| 00:00.03 | prpplague | i'll see if he has something to render with it |
| 00:00.30 | prpplague | i'm sure he has something like a virtual quarter or something |
| 00:01.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea i finally got around to uploading the default buildroot |
| 00:02.19 | joe_bleau | thanks. |
| 00:03.40 | prpplague | joe_bleau: normally for the cd we include a download directory with all the require tarballs need |
| 00:03.47 | flyback- | ds2 should be |
| 00:03.54 | flyback- | ds2 it's +5 |
| 00:04.05 | flyback- | should be able to rip out the ldo and feed a line in from a smps |
| 00:04.08 | prpplague | joe_bleau: but due to space on the wiki, that tar ball only has the buildroot, it will download packages as needed |
| 00:04.29 | flyback- | ds2 realtek ne2000 seems to be the favorite |
| 00:04.38 | flyback- | it only needs +5 |
| 00:04.47 | flyback- | also has a 8 bit mode good for use with mcu's |
| 00:04.51 | joe_bleau | Well, maybe if hammer sales pick up, tincantools can rent or borrow some server space somwhere. |
| 00:04.53 | ds2 | flyback-: yes, but problem with bucking switchers is there is a low current usage point where it is not very efficient |
| 00:05.07 | flyback- | ds2 well choose one that is :) |
| 00:05.37 | ds2 | flyback-: I got a bunch of the kingston NE2K clones from a local surplus place... everything works, I just need to button it up and add software |
| 00:05.54 | flyback- | I haven't done anything with mine yet |
| 00:06.05 | flyback- | I finally built a +5 ttl serial isa card so a pc could talk to it |
| 00:06.13 | flyback- | rather that getting a max232 cause I wasnt' sure if I could do it |
| 00:06.22 | flyback- | but it was flakey and none of my newer pc's have a isa slot :p |
| 00:06.26 | ds2 | BAH, I just built a MAX232 on a tiny board for it |
| 00:06.33 | ds2 | much easier |
| 00:06.34 | flyback- | I am going to order some |
| 00:06.42 | flyback- | futurlec has them for < $5 |
| 00:06.49 | ds2 | now these MAX3232's are getting irritating...TSSOP package :/ |
| 00:06.50 | flyback- | 2 port +5 in or 2 port +3.3 in |
| 00:06.59 | flyback- | ll ready to go on a board |
| 00:07.17 | ds2 | a generic MAX323 board? |
| 00:08.11 | flyback- | yeah hang on |
| 00:08.13 | flyback- | lemme get the link |
| 00:08.20 | flyback- | max232 and max3232 boards |
| 00:08.44 | ds2 | a max3232 PCB might be handy... |
| 00:08.55 | flyback- | http://www.futurlec.com/MiniBoards.shtml |
| 00:09.17 | flyback- | http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_SC.shtml |
| 00:09.25 | flyback- | know people here can appreciat this |
| 00:09.32 | prpplague | landley: think that case is "niffty" enough to get some attention? |
| 00:09.36 | flyback- | actually ds |
| 00:09.42 | flyback- | they are off the main elinux page |
| 00:09.48 | flyback- | who do you think I told prpplague :P |
| 00:09.58 | flyback- | http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_RS232_TTL_3V.shtml |
| 00:10.05 | flyback- | http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_RS232_TTL_5V.shtml |
| 00:10.12 | ds2 | they look big |
| 00:10.23 | ds2 | and don't have a DB-9 or RJ45 pad set |
| 00:10.24 | flyback- | yeah they are for communicating |
| 00:10.31 | flyback- | not for welding into a product |
| 00:10.31 | prpplague | flyback-: uh what? |
| 00:10.48 | ds2 | I was thinking more of a board with pads for common uses of a level converter and making a stack of htem |
| 00:10.52 | ds2 | them |
| 00:10.55 | flyback- | prpplague: the 2 futurlec serial boards on elinux's page |
| 00:10.58 | flyback- | I told you about those remeber |
| 00:11.14 | prpplague | yea, what about them? |
| 00:11.22 | flyback- | I was telling ds about them |
| 00:11.24 | flyback- | that's all :P |
| 00:11.53 | ds2 | these boards are fine for general hacking, but they could be made to be more handy esp. since it requires proper plugs for all the lines |
| 00:12.26 | flyback- | well it's only tx and rx |
| 00:12.48 | flyback- | which i guess 98% of serial lines you find on something embedded is only that anyways |
| 00:13.14 | ds2 | that's another thing I don't like... having labels like that. Rather it say TTLin1, TTLin2, TTLout1, TTLouT2, RS232in0.... |
| 00:13.41 | prpplague | ds2: try sparkfun, they have a better selection for what you are looking for |
| 00:13.54 | ds2 | if i wasn't so buried in other stuff, doing a sparkfun board run might be a good idea |
| 00:14.02 | ds2 | prpplague: ready to go? or you mean their board service? |
| 00:14.04 | flyback- | yeah sparkfun has nicerly boards |
| 00:14.14 | landley | prpplague: the case isn't what'll get attention. |
| 00:14.15 | flyback- | but futurlec is good for cheap just basic get the job done stuff |
| 00:14.24 | landley | Doesn't matter much what the case looks like... |
| 00:14.33 | ds2 | I was trying to get some of the old bgmicro GPSs running and they are stuck waiting on a proper RS-232 level converter :( |
| 00:14.33 | landley | Think about the ipod. It's not the case that wows people. |
| 00:14.39 | landley | If apple can't make a case wow people, nobody can. |
| 00:14.50 | landley | (Apple made flash videos demonstrating their UI that wowed people.) |
| 00:15.01 | ds2 | landley: make it caseless...have it printed on a shirt =) |
| 00:15.19 | prpplague | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=449 |
| 00:15.53 | flyback- | whosa |
| 00:15.54 | flyback- | prpplague: |
| 00:15.56 | flyback- | ATTENTION |
| 00:15.56 | landley | prpplague: ok, get the hammer to fit in _that_ form factor, and yes the case will wow people. :) |
| 00:15.57 | flyback- | http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_Ethernet.shtml |
| 00:16.02 | ds2 | yes, something like that... now if it would only have a RJ-45 instead ;) |
| 00:17.03 | prpplague | landley: hammer in an ipod shapped case? |
| 00:17.13 | flyback- | ah |
| 00:17.17 | flyback- | there is what I need some of |
| 00:17.18 | flyback- | http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_Logic.shtml |
| 00:17.27 | prpplague | flyback-: thats enough posted urls |
| 00:17.27 | ds2 | landley: what kind of case do you need? |
| 00:17.36 | flyback- | dude you are damn weird sometimes |
| 00:17.44 | prpplague | flyback-: and as far as the enc28j60 board, ours goes into production next week |
| 00:17.51 | flyback- | even better :) |
| 00:18.14 | flyback- | oh crap |
| 00:18.30 | flyback- | so the 245 can only do 5 to 3 or 3 to 5 in one direction |
| 00:18.39 | prpplague | landley: yea i was many refering to your comments the other nice about have it "shiny" before sending it to some of the other folks |
| 00:18.48 | flyback- | so I can't mix +5 and +3.3 lines on the same end to get them all in the same direction? |
| 00:18.54 | flyback- | well that defeats what I needed then |
| 00:19.02 | flyback- | might just have to use two 245's on anything |
| 00:19.54 | flyback- | isn't there any chip to make +3.3 and +5 talk in either direction at the same time? |
| 00:19.59 | landley | shiny in a metaphorical sense, not a literal sense. |
| 00:20.05 | landley | Think firefly/serenity "shiny". |
| 00:20.13 | flyback- | I miss that show |
| 00:20.25 | landley | (Which is an expression plenty of people around here were using _before_ that show...) |
| 00:20.30 | prpplague | indeed, i was just curious if you thought was professional enough looking |
| 00:20.43 | landley | The uses I know trace back to Cat's "you can't have my shiny thing" speech in Red Dwarf. |
| 00:20.43 | prpplague | landley: in the industrial handheld biz, we don't go for cool or shiny |
| 00:20.53 | landley | It's plenty professional looking. |
| 00:20.57 | prpplague | landley: love red dwarf |
| 00:21.11 | landley | prpplague: but geeks do. :) |
| 00:21.20 | SpeedEvil | 'bounces from a great height onto concrete, and does not mark up unacceptably' is a great plus. |
| 00:21.27 | landley | Your ideal case is to get it in the hands of 5000 geeks and have a half-dozen of them productize it. |
| 00:21.31 | prpplague | landley: indeed, thats kinda why i was looking for feedback |
| 00:21.43 | landley | Into cool things that then sell 100k units/year each. :) |
| 00:21.51 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 00:21.52 | SpeedEvil | feedback on what? |
| 00:22.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: early proto case for the nail board |
| 00:22.12 | landley | SpeedEvil: good point. |
| 00:22.20 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 00:22.28 | landley | The "drop from 5 feet onto concrete and not notice" capability is always a plus. |
| 00:22.35 | ds2 | if you need a proto case, I can probally make it |
| 00:22.42 | landley | The "survives going through the washing machine" test is also a plus, but much much much harder to achieve. |
| 00:22.48 | prpplague | ds2: its already out for SLA's |
| 00:23.00 | landley | I remember military torture test specs that were significantly _less_ rigorous than that. |
| 00:23.03 | prpplague | landley: hehe yea, it won't be IP rated |
| 00:23.04 | ds2 | prpplague: oh heh... all I can do is machine it out of billet |
| 00:23.27 | landley | (It came up when the "military hardened" guys taunted a real geek to destroy the item, thinking they couldn't.) |
| 00:23.46 | landley | Wrap in a blanket, put it in the washer, put it in the dryer, hand it back... |
| 00:23.56 | prpplague | landley: the first round of cases will be standard plastics, but we can always switch to a glass filled plastic which is pretty darn unbreakable |
| 00:24.28 | landley | You've got water, agitation, solvents, thermal shock, electrostatic discharge, and in the dryer a repeated 18 inch drop onto metal. |
| 00:24.49 | landley | prpplague: reduces hackability. |
| 00:24.58 | prpplague | landley: we have a large commercial dryer we use to test our handhelds |
| 00:25.12 | prpplague | landley: what does? |
| 00:25.22 | landley | The people who _do_ like fiddling with the hardware will want to crack the case. "Do not run through washer/dryer" is ok. |
| 00:25.30 | landley | Sealing the case and filling it with glass? |
| 00:25.31 | ds2 | prpplague: do you guys make a hand held that can be run over with an 18wheeler and still work? |
| 00:26.05 | SpeedEvil | landley: no you don't. |
| 00:26.13 | SpeedEvil | landley: you need to dry-clean it for proper solvents. |
| 00:26.45 | prpplague | landley: hehe, sorry misunderstanding, the plastic is mixed with glass fiber before injection molding |
| 00:26.54 | prpplague | landley: makes the plastic extremely durable |
| 00:27.14 | prpplague | landley: same case, just slightly different material |
| 00:27.21 | prpplague | ds2: uh no |
| 00:27.24 | SpeedEvil | both by making it stronger, and stitching cracks together with fibers |
| 00:28.19 | ds2 | seem to recall some of the PC guys have claims along that line |
| 00:28.50 | landley | SpeedEvil: heated laundry detergent and agitation apparently got through whatever seal the military guys were using. |
| 00:29.01 | landley | Of course this was something like 10-15 years ago... |
| 00:29.28 | landley | prpplague: cool. How much does it add to the cost? |
| 00:29.31 | SpeedEvil | heat+water is nasty |
| 00:29.54 | SpeedEvil | the heat can apply pressure to your case seals from the inside. |
| 00:30.00 | prpplague | landley: on average it adds about 20% to the cost |
| 00:30.02 | SpeedEvil | (due to expansion of fill gas) |
| 00:30.08 | landley | Of just the plastic, or the whole device? |
| 00:30.14 | prpplague | just the plastic |
| 00:30.20 | landley | Might be worth it then. |
| 00:30.25 | landley | I leave that up to you. That's hardware. :) |
| 00:30.25 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 00:30.48 | prpplague | landley: hehe, yea, the thing is that the plastic guys generally like to do a run of 500 or more for the glass fiber |
| 00:31.08 | prpplague | landley: so the first run will be standard plastic since it will be 100 units |
| 00:34.03 | prpplague | landley: so far we are looking at something like $1.28 for each part |
| 00:34.36 | prpplague | landley: so with glass filled you are looking at around $1.56 |
| 00:35.37 | landley | Ballpark figures, what volume do you need to price the final product under $200, and what volume to price under $100? |
| 00:36.11 | landley | P.S. Putting "hammer" on the case is still going to give people an enormous urge to try to hit things with it repeatedly. |
| 00:36.51 | prpplague | landley: ya think? seriously? |
| 00:37.14 | prpplague | landley: 1k for under $200, probably 5k for under $100 |
| 00:38.01 | landley | You're doing an initial run of 100 units, and the samples you give away presumably come from this run? |
| 00:38.29 | prpplague | yea |
| 00:39.11 | landley | Pondering. |
| 00:39.54 | prpplague | landley: whatcha thinking? |
| 00:40.13 | landley | Can it be ready by http://linuxplumbersconf.org/ and about how many could you afford to give away there? |
| 00:40.56 | landley | You'd also want to give away a few samples at OLS, probably. |
| 00:41.04 | landley | To get a unit volume of 5000, you'll need some advertising. |
| 00:41.12 | landley | Best advertising in the linux community is word of mouth. |
| 00:41.29 | prpplague | landley: ha september? |
| 00:41.33 | landley | Yup. |
| 00:41.50 | landley | OLS is earlier than that, of course. |
| 00:41.54 | prpplague | landley: we'll have the first runs at the end of the month |
| 00:41.59 | landley | Cool. |
| 00:42.24 | landley | OLS is in july... |
| 00:42.30 | landley | Linuxworld expo doesn't count anymore. |
| 00:42.31 | ds2 | what about the CEDev thing in April? |
| 00:42.44 | landley | Oh yeah, CELF. |
| 00:43.02 | landley | CELF would be great. |
| 00:43.04 | prpplague | i'll have to talk to boss, what kind of numbers are you talking about for each show? |
| 00:43.16 | landley | It doesn't really have much overlap with things like OLS, it's more japaneese businessmen the time I was there. |
| 00:43.24 | flyback- | ead |
| 00:43.27 | landley | Still, just _one_ of them might order 5000 of those suckers. :) |
| 00:43.28 | ds2 | btw, think people at CELF would be interested in a talk basics of bluetooth ? |
| 00:43.38 | landley | For CELF? Maybe a dozen. |
| 00:43.59 | landley | For OLS, what the blackfin guys did is they gave a tutorial and gave a free board to everybody who signed up for the tutorial. (They did about 30.) |
| 00:44.21 | landley | I still have my blackfin board. It's the only reason I've paid any attention to blackfin, since the gcc support for it wasn't properly merged yet... |
| 00:44.32 | landley | And qemu doesn't do blackfin. |
| 00:44.47 | landley | ds2: probably some of 'em, sure. |
| 00:44.49 | ds2 | free boards at the shows make a good impression on people |
| 00:44.56 | prpplague | landley: yea, i'll go ahead and talk to the boss about it |
| 00:45.06 | prpplague | landley: put it in the mix |
| 00:45.08 | landley | It doesn't even need to be _many_ boards, if you don't have enough to go around raffle 'em off. |
| 00:45.24 | landley | IBM got rather a lot of excitement by giving away about five PS3's, via raffle. |
| 00:45.36 | ds2 | still have a warm spot for ADI cuz of their miniboards |
| 00:45.39 | SpeedEvil | do you have a picture of the proposed case? |
| 00:46.01 | landley | I don't know if I'll be at CELF yet or not. |
| 00:46.06 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.111.182) |
| 00:46.07 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe the url i pointed you to 3 times so far, hehe |
| 00:46.07 | SpeedEvil | Also - impulse buy might be nice to do after the raffle. |
| 00:46.13 | landley | It ends the day before penguicon starts, I'd have to fly stragiht from one to the other. |
| 00:46.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 00:46.24 | SpeedEvil | ah - right |
| 00:46.25 | SpeedEvil | sorry |
| 00:46.34 | SpeedEvil | I have the IRC window over the edge of my browser |
| 00:46.37 | landley | Another point is that if they're actually for _sale_, have the details available when you're giving away the boards. |
| 00:46.39 | prpplague | landley: you going to both? |
| 00:46.39 | SpeedEvil | and it hig the scrollbar |
| 00:46.43 | landley | You can mail-order them online at this site. |
| 00:46.45 | ds2 | landley: do you think CELF is a good show to try giving a presentation at? (never done it before, figure I'd do it at least once) |
| 00:46.57 | landley | prpplague: I'm definitely going to penguicon. I co-founded the thing. Never missed one yet. |
| 00:47.05 | prpplague | landley: i figured as much |
| 00:47.10 | landley | The only time I've been to CELF was when they flew me in to give a talk about busybox. |
| 00:47.11 | SpeedEvil | If they were raffled, It'd be really nice to be able to actually sell the things there. |
| 00:47.22 | landley | I'm not maintainer anymore, I doubt they'd fly me in these days. |
| 00:47.29 | landley | No longer important. |
| 00:47.33 | SpeedEvil | 'if you diddn't win, then you can take one away with you today for only...' |
| 00:48.06 | SpeedEvil | You know what that case is beging for. |
| 00:48.15 | prpplague | i didn't think the conferences allow that kind of stuff |
| 00:48.18 | SpeedEvil | A nice ash handle coming out the side. |
| 00:48.21 | landley | prpplague: oh, another dirty trick you can do? Give volume discounts, and also give a discount to show attendees. |
| 00:48.36 | prpplague | landley: yea we already do volume discounts |
| 00:49.00 | landley | "1 hammer, $189, 10 $169, 100 $139, 1000 $119, 5000 $89..." |
| 00:49.07 | landley | Let them know the volume discounts. |
| 00:49.18 | landley | Nobody holds them against you, we know what the cost structure's like in this industry. |
| 00:49.35 | landley | If they order more than you have on hand... such problems we should have. :) |
| 00:50.13 | prpplague | landley: yea, we do $159 for one, 10 is $143, and 100 is $127 |
| 00:50.29 | landley | Go all the way up to 5000 if your costs keep going down. |
| 00:50.37 | landley | Even if most people won't order that, it plants the idea. |
| 00:50.56 | SpeedEvil | If you get an order for 3K, can you do anything with it? |
| 00:51.00 | landley | I learned that from Nancy Lebowitz the button lady. |
| 00:51.11 | SpeedEvil | (/me isn't doing that yet) |
| 00:51.34 | landley | prpplague: in general, if you plan to sell lots you're more likely to sell lots. |
| 00:51.36 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea we are setup to do up to 20k |
| 00:51.41 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:52.00 | landley | prpplague: give a quote for 20k units on your flyer then. |
| 00:52.06 | landley | If nobody orders it, no loss. |
| 00:52.12 | landley | If somebody does order it, life is good. |
| 00:52.16 | prpplague | indeed |
| 00:52.45 | SpeedEvil | Annoying in a way - I have ideas for the hammer which could be viable at $20-40. |
| 00:52.49 | landley | But I gotta go pick up my wife from the university area. |
| 00:53.02 | prpplague | landley: alrighty |
| 00:53.03 | SpeedEvil | They are mainly in the 'yes you can code it with a large pic or something' range |
| 00:53.06 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=stuartl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:53.08 | prpplague | landley: thanks for the feedback |
| 00:53.13 | prpplague | landley: tell fade hello |
| 00:53.14 | landley | It sounds like getting the hammer down to $40 would require a unit volume of something like 500k. :) |
| 00:53.19 | SpeedEvil | but there is absolutely no way it can be made for that. |
| 00:53.25 | prpplague | landley: i can hear it now "who the hell is prpplague" |
| 00:53.34 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 00:53.35 | landley | David Anders. |
| 00:53.50 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 00:54.06 | landley | Hmmm... I'm wondering if there's any way to build momentum in sales. |
| 00:54.10 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the only way the hammer could be at $40 would be if we do CoB |
| 00:54.16 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 00:54.36 | prpplague | landley: yea, we are starting by trying to get some cool project going and some word of mouth |
| 00:54.38 | landley | For example, if you get an order for 3k, manufacture 5k at the lower cost, and offer a lower entry point on the rest... |
| 00:54.44 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 00:54.48 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=stuartl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) |
| 00:54.50 | prpplague | landley: thats kinda where we are going |
| 00:54.59 | landley | We'll work something out. |
| 00:55.00 | prpplague | landley: we have 5 or 6 oem deals in the works |
| 00:55.10 | landley | for hammer? |
| 00:55.33 | prpplague | yea |
| 00:55.41 | SpeedEvil | How much does hammer-like-stuff that uses all the hammer bits but a different PCB help the costs? |
| 00:55.42 | prpplague | landley: for industrial apps |
| 00:55.42 | landley | Cool. |
| 00:55.53 | SpeedEvil | (of the hammer) |
| 00:55.58 | landley | PCB is the board hammer's mounted in? |
| 00:56.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: sorry did not understand that question |
| 00:56.16 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning a different hammer - say bringing out more LCD pins |
| 00:56.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i.e. the sledge hammer? |
| 00:56.30 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:56.37 | SpeedEvil | if someo0ne ordered a variant, does that help with the base models costs. |
| 00:56.44 | prpplague | no |
| 00:56.53 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: per board costs |
| 00:56.57 | landley | Ah. |
| 00:57.12 | SpeedEvil | I know about PCB costs, I wasn't sure on the breakdown of PCB/component costs vs volume. |
| 00:57.24 | prpplague | yea you also have to consider assembly |
| 00:57.25 | landley | Generally running off lots and lots of copies of the exact same design makes it cheap. |
| 00:57.47 | landley | The guy with the crayons charges by the hour, but the xerox machine runs off of old cheese and scraps. |
| 00:57.53 | prpplague | yea the assembly cost drop in similiar proportion as the parts costs |
| 00:58.21 | SpeedEvil | Currently trying to work out how I can do small-run production of the UAV. |
| 00:58.54 | landley | SpeedEvil: hope the nail sells 5k units and everybody can get the discount? |
| 00:59.00 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:59.18 | prpplague | landley: i'll get with the boss on the conferences |
| 00:59.20 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if I can use the hammer at 150K and make a profit. |
| 00:59.23 | SpeedEvil | 150$ |
| 00:59.29 | SpeedEvil | or rather - make sales |
| 00:59.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: how many do you need? |
| 00:59.57 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Have you tried BatchPCB? |
| 01:00.00 | SpeedEvil | I honestly have no idea: to clarify. |
| 01:00.27 | SpeedEvil | The component cost of the first version (without CPU, presumably hammer) looks like being on the order of 150 - $300. |
| 01:00.34 | SpeedEvil | 150 pounds |
| 01:00.42 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: 10 drops the price to $143 and 100 to $127 |
| 01:00.46 | SpeedEvil | maybe 200 including all the structure and stuff |
| 01:01.34 | SpeedEvil | I'd want to sell it for at least 350 probably - $700 in an initial run. |
| 01:01.52 | landley | sorry, phone... |
| 01:01.55 | prpplague | landley: np |
| 01:01.58 | SpeedEvil | but I'm probably not going to be selling this version, as it's over-sensored. |
| 01:02.11 | SpeedEvil | and I'm mainly using it to work out what subset is really needed. |
| 01:02.43 | SpeedEvil | I'm actually considering selling ariel mapping service rather than UAVs at least initially. |
| 01:02.50 | SpeedEvil | well - not mapping |
| 01:02.53 | SpeedEvil | but pictures |
| 01:03.07 | SpeedEvil | As I need to test anyway. |
| 01:04.14 | SpeedEvil | The hammer cost problem is simply that it adds some $200 to my end-user price. Then again, it subtracts costs for dev. |
| 01:04.57 | SpeedEvil | And I don't know how elastic the market is to price. |
| 01:05.24 | SpeedEvil | I suspect that at that level - 350 vs 450 pounds won't make a great difference. |
| 01:06.31 | landley | prpplague: another thing you can do is take preorders. |
| 01:06.56 | landley | "If we can get enough users to produce the product at price $X, here's a firm order for Y units". |
| 01:07.12 | landley | Sort of bidding for the device, as it were. :) |
| 01:07.14 | SpeedEvil | 'before z date' |
| 01:07.18 | landley | yes. |
| 01:07.30 | prpplague | landley: uhhh yea, i don't think so, both my boss and i have a problem with pre-orders |
| 01:07.53 | SpeedEvil | I've had good results with pre-orders for the couple of times I've don eit. |
| 01:08.02 | landley | There is always the "when to collect the money" problem, which has no good answer. |
| 01:08.13 | SpeedEvil | remarkably small drop-out rate. But it may be worse now. |
| 01:08.16 | SpeedEvil | landley: before you ship |
| 01:08.21 | landley | I know people who have had it totally blow up in their face. |
| 01:08.35 | landley | Admittedly in two different areas (game publishing and t-shirts). |
| 01:09.05 | SpeedEvil | It really blows up if you order the batch of foo, they come back wrong, and you've just spent the customers money on them. |
| 01:09.33 | landley | It blows up for other reasons. Let's just not go there. |
| 01:09.41 | prpplague | yea, both of us had the idea of vaporware so we don't go forward with things untill its a true product |
| 01:09.47 | prpplague | s/had/hate |
| 01:09.47 | landley | I understand the reluctance to do it. Steve Jackson Games doesn't do preorders any more for similar reasons. |
| 01:10.13 | landley | Oh I wasn't thinking of taking preorders before you had samples to ship out. |
| 01:10.31 | prpplague | oh you mean after we have an initial run? |
| 01:10.37 | landley | I was thinking of preorders solely as a "you can order it today, but if we can get the volume to bring the price into your range". |
| 01:10.46 | prpplague | no need for that we can do 20k in less than 2 weeks if we needed ot |
| 01:11.12 | landley | I was thinking more along the lines of "the price may drop in 6 months, but it drops faster the more volume we get". |
| 01:11.20 | prpplague | landley: ahh i get it |
| 01:11.20 | RobotGuy | I could spend 20K in less than two weeks. :D |
| 01:11.35 | landley | "So if you wanted to order 20 units at $x price"... |
| 01:11.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe no $$ , units |
| 01:11.45 | landley | The problem is, if you take their money now there's the possibility of having to give it back. |
| 01:11.48 | RobotGuy | Oh, durn. |
| 01:12.02 | landley | If you don't take their money now there's an accounts receivable nightmare trying to get it later. |
| 01:12.37 | landley | My general approach to this would be to decide it's going to sell 5k and then _make_it_happen_. |
| 01:12.40 | landley | But I'm crazy in places. |
| 01:12.46 | landley | And late for picking up my wife from UT. |
| 01:12.50 | landley | Back online from home... |
| 01:13.25 | joe_bleau | How about having an entry form and giving away one dev kit/month from the website? |
| 01:13.45 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea, we've actually be doing that already, 2 a month |
| 01:13.53 | prpplague | joe_bleau: just not publically |
| 01:14.27 | joe_bleau | How's it going to generate traffic unless it's public? |
| 01:14.53 | joe_bleau | Hey, how 'bout an online seminar or youtube video--"Intro to the hammer" |
| 01:15.10 | RobotGuy | Yeah, get MC Hammer to do it.. :D |
| 01:16.46 | joe_bleau | Have one setup for remote logins, maybe with a toolchain on board? |
| 01:16.57 | joe_bleau | People could connect and play around with actual hardware, remotely. |
| 01:17.12 | SpeedEvil | Connect a couple of RC servos to the PWM outs |
| 01:17.17 | joe_bleau | (Kinda like the remote test drives that you see so many of these days.) |
| 01:18.05 | RobotGuy | After I learn Hammmer and get it on W.A.L.T.E.R. I plan to add WiFi. |
| 01:18.26 | ds2 | why not have a rebate program for the first N number of purchasers? |
| 01:18.56 | RobotGuy | I hate rebates |
| 01:19.59 | RobotGuy | Companies take forever to pay back on rebates, and of course you have to pay full price up front. |
| 01:21.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau: its not intended to generate traffic at this stage |
| 01:21.51 | prpplague | joe_bleau: we just want some in the hands of people doing dev and docs |
| 01:22.02 | prpplague | joe_bleau: it will go public in april |
| 01:23.07 | RobotGuy | So Hammer is not really being advertised yet? |
| 01:26.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it is being advertised, just not the 2 free eval kits a month program |
| 01:30.10 | RobotGuy | Ah, OK |
| 01:30.25 | RobotGuy | My friend is jealous I am getting a kit. |
| 01:30.26 | prpplague | hehe i got a 10lb ham for $9 at the grocery store |
| 01:30.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe |
| 01:32.20 | ds2 | left over ham from thanksgiving? ;) |
| 01:32.52 | RobotGuy | I want to have the first Hammer controlled robot. ;) |
| 01:33.52 | RobotGuy | I went and got the sockets and hookup wire I need to start prototyping with Hammer. |
| 01:34.46 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:34.57 | RobotGuy | I'll be all ready to add the two dsPICs to the carrier board, along with my bluetooth module. |
| 01:34.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: jonhylands has a head start on you |
| 01:35.22 | RobotGuy | Yeah, I know. He got his kit before me. |
| 01:35.52 | RobotGuy | I will be waiting to ambush the UPS guy tomorrow. ;) |
| 01:36.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:38.21 | prpplague | hehe its in spokane,wa |
| 01:39.22 | RobotGuy | It should be in Portland by tonight. |
| 01:40.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: as far as wifi on the hammer, just add a usb wifi dongle |
| 01:40.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you're all set |
| 01:40.37 | RobotGuy | I could certainly do that. |
| 01:41.13 | RobotGuy | I have been wanting an easy to use Linux platform for robotics for so long! |
| 01:41.55 | RobotGuy | I still may use one of the Virtual COGs at some point, because I really like the stackability of everything. |
| 01:42.08 | RobotGuy | I really like the Freescale i.MX chips too. |
| 01:48.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Could you remove the linuxguy account on the forums, Wiki, and main tin can tools site please? I just transformed into robotgy for those. |
| 01:48.32 | RobotGuy | Now I can remember who I am for all Tin Can Tools stuff. :) |
| 01:49.13 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:49.29 | prpplague | yea, i'll do it this week sometime |
| 01:49.41 | RobotGuy | OK, great. |
| 01:59.17 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:59.29 | RobotGuy | Ahhhhh, that's better, LINUX. |
| 02:07.40 | cajaka | Have any of you heard of phidgets: http://www.phidgets.com |
| 02:07.56 | RobotGuy | I have heard of them |
| 02:08.17 | RobotGuy | I even looked at them as something I might want to use at some point. |
| 02:08.37 | RobotGuy | I think the cost per sensor is too high though, at least for me. |
| 02:09.35 | cajaka | Yeah they are a bit expensive |
| 02:11.02 | prpplague | interesting stuff |
| 02:11.11 | RobotGuy | Oh, they are definitely interesting. |
| 02:12.17 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 02:12.43 | RobotGuy | I just couldn't justify spending the money on Phidgets. |
| 02:15.03 | prpplague | indeed pretty pricy |
| 02:15.07 | cajaka | I found cheaper stuff but they only have windows drivers. |
| 02:16.01 | RobotGuy | The one thing that makes me still want to tinker with Phidgets is they do have Linux drivers and such for everything. I'd like to support companies like that. |
| 02:16.14 | RobotGuy | Phidgets are cool too. :) |
| 02:17.28 | cajaka | There is this though http://www.pololu.com/products/pololu/0390/ 16 servo control its just a usb to uart chip |
| 02:17.42 | cajaka | On a serial servo controller |
| 02:18.20 | RobotGuy | The Lynxmotion SSC-32 is only $39.95 for 32 servo control. |
| 02:18.45 | RobotGuy | I have two of them. |
| 02:21.48 | cajaka | hmm |
| 02:22.49 | RobotGuy | The firmware was just updated for an Atmega168 and is close to release. |
| 02:24.42 | prpplague | funny, i grew up never meeting anyone with the same last name, and in the last week, i've seen my first and last name in the news two different times, hehe |
| 02:24.59 | RobotGuy | You get around! :) |
| 02:25.15 | prpplague | hehe indeed |
| 02:25.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not only am i a Lt Col in afghan, i'm also an evil character or heroes |
| 02:26.13 | prpplague | "The radio station gives the government a way to promote itself and its programs to the local people, the majority of whom don't read and don't have access to televisions, said U.S. Army Lt. Col. David Anders, Commander,1st Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment." |
| 02:27.07 | RobotGuy | Oh my! I just play Dwarves and Gnomes, and one Night Elf in World of Warcraft. |
| 02:28.31 | prpplague | interesting, looks like the David Anders on heroes is using a changed name |
| 02:29.10 | RobotGuy | Did you get short changed on the last name? Could have been Anderson.. ;) |
| 02:29.31 | RobotGuy | Then you could claim to be Neo. |
| 02:29.41 | Mirell | Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. |
| 02:29.44 | RobotGuy | Mr. Anderson. Hee hee |
| 02:29.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, no, anderson got marked as always being the younger son, hehe |
| 02:30.28 | prpplague | ahh , David Anders of heroes, his name was originally David Anders Holt |
| 02:30.34 | RobotGuy | If you were me and just got a Hammer Kit (tomorrow), what is the very fist thing you would do? |
| 02:30.35 | prpplague | he droped his last name |
| 02:30.48 | Mirell | RobotGuy: Say "Stop" |
| 02:30.59 | Mirell | Then say, "Hammer Time. Doo Dee Dee Doo" |
| 02:31.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: plug in the flyswatter, make sure its working, and then bring up the board using the flyswatter to connect the console port |
| 02:31.08 | RobotGuy | After removing everything very carefully from the box. |
| 02:31.13 | Mirell | Oh. |
| 02:31.31 | Mirell | That's not as fun. |
| 02:31.44 | RobotGuy | That's what I have in mind to do first thing. Make sure everything works. I was actually meaning after all the pretest was done. |
| 02:31.46 | Mirell | I mean, yah, I'd do that stuff to. |
| 02:31.55 | Mirell | But first thing? MC Hammer. |
| 02:32.00 | prpplague | "David took the stage name of David Anders because there is already an actor named David Holt. He made the decision to go by his middle name, Anders." |
| 02:32.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: probably the next thing is get your build environment up and running |
| 02:32.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so you can compile apps and custom kernels |
| 02:32.45 | RobotGuy | That is definitely the next thing after pretest. |
| 02:33.10 | Mirell | prpplague: You mentioned your job is in embedded Linux transaction somethings? |
| 02:33.59 | prpplague | Mirell: industrial handhelds |
| 02:34.12 | RobotGuy | Then I can start connecting things to Hammer! ;) Like dsPICs, Bluetooth, SSC-32, etc. |
| 02:34.28 | prpplague | wow i do get around "Following in the footsteps of many before him, Assistant U.S. Attorney David Anders from the Southern District of New York will be leaving that office at the end of the year to join Wachtell, Lipton in its white collar crime group. " |
| 02:34.46 | RobotGuy | I bought several colors of #22 stranded hookup wire today, in many nice colors. |
| 02:34.53 | Mirell | prpplague: Ahh. Thought it might have been like Tranz330 like devices. |
| 02:35.24 | prpplague | Mirell: naw, mostly barcoding and such |
| 02:35.32 | prpplague | Mirell: stuff like price checker kiosks |
| 02:35.37 | prpplague | Mirell: inventory handhelds |
| 02:35.41 | prpplague | Mirell: line busters |
| 02:35.47 | Mirell | Ahhh, okay. |
| 02:35.54 | prpplague | http://www.amltd.com |
| 02:36.13 | prpplague | Mirell: i have done some work with ingenico process terminals though |
| 02:36.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: One thought for the bot board (of many) - use strong terminal strips for the battery connections, not like what is used on the SSC-32 and Mini-ABB. More like what is used on the Sabertooth 2x5 motor controllers. |
| 02:36.25 | prpplague | Mirell: did you have a question or something? |
| 02:36.47 | Mirell | prpplague: Oh, no, I was just curious as if any work had been done on embedded Linux CC terminals and their ilk. |
| 02:36.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll make a note |
| 02:37.16 | Mirell | Weird interest of mine. |
| 02:37.49 | prpplague | Mirell: indeed there are several that linux based that are certified |
| 02:38.04 | prpplague | Mirell: most run a single thread rtos |
| 02:38.32 | RobotGuy | That's the one thing I really dislike about the Mini-ABB and SSC-32, those flimsy terminal blocks for power connections. |
| 02:38.59 | prpplague | Mirell: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8697238014.html |
| 02:39.49 | Mirell | Ohhh, spiffy. |
| 02:39.58 | RobotGuy | I've got FreeRTOS and and uIP running on my ARM7 board. |
| 02:40.08 | prpplague | Mirell: problem with hacking those with linux is most of the off the shelf ones include physical deterents |
| 02:40.24 | Mirell | Yah.. |
| 02:40.31 | SpeedEvil | and that's not likely to get better. |
| 02:40.35 | prpplague | Mirell: open the case and it basically smokes the device |
| 02:40.53 | Mirell | Which is stupid, since the Tranz330 has TCL, you can open it up, copy off the ROM, all sorts of stuff. |
| 02:41.00 | RobotGuy | That's just not hacker friendly at all. |
| 02:41.10 | Mirell | And CC vendors have to support the lowest-common denominator of device. |
| 02:41.11 | Mirell | Yah. |
| 02:41.21 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 02:41.24 | prpplague | Mirell: indeed |
| 02:41.37 | prpplague | Mirell: the ingenico devices are pretty secure |
| 02:42.08 | prpplague | Mirell: i had to destroy 4 before i figured out how to cut it open with a dremel without activating the failsafe |
| 02:42.10 | landley | How goes upness? |
| 02:42.13 | Mirell | Slightly unrelated, end of my LJ entry for today: |
| 02:42.22 | Mirell | End of Day 2. |
| 02:42.22 | Mirell | Accomplishment: I got the little center-piece that you stick in the tape to go in a tape holder, so mine is fully functional now! |
| 02:42.25 | Mirell | Goal for Day 3: Get stapler. |
| 02:42.38 | prpplague | preferably red |
| 02:42.59 | Mirell | I have been tempted to order a red Swingline, but someoone might steal it |
| 02:43.03 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:43.08 | agaffney | Mirell: I've got one :P |
| 02:43.22 | landley | Mirell: they have them on thinkgeek. |
| 02:43.22 | agaffney | ~$20 on thinkgeek ~2 years ago :P |
| 02:43.29 | Mirell | landley: Yah, I know. |
| 02:43.32 | prpplague | Mirell: did you see the nail case rendering? |
| 02:43.34 | landley | You destroyed 4 of what before you figured out how to open them? |
| 02:43.36 | Mirell | prpplague: Yah. |
| 02:43.51 | Mirell | prpplague: Last I recall, didn't have any scale, then I escaped from the office. |
| 02:43.52 | prpplague | landley: hehe the ingenico transaction terminals |
| 02:43.58 | landley | It's sometimes amusing to compare mindsets. |
| 02:44.02 | prpplague | Mirell: yea the ME guy had already left |
| 02:44.29 | prpplague | landley: they have a failsafe that smokes the device |
| 02:44.36 | landley | I've been watching prpplague act about a case design the way I acted when I got qemu to work. |
| 02:44.56 | landley | (This hardware doesn't even exist, and it's _running_my_software_.) |
| 02:45.07 | landley | I felt so proud of geekdom in general that day... |
| 02:45.15 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:45.23 | prpplague | i'm a feedback freak |
| 02:45.26 | landley | I'd expect credit card readers to have something, yeah. |
| 02:45.44 | Mirell | landley: The Tranz330s didn't. |
| 02:45.53 | landley | It's a bit like those fake ATMs people set up which claimed to be broken but recorded your card info and pin number. |
| 02:46.08 | Mirell | You get a Torx, unscrew four screws, you can take out the EEPROM or whatnot, reflash the sucker, stick it back. |
| 02:46.09 | landley | In general, something you want to avoid. |
| 02:46.29 | Mirell | landley: And even still, most Verifone card readers *STILL* have the same default password. |
| 02:46.40 | Mirell | The password's like 15 years old, still used. |
| 02:46.59 | Mirell | So you can reprogram the number it dials, or merchant account used, or whatever. |
| 02:47.29 | Mirell | So making the device self-destruct is just annoying. |
| 02:47.57 | Mirell | Now, PIN pads, that's okay., |
| 02:48.15 | landley | And if we do another convention here in Austin, I'll probably draft him into doing it again. :) |
| 02:48.16 | Mirell | The terminal itself, kind of silly. |
| 02:48.27 | prpplague | Mirell: i guess you hobby is those terminals, mine is hacking kids toys |
| 02:48.44 | landley | Mirell has many hobbies. |
| 02:48.45 | Mirell | prpplague: Well, and my current job is managing the EBT systems for 15 states. |
| 02:48.47 | RobotGuy | landley: Does the DPRG have a public forum? |
| 02:48.52 | landley | dprg? |
| 02:49.05 | RobotGuy | Dallas Personal Robotics Group. |
| 02:49.05 | prpplague | dallas personal robotics group |
| 02:49.15 | landley | I'm in Austin. |
| 02:49.20 | prpplague | no just a mailing list |
| 02:49.22 | landley | 4 hours south. |
| 02:49.24 | Mirell | 3. |
| 02:49.29 | landley | The way you drive, yeah. |
| 02:49.34 | RobotGuy | is it a Yahoo group by chance? |
| 02:49.37 | Mirell | No, the speed limit. |
| 02:49.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i don;t recall |
| 02:49.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: dprg.org |
| 02:49.59 | Mirell | landley: Dallas is around 420ish, we're 240s, that's 180, 180/60=3 |
| 02:50.18 | RobotGuy | I got my inspiration for the current version of firmware in W.A.L.T.E.R. from DPRG works. |
| 02:50.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh i'm gonna make a visit to their next meeting |
| 02:51.17 | prpplague | Mirell: 15 states? interesting |
| 02:51.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Cool! |
| 02:52.17 | RobotGuy | I just can't do any more development on the firmware due to lack of program memory. |
| 02:53.02 | landley | RobotGuy: how much memory does your device have? |
| 02:53.11 | RobotGuy | That will certainly change with Hammer though. |
| 02:53.17 | Mirell | prpplague: And you'd be freaked out if you knew how poorly maintained security and redundancy wise the systems are...*shudder* |
| 02:53.22 | RobotGuy | landley: Only 13K |
| 02:53.51 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe, i wouldn't be shocked, i've seen too many installations that do CC handling |
| 02:54.40 | Mirell | Makes me want to keep all my cash under my mattress. |
| 02:55.14 | Mirell | Although we do have the benefit of, the people we could get the SSNs and addresses and everything from, |
| 02:55.19 | Mirell | Have absolutely no money. |
| 02:55.49 | Mirell | So less incentive. |
| 02:56.57 | landley | Robotguy: ok, yeah, that's small. |
| 02:57.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Will the bot board have dual battery supplies available, like for electronics, sensors, and another for stuff like servos? |
| 02:57.32 | landley | Mirell: this is why credit cards have let you contest charges and debit cards limit liability from fraud to $50. |
| 02:58.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: haven't gotten that far in the design |
| 02:58.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but i'll make a note to eval that |
| 02:58.26 | RobotGuy | Ideally, the bot board should also have an easy way to daisy chain power connections to other electronic assemblies. |
| 02:58.41 | RobotGuy | Excellent. |
| 03:00.35 | prpplague | Mirell: back when i was in barbados, i found several stores that xmitted cc transactions over wifi in clear text(via a telnet connection) to the server |
| 03:01.02 | Mirell | Yah.... |
| 03:04.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: If you look at the design of Lynxmotion's Mini Atom Bot Board, it's basically a very good design. I just don't think the choices for connectors were good. |
| 03:05.07 | RobotGuy | It just needs no pushbuttons, no user LEDs, and room for a Hammer. :) |
| 03:05.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea the bot board is kinda on the back burner untill we get the nail out |
| 03:06.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we'll be collecting feedback from you and jon for the next round of dev |
| 03:06.14 | *** join/#edev chouimat|Zzzz (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 03:06.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I will convert my carrier board to a bot board. :) |
| 03:06.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want to help you make the best bot board possible for the Hammer. |
| 03:07.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: indeed, i kinda wanted to see what you did with the carrier board first |
| 03:08.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am going to have fun with the carrier board. |
| 03:11.59 | flyback- | chocking from coughing so hard |
| 03:13.49 | RobotGuy | I already have most of what I need to add the two dsPICs and Bluetooth DIL to the carrier board. |
| 03:14.59 | RobotGuy | I forgot to make a list of what I need to convert the carrier board for dual power supplies (battery and AC) though. |
| 03:15.18 | RobotGuy | Well, wallwart, not direct AC |
| 03:16.50 | prpplague | shouldn't need anything other than a lm7805 |
| 03:17.15 | RobotGuy | That's what I forgot to get today. |
| 03:17.37 | prpplague | what? everyone should have a box of 20 or 30 lm7805's!!! |
| 03:17.54 | prpplague | i'm sure landley and Mirell have a whole box of them |
| 03:18.44 | Mirell | Uhh... |
| 03:18.52 | Mirell | prpplague: landley are not a hardware guy. |
| 03:18.54 | RobotGuy | Don't worry, W.A.L.T.E.R. doesn't have a gripper yet. |
| 03:19.03 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe, thats was a joke, hehe |
| 03:19.17 | Mirell | Yah, I know. |
| 03:19.25 | Mirell | I don't even have any on me. |
| 03:19.32 | Mirell | However, Fry's is right down the street. |
| 03:19.52 | prpplague | hehe, doubt fry's has them |
| 03:19.56 | prpplague | the rat shack might |
| 03:20.34 | RobotGuy | I have a different electronics shop I frequent. |
| 03:21.29 | Mirell | prpplague: Fry's probably would, they have a decent selection of components. |
| 03:21.38 | Mirell | Otherwise, the monolithic MOUSER catalog |
| 03:21.49 | Mirell | Which one could build a nuclear power plant from all that crap. |
| 03:21.49 | prpplague | Mirell: really? |
| 03:21.53 | Mirell | prpplague: Oh yah. |
| 03:22.05 | Mirell | Capacitors, resistors, LEDs, what have you. |
| 03:22.15 | Mirell | Much better selection than Radio Shack |
| 03:22.28 | prpplague | Mirell: yea i don't visit rat shack |
| 03:22.31 | prpplague | Mirell: not in years |
| 03:22.45 | Mirell | Nor have I, since most of the stores don't even sell that stuff anymore. |
| 03:22.46 | RobotGuy | I have to admit I did buy a RoboQuad from RS. |
| 03:22.50 | Mirell | So it's basically, "What's the point?" |
| 03:23.17 | prpplague | Mirell: yea and the sales people are completely worthless |
| 03:23.29 | RobotGuy | I love Fry's but I don't have any way to get there. |
| 03:24.49 | cajaka | All you need to know to work at an RS is how to Text on a cell phone |
| 03:25.04 | RobotGuy | No mass transit goes to our local Fry's yet, but hopefully that will change when the new MAX light rail line is finished. |
| 03:25.10 | Mirell | cajaka: That's manager-level |
| 03:25.46 | cajaka | Nah the managers never leave there the same ones from the 80s from what I have seen |
| 03:26.27 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:26.36 | RobotGuy | Well, gang, I need to go get some food. I'll be back later or tomorrow. |
| 03:26.47 | prpplague | hmm, the closest fry's is a good distance from the house |
| 03:26.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: later |
| 03:28.49 | Mirell | zomg: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/ |
| 03:28.54 | Mirell | My life is complete. |
| 03:31.31 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 03:31.32 | cajaka | http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Vargo-Titanium-Spork-Gold_W0QQitemZ140191469962QQcmdZViewItem gold plated spork |
| 03:33.26 | prpplague | cajaka: hehe |
| 03:33.45 | prpplague | cajaka: wonder if we need to a board called the "spork" or is that trademarked |
| 03:35.26 | Mirell | If it is, one could argue trademark dilution. |
| 03:35.34 | cajaka | Spork: dip packaged usb hub? |
| 03:44.10 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:45.26 | Mirell | I have packed some punchcards to use in lieu of sticky pad notes. |
| 03:46.25 | cajaka | Are they new or used? |
| 03:46.40 | Mirell | New. |
| 03:46.45 | Mirell | I've got a case of 2,000 of them |
| 03:46.52 | Mirell | Leftover from my dad's job. |
| 03:47.44 | cajaka | Ah lucky |
| 03:55.15 | prpplague | Mirell: coool |
| 03:55.41 | prpplague | Mirell: i had a nice little reader for my z80 system |
| 03:55.51 | prpplague | Mirell: adding machine paper roll |
| 03:56.03 | prpplague | Mirell: 9 holes across |
| 03:56.10 | prpplague | Mirell: 8-bits and 1 clock |
| 03:56.23 | prpplague | Mirell: hand crank the data thru |
| 03:59.18 | Mirell | prpplague: My dad has an electric serial reader |
| 03:59.24 | Mirell | He just lacks a hand-held punch |
| 04:00.23 | prpplague | cool |
| 04:01.05 | prpplague | Mirell: there is some HP mainframe system that everyone loves to collect |
| 04:01.18 | *** join/#edev JonHylands (n=hylandsj@CPE001c102333bd-CM0014e88f58e0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:01.49 | *** part/#edev JonHylands (n=hylandsj@CPE001c102333bd-CM0014e88f58e0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:01.55 | prpplague | Mirell: i was thinking it would be cute to make a mini 1/16 version of the HP system with the hammer inside |
| 04:02.16 | prpplague | Mirell: use cassette tape for the real to real |
| 04:04.32 | prpplague | trying to remember what it was |
| 04:07.57 | prpplague | shoot |
| 04:11.59 | cajaka | Two weeks ago I was actually thinking about using some 74595 to make a fake toggle switch computer |
| 04:13.52 | ccjoe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:13.58 | ccjoe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.03 | ccjoe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:19.42 | ccjoe | oops, sorry keyboard dropped |
| 04:39.49 | landley | cajaka: I prefer http://www.splayds.com/ |
| 05:01.07 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 13:14.27 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 13:42.18 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil (n=mauve@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 14:28.51 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 14:29.03 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=mchouina@209.217.106.98) |
| 14:29.48 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 14:29.56 | RobotGuy | G'Morning everyone. |
| 14:32.35 | RobotGuy | I will be receiving my Hammer Kit today! :D |
| 14:36.18 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 14:36.18 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 14:39.20 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 14:52.22 | RobotGuy | 'G'Morning prpplague |
| 15:02.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: greetings |
| 15:04.29 | RobotGuy | How is everything this morning? |
| 15:07.44 | prpplague | ssdd |
| 15:07.48 | prpplague | just getting starte |
| 15:07.50 | prpplague | started |
| 15:08.12 | prpplague | fortunately we have some nice coffee today as a coffee service brought some by as a demo |
| 15:11.20 | *** join/#edev Redhatter-Out (n=stuartl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) |
| 15:12.30 | Mirell | Apparently we have Starbucks today. |
| 15:12.47 | RobotGuy | I just broke the VS terminals on my new bot board. :( |
| 15:14.07 | RobotGuy | No matter how careful I am, I always break these battery terminals. :( :( |
| 15:14.17 | RobotGuy | Great way to start my day. |
| 15:35.54 | RobotGuy | I suggested to Lynxmotion, when they were just starting the design of the new bot board, that they should use heavier battery terminals, like the Sabertooth motor controllers have. |
| 15:36.23 | RobotGuy | I don't have ANY trouble with the battery terminals on my Sabertooth 2x5. |
| 15:53.31 | Mirell | Man, the machine names here are horrendous. |
| 15:54.04 | chouimat|work | Mirell: the windows naming scheme? |
| 15:55.09 | Mirell | Like, CHFSEDCDB02 |
| 15:55.39 | chouimat|work | Mirell: sound like a windows admin is nearby |
| 15:56.11 | Mirell | Sad, since that's a Linux machine |
| 15:56.52 | RobotGuy | My Linux only box is quark. |
| 15:57.37 | chouimat|work | Mirell: I try to have more interesting names ... my current scheme is derived from the female characters in Dune :) |
| 15:57.56 | Mirell | Well, Lord knows it'd be easier to remember/say. |
| 15:59.42 | RobotGuy | Mine are from Star Trek |
| 16:00.03 | Mirell | Mine are random anime girls. |
| 16:00.34 | RobotGuy | I almost have all the parts to build a third PC. |
| 16:00.36 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: it's always fun to see the face of people when I say something like: it's easy to fix I just need to ssh to jessica ... |
| 16:00.54 | RobotGuy | Yeah, I bet that gets some interesting looks! |
| 16:01.58 | Mirell | I need to mount Asuka on Lumiere. |
| 16:02.26 | chouimat|work | Mirell: yup that too |
| 16:09.35 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:12.24 | *** part/#edev Heet (n=lucas@a82-92-5-118.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:18.53 | Mirell | Yep...yep... |
| 16:19.00 | Mirell | I've gotten a second cup of coffee today... |
| 16:19.31 | Mirell | That's..my...uh...biggest accomplishment so far. |
| 16:26.09 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD28B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:28.11 | Mirell | Definitely need to get rear-view mirrors for my cubicle. |
| 16:43.35 | RobotGuy | I need a rear view mirror for my power wheel chair. |
| 16:45.33 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 16:45.50 | SpeedEvil | get a LCD one |
| 16:49.10 | GPSFan | prpplague: ping |
| 16:49.10 | RobotGuy | I would like to create a lighting controller for my wheel chair. I go out after dark a lot and all I have is two flags on my chair right now. |
| 16:49.20 | prpplague | GPSFan: pong |
| 16:49.28 | prpplague | GPSFan: just reading the zipit eula |
| 16:49.29 | RobotGuy | I want an on board wheel chair computer. :) |
| 16:49.32 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: dealextreme.com |
| 16:49.46 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: look on the 'flashlight parts' section |
| 16:49.55 | GPSFan | prpplague: do you know if it is possible to switch from a running kernel to another one without rebooting? |
| 16:50.16 | SpeedEvil | several* 1W-3W LEDs, and reflectors, and drivers cheap. Running off the main abtteries? |
| 16:50.20 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, its called usermode linux |
| 16:50.38 | SpeedEvil | there is also kexec |
| 16:50.38 | GPSFan | but the original kernel is still running? |
| 16:50.40 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 16:50.45 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ |
| 16:51.03 | SpeedEvil | kexec is a set of systems call that allows you to load another kernel |
| 16:51.03 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:51.06 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:51.06 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 16:51.37 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea if you want to replace the currently running kernel use kexec |
| 16:51.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: i thought might want to do some testing |
| 16:51.56 | GPSFan | SpeedEvil: thanks, does it mean that that has to be compiled into the original kernel? |
| 16:52.06 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea |
| 16:52.17 | SpeedEvil | Or a module? |
| 16:52.22 | GPSFan | prpplague: want to replace the currently running kernel. ie the Z2 kernel. |
| 16:52.55 | prpplague | GPSFan: while running? |
| 16:53.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: to what end? |
| 16:53.10 | GPSFan | SpeedEvil: ah so I should be able to compile a kexec module (?), load it and then use the syscalls to switch to a new kernel |
| 16:53.22 | SpeedEvil | GPSFan: I'm not sure if it can be modularised |
| 16:53.35 | SpeedEvil | In principle - sure, in practice, it may not do that |
| 16:53.35 | GPSFan | prpplague: curiosity |
| 16:53.46 | prpplague | ahh |
| 16:53.49 | GPSFan | SpeedEvil: understood, thanks |
| 16:54.21 | RobotGuy | There has been a version change for at least one package in buildroot. |
| 17:04.07 | prpplague | ~quote scoxq.pk |
| 17:05.24 | RobotGuy | I tried to do a build last night, but it failed due to not being able to download the second package. |
| 17:06.20 | Mirell | prpplague: It amuses me their website is still up |
| 17:06.32 | chouimat|work | ? |
| 17:11.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which package is failing? |
| 17:12.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm surprised since the build shouldn't have needed to download anything if you used the buildroot from the cd |
| 17:15.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: still there? |
| 17:35.10 | RobotGuy | I don't have my kit yet. I downloaded buildroot from the wiki link. |
| 17:35.30 | RobotGuy | I will get the name of the package when I reboot into Linux. |
| 17:35.35 | RobotGuy | BRB |
| 17:47.53 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:49.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The package is mpfr |
| 17:54.50 | *** join/#edev Heet (n=lucas@a82-92-5-118.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 18:04.34 | RobotGuy | It's tryng do download mpfr-2.2.1.tar.bz2 |
| 18:09.39 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:12.13 | wmat | prpplague: wiki to move this coming week if the movial guy is available |
| 18:12.41 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 18:17.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok let me look |
| 18:22.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yep, there is a bogus entry there |
| 18:22.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: one sec and i'll have it fixed |
| 18:23.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. |
| 18:25.06 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.111.182) |
| 18:26.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Software |
| 18:26.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: download mpfr.mk and copy over the mpfr.mk in buildroot/packages/mpfr |
| 18:26.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then retry |
| 18:27.49 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 18:27.57 | prpplague^2 | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Software |
| 18:28.01 | prpplague^2 | RobotGuy: download mpfr.mk and copy over the mpfr.mk in buildroot/packages/mpfr |
| 18:28.03 | prpplague^2 | RobotGuy: then retry |
| 18:29.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It is working now. Thanks for the fix. |
| 18:31.02 | prpplague | np |
| 18:31.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that needs to be fixed in buildroot, i see its broken in the main svn\ |
| 18:31.38 | RobotGuy | If there is a bug somewhere, I will probably trip over it. :) |
| 18:32.56 | GPSFan | prpplague: I wonder why I didn't run into it? In my dl dir is mpfr-2.2.1 and mpfr-2.3.0 |
| 18:34.17 | prpplague | GPSFan: if you look at the .mk it downloads the current version but expects the current version to be 2.2.1 |
| 18:34.31 | prpplague | GPSFan: the cd already has the tarballs needed in the dl dir |
| 18:34.44 | RobotGuy | I am a newbie to Hammer, so maybe I try stuff more experienced people would not do. |
| 18:34.45 | GPSFan | ah. |
| 18:34.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: so it downloaded 2.3.0 but since 2.2.1 was already there, thats what it used |
| 18:35.26 | prpplague | GPSFan: basically the current .mk guarantes that a change in version will cause it to break |
| 18:36.01 | GPSFan | mine has mpfr-2.3.0 in toolchain_build_arm |
| 18:37.08 | prpplague | GPSFan: really? |
| 18:37.16 | prpplague | GPSFan: interesting, not sure how that happened then |
| 18:37.20 | GPSFan | and my mpfr.mk is looking for 2.3.0 |
| 18:37.29 | prpplague | GPSFan: odd |
| 18:37.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: did you update you buildroot or something? |
| 18:37.47 | prpplague | GPSFan: the one i ship with is 2.2.1 |
| 18:37.53 | GPSFan | dated sept 22 |
| 18:38.17 | GPSFan | probably got a new buildroot from the hammer software page |
| 18:38.34 | prpplague | GPSFan: it has the same one 2.2.1 |
| 18:38.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: possible you found the problem earlier and tweaked it? |
| 18:39.14 | prpplague | GPSFan: whats the date on your mpfr.mk file? |
| 18:39.52 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 18:40.37 | GPSFan | sept 22 01:15 |
| 18:41.12 | RobotGuy | Now I have a build error on binutils. |
| 18:41.27 | RobotGuy | I will see if I can figure out what happened. |
| 18:42.24 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea the file i have is marked aug 21st |
| 18:43.36 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea buildroot didn't update theirs until sep17th |
| 18:43.40 | RobotGuy | I haven't tweaked anything. Just trying to get the stock setup to build. I have the mpfr.mk prpplague had me download. |
| 18:43.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: i suspect you updated yours and forgot |
| 18:44.00 | GPSFan | it was in a buildroot-snapshot.tar.bz2 you are probably right. ;P |
| 18:44.14 | RobotGuy | I am just starting out with Hammer and have not received my kit yet. |
| 18:44.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: right, we were talking about GPSFan's buildroot file |
| 18:44.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: GPSFan has a hammer kit |
| 18:44.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. |
| 18:45.04 | RobotGuy | I am still stalking for the UPS guy.. :D:D |
| 18:45.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you figure out what the binutils error is? |
| 18:45.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, not yet. |
| 18:45.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: did the bintutils tar ball get downloaded? |
| 18:45.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i.e. check the dl dir |
| 18:47.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have binutils-2.17.50.0.17.tar.bz2 |
| 18:48.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok that should be correct |
| 18:48.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I will wait for my kit and then try again with stuff from the CD. |
| 18:48.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe well this helps us figure out what other people might have problems with |
| 18:49.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: any way for you to cut-n-paste the last bit of the output to pastebin.ca ? |
| 18:49.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, well I am more than willing to help find any problems there may be. |
| 18:50.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This is the first place I have a problem: make[4]: Leaving directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/toolchain_build_arm/binutils-2.17.50.0.17-build/bfd' |
| 18:50.23 | RobotGuy | make[3]: *** [info-recursive] Error 1 |
| 18:51.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: was there anything before that? |
| 18:51.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you did copy the Hammer-config to .config right? |
| 18:51.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: make[4]: Entering directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/toolchain_build_arm/binutils-2.17.50.0.17-build/bfd' |
| 18:51.59 | RobotGuy | make[4]: Nothing to be done for `info-am'. |
| 18:51.59 | RobotGuy | make[4]: Leaving directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/toolchain_build_arm/binutils-2.17.50.0.17-build/bfd' |
| 18:51.59 | RobotGuy | make[3]: *** [info-recursive] Error 1 |
| 18:52.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I copied Hammer-config to .config per the wiki instructions. |
| 18:52.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok give me a couple minutes i'm doing a fresh build to test |
| 18:53.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Alright. |
| 18:56.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I also could not do 'make zImage' - said there was not target for zImage. |
| 18:56.30 | RobotGuy | make: *** No rule to make target `zImage'. Stop. |
| 18:56.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: correct, you have to setup your build environment first |
| 18:56.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: let figure out the issue with the buildroot first |
| 18:56.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, then I do not have something setup right. |
| 18:57.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 19:06.20 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 19:06.27 | g1powermac | prpplague, there :-) |
| 19:06.33 | prpplague | greetings |
| 19:18.15 | prpplague | ~seen aldot |
| 19:18.20 | purl | prpplague: i haven't seen 'aldot' |
| 19:30.39 | *** join/#edev Heet (n=lucas@a82-92-5-118.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 20:08.55 | prpplague | wmat: ping |
| 20:09.10 | Mirell | I've printed some documents and scattered them around my desk, in an effort to look productive |
| 20:09.41 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe |
| 20:10.45 | Mirell | I mean, I've seen my boss today, he didn't give me any tasks or any logins to anything, so...yep, yep. |
| 20:11.22 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe, they have a company handbook? |
| 20:11.44 | Mirell | prpplague: Yep, read it. |
| 20:12.01 | prpplague | Mirell: always have that handy to pretend to read if needed, hehe |
| 20:12.23 | Mirell | prpplague: I'm going to order cubicle mirrors |
| 20:12.34 | Mirell | Since I have a huge open area behind me |
| 20:12.47 | wmat | prpplague: pong |
| 20:13.02 | prpplague | wmat: hey just got your email, was there something more? |
| 20:13.09 | prpplague | wmat: that you needed to discuss? |
| 20:14.12 | wmat | prpplague: not at the moment no, i just wanted to give you a heads up for next week |
| 20:14.25 | chouimat|work | Mirell: I'm planning to get the usb missile launcher |
| 20:14.26 | prpplague | wmat: i'm holding off on a bunch of pages |
| 20:14.42 | prpplague | wmat: be back up and running on monday? |
| 20:14.47 | wmat | prpplague: you can go ahead if you like |
| 20:15.04 | wmat | prpplague: no, won't be getting the backup until wednesday or so |
| 20:15.09 | wmat | if the movial guy is available |
| 20:15.11 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 20:15.51 | prpplague | wmat: hmm, so when is he doing the backup? |
| 20:16.08 | wmat | prpplague: i don't know exactly yet |
| 20:16.08 | prpplague | wmat: i don't want to add pages if they get dropped in the move |
| 20:17.06 | wmat | prpplague: i think you're safe it you do them now or over the weekend |
| 20:17.20 | prpplague | wmat: ok |
| 20:19.35 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:22.01 | Mirell | Hmm? |
| 20:22.21 | RobotGuy | I'm having a really off day. :( |
| 20:22.28 | Mirell | Alas. |
| 20:23.10 | RobotGuy | I started off this morning by breaking the Vs battery terminals on the bot board I have for my Lynxmotion project. |
| 20:24.14 | prpplague | http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=6d76d111-2de2-463e-89a6-c2eb29806a6e |
| 20:24.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: package is out for delivery |
| 20:24.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: and i was unable to replicate your binutils issue |
| 20:25.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: probably need to log the output for your build and email it to me so i can track down your issue |
| 20:25.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I will probably get the kit around 2PM today. |
| 20:25.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm guessing that your linux distro doesn't have something installed |
| 20:27.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Anything is possible today. |
| 20:27.35 | landley | I might have an interview with the people who wrote this: http://www.fulcrum.com/solutions/index.html |
| 20:27.47 | landley | I'm on paragraph 7, still trying to figure out "what do they _do_?" |
| 20:28.01 | landley | After each paragraph, "yes, but what do you DO?" |
| 20:28.11 | landley | Sell an improved kind off white-out? |
| 20:28.14 | landley | Wiki software? |
| 20:28.18 | landley | Some kind of google search tool clone?/ |
| 20:28.21 | landley | Wireless access points? |
| 20:28.22 | landley | What? |
| 20:29.19 | RobotGuy | Do you really want to work for a company like that? |
| 20:30.06 | prpplague | landley: ECM stuff |
| 20:30.27 | prpplague | landley: they basically make it so paper documents can be stored electronically and then retrieved easily |
| 20:30.38 | Mirell | ENTERPRISE CONTENT MANAGEMENT |
| 20:31.55 | prpplague | landley: fun fun stuff |
| 20:32.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What would the build need that I might not have installed? I'm running Fedora 8 at present but really don't like it much. |
| 20:34.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: fedora tends not to install alot of the needed dev packages by defaul |
| 20:34.10 | prpplague | default |
| 20:34.47 | prpplague | Mirell: the ecm package i did for ABCS, i named Advantage Image Document System |
| 20:34.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I can't seem to find a distro that can run all the software I need. |
| 20:34.57 | prpplague | Mirell: to this day this still call it that |
| 20:35.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: naw, its just a matter of installing it |
| 20:35.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I would if I knew what package. |
| 20:35.38 | prpplague | one sec phone |
| 20:37.25 | Mirell | prpplague: That's...beautiful |
| 20:38.14 | Mirell | landley: You could get a job here! |
| 20:40.30 | Mirell | Yeah, I know. |
| 20:40.40 | Mirell | That's why he's having trouble finding a job. |
| 20:41.27 | landley | RobotGuy: not really, no. |
| 20:41.37 | landley | I just have recruiters phoning me up and waving stuff at me. |
| 20:41.59 | landley | The need a networking person for some reason. 3 month contract. |
| 20:42.11 | Mirell | For stupid money? |
| 20:42.11 | landley | 3 month contract is nature's way of saying "I'm being indecisive, without going bankrupt". |
| 20:42.24 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:42.30 | landley | For money that could use a stern talking to, but not actually stupid. |
| 20:42.51 | landley | I can put up with almost anything for three months. |
| 20:42.54 | landley | I put up with _dell_ for 3 months. |
| 20:43.20 | prpplague | landley: hehe, well i'm guessing you will probably vomit when you see some of their network configurations |
| 20:43.36 | landley | I know. |
| 20:44.35 | landley | But I've been paid to hold back the vomit before. And the website could easily be the marketing department's fault, not the techies. |
| 20:44.44 | landley | Anyway, I have to head off to UT soonish. |
| 20:44.47 | landley | Back online this evening... |
| 20:44.55 | Mirell | landley: What's at UT? |
| 20:46.21 | landley | Meeting a realtor and a haircutting place, maybe a bit of coffee shop time and lunch too. |
| 20:46.31 | Mirell | landley: Going to move to the condo? |
| 20:46.33 | landley | The realtor's the "must be at UT" part. |
| 20:46.36 | landley | haven't decided yet. |
| 20:46.39 | Mirell | Ahh.. |
| 20:46.43 | Mirell | I strongly advise against. |
| 20:46.46 | Mirell | But whichever. |
| 20:46.47 | Mirell | Ciao. |
| 20:46.49 | landley | Why? |
| 20:47.10 | landley | Keep in mind that Fade and I had a year and change away from it. |
| 20:47.12 | Mirell | You've nostalgized the bad parts after being in Pittsburgh for a while. |
| 20:47.17 | Mirell | Exactly. |
| 20:47.21 | landley | And the frat house across the street has a for sale sign. |
| 20:47.31 | Mirell | Okay, there's still a bunch of frat people. |
| 20:47.39 | Mirell | Or just general partiers. |
| 20:47.39 | landley | Alas, true. |
| 20:47.48 | Mirell | Many times at night, random people banged at my door. |
| 20:47.55 | landley | Really? |
| 20:47.56 | Mirell | "Yes?" "Oh, sorry man, wrong door" |
| 20:47.58 | landley | Didn't do that when I was there. |
| 20:48.08 | Mirell | Wandered off drunk to another neighbor's condo |
| 20:48.18 | landley | Probably a specific neighbor you had at the time. |
| 20:48.34 | landley | I had one with an evil stereo system, but they moved out after a semester. |
| 20:48.40 | Mirell | *shrug* |
| 20:48.47 | landley | I do admit the potluck nature of the thing. But this isn't the channel to discuss that. :) |
| 20:48.53 | Mirell | Heh. |
| 20:48.57 | landley | Later... |
| 20:49.03 | Mirell | And it's one to discuss peak production? ;P |
| 20:49.05 | Mirell | Shoot. |
| 21:00.25 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp243.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 21:02.15 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:11.14 | Mirell | Stapler has been acquired. |
| 21:25.33 | agaffney | heh |
| 21:26.22 | agaffney | I just ordered a roll-up keyboard, 2 powersquids with the surge protection, and Kill-A-Watt :P |
| 21:26.29 | agaffney | hurray thinkgeek |
| 21:27.44 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:27.47 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 21:32.13 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe |
| 21:32.17 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD28B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:32.46 | prpplague | Mirell: i don't mind a little off topic, just not so that it takes over the channel or becomes hostile |
| 21:36.56 | Mirell | prpplague: Yah, and neither that nor this was. ^^ |
| 21:37.17 | prpplague | hehe indeed |
| 22:05.03 | RobotGuy | I have my Hammer Kit now. |
| 22:10.58 | Mirell | RobotGuy: Cool! |
| 22:37.56 | RobotGuy | I have to switch to Windows again. :( My Lynxmotion project requires Windows only software. :( |
| 22:38.26 | RobotGuy | Oh, there prpplague is, way up on top. |
| 22:44.30 | RobotGuy | I think Lynxmotion can wait. :) |
| 22:50.30 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:52.28 | RobotGuy | All I can say so far is Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, shiney |
| 22:54.13 | cajaka | Looks like I got home just in time |
| 22:54.50 | RobotGuy | In time for what? |
| 22:55.19 | RobotGuy | Uh oh, problem. I don't have a male to male DB9 adapter. |
| 22:55.39 | RobotGuy | I must go purchase one! |
| 23:00.08 | RobotGuy | Or do I need one? |
| 23:01.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh what? |
| 23:01.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what do you need a male to male adapter for? |
| 23:02.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you should have everything you need to get started in the box |
| 23:03.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague. OK. I have the flyswatter hooked up USB. |
| 23:03.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: linux system? |
| 23:04.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, Fedora 8 at present. I prefer Debian. |
| 23:04.50 | RobotGuy | Or Gentoo |
| 23:05.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, you should have gotten a /dev/ttyUSB0 and /dev/ttyUSB1 enumberated |
| 23:06.30 | RobotGuy | I have /dev/ttyUSB0 - USB3. I have another JTAG that works with Crossworks. |
| 23:06.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh ok |
| 23:06.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: one sec |
| 23:07.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: unplug the flyswatter, check which ttyUSB's you have |
| 23:07.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then plug the flyswatter back in |
| 23:08.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm guessing you'll get ttyUSB2 and ttyUSB3 |
| 23:09.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It will be USB2 and USB3 |
| 23:09.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok ttyUSB3 will then be the serial port on the flyswatte |
| 23:10.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: connect the rs-232 cable from the db9 on the flyswatter to the db9 on the carrier board |
| 23:10.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: should be able to open a minicom session using /dev/ttyUSB3 |
| 23:10.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which will give you the console port on the hammer(when powered on) |
| 23:11.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just a note, you can also have a look at your /var/log/messages to see what ports are assigned |
| 23:13.24 | prpplague | interesting i'm getting an error for /. |
| 23:13.26 | prpplague | http://slashdot.org/ |
| 23:13.47 | prpplague | wow slashdot.org is down |
| 23:13.58 | prpplague | ~quote scoxq.pk |
| 23:13.59 | SpeedEvil | it got digged |
| 23:14.14 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: oh? |
| 23:14.19 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: over what? |
| 23:15.31 | prpplague | ~slashdot |
| 23:15.42 | prpplague | ok not just me then |
| 23:16.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: heading to the house, bbiab |
| 23:17.35 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=stuartl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) |
| 23:20.42 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@24-155-240-186.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 23:36.52 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:37.10 | prpplague | bringout your dead!!! prpplague in the house |
| 23:38.36 | prpplague | landley: ok soooooo, due the EE i'm going to have 40 days, thats days not working days, to bring up a complete handheld hardware |
| 23:38.47 | RobotGuy | I think Fedora does not like me. Only Debian really seems to like me, but won't run all the software I need. |
| 23:39.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you get the console up first? |
| 23:39.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not yet. |
| 23:39.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'd try that first |
| 23:39.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then openocd |
| 23:41.01 | landley | prpplague: fun. |
| 23:41.12 | landley | Why is the EE to blame here? |
| 23:41.36 | RobotGuy | Nothing is working for me today. |
| 23:42.20 | prpplague | landley: he's had 8 months to do the hardware |
| 23:42.31 | prpplague | landley: that he should have done in 3 |
| 23:42.49 | prpplague | landley: so the software people get the punishment for him dragging his feet |
| 23:43.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe i've had days like that |
| 23:44.29 | landley | Fun. |
| 23:44.34 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 23:44.37 | landley | Did you register this with management already? |
| 23:44.45 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 23:44.49 | landley | ok |
| 23:45.08 | landley | What exactly do you need to do within these 40 days? |
| 23:45.21 | RobotGuy | I have console! |
| 23:45.27 | landley | What do you need to get working? |
| 23:45.41 | landley | A full X environment with gui toolkit and apps? |
| 23:45.47 | landley | kernel booting to a shell prompt? |
| 23:45.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have console to Hammer! |
| 23:46.03 | landley | A developer CD with documentation? |
| 23:46.47 | prpplague | landley: custom lcd framebuffer+ts, custom power management and battery charging, custom keyboard and track ball, magstripe reader, barcode scanner interface, and an audio codec interface |
| 23:47.01 | prpplague | landley: most of the classes are there, but none the less its all custom |
| 23:47.14 | prpplague | landley: its doable, just don't like being rushed for a product release |
| 23:48.05 | GPSFan | prpplague: and of course this new hardware is 100% debugged & functional. |
| 23:48.27 | prpplague | GPSFan: HA you are very funny for friday |
| 23:49.38 | prpplague | GPSFan: not only is the hardware untested, i won;t even have it in my hads for another 60 days |
| 23:49.46 | prpplague | s/had/hands |
| 23:50.04 | GPSFan | so you have -20 days for sw development... |
| 23:50.38 | prpplague | GPSFan: i have +40 after i get it in my hands |
| 23:50.53 | GPSFan | ah. |
| 23:51.02 | prpplague | GPSFan: just gonna have to do as much as i can with similiar hardware |
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| 23:55.33 | prpplague | good deal |
| 23:57.10 | prpplague | GPSFan: i get the feeling that this guy has always worked with a micromanager supervisor |
| 23:58.16 | GPSFan | prpplague: has he much experience? |
| 23:58.16 | prpplague | GPSFan: 20+ years of EE work |
| 23:58.23 | landley | Some people need to be micromanaged. |
| 23:58.31 | landley | Me, I seem to do best reporting weekly. |
| 23:58.33 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 23:58.39 | prpplague | landley: same for me |
| 23:58.41 | GPSFan | that's a good start. did he ever work as a technician as a summer job while in school? |
| 23:58.56 | prpplague | GPSFan: no privy to that info |
| 23:59.00 | prpplague | not |
| 23:59.25 | GPSFan | oh well if not he missed a golden opportunity. |
| 23:59.28 | landley | Weekly means "I just don't feel up to this today" works, which really reduces burnout. But it also means "wow, it's been a month since I've heard from anybody! How do I justify my continued employment?" |
| 23:59.58 | prpplague | landley: at any given moment i might look like i'm look like i'm off oon some odd tangent, but by the end of the week have everything done |