looks like its the standard ft-232 driver |
| 03:06.17 | prpplague | JonHylands: no mods |
| 03:06.37 | prpplague | JonHylands: so all you need to do is enable the driver as either a module or build a fresh kernel |
| 03:06.44 | JonHylands | yeah, okay |
| 03:07.19 | JonHylands | is the buildroot online? |
| 03:07.23 | JonHylands | or just on the CD? |
| 03:07.59 | prpplague | just on the cd for now, i'm putting it online in the morning |
| 03:08.05 | JonHylands | okay |
| 03:08.08 | RobotGuy | I am really looking forward to a Hammer bot board. :) |
| 03:08.41 | prpplague | JonHylands: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Software |
| 03:08.55 | JonHylands | I love the fact you included a USB host port on the carrier board |
| 03:09.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i'm hope'n you guys can give me some feedback on the bot board |
| 03:09.36 | prpplague | JonHylands: hehe yea its handy |
| 03:10.24 | RobotGuy | I will be very glad to give feedback on the bot board. If it is the same form factor as the Mini-ABB, it will mount directly to Lynxmotion's EC-02 electronics carrier. |
| 03:10.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not familiar with the mini-abb, got a url? |
| 03:11.00 | JonHylands | http://www.lynxmotion.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=66 |
| 03:11.47 | JonHylands | What I would like is a robot board with a USB port instead of a DB-9 |
| 03:12.04 | RobotGuy | http://www.lynxmotion.com/Product.aspx?productID=252&CategoryID=66 |
| 03:12.17 | JonHylands | I have to use a USB -> Serial converter to use the Hammer board |
| 03:12.18 | RobotGuy | Oh, you already got it. |
| 03:12.43 | RobotGuy | That would be ideal. Everything is going USB, and that is fine. |
| 03:12.48 | prpplague | JonHylands: a usb slave port? |
| 03:12.59 | RobotGuy | People are having a lot of problems with USB to serial adaptors. |
| 03:13.02 | JonHylands | no, an FT232 or something like that for the serial console |
| 03:13.20 | JonHylands | that's what I use with the gumstix |
| 03:13.38 | JonHylands | I use a FT232 board to hook into the TTL version of the console port |
| 03:14.25 | RobotGuy | The thing I really dislike about the Mini-ABB is you can't have TTL level on the serial port. It has to do with the way the MCU modules are setup. |
| 03:14.52 | RobotGuy | I'd like to be able to use Bluetooth on the console port. |
| 03:14.57 | JonHylands | Yeah, I wouldn't even need a USB port, just access to the console on TTL levels |
| 03:15.08 | prpplague | JonHylands: the flyswatter has a ft-2232 which is for both the jtag and a rs-232 |
| 03:15.15 | JonHylands | but you really need a hard-line connection, for when everything else doesn't work |
| 03:15.16 | JonHylands | brb |
| 03:15.47 | RobotGuy | I want to be able to monitor my robots remotely when they are walking or otherwise roaming around. |
| 03:16.29 | SpeedEvil | You should really call them minions. |
| 03:16.39 | SpeedEvil | And laugh manaically. |
| 03:16.51 | JonHylands | back |
| 03:16.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea you can add one of the sparkfun bluetooth modules on the uart for a remote connection |
| 03:16.58 | RobotGuy | Yeah, maybe. Sometimes I feel like an evil genius when I am building robots. |
| 03:17.05 | JonHylands | I put a TTL level port on Seeker 2x, that I can plug a BlueSMiRF into |
| 03:17.17 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: or simply a USB bluetooth module for cheaper. |
| 03:17.18 | prpplague | JonHylands: you can use the flyswatter to connect to the hammers console |
| 03:17.25 | RobotGuy | I have the Spark Fun Bluetooth DIL module, based on the NXP BGB203. |
| 03:17.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea that would work, i've got the earlier models |
| 03:18.20 | RobotGuy | My first hardware mod will be to add my Bluetooth module to the carrier board (socketed, of course). |
| 03:18.38 | RobotGuy | I have the large antenna for it too. |
| 03:18.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, you can do that as well, but if you need the host ports for other things, it can be connected to the uart |
| 03:18.49 | JonHylands | So the console port is on the JTAG header? |
| 03:19.22 | prpplague | JonHylands: no, just use the included rs-232 cable to connect to db-9 on the carrier board, to the db-9 on the flyswatter |
| 03:19.24 | RobotGuy | My ARM7 board has an LPC2148 on it. |
| 03:19.40 | JonHylands | oh |
| 03:19.43 | RobotGuy | Just enough room to add my Bluetooth module and a couple dsPICs. |
| 03:19.45 | SpeedEvil | bluetooth or wifi 802.11A module too |
| 03:20.55 | JonHylands | which port is the console? D0 or D2? |
| 03:21.25 | RobotGuy | I have http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8461 |
| 03:21.40 | prpplague | JonHylands: i'm sorry, i did not understand your question |
| 03:21.54 | flyback- | <prpplague> JonHylands: the flyswatter has a ft-2232 which is for both the jtag and a rs-232 |
| 03:22.11 | JonHylands | The console port on the Hammer, which serial port is it? If I wanted to connect to it at a TTL level, can I? |
| 03:23.10 | JonHylands | TXD0/RXD0 and TXD2/RXD2 are both available on the 40-pin connector |
| 03:23.11 | prpplague | yea, if you look at the schematic for the carrier board, you can connect at ttl level if you want. its uart0 |
| 03:23.28 | prpplague | txd0/rxd0 |
| 03:23.44 | JonHylands | okay, good |
| 03:24.01 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I want the flexibility to use either bluetooth, or 802.11A at 5Ghz - for non-interference, with a dish, for good range. |
| 03:24.07 | prpplague | its ttl out on the hammer |
| 03:24.30 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: so the serial modem works well |
| 03:24.36 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I don't see why that should not be possible. |
| 03:24.58 | RobotGuy | My Bluetooth module has SPI, standard TTL level serial, and USB. |
| 03:25.20 | prpplague | JonHylands: thats your board design for the ft232? |
| 03:25.22 | SpeedEvil | yeah - I just don't see the reason to buy sparkfun, rather than just use a USB oene. |
| 03:25.24 | JonHylands | yes |
| 03:25.26 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:25.40 | JonHylands | prpplague: any timeline on the wifi module? |
| 03:25.55 | RobotGuy | WiFI would be wonderful with hammer! |
| 03:27.02 | SpeedEvil | what's wrong with USB? |
| 03:27.23 | JonHylands | I have a couple D-Link DWL-G122 usb dongles, would be nice if they worked |
| 03:29.28 | SpeedEvil | yeah - you need to pick the dongle :( |
| 03:29.57 | prpplague | JonHylands: its pretty close, we have most everything in the main tree |
| 03:30.08 | prpplague | JonHylands: working out the last little bit now |
| 03:30.19 | prpplague | JonHylands: probably in like 45 days |
| 03:30.26 | JonHylands | that will work for sure |
| 03:30.51 | prpplague | JonHylands: dwl-g122 dongles? |
| 03:30.54 | JonHylands | yeah |
| 03:31.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: i'm not familiar with those |
| 03:31.08 | prpplague | JonHylands: wifi? |
| 03:31.12 | JonHylands | yeah |
| 03:31.39 | prpplague | ahh |
| 03:31.56 | prpplague | if they work under standard linux they will work on the hammer |
| 03:32.41 | JonHylands | it doesn't matter, if you guys will have a wifi module for me to try in a month and a half |
| 03:32.42 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:32.56 | prpplague | JonHylands: http://www.zcomax.com/embedded/XG-181MU/XG-180MU-DS.pdf |
| 03:33.00 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 03:33.29 | RobotGuy | Do I have to msg an op to recover the password for my alt-nick? |
| 03:33.30 | JonHylands | Sweet, so its an SPI module? |
| 03:33.41 | prpplague | JonHylands: landley also has a hammer kit |
| 03:33.47 | JonHylands | cool |
| 03:33.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, try over in #freenode |
| 03:34.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think they could help you there |
| 03:34.16 | SpeedEvil | if yoy've linked nicks |
| 03:34.26 | SpeedEvil | and are logged in as one |
| 03:34.57 | SpeedEvil | then you can nick to the other and chane pw |
| 03:35.17 | flyback- | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomthegeek/80692303/ |
| 03:36.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea spi based |
| 03:36.14 | prpplague | JonHylands: performance isn't bad at all |
| 03:36.21 | JonHylands | sounds awesome |
| 03:36.26 | prpplague | JonHylands: not as good as something like a cf card |
| 03:36.34 | prpplague | JonHylands: but its pretty usable |
| 03:36.55 | JonHylands | will be good for what I want, which is just ssh-level access, and remote logging |
| 03:37.01 | prpplague | JonHylands: just a not, we have a larger board being held for release |
| 03:37.08 | JonHylands | wouldn't work for BrainBot - we need full speed for what we're doing on that |
| 03:37.39 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board |
| 03:37.54 | prpplague | JonHylands: alot more i/o |
| 03:38.09 | JonHylands | that one is faster as well, right? |
| 03:38.10 | prpplague | JonHylands: what kind of problems did you have with usb wifi? |
| 03:38.20 | prpplague | JonHylands: no, same speed 200mhz |
| 03:38.22 | JonHylands | getting it to work reliably |
| 03:38.41 | SpeedEvil | zd1211 works for me |
| 03:38.44 | JonHylands | I went down to NH, had a demo, tried to connect to their router, wouldn't work |
| 03:38.56 | SpeedEvil | even has a penguin on the box |
| 03:39.04 | JonHylands | then I bought a couple more dongles, and they changed the chip slightly, enough so the driver didn't work anymore |
| 03:39.06 | prpplague | JonHylands: ahh what brand dongle were you using? |
| 03:39.11 | JonHylands | D-Link |
| 03:39.18 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea theres the main problem, hehe |
| 03:39.30 | JonHylands | the new wifi modules are great, works every time |
| 03:39.46 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea, iirc the wifistix is 88w8385 based |
| 03:39.51 | prpplague | JonHylands: same as ours |
| 03:40.42 | landley | prpplague: hello. |
| 03:40.55 | JonHylands | I don't know which one, but its a Marvell module I believe |
| 03:41.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea marvell |
| 03:41.55 | prpplague | JonHylands: the 88w8388 is usb interface, it works very well, its the chip used int OLPC laptop |
| 03:42.10 | JonHylands | cool, I didn't know that |
| 03:43.02 | landley | What's brainbot? |
| 03:43.30 | JonHylands | http://www.bioloid.info/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=BrainEngineering+BrainBot |
| 03:44.46 | JonHylands | Basically a multi-modal humanoid that a group in the US is using for doing AI research |
| 03:44.55 | JonHylands | I'm building it for them |
| 03:48.45 | JonHylands | So, prpplague, do you have any problem with me using the Hammer on MicroRaptor instead of Seeker 3? |
| 03:48.47 | landley | So what is this sledgehammer board thing? |
| 03:48.57 | prpplague | JonHylands: none |
| 03:49.02 | JonHylands | cool |
| 03:49.23 | landley | And is there a particular reason you're recycling the AMD code names from x86-64 development? |
| 03:49.30 | JonHylands | Should hopefully generate a bit more exposure for you guys at the conference |
| 03:49.31 | prpplague | landley: big brother to the hammer, more i/o, complete suspend/resume support |
| 03:49.59 | landley | I generally offload suspend/resume on the LInux kernel. |
| 03:50.04 | prpplague | landley: hehe, no, it just so happens it fits with the company naming scheme |
| 03:50.17 | prpplague | landley: right, but the hardware has to support it |
| 03:50.28 | prpplague | landley: the hammer has not hardware to do suspend/resume |
| 03:50.43 | prpplague | s/not/no |
| 03:51.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea, go for it |
| 03:54.15 | landley | prpplague: you can suspend to disk across NFS if you _really_ want to screw with a few things. :) |
| 03:54.45 | prpplague | landley: ahh indeed |
| 03:54.46 | landley | I remember when the kernel guys prevented swapon of a swap file on an NFS partition. |
| 03:55.09 | landley | And I remember people creating an ext2 filesystem image on NFS, loopback mounting it, and swaponing a file in _that_. |
| 03:55.15 | landley | And it worked, more or less. :) |
| 03:55.20 | prpplague | landley: but with correct hardware support on the s3c2410, you can suspend and drop the current draw down to around 10mA |
| 03:55.27 | landley | There's always an uglier solution... |
| 03:55.27 | agaffney | landley: ewwwwwwww |
| 03:55.34 | prpplague | landley: hehehe |
| 03:55.41 | landley | But it got them through their use case. |
| 03:55.57 | landley | Needed to do a native build on a system that didn't had enough memory, it only had to work _once_, for five minutes... |
| 03:56.06 | landley | The charred remains of the system could be swept up afterwards... |
| 03:56.14 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 03:56.33 | RobotGuy | A good friend of mine just asked me if I got him a free Hammer goodie bag. What is that? |
| 03:56.34 | landley | And with the wrong hardware you can do "suspend to disk" into free space on the flash, with a gzip wrapper. |
| 03:56.43 | landley | Which might or might not work depending on what you've got in ram... |
| 03:57.08 | landley | RobotGuy: if you're a software person, wait for the nail board. |
| 03:57.11 | landley | It looks _cool_. |
| 03:57.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe no idea |
| 03:57.21 | landley | I spent 2 hours today writing documentation for it, admittedly on spec... |
| 03:57.30 | prpplague | landley: hehe interesting |
| 03:57.44 | prpplague | landley: RobotGuy and JonHylands are into robotics |
| 03:57.56 | RobotGuy | Yes, we are. :) |
| 03:58.18 | RobotGuy | You probably couldn't tell by my nick though. :) |
| 03:58.45 | landley | I should introduce you guys to the austin robot group... |
| 03:59.00 | landley | Although it's been a while since I've seen them. (Linucon was last held in... 2005, was it?) |
| 03:59.05 | RobotGuy | I am already active in PARTS and the Seattle group. |
| 03:59.26 | RobotGuy | They have Yahoo groups. |
| 03:59.41 | RobotGuy | PARTS is our local Robotics Club. |
| 04:00.20 | RobotGuy | I am more interested in the bot board for Hammer. |
| 04:00.33 | landley | Is there a list of these boards? |
| 04:00.43 | landley | Sledgehammer doesn't seem to be "hammer in a carrier" like nail and the thing they sent me... |
| 04:00.54 | RobotGuy | What is nailboard? |
| 04:00.59 | prpplague | landley: no, its an entirely new board |
| 04:01.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 04:01.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its in early stages of dev |
| 04:01.49 | prpplague | landley: i'm organizing a list to post tomorrow |
| 04:02.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: actual size will be 1.1" x 5" |
| 04:02.29 | landley | prpplague: prpplague: http://landley.net/thyme.txt |
| 04:02.33 | landley | View as text, not html. |
| 04:02.46 | landley | Random ramblings still needing editing, but I've finally started the docs... |
| 04:03.12 | landley | I have a python script that turns the funky "section" things into a bullet point index with links to sections within the document, I'll run that later... |
| 04:03.55 | JonHylands | brb |
| 04:03.56 | RobotGuy | Interesting. |
| 04:04.17 | landley | The cut and pastes of the earlier conversation are of course so I remember what to go over. Much removal of text pending. |
| 04:04.29 | landley | But at the moment, I've only _added_ maybe the first 1/5 of the material I need to, anyway... |
| 04:04.40 | landley | But this is the _kind_ of docs I think people will need. |
| 04:04.41 | prpplague | landley: looks pretty darn good |
| 04:05.03 | prpplague | landley: indeed, i'm afraid i'm too close to alot of it to write good docs |
| 04:05.18 | prpplague | landley: that doc looks pretty good start |
| 04:06.09 | RobotGuy | Did you know the ODSL is right almost in my backyard? |
| 04:06.24 | landley | RobotGuy: I don't work for them anymore. |
| 04:06.38 | landley | Cool anyway. :) |
| 04:06.41 | RobotGuy | Is Linus Torvalds still there? |
| 04:06.51 | landley | Linus still gets a paycheck from them. |
| 04:06.56 | RobotGuy | I should know that already. |
| 04:06.59 | landley | But he's never _physically_ been there. He telecommutes. |
| 04:07.38 | RobotGuy | I'm disabled, no job for me. |
| 04:07.48 | prpplague | landley: hehe, the nail? |
| 04:07.56 | landley | Among other things. |
| 04:07.59 | RobotGuy | So I have a LOT of time to tinker with stuff. |
| 04:08.40 | landley | Although not necessarily about the health bits. |
| 04:09.09 | RobotGuy | You would definitely not want to have to deal with my disability, but most of the time I do OK here by myself. |
| 04:09.20 | JonHylands | back |
| 04:10.17 | JonHylands | prpplague: are you guys going to be at the embedded systems conference? |
| 04:10.58 | RobotGuy | I am thinking about adding the dsPICs right on the Hammer Carrier rather than my ARM7 board. |
| 04:11.41 | RobotGuy | And of course my Bluetooth module has to be there too. :) |
| 04:12.02 | prpplague | JonHylands: not sure as of yet |
| 04:12.18 | JonHylands | Are you guys in Silicon Valley? |
| 04:12.39 | JonHylands | or Texas? |
| 04:12.41 | prpplague | JonHylands: hehe, no, Dallas |
| 04:16.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: dsPICs sounds interesting |
| 04:16.51 | RobotGuy | Microchip dsPICs and PICs. |
| 04:17.22 | RobotGuy | I am going to use the dsPIC30F4012 because they are 28-pin and each as one hardware quadrature encoder module. |
| 04:17.51 | landley | Dallas is technically a part of Texas, last I checked. |
| 04:17.52 | RobotGuy | These would be slaved via I2C to the Hammer. |
| 04:17.59 | landley | Austin may or may not be, depending on who you ask. |
| 04:19.00 | prpplague | landley: hehe it was a lagged anser to the silicon valley question, hehe |
| 04:23.16 | prpplague | landley: don't forget in your docs that you have two push buttons |
| 04:23.35 | JonHylands | RobotGuy - have you thought about using multi-master with I2C? |
| 04:24.06 | RobotGuy | I've thought about multi-master, but it is more than I need right now. |
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| 04:29.35 | prpplague | landley: ok it looks like my current docs should dove tail with yours |
| 04:29.46 | prpplague | landley: i.e. the jtag tutorial |
| 04:33.07 | landley | Yay. |
| 04:33.10 | landley | I'm happy to link out... |
| 04:34.53 | prpplague | yea, i was thinking more on the lines of maybe using the nail board docs as a core for the embedded book we talked about |
| 04:36.02 | landley | Sounds good to me. |
| 04:37.51 | RobotGuy | Do you have an idea of what the bot board might be like yet? |
| 04:37.59 | prpplague | okie dokie folks, back to work in the morning as well as kids to school, so of to bed for me |
| 04:38.13 | RobotGuy | G'Night Prpplague |
| 04:38.15 | JonHylands | my kids have another week off |
| 04:38.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we were looking at something similar to the nextstep board from lynxmotion |
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| 04:38.35 | RobotGuy | Ahhhh, OK. |
| 04:38.45 | prpplague | JonHylands: fun fun, my wife is already going nuts with kids being at the house for so long |
| 04:38.53 | RobotGuy | I think that is a predecessor to the Mini-ABB |
| 04:38.58 | prpplague | later folks, i'll be on irc all day tomorrow |
| 04:47.31 | JonHylands | heading out |
| 04:49.59 | RobotGuy | I'll be back later. Bye for now. |
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| 10:51.40 | SpeedEvil | On a random point. |
| 10:51.55 | SpeedEvil | freescale have some interesting cheap control parts. |
| 10:52.04 | SpeedEvil | for the auto industry. |
| 10:52.20 | SpeedEvil | highside, lowside drivers, chips with I2C-PWM, ... |
| 10:53.07 | SpeedEvil | I'm considering some for my UAV along with the pressure sensors |
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| 14:29.14 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 14:44.00 | Mirell | 'lo |
| 14:44.50 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 14:45.55 | Mirell | 'lo prpplague |
| 14:46.16 | prpplague | Mirell: greetings |
| 14:46.21 | prpplague | Mirell: already at work? |
| 14:46.27 | chouimat|work | hey prpplague |
| 14:46.33 | Mirell | prpplague: Ayup. |
| 14:46.49 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greetings |
| 14:46.51 | Mirell | prpplague: Apparently a critical system is failing, and my coworkers are furiously working, but I can't do anything |
| 14:46.57 | prpplague | Mirell: doh |
| 14:47.24 | Mirell | The whole lack of logins or education for any of the machines. |
| 14:48.04 | prpplague | Mirell: that tends to happen in windows environments |
| 14:48.11 | prpplague | or atleast that has been my experience |
| 14:48.17 | Mirell | prpplague: Oh, the servers are Red Hat Enterprise. |
| 14:48.39 | prpplague | Mirell: but i suspect the folks maintaining them are windows trained |
| 14:48.48 | Mirell | prpplague: Yah... |
| 14:49.18 | prpplague | different mindset |
| 14:50.54 | chouimat|work | prpplague: you don't need a mind to take care of windows ... just a brainless automaton ... you should read thedailywtf more often ;) |
| 14:51.18 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:54.58 | SpeedEvil | http://www.arpro.com/basics.php |
| 14:55.02 | SpeedEvil | 'data' |
| 14:55.10 | SpeedEvil | on expanded foam. |
| 14:55.12 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 14:55.54 | SpeedEvil | I spent 300 hours writing flash applets that go ping, and no you can't see the actual numbers. |
| 14:56.32 | prpplague | ~quote scoxq.pk |
| 14:57.35 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:58.24 | Mirell | Mmm. |
| 15:03.00 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:03.06 | prpplague | too much work too little time |
| 15:04.39 | Mirell | Exact oppossite. |
| 15:04.44 | Mirell | With better spelling. |
| 15:07.01 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:07.56 | chouimat|work | prpplague: scox was delisted iirc |
| 15:08.21 | SpeedEvil | dunno when that was effective from thoguh |
| 15:17.37 | prpplague | chouimat|work: from nasdaq |
| 15:17.51 | prpplague | chouimat|work: but it is still a publically traded company |
| 15:18.07 | prpplague | chouimat|work: new symbol is scoxq.pk |
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| 15:20.48 | Mirell | Huh, why does Qemu hate trying to boot the Ubuntu CD |
| 15:21.05 | chouimat|work | Mirell: because ubuntu sucks? |
| 15:21.10 | Mirell | Uh, no. |
| 15:21.12 | chouimat|work | and qemu is smart :) |
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| 18:26.09 | T0mW | awfully quiet around here today, is everyone depressed now that the holidays are over? |
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| 18:26.33 | chouimat|work | T0mW: just tired and busy |
| 18:26.38 | T0mW | heh |
| 18:26.45 | landley | Nah, I'm over on #firmware handling a tinycc bug somebody's reporting. |
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| 19:12.36 | prpplague | wmat: you get the wiki switched over? |
| 19:15.41 | wmat | prpplague: not yet,i'm still out of commission parently ;) |
| 19:15.51 | wmat | parenting, that is |
| 19:15.57 | prpplague | wmat: ?? |
| 19:16.31 | wmat | prpplague: I want to set aside enough time to do it and I'm only at the computer for small snippets right now |
| 19:16.58 | prpplague | wmat: ahh ok |
| 19:17.14 | prpplague | wmat: you get your hammer ordered? |
| 19:17.38 | wmat | prpplague: I'm going to ping the guys at movial tomorrow to get me a final dump of the database over the weekend (hopefully) |
| 19:17.54 | wmat | prpplague: haven't ordered yet unfortunately |
| 19:18.00 | prpplague | wmat: ahh ok |
| 19:18.29 | wmat | prpplague: I have to add the atmel board i have first to our board configurations, then the hammer is next |
| 19:18.30 | prpplague | wmat: please drop me an email when the dump is complete so i don't add anything untill the switch over |
| 19:19.00 | wmat | prpplague: will do + I'll post on the wiki itself and turn off update capability |
| 19:19.01 | prpplague | wmat: have you been following the nail board dev? |
| 19:19.08 | prpplague | wmat: ahh good |
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| 19:23.52 | landley | prpplague: is there a source control archive for the contents of the Nail board's developer ISO? |
| 19:24.45 | landley | Not quite sure how one does a wiki dump to HTML for a browseable archive one can have on their laptop... |
| 19:25.05 | landley | But you can't always just dial out to the web for the latest and greatest. |
| 19:37.19 | T0mW | ~seen monmotha? |
| 19:37.21 | purl | monmotha <n=monmotha@c-69-245-153-193.hsd1.in.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #handhelds, 14d 14h 32m 17s ago, saying: 'not that that's hard, it removes itself practicaly (the little clip inside the unit is worn)'. |
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| 19:53.32 | prpplague | landley: yea we have the a cvs repo for the hammer dev |
| 19:53.40 | prpplague | landley: buildroot and kernel |
| 19:53.45 | landley | cvs? |
| 19:53.54 | landley | My condolences. |
| 19:53.54 | prpplague | landley: as well as bootloader and related code |
| 19:53.57 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 19:54.06 | prpplague | landley: i'm an old stick in the mud as far as that goes |
| 19:54.11 | landley | I'll email you changes then. |
| 19:54.19 | prpplague | landley: it works for me |
| 19:54.43 | landley | Is there a cvs web gateway anywhere that shows you a patch that spans more than one file? |
| 19:55.31 | landley | "This change hit 5 related files all at once. Then this other change (hitting 3 files) went in right afterwards. |
| 19:55.50 | landley | I've never been able to get that info out of cvs. It goes "durr, this file got changed! In isolation! There are no other files in the project!" |
| 19:56.14 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 19:56.35 | prpplague | landley: yea that info only works of you do tagging properly |
| 19:56.53 | prpplague | landley: i.e. tag before and after applying the patch |
| 19:57.07 | landley | Tag the whole project before and after applying each patch? |
| 19:57.16 | landley | You're serious? |
| 19:57.19 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 19:57.29 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:57.40 | prpplague | i didn't say cvs was perfect, just its what i know |
| 19:57.49 | landley | This is not a simple lack of going there, this is an active removal of going-thereitude. |
| 19:57.53 | flyback- | prpplague: |
| 19:57.56 | prpplague | we are making plans to switch to svn later this year |
| 19:57.56 | flyback- | prororororororororororor |
| 19:57.57 | flyback- | prororororororororororor |
| 19:58.06 | landley | prpplague: try mercurial. |
| 19:58.07 | flyback- | sorry your nick put me into a terrettes fit |
| 19:58.10 | landley | It's really really really really cool. |
| 19:58.20 | landley | And this is from someone who general hates all tools. |
| 19:59.03 | flyback- | prpplague: a few weeks ago I bought a "travel solutions" 35 in 1 flash reader from biglots for $12 |
| 19:59.03 | flyback- | it has a alcor single lun flash reader chip |
| 19:59.03 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:59.04 | flyback- | except for the problem of more than 1 flash device being stuck into it at once = causes the ifrst to get kicked out |
| 19:59.06 | prpplague | landley: yea, i remember discussing it with you awhile back when you were looking to switch over the busybox/buildroot repo |
| 19:59.10 | flyback- | it runs beautifully so far |
| 19:59.25 | landley | (I despise vi, which is my primary editor. KDE annoys me, but it's the least bad desktop. The linux kernel's way too darn big and complicated...) |
| 19:59.27 | flyback- | prpplague: so I suspect the alcor ont the juicebox flash readers was just on a crappy board |
| 19:59.41 | landley | I just try to find the least objectionable tools. But I _like_ mercurial. Mostly. |
| 19:59.56 | prpplague | landley: hehe indeed |
| 20:00.20 | landley | (And despise git, which is based on the same general principles, just with a horrible user interface and implemented as 5 clashing layers of unnecessary code.) |
| 20:00.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: get your package yet? |
| 20:00.32 | RobotGuy | I don't think so. |
| 20:00.43 | landley | mercurial... really hasn't got much in it to object to. Which is kind of refreshing, actually. |
| 20:01.13 | landley | (I've _broken_ it, repeatedly. But so far, not because of a "you're doing it wrong" moment.) |
| 20:01.28 | landley | Not on their part, anyway... |
| 20:01.28 | prpplague | landley: yea, the only problem i really had with it when i looked at it was that we'd have to spend some time on training for the rest of the software people |
| 20:02.21 | landley | I could give you a one page cheat sheet. |
| 20:02.23 | landley | Single sided. |
| 20:02.25 | landley | Double spaced. |
| 20:02.30 | landley | It's _that_easy_. |
| 20:03.07 | landley | Let me give you an example of a "that just makes so much sense" moment in mercurial. |
| 20:03.26 | landley | Mercurial has a built in web repository viewer. |
| 20:03.30 | *** part/#edev flyback- (n=ubuntu@c-24-131-197-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:03.45 | landley | Something like http://landley.net/hg/firmware isn't a separate program, that comes built into mercurial. |
| 20:03.55 | landley | The way you grab a copy of a repository from the internet? |
| 20:04.20 | landley | hg clone http://landley.net/hg/firmware |
| 20:04.35 | landley | I.E. the web viewer for the repository _is_ the way the repository is published. |
| 20:04.37 | landley | They're the same thing. |
| 20:04.51 | landley | A "mercurial server" is just a webserver with a python cgi plugin. |
| 20:05.07 | landley | (Or you can go "hg serve" and it'll do it itself, but then it's only one project per port number.) |
| 20:05.48 | landley | There's no such thing as a "mercurial server" that _isn't_ a human-browsable web repository viewer. |
| 20:06.10 | prpplague | landley: hmm, thats pertty interesting |
| 20:06.12 | landley | (It's also skinnable so it can _look_ entirely different, but I never bothered to learn how to configure that.) |
| 20:06.34 | landley | Create a new project: "hg init". You're done. |
| 20:06.42 | landley | Add files to the project: hg add filename [filename...] |
| 20:06.54 | landley | Checkin files: hg commit filename [filename...] |
| 20:06.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh no, it's scheduled for tomorrow |
| 20:07.11 | landley | Leave off the filenames in the commit and it'll check in all files that have changed (or been added) since the last checkin. |
| 20:07.28 | prpplague | sounds pretty straight forward |
| 20:07.45 | landley | The entire repository is stored in a ".hg" directory in the top level directory of your project. |
| 20:08.04 | landley | You can set up access control so multiple people can check into a server, but I've never bothered. |
| 20:08.24 | landley | I have other people put up web viewers for their repositories, I pull their changes into mine, and then I rsync my .hg directory up to my web server. |
| 20:08.40 | landley | And this works. Not just by accident, it's _designed_ to allow this. |
| 20:09.14 | landley | (Yes, it's distributed source control: my laptop has a complete copy of the entire repository history.) |
| 20:09.43 | prpplague | hmm, i'll have to set it up and give it a try in the next few months |
| 20:09.45 | landley | So I can do "hg log", diff with old versions, or revert to an arbitrary historical version without being connected to the net. |
| 20:10.01 | landley | I can check stuff in, without having to be online. |
| 20:10.05 | landley | That is _so_cool_. |
| 20:10.09 | prpplague | landley: hmm, what about converting changlog info over from cvs? |
| 20:10.29 | landley | It's got a plugin that's supposed to do that automatically. |
| 20:10.36 | prpplague | landley: ahh interesting |
| 20:10.43 | landley | I've never actually tried to make it work. |
| 20:10.44 | prpplague | landley: guess i'll give it a try |
| 20:10.47 | landley | Lemme see if I can dig up the reference... |
| 20:11.21 | landley | http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/ConvertExtension |
| 20:11.38 | landley | http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/RepositoryConversion |
| 20:11.55 | landley | Their basic documentation is a wiki. |
| 20:12.16 | landley | As you can tell, I'm not a fan of most tools. |
| 20:12.42 | landley | My working style involves hitting things with a hammer muttering about the deficiencies of the hammer. |
| 20:12.42 | prpplague | hehe indeed |
| 20:12.52 | landley | "while". |
| 20:13.06 | prpplague | landley: i find the wiki's work well for me, its mailing lists that i have problems with |
| 20:13.58 | prpplague | mailing lists are too non-interactive for me |
| 20:15.47 | prpplague | landley: each to his own, hehe |
| 20:16.35 | RobotGuy | I made a couple changes to the Wiki last night. |
| 20:17.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i noticed |
| 20:17.40 | RobotGuy | I just changed a couple colors and corrected one error. |
| 20:19.30 | RobotGuy | Has anyone used the Code::Blocks IDE? |
| 20:21.57 | *** join/#edev flyback- (n=ubuntu@c-24-131-197-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:21.58 | flyback- | http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/be/2a/6561_1.JPG |
| 20:24.55 | landley | prpplague: by the way, one note about the mercurial web viewer? |
| 20:25.08 | landley | notice the "bz2", "zip", and "gz" links at the top of each page? |
| 20:25.13 | prpplague | yep |
| 20:25.17 | landley | Click on one, and you get a tarball of the version you're looking at. |
| 20:25.36 | landley | So people who don't use mercurial can easily grab any arbitrary historical version (or the most current one) by nativating to the appropriate page, and clicking on the link. |
| 20:25.45 | landley | It generates those suckers upon request. |
| 20:25.50 | landley | And notice the "rss" link? |
| 20:26.00 | landley | If you want to see all checkins, use the rss link on the main page. |
| 20:26.01 | prpplague | landley: whats the best way to view a tree of the source? |
| 20:26.08 | landley | Click "manifest". |
| 20:27.09 | landley | Click "tags" to see all tagged releases. |
| 20:27.23 | landley | And note that that page also has an rss feed, if you just want to be notified of releases... |
| 20:27.46 | landley | And yes, each tag is a link. |
| 20:27.59 | landley | There's a reason I like this sucker... |
| 20:28.48 | prpplague | yea, it'll take a little bit to learn to navigate and get the info i need, but looks nice |
| 20:29.01 | RobotGuy | I need to set up some sort of source control here for my own stuff. |
| 20:31.34 | RobotGuy | The PARTS (local robotics club) has a meeting this Saturday. |
| 20:32.25 | prpplague | ~quote scoxq.pk |
| 20:32.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hopedfully you'll have your hammer board by then |
| 20:38.08 | landley | ~help |
| 20:38.15 | landley | Hey, it worked! |
| 20:39.11 | landley | prpplague: they got deslisted, didn't they? |
| 20:39.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I am hoping! I am thinking about taking my Hammer kit to the meeting if I go to show it off. |
| 20:39.45 | prpplague | landley: yea, from nasdaq |
| 20:39.53 | prpplague | landley: but they are still publically traded |
| 20:40.33 | RobotGuy | I need to add a regulator and battery connector to the carrier board before I can use it for a robot controller. |
| 20:40.52 | RobotGuy | And support components. |
| 20:41.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yep, try using the tps63000 |
| 20:41.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: works pretty darn good |
| 20:41.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for low power apps |
| 20:41.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you got a bigger battery, a standard 7805 will do |
| 20:42.50 | RobotGuy | On W.A.L.T.E.R. I run two 7.2V battery packs. |
| 20:43.12 | prpplague | ahh so you have plenty of juice |
| 20:43.16 | RobotGuy | The BRAT will have a single 6.0V 1600 mAH pack. |
| 20:43.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: rc battery? |
| 20:43.51 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. has plenty of power, one battery just for motors, the other just for electronics. |
| 20:44.10 | RobotGuy | Yes, same batteries that can be used in R/C |
| 20:44.16 | RobotGuy | Well, same style of batteries. |
| 20:44.51 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 21:17.57 | Mirell | From outer space. |
| 21:18.46 | prpplague | greetings earthlings |
| 21:19.26 | Mirell | Can you bring me a third monitor to put me in multi-tasking heaven? |
| 21:19.47 | landley | Mirell: you use your iphone screen. |
| 21:19.52 | landley | You can run vnc on that thing, can't you? |
| 21:20.27 | Mirell | Riiiight. |
| 21:20.34 | Mirell | I was thinking something a wee bit bigger. |
| 21:20.49 | Mirell | Although, that reminds me, I need to bring up a charger cable for my phone up here. |
| 21:28.22 | prpplague | landley: just a quicky note, you could run remote x session on your laptop from the nail board |
| 21:29.23 | landley | prpplague: I know. I'm pondering setting that up. |
| 21:29.37 | RobotGuy | I have to switch to Windows for awhile. :( I'll install mIRC and be back soon. |
| 21:29.50 | landley | I historically haven't taken my normal chainsaw-fu to X11 because back when I started playing with it, smoke coming out of your monitor was a serious possiblity. |
| 21:30.10 | landley | I have, in fact, fried the LCD on a laptop while playing with X11. |
| 21:30.22 | landley | (Hey, I got a display resolution that looked great and worked fine for _three_months_.) |
| 21:30.26 | prpplague | landley: hehe btdt |
| 21:30.44 | prpplague | landley: i'm planning to try it with xnest |
| 21:30.45 | landley | The constant squealing noise the video chip made the whole time was a side effect I never quite managed to eliminate. |
| 21:30.46 | SpeedEvil | LCDs just die. |
| 21:30.52 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 21:31.09 | landley | And I point out that the video chip wasn't the first one to die, the keyboard controller went out first and I had to use an external keyboard for a month before the video chip itself finally blew out. |
| 21:31.34 | landley | More a whistling noise than a squealing noise, really. |
| 21:31.47 | landley | However, I do maintain that solid state electronics, in normal operation, should not be audible. |
| 21:32.15 | SpeedEvil | well - badly constructed inductors can be noisy |
| 21:32.19 | SpeedEvil | though reliable |
| 21:32.24 | landley | (When I say "I break stuff", people seldom appreciate the full _depth_ of it...) |
| 21:32.50 | landley | What happens when you use & on a shell builtin function? |
| 21:33.10 | landley | Do all your basic commands like "cat" and "echo" _really_ return a nonzero exit value when you redirect their output ot /dev/full? |
| 21:34.05 | landley | I broke the user mode linux tty output once. |
| 21:34.29 | landley | Apparently, nobody'd ever tested the ability of /dev/console to recover from short writes. |
| 21:34.45 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:35.09 | landley | (How do you get /dev/console to have short writes? Pipe the output of UML to tee and load the system heavily enough that tee gets scheduled out long enough for the pipe buffer to fill up.) |
| 21:35.12 | Mirell | Just need to stay awake for another hour and a half. |
| 21:35.25 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe |
| 21:36.05 | landley | And ctrl-z generates short writes in pipelines, too. How many of your programs are guaranteed not to discard data if write() only writes _some_ of the data... To _stdout_? |
| 21:36.16 | landley | Been there, broke that. |
| 21:36.20 | prpplague | Mirell: better stay awake, robert goulet will mess with you |
| 21:36.43 | landley | Mirell: gotten anything to actually _do_ yet? |
| 21:36.49 | Mirell | landley: Nope! |
| 21:36.55 | landley | Par for the course. |
| 21:37.13 | landley | By about week 3, you should have an actual workload. |
| 21:37.20 | prpplague | Mirell: http://www.ifilm.com/video/2819731/collection/18373/minisite/superbowl |
| 21:37.30 | landley | The question is, will it start up this week, or will it take a full 3 weeks? |
| 21:38.20 | prpplague | landley: hehe, when i started at AML, they started sending me work 4 weeks before my first day at the office |
| 21:39.20 | landley | prpplague: I take it that was a small company? |
| 21:39.50 | Mirell | I had to convince someone this morning though that you can tunnel rsync over SSH |
| 21:39.57 | prpplague | landley: hehe, no we are medium sized, but they fired someone in the middle of a dev project |
| 21:40.10 | prpplague | landley: they wanted to make sure on my first day i could hit the floor running |
| 21:40.15 | landley | Mirell: -e |
| 21:40.19 | landley | That's what -e is for, isn't it? |
| 21:40.20 | prpplague | Mirell: ha |
| 21:40.21 | Mirell | landley: I know. |
| 21:40.25 | Mirell | It's dead obvious. |
| 21:40.31 | landley | Ah, but what can you tunnel _ssh_ over? :) |
| 21:40.39 | Mirell | But they were like, "Okay, we'll have to network mount the remote drive to be able to rsync... |
| 21:41.07 | landley | I still can't top the fact that loading Linux on an S390 involves breaking the kernel up into 80 byte records and feeding it into a virtual punch card reader. |
| 21:41.11 | landley | I simply can't top that one. |
| 21:41.12 | prpplague | Mirell: should blow their mind to run a remote x app over ssh |
| 21:41.46 | prpplague | landley: that is good, ibm srec file? |
| 21:42.00 | landley | I made a vpn out of ssh years ago. |
| 21:42.20 | landley | ssh and netcat, a simple daemon (which I've since rewritten in python), and some iptables rules. |
| 21:42.29 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:42.31 | Mirell | Oh dear God, they don't even have a real DNS server. |
| 21:42.34 | Mirell | They use NetBIOS |
| 21:42.42 | landley | prpplague: you'd have to ask Jay Maynard. I didn't try it myself. |
| 21:43.02 | prpplague | landley: back when i worked for ABCS, we had an app that was originally written for sco openserver. we'd just coverted it over to linux and i was at OLS |
| 21:43.42 | prpplague | landley: the IBM had a brand new regatta server, i loaded the app on there and ran a database re-org that usually takes about 10 minutes |
| 21:43.56 | prpplague | landley: the screen flickered and was back at the prompt |
| 21:44.12 | prpplague | landley: i thought something was wrong, but i actually did the re-org in less than 2 seconds |
| 21:44.52 | Mirell | AAAAAAAIEEEE |
| 21:44.58 | Mirell | WHY DO THEY USE STATIC HOST FILES |
| 21:45.24 | prpplague | ~emulate abcs |
| 21:45.25 | purl | if we can't sell it for 500% markup we aren't interested! |
| 21:45.40 | prpplague | ~emulate abcs |
| 21:45.40 | purl | i have great idea, lets sell buggy software and charge to fix it!! |
| 21:45.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:45.56 | prpplague | ~emulate abcs |
| 21:45.56 | purl | i have great idea, lets sell buggy software and charge to fix it!! |
| 21:46.13 | prpplague | ~emulate abcs |
| 21:46.14 | purl | if we can't sell it for 500% markup we aren't interested! |
| 21:46.25 | prpplague | hmm i thought there was another one |
| 21:46.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ? |
| 21:47.06 | RobotGuy | No worries. I just don't like working in Windows. ;) |
| 21:47.32 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:48.06 | Mirell | Oh Lord Jesus Christ.. |
| 21:48.18 | Mirell | They're complaining about their hosts files being different on some machines, |
| 21:48.38 | Mirell | So they want to network map all the other machine's drives, have a single hosts file, and rsync that way, |
| 21:48.46 | Mirell | To keep the hosts files all the same and up-to-date. |
| 21:48.49 | RobotGuy | The only Windows software I have purchased is Alibre Design Expert. |
| 21:49.10 | prpplague | Mirell: oh lord |
| 21:49.30 | prpplague | Mirell: these windows boxes? |
| 21:49.41 | davidc__ | Mirell: yuck... cron job on each machine to pull a host file? |
| 21:49.43 | Mirell | Nope, Red Hat Enterprise. |
| 21:50.01 | prpplague | Mirell: there are like a million better ways to do that |
| 21:50.06 | Mirell | prpplague: No shit. |
| 21:50.13 | Mirell | Which is why I'm like, Aieeeffgfdgf. |
| 21:50.17 | prpplague | Mirell: tftp, wget, dhcp with static ip's |
| 21:50.21 | Mirell | But I are lowly new employee. |
| 21:50.33 | davidc__ | better yet, skip hosts files+ setup internal dns |
| 21:50.38 | Mirell | davidc__: Exactly. |
| 21:51.06 | prpplague | <Mirell> prpplague: Apparently a critical system is failing, and my coworkers are furiously working, but I can't do anything |
| 21:51.19 | Mirell | Yep, yep. |
| 21:51.34 | prpplague | Mirell: i have you one up thought |
| 21:51.42 | Mirell | Hmm? |
| 21:52.02 | prpplague | Mirell: when i started at AML, their entire code base was on a single usb thumbdrive with no revision control |
| 21:52.10 | Mirell | ffs. |
| 21:52.28 | Mirell | Wow. |
| 21:52.48 | prpplague | Mirell: gets better, the guy i replace dropped it in the toilet |
| 21:53.05 | prpplague | Mirell: spend 2 days drying it off and getting it recovered to a server |
| 21:53.28 | Mirell | ...marvelous. |
| 21:54.56 | landley | prpplague: and no backups? |
| 21:55.01 | Mirell | How did that company stay in business. |
| 21:55.03 | prpplague | landley: nope |
| 21:55.23 | landley | Did it wind up in the toilet intentionally when they fired him, or was doing that by accident the reason he got fired? |
| 21:55.48 | prpplague | landley: by accident, it was in his shirt pocket |
| 21:56.18 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe, well it was the early days of embedded linux, so they were hiring local linux "hackers" |
| 21:56.23 | prpplague | Mirell: not really professionals |
| 21:56.42 | landley | Not professional != stupid. |
| 21:57.21 | prpplague | landley: hehe yea that is true, but i've seen alot of wannabie hackers who talk the talk, but dont walk the walk |
| 21:57.27 | prpplague | landley: not exactly team players |
| 21:58.11 | prpplague | Mirell: took me three months to basically get everything organized into some semblence of a normal dev environment |
| 21:58.17 | Mirell | prpplague: Ahh. |
| 21:58.25 | Mirell | Hmm..what reversion control are we using... |
| 21:58.28 | Mirell | Perforce, I think. |
| 21:58.31 | Mirell | Never heard of it myself. |
| 21:58.44 | prpplague | Mirell: yea thats a commercial app |
| 21:59.07 | prpplague | Mirell: we've been using cvs since 2001 |
| 21:59.16 | Mirell | Why not Subversion? |
| 21:59.23 | prpplague | Mirell: i think landley has me convinced on moving over to mercurial |
| 21:59.41 | landley | Yay! |
| 21:59.52 | Mirell | Hee |
| 21:59.54 | prpplague | Mirell: cvs was just what i was used to and as you can tell from my story, i had alot of work when i started |
| 21:59.59 | Mirell | Yah |
| 22:00.21 | landley | I have now converted both Mirell and Eric Raymond to mercurial. |
| 22:01.03 | landley | (Eric wouldn't use mercurial until Emacs' revision control mode thingy properly supported it, and since Eric wrote that initially he spent a month rewriting it last year...) |
| 22:01.16 | landley | Last I heard he was trying to convince Richard Stallman to move Emacs development off of cvs. |
| 22:01.39 | Mirell | Heh |
| 22:01.54 | Mirell | I wonder when I'll be able to get my laptop. |
| 22:04.35 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 22:06.10 | prpplague | hmm |
| 22:06.30 | prpplague | i'm guess that we'll seem $3.50/gallon gas prices by the end of march |
| 22:06.40 | Mirell | No doubt. |
| 22:06.45 | *** join/#edev Redhatter-Out (n=stuartl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) |
| 22:06.50 | Mirell | Didn't a barrel go up to $100 today? |
| 22:06.57 | prpplague | yea |
| 22:08.35 | landley | Did the bush family make the initial fortune from texas oil? Aren't they friends with the saudi royal family? Didn't gas start its upward march during the 2000 election? |
| 22:08.55 | landley | Why are you surprised by any of this? |
| 22:10.37 | prpplague | landley: actually the upwards rise started around 1999, when opec was suffering from very very low oil prices |
| 22:10.49 | prpplague | landley: they began cutting back production dramatically |
| 22:11.13 | RobotGuy | Would Mercurial be worthwhile for a small source control setup? |
| 22:11.22 | Mirell | RobotGuy: Most definitely. |
| 22:12.09 | landley | prpplague: actually china went from zero imports to becoming the second largest oil importer in the world (after us) in about a 3 year period, and then India followed. |
| 22:12.12 | landley | But I still blame Bush. :) |
| 22:12.14 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm, OK, I will look at it. I just need something for my own stuff right now, but I can see wanting to allow access to others in the future also. I run my own server here. |
| 22:12.46 | landley | I use mercurial for several of my own projects that I never even publish the repository for, like small web pages and such. |
| 22:12.47 | RobotGuy | Where do I find out about Mercurial? |
| 22:12.51 | landley | it's really convenient. |
| 22:13.07 | landley | Matt mackall gave a great OLS presentation on it back in 2006, lemme dig up a link... |
| 22:13.12 | RobotGuy | I have 7 websites of my own I should have under source control. |
| 22:13.30 | RobotGuy | Plus my programming projects. |
| 22:13.47 | prpplague | landley: http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif |
| 22:13.54 | prpplague | landley: see the low spike at 1999 |
| 22:14.29 | prpplague | landley: thats the lowest it had ever been |
| 22:14.48 | prpplague | landley: so opec decided they'd never let that happen again, and started cutting back on production |
| 22:14.53 | landley | http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/Presentations?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ols-mercurial.pdf |
| 22:15.13 | prpplague | landley: so they could control supply/demand better |
| 22:15.27 | landley | The corresponding paper is at http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2006/ols2006v2-pages-91-98.pdf |
| 22:15.36 | prpplague | landley: opec leaders actually worked with debeers to study how they controlled the diamond market |
| 22:16.20 | RobotGuy | I just found a bug in the software I have to use to work on a project I am doing, and it is a show stopper. |
| 22:16.33 | landley | prpplague: so the fact that when the riyadh fields were first drilled steam injection got out 20% water and 80% oil, and by 2001 it was 80% water and 20% oil, has nothing to do with it? |
| 22:17.12 | landley | Kind of unavoidable hanging around UT... |
| 22:17.27 | prpplague | landley: no, i don't believe that is the sole issue |
| 22:17.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Any idea when the Hammer Bot Board will be available or when we can look at preliminary info on it? |
| 22:17.39 | landley | Every interesting phenomena is overdetermined. |
| 22:17.51 | landley | Not being the sole issue doesn't mean it's not important. |
| 22:17.56 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 22:18.24 | prpplague | landley: but i find alot of people try to place "blame" on a single issue, not realizing that many issues contrbiute |
| 22:18.28 | prpplague | contribute |
| 22:18.38 | landley | China was the reason the spike was so quick. |
| 22:18.48 | landley | Opec resolving to limit production has been an annual event since 1973. |
| 22:18.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looking at first of q2 |
| 22:18.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i.e. april |
| 22:19.16 | prpplague | landley: indeed but here is the kicker |
| 22:19.35 | landley | Debeers is a single organization controlling a small number of mines. OPEC is a dozen different states each of which benefits by screwing over the others. |
| 22:20.00 | prpplague | landley: in places like texas there are thousands of "low production" wells that produce 20 or 30 barrels a day, but at $20 a barrel they aren't worth operating |
| 22:20.13 | prpplague | landley: so many of the oil well owners have then cap'd |
| 22:20.35 | landley | Oil shale works similarly. |
| 22:20.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's not too far away. I'm rather anxious to get away from using the MCUs that run W.A.L.T.E.R. at present so I don't have to deal with buggy development software. |
| 22:20.58 | prpplague | landley: so now that the price is high again its still not cost effective to uncap them due to the expensive of getting the well operational again |
| 22:21.02 | landley | Keep in mind that when gasoline tops $3/gallon, a half-dozen different alternative energy sources start to become cost effective. |
| 22:21.12 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 22:21.16 | landley | (Although the $3 figure is from the 1990's so inflation's had a while to drive it up a bit.) |
| 22:21.28 | landley | But the point remains: opec has strong incentive to prevent the price from going too high. |
| 22:21.39 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. will be a Hammer controlled robot ASAP. :D:D |
| 22:21.55 | prpplague | landley: right now, depending on where in the city you are, we are paying between 2.96 and 3.06 |
| 22:21.59 | landley | The only thing that stops the US from electrolyzing water to produce hydrogen via windmill power on a massive scale is that the infrastructure would cost tens of billions of dollars. |
| 22:22.12 | prpplague | yep |
| 22:22.16 | landley | Inflation's probably pushed the figure up to more like $5 now. |
| 22:22.32 | landley | We've had HUGE inflation under bush, they just discount "volatile food, energy, and anything else we don't import from china". |
| 22:22.41 | RobotGuy | I have to go get some sockets for my dsPICs and such so I will be ready to start working with Hammer tomorrow. BBIAB! |
| 22:22.47 | landley | Because nobody anywhere actually has to buy food or energy on a regular basis... |
| 22:22.51 | landley | That stuff doesn't count... |
| 22:23.37 | landley | prpplague: you are aware that in the flurry of wall street scandals of the Enron/worldcom/Tyco era, ever major oil company restated the size of their reserves down by at least 50%? |
| 22:23.51 | landley | They'd been overestimating the amount of new oil they'd discovered since the 80's. |
| 22:23.58 | prpplague | indeed |
| 22:24.12 | landley | But no, peak production isn't an interesting phenomena. Riiiight. :) |
| 22:24.40 | landley | I heard people talking about some huge new discovery off the cost of south america recently, and my first thought was "how"? |
| 22:24.51 | landley | We've had sattelites since the 70's. |
| 22:24.56 | landley | Good computer models since the 80's. |
| 22:25.06 | landley | Geological surveys using shock waves to map miles down... |
| 22:25.19 | prpplague | landley: yea, i don't believe there are alot of big discoveries left, but managing the ones we have is a pretty big deal |
| 22:25.25 | landley | Gravitational thingies that can tell you the ocean level to within milimeters can tell you what's under the water generating gravity... |
| 22:25.39 | prpplague | landley: there are literally a hundred thousand wells in texas that are cap'd |
| 22:25.39 | landley | The bigger the oil deposit is, the easier it is to _find_. |
| 22:25.49 | landley | It's the _little_ ones that hide. |
| 22:26.03 | landley | prpplague: sure. For the same reason oil shale isn't mined in huge quantities. |
| 22:26.12 | landley | Biodiesel's still cheaper. |
| 22:26.29 | landley | The point of oil isn't that it's the only energy source, it's that it's cheap, plentiful, and easy to transport. |
| 22:26.44 | landley | Zap the cheap and plentiful and lots of other things come into play. |
| 22:26.48 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 22:26.50 | landley | Ethanol is not one of them, but... |
| 22:26.58 | Mirell | E85! |
| 22:27.07 | landley | B17! |
| 22:27.25 | landley | You sank my multivitamin! |
| 22:27.40 | Mirell | Heh |
| 22:27.43 | prpplague | landley: as to the inflation, actually the highest inflation rates post despression era were under jimmy carter |
| 22:27.48 | landley | Oh sure. |
| 22:27.59 | landley | We've had _more_ incompetent people than Bush. |
| 22:28.09 | landley | He still hasn't quite matched Andrew Jackson for sheer idiocy. |
| 22:28.10 | Crofton|home | not many though |
| 22:28.46 | landley | I'd worry a lot more about the future of the country if I wasn't familiar with the history of the FBI. |
| 22:29.13 | landley | J. Edgar Hoover got so much power opposing organized crime during prohibition that they had to wait for the "for life" bureau director to die before they could fix it. |
| 22:29.39 | landley | Cheny's office of domestic surveilance is unlikely to outlive him by _too_ much. |
| 22:30.06 | landley | The baby boomers were the reason the 1950's were child-safe (they were kids), and the 1960's were sex drugs and rock and roll (they were teenagers). |
| 22:30.22 | landley | Int he 1970's the baby boomers were in their 20's trying to date, and we had disco and bell bottoms. |
| 22:30.48 | landley | In the 1980's they were thirtysomethings, and in addition to the TV show of that name we had yuppies due to the flood of middle managers finally making real money. |
| 22:31.07 | landley | In the 1990's they were all in their 40's, started realizing that retirement would happen to them someday, and the stock market got flooded with cash. |
| 22:31.28 | landley | And now in the 2000's their in their 50's starting to think seriously about dying and they all got conservative and religious and turned into republicans. |
| 22:31.49 | landley | Newt Gingrich and successors were the price we paid for a demographic big enough to pull off Woodstock. |
| 22:31.59 | landley | They'll start to retire in another few years. |
| 22:32.42 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:32.57 | landley | Keep in mind that the half-life of any major event in the american consciousness is 9-12 months. |
| 22:33.07 | *** join/#edev coreyfro (n=coreyfro@63.204.219.4) |
| 22:33.11 | landley | Doesn't matter if it's 9/11, hurricaine andrew, nancy kerrigan's kneecap, the OJ simpson trial... |
| 22:33.29 | landley | We care half as much a year later. |
| 22:33.41 | landley | Takes a while to wear off when you bury the needle like that, but wear off it does. |
| 22:33.44 | landley | And has, pretty much. |
| 22:34.00 | Mirell | Unless you were directly affected. |
| 22:34.15 | prpplague | landley: indeed, thats what the founding fathers of the US were afraid of, Rule By Mob, that the masses would demand something be done about x on a short term , but it not be a viable solution for the long term |
| 22:34.24 | landley | About as many people were _directly_ affected by the oklahoma city bombing. |
| 22:34.42 | prpplague | landley: that was the primary intent of having the senators |
| 22:34.51 | prpplague | landley: so they'd be less moved by the masses |
| 22:35.07 | landley | Which is why we have the ability to undo things like the japanese internment camps during world war II and lincoln's suspention of habeas corpus. |
| 22:35.20 | landley | The war of 1812 was pretty stupid. So was the spanish-american war. |
| 22:35.32 | landley | Dumb wars are a specialty of this country. Always have been. |
| 22:35.49 | prpplague | i can agree with you on the war of 1812 |
| 22:37.14 | landley | And _that's_ how you can tell this is an embedded development channel. :) |
| 22:37.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:39.00 | Mirell | In other news, I'm dying of hunger. |
| 22:39.23 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 22:39.36 | prpplague | Mirell: hold on there, its almost beer thirty |
| 22:39.51 | Mirell | Heh. |
| 22:39.56 | Mirell | Never heard that before. |
| 22:40.42 | prpplague | Mirell: i'm guessing you probably are either originally from austin or somewhere outside of texas |
| 22:40.53 | Mirell | Little rock, AR |
| 22:41.04 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe |
| 22:42.41 | prpplague | landley: sooo, the EE has decided instead of using an off the shelf power management chip, we are going to use all custom power and charging circuits controlled via an avr |
| 22:42.55 | prpplague | landley: guess who has to write the avr code to make all this work? |
| 22:44.23 | landley | Um, cool? |
| 22:44.25 | landley | What's an avr? |
| 22:44.51 | prpplague | landley: a small risc based microcontroller |
| 22:44.59 | landley | ok |
| 22:45.17 | prpplague | landley: not so cool, since power management and charging are very tricky and complicated |
| 22:45.28 | prpplague | landley: its not something you just "whip up" |
| 22:45.45 | prpplague | landley: basically the EE is setting the software team up for failure |
| 22:46.21 | Mirell | landley: You hungry soon? |
| 22:46.22 | landley | Did you mention this to somebody management-wise? |
| 22:46.30 | landley | Mirell: I'm at chick-fil-a today. |
| 22:46.34 | Mirell | Ah. |
| 22:46.53 | landley | The south one. Probably still be here until 7-ish. |
| 22:47.09 | prpplague | landley: indeed, this EE has only been here about 8 months |
| 22:47.27 | landley | This is for the nail board? |
| 22:47.40 | prpplague | landley: no, this is my "day job" at AML |
| 22:47.43 | landley | ah. |
| 22:48.15 | Mirell | I like how you put it in quotes. |
| 22:48.44 | prpplague | landley: not sure if i explained but, at AML we do lots of designs for dev purposes, once the project is complete the early dev boards go on the shelf unused |
| 22:49.17 | prpplague | landley: the owner of AML has started tincantools to market some of our dev boards and designs that normaly get shelved after we are done |
| 22:49.35 | landley | ah. |
| 22:49.46 | landley | You mentioned it, but I wasn't connecting it with AML. |
| 22:49.49 | prpplague | landley: so my primary work is with AML, but as i have down time, i work on tincantools support and such |
| 22:50.33 | prpplague | landley: conversly we are using tincantools to experiment with different designs that can be used in future products for AML |
| 22:51.15 | landley | Cool. |
| 22:51.23 | landley | What does AML _do_? |
| 22:51.46 | prpplague | landley: hehe, we were the very first company to product a linux based handheld for inventory control |
| 22:51.52 | prpplague | landley: mostly industrial handhelds |
| 22:52.03 | prpplague | landley: and industrial terminals |
| 22:52.25 | prpplague | http://www.amltd.com/ |
| 22:52.38 | prpplague | only about 5% of our designs are on the web site |
| 22:52.56 | prpplague | the rest are done as business to business designs |
| 22:55.08 | prpplague | landley: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3329091313.html |
| 22:57.39 | prpplague | landley: oh oh oh , you gotta see the pic of the nail case |
| 22:59.16 | landley | Wherer? |
| 22:59.49 | prpplague | one sec uploading to the wiki |
| 23:00.26 | prpplague | landley: http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 23:01.16 | landley | There's nothing in the picture to give a sense of scale. |
| 23:01.28 | landley | Also, if you put "hammer" on it, people with hit things with it. Just sayin'. :) |
| 23:01.29 | Mirell | Heh |
| 23:02.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:05.49 | prpplague | landley: yea thats a solid works design |
| 23:07.04 | prpplague | landley: thats a first rev |
| 23:07.37 | prpplague | landley: we just ordered some SLA's , so the prototype boards and SLA's will be here about the same time next week |
| 23:11.21 | landley | Cool. |
| 23:11.23 | landley | What's an SLA? |
| 23:11.35 | landley | Can you re-photograph it with something for scale? |
| 23:12.32 | prpplague | Stereolithography Apparatus |
| 23:12.41 | prpplague | basically a 3D printer in plastic |
| 23:13.34 | prpplague | landley: yea, i'll see if i can get the ME to do me another rendering tomorrow, he's already gone home for the day |
| 23:14.46 | prpplague | landley: basically the SLA does repeated layers of plastic hardened by a laster or UV light |
| 23:15.01 | prpplague | landley: after so many passes it basically builds up a plastic part |
| 23:15.08 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 23:15.15 | prpplague | landley: kinda like a inject printer, but in 3D |
| 23:15.17 | *** part/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 23:16.06 | landley | Ah, candyfab... |
| 23:16.24 | prpplague | russ nelson is working on a homebrew device using the hammer to do the same thing http://www.reprap.org |
| 23:16.36 | landley | Yeah, I think they gave a talk at penguicon lost year. |
| 23:16.56 | prpplague | landley: yea its wonderful |
| 23:17.08 | prpplague | landley: you can do a concept design and get real parts in a matter of days |
| 23:17.21 | prpplague | landley: without the expensive of a injection molded tool |
| 23:18.13 | prpplague | landley:hehe you said you wanted it shiny |
| 23:18.23 | prpplague | landley: nothing shinner than gold, hehe |
| 23:19.45 | landley | I recorded last year's Penguicon panels, so it might be in http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Penguicon%22 somehwere. |
| 23:20.17 | prpplague | landley: i'll have a look |
| 23:20.34 | prpplague | landley: we just sent nelson an eval kit the other day too |
| 23:20.36 | landley | The sound quality may suck muchly, I haven't listened to them yet. |
| 23:20.43 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 23:21.01 | T0mW | anyone still playing around with a TuxScreen? |
| 23:21.03 | landley | I got five little lecture recorders that could do 12 hours on a single battery, and duct taped them to the table in each room. |
| 23:21.07 | landley | Mirell has one. |
| 23:21.26 | prpplague | T0mW: funny you should ask, i had mine out last night |
| 23:21.43 | T0mW | someone emailed me and wanted to know where they could get info about building up Linux onto one they have. |
| 23:21.57 | landley | Silver's shinier than gold. :) |
| 23:21.58 | T0mW | All that stuff is history for me. |
| 23:22.08 | prpplague | T0mW: the tuxscreen web site is still up and running |
| 23:22.13 | landley | T0mW; ask mirell. |
| 23:22.19 | T0mW | landley: k |
| 23:22.20 | prpplague | landley: hmm |
| 23:22.29 | prpplague | landley: prefer silver over gold eh? |
| 23:22.36 | landley | I got the one Eric Raymond had lying on the floor of his office, but then gave it to mirell because I never had time to play with it... |
| 23:22.49 | T0mW | he claims that a lot of the weblinks are now void. But, maybe he didn't go to the TuxScreen site... |
| 23:22.57 | landley | prpplague: cool. Who's nelson? |
| 23:23.25 | landley | prpplague: and in a strange way, black is kind of shiny. |
| 23:23.36 | prpplague | landley: nelson is one of the guys that originally did alot of the handhelds.org work on hacking linux onto commercial pdas |
| 23:23.37 | landley | Metaphorically shiny, anyway. :) |
| 23:23.42 | landley | Cool. |
| 23:23.44 | prpplague | landley: hehe indeed |
| 23:24.04 | prpplague | landley: currently he does alot of the work for nokia on their tablets |
| 23:24.39 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 23:30.38 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-210-234.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 23:31.52 | T0mW | I'll send that guy over to #elinux, prolly he can pick up info over there |
| 23:48.09 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:49.26 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:49.38 | ds2 | anyone that messed with the web pal .... do you any of you consider a modified webpal w/a ethernet card in the ISA slot and with the stock power supply to be reliable? |
| 23:50.09 | prpplague | ds2: i have about 3 stores using them has POS |
| 23:50.19 | prpplague | ds2: been that way for years |
| 23:50.56 | ds2 | prpplague: so the TO-3 7805 is not a known failure point ? |
| 23:51.06 | ds2 | wasn't sure if it can handle the power/heat |
| 23:51.44 | ds2 | and is modifying it to use a switcher a worthwhile mode to save power/reduce heat? |
| 23:51.56 | prpplague | lm7805 is 1A |
| 23:52.14 | ds2 | it does get warm |
| 23:52.28 | prpplague | indeed, the video chip does pull some current |
| 23:52.48 | prpplague | ds2: i don't believe we've had a single webpal failure |
| 23:52.56 | ds2 | nice |
| 23:53.59 | ds2 | the parallel port on it makes it very attactive.. not many current hackable devices have a readily accessible source of GPIOs |
| 23:54.03 | joe_bleau | I found that you can turn off the TV output and save quite a bit of power. |
| 23:54.26 | ds2 | *nod* think big_bird might have the patch posted on his site |
| 23:56.17 | prpplague | landley: silver is no problem on the case |
| 23:56.44 | prpplague | landley: i voted for fire engine red |
| 23:56.49 | landley | I try to stay out of aesthetic decisions. |
| 23:57.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:57.38 | prpplague | landley: well, i'll see about get another rendering tomorrow |
| 23:57.49 | ds2 | make it all hot pink to reduce thief |
| 23:58.00 | joe_bleau | prpplague: I see that there has been a recent upload on the wiki... |
| 23:58.05 | prpplague | ds2: with a hello kitty design? |
| 23:58.10 | ds2 | sure |
| 23:59.12 | landley | Mostly I just want the picture to have a penny or something for size reference. |
