| 00:01.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: problem is he really screwing up the engineering department |
| 00:05.12 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.111.182) |
| 00:07.05 | landley | prpplague: how many engineers does the engineering department have? |
| 00:07.09 | landley | Is he the only hardware design guy? |
| 00:07.49 | prpplague | landley: we have about 15 engineers, he's the lead EE, two juniors |
| 00:08.40 | RobotGuy | prplague: I got OpenOCD to build. If openocd is in my path, it should not have to be where hammer.cfg and hammer.ocd is. |
| 00:09.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no the scripts are not configured properly, they are written to execute in the same directory |
| 00:09.25 | RobotGuy | Ooops. |
| 00:10.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you can execute the openocd binary from your path, just need to be in the directory with hammer.cfg and hammer.ocd when you execute it |
| 00:10.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You mean hammer.cfg and hammer.ocd, right? Those are in the same directory. |
| 00:10.46 | prpplague | yea |
| 00:10.56 | RobotGuy | OK, I am good so far then. :) |
| 00:11.03 | RobotGuy | I thought that would be the case |
| 00:13.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no real need to flash the bootloader as of yet |
| 00:13.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'd start with getting familiar with the default kernel and ramdisj |
| 00:14.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have another question though - which way does the jtag connector go on hammer? My guess would be with the notched side of the connector towards the far end of hammer. |
| 00:14.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just want to make sure JTAG is working. |
| 00:14.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you look closely there is a silk mask on the board with a slash "/" on the edge |
| 00:16.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: pin1 of the jtag is on the side of the carrier board marked VD0 |
| 00:18.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: There is VD0 on both sides of the hammmer. |
| 00:19.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh there should only be one VD0 |
| 00:19.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: One is a pin on the hammer and the other is on the prototype area. |
| 00:19.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh i see what you are refering to |
| 00:20.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not for the protoarea |
| 00:20.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the section thats directly related to the hammer dip socket |
| 00:20.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: JTAG pin to VD0 on the hammer then. |
| 00:20.50 | RobotGuy | (Pin 1 of JTAG) |
| 00:20.54 | prpplague | yep |
| 00:21.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you look closely at the hammer you can see the silkmask |
| 00:21.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: next rev of the hammer it will be marked better |
| 00:22.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The silkmask around the hammer is good. I can see that. |
| 00:22.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: JTAG is working as far as I can tell now. :) |
| 00:23.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you reflash the bootloader? |
| 00:23.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Noooooooo, not brave enough for that yet. :) |
| 00:23.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh, then how can you tell its working? |
| 00:24.09 | prpplague | did you start openocd without the flash script? |
| 00:24.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just did openocd -f hammer.cfg |
| 00:25.52 | RobotGuy | UH OH |
| 00:26.50 | *** join/#edev rakhus (n=rakhus@cpe-24-58-193-200.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 00:27.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:27.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that reflashed the bootloader kernel and rootfs |
| 00:27.37 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:27.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: trial by fire, hehe |
| 00:28.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: don't worry, the hammer is easy as pie to reflash |
| 00:28.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I didn't have the files in the same dir as the cfg and ocd files |
| 00:29.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, yea i'm re-working the script to handle that kind of problems |
| 00:30.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just cp the files over in the same dir as the cfg and ocd files |
| 00:30.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then re-try |
| 00:31.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I bricked it. |
| 00:31.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hammer isn't brickable, just need to reflash it |
| 00:32.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just copy the apex.bin , zImage, and rootfs over to the same dir as the cfg and ocd files |
| 00:32.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: cd to that dir, and then issue the openocd command |
| 00:34.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The files on the CD don't seem to match what openocd looks for, or maybe what hammer.ocd looks for. |
| 00:34.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea the naming is probably off, we've had some problems with cd creation chopping off the names |
| 00:36.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you may need to rename the files to match whats in the script |
| 00:36.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Maybe the filenames the script looks for need to be changed. |
| 00:36.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: more likely the cd is incorrect |
| 00:36.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what are the names in the binary dir for the hammer? |
| 00:37.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, it is. However, if you just change the filenames the script looks for to match what is on the CD, then all will be good. :) |
| 00:37.49 | prpplague | hehe, yea you can do it that way, its just the cd is incorrect hehe |
| 00:37.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what ever floats your board |
| 00:37.57 | prpplague | boat |
| 00:38.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll have to have a look at it monday |
| 00:38.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I was just suggesting a temporary change until the CD can be gotten like you want it. |
| 00:39.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea the cd is an easy fix, iirc we fixed it last week, but we still have about a dozen burned cd's |
| 00:39.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: guess your box didn't get updated |
| 00:39.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: ALL IS GOOD. My Hammer is alive again! |
| 00:39.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no worries mate |
| 00:40.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you can tinker with everything on the hammer without fear of bricking |
| 00:40.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I am learning more this way. |
| 00:40.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: next rev of the cd will have a single command line script to do the reload |
| 00:41.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Good. |
| 00:41.10 | prpplague | cajaka: ?? |
| 00:41.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You might consider making ISOs available of the CD. |
| 00:41.42 | cajaka | I keep logs of irc, that just makes thing easyer to find later |
| 00:42.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, we are going to do that, however right now we aren't distributing the schematic for the hammer on the web site, you have to order a kit to get the schematic |
| 00:42.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so i have to make a seperate ISO with the schematic |
| 00:42.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Got that. :) |
| 00:43.27 | prpplague | w/with/without |
| 00:44.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Thanks for your patience. Sorry for the trouble. |
| 00:45.38 | *** part/#edev rakhus (n=rakhus@cpe-24-58-193-200.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 00:45.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no problem at all |
| 00:45.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its the kind of feedback i'm looking for |
| 00:46.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i want to know what people are having problems with |
| 00:46.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: seem 99% of the people are having problem with the jtag interface |
| 00:47.06 | prpplague | landley: btw, not a complaint or anything, but your jtag description as part of the nail board text isn't very accurate per se |
| 00:47.23 | prpplague | landley: trying to think of a better way of explaining it |
| 00:49.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Nothing like a Hammer newbie to show you where they have problems. But WHY did it have to be ME? Hee hee |
| 00:50.33 | RobotGuy | pprplague: Just tell people the red line on the JTAG cable goes toward the power connector. |
| 00:50.35 | SpeedEvil | (I know you can't program it) |
| 00:50.38 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: too manu IP related issues |
| 00:51.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats only if they are using the basic carrier board of course |
| 00:51.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: True. |
| 00:51.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you can stepstone for several devices including eeprom and nand flash |
| 00:52.11 | prpplague | oops that was for SpeedEvil |
| 00:52.25 | SpeedEvil | is it pin-strap, or it just tries them all? |
| 00:52.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: pin strapped |
| 00:52.36 | landley | prpplague: the nail board text was a quick hack, and I haven't really used a jtag much. |
| 00:52.52 | prpplague | landley: indeed that why i said it wasn't a complaint |
| 00:53.02 | landley | I know that jtags can do all sorts of other things, and essentially manually clock a board and write arbitrary values to any pins it covers. |
| 00:53.07 | SpeedEvil | Also - I got confused when reading the datasheet - do you happend to know if there is a (not brought out in hammer) set of port pins that can do parallel inbound or outbound DMA? |
| 00:53.20 | prpplague | landley: yea there are two basic modes for jtag |
| 00:53.24 | RobotGuy | Well, I am happy. Everything in my kit is working. :D |
| 00:53.26 | landley | But from a software person's perspective, it's "a way to flash a board from the outside, to get it out of brick state". |
| 00:53.30 | landley | Everything else is gravy. |
| 00:53.43 | RobotGuy | Now I can concentrate on learning buildroot and such |
| 00:53.45 | SpeedEvil | (idle question, unless I find someone with a yearning to make me free pcbs) |
| 00:53.47 | landley | It whitens teeth, freshes breath, _and_ it's a floor wax, but that's not interesting in this context. :) |
| 00:53.48 | prpplague | landley: first allows you to manually toggle all of the i/o lines, just line you have switches attached to the lines |
| 00:54.11 | landley | prpplague: and this is interesting to software people how? |
| 00:54.29 | prpplague | landley: that mode isn't generally |
| 00:54.50 | SpeedEvil | It's killer for programming stuff that is not JTAG though |
| 00:55.02 | prpplague | landley: that mode is generally more for the hardware people to do testing |
| 00:55.03 | SpeedEvil | but is hooked to a device that is |
| 00:55.15 | landley | I'm happy to link out to external docs, and say "A jtag is a versitile tool that can do lots of other things than we cover here. It whitens teeth freshens, breath, and it's a floor wax too. But that's mostly of interest to hardware people." before the link. |
| 00:55.50 | SpeedEvil | just say 'lets you set and read the state of pins - mostly of use to'... |
| 00:55.51 | prpplague | landley: the second mode works very much like gdb in the aspect you can set break points, halt the processor, read register values and such |
| 00:55.52 | SpeedEvil | or something |
| 00:55.52 | landley | "To us, it's a magic device that can reflash a board from the outside." |
| 00:55.58 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 00:56.11 | landley | Can you hook gdb up to a jtag? |
| 00:56.16 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 00:56.18 | prpplague | landley: yep |
| 00:56.23 | landley | Document that then. |
| 00:56.26 | prpplague | landley: openocd fully supports gdb |
| 00:56.40 | landley | "Hooking gdb to the hardware with a jtag". |
| 00:56.49 | landley | Needs a bullet point. |
| 00:57.26 | prpplague | landley: you can think of it this way, openocd works very much like a shell for the processor, the openocd prompt gives you one command at a time control over the processor |
| 00:57.43 | landley | Um... ok? |
| 00:57.58 | landley | So it's a bit like the qemu monitor? |
| 00:58.11 | prpplague | indeed |
| 00:58.30 | landley | I should actually document how to do things in qemu _and_ how to do them on real hardware, side by side. |
| 00:58.30 | SpeedEvil | but rather faster when running |
| 00:59.29 | landley | And start the document by pointing out that arm had 83% of the smart phone market (250 million of the suckers) in 2006. |
| 00:59.39 | landley | http://eetimes.eu/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199702110 |
| 00:59.57 | prpplague | nice |
| 00:59.57 | landley | Arm Inc's Q1 results for 2007: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/19/197211/press/Q12007EarningsRelease.pdf |
| 00:59.59 | SpeedEvil | who had the rest? intel? |
| 01:00.10 | landley | 724 million processors in one _quarter_. |
| 01:00.51 | landley | They estimated their market share at 80-90% of the cell phone market, at 21% of the entire "it has a CPU" market. |
| 01:01.06 | landley | "The arm processor: pretty damn important." |
| 01:01.17 | SpeedEvil | 21% is a damn huge number. |
| 01:01.30 | SpeedEvil | especially considering 4 bitters, and ... |
| 01:01.31 | landley | 724 million in one quarter is a pretty large number. |
| 01:01.45 | prpplague | landley: hehe, i definetly could see the writing on the wall when the yopy came out |
| 01:01.49 | landley | That means they're doing shipping about 3 billion processors a year. |
| 01:01.52 | SpeedEvil | what do they get per processor? |
| 01:01.58 | landley | About 6 cents each. |
| 01:02.04 | SpeedEvil | (on the licensees) |
| 01:02.05 | landley | 6.2 cents, actually. |
| 01:02.12 | landley | It's in the second link. |
| 01:02.20 | landley | That info's a touch stale now, probably. |
| 01:02.21 | prpplague | landley: plus all of the ther AHB devices they sell for the core |
| 01:02.22 | SpeedEvil | small number till you multiply it by a billuon |
| 01:02.34 | landley | That's just the research I did to prepare for my embedded development tutorial at OLS in 2007. |
| 01:02.51 | landley | yopy? |
| 01:03.02 | joe_bleau | Where's the mention of 21% of the entire cpu market? |
| 01:03.45 | prpplague | landley: hehe one of the first handhelds release with linux |
| 01:04.20 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9295982906.html cough interesting |
| 01:04.50 | landley | The cell phone market is eating the handheld market. |
| 01:04.54 | landley | Swallowing it whole. |
| 01:05.01 | landley | This was obvious _before_ the iPhone came out. |
| 01:06.46 | prpplague | landley: just a note, incase you were unaware, the iPhone is using a samsung core similiar to the s3c2410 thats on the hammer |
| 01:11.53 | SpeedEvil | landley: yeah - phone modules are too small and handy to be left out |
| 01:12.21 | ds2 | they should call it what it is. stop using "phone" |
| 01:12.30 | ds2 | it is a radio!! |
| 01:13.03 | landley | Mirell got a shell prompt on his iPhone. |
| 01:13.32 | landley | I'm hoping to pester him into doing a mach-o linker bit for tinycc that I can hook up to the arm code generator to script C on the iPhone with. :) |
| 01:14.31 | prpplague | landley: hehe, should be able to test that kind of stuff on the hammer |
| 01:26.39 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 01:29.24 | cajaka | Is it crazy to think that linux(a hammer) on an ISA card might be usefull to someone? |
| 01:29.53 | prpplague | cajaka: isa slots are pretty darn hard to find these days |
| 01:30.04 | prpplague | cajaka: usb generally makes a better choice |
| 01:30.17 | prpplague | cajaka: intel had one of their first sa-1100 dev boards as an isa board |
| 01:30.40 | prpplague | cajaka: you could a whole host of functions with it via the host pc |
| 01:31.05 | prpplague | cajaka: as pci took over, it just wasn't practical anymore |
| 01:31.25 | prpplague | landley: yopy pda on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Yopy-Linux-PDA-YDK1000_W0QQitemZ320194531250QQihZ011QQcategoryZ38331QQcmdZViewItem |
| 01:32.00 | landley | cajaka: ISA was essentially an S100 bus with unused pins removed. |
| 01:32.11 | cajaka | Yeah I am thinking in resurrecting old hardware. I here of people using old computers just for dumb terminals. The thought of it would be to make them a little "smarter" |
| 01:32.19 | landley | If you can find an ancient S100 system you can get/make an ISA adapter card that just moves pins around. |
| 01:32.51 | landley | cajaka: keep in mind that 8 bit ISA, at 8 mhz, can't quite keep up with 10baseT. |
| 01:32.57 | prpplague | cajaka: indeed in that case you'd basically just use the old pc as a dumb terminal |
| 01:32.59 | landley | (I ran the numbers once, but forgot them since...) |
| 01:33.13 | prpplague | cajaka: the hammer doesn't really have enough i/o to do the isa bus |
| 01:33.26 | RobotGuy | I need to get some food, so will be back a bit later. I am happy with Hammer! :D The real learning begins now. |
| 01:33.28 | landley | Also the electricity to run those old boxes costs more than new hardware after a while. |
| 01:33.32 | prpplague | cajaka: but the sledge hammer would |
| 01:34.37 | prpplague | cajaka: i take that back, if you did it right you could use some external glue logic you could use the hammer |
| 01:34.55 | cajaka | I was thinking of using only a few I/o addresses at most 4 to talk with the hammer. |
| 01:36.46 | landley | Didn't strongarm eat power? |
| 01:36.48 | prpplague | cajaka: looking now |
| 01:36.52 | cajaka | Console, bulk data, config, and possibly network data. |
| 01:36.58 | prpplague | landley: not really |
| 01:37.06 | prpplague | landley: it was one of the first low power cpus |
| 01:37.18 | landley | That's back when I was just first getting into embedded stuff... |
| 01:37.21 | SpeedEvil | 386ex was quite small |
| 01:37.27 | landley | arm predated strongarm by a bit, I know that. :) |
| 01:37.51 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 01:38.20 | prpplague | landley: strongarm and its successor xscale are mutant versions of the standard arm cores |
| 01:40.26 | prpplague | cajaka: yea a quick look suggests that you could shove a hammer into an isa slot |
| 01:40.28 | landley | I vaguely know that bit. |
| 01:40.38 | landley | strongarm became xscale, and then got sold to marvell. |
| 01:41.00 | prpplague | cajaka: actually one thing you could do is use a standard isa serial port card design to communicate to the hammer |
| 01:41.38 | prpplague | landley: intel with the strongarm is really what kicked of the portable device boom with arm |
| 01:41.54 | prpplague | landley: they really really marketed the chip |
| 01:42.06 | cajaka | If forgot 5v to 3v would make it not worth it though. Accually using an serial card was my first though. Then I figured why not rework a homebrew 8255 card |
| 01:42.07 | prpplague | landley: the big key that intel did that none of the other venders were doing |
| 01:42.19 | prpplague | landley: was allow customers to buy as few as 100 chips |
| 01:42.41 | landley | That is indeed cool. |
| 01:42.41 | prpplague | landley: all the other big cpu vendors were requiring 20k units |
| 01:42.55 | landley | And I heard preventing anyone from reselling them in smaller lots. |
| 01:42.58 | landley | Which is possibly illegal. |
| 01:43.00 | prpplague | landley: which allowed small companies to develop very small runs of products |
| 01:43.06 | landley | First sale doctrine and all. |
| 01:43.07 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 01:43.28 | landley | Small runs become large runs when successful. |
| 01:43.40 | prpplague | indeed |
| 01:43.54 | prpplague | landley: and they build a base of engineers are familiar with the product |
| 01:44.07 | prpplague | landley: so when they go to their next job, they naturally use what they know |
| 01:45.19 | prpplague | cajaka: what did you have in mind to work with on the host pc? |
| 01:45.27 | prpplague | cajaka: simple text screens? |
| 01:45.42 | prpplague | cajaka: or were you looking at vga style graphics? |
| 01:47.48 | cajaka | More or less simple text with ansi, for console access. Like landley said there wouldn't be enough bandwidth for major things. |
| 01:48.18 | prpplague | cajaka: you'd be surprised |
| 01:48.24 | prpplague | cajaka: if you use the databus |
| 01:48.34 | prpplague | cajaka: interesting idea though |
| 01:48.44 | cajaka | Yeah I wasn't thinking of trying dma or anything |
| 01:48.53 | prpplague | cajaka: yea, here is the deal |
| 01:49.11 | prpplague | cajaka: if you use the 8-bit bus for the lcd as gpio's connected to D[7:0] |
| 01:49.37 | prpplague | cajaka: then on the address lines, you use a latch decoder to a single interrupt |
| 01:49.47 | prpplague | cajaka: and one gpio for the irq to the pc |
| 01:49.57 | prpplague | cajaka: you could have a pretty darn functional device |
| 01:51.10 | prpplague | cajaka: might have to wire that up just for kicks |
| 01:51.13 | cajaka | So its not as crazy of an idea? Like the thought of the bulk data port would be to copy file to/from the hammer board |
| 01:52.50 | prpplague | yep, neat idea for recycled pc |
| 01:53.02 | landley | Heh heh heh. Just downloaded and booted the linux-0.0.1 kernel under qemu. |
| 01:53.10 | landley | http://lwn.net/Articles/263562/ |
| 01:53.12 | landley | That is _so_cool_. |
| 01:54.13 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:54.25 | prpplague | landley: x86 build? |
| 01:54.44 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 02:01.05 | landley | prpplague: it's the 0.01 build. |
| 02:01.09 | landley | 386 build. :) |
| 02:01.13 | landley | Half of it written in assembly. |
| 02:01.38 | landley | It's basically a series of patches against 0.0.1 that gets it to build with gcc 4.x, and a few more patches to get it to run under qemu. |
| 02:01.45 | landley | Bugfixes, mostly. |
| 02:01.46 | prpplague | landley: thats what i figured, didn't know if you'd hacked it for something |
| 02:01.53 | landley | Nah, somebody else did. |
| 02:02.04 | landley | This area vaguely interested me, but not enough to put time into it. |
| 02:02.46 | prpplague | indeed |
| 02:03.22 | prpplague | landley: i've been tinkering with uzi for years on different platforms |
| 02:03.37 | prpplague | landley: but i've never had a need for it, so it always gets put in the back burner |
| 02:04.16 | prpplague | landley: http://uzix.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=intro&lang=us |
| 02:04.46 | prpplague | landley: i've got a version that boots on arm7, but its not complete |
| 02:05.39 | prpplague | cajaka: the main question about the recycled pc is can you really find that many isa equiped pcs these days? |
| 02:06.29 | cajaka | I am not sure I have been forbidden from bring home any more of them |
| 02:07.06 | landley | prpplague: I left dos behind a long time ago. |
| 02:07.15 | landley | Although just today I found out about "wine cmd" |
| 02:07.26 | landley | And plan to use that to test the pe mode stuff of tinycc, both host and target... |
| 02:07.52 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 02:08.34 | landley | I need to read http://wiki.njh.eu/Cross_Compiling_for_Win32 first though. |
| 02:08.41 | landley | I know _nothing_ about this environment... |
| 02:09.02 | landley | I've written more code in HP minicomputer assembly. |
| 02:09.27 | prpplague | landley: yea, i did some windows code on linux a few years back |
| 02:09.43 | prpplague | landley: chouimat has done several projects |
| 02:09.52 | *** join/#edev cajaka (n=none@cpe-24-58-193-200.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 02:10.24 | prpplague | landley: i used mingw |
| 02:10.59 | prpplague | cajaka: very interesting idea though |
| 02:11.27 | prpplague | cajaka: add an enc28j60 to the board and you've could potential use LTSP |
| 02:12.54 | cajaka | LTSP? |
| 02:12.55 | landley | They recommend mingw, apparently. |
| 02:13.07 | prpplague | cajaka: Linux Terminal Server Project |
| 02:13.16 | prpplague | cajaka: diskless workstation designs |
| 02:13.27 | cajaka | ah |
| 02:15.11 | prpplague | landley: yea it worked well for me |
| 02:15.27 | prpplague | landley: did a telnet terminal with tons of custom functions |
| 02:16.32 | prpplague | landley: did it in about 2 weeks, abcs still sells it for $50 a pop, and they tell people they spent years in development |
| 02:16.53 | prpplague | ~emulate abcs |
| 02:16.54 | purl | if we can't sell it for 500% markup we aren't interested! |
| 02:18.26 | prpplague | cajaka: instead of using an isa card you could do an inline module to convert old rs-232 based dump terminals into network devices |
| 02:19.01 | SpeedEvil | rs232 terminal sources have dried up a bit. |
| 02:19.10 | SpeedEvil | Unless you've got a portal to 1990 |
| 02:19.13 | Mirell | She's not half the girl she...owwww |
| 02:19.21 | landley | I take it abcs is a company you used to work for? |
| 02:19.21 | cajaka | Yeah but that would take the magic out of the box so to speak |
| 02:20.00 | landley | Mirell: she who? |
| 02:20.31 | Mirell | "How can I repay" "Whatever" "She's just going through the motions..." |
| 02:21.51 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you'd be surprised, there are ton of places that still have dumb terminals that want to update without the expense |
| 02:22.24 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 02:22.37 | SpeedEvil | dumb terminals work just fine. |
| 02:22.55 | SpeedEvil | I suppose if you mean 'new' ones - then yes. |
| 02:23.01 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning legacy ones. |
| 02:23.05 | SpeedEvil | W@hich |
| 02:23.16 | SpeedEvil | must be mostly dead by now. |
| 02:23.20 | prpplague | landley: designed this back in 2000 for them - http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8485254374.html |
| 02:23.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe again you;'d be surprised |
| 02:23.54 | SpeedEvil | Possibly. |
| 02:23.59 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: our local CONN's store is still using wyse terminals |
| 02:24.19 | SpeedEvil | I think I tossed mine. |
| 02:24.29 | SpeedEvil | I havcen't seen it in a while. |
| 02:24.33 | cajaka | I love how many old Oki printers I see around still |
| 02:24.47 | SpeedEvil | I am contemplating a _major_ electronics clearout. |
| 02:24.57 | prpplague | cajaka: indeed |
| 02:25.07 | SpeedEvil | Simply as I can't see me doing that much through-hole work in the future |
| 02:27.10 | prpplague | landley: back in my early days of embedded linux - http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3193512578.html |
| 02:27.16 | SpeedEvil | And am I really likely to need a stack of 50 6116's ever again. |
| 02:29.34 | *** join/#edev flyback_ (n=ubuntu@c-24-131-197-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:29.36 | SpeedEvil | My first thoughts on embedded linux |
| 02:29.38 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/tortoise.html |
| 02:30.11 | SpeedEvil | Got to the mechanical model stage, and then ran into supply issues for the display and the CPU |
| 02:31.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: interesting |
| 02:31.39 | SpeedEvil | I have real doubts as to that timestamp |
| 02:31.41 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 02:31.46 | SpeedEvil | I mean the counter |
| 02:31.53 | landley | I got into it more or less via http://web.archive.org/web/20010819062257/http://www.webofficenow.com/index.html |
| 02:32.32 | SpeedEvil | 1996... |
| 02:32.35 | landley | Well, that and pestering people about building Linux entirely from source at Atlanta Linux Showcase 3.0 in 1999. |
| 02:32.38 | SpeedEvil | what was I computing on then. |
| 02:32.42 | landley | A year before Linux From Scratch came out. |
| 02:32.48 | SpeedEvil | I think it may have been a pentium 100 |
| 02:33.01 | landley | I bumped into Linux in 1993 when the SLS disks came across fidonet, but didn't get back into it until 1998. |
| 02:33.07 | landley | Device driver support sucked. |
| 02:33.13 | landley | They weren't doing anything with SMP. |
| 02:33.19 | landley | They were x86 only. |
| 02:33.24 | landley | They thought threading was a bad idea. |
| 02:33.34 | landley | No DOS compatability at all... |
| 02:33.56 | prpplague | landley: i started using linux in 1996 when i got harrased by a m$ sales rep |
| 02:34.20 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. surprising. I guess I wasn't as addicted to usenet in 96, only 400 posts. |
| 02:34.21 | landley | I started using OS/2 in 1993. :) |
| 02:34.22 | prpplague | landley: basically they told me if i didn't stop selling dr-dos with windows 3.1 that they'd charge me with piracy |
| 02:34.38 | SpeedEvil | Oh yeah. I was spending rather a lot of time on MUDs at that time. |
| 02:34.39 | landley | I avoided usenet. |
| 02:34.48 | landley | There was no "to:" field on any of the messages, like fidonet had. |
| 02:35.06 | landley | How did you follow conversations without "to"? |
| 02:35.08 | prpplague | landley: told them , fine all my copies are legit, and he said "thats not the point, we'll keep you in court till you run out of money" |
| 02:35.41 | landley | prpplague: I avoided MS via OS/2, then Linux. |
| 02:35.46 | prpplague | landley: started looking for alternatives the next day |
| 02:35.47 | landley | With java as a sort of transitional period. |
| 02:36.07 | landley | I never went to windows 3.x. Did not want. |
| 02:38.30 | prpplague | landley: hehe i was selling used pc's and thats kinda what people were looking for at the time |
| 02:38.31 | Mirell | landley: http://spamusement.com/index.php/comics/view/197 |
| 02:38.47 | prpplague | landley: used to buy them in bulk from government agencies and refurb them |
| 02:39.31 | landley | Mirell: oh agreed. |
| 02:39.42 | landley | OS/2 stopped being interesting in 1995. |
| 02:39.55 | landley | unfortunately, this was six months _after_ I'd started working for IBM. |
| 02:40.03 | prpplague | landley: ha |
| 02:40.16 | landley | I could give you the whole blow by blow history of that, but I'm pondering locating dinner. |
| 02:40.38 | prpplague | landley: got you beat though, i got hired for a OMAP project at TI, put in my 2 week notice, and the day before i started at TI they killed the project |
| 02:40.53 | prpplague | can you say DOH |
| 02:40.56 | cajaka | ouch |
| 02:42.19 | Mirell | Mmm, food. |
| 02:45.05 | Mirell | landley: Food. |
| 02:45.43 | cajaka | Sudo get me a sandwich |
| 02:45.45 | SpeedEvil | enter a google-groups search for something that results in hits on long threads, and the first bit is entirely references. |
| 02:48.17 | landley | Yea food. |
| 02:48.37 | landley | (Spider house, spider house. Does whatever a spider... house.) |
| 02:49.07 | Mirell | Spider Gregory Jerusalem House. |
| 02:49.37 | landley | If you wanted to swing by here, I might be up for a trip to somewhere else, foodwise. |
| 02:49.44 | landley | If not, fade and I will probably head home soon. |
| 02:49.47 | landley | Leftover roast beef. |
| 02:50.01 | Mirell | Ahh |
| 02:50.26 | Mirell | I'm feeling tired and lazy tonight, so don't feel up for a trip down southwards. |
| 02:50.34 | landley | Understandable. |
| 02:54.01 | landley | And lo, dinner... |
| 02:59.38 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 03:15.32 | prpplague | flyback-: probably a good idea if you keep that info to yourself |
| 03:15.40 | flyback- | ok |
| 03:15.49 | flyback- | i'll at least keep it out of the channel |
| 03:15.54 | flyback- | than I think mankind should be wiped out |
| 03:15.54 | flyback- | :P |
| 03:15.56 | prpplague | good enought |
| 03:16.36 | prpplague | flyback-: i'm sure it will happen soon enough without your help |
| 03:16.48 | prpplague | flyback-: one asteroid and its good bye humans |
| 03:20.16 | flyback- | I can't stomik the bullcrap anymore |
| 03:20.37 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: barring some possible solutions to that. With no warning sure. But that's getting harder. |
| 03:20.56 | prpplague | indeed |
| 03:21.06 | SpeedEvil | Killing 99% of humans is easy. |
| 03:21.14 | SpeedEvil | Killing 99.999% is much harder |
| 03:22.52 | flyback- | i'm waiting to wake up to find half my shit is now illegal all in the name of global warming, anti terrorism, drm or whatever else |
| 03:23.01 | flyback- | thank God my finger is near any button to end the world |
| 03:23.06 | joe_bleau | Jeez, isn't this more than a little off-topic? |
| 03:23.06 | flyback- | cause I would have done it long ago |
| 03:23.20 | flyback- | I guess |
| 03:23.36 | flyback- | but I wonder how long before this channel is closed by all the crap going on |
| 03:23.53 | SpeedEvil | To you, possibly quite quickly. |
| 03:24.17 | flyback- | thats fine |
| 03:24.21 | *** part/#edev flyback- (n=ubuntu@c-24-131-197-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:27.19 | prpplague | jeeze, i don't know why he stopped taking his meds |
| 03:27.31 | prpplague | he was sooo much better when he was taking them |
| 03:29.01 | Mirell | Mmm. |
| 03:29.20 | Mirell | I've been on and off anti-depressants. |
| 03:29.33 | Mirell | They're nice, but too many side effects. |
| 03:29.54 | Mirell | So every few months, I crash, but it lasts about a day or two, then go back to normal. |
| 03:31.21 | prpplague | Mirell: yea i have problems with very bad crashes between projects |
| 03:31.51 | prpplague | Mirell: i've gotten better at handling them in the last few years |
| 03:31.57 | prpplague | Mirell: but they are still pretty bad |
| 03:37.13 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:37.20 | Mirell | 'lo RobotGuy |
| 03:37.32 | RobotGuy | 'hi Mirell |
| 03:38.44 | Mirell | RobotGuy: What is W.A.L.T.E.R you keep mentioning? |
| 03:39.16 | prpplague | Mirell: a bot he's working on |
| 03:39.26 | RobotGuy | Mirell: W.A.L.T.E.R. is my development robot |
| 03:40.08 | prpplague | Mirell: http://www.thedynaplex.org/robotics/rovers/walter/ |
| 03:40.25 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. is going to be controlled by Hammer as soon as I get everything figured out. |
| 03:40.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You got it bookmarked? |
| 03:41.12 | prpplague | yep, i keep track of eval kit users |
| 03:41.27 | RobotGuy | Ah, cool! |
| 03:42.55 | RobotGuy | I am reading how to do buildroot now. |
| 03:43.13 | RobotGuy | If I can get to the PARTS meeting, Hammer is going with me. |
| 03:47.39 | Mirell | RobotGuy: I skimmed that page. So does he have legs or wheels? |
| 03:48.09 | RobotGuy | Mirell, Two wheels |
| 03:48.17 | Mirell | RobotGuy: Ahh, okies. |
| 03:49.18 | RobotGuy | Mirell, I need to get Python into Hammer and then I will start converting W.A.L.T.E.R.'s code over. |
| 03:50.03 | Mirell | Sweet |
| 03:51.41 | RobotGuy | I also have to make a few mods to the carrier board so it can be battery powered. That should not be too difficult. |
| 03:52.16 | RobotGuy | Well, one mod for battery power. Others for other stuff. :) |
| 03:58.13 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm, which Makefile am I supposed to edit to set my cross compile path?? |
| 04:00.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: shouldn't have to edit any makefile for the buildroot |
| 04:00.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its defined in the config file |
| 04:00.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am reading the how to buildroot on the Wiki. |
| 04:02.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ug thats not correct |
| 04:02.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats a for compiling the kernel not buildroot |
| 04:03.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague, OK. |
| 04:03.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all you need for buildroot is to extract the tarball, copy over the config file and type make |
| 04:04.02 | jbevren | yep. built mine, but I havent had time to modify it ugh |
| 04:04.20 | prpplague | jbevren: ?? |
| 04:04.26 | *** join/#edev cajaka (n=none@cpe-24-58-193-200.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 04:04.27 | jbevren | the rootfs |
| 04:04.47 | jbevren | I plan to eventually add usbnet and some userspace tools to help with dev |
| 04:05.02 | jbevren | I have worked out how to use a usb-based rootfs on the TC kernel tho |
| 04:05.06 | prpplague | jbevren: already done, just haven't added in to the defauly build |
| 04:05.09 | jbevren | er TCT kernel |
| 04:05.13 | jbevren | prpplague: cool |
| 04:05.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll have to change that entry |
| 04:05.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that howto page is for the kernel, not buildroot |
| 04:05.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague, OK, I just started make. |
| 04:05.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you need to get your buildroot done first |
| 04:05.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague, Got it. |
| 04:06.40 | RobotGuy | I have a 'hammer' directory on my /src partition so it will still be there if/when I switch to another distro. |
| 04:07.57 | RobotGuy | I do not like Fedora 8, but the Xilinx FPGA tools don't want to run under Debian. I also can not get the Actel FPGA tools running on any distro. :( |
| 04:08.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: as long as the path stays the same, the toolchain is path specific |
| 04:08.28 | RobotGuy | I always have /src mounted where it is. |
| 04:08.41 | prpplague | good deal |
| 04:08.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: buildroot still going |
| 04:08.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ? |
| 04:08.55 | RobotGuy | Yes, still going |
| 04:09.07 | prpplague | good deal |
| 04:09.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll be online for another hour and a half |
| 04:09.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: should have it completed by then |
| 04:09.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague, Cool. :) |
| 04:10.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague, If I can get to the PARTS meeting tomorrow, I am taking Hammer with me - they want to see it. |
| 04:10.19 | prpplague | hehe okie dokie |
| 04:11.50 | RobotGuy | Maybe I can get Hammer some good exposure. |
| 04:11.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats what we are looking for |
| 04:12.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how far are your from portland anyway? |
| 04:12.45 | RobotGuy | I am about 20 or so miles from Portland, in Beaverton (home of Tektronix). |
| 04:13.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh cool |
| 04:13.21 | RobotGuy | Uh oh, error |
| 04:13.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think we are planning to attend the linux plumbers conference in september |
| 04:13.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: let me guess? mpfr ? |
| 04:13.46 | RobotGuy | binutils again. |
| 04:14.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: can you give me the last 40 lines or so on at http://www.pastebin.ca ? |
| 04:17.14 | RobotGuy | OK, I think I can do that. http://www.pastebin.ca/842218 |
| 04:17.57 | RobotGuy | Where is the Linux Plumbers Conference held? |
| 04:18.12 | prpplague | portland |
| 04:18.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea looks like you are missing makeinfo |
| 04:18.45 | RobotGuy | It's in /usr/bin/makeinfo |
| 04:18.55 | RobotGuy | Do I have to be root to do buildroot? |
| 04:19.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no |
| 04:19.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looking now |
| 04:20.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: can you give me about 100 lines instead of 50? |
| 04:20.25 | RobotGuy | Well, I must go to that conference when it comes around. It's practically in my backyard. |
| 04:20.42 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 04:20.43 | *** join/#edev chouimat|busy (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 04:23.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague, http://www.pastebin.ca/842225 |
| 04:24.05 | RobotGuy | I hope that is enough |
| 04:24.27 | RobotGuy | I can't tell how many lines I am getting |
| 04:25.04 | prpplague | thats pleny |
| 04:25.09 | RobotGuy | OK, good. |
| 04:25.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do this: rpm -qa | grep -e info |
| 04:25.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: does texinfo showup? |
| 04:25.51 | RobotGuy | texinfo-tex-4.11-3.fc8 |
| 04:26.50 | prpplague | that the only texinfo that shows up? |
| 04:27.24 | RobotGuy | Also texinfo-4.11-3.fc8 |
| 04:28.46 | prpplague | hmm this is odd |
| 04:28.55 | prpplague | lookingnow |
| 04:29.01 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 04:32.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not sure why that is failing |
| 04:32.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it seems to think makeinfo is missing |
| 04:32.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague, Hmmmm. That can't be good. |
| 04:32.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, its probably something specific to fc8 |
| 04:32.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague, Yeah, I know and don't know why it thinks that. |
| 04:33.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i know it works fine with fc7 |
| 04:33.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: still looking |
| 04:33.14 | RobotGuy | Does it work fine with any other distro? |
| 04:33.31 | prpplague | yea |
| 04:33.35 | RobotGuy | I prefer Debian, but need something similar to RedHat so I can run some software for FPGA stuff |
| 04:33.46 | prpplague | jbevren: ping |
| 04:34.46 | RobotGuy | I guess I could try Ubuntu again, or get Kubuntu. |
| 04:35.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats ok i need to know why its failing for fc8 |
| 04:35.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm sure you aren't the only person with fc8 |
| 04:35.48 | RobotGuy | OK, I will stick with FC8 if it will help you. |
| 04:36.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: give me about 20 minutes to have a look |
| 04:36.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague, OK |
| 04:39.46 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp055.110-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 04:39.53 | RobotGuy | Hi redblue |
| 04:52.30 | *** join/#edev chouimat|away (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 04:54.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: doing some tests now |
| 04:55.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague, OK, I will be here to help any way I can. |
| 04:56.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do this: makeinfo --version |
| 04:58.12 | RobotGuy | makeinfo (GNU texinfo) 4.11 |
| 04:59.01 | prpplague | ok i think there is a bug in the check routine, its only looking for version numbers of X.Y |
| 04:59.08 | prpplague | let me confirm that |
| 04:59.48 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 05:02.29 | ds2 | configure scripts are plain EVIL |
| 05:02.44 | jbevren | ./configure --WITH-CONFIG-EDITOR=vi |
| 05:02.47 | jbevren | lol I wish |
| 05:03.16 | ds2 | so I am not the only one... |
| 05:08.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: testing now |
| 05:09.20 | RobotGuy | OK, I am still here. :) |
| 05:11.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea that looks to be the problem |
| 05:11.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: give me a few to fix and retest |
| 05:11.27 | RobotGuy | Alright, glad to help. |
| 05:18.42 | prpplague | yea thats it, looking at the correct way to fix it |
| 05:18.53 | RobotGuy | Cool. |
| 05:19.48 | *** join/#edev chouimat|busy (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 05:21.05 | Mirell | I wish landley would eventually learn to keep his cell phone charged... |
| 05:21.19 | Mirell | I realize this is a lost hope, considering he hasn't in the four years I've known him, but... |
| 05:21.47 | RobotGuy | I always have my cell charged - it's my ONLY phone. |
| 05:22.35 | Mirell | RobotGuy: It's his as well |
| 05:22.43 | Mirell | And mine as well. |
| 05:22.47 | Mirell | But...yah. |
| 05:23.05 | Mirell | landley is a genius for many deep Linux things, and like a 5 year old for others. |
| 05:23.06 | RobotGuy | I would really like to get an AT&T Tilt. It's too expensive though. |
| 05:23.21 | RobotGuy | That sounds like me too. |
| 05:23.43 | Mirell | I'm just more of a generalist. ^^ |
| 05:23.46 | RobotGuy | All I know is technical stuff. |
| 05:24.24 | Mirell | Oh, see, he keeps going, "Mirell got a terminal prompt on his iPhone!" |
| 05:24.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hey can you give me the full text of the command: makeinfo --version |
| 05:24.44 | Mirell | And I keep telling him, I did absolutely no programming, someone else did it, it was just a few clicks. |
| 05:24.47 | RobotGuy | -> makeinfo --version |
| 05:24.47 | RobotGuy | makeinfo (GNU texinfo) 4.11 |
| 05:24.48 | RobotGuy | Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. |
| 05:24.48 | RobotGuy | License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> |
| 05:24.48 | RobotGuy | This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. |
| 05:24.48 | RobotGuy | There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. |
| 05:24.50 | RobotGuy | l |
| 05:24.52 | Mirell | But it fascinates him. |
| 05:24.53 | Mirell | *shrug* |
| 05:25.32 | RobotGuy | It would be cool to have a phone I could get a Linux prompt from. :) |
| 05:26.55 | Mirell | I might be able to convince my job to pay for my cell phone bill.... |
| 05:27.17 | Mirell | Most of my other coworkers have Blackberries. |
| 05:27.19 | RobotGuy | Have you seen the AT&T Tilt? |
| 05:27.27 | Mirell | RobotGuy: *checks* |
| 05:27.51 | Mirell | Interesting. |
| 05:27.59 | Mirell | That reminds me of the Sidekick. |
| 05:28.25 | RobotGuy | I never thought I would want a Windows Mobile phone, and I would still rather have a Linux based one. |
| 05:29.20 | Mirell | Yah, that's the issue. |
| 05:29.34 | Mirell | Windows Mobile is a *bad idea* |
| 05:30.10 | agaffney | s/Mobile // |
| 05:30.24 | Mirell | Heh. |
| 05:30.47 | Mirell | agaffney: I admit, I like to play games on Windows, just because of sheer other programmer laziness. |
| 05:31.06 | Mirell | But I boot into Windows, play mah Battlefield 1942, done, reboot back into Linux. |
| 05:31.27 | agaffney | I purposely went looking for a Treo 650 instead of one of the newer models to get Palm OS instead of WM |
| 05:31.42 | agaffney | I'd really like to see a new phone using Android |
| 05:31.49 | Mirell | ...ugh. |
| 05:31.55 | Mirell | It's...Java. |
| 05:32.15 | agaffney | yeah, but it's more "capable" than PalmOS and it's not WM |
| 05:32.29 | Mirell | I agree, but... |
| 05:32.40 | Mirell | Sigh. I wish for too much. |
| 05:32.49 | agaffney | however, I probably won't do anything until my Treo dies |
| 05:36.40 | RobotGuy | I do play one game in Windows - World of Warcraft. And my 3D CAD package and a few other things are Windows only. |
| 05:36.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea for some reason its getting the makeinfo version as 4.1 instead of 4.11 |
| 05:37.13 | RobotGuy | Strange. |
| 05:37.13 | Mirell | RobotGuy: My coworkers play Battlefield, and my boss loves the fact the clan Teabags people. |
| 05:37.26 | Mirell | My actual boss...is...insane. |
| 05:37.35 | Mirell | And my team leader, is a cool guy. |
| 05:37.38 | RobotGuy | I don't have a Boss. |
| 05:37.40 | Mirell | The two even themselves out. |
| 05:38.06 | Mirell | Ahh. |
| 05:38.26 | RobotGuy | I just have all day to tinker with cool toys. ;) |
| 05:38.36 | agaffney | I have a boss, but we're just alike |
| 05:38.45 | agaffney | he'll pull me aside to show me a cool new toy :P |
| 05:39.02 | agaffney | next week, we're gonna take the kill-a-watt I just ordered and run around the office plugging shit into it :P |
| 05:39.16 | agaffney | especially the pair of MicroVAX IIs |
| 05:39.17 | RobotGuy | What is a kill-a-watt? |
| 05:39.29 | agaffney | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travelpower/7657/ |
| 05:40.12 | RobotGuy | Ahhh, so that's what it is |
| 05:41.35 | RobotGuy | I have a level 70 Dwarf Hunter on WoW. |
| 05:42.03 | RobotGuy | I have not reactivated my account this month yet though. |
| 05:42.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok lets try this |
| 05:42.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://buildroot.busybox.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/trunk/buildroot/toolchain/binutils/2.18/100-makeinfo-version.patch?rev=20086 |
| 05:42.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: download that patch |
| 05:43.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then cd to the binutils directory |
| 05:43.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the apply the patch |
| 05:43.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i.e. patch -p1 < 100-makeinfo-version.path |
| 05:43.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i.e. patch -p1 < 100-makeinfo-version.patch |
| 05:44.16 | ds2 | Mmmmm kill-a-watts |
| 05:45.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that should complain but it should work |
| 05:49.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll get a corrected patch for the 2.17 in the morning |
| 05:49.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like that fixes it |
| 05:49.55 | RobotGuy | It keeps asking me for File to patch: |
| 05:50.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sounds like you aren't issuing the command properly |
| 05:50.44 | agaffney | RobotGuy: do you know how to use patch? |
| 05:50.58 | RobotGuy | I copied what you said to do. |
| 05:51.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do this, just copy the patch file to the taget/binutils/2.17.50.0.17 directory |
| 05:51.11 | RobotGuy | I know how to use it, but this does not seem to work. |
| 05:51.39 | RobotGuy | OK, got it in the wrong place. |
| 05:52.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: were you in the wrong dir? |
| 05:53.47 | RobotGuy | I do not have a target/binutils dir |
| 05:54.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh sorry my bad, toolchain/binutils |
| 05:54.04 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 05:54.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: getting late me |
| 05:55.20 | RobotGuy | I'm in toolchain/binutils and it does not work. Maybe we should leave this for tonight. |
| 05:55.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what doesn't work? |
| 05:55.39 | RobotGuy | The patch |
| 05:55.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sorry we are talking two different things |
| 05:56.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just copy the 100-makeinfo-version.patch file to the toolchain/binutils/2.17.50.0.17 directory |
| 05:56.43 | prpplague | got that done? |
| 05:57.37 | RobotGuy | I am in buildroot/toolchain/binutils/2.17.50.0.17 |
| 05:58.03 | prpplague | ok copy the 100-makeinfo-version.patch to that directory |
| 05:58.23 | RobotGuy | Not working, sorry. |
| 05:58.25 | RobotGuy | I did |
| 05:58.38 | prpplague | did you copy the file to that directory? |
| 05:58.43 | RobotGuy | I don't know what I am doing wrong. |
| 05:58.45 | RobotGuy | Yes |
| 05:58.49 | prpplague | ok thats all |
| 05:58.56 | prpplague | cd back up to the buildroot dir |
| 05:59.14 | RobotGuy | Ok, I am there |
| 05:59.36 | prpplague | there should be a directory toolchain_arm |
| 05:59.42 | prpplague | correct? |
| 06:00.17 | RobotGuy | I have toolchain_build_arm |
| 06:00.21 | prpplague | yep thats it |
| 06:00.26 | prpplague | cd to that directory |
| 06:00.51 | prpplague | do a ls and you should see a directory marked binutils-2.17.50.0.17 |
| 06:00.56 | prpplague | correct? |
| 06:02.23 | RobotGuy | Yes, and a build dir for that also |
| 06:02.35 | prpplague | delete both of those directories |
| 06:02.46 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 06:03.02 | prpplague | once they are delete cd back to the buildroot dir and do a make |
| 06:03.18 | RobotGuy | OK, they are gone, going back to do make |
| 06:04.35 | RobotGuy | I have make running now |
| 06:04.42 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 06:04.57 | prpplague | that should re-extract binutils, patch it and try to do the build |
| 06:05.42 | RobotGuy | Yes, it's doing that |
| 06:07.35 | prpplague | should work if you got the patch downloaded ok and in the right spot |
| 06:07.52 | prpplague | atleast it works on my end |
| 06:07.56 | RobotGuy | It's still chugging along |
| 06:08.03 | prpplague | thats a good sign |
| 06:08.20 | prpplague | did you see the patch being applied? |
| 06:08.41 | RobotGuy | I missed it - it scrolled by so fast |
| 06:08.47 | prpplague | its ok if you didn;t it usually moves pretty fast |
| 06:09.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: any idea what directory its on now? |
| 06:10.10 | RobotGuy | It looks like it is going on to gcc |
| 06:10.30 | prpplague | ahh then it worked ok |
| 06:10.38 | RobotGuy | I am glad! Good work! |
| 06:10.44 | prpplague | hehe |
| 06:11.00 | prpplague | i'll check the patch into cvs in the morning |
| 06:11.05 | RobotGuy | G'Night. I won't be around in the morning. |
| 06:11.16 | RobotGuy | Got to go to the PARTS meeting and take Hammer. |
| 06:11.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: np, drop me an email if you run into any more problems |
| 06:11.25 | RobotGuy | I will. :) |
| 06:11.29 | prpplague | later folks |
| 06:13.15 | cajaka | I am trying to remember, when this gets done you'll be flashing a setup with python on it right? |
| 06:13.22 | RobotGuy | You still awake Mirell? |
| 06:16.51 | RobotGuy | Well, I am heading off to bed - early up tomorrow for PARTS meeting. |
| 06:21.43 | Mirell | Heh, yes, I was, but anywho. |
| 08:18.19 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp079.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 09:35.44 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 10:32.48 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD1BD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:21.14 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 14:28.10 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@5ac80892.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:41.28 | *** join/#edev bbradley_ (n=bbradley@5ac80892.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:55.58 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 15:19.15 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 15:19.15 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 15:19.52 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 16:13.32 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 16:15.29 | dijenerate | 'morning |
| 16:19.21 | T0mW | yes, it is |
| 16:19.26 | T0mW | :) |
| 16:20.00 | T0mW | And, a cold but clear day in Pennsylvania |
| 16:20.04 | dijenerate | :) |
| 16:20.55 | dijenerate | hey, do you know if there is a freenode channel for the zfs port project? |
| 16:21.06 | T0mW | dunno |
| 16:21.25 | dijenerate | I want to add zfs to my nslu2 on debian etch |
| 16:23.31 | T0mW | hmm, Southern California get ravaged by fire, next it is water (rain), I wonder if frogs are next? |
| 16:24.30 | dijenerate | the sins of the fathers? |
| 16:24.59 | dijenerate | never peggeed u for religious TOmW?:) |
| 16:25.36 | T0mW | spiritual is more correct |
| 16:25.45 | dijenerate | ah... |
| 16:26.47 | dijenerate | well S. Cali is in no way innocent so far as the climate change is concerned |
| 16:27.01 | dijenerate | but then none of us is |
| 16:27.32 | T0mW | I was out there many years ago and had considered living there (1970s), I am glad that I did not. |
| 16:28.11 | T0mW | I'm too much of a hillbilly |
| 16:28.49 | T0mW | what are you going to use zfs on the nslu2 for? |
| 16:29.03 | T0mW | monster wifi file server? |
| 16:29.39 | T0mW | heh, monster wifi mpeg4 server? |
| 16:30.05 | dijenerate | no network file server and online backup storage |
| 16:31.03 | dijenerate | it's currently my internal, apache, ftp, and print server |
| 17:07.53 | dijenerate | found my answer... sorta, zfs-fuse is the best I can do for now |
| 17:34.28 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:44.27 | *** join/#edev Dr{Who} (n=mathewss@71-222-16-170.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 17:55.36 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: greetings |
| 17:56.14 | prpplague | samuelr: what cookin? had any more time to tinker with the hammer? |
| 17:59.19 | Dr{Who} | any kernel hackers in da house? i need some ideas on how to continue debugging my init process. |
| 17:59.45 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: i'm a printk freak |
| 17:59.56 | Dr{Who} | cool been doing a lot of that |
| 18:00.10 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: what kind of init problem are you having? |
| 18:00.17 | Dr{Who} | i have a simple kernel x86 init is a simple hello world |
| 18:00.39 | Dr{Who} | boots perfect on qemu and an intel 800mhz board but on my via epia 5000 init does not fire. |
| 18:00.49 | Dr{Who} | the process is loaded but never seems to get going. |
| 18:01.21 | Dr{Who} | i tooled my kerenl with kdb to help and i see some differences in what happens from intel or qemu and the via |
| 18:02.01 | Dr{Who} | on the via i end up with do_notify_resume with 0x04 or TIF_SIGPENDING being called over and over and over |
| 18:02.11 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: ahh i don't do much x86 any more |
| 18:02.56 | Dr{Who} | ya not arm : ( sorry but i figure the debugging ideas would be simmilar |
| 18:03.11 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: who different world |
| 18:03.14 | prpplague | whole |
| 18:03.23 | Dr{Who} | ahh |
| 18:03.35 | prpplague | as is mips and ppc |
| 18:04.56 | Dr{Who} | ya i have done some arm and mips and such work. i know the diff : c ) but still kernel debugging is kernel debugging : c ) |
| 18:05.50 | Dr{Who} | any good channels where i may find an intel kerenl hacker? tried elinux... looks dead over there. |
| 18:06.24 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:06.28 | Dr{Who} | this does seem like it is x86 specific in signaling or exception handeling.. but its just a guess. |
| 18:06.33 | SpeedEvil | lkml? |
| 18:06.50 | Dr{Who} | ya i fear posting to that list ; c ) |
| 18:11.29 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: try oftc.net on the #kernelnewbies channel |
| 18:11.38 | prpplague | despite the name alot of guru's hang there |
| 18:12.46 | Dr{Who} | k ill try that. |
| 18:14.28 | Dr{Who} | what is with this ## stuff? |
| 18:16.33 | SpeedEvil | # channels are official |
| 18:16.52 | SpeedEvil | #linux would be if linus or someone was involved with the channel |
| 18:21.27 | Dr{Who} | umm lovely... back in the day you got the channel and held it first come first serve... we didnt want to decide who was official or not that would say we were monitoring or controlling the channels.. not a place any irc network owner wants to do. |
| 18:21.47 | SpeedEvil | well - that's what freenode have chosen. |
| 18:22.01 | SpeedEvil | and they seem to have decided that tehy do want to. |
| 20:22.37 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 22:32.44 | *** join/#edev _ccjoe_ (n=ccjoe@75-169-16-90.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:57.48 | *** join/#edev john280z (n=johnm@user-0ce2hq5.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:43.22 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp229.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 23:58.19 | *** part/#edev john280z (n=johnm@user-0ce2hq5.cable.mindspring.com) |