IRC log for #edev on 20080106

`00:28.51`	`*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp069.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)`
`00:55.09`	`prpplague`	`ho ho hum`
`00:57.27`	`*** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16)`
`01:14.27`	`prpplague`	`CP\|home: i'm still surprised you think that logo wouldn't be a good choice for robotics programming`
`01:29.16`	`*** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`01:47.42`	`*** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`01:49.54`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: greetings`
`01:49.58`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: make it to parts?`
`01:51.28`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, I did!`
`01:51.44`	`RobotGuy`	`I just got home from dinner after the meeting.`
`01:52.18`	`RobotGuy`	`It went from 10:30 AM to around 3:00 PM (some had filtered out before then)`
`01:52.42`	`RobotGuy`	`I stayed until only the President of the club was left and chatted with him a bit.`
`01:53.03`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: wow`
`01:53.07`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: long day eh?`
`01:53.18`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: you show your hammer kit ?`
`01:53.18`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, it was, but it was definitely worth it.`
`01:53.51`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, I got some time to talk about Hammer. :D:D There is interest. PARTS is starting a RoboMagellan project.`
`01:54.21`	`RobotGuy`	`They were really impressed that a full Linux system can be on a 40-pin DIP.`
`01:54.35`	`prpplague`	`godd deal`
`01:54.40`	`prpplague`	`robomagellan?`
`01:54.56`	`RobotGuy`	`http://www.robogames.net/rules/magellan.shtml`
`01:55.18`	`RobotGuy`	`It's like a mini DARPA Grand Challenge.`
`01:55.42`	`RobotGuy`	`Limited to 50 pound max weight robots`
`01:56.17`	`RobotGuy`	`They want to create a RoboMagellan Kit that anyone can put together and customize.`
`01:57.44`	`RobotGuy`	`Robert Sheer (Club President) is interested in Hammer for one of his robots.`
`02:05.13`	`prpplague`	`ahh`
`02:07.39`	`prpplague`	`price money associated?`
`02:07.46`	`prpplague`	`prize`
`02:08.55`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: any info on robert sheer? i.e. a web site?`
`02:09.16`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe what did they say when you told them you get your kit for free? hehe`
`02:12.44`	`RobotGuy`	`Well, OK, I did slip a bit, had not planned to tell him I got mine for free.`
`02:12.48`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: interesting project`
`02:13.05`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`02:13.14`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe`
`02:13.20`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: np`
`02:13.32`	`RobotGuy`	`E-Mail: <rfscheer@speakeasy.net>`
`02:14.02`	`prpplague`	`no web page of any of his bots?`
`02:14.24`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, he has a cool website. I am looking up the link - I forgot to bookmark him`
`02:14.45`	`prpplague`	`np`
`02:15.15`	`prpplague`	`i'd love to work on these types of project but i simply can divert from my handheld development`
`02:15.37`	`*** join/#edev ccjoe (n=ccjoe@75-169-14-207.slkc.qwest.net)`
`02:19.53`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: wow parts has a whole lot of competions`
`02:21.13`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the whole homebrew robotics groups reminds me of the days back of the early homebrew pc groups`
`02:23.11`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, they get back to actually making their stuff and customizing, which I really like.`
`02:23.26`	`RobotGuy`	`Robert travels the RoboMagellan "circuit"`
`02:23.42`	`prpplague`	`interesting`
`02:24.35`	`prpplague`	`ahh dave hylands is into magellans as well`
`02:25.08`	`prpplague`	`ahh and david andersen too`
`02:25.13`	`RobotGuy`	`I know. I am VERY interested also, but there is no way I can see being able to build a RoboMagellan capable robot on my income.`
`02:25.14`	`prpplague`	`he's out of the dallas group`
`02:25.46`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: probably could do it for around $600`
`02:25.49`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, David Andersen has JBot - one of my favorite robots. His work has inspired some of mine.`
`02:25.53`	`prpplague`	`that would be my guess`
`02:27.42`	`prpplague`	`looks like its a pretty tight group`
`02:27.48`	`prpplague`	`guess everyone knows everyone`
`02:28.07`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, it looks like that to me also. I will join the club next month.`
`02:28.20`	`prpplague`	`ahh`
`02:28.46`	`RobotGuy`	`I got a raised eyebrow from Robert when I mentioned a possible Hammer bot board. His comment was "Now, THAT's interesting.."`
`02:29.10`	`RobotGuy`	`He said he might use Hammer on one of his bots.`
`02:29.14`	`prpplague`	`yea a gps receive and an array of sensors`
`02:29.21`	`prpplague`	`plus the base and power supply`
`02:29.24`	`RobotGuy`	`Yep`
`02:30.12`	`RobotGuy`	`I just can't afford some of the necessary parts for a RoboMagellan bot, but I am asking myself why not a distributed architecture based around Hammer and maybe PICS and/or ARM7 MCUs.`
`02:30.37`	`RobotGuy`	`That's what I am going to test out on W.A.L.T.E.R>`
`02:31.04`	`RobotGuy`	`I have an LPC2148 header board as well as an LPC2148 proto board.`
`02:32.05`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea thats kinda what we were looking at doing`
`02:32.13`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: have a series of very very generic modules`
`02:32.20`	`RobotGuy`	`Right!`
`02:32.24`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: except we were looking at using the attiny`
`02:32.48`	`RobotGuy`	`Robert prefers AVRs`
`02:33.00`	`prpplague`	`hmm, i wonder if 10m accuracy is enough`
`02:33.16`	`RobotGuy`	`I have more PICs and dsPICs to last me awhile.`
`02:33.54`	`prpplague`	`http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=211`
`02:34.16`	`prpplague`	`yea avr's are more cost effective for OEM's`
`02:35.13`	`RobotGuy`	`I can't get AVRs for free. :(`
`02:35.54`	`RobotGuy`	`I think I could like AVRs, and they can have both I2C and SPI active at the same time. PICs can't unless you get into the 18F87J50 and such which are QFP/QFN`
`02:35.59`	`prpplague`	`hehe, we can't get anything for free, hehe`
`02:36.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: what pic do you normally use?`
`02:36.24`	`RobotGuy`	`That's why I am using PICs now. Very cost effective for me. :D`
`02:37.24`	`RobotGuy`	`18F4620, 18F4550, 18F4680, 18F2620, 18F2550, 18F2680, dsPIC30F4011, dsPIC30F4012`
`02:38.05`	`RobotGuy`	`I am adding two 4012's to my LPC2140 proto board and the Hammer carrier board as soon as I get it to run off battery.`
`02:38.12`	`prpplague`	`eh gads those are big`
`02:38.25`	`RobotGuy`	`Well, before then, since I have the walwart for the Hammer. :)`
`02:38.35`	`prpplague`	`HOLY COW and expensive`
`02:38.41`	`RobotGuy`	`The 46xx are 40 pin and 26xx are 28 pin`
`02:38.55`	`RobotGuy`	`Really? That expensive?`
`02:39.10`	`prpplague`	`oh yea`
`02:39.30`	`prpplague`	`18f4620 in qty of 100 is around $5.60`
`02:39.42`	`RobotGuy`	`More expensive than an AVR of similar capability?`
`02:39.53`	`prpplague`	`attiny13 in the qty of 100 is $0.73`
`02:40.20`	`RobotGuy`	`What PIC would it be equivalent to?`
`02:40.56`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: no they aren't exactly the same as far as features`
`02:41.09`	`RobotGuy`	`Spark Fun has some interesting Atmega boards.`
`02:41.15`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the attiny is just a 8 pin package`
`02:41.40`	`RobotGuy`	`Oh, OK.`
`02:41.40`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: but if you are using it as a module, controlling a single servo and a single sensor`
`02:41.40`	`*** join/#edev flyback- (n=ubuntu@c-24-131-197-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)`
`02:41.44`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: it would be fine`
`02:41.51`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: don't start`
`02:41.59`	`flyback-`	`huh?`
`02:42.11`	`flyback-`	`you got crabs again or what?`
`02:42.15`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, it would be cool then. The Open Servo guys just switched to using the Atmega168`
`02:42.27`	`flyback-`	`you talking about standard off the shelf rc servo's?`
`02:42.31`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: open servo?`
`02:42.42`	`RobotGuy`	`www.openservo.org`
`02:43.02`	`flyback-`	`hmm`
`02:43.23`	`flyback-`	`you talking about standard rc servo's?`
`02:43.32`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, standard R/C servos`
`02:43.41`	`flyback-`	`I seen a canuckload of hacks for those lately`
`02:43.42`	`flyback-`	`pretty nice`
`02:43.50`	`prpplague`	`atmega168 isn't too bad, around $2.50`
`02:43.51`	`flyback-`	`you might want to idle in #robptics and #electronics also`
`02:43.54`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: na :P`
`02:44.02`	`flyback-`	`they are pretty fast too I hear`
`02:44.22`	`RobotGuy`	`The project I am working on for Lynxmotion consists of a BRAT with Hitec HS-457HB servos`
`02:44.25`	`flyback-`	`probably a good mcu to offload "braindead functions" for the hammer`
`02:44.29`	`flyback-`	`such as keyboard key scanning etc`
`02:44.38`	`flyback-`	`mmm hitec`
`02:44.55`	`flyback-`	`they got some insteresting use of plastic technology in some of their servo's`
`02:45.04`	`flyback-`	`I was reading their spec sheets and did some research`
`02:45.17`	`flyback-`	`the whole subject of gearing is insteresting`
`02:45.28`	`flyback-`	`people think "oh well metal gears are the strongest and best type"`
`02:45.32`	`flyback-`	`survery says`
`02:45.34`	`flyback-`	`X X X`
`02:45.53`	`RobotGuy`	`I have to isolate a problem with the BRAT. I don't know if it is servos, the bot board, or software. I've never trusted the Atom PRO IDE.`
`02:45.56`	`flyback-`	`the post office was losing metal gears like crazy in their sorting machines cause the paper fiber mixes with the grease`
`02:46.15`	`RobotGuy`	`Open Servo is VERY cool.`
`02:46.16`	`flyback-`	`they got much better life out of types of plastic gears that could be teflon impregnated etc`
`02:46.41`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: sounds like you might have just stumbled open another market group for hasmmer :P`
`02:46.54`	`RobotGuy`	`Open Servo?`
`02:47.05`	`flyback-`	`well that and robotics in general`
`02:47.12`	`flyback-`	`in that group`
`02:47.34`	`RobotGuy`	`I want very much to use Open Servos in my robots, but I don't want to mess with the conversion.`
`02:48.05`	`flyback-`	`ugh`
`02:48.20`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: you found any online outlets that sell wigglers cheap ready to go`
`02:48.32`	`flyback-`	`since I am still too itiminated over this stuff`
`02:48.43`	`RobotGuy`	`I don't do parallel port programmers.`
`02:48.48`	`flyback-`	`why`
`02:48.54`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: sparkfun and tincantools`
`02:49.03`	`flyback-`	`oh you guys sell them now?`
`02:49.03`	`RobotGuy`	`I read of too many problems with them and I don't need that frustration.`
`02:49.04`	`flyback-`	`cool`
`02:49.12`	`flyback-`	`RobotGuy: what do you recommend then :P`
`02:49.38`	`flyback-`	`The Flyswatter JTAG board is a low cost USB based JTAG programmer for the Hammer CPU board. It can be used with all ARM processors that are supported by OpenOCD. It is based upon FTDI's popular FT2232 USB UART/FIFO IC. The Flyswatter provides a standard JTAG interface as well as a standard RS2.`
`02:49.43`	`RobotGuy`	`Serial port or USB type programmers. I have an Olimex ICD2 for programming/debugging PICs`
`02:49.52`	`flyback-`	`this is a jtag son`
`02:49.53`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: what?`
`02:50.01`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: sorry bad pun`
`02:50.03`	`flyback-`	`fly swatter`
`02:50.24`	`flyback-`	`nm people usually think my nick has to do with bugs`
`02:50.49`	`flyback-`	`hmm mabye that would be a good first project`
`02:50.55`	`RobotGuy`	`I think transformers when I see your nick. Power transformers, not the bots.`
`02:51.03`	`flyback-`	`come up with a simple way to test old nicd/nimh cells to get runtime and amps left in them`
`02:51.19`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: My buildroot finished. :D:D`
`02:51.30`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea, looking at what i'd want to do, attiny26 mind do well for some modules`
`02:51.42`	`flyback-`	`hmm I guess being this channel is arm based if I got a buildroot env going for my palm I could bs with you guys`
`02:52.00`	`RobotGuy`	`I will have to look at those tiny MCUs.`
`02:52.08`	`flyback-`	`yeah they are nice`
`02:52.09`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: i can't spend a whole lot of time on the robotics dev since its not our prime target and i have to not stray too far from my dev for handhelds`
`02:52.10`	`flyback-`	`cheap too`
`02:52.23`	`flyback-`	`prpplague:`
`02:52.27`	`RobotGuy`	`The thing that does attract me to AVRs is there are Linux tools available to work with them.`
`02:52.31`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: as soon as i have the nail complete, i'll start hacking up something for the bot board`
`02:52.31`	`flyback-`	`what about a subboard for hammer or handhelds :P`
`02:52.42`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: I understand about the development stuff.`
`02:52.45`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: what?`
`02:52.59`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: nm`
`02:53.03`	`flyback-`	`freaking headache`
`02:53.13`	`RobotGuy`	`Cool. I very much want to see a nice bot board for Hammer. :D:D`
`02:53.36`	`RobotGuy`	`What is Sledge Hammer?`
`02:54.12`	`prpplague`	`attiny26 is about $1.20 in qty of 100`
`02:54.54`	`flyback-`	`nice`
`02:55.17`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: you know dell uses 1 wire in their newer laptop ac adatords`
`02:55.25`	`flyback-`	`took me ages to figure wtf was wrong with the power center pin :P`
`02:55.55`	`RobotGuy`	`Hmmmm, attiny26 is available in a DIP20`
`02:56.09`	`flyback-`	`mmm`
`02:56.31`	`flyback-`	`wtf`
`02:56.32`	`flyback-`	`wow`
`02:56.34`	`flyback-`	`it has a adc`
`02:56.42`	`flyback-`	`whoa`
`02:56.47`	`flyback-`	`10 input adc`
`02:56.59`	`RobotGuy`	`I'm thinking more along the lines of an Atmega32, Atmega168 or Atmega128 if I was going to do stuff with AVRs.`
`02:57.24`	`RobotGuy`	`The new Lynxmotion SSC32 chip is an Atmega168.`
`02:57.24`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: did you ever get a chance to play with that disney pixter knock off`
`03:01.16`	`RobotGuy`	`Hmmmmmm, Attiny26 does look interesting.. I2C/SPI (choose one) and lots of analog inputs.`
`03:01.46`	`RobotGuy`	`I could handle my 3-axis accelerometer and some Sharp IR rangers with one Attiny26`
`03:02.24`	`flyback-`	`sdcc`
`03:02.27`	`flyback-`	`gcc-avr`
`03:02.32`	`prpplague`	`one question at a time, hehe`
`03:02.46`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: sledge hammer is the big brother to the hammer board`
`03:03.07`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: That's kind of vague.. ;)`
`03:03.17`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe`
`03:03.44`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: basically the hammer with more i/o and some addtional features such as hardware supported suspend/resume`
`03:03.57`	`prpplague`	`http://www.elinux.org/Sledgehammer_Board`
`03:03.59`	`RobotGuy`	`Ah, OK.`
`03:04.14`	`prpplague`	`http://www.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board`
`03:04.16`	`prpplague`	`oops`
`03:04.32`	`RobotGuy`	`Such a tease! :P`
`03:04.52`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: we are waiting to see how the hammer does before starting production on the sledge hammer`
`03:05.04`	`prpplague`	`the atmega32 and 64 are getting very expensive`
`03:05.06`	`RobotGuy`	`Understood. I so want to see Hammer go bigtime!`
`03:05.17`	`prpplague`	`basically the same cost as those pics you are looking at`
`03:05.35`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: avr's are completely supported under linux`
`03:05.36`	`RobotGuy`	`Robert Sheer asked me if I am going to bring W.A.L.T.E.R. to the next meeting.`
`03:05.42`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe`
`03:06.18`	`RobotGuy`	`W.A.L.T.E.R. is not operational right now due to lack of memory on processor.`
`03:06.29`	`RobotGuy`	`Got to get W.A.L.T.E.R. Hammered soon.`
`03:07.18`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: almost all of our handhelds have a atmel avr inside`
`03:07.29`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: even our new handheld design include one`
`03:07.38`	`RobotGuy`	`Handhelds? I did catch that reference earlier. I must check.`
`03:07.53`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: so this was your first PARTS meeting?`
`03:08.32`	`RobotGuy`	`Yes, it was. My New Year's resolution: To get involved with PARTS. I don't go out much, but this will get me out at least once a month. :)`
`03:09.34`	`RobotGuy`	`PARTS is also getting involved with the local SmallTalk User's Group. There is a combined meeting on the 8th.`
`03:11.10`	`RobotGuy`	`It would be cool to Hammer my power wheel chair at some point. :D`
`03:11.37`	`RobotGuy`	`I have WAY too many ideas for one brain to hold.`
`03:12.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: i work for a company that primarily designs industrial handhelds`
`03:12.34`	`RobotGuy`	`Ahhhh, OK.`
`03:12.59`	`RobotGuy`	`Is Tin Can Tools a part of that in some way?`
`03:17.50`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: AML, the company that does the handhelds, creates lots of cool designs as part of the development process for commercial products`
`03:18.21`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: however, after the product is complete, all of the development designs go on the shelf or get throw away, never used again`
`03:19.33`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: we had lots of cool designs, so we decided to start a "sister company" that would attempt to market some of the development boards that we not being used`
`03:20.08`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: thus tincantools`
`03:20.28`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hammer is the first of a series of development designs that we have, and will try to market`
`03:20.29`	`RobotGuy`	`Oh, COOL!`
`03:20.51`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the designs are done, complete and working, just waiting on the decision to make then in quantity`
`03:21.13`	`RobotGuy`	`Ooooooooh, this is exciting.`
`03:22.12`	`*** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com)`
`03:24.15`	`prpplague`	`uh that trouble maker landley just showed up, shhhhh act like we weren;t talking bad about him`
`03:24.25`	`landley`	`Hmmm?`
`03:24.48`	`landley`	`prpplague: http://landley.net/thyme.html`
`03:24.58`	`landley`	`Not really much more material than last time, but better layout.`
`03:25.04`	`landley`	`Ok, and a lot of minor tweaks...`
`03:25.32`	`RobotGuy`	`I have to make some updates to my website too. Robert Sheer is watching W.A.L.T.E.R.`
`03:26.11`	`prpplague`	`landley: whats cookin?`
`03:26.50`	`landley`	`prpplague: Dunno. Stuff.`
`03:26.55`	`landley`	`Got readlink -f into toybox.`
`03:27.00`	`landley`	`Poked at the nail board docs a bit.`
`03:27.33`	`landley`	`Set up an apache server on loopback on my laptop mirroring my web page.`
`03:27.51`	`landley`	`So I can actually _see_ the background images and ssi and such. And the mercurial repositories, when not online.`
`03:28.16`	`landley`	`Poking at the gcc wrapper in firmware linux to make it actually relocatable on x86-64. It's segfaulting at the moment.`
`03:28.53`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`03:29.02`	`RobotGuy`	`BRB`
`03:29.38`	`prpplague`	`landley: i think you are jinx'n me, i've not had any problems irc all day till you showed up`
`03:29.54`	`landley`	`Dunno.`
`03:29.54`	`prpplague`	`landley: whats cookin?`
`03:30.04`	`landley`	`I just said, right before you logged off. :)`
`03:30.12`	`landley`	`It's all in my blog. http://landley.net/notes.html`
`03:31.35`	`landley`	`I only updated it when I got online a few minutes ago. :)`
`03:31.50`	`landley`	`I edit it in vi through the day, but only rsync when I get on the net.`
`03:32.01`	`*** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`03:32.45`	`landley`	`I rsync my "www" directory up to my web page, and I've got it set up so all my mercurial repositories and my blog and such live under there, with symlinks from elsewhere if it's more convenient.`
`03:33.02`	`landley`	`For example, a development working directory can have .hg be a symlink, and mercurial's fine with that.`
`03:33.26`	`landley`	`(It's less fine with a directory in your working directory, such as www, being a symlink.)`
`03:33.41`	`landley`	`It sort of works, but "hg diff" and "hg commit" and such won't see stuff in there unless you go "hg diff www/*"`
`03:33.46`	`landley`	`Just bugged the mercurial list about it...`
`03:35.23`	`prpplague`	`landley: just a quick note, the nail will have two push buttons as well as the leds`
`03:36.03`	`prpplague`	`landley: looking pretty darn good`
`03:38.22`	`landley`	`Thanks.`
`03:38.26`	`landley`	`It's still only about 1/5 done...`
`03:38.44`	`landley`	`The phrase "beepy thing" probably tips you off that there are a few rough edges in there.`
`03:38.52`	`landley`	`The XXX bits are all "come back and look at this" regex markers.`
`03:42.20`	`prpplague`	`ho ho hum`
`03:42.25`	`prpplague`	`too much work too little time`
`03:42.51`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea i figured as much`
`03:43.03`	`*** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16)`
`03:46.16`	`prpplague`	`landley: getting lots of headhunters calling?`
`03:46.25`	`landley`	`Friday I did.`
`03:46.40`	`landley`	`It was all the same headhunter outfit, I finally broke down and said "ok, a _short_ term`
`03:46.55`	`landley`	`contract in california, I'd be willing to look at", and they waved my resume all around their office...`
`03:47.11`	`landley`	`3 months with per diem. 6 at the outside.`
`03:47.48`	`prpplague`	`landley: so you'd travel to ca to do the work?`
`03:47.54`	`prpplague`	`or telecommute?`
`03:48.03`	`landley`	`Travel to ca. TEMPORARILY.`
`03:48.20`	`prpplague`	`right thats whay i figured`
`03:48.26`	`prpplague`	`landley: fade go with you?`
`03:48.34`	`landley`	`Probably not. Might visit.`
`03:48.40`	`landley`	`her job's here.`
`03:48.45`	`prpplague`	`ahh`
`03:48.47`	`landley`	`So are the cats.`
`03:48.49`	`landley`	`(4 of them.)`
`03:48.49`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`03:48.58`	`landley`	`She telecommutes to her job, but being in town she can show up in person once per week.`
`03:49.05`	`landley`	`Nice option to have.`
`03:53.09`	`prpplague`	`landley: thoughts on an editor for toybox?`
`03:54.58`	`landley`	`prpplague: haven't really planned that far ahead.`
`03:55.11`	`prpplague`	`landley: np, just curious`
`03:55.19`	`landley`	`busybox has a vi implementation.`
`03:55.23`	`prpplague`	`indeed`
`03:55.41`	`landley`	`I'd like something I can slap a couple different UIs on.`
`03:56.27`	`landley`	`In theory you just read the data into a line buffer.`
`03:56.45`	`landley`	`That's the core of it, and being able to edit stuff.`
`03:56.56`	`landley`	`Probably an array of pointers to newline terminated paragraphs, or some such.`
`03:57.09`	`landley`	`(A big char array for the whole mess gets unwieldy fast.)`
`03:58.03`	`prpplague`	`landley: where does rm and mv fall on your dev list?`
`03:58.53`	`landley`	`Then there are the functions to display the data with appropriate wordwrapping and top/bottom of screen.`
`03:58.58`	`landley`	`90% of that's the same as "less".`
`03:59.08`	`landley`	`rm, mv, and cp are fairly soon on the dev list.`
`03:59.22`	`prpplague`	`landley: btw, i see you have nc and netcat both listed`
`03:59.58`	`landley`	`Now that I've got loopfiles(), functions that iterate over a list of files become much easier to do...`
`04:00.07`	`landley`	`nc and netcat are synonyms for the same command.`
`04:00.23`	`landley`	`Various things except the name "nc", but "netcat" is far more descriptive...`
`04:00.47`	`landley`	`Right now I'm banging on "sed", because that's a portability land mine.`
`04:01.06`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: What am I missing to be able to do make zImage?`
`04:01.11`	`landley`	`The main blocking issue to building stuff on macosx? Their sed doesn't use "-r" to enable extended regular expression syntax. It uses -E instead.`
`04:01.13`	`landley`	`Sigh.`
`04:01.26`	`landley`	`RobotGuy: install gzip?`
`04:01.39`	`RobotGuy`	`I have gzip`
`04:01.42`	`prpplague`	`ok was just curious if there was minor difference or just same app`
`04:01.49`	`landley`	`Same app.`
`04:01.56`	`landley`	`It's a toysh/sh thing.`
`04:02.01`	`RobotGuy`	make: *** No rule to make target `zImage'. Stop.
`04:02.14`	`landley`	`RobotGuy: not all targets have zImage.`
`04:02.20`	`landley`	`Some run vmlinux directly, some use other names.`
`04:02.28`	`landley`	`Which one are you building?`
`04:03.07`	`landley`	`Also, keep in mind you may be building arch/$ARCH/boot/zImage, so the name "zImage" may not match that.`
`04:03.26`	`landley`	`Just do "make" without an explicit target name and see if it builds a zImage.`
`04:03.50`	`RobotGuy`	`I am trying to build a new rootfs and kernel.`
`04:04.38`	`RobotGuy`	`I am reading the Wiki howto buildroot.`
`04:05.47`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: one sec`
`04:06.04`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: lets start with, did you buildroot make complete?`
`04:06.50`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: Yes`
`04:07.16`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: so, next thing is to extract the kernel tar ball shipped on the cd`
`04:07.52`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: you can extract into the same dir you extracted buildroot in, but not in the buildroot dir`
`04:08.33`	`landley`	`prpplague: did I point you to http://landley.net/code/toybox/code.html`
`04:08.44`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea that wiki is incomplete i have updates for it, but they are moving the wiki to a new server in the next couple of days`
`04:08.48`	`landley`	`That's not complete yet either...`
`04:10.20`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`04:10.33`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea that wiki is incomplete i have updates for it, but they are moving the wiki to a new server in the next couple of days`
`04:10.38`	`landley`	`prpplague: did I point you to http://landley.net/code/toybox/code.html`
`04:10.41`	`landley`	`That's not complete yet either...`
`04:10.44`	`landley`	`Yea cursor up. :)`
`04:10.54`	`RobotGuy`	`OK, I extracted it to my hammer dir (above buildroot)`
`04:10.56`	`landley`	`Or possibly yay.`
`04:11.21`	`prpplague`	`landley: ahh good`
`04:11.31`	`prpplague`	`landley: that'll help with the experimenting`
`04:11.42`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: still there?`
`04:11.49`	`RobotGuy`	`I feel so dumb now. I have built Linux kernels before.`
`04:12.10`	`RobotGuy`	`Right here`
`04:12.24`	`*** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ`
`04:12.45`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`04:13.10`	`landley`	`I'm honestly not the one doing that to you. Really.`
`04:13.17`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`04:13.22`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`04:14.14`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ok you get the tarball extracted?`
`04:14.28`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Yep, in my hammer dir above buildroot`
`04:14.46`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ok cd to the linux dir then`
`04:15.05`	`RobotGuy`	`Is this like a standard kernel build?`
`04:15.26`	`landley`	`There's only what, 100 applets in that thing?`
`04:15.31`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, OK, there`
`04:15.33`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea`
`04:15.52`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: you'll need to add the toolchain to your path`
`04:16.54`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: like this: export PATH="$PATH:/path/to/buildroot/target_arm/staging_dir/bin"`
`04:17.12`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: of course you'll need to put the correct path`
`04:17.47`	`prpplague`	`landley: its totally doable`
`04:18.13`	`prpplague`	`landley: but the main issue just the number of hours need to test on multiple platforms`
`04:18.44`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Something might be haywire with my buildroot. I can't see which path to add (no bin dir)`
`04:19.08`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: do an ls in buildroot and paste it`
`04:19.49`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 3 linuxguy staff 72 2008-01-04 20:04 binaries`
`04:19.50`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 7 linuxguy staff 200 2008-01-04 22:42 build_arm`
`04:19.50`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 19322 2007-08-20 23:00 Config.in`
`04:19.50`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 2 linuxguy staff 496 2008-01-05 20:04 dl`
`04:19.50`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 3 linuxguy staff 512 2007-11-19 15:26 docs`
`04:19.50`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 14015 2007-08-21 03:33 Hammer-config`
`04:19.53`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 12092 2007-08-21 04:51 Makefile`
`04:19.54`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 220 linuxguy staff 5704 2007-11-19 15:26 package`
`04:19.56`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 2 linuxguy staff 144 2007-11-19 15:26 project`
`04:19.58`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 3 linuxguy staff 72 2008-01-04 20:04 project_build_arm`
`04:20.00`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 19 linuxguy staff 544 2007-11-19 15:26 target`
`04:20.02`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 282 2007-08-20 23:00 TODO`
`04:20.04`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 13 linuxguy staff 472 2007-11-19 15:27 toolchain`
`04:20.06`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 19 linuxguy staff 656 2008-01-05 20:04 toolchain_build_arm`
`04:20.10`	`landley`	`prpplague: hence firmware linux being a test platform. :)`
`04:21.14`	`prpplague`	`landley: indeed`
`04:21.24`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: project_build_arm`
`04:21.40`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: cd to that dir and give me an ls`
`04:21.45`	`landley`	`Also, it's not quite as bad if you write it with running in multiple places in mind from day one...`
`04:21.55`	`prpplague`	`landley: indeed`
`04:22.09`	`prpplague`	`landley: was busybox ever that way?`
`04:22.28`	`landley`	`The gnu people think "portability" means must run on solaris and ancient HP mainframes that do binary coded decimal arithmetic.`
`04:22.38`	`landley`	`prpplague: busybox started as a utility for the debian boot disk.`
`04:22.47`	`landley`	`And then Erik Andersen repurposed it for Lineo.`
`04:22.57`	`prpplague`	`landley: ahh, i couldn't remember if it was part if the uclinux stuff or not`
`04:23.02`	`landley`	`But the _problem_ with busybox was always that people kept taking code like e2fsprogs and bolting it on.`
`04:23.13`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea`
`04:23.18`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I have a Hammer dir in there`
`04:23.30`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: go ahead and cd to the Hammer dir`
`04:23.51`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 31 linuxguy staff 1536 2008-01-04 22:41 busybox-1.6.1`
`04:23.51`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 13 linuxguy staff 336 2008-01-04 22:42 root`
`04:24.51`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hmm`
`04:25.07`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: cd back up to buildroot then cd down into project`
`04:25.21`	`landley`	`Doing portability right means figuring out what's going to vary and what _isn't_.`
`04:25.35`	`prpplague`	`landley: indeed`
`04:25.36`	`landley`	`The gnu guys erred too much on the side of EVERYTHING CHANGES! (Everybody panic!)`
`04:25.45`	`prpplague`	`landley: hehe`
`04:25.57`	`landley`	`Me, I can go "Linux. Right. We do LP64. We have c99..."`
`04:26.26`	`landley`	`Judiciously add in MacOS X. Maybe a few other things.`
`04:26.31`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 661 2007-08-20 23:00 Config.in`
`04:26.31`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 157 2007-08-20 23:00 Makefile.in`
`04:26.31`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 400 2007-08-20 23:00 project.mk`
`04:26.31`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot/project>`
`04:26.43`	`landley`	`But my code doesn't run on 64-bit windows (LLP64), and I'm fine with this.`
`04:27.02`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hmm, sounds like something didn't finish`
`04:27.05`	`landley`	`I don't care about cygwin either.`
`04:27.15`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, That's what I think too now.`
`04:27.16`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: cd back up to the buildroot dir and issue the make command`
`04:28.40`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I did and got an error right away.`
`04:28.49`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: what did ya get?`
`04:29.05`	`RobotGuy`	`Build system dependencies: Ok`
`04:29.05`	`RobotGuy`	`cp -dpf /src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/linux-2.6.22.1/.config`
`04:29.05`	`RobotGuy`	cp: missing destination file operand after `/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/linux-2.6.22.1/.config'
`04:29.05`	`RobotGuy`	Try `cp --help' for more information.
`04:29.05`	`RobotGuy`	`make: *** [/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/linux-2.6.22.1/.configured] Error 1`
`04:29.06`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot>`
`04:29.39`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: did you change something in the config file?`
`04:30.10`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Just the text banner. I am trying to put Python in.`
`04:31.04`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I think I screwed something up but don't know how I managed it.`
`04:31.05`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: not sure why its trying to build the stock 2.6.22.1 kernel`
`04:31.29`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I think I know and can fix it. hang on.`
`04:31.35`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: one sec`
`04:31.48`	`prpplague`	`ok`
`04:33.35`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I fixed it!`
`04:34.25`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I had checked kernel in the config, not realizing it was not a good thing.`
`04:34.57`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea, that builds the stock kernel`
`04:35.08`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: we have a seperate one for the hammer right now`
`04:35.18`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Now I know. :)`
`04:35.28`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the next release of the buildroot for the hammer in about two weeks with have the kernel included`
`04:35.44`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Are Hammer changes going to end up in the stock kernel distro?`
`04:36.13`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: we are debating that now`
`04:36.13`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Oh, OK.`
`04:36.45`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Wouldn't it be a good thing for everyone to have Hammer in the standard kernel distro?`
`04:36.53`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the arm maintaners have been less that interested for the last 6 months or so for "commercially" submitted patches`
`04:37.01`	`prpplague`	`s/that/than`
`04:37.15`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, They are stupid then, in my opinion.`
`04:38.11`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Form tincantools.org for Open Source. :D:D`
`04:38.58`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, You did pick up the other tincantools domains, didn't you??`
`04:39.14`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe, naw, its just a matter of time, if i spent 3 months trying to get the arm maintainers to accept a patch, thats 3 months of dev i could be doing for our customers`
`04:39.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea iirc, the boss did`
`04:39.42`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Good move! I have four thedynaplex and 6 hybotics domains now.`
`04:40.06`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: you buildroot still going?`
`04:40.40`	`RobotGuy`	`HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently`
`04:40.41`	`RobotGuy`	`Location: http://www.gnu.org/software/cgiccfiles/cgicc-3.2.3.tar.bz2 [following]`
`04:40.41`	`RobotGuy`	`--20:37:13-- http://www.gnu.org/software/cgiccfiles/cgicc-3.2.3.tar.bz2`
`04:40.41`	`RobotGuy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:40.41`	`RobotGuy`	`Resolving www.gnu.org... 199.232.41.10`
`04:40.41`	`RobotGuy`	`Connecting to www.gnu.org\|199.232.41.10\|:80... connected.`
`04:40.43`	`RobotGuy`	`HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found`
`04:41.09`	`RobotGuy`	`I guess I shouldn't add some stuff.`
`04:41.57`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea, you probably should re-copy the default config over`
`04:42.04`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: then do a: make oldconfig`
`04:42.10`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: then do a make`
`04:42.19`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: get the base buildroot running first`
`04:43.53`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, OK`
`04:45.15`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, It's going again. I am just anxious to start working on W.A.L.T.E.R. again.`
`04:45.23`	`prpplague`	`indeed`
`04:45.52`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: as the quote from "Contact" goes ... "small steps, small steps"`
`04:47.05`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I know, really I do. :D:D I would just really like to have something REAL COOL to show at PARTS next month.`
`04:48.05`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Well, I didn't get anymore errors. It finished as far as I can tell.`
`04:49.09`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ok cd to project_build_arm/Hammer`
`04:49.20`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: give me an ls`
`04:50.27`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 31 linuxguy staff 1536 2008-01-04 22:41 busybox-1.6.1`
`04:50.28`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 13 linuxguy staff 336 2008-01-04 22:42 root`
`04:50.28`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot/project_build_arm/Hammer>`
`04:51.41`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Should I start buildroot from scratch?`
`04:51.50`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ok back up to buildroot and cd to they binaries directory`
`04:52.25`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, OK`
`04:52.53`	`RobotGuy`	`Figures it would be me causing problems. :(`
`04:53.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: give me an ls of the binaries dir`
`04:53.41`	`RobotGuy`	`drwxr-xr-x 2 linuxguy staff 120 2008-01-04 22:42 Hammer`
`04:53.41`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot/binaries>`
`04:55.20`	`prpplague`	`go ahead and cd to Hammer`
`04:55.41`	`RobotGuy`	`OK`
`04:55.48`	`landley`	`So of course I try the easy way to get a mingw environment to test tinycc with, since I don't really care about mingw otherwise.`
`04:55.59`	`landley`	`I grab a prebuilt script from http://www.profv.de/mingw_cross_env/ and run it according to the instructions.`
`04:56.02`	`landley`	`"The easy way".`
`04:56.09`	`landley`	`And it explodes.`
`04:57.24`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 4855808 2008-01-05 20:46 rootfs.arm.ext2`
`04:57.24`	`RobotGuy`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 1092198 2008-01-05 20:46 rootfs.arm.ext2.gz`
`04:57.24`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot/binaries/Hammer>`
`04:58.04`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ok it built the roofs`
`04:58.14`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I see that.`
`04:58.16`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: cd back up to buildroot and issue this command`
`04:58.36`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: find . -name arm-linux-ulibc-gcc`
`04:58.45`	`*** join/#edev huaynac (n=huaynac@61.6.65.198)`
`04:58.48`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: thats a period in there`
`04:59.40`	`RobotGuy`	`-> find . -name arm-linux-ulibc-gcc -print`
`04:59.40`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot>`
`05:00.18`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: oops my bad type`
`05:00.21`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: typo`
`05:00.25`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: find . -name arm-linux-uclibc-gcc`
`05:00.31`	`prpplague`	`missed the c`
`05:00.55`	`*** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.111.182)`
`05:01.09`	`RobotGuy`	`-> find . -name arm-linux-uclibc-gcc -print`
`05:01.09`	`RobotGuy`	`./build_arm/staging_dir/bin/arm-linux-uclibc-gcc`
`05:01.09`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot>`
`05:01.42`	`prpplague`	`ok it completed the staging dir`
`05:01.48`	`RobotGuy`	`Good`
`05:02.00`	`prpplague`	`now you can add it to the path like this`
`05:02.23`	`prpplague`	`export PATH="$PATH:/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/staging_dir/bin"`
`05:02.25`	`RobotGuy`	`I know how to add to the PATH`
`05:02.50`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe, sorry, just making sure`
`05:03.40`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Is OK. I probably seem real stupid sometimes.`
`05:04.34`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Added the path.`
`05:05.15`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe, naw, just that if i assume something, it cases problems, better to spell it out`
`05:05.31`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: so now you can go back to your kernel source dir`
`05:05.32`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Correct.`
`05:05.43`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: copy over the hammer config`
`05:05.49`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: do a make oldconfig`
`05:05.55`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: then do a make zImage`
`05:06.05`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: should go pretty easy from there`
`05:06.52`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, It's prompting me for stuff. Hmmmm.`
`05:07.18`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: what's it prompting you for?`
`05:07.58`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Like I was doing menuconfig is what it looked like.`
`05:08.35`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: so you do a copy of the included config file to .config`
`05:08.39`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: then did make oldconfig`
`05:08.58`	`RobotGuy`	`It got a lot of "unexpected data" errors`
`05:09.21`	`RobotGuy`	`I copied Hammer-config to .config`
`05:10.22`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: but it came back to the shell prompt?`
`05:11.02`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Why is it going in arch/i386 ?`
`05:11.22`	`prpplague`	`it shouldn't be`
`05:12.38`	`RobotGuy`	`-> cp ../buildroot/Hammer-config .config`
`05:12.38`	`RobotGuy`	`linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/linux-2.6.22>`
`05:12.38`	`RobotGuy`	`-> make oldconfig`
`05:12.38`	`RobotGuy`	`scripts/kconfig/conf -o arch/i386/Kconfig`
`05:12.38`	`RobotGuy`	`.config:5:warning: unexpected data`
`05:12.38`	`RobotGuy`	`.config:10:warning: unexpected data`
`05:12.51`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: oh oh, sorry`
`05:12.55`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: wrong config`
`05:13.04`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: there is a seperate config for the kernel`
`05:13.05`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Whoops`
`05:13.52`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, On the CD?`
`05:14.51`	`RobotGuy`	`Better get some extra pads of paper.. :D:D`
`05:15.00`	`RobotGuy`	`I seem to be screwing up a lot.`
`05:16.12`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the config should be in the kernel source dir`
`05:16.21`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: but its also on the cd`
`05:16.55`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I copied over the one in the kernel dir. I'll re-unarchive the kernel`
`05:17.03`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: okie dokie`
`05:17.25`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: make sure you remove the dir first`
`05:18.01`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, First thing I did was remove the dir`
`05:18.09`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`05:18.59`	`RobotGuy`	`OK, so that has the proper .config already, right?`
`05:19.58`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: there should be a hammer-config in the kernel source dir`
`05:20.46`	`RobotGuy`	`hammer_l.gz ?`
`05:21.25`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the configs are in the binaries dir on the cd`
`05:22.12`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Not where I would have expected them, but maybe I am just off.`
`05:22.46`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea, i've got the cd reworked`
`05:22.55`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: you find it?`
`05:24.03`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I don't see it in /media/CDROM/hammer/binaries`
`05:24.41`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ok there should be a copy in the /src/hammer/linux-2.6.22 dir`
`05:24.55`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: should be marked as hammer-config`
`05:25.59`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Not there.`
`05:26.26`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hmm very odd`
`05:26.52`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Bad batch of CDs?`
`05:27.10`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: seems so`
`05:27.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: give me one sec to post the config file`
`05:28.49`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: check under the hammer docs dir on the cd, wonder if the got moved`
`05:32.26`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Just a bunch of PDFs (Yeah, I know I need to read those). :D`
`05:32.42`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`05:32.52`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: well i'm not sure whats going on there with the cd`
`05:33.04`	`prpplague`	`pulling from the office now`
`05:33.17`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, OK, the config SHOULD be in hammer/binaries?`
`05:33.26`	`prpplague`	`yea`
`05:33.58`	`RobotGuy`	`Definitely NOT there`
`05:34.24`	`prpplague`	`yea something broken`
`05:34.50`	`RobotGuy`	`I would have expected config files to be in hammer/source`
`05:35.55`	`RobotGuy`	`Logic: Configuring kernel source.. Config in hammer/source :D:D`
`05:36.29`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea, i've change it to be in source/configs`
`05:36.41`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Much more sensible IMO`
`05:37.10`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: uh i thought you had just stop taking prozac`
`05:37.18`	`flyback-`	`no paxil`
`05:37.25`	`RobotGuy`	`Cymbalta is my friend. :D`
`05:37.39`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: oh`
`05:37.48`	`flyback-`	`RobotGuy: I gave up a long time ago I think even God did`
`05:37.49`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: why did you stop taking paxil?`
`05:37.56`	`flyback-`	`cause I was sick of the nightmares looping`
`05:38.03`	`flyback-`	`imaging being chases by a angry car or train`
`05:38.08`	`flyback-`	`and just getting away`
`05:38.11`	`flyback-`	`only to get chased again`
`05:38.12`	`flyback-`	`over and over`
`05:38.20`	`flyback-`	`been going on 5+ yrs`
`05:38.25`	`flyback-`	`also I started paxil in 2002`
`05:38.26`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: your behavior was much better though for awhile`
`05:38.45`	`flyback-`	`in march 2003 was my first colon attack where I was rolling on the floor in a puddle of sweat from violent cramping`
`05:38.56`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: yeah but like every other thing before it`
`05:38.58`	`flyback-`	`always fails`
`05:39.20`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: too much info d00d`
`05:39.31`	`flyback-`	`SORRY but I was making a point what it did`
`05:39.50`	`flyback-`	`I broken down crying at work the other day over this girl in HS I took to the prom back in 92, graduated in 93`
`05:39.58`	`flyback-`	`stuff like that all coming back at me now`
`05:41.18`	`flyback-`	`oh well it's been fun prpplague thx for putting up with me`
`05:41.38`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: wellllll ok then good luck with taht`
`05:41.46`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: updating the wiki now`
`05:42.07`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: btw I didn't see the jtag link on hammer site`
`05:42.19`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, OK`
`05:42.43`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: ??`
`05:43.13`	`flyback-`	`I looked all over the site I asked you if anyone had any ready to go wigglers`
`05:43.22`	`flyback-`	`and you said sparkfun and tincantools`
`05:43.45`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: and you pointed out the flyswatter`
`05:43.51`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: wiki is updated`
`05:44.12`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: hmmm sparkfun has oled tft modules :)`
`05:44.16`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Software`
`05:44.20`	`flyback-`	`err oled and tft`
`05:44.41`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: no such thing as an oled tft`
`05:44.44`	`prpplague`	`flyback-: oh`
`05:44.45`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`05:44.46`	`flyback-`	`kinda pricey but nice has a serial interface`
`05:44.57`	`flyback-`	`http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8537`
`05:45.36`	`flyback-`	`man I can't believe all the cheap mems and gas sensors out there now`
`05:45.52`	`flyback-`	`pretty soon terrorists are going to have a real hard time against sensor nets :P`
`05:46.21`	`flyback-`	`cool for famers etc`
`05:46.41`	`flyback-`	`oh how cool`
`05:46.42`	`flyback-`	`http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8493`
`05:47.03`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hey quick question, you extracted the tarball off the cd right?`
`05:47.14`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: oh dude`
`05:47.16`	`flyback-`	`you will like this`
`05:47.18`	`flyback-`	`you will like this a lot`
`05:47.28`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Yes, the kernel tarball from the CD`
`05:48.01`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: and you applied the patch right?`
`05:48.37`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: I don't agree with him 100% on rotation wind generators are worthless in small scale but still neat`
`05:48.43`	`flyback-`	`he's since taken his idea to commercial projects`
`05:48.45`	`flyback-`	`such as`
`05:48.49`	`flyback-`	`SENSOR NETWORKS IN HVAC`
`05:48.52`	`flyback-`	`to power them without batteries`
`05:48.54`	`flyback-`	`http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4224763.html`
`05:49.08`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: sounds like the cd you got was foobared`
`05:49.17`	`flyback-`	`cause it cost them $$$$$$$$$$$ to replace batteries in hvac ductwork`
`05:49.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: gonna have to check into that monday`
`05:49.26`	`flyback-`	`espically in 100 story buildings etc`
`05:49.34`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, OK, well I was starting to think it was all me being dumb`
`05:49.41`	`flyback-`	`pretty smart idea`
`05:50.00`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: check, the linux-2.6.22/arch/arm/mach-s3c2410 directory`
`05:50.18`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: do an ls and see if you have a mach-tct_hammer.c file`
`05:50.24`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: watch that video`
`05:51.21`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: think this + supercaps + battery + hammer`
`05:53.14`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, *`
`05:53.15`	`RobotGuy`	`* Processor type and features`
`05:53.15`	`RobotGuy`	`*`
`05:53.15`	`RobotGuy`	`Tickless System (Dynamic Ticks) (NO_HZ) [N/y/?] (NEW)`
`05:54.19`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`05:54.41`	`flyback-`	`prpplague: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4224763.html`
`05:56.04`	`RobotGuy`	`He no gonna like what I have to tell him.`
`05:56.42`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`05:56.49`	`prpplague`	`hmm network problems`
`05:56.53`	`landley`	`Yay cheshire crossing issue 4.`
`05:56.59`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: anyway`
`05:57.03`	`landley`	`I should probably re-read the first three.`
`05:57.07`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: did you check that file?`
`05:57.13`	`RobotGuy`	`Is mach-s3c2410 the correct dir?`
`05:57.14`	`prpplague`	`landley: got your email`
`05:57.22`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea`
`05:57.38`	`landley`	`prpplague: Yeah, that info's mostly on the web page I pointed you at.`
`05:57.43`	`landley`	`Sent the email before I updated the web page.`
`05:57.58`	`prpplague`	`ahh`
`05:58.18`	`RobotGuy`	`Houston, we have a problem.. No mach-tct_hammer.c there.`
`05:58.35`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: ahh yea the cd you got is one of the first rev`
`05:58.47`	`RobotGuy`	`I am starting to think I got a standard distro kernel on this CD`
`05:58.48`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: i'll have to call the boss in the morning about it`
`05:59.01`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea it is, with a supplied patch`
`05:59.19`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: http://elinux.org/images/f/ff/Hammer-linux-2.6.22-09122007.diff.gz`
`05:59.26`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: grab that patch and apply it`
`05:59.48`	`RobotGuy`	`I need to apply a patch then.`
`05:59.52`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea`
`06:00.00`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: thats why the hammer-config wasn't there`
`06:00.01`	`RobotGuy`	`Now I do feel dumb`
`06:00.08`	`landley`	`prpplague: are you guys likely to do flyers?`
`06:00.11`	`prpplague`	`hehe, naw, my fault`
`06:00.20`	`landley`	`You may not have noticed that there are several "image" links in the web page I'm doing.`
`06:00.25`	`prpplague`	`landley: for the conferences?`
`06:00.32`	`landley`	`Alas, I can't photograph the hardware I haven't got. :)`
`06:00.38`	`landley`	`To have in general.`
`06:00.43`	`landley`	`Conferences yes.`
`06:00.49`	`landley`	`Also a PDF to send to anybody you want to interest in the thing.`
`06:00.58`	`landley`	`Flyers are nice. (Banans are good!)`
`06:01.04`	`landley`	`That's bananas.`
`06:01.17`	`landley`	`Random Dr. Who reference.`
`06:01.27`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`06:03.23`	`landley`	`You can link a pdf of a flyer from the web page, mail out one with each board, etc.`
`06:03.39`	`landley`	`Black and white flyers are a penny a piece if you print up a couple hundred of 'em.`
`06:03.48`	`landley`	`Single sided, anyway.`
`06:04.22`	`landley`	`Nice thing about having a flyer with a summary of the board and a web URL:`
`06:04.31`	`landley`	`A) if a coworker asks "what's this board you're playing with", you can hand 'em the flyer.`
`06:04.49`	`landley`	`B) If you lose or scratch the CD, the flyer has the address of the site to go to.`
`06:05.07`	`prpplague`	`landley: we have in house production for that kind of stuff at AML`
`06:05.08`	`RobotGuy`	`Says Hammer-linux-2.6.22-09122007.diff.gz.tar is not a tar archive.`
`06:05.14`	`landley`	`Flyers?`
`06:05.33`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Says Hammer-linux-2.6.22-09122007.diff.gz.tar is not a tar archive.`
`06:06.09`	`landley`	`When I start thinking in terms of marketing I tend to continue for a while.`
`06:06.14`	`landley`	`The whole "working based on momentum" thing.`
`06:06.26`	`landley`	`Marketing is a question of gentle pressure.`
`06:06.41`	`landley`	`While avoiding annoying people.`
`06:09.17`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`06:09.37`	`RobotGuy`	`I know the problem.`
`06:09.41`	`landley`	`Didn't you go home and log in from a different location?`
`06:10.19`	`prpplague`	`landley: no, i'm have problems with my crappy att dsl line`
`06:10.26`	`landley`	`Weird.`
`06:10.31`	`landley`	`Check your dhcp timeouts.`
`06:10.39`	`landley`	`Make sure you're not getting a new IP address every 10 minutes.`
`06:11.03`	`landley`	`Hmmm, 70.244.175.101 seems constant...`
`06:11.05`	`RobotGuy`	`The file downloads as Hammer-linux-2.6.22-09122007.diff.gz.tgz , but is supposed to download as hammer-linux-2.6.22-09122007.diff.gz`
`06:11.07`	`landley`	`Or possibly reversed.`
`06:11.37`	`prpplague`	`landley: its suppose to be .gz`
`06:11.44`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: oops that was for you`
`06:11.53`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: after it download just rename the file`
`06:12.15`	`landley`	`Possibly the mime type apache is handing out for the file is wrong.`
`06:12.22`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Oh, OK. I figgered it out. :)`
`06:12.31`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Patch applied`
`06:12.31`	`prpplague`	`ok`
`06:12.40`	`landley`	`It should be "data/X-marcel-marceau" possibly.`
`06:12.42`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: should have the hammer-config now`
`06:13.24`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, YEP!`
`06:14.45`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: copy that over to .config`
`06:14.55`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: run make oldconfig , then make zImage`
`06:14.58`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Done`
`06:15.33`	`prpplague`	`landley: i'll go over your flyer suggestion tomorrow with the boss`
`06:15.49`	`prpplague`	`landley: he's pretty much committed to going to the linux plumbers conference`
`06:15.59`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Did that, doing that. :)`
`06:16.08`	`prpplague`	`landley: we discussed giving away 10-15 boards there`
`06:16.20`	`prpplague`	`landley: we are discussing attending OLS`
`06:16.31`	`landley`	`Coolness.`
`06:16.39`	`RobotGuy`	`OLS?`
`06:16.41`	`landley`	`If you bother to go to a conference, definitely have flyers.`
`06:16.45`	`landley`	`Ottawa Linux Symposium.`
`06:16.57`	`prpplague`	`landley: indeed`
`06:17.05`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: used to be THE conference`
`06:17.19`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: but it has somewhat lessened in the last few years`
`06:18.01`	`RobotGuy`	`I'll attend Linux Plumbers Conference (WEIRD name).`
`06:18.13`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: don't suppose you are a beer drinker are you?`
`06:18.24`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I are!`
`06:18.36`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: get mac-n-jack in your area?`
`06:18.47`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I do not know.`
`06:18.56`	`landley`	`I might go to this plumber's thing.`
`06:19.07`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea it looks pretty interesting`
`06:19.07`	`RobotGuy`	`It's in my big backyard. :D`
`06:19.17`	`landley`	`Dunno yet if I'll be free to, but it does seem interesting.`
`06:19.41`	`prpplague`	`landley: pengincon is when?`
`06:20.04`	`prpplague`	`landley: april?`
`06:21.26`	`landley`	`http://penguicon.org/`
`06:21.42`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, PSST! I got a zImage. :)`
`06:22.10`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: good deal`
`06:22.13`	`RobotGuy`	`Do I dare try my new rootfs and kernel?`
`06:22.19`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe`
`06:22.35`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: should work ok, the wiki does have correct info on reflashing those`
`06:23.03`	`RobotGuy`	`I already did the reflash routine. Hee hee`
`06:23.05`	`prpplague`	`landley: not sure if penguicon would be the right conferences for the nail board`
`06:23.26`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea you can reflash via the jtag or via the rs-232 port via the bootloader`
`06:24.18`	`landley`	`Penguicon is nice, but if you were going to show up send one guy to give a panel on it, not a delegation with a booth.`
`06:24.18`	`prpplague`	`http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_How_to_Reflash_Apex_and_kernel`
`06:24.27`	`prpplague`	`landley: hehe`
`06:24.41`	`landley`	`I co-founded it to have a strong technical side, but it's only about 20% of the con rather than the 50% I envisionied.`
`06:24.42`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea, it would be either me or my boss`
`06:25.05`	`landley`	`I'm not a michigan local, so I couldn't push it as hard as the locals could push the other aspects of the con.`
`06:25.38`	`landley`	`I'm pretty sure I could get your membership comped, but that's about it. :)`
`06:26.11`	`landley`	`Penguicon would get you much more "ooh, shiny!" attention than something like OLS would.`
`06:26.30`	`landley`	`You'll be able to pull the attendees out of their orbitals more easily. They're like drug-crazed ferrets when it comes to shiny technology.`
`06:26.38`	`landley`	`Something like OLS you'd struggle to get _noticed_.`
`06:26.55`	`landley`	`That said, detroit isn't really one of those high-tech hubs I'd expect you to gravitate to. :)`
`06:27.29`	`prpplague`	`yea`
`06:27.30`	`landley`	`I don't know what the plumbers conference is, but I'm hoping it's strongly hobbyist.`
`06:27.33`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Good to know. :D:D`
`06:27.42`	`landley`	`LinuxWorld Expo got so "professional" that it became totally uninteresting.`
`06:27.55`	`landley`	`That's also what's been slowly killing OLS, I suspect.`
`06:28.05`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea, just not sure how the boss would take to such items as "jell-o shots 101" on the events list`
`06:28.32`	`landley`	`If you want to go after hobbists, jello shots 101 is what you want to see on the events list.`
`06:28.59`	`landley`	`If you want to go after professionals who might potentially order 1000 of the units at a time any time soon, that's not your first choice of event.`
`06:29.32`	`landley`	`"They will be impressed/interested" vs "they have much existing power/money/expertise".`
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`06:30.59`	`prpplague`	`crap, gonna have to dig into this problem tommorrow`
`06:31.08`	`landley`	`DSL is cursed.`
`06:31.14`	`landley`	`Not yours specifically, dsl in general.`
`06:31.20`	`landley`	`Cable works, fios works, I've had horrible luck with dsl.`
`06:31.33`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, I think I will be OK now, I hope, maybe. :) I just have to figure out what is built wrong.`
`06:31.52`	`prpplague`	`landley: anyway, boss was amicable(sp?) to going to several conference and giving away a reasonable number of devices`
`06:32.15`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: okie dokie, i'm headed to bed,`
`06:32.15`	`landley`	`Cool.`
`06:32.20`	`prpplague`	`night folks`
`06:32.25`	`landley`	`Figure out how many conferences you want to do this year, make a big list, prioritize.`
`06:32.28`	`landley`	`g'night.`
`06:32.29`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, Thanks for being patient`
`06:32.31`	`prpplague`	`will do`
`06:32.37`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague, G'Night`
`06:32.40`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: np, great feedback`
`06:39.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`Still slightly larger than the hammer - and probably won't quite suit my app.`
`06:41.35`	`RobotGuy`	`It has more I/O pins, including audio, but is not solderless breadboard friendly. Goes a little faster and has more flash.`
`06:41.59`	`landley`	`SpeedEvil: that is interesting.`
`06:42.20`	`RobotGuy`	`$89.00??`
`06:42.23`	`landley`	`I'm personally unlikely to do anything with it, though. :)`
`06:42.47`	`RobotGuy`	`I'm going to stick with Hammer.`
`06:44.15`	`RobotGuy`	`I'd have to have a special carrier board to use the other modules.`
`06:45.42`	`RobotGuy`	`I'd rather have the DIP40 Hammer.`
`06:46.19`	`RobotGuy`	`G'Night all`
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`16:44.19`	`chouimat`	`hi`
`16:52.20`	`*** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac)`
`17:23.12`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: greetings`
`17:23.20`	`prpplague`	`g1powermac: howdy`
`17:23.26`	`prpplague`	`g1powermac: you are work today?`
`17:24.04`	`chouimat`	`prpplague http://www.axentra.com/`
`17:26.59`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: what am i looking for/at ?`
`17:27.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`prpplague: aware of http://www.armkits.com/product/mini2410_II.asp`
`17:27.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`?`
`17:27.40`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea`
`17:27.42`	`chouimat`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:27.51`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: ahh`
`17:28.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`Little too large for me though.`
`17:29.14`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: just alot bigger than the hammer`
`17:29.38`	`chouimat`	`prpplague: I'm currently thinking of getting this one: http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts7800-spec-h.htm`
`17:29.46`	`prpplague`	`the dual row .1" headers make it a beoych to work with`
`17:29.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`2mm`
`17:31.41`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: we could be in the same price range if were were using a board of that size`
`17:32.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`why does board size help? placement costs?`
`17:33.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`and board costs?`
`17:33.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`I suppose you must be 6 layer?`
`17:34.11`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`17:37.58`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea, problem with the embest card is it requires alot of external components to get up an running`
`17:38.04`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: the hammer is all in one`
`17:38.10`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: add 5v and your ready`
`17:44.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've not looked.`
`17:44.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`(in detail)`
`17:44.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think for me - hammer+dspic is a nice solution`
`17:45.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`dspic has 20 a/d inputs, and 8 pwms. and lots of gpio.`
`17:45.50`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea`
`17:45.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think trying to do multi-servo control on the hammer would be bad.`
`17:45.59`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: i've been getting alot of people saying that`
`17:46.13`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea`
`17:46.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`though 2 is easy of course`
`17:46.23`	`*** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@252.223-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`17:48.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`the one thing that might push me away from the hammer (for this design eventualy) is no camera bus.`
`18:02.46`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: ???`
`18:03.03`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: /ping`
`18:03.09`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: /ping`
`18:03.11`	`prpplague`	`oops`
`18:03.30`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: the embest board doesn't have a camera bus either`
`18:03.44`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: but then all you have to do is plug in a usb camera`
`18:10.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`usb1.1 camera`
`18:10.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd really like 5MP.`
`18:11.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`And a moderate frame-rate.`
`18:20.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`I suppose in principle, the camera bus could be wired over another set of pins - all of the outputs are disableable. But I'd have to check the datasheet to see the initial conditions. Which I'm not going to do, as I doubt a one-off'd be worthwhile :)`
`18:34.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sigh. I had the wrong datasheet open.`
`18:34.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`argh`
`18:35.47`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea if need that kind of that kind of camera support, probably gonna need something like the 2440`
`18:37.43`	`g1powermac`	`prpplague, ya`
`18:37.56`	`g1powermac`	`prpplague, doing ok, and yourself?`
`18:38.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or a FPGA :/`
`18:39.46`	`prpplague`	`g1powermac: yea`
`18:39.57`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: well the s3c2440 has a full camera interface`
`18:43.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`that was the 2442 I was looking at I think`
`18:45.50`	`SpeedEvil`	`I find it odd that the DMA controller can't take input from a io port, but I guess it wasn't important enough to add.`
`18:51.45`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: the 2442 is just a 2440 with onboard flash and sdram options`
`18:52.04`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: 2442 isn't easy to implement due to the pitch on the bga package`
`18:52.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`I know. I was reading it as I hope it to be in my new phone.`
`18:52.18`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: ahh`
`18:52.26`	`SpeedEvil`	`And I was wanting power numbers.`
`18:52.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`Which are annoyingly absent.`
`18:53.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`It does have voltage/frequency table though, so it's not all bad.`
`18:53.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also trying to work out powersaving on existing phone.`
`18:54.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`Lots of twiddly registers.`
`19:08.10`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: what phone?`
`19:10.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`Neo1973/the next version of`
`19:26.16`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea the freerunner is 2442 based`
`19:28.30`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: you purchased one?`
`19:28.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`I hope to get one as a prerelease.`
`19:28.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's not for sale yet`
`19:29.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've done lots of work on the wiki, and some on power managment.`
`19:31.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`the recent announcement was a bit confused - the final release candidate PCB hasn't been made yet`
`19:36.03`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: ahh i was under the impression that they had started pre-sales`
`19:36.21`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: we considered using the same pm chip`
`19:38.30`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: imho went too far in using non-open hardware`
`19:38.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`No - at teh moment the core team - 5-8 IIRC are working on the wireless and video accel chips - from NDAd documents. To get them in a state they can confirm there are no remaining unknown serious hw bugs before committing to the release`
`19:39.01`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: but its a step in the right direction anyway`
`19:39.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`they say they are going to release rewritten nda'd documents`
`19:39.27`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: ahh`
`19:41.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`The GSM modem'd be nice to open - but it's actually illegal in some countries effectively.`
`19:41.13`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: well we have a pda style version of the hammer in the works, for people who want to hack the features`
`19:41.22`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yea`
`19:41.57`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: remind me, you are looking at doing a uav right?`
`19:42.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes`
`19:42.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've got some bits, and am currently waiting on others.`
`19:42.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`and on others - the sensor multiplexor - designing it.`
`19:43.20`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: i'll dig around at the office on monday and see if maybe i can find either a 2410 or 2440 board i can send you`
`19:43.34`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: the 2440 might be a better choice`
`19:43.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`Oooh! :) That would be wonderful.`
`19:44.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`Unfortunately, camera is probably not getting off USB1.1 in this version`
`19:44.23`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: we are ready to move to the next rev of our board, so i suspect we might have 8-10 boards that will go on the shelf`
`19:44.42`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: sorry i did not understand that statement`
`19:45.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`A version of the UAV with an integrated camera is unlikely for the prototype.`
`19:45.37`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: ahh`
`19:45.48`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: well the 2440 boards we have do have the camera interface brought out`
`19:45.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think I'm more likely to go with either a USB1.1 2MP webcam, a ptp camera, or worst-case, a camera with a button pressed by a servo.`
`19:46.09`	`prpplague`	`uh`
`19:46.11`	`prpplague`	`ugh`
`19:46.17`	`prpplague`	`why by servo?`
`19:46.21`	`prpplague`	`thats unreliable`
`19:46.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`Because cameras that can do ptp are comparatively rare.`
`19:46.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`(usb command photos)`
`19:46.56`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: just replace the button with a solid state relay`
`19:47.06`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: then trigger it with a gpio`
`19:47.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`perhaps.`
`19:47.31`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: there is a howto on hackaday`
`19:47.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`I know how to do it.`
`19:48.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`The problem is I'm unwilling to spend much effort on a camera that may end up hitting the ground at speed.`
`19:48.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`and with a digicam - I can't do much to make it robust, like I can the computer module.`
`19:49.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`Once I get the first few flights down, I'll probably get it integrated better.`
`19:49.37`	`prpplague`	`okie dokie`
`19:49.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's going to be a little while before it's off the trampoline, with a string shorter than the diameter though :)`
`19:50.41`	`prpplague`	`http://www.hackaday.com/2005/01/12/homebrew-autonomous-high-altitude-glider/`
`19:52.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`Fun. Most optimistic numbers I've run indicate I might get to 4Km.`
`19:53.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`3Km if I want to soft-land :)`
`19:53.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`I suspect 1 is more likely.`
`19:54.05`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: distance or height?`
`19:54.10`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`19:57.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`height.`
`19:58.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`The initial version is simply a 'press red button, ascend vertically, descend vertically'`
`19:58.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`taking a picture at the top`
`19:58.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`and be able to repeat every 20 min`
`20:00.25`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: fun fun`
`20:00.50`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: something specific you are trying to accomplish?`
`20:01.04`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: i.e. take pics of the girls next door by the pool?`
`20:01.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`20:01.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`No - I'm interested in several things.`
`20:01.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`A) Sell imagery directly to customers - an ariel photo service on the cheap.`
`20:02.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`B) sell the UAVs at a reasonable profit.`
`20:02.11`	`prpplague`	`ahh`
`20:02.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`C) aid in openstreetmap.org and openarielmap.org`
`20:02.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`which probably goes to b - users buying their own.`
`20:03.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`So I'm looking to get under .2-.3m resolution images of a 1km*1km patch`
`20:03.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`anything more is a bonus`
`20:04.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm currently unemployed due to illness, so a moneymaking opportunity that I can do whenever I'm feeling up to it would be good.`
`20:15.20`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: ahh`
`20:15.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`'It then flew the last 10km or so happy as can be, upside down. From the ground all we saw, was that it was going where it was supposed to, and the G meter read "1.0". Nobody noticed the negative sign in front of the one, although we did wonder why the glide wasn't quite as good as it had been earlier.' :)`
`20:19.03`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`20:21.00`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: you seen that video of the plane doing vtal ?`
`20:22.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`which plane?`
`20:29.11`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: one posted on /. awhile back`
`20:30.57`	`prpplague`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuSqwb13iw0`
`20:31.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`initially, I'm not including wings, primarily as I need to takeoff and land vertically anyway, and losing the wings simplifies this enormously.`
`20:31.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`Adding wings later is relatively simple.`
`20:34.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`fun`
`20:34.36`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`20:34.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`fun`
`20:35.26`	`prpplague`	`SpeedEvil: yep`
`20:37.25`	`*** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com)`
`20:39.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`Accurate sensors make it so much more trivial.`
`20:40.14`	`prpplague`	`thats what i hear`
`20:40.21`	`prpplague`	`landley: greetings`
`20:40.30`	`prpplague`	`landley: you get my email`
`20:40.55`	`landley`	`Still reading my email for the day.`
`20:41.06`	`prpplague`	`landley: ahh ok`
`20:41.07`	`landley`	`This whole "day schedule" thing has wandered a bit off center for me recently...`
`20:41.14`	`prpplague`	`landley: np`
`20:41.24`	`prpplague`	`landley: i sent you a chvt patch for toybox`
`20:41.47`	`prpplague`	`landley: just wanted to get my hands dirty with toybox and get used to the coding style needed for toybox`
`20:43.07`	`landley`	`Cool. I should get to that in about an hour. Thanks.`
`20:43.54`	`prpplague`	`landley: don't flame me too hard, hehe`
`20:44.09`	`prpplague`	`landley: just a quicky attempt get used to the app`
`20:47.17`	`landley`	`I'm unlikely to flame you. Might clean it up a bit before it goes in, but I haven't seen it yet...`
`20:47.25`	`landley`	`Toybox is... a slightly weird project.`
`20:47.37`	`landley`	`I'm being waaaay too much of a perfectionist about it, but that's sort of why it exists.`
`20:47.46`	`landley`	`If I can't do a _better_ job than busybox, there's not much point in doing it at all.`
`20:49.56`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`20:54.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`Build a better busybox, and the world (well - those with teeny filesystems) will love you.`
`21:09.12`	`prpplague`	`hmm`
`21:09.37`	`prpplague`	`looks like a ton of confusing about arm7 and arm9 cores on the portland robotics mailing list`
`21:18.29`	`chouimat`	`prpplague: they should read wikipedia more often ... they explain the difference :)`
`21:19.07`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: well its not really their cup of tea, so i can understand the confusion`
`21:20.07`	`landley`	`SpeedEvil: I used to _maintain_ busybox. I know exactly how to do a better job.`
`21:20.21`	`chouimat`	`prpplague: I like the table in this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture`
`21:20.55`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: yea i have something similiar on the elinux wiki`
`21:21.05`	`landley`	`That is a nice table.`
`21:24.57`	`*** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`21:41.13`	`prpplague`	`http://www.elinux.org/ARM_Processor`
`21:41.26`	`prpplague`	`not as fancy, but i've stream lined it a little`
`21:41.29`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: greetings`
`21:41.36`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: just made a post to the parts mailing list`
`21:41.59`	`RobotGuy`	`CooL!`
`21:45.44`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: should have an updated iso available for dl by tuesday`
`21:45.59`	`RobotGuy`	`Wonderful. So there is a problem with the CD then?`
`21:46.29`	`RobotGuy`	`I have 6 MB/768KB DSL so downloading will be pretty quick.`
`21:47.13`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: yea that one you got was one of the ones that should have gotten trashed`
`21:47.27`	`RobotGuy`	`Oh, OK. I am always the lucky one. :D`
`21:56.26`	`prpplague`	`ho ho hum`
`21:57.17`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: Don't you hate when you find bugs in software and nobody believes you?`
`21:57.37`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: indeed`
`21:57.47`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: however with most of the software i deal with i just fix it`
`21:57.57`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: the problem is when i try to submit patches for it`
`21:58.01`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: That is definitely good for you.`
`21:58.23`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: well good for anyone using opensource`
`21:58.54`	`RobotGuy`	`I am tracking down and have to prove a bug in somebody else's software.`
`21:59.11`	`RobotGuy`	`It's a show stopper for my Lynxmotion project.`
`21:59.19`	`RobotGuy`	`If it really is a bug.`
`22:01.54`	`RobotGuy`	`I have some problems with my Hammer buildroot, but I think I can fix those now.`
`22:03.24`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: okie dokie`
`22:03.34`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: give me shout on anything you need help with`
`22:03.48`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: I will, thanks.`
`22:04.15`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: did you test you kernel and rootfs`
`22:04.50`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: Yes, but they did not work for me. I think I messed something up with my buildroot config.`
`22:05.11`	`RobotGuy`	`I am going to put the stock config back in my buildroot and see if that fixes things.`
`22:06.14`	`RobotGuy`	`Hee hee, my cat is stalking my RoboQuad. :D`
`22:08.16`	`Dr{Who}`	`hay robo.. i just picked up some paralax branded sensors from radio shack its neet they have stuff like it in stock now. had a ir sensor and a pinger..`
`22:09.42`	`prpplague`	`ho ho hum`
`22:09.49`	`prpplague`	`too much work too little time`
`22:10.03`	`*** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp226.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca)`
`22:13.32`	`RobotGuy`	`Interesting Dr`
`22:13.56`	`RobotGuy`	`There are so many things I would like to tinker with.`
`22:14.33`	`prpplague`	`landley: doh, sorry, about the reverse patch, hadn't had my coffee yet when i ran the diff, hehe`
`22:18.32`	`landley`	`shrug Nothing I couldn't cope with. :)`
`22:19.12`	`landley`	`I just got an email from a Solaris developer saying that it was rude of me to refer to solaris as a "pig" for refusing to decompress the kernel and hand off ot userspace in only 128 megs of ram.`
`22:19.30`	`landley`	`I apologized to him for paying any attention to solaris, and I'm off to delete my solaris-indiana ISO image.`
`22:19.39`	`landley`	`Honestly, not a test environment I care about.`
`22:20.12`	`landley`	`Are there any solaris developers _not_ in the employ of Sun?`
`22:22.33`	`prpplague`	`landley: back`
`22:22.45`	`prpplague`	`landley: just repling to your email`
`22:23.20`	`prpplague`	`landley: probably not, hehe`
`22:24.05`	`prpplague`	`landley: chvt isn't particularly useful in production, but it is pretty darn handy to have during board bringup for lcd framebuffer and other non-standard consoles`
`22:24.32`	`landley`	`ok`
`22:24.38`	`prpplague`	`landley: btw, fdisk vs. sfdisk`
`22:24.48`	`landley`	`prpplague: both should run off the same core logic.`
`22:24.53`	`landley`	`It's two different user interfaces to the same library.`
`22:24.55`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: Might Apache 2.2.x be added to buildroot?`
`22:25.07`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: doubt it`
`22:25.20`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: if you need a web server there are several listed`
`22:25.26`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: including boa`
`22:25.48`	`landley`	`If all I want fdisk/sfdisk to do is edit the primary and logical partition tables in PC format, it's probably about a 5k app. Maybe 7 if I add disk label support and such.`
`22:25.50`	`prpplague`	`landley: indeed, the thing is that sfdisk is much much more scriptable`
`22:25.55`	`landley`	`I know.`
`22:26.05`	`RobotGuy`	`I've never used any of the listed servers, but OK. I will learn something new then. :D`
`22:26.05`	`landley`	`It's the world's most horrible user interface, of course.`
`22:26.07`	`landley`	`I've scripted both.`
`22:26.11`	`prpplague`	`landley: hehe indeed`
`22:26.31`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: they are easy to work with`
`22:26.55`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: No doubt. I was just hoping to use knowledge I already have.`
`22:27.18`	`landley`	`I've had to work out partition logic by hand to do "losetup -o". After that...`
`22:27.39`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe don't worry, the included webservers have very small learning curves`
`22:29.25`	`prpplague`	`landley: i assume you;ve not synced with your repo as of yet`
`22:31.17`	`landley`	`Ah, right.`
`22:31.36`	`landley`	`prpplague: Try now.`
`22:33.46`	`prpplague`	`yep good deal`
`22:36.28`	`prpplague`	`landley: spacing and tabbing ok?`
`22:37.19`	`prpplague`	`landley: oh, btw, did you get the makefile setup to compile individual toys?`
`22:40.01`	`*** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`22:41.09`	`prpplague`	`landley: btw, its my wireless ap router thats going belly up`
`22:41.37`	`prpplague`	`landley: oh, btw, did you get the makefile setup to compile individual toys?`
`22:42.34`	`landley`	`prpplague: not yet.`
`22:42.53`	`prpplague`	`landley: ahh ok`
`22:42.53`	`landley`	`I should go poke at that again, but it wasn't going to make the 0.0.4 release, so it kind of slipped.`
`22:43.04`	`prpplague`	`landley: np, was just curious`
`22:43.09`	`prpplague`	`landley: another item`
`22:43.13`	`landley`	`It's something I need to do for sed.`
`22:43.30`	`landley`	`Once I have sed in, being able to build a standalone sed without configuring the rest of toybox is very helpful for building on macos X.`
`22:43.49`	`prpplague`	`landley: give me the scoop on using other gpl code in toybox, are we using only code that is under gpl v2 ?`
`22:44.04`	`landley`	`yup.`
`22:44.21`	`prpplague`	`landley: ok, so any code that is "v2 or later" is unusable?`
`22:44.25`	`landley`	`Mostly it's all code I've written myself so far, but I've accepted gplv2 contributions and plan to go seek ot a few in the future.`
`22:44.35`	`landley`	`No, "v2 or later" just gets trimmed to "v2 only".`
`22:44.57`	`landley`	`Although if they give me grief about rewriting the permission grant text, that's enough to keep the darn code out as far as I'm concerned.`
`22:45.08`	`landley`	`I have a license rant linked from the main page.`
`22:45.24`	`prpplague`	`landley: ok, just wanted to make sure`
`22:45.31`	`landley`	`That was the issue between me and bruce that got me to never want to see the man again. :P`
`22:45.40`	`prpplague`	`landley: i did the chvt from scratch since it was small, just as a test`
`22:45.44`	`*** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD27DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`22:45.59`	`prpplague`	`landley: hehe, yea, i recal it`
`22:46.30`	`prpplague`	`landley: hence my questions on the gplv2 and later question, hehe`
`22:47.23`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`22:47.43`	`prpplague`	`landley: be a good day for testing the nail then, hehe`
`22:47.47`	`landley`	`I may relocate to starbucks for a few hours. Try to do the openfiles() thing and some other stuff.`
`22:47.54`	`landley`	`Would be an excellent day, if I had one.`
`22:48.01`	`landley`	`Alas, starbucks has no internet access.`
`22:48.13`	`landley`	`(Specifically, it has T-mobile brand lack of internet access.)`
`22:48.51`	`landley`	`Honestly, they spend more cleaning the milk steamer each month.`
`22:49.25`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`22:49.30`	`landley`	`(The first "them" being t-mobile, the second and third being starbucks.)`
`22:49.43`	`landley`	`I should have said "marklar" to be clear.`
`22:51.22`	`prpplague`	`landley: any other trivial toys you want me to work on when i have time?`
`22:53.15`	`landley`	`http://127.0.0.1/code/toybox/todo.txt`
`22:53.18`	`landley`	`er, landley.net I mean.`
`22:53.21`	`flyback-`	`http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320447,00.html <--- cool! we go to hell and we die!`
`22:54.47`	`*** join/#edev Crofton\|home (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net)`
`22:55.48`	`prpplague`	`landley: yea thats what i was looking at`
`22:56.04`	`RobotGuy`	`I wish they would not call the bad ones Hackers. it gives the good ones a really bad reputation`
`22:57.21`	`prpplague`	`landley: question, what happens when you get a larger number of toys? you gonna add subdirectories`
`22:58.02`	`RobotGuy`	`What is this toybox I am hearing about??`
`22:58.29`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`22:59.04`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`22:59.17`	`prpplague`	`gotta get a new router`
`22:59.32`	`prpplague`	`landley: question, what happens when you get a larger number of toys? you gonna add subdirectories?`
`23:00.11`	`prpplague`	`landley: sub group it similiar to the way busybox does?`
`23:04.14`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe tim russell is in for a rude awakening`
`23:04.35`	`prpplague`	`s/russell/ressel`
`23:04.57`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: Why is that?`
`23:06.09`	`RobotGuy`	`I just discovered that my BRAT servos were NOT properly centered, even though I did the centering procedure perfectly.`
`23:06.38`	`prpplague`	`~seen andersee`
`23:06.42`	`purl`	`andersee <n=andersee@codepoet.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #utos, 121d 5h 16m 3s ago, saying: 'TimRikerUTOSC: I'm bringing my wifes cell phone'.`
`23:07.12`	`RobotGuy`	`seen RobotGuy`
`23:07.42`	`*** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@ppp-70-244-175-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`23:07.55`	`RobotGuy`	`seen RobotGuy`
`23:08.00`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: hehe`
`23:08.06`	`RobotGuy`	`Hmmm, nobody seen me lately`
`23:08.14`	`prpplague`	`~seen RobotGuy`
`23:08.16`	`purl`	`robotguy is currently on #edev (1h 43m 19s). Has said a total of 26 messages. Is idling for 10s, last said: 'Hmmm, nobody seen me lately'.`
`23:08.26`	`prpplague`	`~seen andersee`
`23:08.27`	`purl`	`andersee <n=andersee@codepoet.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #utos, 121d 5h 17m 48s ago, saying: 'TimRikerUTOSC: I'm bringing my wifes cell phone'.`
`23:08.27`	`RobotGuy`	`Ha ha`
`23:08.52`	`RobotGuy`	`I used to tinker with a couple IRC bots`
`23:09.11`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: that tim guy is in world of problems`
`23:09.22`	`RobotGuy`	`prpplague: Why?`
`23:09.27`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: trying to use a mini-itx board with windows ce`
`23:09.29`	`RobotGuy`	`Tim who?`
`23:09.43`	`prpplague`	`RobotGuy: new post on the PARTS list`
`23:10.02`	`RobotGuy`	`Most RoboMagellan people use itx mobos on their bots.`
`23:10.16`	`prpplague`	`really`
`23:10.18`	`RobotGuy`	`I don't think that is necessary, but I could be wrong`
`23:10.18`	`prpplague`	`thats interesting`
`23:10.50`	`RobotGuy`	`It's mainly because they don't think vision can be done with less processor power.`
`23:12.30`	`RobotGuy`	`I don't see why RoboMagellan can't be done with several smaller and/or dedicated application processors`
`23:13.11`	`RobotGuy`	`I don't have much hope of actually proving (or disproving) this though.`
`23:14.11`	`prpplague`	`i might tinker with doing something like that`
`23:14.21`	`prpplague`	`bbiab`
`23:22.05`	`landley`	`prpplague: I might add subdirectories to the config. Haven't decided yet.`
`23:22.25`	`landley`	`I'm unlikely to add subdirectories to the "toys" directory. Not leaning that way at present, anyway.`
`23:22.53`	`landley`	`It's a fairly straightforward "one .c file per command". Anything shared between two commands goes in lib.`
`23:23.09`	`landley`	`Yeah, I need to clean up e2fs.h. :)`
`23:23.26`	`landley`	`Ah, missed him. (Backscroll!)`
`23:30.48`	`RobotGuy`	`What are these "toys"? Is it for Hammer?`
`23:39.01`	`landley`	`Robotguy...`
`23:39.04`	`landley`	`darn, I missed him.`
`23:39.38`	`cajaka`	`Its just not your night is it?`
`23:40.47`	`landley`	`New qemu releae!`
`23:44.07`	`landley`	`Yay new qemu release.`
`23:44.15`	`landley`	`("Now with armv7.")`
`23:46.58`	`*** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`23:50.07`	`*** join/#edev huaynac (n=huaynac@61.6.65.198)`
`23:51.49`	`*** join/#edev huaynac (n=huaynac@61.6.65.198)`

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