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| 05:22.13 | landley | Anybody currently online know much about the S3C2410? |
| 05:22.20 | landley | (That samsung SOC thing in the hammer board?) |
| 05:22.35 | RobotGuy | landley: Hello |
| 05:22.39 | landley | Is the RTC actually persistent? |
| 05:22.42 | landley | Hi RobotGuy. |
| 05:22.49 | SpeedEvil | landley: what do you mean? |
| 05:23.00 | SpeedEvil | landley: yes - if it's got the right voltage rail and clock |
| 05:23.02 | RobotGuy | I have not been able to get a proper datasheet on the S3C2310 |
| 05:23.04 | landley | SpeedEvil: http://www.elinux.org/S3C2410 |
| 05:23.13 | landley | on the hammer I mean. |
| 05:23.35 | landley | Is the hammer isn't providing a persistent clock that keeps time while the thing's off? |
| 05:23.36 | SpeedEvil | No - exact details are somewhat limited. |
| 05:23.45 | landley | It says it has timers and an RTC. |
| 05:23.53 | SpeedEvil | landley: It does. |
| 05:23.57 | landley | To me, RTC is different from a timer because it keeps time when the thing's off. |
| 05:24.02 | landley | Which usually means "batter backed"... |
| 05:24.07 | SpeedEvil | landley: the SOC has a RTC |
| 05:24.13 | landley | So that page says. |
| 05:24.22 | SpeedEvil | landley: which uses a small power supply and crystal to keep time. |
| 05:24.29 | landley | But that's just a potential, I dunno if the hammer has a battery for it. |
| 05:24.30 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if the hammer implements this. |
| 05:24.38 | RobotGuy | You have to have a way to keep the RTC powered all the time, meaning a battery. |
| 05:24.39 | landley | I should go look at my board... |
| 05:24.40 | SpeedEvil | Have you looked at the board? |
| 05:24.46 | SpeedEvil | there would need to be two crystals |
| 05:24.58 | SpeedEvil | One 12Mhz, one 32768Hz |
| 05:25.42 | RobotGuy | There is no place for a battery on the Carrier Board. |
| 05:26.04 | SpeedEvil | No, that doesn't - in principle - mean it couldn't work in suspend mode. |
| 05:26.40 | landley | RobotGuy: the nail board could have one, though. |
| 05:26.47 | SpeedEvil | I haven't looked on what rails can be turned on and off on the hammer |
| 05:27.35 | RobotGuy | landley: Possibly, but I don't have a nail board. |
| 05:27.40 | landley | Also, it says 3 UARTs, 4 DMA... But just "USB host" and "USB device". |
| 05:27.50 | SpeedEvil | landley: so? |
| 05:28.00 | landley | Is there one of each type of USB? |
| 05:28.06 | landley | So 2 USB controllers? |
| 05:28.12 | SpeedEvil | landley: (which is strictly incorrect, it's one host/device, and one host) |
| 05:28.15 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 05:28.20 | landley | ok |
| 05:28.33 | RobotGuy | One USB Host and one USB Slave port, but these may be able to drive something like a Hub. |
| 05:28.36 | landley | four dma, three uart, two USB, and a paaaaartridge in a... |
| 05:28.50 | landley | In the nail board they are dying a hub. |
| 05:28.52 | landley | driving. |
| 05:29.06 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: both can be host ports. Only one can be a device. You can plug hubs into host ports. |
| 05:29.24 | SpeedEvil | well - into the upstream connetion of hubs |
| 05:29.51 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I will need a hub. I got a 2 GB Thumb Drive today. :D |
| 05:30.06 | landley | RobotGuy: I have a 4GB thumb drive. |
| 05:30.07 | SpeedEvil | Not unless you need to connect other stuff |
| 05:30.12 | landley | $35 at Fry's several months ago. |
| 05:30.25 | landley | On sale. |
| 05:30.29 | RobotGuy | landley: 4 GB at Best Buy for $34.95 also |
| 05:30.37 | RobotGuy | As of today. |
| 05:30.48 | landley | Months later I'd _hope_ it's cheaper. :) |
| 05:31.02 | RobotGuy | landley: Best Buy prices never drop as fast as others. |
| 05:31.06 | landley | what's PWM? |
| 05:31.15 | landley | RobotGuy: they drop as fast, they're just on a delay. |
| 05:31.15 | RobotGuy | Pulse Width Modulation |
| 05:31.24 | landley | Moore's law applies to everybody, but they've got bigger profit margins. |
| 05:31.32 | landley | What does that _mean_? |
| 05:31.39 | landley | 4-ch Timers with PWM. |
| 05:31.42 | landley | And a drop of retsin! |
| 05:31.51 | SpeedEvil | landley: 2 channel PWM |
| 05:32.05 | landley | No idea what PWM does, or is for. |
| 05:32.13 | SpeedEvil | landley: you can generate a 1Khz signal (say) with a 0-1 mark-space ratio |
| 05:32.25 | landley | 0-1 mark-space ratio? |
| 05:32.26 | SpeedEvil | from 0-1 |
| 05:32.30 | SpeedEvil | smoothly variabl |
| 05:32.32 | SpeedEvil | e |
| 05:32.33 | landley | Iknow what a 1khz signal is... |
| 05:32.44 | RobotGuy | PWM can be used for motor control, controlling brightness of LEDS, etc. |
| 05:32.47 | SpeedEvil | from off all the time, to on all the time |
| 05:32.49 | RobotGuy | And many other things. |
| 05:32.52 | SpeedEvil | and it's automatic |
| 05:33.08 | SpeedEvil | you set it, you don't need to come back every 1ms and toggle the output pin |
| 05:33.38 | landley | So... you can hook the timer straight through to an output pin? |
| 05:33.40 | RobotGuy | I finally got all the servos into my BRAT. :) |
| 05:33.48 | SpeedEvil | landley: two of them. |
| 05:34.05 | landley | It does some kind of alternating current thing? |
| 05:34.11 | landley | Why would you want to hook it through to two output pins? |
| 05:34.31 | SpeedEvil | landley: you can set it to be high for a period, and low for a period. |
| 05:34.45 | landley | Um... ok? |
| 05:34.45 | SpeedEvil | landley: there are only 2 pwm outputs brought out to pins |
| 05:35.10 | landley | The page says 4-ch timers with PWM. Where do you get 2? |
| 05:35.15 | SpeedEvil | landley: and for it to repeat this automatically. Handy for all sorts of stuff that you apparantly don't care about. For example servo. |
| 05:35.18 | SpeedEvil | what page? |
| 05:35.44 | landley | http://www.elinux.org/S3C2410 |
| 05:35.46 | SpeedEvil | the SoC can do 4 - 2 are brought out on the hammer. |
| 05:35.54 | landley | ah. |
| 05:36.15 | landley | An auto-blinking LED is cool. Just trying to figure out how to document the nail board. |
| 05:36.27 | landley | The _components_ are already documented. Sort of. |
| 05:36.28 | SpeedEvil | It's more than that. |
| 05:36.37 | SpeedEvil | You can for example connect a R/C servo to it |
| 05:36.46 | SpeedEvil | and set position with one command |
| 05:38.03 | SpeedEvil | landley: I only see one thing which looks likely to be a crystal. |
| 05:38.15 | SpeedEvil | landley: so it looks like probably no on the RTC |
| 05:38.27 | SpeedEvil | a higher resolution image of the top of the hammer would be helpful |
| 05:38.28 | landley | I suspected as much. |
| 05:38.36 | landley | I'm wondering more about the battery than the crystal... |
| 05:39.00 | SpeedEvil | higher than http://www.elinux.org/Image:Hammer1.jpg |
| 05:39.06 | landley | I actually _have_ a hammer here, but it's not helpful. 'Oh look, a chip. And two more chips. And other little black rectangles soldered onto the board." |
| 05:39.21 | SpeedEvil | It's helpful if you know what the rectangles are |
| 05:39.38 | RobotGuy | Most likely MCU, FLash, and RAM for the large ones. |
| 05:40.09 | landley | RobotGuy: yup. |
| 05:40.15 | landley | But there are several smaller rectangles, unlabeled. |
| 05:40.28 | SpeedEvil | Interesting. |
| 05:40.40 | SpeedEvil | http://www.tincantools.com/ has on top of the page a different variant. |
| 05:41.19 | RobotGuy | landley: If you don't want it, I'll take it. :D:D |
| 05:41.36 | landley | I'm not saying it's _bad_, I'm just trying to document it. |
| 05:41.48 | RobotGuy | landley: As am I, but in a different way. |
| 05:56.17 | landley | Remind me to ask prpplague what would be involved in making the RTC persistent. |
| 05:56.26 | landley | Yeah, couple crystals and a battery, but it would be _cool_. |
| 05:56.56 | RobotGuy | landley: I don't think that would be possible with Hammer. |
| 05:57.07 | landley | Hammer, no. Nail, yes. |
| 05:57.22 | RobotGuy | landley: Ah, OK. I don't know much about Nail. |
| 05:58.03 | landley | I don't know if the appropriate SOC pins are brought out to the edge of the hammer board. |
| 05:58.31 | SpeedEvil | landley: new rev of hammer board. |
| 05:58.38 | SpeedEvil | landley: not goign to happen for months at best |
| 05:59.24 | landley | *shrug* |
| 05:59.28 | landley | If it hasn't got it, it hasn't got it... |
| 06:19.13 | RobotGuy | landley: Which pins do you mean? The pinout is on the main hammer wiki page. |
| 06:20.16 | SpeedEvil | he was talking (indirectly) of the 32Khz clock pins, the standby supply pins |
| 06:22.04 | landley | Whatever the "RTC" on the above web page is. |
| 06:22.22 | landley | I just think it'd be nice if the nail board had a persistent clock on it. |
| 06:22.25 | SpeedEvil | Real Time Clock |
| 06:22.38 | landley | My $6 wal-mart wristwatch has one, after all... :) |
| 06:22.40 | SpeedEvil | I thought the nail was simply a mount for the hammer. |
| 06:22.53 | landley | SpeedEvil: the hammer's onboard SOC has RTC capability. |
| 06:23.03 | landley | But it would need some kind of battery, and maybe crystals. |
| 06:23.17 | RobotGuy | landley: True, but we do not have access to it unfortunately, except in software. |
| 06:23.41 | RobotGuy | landley: It would need battery backup and a crystal. |
| 06:23.45 | landley | If I power off the board, I want it to know the time when I power it on again. |
| 06:23.46 | landley | Exactly. |
| 06:24.03 | landley | This could be achieved by waving a radioactive ferret over it in production. Not my area. |
| 06:24.05 | SpeedEvil | i2c clock chips are cheap |
| 06:24.05 | RobotGuy | landley: I think that's really the only bad design choice made with Hammer. |
| 06:24.45 | RobotGuy | I would have traded the ADCs for access to the RTC. |
| 06:24.55 | SpeedEvil | I wouldn't. |
| 06:25.19 | SpeedEvil | you can serialise stuff if you care by using boot-counts. |
| 06:25.26 | RobotGuy | Just two ADCs are not that useful and ADC chips with up to 8 channels are not expensive. |
| 06:26.04 | landley | Analog to Digital Converter? |
| 06:26.07 | RobotGuy | Yes |
| 06:26.08 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 06:26.14 | landley | So it's got audio capture then? |
| 06:26.18 | landley | Yay, microphone pickup. |
| 06:26.19 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 06:26.21 | landley | Does it produce sound? |
| 06:26.26 | landley | Aw. :( |
| 06:26.38 | SpeedEvil | the a/d are 10 bit (IIRC) and quite noisy |
| 06:26.39 | RobotGuy | landley: We do not have access to the I2S (Sound bus). |
| 06:26.44 | RobotGuy | (I don't think) |
| 06:26.48 | SpeedEvil | they wil work adequately for speech |
| 06:26.53 | SpeedEvil | not mich better |
| 06:27.06 | SpeedEvil | No, I2S isn't there |
| 06:27.28 | SpeedEvil | the pwm outputs can be used to make beeps. |
| 06:27.43 | RobotGuy | Nope, no I2S access. |
| 06:28.12 | SpeedEvil | You can put a ADC/DAC - reasonable quality on the SPI port |
| 06:28.34 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes, indeed. I have many of these of various resolutions and speeds. |
| 06:29.11 | RobotGuy | I have several 12 bit ADCs, multi-channel. |
| 06:29.22 | SpeedEvil | I think I'm going on my design for a DSPIC sending back data over serial |
| 06:29.49 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I am going with I2C to talk to 2 dsPICs and at least 1 MCP23017. |
| 06:30.10 | SpeedEvil | (Simply as I can fork it to my modem) |
| 06:30.30 | RobotGuy | I'll have Bluetooth also. |
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| 08:09.45 | Mirell | I'm tempted to get a AT&T Tilt. |
| 08:13.22 | RobotGuy | Lucky you! |
| 08:13.36 | RobotGuy | I want one of those. |
| 08:25.28 | Mirell | Except for the Windows Mobile, looks sexy. |
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| 08:30.25 | RobotGuy | Yeah, I wasn't really wanting a Windows Mobile phone either, but Linux phones don't seem to be getting around in the USA. |
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| 10:09.08 | RobotGuy | Greetings |
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| 18:23.03 | JonHylands | hey prpplague |
| 18:23.17 | prpplague | JonHylands: greetings |
| 18:23.25 | JonHylands | We got Squeak running on the Hammer |
| 18:23.32 | prpplague | yea, me too |
| 18:24.07 | JonHylands | The numbers performance-wise are okay, but not as good as you hoped - might just be a function of Smalltalk though |
| 18:24.14 | JonHylands | hammer:15,640,273 bytecodes/sec; 502,667 sends/sec |
| 18:24.14 | JonHylands | gumstix:35,694,366 bytecodes/sec; 1,444,513 sends/sec |
| 18:24.14 | JonHylands | laptop:424,896,265 bytecodes/sec; 12,605,825 sends/sec |
| 18:24.25 | prpplague | JonHylands: i had not run the tinybenchmark as of yet |
| 18:24.29 | prpplague | what kind of numbers did you get |
| 18:24.38 | JonHylands | so its about 2.5 times slower than a 600Mhz gumstix |
| 18:24.54 | JonHylands | equiavalent to about 240 MHz XScale |
| 18:25.17 | JonHylands | looking at the average of bytescodes/sec and sends/sec |
| 18:27.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: hmm, i would have expected it to be just 50% slower than the 600mhz xscale |
| 18:27.14 | prpplague | JonHylands: wondering if there is some tweaking to be done |
| 18:27.25 | JonHylands | on raw bytecodes/sec, it nearly is |
| 18:27.32 | prpplague | JonHylands: were you running it from jffs2 or from the ramdisk? |
| 18:27.38 | JonHylands | /mnt/flash |
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| 18:27.58 | prpplague | JonHylands: ahh, yea, that might affect the speed |
| 18:28.06 | RobotGuy | Hi Jon |
| 18:28.16 | prpplague | JonHylands: i'll do some more tests on monday |
| 18:28.17 | RobotGuy | Hi prpplague |
| 18:28.19 | JonHylands | how? Its not doing any I/O during the benchmark |
| 18:28.24 | JonHylands | Hi RobotGuy |
| 18:28.46 | prpplague | JonHylands: ahh ok, i wasn't sure if there was any i/o |
| 18:28.54 | JonHylands | nope, just pure processing |
| 18:28.57 | prpplague | JonHylands: i'm totally unfamilar with squeak |
| 18:29.15 | JonHylands | that's okay :-) |
| 18:29.32 | prpplague | JonHylands: i'll look some on monday to see if can increase performance |
| 18:29.51 | prpplague | JonHylands: so the current speed is not acceptable for practical usage? |
| 18:29.54 | JonHylands | okay - Dave also needs to look into the softfloat stuff, since FP isn't working |
| 18:30.00 | JonHylands | yes, its very acceptabl;e |
| 18:30.41 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea, the current build for the hammer uses hard float exceptions |
| 18:30.53 | prpplague | JonHylands: which does affect performance on FP operations |
| 18:31.15 | JonHylands | well, right now in Squeak FP isn't working at all, but that may just be a function of how it was built |
| 18:32.12 | JonHylands | RobotGuy: I put up a small dev image you can use |
| 18:34.31 | prpplague | lovely |
| 18:34.51 | prpplague | JonHylands: so does that mean there is hope for squeak applications on the hammer? |
| 18:34.58 | JonHylands | absoilutely |
| 18:35.09 | JonHylands | it runs faster than some devices I've used for Squeak |
| 18:35.20 | JonHylands | my AUV MicroSeeker was running on a 300 MHz XScale PDA |
| 18:35.36 | RobotGuy | JonHylands: Cool, thanks. |
| 18:36.55 | prpplague | JonHylands: well now that we have a base working for squeak, i'm sure lots of tweaks to the performance can be done |
| 18:37.07 | prpplague | JonHylands: where do you have your image posted? |
| 18:37.10 | JonHylands | Yeah, although honestly I'm not worried about it right now |
| 18:37.19 | JonHylands | http://www.huv.com/hammer/Hammer.zip |
| 18:37.41 | JonHylands | I just posted a message to the PARTS list explaning how to invoke it - are you on that list? |
| 18:37.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: can you create a wiki entry for squeak and for hammer_squeak ? |
| 18:38.02 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea |
| 18:38.07 | JonHylands | okay |
| 18:38.18 | prpplague | JonHylands: uh, zip? |
| 18:38.25 | JonHylands | heh |
| 18:38.28 | JonHylands | I |
| 18:38.35 | JonHylands | I'm a Windows guy, sue me :-) |
| 18:38.42 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:39.04 | prpplague | JonHylands: oh you are doing all your dev under windows? |
| 18:39.07 | prpplague | interesting |
| 18:39.09 | JonHylands | I can put up a tar file if you can tell me the stupid option to create a .tgz file (I can never remember) |
| 18:39.13 | JonHylands | yeah |
| 18:39.17 | prpplague | JonHylands: you doing the buildroot for hammer as well under windows? |
| 18:39.27 | JonHylands | Squeak images are binary portable across all platforms |
| 18:39.40 | JonHylands | no, my brother did the buildroot, under ubuntu |
| 18:39.53 | prpplague | JonHylands: yea i gathered that squeak was portable |
| 18:39.57 | prpplague | JonHylands: ahh ok |
| 18:40.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, of course! |
| 18:40.25 | prpplague | JonHylands: np, on the zip, just joking with you, i'll grab it and repost with both zip and tgz |
| 18:40.32 | JonHylands | okay, thanks :-) |
| 18:40.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for the squeak page just do general squeak info, nothing specific to hammer |
| 18:41.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 18:41.12 | JonHylands | I have to run - talk to you guys later |
| 18:41.18 | RobotGuy | Thanks JoN! |
| 18:41.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for the hammer, post the howto info as well as the comparison data |
| 18:41.38 | prpplague | JonHylands: thanks, later |
| 18:41.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Comparison data? OK. |
| 18:41.55 | prpplague | one sec |
| 18:42.00 | JonHylands | hammer:15,640,273 bytecodes/sec; 502,667 sends/sec |
| 18:42.00 | JonHylands | gumstix:35,694,366 bytecodes/sec; 1,444,513 sends/sec |
| 18:42.05 | RobotGuy | Oh, OK |
| 18:42.15 | JonHylands | 600 MHz verdex gumstix (XL6P) |
| 18:42.38 | prpplague | just make a note that the hammer is at 600mhz and the hammer at 200mhz |
| 18:42.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think we probably can tweak some of that to get a little better performance |
| 18:43.02 | JonHylands | 200 MHz hammer is roughly equiavalent to a 240 MHz XScale, as far as Squeak goes |
| 18:43.23 | RobotGuy | OK, I am collecting data. |
| 18:43.31 | prpplague | JonHylands: one thing that can be changed is the hz definetion on the linux kernel |
| 18:43.48 | RobotGuy | Maybe we need a languages page on the Hammer Wiki now. |
| 18:43.55 | prpplague | JonHylands: the xscale builds tend to use a value of 1000 and the s3c2410 uses 200 |
| 18:44.07 | JonHylands | of course, we're using exactly the same code on the gumstix and the hammer, so we need to be careful of what tweaking we do on one that we don't do on the other |
| 18:44.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: indeed |
| 18:44.22 | prpplague | JonHylands: correct, this more on the linux os side |
| 18:44.27 | JonHylands | okay |
| 18:44.43 | JonHylands | okay, gotta run - later |
| 18:44.46 | prpplague | JonHylands: basically by going from 200 to 1000 you increase the interrupt vector accuracy |
| 18:44.50 | prpplague | JonHylands: ok later |
| 18:45.28 | RobotGuy | How is everything today? |
| 18:45.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: changing that value does have some draw backs but mainly for things like video playback and audio |
| 18:45.55 | prpplague | in our case, those aren't relevant |
| 18:46.05 | *** join/#edev mrfree (n=mrfree@host2-19-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:46.19 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 18:46.39 | RobotGuy | I fiddled with kernels and initramfs for many hours yesterday. |
| 18:47.12 | RobotGuy | I still don't understand why mine won't boot properly. |
| 18:48.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: whats not building? |
| 18:49.20 | RobotGuy | It's building fine. Just won't boot. |
| 18:50.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/853662 |
| 18:52.18 | prpplague | yea still looks as though you are overwritting something |
| 18:52.28 | RobotGuy | That's what I can't figure out. |
| 18:52.47 | RobotGuy | My system partition should be plently big enough for everything. |
| 18:53.09 | RobotGuy | Hey, I got a 2 GB Thumb Drive yesterday. :D |
| 18:53.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why do you keep reloading the bootloader? |
| 18:53.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Easier to just do it all when I am changing two out of three. |
| 18:56.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'd change the bootloader defaults then |
| 18:56.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Change and recompile apex |
| 18:56.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 18:57.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. The only thing I don't have in my kernel that I will need is the TCP/IP stuff. |
| 18:57.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i have to run an errand |
| 18:57.33 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 18:57.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 18:58.42 | Mirell | $2 Margaritas kill. |
| 19:08.56 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 19:31.31 | RobotGuy | Howdy Mirell |
| 19:32.05 | Mirell | 'allo |
| 19:37.03 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@70.249.150.251) |
| 19:39.22 | *** join/#edev davidc__ (n=davidc__@S01060002b360aacd.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 19:55.32 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-3028.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:56.22 | prpplague | davidc__: whats cookin? |
| 19:56.38 | davidc__ | not much.. going out to help a friend buy a used car shortly |
| 20:01.33 | prpplague | davidc__: ahh fun |
| 20:01.44 | prpplague | davidc__: don't buy a hyundai, hehe |
| 20:02.15 | davidc__ | prpplague: hah, nah its some old VW.. he just wants me along because I'm much more of a mechanical person than him |
| 20:02.33 | prpplague | davidc__: ahh ok |
| 20:11.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/853773 |
| 20:12.41 | prpplague | yea still looks like you have something not set properly |
| 20:13.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how big is your uncompressed rootfs? |
| 20:13.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: -rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 14M 2008-01-13 11:32 rootfs.arm.ext2 |
| 20:14.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: remember, anything bigger than 10mb won't work |
| 20:14.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: initrd was designed to do very small startups |
| 20:15.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't know how to get it any smaller and have what I need in the kernel. |
| 20:15.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Or is this my final kernel?? |
| 20:19.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: has nothing to do with the kernel |
| 20:19.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: has to do with the roofs |
| 20:20.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: besides, you don't have to use initrd for everything |
| 20:20.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just like we discussed, you can use a combination of several different options |
| 20:21.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Kernel modules increase the size of the rootfs. |
| 20:21.40 | RobotGuy | I have a 2 GB Thumb Drive now. |
| 20:22.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh you need to filebin.ca me a copy, i think you've got something incorrect |
| 20:22.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: send me a copy of your kernel config too |
| 20:22.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am sure I do. Just the rootfs? |
| 20:22.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 20:24.14 | RobotGuy | I need to get a good embedded Linux book. |
| 20:26.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: landley and i are working on writing one, but i suspect it will be too late for you, as you probably be up to speed by the time it's available |
| 20:34.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how much did you pay for your 2gb thumb drive? |
| 20:35.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: $19.95 |
| 20:35.10 | prpplague | ahh thats not bad at all |
| 20:35.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I thought so too, which is why I went ahead and got it. |
| 20:35.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: They had a 4 GB for $34.95 but I could not afford it. |
| 20:36.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ho ho hum |
| 20:36.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: did you send me your kernel config? |
| 20:36.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: PNY brand at Best Buy of all places. No not yet, hang on. |
| 20:39.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Uploading rootfs now |
| 20:40.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://filebin.ca/fcydxp/rootfs.arm.ext2.gz or http://filebin.ca/fcydxp |
| 20:43.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://filebin.ca/kzcujj/walter.kernel.config |
| 20:45.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why do you need support for a.out and ecoff? |
| 20:46.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, I don't really. I forgot to take that out. |
| 20:47.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just removed that support. |
| 20:48.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: are you doing 802.11 right now? |
| 20:48.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not at present, but I will be as soon as I get Hammer onto W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 20:49.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could remove that for now. I also yanked support for TCP/IP even though I will need that fairly soon. |
| 20:50.25 | prpplague | eh gads |
| 20:50.33 | prpplague | you have a ton of modules turned on |
| 20:50.34 | RobotGuy | What? |
| 20:50.42 | RobotGuy | I know that. |
| 20:51.00 | prpplague | are you currently using a usb to ethernet adapter? |
| 20:51.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, but isn't that needed for the Gadget Ethernet? |
| 20:52.20 | GPSFan | RobotGuy: why do you have stuff in /usr/include in your rootfs? |
| 20:52.39 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: No idea. I did not know that was there. |
| 20:53.04 | GPSFan | it's 1.2M uncompressed. I don't think you need all those .h files there. |
| 20:53.20 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: I can just remove them then. |
| 20:53.41 | GPSFan | well buildroot put them there, I think that's not right. |
| 20:54.13 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@70.249.150.251) |
| 20:54.24 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: Those should only be needed if I was going to have a full dev system on Hammer. |
| 20:54.34 | SpeedEvil | Fumes are good for you. |
| 20:54.36 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 20:54.54 | GPSFan | RobotGuy: probably not going to work too well with only 32M of memory. |
| 20:55.17 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: How so? |
| 20:55.24 | prpplague | are you currently using a usb to ethernet adapter? |
| 20:55.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No. I do need the Gadget Ethernet though, which is USB. |
| 20:56.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, the rule of thumb on the embedded dev, don't enable the option until you need it |
| 20:56.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you have way way way too many items turned on |
| 20:57.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh baclight and lcd support? |
| 20:57.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. What would you turn OFF then? Not I2C. Not SPI. |
| 20:57.09 | GPSFan | RobotGuy: I take that back, some folks have done native compilations on the sipit Z1 which has only 16M memory. so you might get it to work. |
| 20:57.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea turn those off for starters |
| 20:57.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What besides backlight? |
| 20:58.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe too many to list |
| 20:58.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: editing now |
| 20:58.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. |
| 20:58.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you going to use the buzzer on the carrier? |
| 20:59.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have not gotten completely into the embedded mindset yet. Still working on that. :D |
| 20:59.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: or the pushbutton or the led? |
| 20:59.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want my buzzer. :) I would like the pushbutton and leds |
| 20:59.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Got to have some output devices and input to play with. :) |
| 21:00.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I must have I2C and SPI. |
| 21:01.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but do you need them now? |
| 21:01.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the i2c and spi that is? |
| 21:01.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Absolutely! I will be using I2C to communicate with dsPICs and other I2C devices. SPI also. |
| 21:02.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: My ADC chips use SPI |
| 21:02.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but do you need them right at this exact instance? |
| 21:02.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: are the dspics already wired up? |
| 21:02.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: is the adc already wired up? |
| 21:02.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not at this exact instance, now. Nothing is wired up yet. |
| 21:02.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, rule of thumb, don't turn it on untill you need it |
| 21:03.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The dsPICs and such are my first project for Hammer and W.A.L.T.E.R. so will be needed right way so I can work on that. |
| 21:03.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: the I2C dsPIC code is already done. |
| 21:04.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: trust me |
| 21:04.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How can I expect to work with the dsPICs and SPI stuff if it is not in my kernel? |
| 21:05.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, you have to get some things set up first |
| 21:05.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: trust me |
| 21:05.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I need to know what I have to have setup, besides my thumb drive for /usr and my Gadget Ethernet. |
| 21:06.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: those are the basics |
| 21:06.14 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.71.16) |
| 21:06.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Just those and nothing else?? |
| 21:06.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I might be starting to grok this a little bit now.. |
| 21:08.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I restructured some stuff on the Wiki earlier, getting ready to add new stuff. |
| 21:08.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok so, i had a quick look, all you need to turn on is the tcp/ip stuff and the ethernet gadget driver, i'll post a config |
| 21:08.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i was watching |
| 21:08.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 21:09.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Already got Gadget turned on, so just need to turn TCP/IP back on. |
| 21:10.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you need to start with the hammer-config |
| 21:10.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: copy that back to .config |
| 21:10.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do a make oldconfig |
| 21:10.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Am I starting from scratch then? |
| 21:10.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 21:10.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Argh |
| 21:10.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you have way to much turned on |
| 21:10.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. |
| 21:11.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: once you have the config back in place |
| 21:11.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So I just turn Gadget and TCP/IP on? |
| 21:11.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 21:11.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 21:11.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: included in the kernel not as modules |
| 21:11.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: set the gadget to the usb ethernet driver |
| 21:14.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://filebin.ca/rhknvx/walter-config |
| 21:14.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that should work as a started |
| 21:15.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you need to get two things working first |
| 21:15.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you need to make sure you can mount your thumbdrive |
| 21:16.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: and you need to get the usb ethernet working to your host pc |
| 21:16.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i assume thats what you need to do some dev |
| 21:16.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: serial console doesn't work well for you? just need tcp/ip? |
| 21:16.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, I want to be able to get to the internet from W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 21:17.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all the time ? |
| 21:17.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: or just during dev? |
| 21:17.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes. W.A.L.T.E.R. will be an internet robot. I have some very cool ideas! |
| 21:17.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what do you need internet for on walter? |
| 21:17.46 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:18.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So people can look at him and I will have a web interface for him. |
| 21:18.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: well once you get those working, you can add each item in one at a time |
| 21:18.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. |
| 21:18.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you add a ton of stuff at once, you have no clue what item is creating a problem |
| 21:18.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: gotta run a errand, be back in 10 |
| 21:18.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Very true. :) Got it. I think. Maybe. :D |
| 21:18.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 21:32.34 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:32.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: have decided on an api for the communcation to the dspics? |
| 21:32.56 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 21:33.11 | landley | prpplague: hiya. |
| 21:33.13 | landley | I have email heading your way right now... |
| 21:33.38 | prpplague | uh oh, should i be worried? |
| 21:33.45 | landley | I reviewed the hammer kernel patch, and some questions from last night. |
| 21:33.58 | landley | My outbox from when I was working at starbucks. :) |
| 21:37.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Will I need the libusb and the usbutils stuff? |
| 21:37.32 | RobotGuy | landley: Hello |
| 21:37.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I am going to do an API for the dsPICs and anything else I connect to Hammer. |
| 21:38.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Both Python and Squeak for sure. |
| 21:38.25 | prpplague | landley: lordy, lots of questions there |
| 21:38.41 | prpplague | landley: you want me to address them all in an email back? |
| 21:39.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I already have an API started for Python and the Lynxmotion SSC-32. |
| 21:40.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: and the protocol for for actual i2c and spi? |
| 21:41.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: dsPICs will be I2C. |
| 21:41.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i understand that, but do you have a protocol lined out for the i2c |
| 21:41.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ? |
| 21:41.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Also the Microchip MCP23017 GPIO expander. |
| 21:42.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think the mcp already has a linux driver |
| 21:42.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have the upper level I2C stuff, but not the lower level hardware stuff. |
| 21:43.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, the lower level i2c protocol is going to be what slows you down |
| 21:43.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I love that MCP23017 chip. |
| 21:44.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Right now I am using the I2C with PICs as master and dsPICs as slaves on I2C. |
| 21:44.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I can jumper select a PIC for I2C slave or master and the device address, but the slave code is not yet working. |
| 21:45.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Will I need the libusb and the usbutils stuff in my rootfs? |
| 21:45.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh so you do have the protocol worked out |
| 21:46.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they are working now with the pics? |
| 21:46.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: depends on what you are using, but for the basics, no |
| 21:46.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes. I just need to write the low level I2C stuff. Master for PIC and Slave for dsPIC works already thanks to code by another friend. |
| 21:46.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hmm, i'm confused |
| 21:47.35 | prpplague | landley: i don;t where to begin on responding to your email on the kernel patch |
| 21:48.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am using the friend's code as a base for what I am doing. |
| 21:49.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Right now only a regular 18F PIC can be Master and a dsPIC can be Slave. I want to make each one be either Master or Slave depending on jumpers. |
| 21:50.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok well we'll deal with it later |
| 21:50.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think you are probably missing a piece of functionality |
| 21:51.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What will we deal with later? I just need to write low level I2C code for Hammer. The dsPICs already work as I2C slaves. |
| 21:51.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the low level i2c i/o functionality |
| 21:52.00 | landley | prpplague: do you have a broken up version of the patch? |
| 21:52.05 | landley | Sending it upstream involves breaking it up. |
| 21:52.17 | landley | Also, what is the status of (plans for?) pushing it upstream to the arm tree? |
| 21:52.23 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-22.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 21:52.39 | landley | prpplague: addressing them here is fine. :) |
| 21:52.45 | landley | I'd send my questions to a mailing list if I knew which one. |
| 21:52.49 | prpplague | landley: yea i have them broken up |
| 21:52.50 | landley | maybe cc: linux-arm. :) |
| 21:53.13 | prpplague | landley: the most of the code is simply test code for the hammer carrier board and is only usable for that |
| 21:53.20 | landley | Do you plan on pushing them upstream? |
| 21:53.26 | landley | I mentioned the categories I see... |
| 21:53.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I know I need the low level I2C stuff. |
| 21:53.28 | prpplague | landley: the other sections are code that theorectically go upstream |
| 21:53.51 | prpplague | landley: the problem i've had in the last 6 months is that tons of patches have been going ignored |
| 21:53.56 | RobotGuy | landley: The forums should work good for stuff also. |
| 21:54.08 | landley | prpplague: I can follow up on it if you want to filter 'em through me. |
| 21:54.10 | prpplague | landley: so i'm not entirely sure if i will spend the time to submit them and baby sit them |
| 21:54.17 | landley | I can babysit. |
| 21:54.30 | landley | Been there, done that... |
| 21:54.56 | landley | What forums? |
| 21:55.17 | RobotGuy | landley: The Tin Can Tools forums. |
| 21:55.28 | landley | Didn't know there were any. |
| 21:56.12 | RobotGuy | I am in the process of setting up my own forums, wiki, and blog on a new domain I just got. |
| 21:56.12 | landley | prplague: so, questions. |
| 21:56.31 | landley | mach-tgt_hammer.c depends on what other patches? |
| 21:57.01 | landley | The five main chunks seem to be: mach-tgt_hammer, hammer beeper, enc28j60 network driver, s3c2410 USB controller, and hammer-config. |
| 21:57.21 | landley | The beeper, network driver, and usb driver are all separate things that don't seem to depend on anything else. |
| 21:57.30 | landley | (They may not be very _useful_ by themselves, but they look like they'd compile.) |
| 21:57.57 | landley | The hammer target .c file probably references at least the USB controller...? |
| 21:58.20 | landley | What were the time.c and clock.c patches for? |
| 21:58.44 | landley | The enc28j60 driver comments are over half the email, feel free to get back to me on that later. :) |
| 21:58.54 | landley | Half of it's about comments and whitespace tweaks anyway. :P |
| 21:59.16 | landley | What's the ioremap.c tweak for? |
| 21:59.27 | landley | And the mach-types update seems totally unrelated... is hammer dependent on that? |
| 22:00.23 | landley | My other two emails have small questions, about the realtime clock on the samsung SOC and about .size in the hammer kernel. |
| 22:00.40 | prpplague | landley: sorry lag |
| 22:01.09 | prpplague | landley: the mach-tct_hammer stuff can be done as a single patch |
| 22:01.45 | prpplague | landley: the ioremap.c tweak is to fix a problem in the usage of bUG() |
| 22:01.54 | prpplague | landley: its been totally ignored since 2.6.16 |
| 22:02.08 | landley | prpplague: who did you submit it to? |
| 22:02.19 | prpplague | landley: the mach-types is a file thats registered with the arm subsystem, it has already been updated with the tct hammer info |
| 22:02.30 | prpplague | landley: rmk's patch system and LAK |
| 22:03.06 | prpplague | landley: the enc28j60 is a quick and dirty driver test, it was mainly included for GPSFan to tinker with |
| 22:03.19 | prpplague | landley: i have a version i've been meaning to submit to netdev for ages |
| 22:03.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This one booted, and it found my Thumb Drive, but there seems to be a problem with that. http://www.pastebin.ca/853941 |
| 22:04.36 | landley | prpplague: ok, of the five chunks I mentioned above, which has the _least_ external dependencies before it can actually be used? |
| 22:04.55 | landley | Is the enc28j60 the "gadget nic"? |
| 22:05.03 | landley | Or something else? |
| 22:05.32 | prpplague | landley: mach-tct_hammer.c can be fully submitted to rmk's patch for inclusion |
| 22:05.46 | prpplague | landley: no its a spi based 10baseT device |
| 22:06.35 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_How_to_Enc28j60 |
| 22:07.42 | landley | Ah, that thing. |
| 22:07.56 | landley | Right, I haven't got one of those. |
| 22:08.33 | landley | Ok, what's the minimal patch needed just to boot the nail board up to a serial console? |
| 22:08.50 | landley | In theory, the enc28j60 patch is seperate, but will the hammer tgt file build without that? |
| 22:08.58 | landley | (And does the defconfig for hammer mention that?) |
| 22:09.12 | landley | Might be easiest to get the base hammer support in first, and then add the drivers one at a time. |
| 22:09.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:09.41 | landley | Getting patches into the kernel is about 75% a question of proper sequencing and getting signed-off-by lines in the right order. |
| 22:09.46 | prpplague | landley: ok 2/3 replied |
| 22:09.52 | landley | Yay. |
| 22:10.07 | landley | Sorry to flood you with stuff. I tend to do that when something catches my interest... |
| 22:11.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmmmm, no /dev/sda1 device was created for my thumb drive. I must have to set that up. |
| 22:12.47 | prpplague | landley: correct, the tct hammer support would be first |
| 22:12.56 | prpplague | landley: thats the minumal needed to boot |
| 22:14.01 | landley | Does it work by itself, without the three new drivers? |
| 22:14.18 | prpplague | landley: yea, the problem is that is that most of the patches we've submitted in the last 6months to a year have been ignored, so managment is a little skeptical about spending the time and resources |
| 22:14.20 | prpplague | landley: yep |
| 22:14.27 | prpplague | landley: the other drivers are not needed |
| 22:14.36 | prpplague | landley: there were done just as tests for the carrier board |
| 22:14.48 | prpplague | landley: they would never be submitted upstream |
| 22:17.37 | landley | prpplague: break 'em up and send them to me, and I'll read them, critique them, do the signed-off-by, and then push them through the proper channels. |
| 22:18.59 | prpplague | landley: you sure you wanna baby sit that stuff? |
| 22:19.31 | landley | yeah, I know... |
| 22:19.36 | landley | But for the moment, I've got the time. |
| 22:22.17 | prpplague | landley: ok well on monday i'll send you the patches broken up |
| 22:22.45 | prpplague | landley: maybe your notariaty will help in getting the patches moving |
| 22:23.25 | landley | Unlikely, I just tend to know how to work bureaucracies. |
| 22:23.55 | prpplague | landley: http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/patches/viewpatch.php?id=4562/1 |
| 22:24.13 | prpplague | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/patches/viewpatch.php?id=4563/1 |
| 22:28.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Got a minute? |
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| 22:30.40 | landley | prpplague: it looks like you're the one who discarded the first one? |
| 22:31.17 | landley | And the second, too... |
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| 22:32.56 | RobotGuy | landley: Have you setup a thumb drive on hammer? |
| 22:33.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 22:33.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: several times |
| 22:33.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmmm, mine is recognized but not quite working. |
| 22:33.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: whats not working? |
| 22:33.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you'll need to be more specific |
| 22:33.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Can't access it apparently. |
| 22:34.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did you see my pastebin? |
| 22:34.22 | prpplague | no sorry i dropped out after i posted the urls to landley |
| 22:34.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/853941 |
| 22:34.48 | prpplague | landley: you see those patches? |
| 22:35.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea that is related to the /proc entry generation failure |
| 22:36.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you passwd issue |
| 22:36.16 | landley | prpplague: saw 'em, and commented that you seemed to ahve been the one who discarded them. |
| 22:36.43 | landley | Did you post them to the arm-linux mailing list for review, or just directly into the bug tracker? |
| 22:36.47 | prpplague | landley: because the window for accepting them passed |
| 22:36.57 | prpplague | landley: yea i posted to lak as well |
| 22:37.16 | landley | Send 'em to me with the appropriate signed-off-by lines and I'll pester appropriately. |
| 22:37.23 | prpplague | landley: thats like 4th time i've submitted them |
| 22:37.54 | prpplague | landley: will do |
| 22:37.54 | landley | Send them to me, and I'll push them upstream. |
| 22:37.56 | landley | ok. |
| 22:38.41 | prpplague | landley: i'll i'll forward you the patches tomorrow after noon |
| 22:40.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for the buildroot/target/device/samsung/device_table.txt file you need to duplicate the /sys entry and change it to /proc |
| 22:40.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its not creating a /proc to mount on startup |
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| 22:44.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, I copied the /sys entry and changed it to /proc. |
| 22:44.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do I have to do anything there for my thumb drive also? |
| 22:45.18 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:45.29 | SpeedEvil | if you want it to mount automatically |
| 22:45.47 | RobotGuy | It is recognized as /dev/sda1 |
| 22:45.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no, just re make your your initrd |
| 22:45.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 22:46.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then when it is recognized as /dev/sda you can mount it |
| 22:46.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i.e. mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/thumb |
| 22:46.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: or whatever dir you want |
| 22:49.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Can I somehow make it be /usr? |
| 22:49.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: If I move everyting from /usr to thumb and remount? |
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| 22:54.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: My uncompressed rootfs has gotten to big. :( |
| 22:54.29 | RobotGuy | -rw-r--r-- 1 linuxguy staff 13M 2008-01-13 14:52 rootfs.arm.ext2 |
| 22:55.21 | landley | prpplague: any opinion on the RTC issue in nail? (I should check my email for replies...) |
| 22:57.33 | prpplague | landley: the rtc only functions when the system is powered on |
| 22:57.44 | prpplague | landley: it doesn't continue when the system is off |
| 22:58.06 | prpplague | landley: basically its like a pc with a bad bios battery |
| 22:58.09 | landley | I suspected as much. |
| 22:58.22 | landley | Is there any way to add such a battery (or capacitor or something) to the nail board? |
| 22:58.30 | prpplague | landley: the sledge hammer will have full rtc support |
| 22:58.32 | landley | Quite possibly the pins aren't brought out on hammer, or it would be too expensive... |
| 22:58.40 | landley | sledge hammer isn't out yet, though. |
| 22:58.56 | landley | Plus I'm under the impression it'll be physicall larger, and more expensive. |
| 22:58.58 | prpplague | landley: i'd have to look at the schematic |
| 22:59.06 | landley | It would be cool. |
| 22:59.07 | prpplague | landley: it will be able the same cosr |
| 22:59.27 | landley | If it can't be done, ok. But if it _can_, it makes the device seem much more like a real separate computer. |
| 22:59.33 | SpeedEvil | It'd need an extra crystal I thought. |
| 22:59.54 | prpplague | the crystal is there, its the power support for when the main power is removed |
| 23:00.25 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I only saw one on the hammer board photos. |
| 23:00.33 | prpplague | landley: what would use it for? |
| 23:00.47 | landley | prpplague: so that when you boot the onboard Linux, it knows what time it is. |
| 23:01.03 | landley | As I said, makes it seem much more like a real linux system. |
| 23:01.20 | prpplague | landley: ahh |
| 23:01.27 | landley | (And if you set the nail up as a little webserver or something, having it know the time when it's rebooted is actually useful.) |
| 23:01.31 | SpeedEvil | landley: I don't personally find that vital. You can serialise stuff using boot-count. And if you've got network or GPS, you have real-time. |
| 23:01.45 | landley | You can sort of fake it with ntp, but that depends on your use case. |
| 23:01.53 | landley | Not all use cases are connected to the internet. |
| 23:02.02 | SpeedEvil | if it's a webserver, simply have it call ntp before it brings up the server. |
| 23:02.03 | SpeedEvil | True |
| 23:02.13 | landley | Serialize != having correct time. |
| 23:02.18 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not. |
| 23:02.21 | landley | It's partly a psychological thing. |
| 23:02.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: its pretty darn small |
| 23:02.47 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: the photo was bad is my excuse :) |
| 23:02.53 | landley | Back in the early 80's, XT systems used to prompt you for the time when DOS booted up. |
| 23:03.01 | landley | Then the AT introduced a battery backed up clock. |
| 23:03.24 | landley | A system _without_ a clock makes people think it's less powerful than a 16 bit IBM PC-AT from 1983. |
| 23:03.35 | landley | Whether or not that's actually true, it's a perception issue. |
| 23:03.44 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I realised yesterday the PSP LCD will simply glue onto the LCD connector. (with only 8 big mono, or 8 bit colour of course) |
| 23:04.02 | SpeedEvil | And places are selling those as low as $35 shipped. |
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| 23:04.55 | SpeedEvil | currently trying to find info on the NDS screens. |
| 23:05.15 | SpeedEvil | ($15 shipped) |
| 23:05.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is there a way to really mess up a thumb drive? |
| 23:06.06 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: not generally - you can simply refdisk it. |
| 23:06.17 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I formatted it ext2 |
| 23:06.26 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: at least newwer drives |
| 23:06.42 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: older ones could get a bit wierd. |
| 23:08.08 | RobotGuy | Dec 31 17:02:15 walter user.info kernel: attempt to access beyond end of device |
| 23:08.08 | RobotGuy | Dec 31 17:02:15 walter user.info kernel: ram0: rw=1, want=24386, limit=20480 |
| 23:08.23 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Mine is a brand new PNY 2 GB thumb drive |
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| 23:09.03 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: That must be the problem. I did not fdisk the thumb drive |
| 23:09.07 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: that does not seem to be trying to access the usb |
| 23:09.26 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: It isn't accessing the USB - something to do with ramdisk I think. |
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| 23:11.20 | SpeedEvil | where is the error occurring? |
| 23:11.34 | SpeedEvil | Is it possible you've screwed up the fstab? |
| 23:12.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that error is related to the jffs2 partition |
| 23:12.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. Is it bad and how do I fix it? |
| 23:13.47 | landley | prpplague: I showed you this already, right? http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/10/kopin-lays-claim-to-worlds-smallest-color-svga-display/ |
| 23:14.27 | SpeedEvil | kopin IIRC will sell ones. |
| 23:14.39 | SpeedEvil | but rather expensively from their web-store |
| 23:14.48 | SpeedEvil | $50 for a small mono one. |
| 23:15.22 | landley | Oh I'm not saying it's cheap, I'm just interested in how small it is. |
| 23:15.32 | landley | I've said for years that displays can get smaller as long as the _resolution_ increases. |
| 23:15.43 | landley | Although I suspect they're pushing it unless you stick a magnifying lens in front of the sucker. |
| 23:16.01 | landley | (Which is entirely possible, I remember the micro-mirror displays from 1995 or so...) |
| 23:16.02 | SpeedEvil | it's meant for magnified use. |
| 23:16.05 | SpeedEvil | probably 2*3mm or so |
| 23:16.18 | landley | Backlight the heck out of it and use it in a projector... |
| 23:16.20 | SpeedEvil | actually - 1.5*2 is more likely |
| 23:16.22 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 23:16.29 | SpeedEvil | Head-mounted displays |
| 23:16.37 | landley | I could see that. |
| 23:16.54 | landley | Or the eyepiece of video cameras. |
| 23:16.59 | RobotGuy | Oh, I just thought of the perfect user interface for my Hammer. |
| 23:17.02 | SpeedEvil | digital cameras too |
| 23:18.02 | SpeedEvil | bluetooth can be fun. |
| 23:18.45 | RobotGuy | I have a serial bluetooth DIL module and two of the RGB24T screen keys www.screenkeys.com |
| 23:18.58 | SpeedEvil | how much are the keys? |
| 23:19.41 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Spark Fun has them for I think around $38.95 each for what I have. I got mine free. |
| 23:19.50 | SpeedEvil | samples? |
| 23:22.32 | RobotGuy | They are more expensive: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8493 |
| 23:30.34 | Mirell | My cell phone carrier is IBM now on my phone... |
| 23:31.25 | RobotGuy | I can not mount my thumb drive. |
| 23:31.37 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: does it show up on lsusb? |
| 23:32.03 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I don't have those programs. |
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| 23:32.14 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: usbutils?? |
| 23:32.19 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: hang on |
| 23:33.01 | SpeedEvil | Do you have /proc/bus/usb/ |
| 23:33.06 | SpeedEvil | and the file devices in it? |
| 23:33.50 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes, but it is empty. |
| 23:35.27 | SpeedEvil | Try mount /proc/bus/usb /proc/bus/usb -t usbfs |
| 23:36.27 | SpeedEvil | then does the device file show up |
| 23:36.47 | SpeedEvil | that relies on x CONFIG_USB_DEVICEFS: |
| 23:36.52 | SpeedEvil | being set in the kernel |
| 23:37.04 | SpeedEvil | you will get a file /proc/bus/usb/devices x |
| 23:37.04 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.04 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.37 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: OK, mounted that and now I can see my devices, including thumb drive. |
| 23:38.16 | SpeedEvil | right. |
| 23:38.39 | SpeedEvil | do you have scsi compiled into your kernel, or as a module? |
| 23:38.46 | SpeedEvil | and sd_mod |
| 23:39.57 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: SCSI is there. |
| 23:40.51 | SpeedEvil | as modular, or built in? |
| 23:42.03 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have the DEVICEFS configured in kernel |
| 23:42.09 | RobotGuy | USB_DEVICEFS |
| 23:42.32 | SpeedEvil | that's not for usb storage |
| 23:42.34 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I think SCSI is modular |
| 23:42.44 | SpeedEvil | modprobe usb-storage |
| 23:42.48 | SpeedEvil | and sd_mod |
| 23:50.20 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Somehow I did not have all the modules I needed. Now I will have them. |
| 23:50.30 | SpeedEvil | It's easy to get wrong |
| 23:50.48 | SpeedEvil | Actually - there may be a 'simple mass storage module' |
| 23:50.52 | SpeedEvil | which may be smaller. |
| 23:51.14 | SpeedEvil | But it still doesn't integrate SCSI I think |
| 23:51.30 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: We shall see soon enough. :) |
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