| 00:01.06 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: The only module I have for USB is usb-storage. That does not seem right. |
| 00:02.52 | RobotGuy | OK, it's right. I have usbcore in the kernel, not as a module. |
| 00:03.51 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. welcomes you to The Dynaplex Network Robotics Laboratory! |
| 00:03.51 | RobotGuy | walter login: |
| 00:09.07 | *** join/#edev ccjoe (n=ccjoe@75-169-14-207.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:13.02 | RobotGuy | I got my Lynxmotion BRAT all servoed up now and connected to an SSC-32. |
| 00:16.08 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:16.38 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Problem though. No proc mounted and such again. :( |
| 00:17.01 | SpeedEvil | Add proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 |
| 00:17.05 | SpeedEvil | to /etc/fstab |
| 00:17.33 | RobotGuy | /dev/root / ext2 rw,noauto 0 1 |
| 00:17.33 | RobotGuy | proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 |
| 00:17.33 | RobotGuy | devpts /dev/pts devpts defaults,gid=5,mode=620 0 0 |
| 00:17.33 | RobotGuy | tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0 |
| 00:17.33 | RobotGuy | /dev/sda1 /opt ext2 defaults 0 0 |
| 00:22.20 | RobotGuy | I don't know what is wrong. It may have to do with that ram0 error. |
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| 04:29.15 | landley | Apparnetly, there is a product called "computer on a stick". |
| 04:29.16 | landley | http://www.fingergear.com/computer_on_a_stick.php |
| 04:29.19 | landley | I am amused. |
| 04:31.04 | RobotGuy | Interesting. I think it is STMicro that has a dev board on a stick. |
| 04:33.05 | Mirell | Sleepy. |
| 04:37.02 | RobotGuy | http://www.hitex.com/products.html |
| 04:37.25 | RobotGuy | and http://www.hitex.com/lpc-stick/ |
| 04:39.07 | RobotGuy | I'm sure Nail Board will be better though. |
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| 04:42.38 | RobotGuy | Is anyone here who could help me figure out how to make ram0 larger? |
| 06:32.38 | RobotGuy | landley: You there? |
| 06:33.08 | RobotGuy | Good night everyone. |
| 06:50.56 | landley | er, yes? |
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| 13:37.46 | prpplague | boo |
| 13:37.58 | RobotGuy | Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek |
| 13:38.36 | RobotGuy | I fixed my boot problem. :D |
| 13:39.02 | RobotGuy | I can even mount my thumb drive now! |
| 13:40.43 | prpplague | lovely |
| 13:41.02 | RobotGuy | I am tweaking for memory size now. |
| 13:41.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you ever see the movie "Contact" with jody foster? |
| 13:41.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Several times. |
| 13:41.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: one of my favorite quotes "small moves sparks, small moves" |
| 13:41.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This must apply here in someway? |
| 13:42.10 | prpplague | <RobotGuy> I fixed my boot problem. :D |
| 13:42.10 | prpplague | <RobotGuy> I can even mount my thumb drive now! |
| 13:42.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Big move? |
| 13:42.41 | prpplague | embedded dev is the art of making small logical goals and reaching them |
| 13:42.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ok, OK. |
| 13:42.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no, i mean you are doing better by doing smaller moves |
| 13:43.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahh, OK. |
| 13:43.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: verses how you were earlier |
| 13:43.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I got this working last night. Now I just have to write a small init to load usb-storage and mount the thumb drive. |
| 13:43.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: But this has to be done early in the boot process. |
| 13:44.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: add it to the inittab |
| 13:44.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: view some of the other entries such as the /proc and /sys |
| 13:44.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: as well as the jffs2 |
| 13:44.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: on /mnt/flash |
| 13:44.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 13:45.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am mounting my thumb drive on /opt |
| 13:45.39 | prpplague | ok |
| 13:45.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just have to add a few more entries to that devices file. |
| 13:57.09 | *** join/#edev hapchap (n=hapchap@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:57.24 | hapchap | prpplague: hey |
| 13:57.39 | hapchap | prpplague: your in early |
| 13:57.42 | prpplague | hapchap: morning |
| 13:57.48 | prpplague | hapchap: yea got a ton of work to do |
| 13:57.54 | hapchap | prpplague: ahhhh |
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| 14:01.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: the issue file from buildroot/target/device/Samsung/Hammer/target_skeleton/etc is not replacing the one in buildroot/project_build_arm/walter/root/etc |
| 14:02.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what? |
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| 14:04.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: the issue file from buildroot/target/device/Samsung/Hammer/target_skeleton/etc is not replacing the one in buildroot/project_build_arm/<project dir>/root/etc |
| 14:04.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what? |
| 14:04.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i don't understand your statement |
| 14:05.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: the buildroot/target/device/Samsung/Hammer/target_skeleton/etc/issue is not replacing the one in buildroot/project_build_arm/<project dir>/root/etc/issue. |
| 14:06.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: When I make a new rootfs |
| 14:06.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its not suppose to |
| 14:06.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This should override the configuration file if it exists. |
| 14:06.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the issue file is generated on the fly during the build |
| 14:07.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Or it should not be included in the target_skeleton at all. |
| 14:07.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it's included as a place holder |
| 14:07.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why? |
| 14:08.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so that it doesn't break older buildroot packages that expect a issue file to be present during build |
| 14:08.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, dang. Drats. |
| 14:08.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why |
| 14:08.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there shouldn't be any problems with that |
| 14:09.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Fix older buildroot packages, so they don't break. :D :D |
| 14:09.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: again, why is that an issue? |
| 14:09.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just change your issue statement in your config |
| 14:09.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Because I want to set my issue file for the rootfs build. |
| 14:09.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Only allows a single line. |
| 14:10.15 | prpplague | uh ok |
| 14:12.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: comment out the lines in project/project.mk |
| 14:13.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then the etc/issue won;t get overwritten |
| 14:14.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. :) |
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| 14:23.11 | RobotGuy | Nice split |
| 14:25.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Apparently running modprobe from inittab does not work or maybe I need a special option. I will look. |
| 14:26.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: generally you'd write a script to do what you need and execute the script from inittab |
| 14:27.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: inittab from the target_skeleton/etc did not replace buildroot/project_build_arm/walter/root/etc/inittab |
| 14:28.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: need to run: make rootclean |
| 14:28.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: after makeing changes to the target skeleton |
| 14:28.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: in order to "repopulate" the rootfs |
| 14:29.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, OK |
| 14:29.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: A small pain, but OK. |
| 14:32.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: during the build make says "hmm, the root fs is already populate, no need to populate it again, moving on...." |
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| 14:34.39 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 14:34.54 | RobotGuy | Good Morning! |
| 14:37.51 | RobotGuy | I am not going to bother optimizing for memory, unless I really have to. |
| 14:40.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Now that I have my initrd setup, do I just make a new rootfs for my thumb drive? |
| 14:44.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: depends on what you want to do |
| 14:45.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want to put software on my Hammer, like Python, Squeak (soon), etc. |
| 14:46.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe yea well there are a ton of different ways to do it |
| 14:46.21 | SpeedEvil | You probably just want to use the initrd to boot off the SD |
| 14:46.25 | SpeedEvil | USB rather |
| 14:46.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just want something easy please. |
| 14:46.34 | SpeedEvil | basically think of the initrd like a boot floppy |
| 14:46.52 | SpeedEvil | It has enough stuff to mount the usb |
| 14:47.14 | SpeedEvil | And then everything remaining is on the USB |
| 14:47.14 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: the thumb drive is not getting mounted, but usb-stoage IS getting loaded. |
| 14:47.25 | SpeedEvil | Ok - can you mount it manuallt? |
| 14:47.27 | SpeedEvil | y |
| 14:47.39 | SpeedEvil | without needing to load more modules |
| 14:47.43 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes, I can mount the thumb manually. |
| 14:47.55 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: The needed modules are already loaded. |
| 14:49.57 | SpeedEvil | What's the last script-file called on the initrc - and are there any error messages related to the SD? |
| 14:49.59 | SpeedEvil | USB |
| 14:50.13 | SpeedEvil | initram I mean |
| 14:50.24 | SpeedEvil | initrd even |
| 14:52.50 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: There is no script file. |
| 14:53.25 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: mount -a gets called from inittab |
| 14:54.00 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: /sbin/modprobe usb-storage and THEN /bin/mount -a |
| 14:54.10 | SpeedEvil | add a sleep 10 |
| 14:54.15 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I think there is not enough time for the usb-storage to load. |
| 14:54.24 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: OK |
| 14:56.21 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Trying that now. |
| 14:59.46 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: It works! Thanks! |
| 15:03.24 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:11.55 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. welcomes you to The Dynaplex Network Robotics Laboratory! |
| 15:11.55 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.55 | RobotGuy | walter login: |
| 15:20.36 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 15:20.59 | T0mW | prpplague: wassup? |
| 15:21.23 | prpplague | T0mW: work |
| 15:21.31 | prpplague | T0mW: you? |
| 15:22.12 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, I've been writing a lot of perl code lately. the project is to port an older pascal dialect into a more modern one. whew, it is an old dialect. |
| 15:23.01 | T0mW | prpplague: basically, rip the source apart into a series of arrays of hashes of arrays, then massage it and spit it out in the new file format |
| 15:23.17 | T0mW | lotta recursion |
| 15:23.58 | T0mW | prpplague: meeting with the customer on Wednesday to show what I've done so far... |
| 15:24.33 | T0mW | prpplague: what are you working on? |
| 15:25.38 | prpplague | T0mW: gotta finish up with a bluetooth cradle tweak, tweak a couple of settings on a keyboard, and continue the dev on the power management/battery charger board for a new handheld |
| 15:25.45 | prpplague | T0mW: nothing fun |
| 15:25.59 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, I'll take my job over that one. |
| 15:26.20 | prpplague | T0mW: it's not bad, just not terribly interesting |
| 15:26.52 | T0mW | prpplague: I started reading the latest edition of Linux Device Drivers but haven't had time to write anything. |
| 15:28.41 | T0mW | prpplague: got an email from some group of engineers in Nepal looking to do some contract work. I've been considering it, I need to multiply my output somehow. |
| 15:28.52 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:29.09 | T0mW | :/ |
| 15:29.50 | T0mW | prpplague: drat, I need to partner with someone else just like me, maybe we both would benefit? |
| 15:30.49 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:36.56 | Mirell | Hmm...I have to attend a mandatory orientation thing this morning, and my boss is not pleased. |
| 15:37.17 | RobotGuy | Why an orientation? For what? |
| 15:38.02 | Mirell | RobotGuy: New hire. |
| 15:38.34 | RobotGuy | Mirell: You are orienting the new hire? |
| 15:39.39 | prpplague | Mirell is the new hire |
| 15:41.09 | RobotGuy | Oh! |
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| 15:57.52 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Greetings! |
| 15:58.12 | CosmicPenguin | hello |
| 15:58.19 | chouimat|work | hi CosmicPenguin |
| 15:58.25 | RobotGuy | How is everything today? |
| 15:58.30 | CosmicPenguin | the usual |
| 15:59.27 | RobotGuy | My Hammer boots now, and mounts my thumb drive. :) |
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| 16:47.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: There seems to be a libtool issue with libusb. |
| 16:47.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh? |
| 16:47.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes. |
| 16:47.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do tell |
| 16:48.09 | RobotGuy | make[2]: Entering directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/libusb-0.1.12' |
| 16:48.09 | RobotGuy | Making all in . |
| 16:48.09 | RobotGuy | make[3]: Entering directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/libusb-0.1.12' |
| 16:48.09 | RobotGuy | if /bin/sh ./libtool --mode=compile -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -g -O2 -MT usbpp.lo -MD -MP -MF ".deps/usbpp.Tpo" -c -o usbpp.lo usbpp.cpp; \ |
| 16:48.09 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:48.11 | RobotGuy | libtool: unrecognized option `-DHAVE_CONFIG_H' |
| 16:48.13 | RobotGuy | Try `libtool --help' for more information. |
| 16:48.15 | RobotGuy | make[3]: *** [usbpp.lo] Error 1 |
| 16:48.17 | RobotGuy | make[3]: Leaving directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/libusb-0.1.12' |
| 16:48.21 | RobotGuy | make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 16:48.23 | RobotGuy | make[2]: Leaving directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/libusb-0.1.12' |
| 16:48.25 | RobotGuy | make[1]: *** [all] Error 2 |
| 16:48.27 | RobotGuy | make[1]: Leaving directory `/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/libusb-0.1.12' |
| 16:48.29 | RobotGuy | make: *** [/src/hammer/buildroot/build_arm/staging_dir/lib/libusb.so] Error 2 |
| 16:48.31 | RobotGuy | linuxguy@intrepid </src/hammer/buildroot> |
| 16:53.09 | T0mW | RobotGuy: http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 16:53.54 | RobotGuy | I use pastebin.ca |
| 17:02.13 | CosmicPenguin | use something other then IRC |
| 17:02.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: please only paste to something like pastebin.ca |
| 17:03.14 | RobotGuy | Fine |
| 17:03.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: some people may be on slow irc clients or text based clients and long pastes cause a problem |
| 17:04.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: libtool is always an issue |
| 17:04.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what are you needing libusb for? just curious |
| 17:04.31 | CosmicPenguin | libusb == love |
| 17:05.34 | RobotGuy | usbutils and usbmount require it. |
| 17:06.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what are you using those for? |
| 17:07.04 | CosmicPenguin | I was very happy when I switched my dotpal code over to libusb |
| 17:07.06 | CosmicPenguin | works so much better |
| 17:07.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: USB stuff, of course. :) My thumb drive is not the only USB device I want to use. |
| 17:07.31 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: I like libusb. |
| 17:07.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: such as? |
| 17:08.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: USB WiFi, USB keyboard and mouse, USB Ethernet, etc. |
| 17:09.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: none of those need libusb |
| 17:10.15 | chouimat|work | CosmicPenguin: the problem wasn't libusb but the "ambiance of the project" |
| 17:10.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Can we just fix the build please? |
| 17:11.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll look when i have time |
| 17:17.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Alright. |
| 17:33.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like the -DHAVE_CONFIG_H is being passed and it shouldn't be |
| 17:35.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, in the .mk file, right? |
| 17:37.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no thats generated as part of the configure |
| 17:37.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looking now |
| 17:37.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
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| 17:47.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do we have a bug reporter like bugzilla? |
| 17:48.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: buildroot.busybox.net |
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| 17:48.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 17:48.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we are using standard buildroot, so if there is an issue, try a recent buildroot and report the bug |
| 17:49.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Alright. I will now that I know. :) |
| 17:53.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What is the proper way to build software to run off my thumb drive? |
| 17:54.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there isn't a single procedure, there are so many different options, it would be difficult to point out just one |
| 17:55.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, I am fairly sure just copying stuff to my thumb drive (/opt) is not proper.. Some stuff gets put in /etc for software. |
| 17:55.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Unless it would go to /opt/etc instead. |
| 17:56.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could maybe build the rootfs and use dd to copy it to my thumb drive after I upload it. |
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| 18:08.40 | RobotGuy | I am not sure how to setup to build software for my thumb drive mounted at /opt. |
| 18:36.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like libusb in buildroot has some bitrot |
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| 18:50.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That does not sound good. |
| 19:12.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like my build is failing due to the fact i've not built g++ |
| 19:14.28 | prpplague | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8530 |
| 19:14.38 | prpplague | that'd work well with the nail board, hehe |
| 19:23.12 | Mirell | Well, that's three hours of my life I'll never get back |
| 19:23.53 | adyer_ | HR is like that :-) |
| 19:27.27 | GPSFan | prpplague: quick question, and apex (in generel, not specifically the Hammer configuration) load the kernel from mmc/sd ?? |
| 19:27.37 | GPSFan | s/and/can |
| 19:28.11 | SpeedEvil | IIRC yes, but it's pin-strapped |
| 19:28.53 | SpeedEvil | Argh - don't have ht datasheet here |
| 19:46.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, it can, iirc T0mW is doing that |
| 19:48.49 | T0mW | GPSFan: yes, I do that with an S3C2410 board now: http://www.openhardware.net/SuperMuxPad4.gif |
| 19:49.19 | T0mW | GPSFan: however, Apex and the kernel is in Flash, the kernel boots the filesystem from the SD card. |
| 19:49.33 | chouimat|work | T0mW: nice board |
| 19:49.42 | T0mW | chouimat|work: thanks |
| 19:51.06 | T0mW | prpplague: what would be the possibility of running two ENC28J60 devices off the same SPI circuit? Possible to do withtout data loss on the ethernets? |
| 19:51.44 | T0mW | prpplague: I know that you said that the traffic on the SPI is pretty intense, but... |
| 19:57.35 | adyer_ | if you take interrupts on every byte from the spi controller that would be pretty ugly |
| 19:58.46 | GPSFan | prpplague: I'm interested in whether with apex in flash, it can boot the kernel which on an mmc/sd card along with the rootfs. |
| 19:59.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So I need g++ in my toolchain? |
| 19:59.42 | T0mW | GPSFan: It could, IIRC, they did add the code into the LH7A400 part of Apex, but it needs to be transcribed for another processors' SDIO registers. |
| 20:01.26 | T0mW | GPSFan: they were reading from an ext2 partition on the SD card. |
| 20:01.35 | GPSFan | T0mW: ok, but leaving aside the low level hardware wpecific stuff, apex knows what mmc commands to send to search for and read the kernel from mmc/sd, load it into ram and jump to it. |
| 20:01.57 | GPSFan | T0mW: sounds good. thanks.. |
| 20:01.59 | T0mW | GPSFan: yeah, on that one processor implementation. |
| 20:02.19 | T0mW | GPSFan: I looked at it but didn't have time to begin doing it. |
| 20:03.00 | T0mW | roxfan: you back from holiday now? |
| 20:05.27 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-3596.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:05.37 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, its doable |
| 20:05.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: i just don't have the code in apex to init the spi interface |
| 20:05.59 | GPSFan | prpplague: thanks, thats the answer I was looking for. ;>) |
| 20:06.01 | prpplague | GPSFan: but its doable, the rest of the code is there |
| 20:07.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not sure yet |
| 20:13.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 20:16.29 | GPSFan | prpplague: I had a problem when I tried to add the g++ to my buildroot. I did start from scratch, but /buildroot/project_build_arm/Hammer/root/usr/lib was missing and the build failed. I created that dir and it built fine. |
| 20:18.24 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh ok, i'll make a note |
| 20:19.05 | RobotGuy | If I rebuild my toolchain, do I have to rebuild binutils also? |
| 20:19.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: usually no |
| 20:31.32 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 20:48.11 | prpplague | GPSFan: you looking to boot and run from sd card? |
| 20:48.46 | GPSFan | prpplague: different project. just doing a bit or research. |
| 20:48.54 | RobotGuy | I finally made a script to do my entire rootfs and kernel build, including copying modules and stuff to where they have to be. |
| 20:48.58 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh ok |
| 20:49.03 | prpplague | GPSFan: zipit stuff? |
| 20:49.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good deal |
| 20:50.08 | GPSFan | yeah, they use blob, and want to ad booting a kernel from the sd card, I was trying to tell them that apex could do that already. |
| 20:50.51 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, apex would be a good choice to move from blob |
| 20:51.02 | prpplague | GPSFan: about the same size, but much more robust |
| 20:51.05 | GPSFan | indeed |
| 20:52.27 | GPSFan | prpplague: but apex doesn't support Xscale pxa270, yet. just ixp42x. |
| 20:53.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, it would be trivial add it |
| 20:53.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I will put my script on the Wiki after I am completely happy with it. |
| 20:53.55 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea a quick look shows that adding the xscale support with mmc would be pretty easy |
| 20:54.03 | prpplague | GPSFan: all the mmc code is pretty much there |
| 20:54.10 | GPSFan | prpplague: most likely, unfortunately the Z2 has no jtag or serial comming out the back connector, and it isn't clear if either is accessible on the board. |
| 20:54.15 | prpplague | GPSFan: you'd just need to add the sd controller code |
| 20:54.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, its accessable somewhere, hehe |
| 20:54.41 | prpplague | GPSFan: i can't imaging them doing the board without jtag |
| 20:54.50 | GPSFan | yeah on the bga cpu I'm sure. |
| 20:55.24 | prpplague | GPSFan: have a look at the sharp lh7a4xx stuff in apex |
| 20:55.25 | GPSFan | me too, T0mW has a board he was going to wipe, that would let us know for sure. |
| 20:55.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: all of that is done as generic drivers |
| 20:55.39 | prpplague | GPSFan: and can be used with other platforms |
| 20:55.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: if you have the low level code added |
| 20:55.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: If I remember correctly, you said a nail board might work for consoling and such to hammer for demos. How would that work? |
| 20:56.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm sorry, i didn't understand your statement |
| 20:56.37 | RobotGuy | I guess I am not communicating well today, sorry. |
| 20:56.49 | prpplague | hehe, np, i'm probably not listening well |
| 20:57.23 | RobotGuy | I got the Gadget Ethernet setup with an IP address. I just have to automate it. |
| 20:57.45 | Mirell | Thank God for FatJAR |
| 20:59.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: great, you were able to test it properly with your desktop? |
| 21:00.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think what you were asking about is this: the nail board is basically a flyswatter board that the hammer plugs directly into |
| 21:00.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you get jtag, serial console, and the usb gadget driver thru a single usb connection |
| 21:00.39 | prpplague | GPSFan: apex also supports wired ethernet booting |
| 21:01.10 | prpplague | bbi 20 |
| 21:01.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That isn't exactly what I was asking for them. I need something inexpensive that I can easily carry with me when I take my Hammer with me so I can show it actually working, like the console, etc. |
| 21:28.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just get a small cheap latoptop |
| 21:33.23 | prpplague | wmat: ping |
| 21:37.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What do you consider small and cheap? I consider < $300.00 small and inexpensive. |
| 21:38.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: less than $100 |
| 21:38.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: pawn shop should have something that you can use |
| 21:42.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is that $100.00 price from a pawn shop? |
| 21:42.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 21:43.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm not sure I would trust stuff coming from a place like a pawn shop. |
| 21:43.45 | adyer_ | would something like this work: http://gadgetwerksinc.com/maxterm.htm ? |
| 21:44.19 | RobotGuy | adyer_: No. The screen isn't large enough. |
| 21:44.49 | RobotGuy | What I need has to have keyboard, screen, and pointer. |
| 21:44.55 | RobotGuy | And it must run Linux. |
| 21:45.33 | RobotGuy | The least expensive laptop I have found that might do all that is $499.00 at Best Buy. |
| 21:46.03 | prpplague | well keyboard and mouse you can do via usb with no problems to the hammer board |
| 21:46.12 | prpplague | the display is a little more troublesome |
| 21:46.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The display is the kicker. |
| 21:46.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i have some chrontel parts i've been meaning to expriment with |
| 21:47.07 | adyer_ | hmm. I can get a 800x480 7" display for about $40, the trick is driving it |
| 21:47.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: could do a vga out or composite out |
| 21:47.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am hoping to be able to carry a complete development system with me, but this might not be doable for under $600.00 |
| 21:47.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: VGA from Hammer? |
| 21:47.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 21:49.28 | RobotGuy | adyer_: Working directly on the Hammer is appealing, and would REALLY show off what it is capable of. I could definitely put Python and Squeak on it, but C/C++ might be difficult. |
| 21:49.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea libusb builds fine if you have a g++ installed |
| 21:49.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, I will rebuild my toolchain with g++ enabled then. Thanks. |
| 21:50.01 | prpplague | np |
| 21:50.37 | prpplague | adyer_: url on the display? |
| 21:51.01 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=mchouina@CPE0015e9790865-CM00140491f5be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:52.01 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmm, maybe I could make my Hammer into a little handheld.. |
| 21:55.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: already done |
| 21:55.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just started my rebuild. |
| 21:55.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just waiting for some more sales to pick up before we go into production |
| 21:56.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: On what? |
| 21:56.43 | prpplague | <RobotGuy> Hmmmmm, maybe I could make my Hammer into a little handheld.. |
| 21:56.43 | RobotGuy | You lost me. |
| 21:56.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahhh, that would indeed be very cool. |
| 21:57.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i have a sledge hammer in this - http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2449554 |
| 21:57.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Maybe I could make my own just for myself. Big learning experience - that is good for me. |
| 21:57.31 | adyer_ | this is the display: http://www.sailing-tech.com/product_info.asp?id=176 cant find pdf spec online. Quote was through another vendor for 10K |
| 21:58.11 | prpplague | oh |
| 21:58.49 | prpplague | i also have a hammer in one of these - http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2647159 |
| 21:59.09 | RobotGuy | $129.00 for that? That is pretty much the kind of thing I am looking for if I can rebuild it with full Linux. |
| 21:59.35 | RobotGuy | Cool |
| 22:00.50 | RobotGuy | adyer_: That display would be good. I'd probably have to dedicate a Hammer just to driving it though. |
| 22:02.28 | RobotGuy | That would kind of defeat the purpose, wouldn't it? The display would have to be connected directly to my Hammer to be truely useful. |
| 22:03.31 | prpplague | hmm, thats odd, walmart doesn't have their label makers on the web apge |
| 22:04.32 | adyer_ | RobotGuy we run a similar display (Samsung) with a i.MXL 200 Mhz ARM. We have the full bus 16-bit lcd bus and 32-bit wide memory which helps. |
| 22:04.49 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1307.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:05.00 | RobotGuy | adyer_: I am familiar with the i.MX MCUs and really like them. |
| 22:05.21 | adyer_ | RobotGuy: parts are nice, linux support is spotty |
| 22:05.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not really, at least for the i.MX21. |
| 22:05.52 | RobotGuy | Oops, meant for adyer_ |
| 22:06.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/800768/Handheld-Labeling-System/ |
| 22:06.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i have one of those and a handheld one that i'll be putting a hammer in |
| 22:07.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Wow. Interesting. I really do need a full screen if I am going to carry a full development system for Hammer with me though. |
| 22:07.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i was just pointing out whats on my hack list for next weekend |
| 22:07.56 | SpeedEvil | I looked at it in principle. |
| 22:08.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Very interesting. |
| 22:08.08 | SpeedEvil | The PSP display I think should simply connect. |
| 22:08.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: to what? |
| 22:08.23 | SpeedEvil | You will only of courst get 8 bit color. |
| 22:08.32 | SpeedEvil | and you'll have to do some software hackery. |
| 22:08.33 | RobotGuy | Has anyone got the reference or user manual or datasheet for the Samsung SC2410 chip? |
| 22:08.36 | SpeedEvil | Or greyscale. |
| 22:08.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its on the cd |
| 22:08.56 | SpeedEvil | But otherwise, I think it connects directly to the LCD output pins. |
| 22:08.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but it is also on the wiki |
| 22:08.59 | adyer_ | would be cool to hack those labeller engines to print barcodes and such |
| 22:09.05 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: connect to what? |
| 22:09.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OH! That will teach me to look. I mean real low level data, registers, peripherals, etc. |
| 22:09.21 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: the hammer - sorry if I'm confused as tot he topic of conversation again. |
| 22:09.21 | prpplague | adyer_: yea i'll have to look at that |
| 22:09.37 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the psp won't run on the hammer |
| 22:09.44 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: why not? |
| 22:10.12 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the data lines nessary to support a tft display are not brought out on the hammer |
| 22:10.44 | SpeedEvil | Umm. I though there were LCD data and the requisite clock lines. |
| 22:11.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: for stn |
| 22:11.58 | adyer_ | lol, if you can clock the data in and frame it, you can make it do a tft, just need the right magic |
| 22:12.35 | SpeedEvil | yes - that was what I thought. |
| 22:12.40 | prpplague | adyer_: data isn't there |
| 22:12.52 | SpeedEvil | the PSP display isn't complex to driver. /me continues checking. |
| 22:12.57 | prpplague | adyer_: only the first 8 data lines are brought out |
| 22:13.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The info on the Wiki is much less than what I need. |
| 22:13.26 | adyer_ | all the data isn't there, but that doesn;'t mean you cant light up the screen |
| 22:13.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: At least as far as I have seen. |
| 22:13.40 | prpplague | adyer_: so when running in tft mode that means only the red is present |
| 22:14.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Does the Linux I2C driver use the Hammer's hardware I2C? |
| 22:14.22 | adyer_ | prpplague: color are just a mapping issue :-) |
| 22:14.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, but it doesn't including any device drivers |
| 22:15.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: By device drivers, do you mean application level or low level device stuff? |
| 22:15.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: neither |
| 22:15.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hrrrrm |
| 22:15.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i mean device drivers, hehe, i.e. your mcp i/o expander |
| 22:15.41 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: sure - but you can get 8 bit gray fine, or colourmapped mode |
| 22:15.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So the I2C driver in the Hammer Linux kernel does not use the Hammer I2C hardware? |
| 22:16.27 | SpeedEvil | I just checked - there is only clock and hsync and vsync on the PSP LCD |
| 22:16.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the i2c driver that is in the kernel provides the i2c subsystem, which does have a s3c2410 driver |
| 22:16.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, good so far. |
| 22:16.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I thought I had seen that in the kernel config. |
| 22:17.12 | SpeedEvil | http://document.sharpsma.com/files/LQ043T3DX02_SP_122805.pdf |
| 22:17.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So I just need to write the application level interface. |
| 22:17.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: remember, jsut because the infrastructure is there, doesn't mean you have everything you need |
| 22:17.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: that the psp display? |
| 22:17.46 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: yes |
| 22:17.54 | SpeedEvil | (well, and analog, and display on/off) |
| 22:17.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's what I need to find out, specifically. I have to know how much and at what level(s) I have to write code for. |
| 22:19.14 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, you could run it, but you'd need to hack the framebuffer to get 3-3-2 formated data |
| 22:19.42 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: or set palletted mode, and the appropriate colourmap. |
| 22:20.07 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: not sure if thats doable on the s3c2410 |
| 22:20.32 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: it supports palleted mode - I looked at it for the Neo1973 as a way of saving power. |
| 22:20.54 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: even if it diddn't - 8 bit mono mode can be used with software mapping. |
| 22:21.14 | RobotGuy | Having full I2C support is very important to me. :) |
| 22:21.21 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: well thats beyond me, i'm not sure i understand how you would do that |
| 22:21.29 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: to many of us. |
| 22:21.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i2c is supported, but probably not in the way you want, more than likely you'll not want to use the i2c subsystem in the linux kernel |
| 22:22.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like samsung removed the users manual |
| 22:23.08 | adyer_ | if you set the lcd controller for 8 bit stn single scan mode and put a cpld outside, you could make the lcd controller 3x wider and demux the data into 24 bit (prolly a slow refresh rate tho) |
| 22:23.44 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: For simple grayscale - connect all of the red-green-blue pins together. For color, connect the first 3r,3g,2b bits, then if you want a specific color, you simply set a pixel to that color. |
| 22:24.16 | SpeedEvil | F0 would for example be maximum red, and half green, and no blue |
| 22:24.36 | prpplague | adyer_: yea thats kinda what i had planned for the chrontel part |
| 22:24.44 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, the problem is formatting the data |
| 22:24.48 | SpeedEvil | (and ground the remaining pins) Yes, a cpld or other hacks can be used. |
| 22:25.43 | RobotGuy | FYI, gcj does not build for the toolchain. I know, I can hear prpplague now - why do you need THAT? :) |
| 22:26.48 | prpplague | eh gads |
| 22:27.10 | adyer_ | has he asked about Ada yet? :-) |
| 22:27.32 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:27.37 | RobotGuy | I go where most developers would never go. |
| 22:28.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just want my Squeak. :D |
| 22:28.17 | RobotGuy | And Python. |
| 22:28.17 | adyer_ | where's the APL keyboard? |
| 22:28.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: squeak is working |
| 22:28.44 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: in what manner - you set a pixel with 8 bits, the pixel turns the color that is reflected by the 8 bit output on the LCD0-7 |
| 22:29.05 | RobotGuy | adyer_: I did write a mouse in maze program when I was just out of high school. I did that in APL for a graduate level programming course. The only reason I only got a B+ is I did not take the final. |
| 22:29.14 | SpeedEvil | And your connections to R0-7, G0-7,B0-7 |
| 22:29.52 | SpeedEvil | There is no requirement to alternate frame voltages or anything, there is only hsync, vsync, pixelclock, and the data pins. |
| 22:29.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: When do I get the build package? :D:D |
| 22:30.46 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: normally with the s3c2410's video controller, it splits the memory out to the data lines, R[0:7],B[8:15],G[16:23] |
| 22:31.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: got to dave's page and download the package |
| 22:31.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll have it included in the buildroot near the end of the week |
| 22:32.22 | CosmicPenguin | in case anybody cares, it takes about 15 seconds for a 35 watt k8 to overheat without a heatsync |
| 22:32.51 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you make it work, post the schematics and code, and i'll give you a free hammer eval kit |
| 22:33.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: toasty |
| 22:33.49 | CosmicPenguin | fun with fans |
| 22:35.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Very cool! I really apprecaite your work on the squeak build. |
| 22:36.36 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I need to do some looking up datasheets, and proof-of-concept. |
| 22:37.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Now, about getting software onto my thumb drive.. I was looking for a place to set a custom prefix, and think I found it, but am not sure if that is relative to the project_build_arm directory or not. |
| 22:42.13 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:44.38 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you really think you can format the display data properly? |
| 22:44.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ping |
| 22:44.59 | CosmicPenguin | pong |
| 22:45.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you are more familar with the linux frame buffer, how hard would it be to reformat the color data like SpeedEvil is talking about? |
| 22:46.37 | CosmicPenguin | I wasn't paying attention |
| 22:46.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: libstdc++ did not build as part of my toolchain. |
| 22:46.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you have to enable that seperately |
| 22:47.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh ok |
| 22:48.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I did, or at least thought I did. |
| 22:48.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: pastebin.ca your .config from buildroot |
| 22:48.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, it can't be built with the rest of the toolchain? |
| 22:49.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/855327 |
| 22:49.11 | RobotGuy | Oh my config. |
| 22:49.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 22:50.15 | prpplague | <GPSFan> prpplague: I had a problem when I tried to add the g++ to my buildroot. I did start from scratch, but /buildroot/project_build_arm/Hammer/root/usr/lib was missing and the build failed. I created that dir and it built fine. |
| 22:51.20 | adyer_ | prpplague; how fast is HCLK on s3c2410 (or how fast can it be)? |
| 22:51.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the s3c2410 page has been updated with the users manual |
| 22:51.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/855331 I already saw that comment. |
| 22:52.41 | RobotGuy | It was there the last time I checked, but not now. :) I created it. |
| 22:52.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Great. |
| 22:53.05 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 22:55.15 | RobotGuy | I added /usr/lib to my devices file. :D |
| 22:55.21 | prpplague | adyer_: the fclk is 202.8, hclk is 101.4 , and pclk is 50.7 |
| 22:55.41 | prpplague | adyer_: hclk is maxed at 101.4 , since the sdram is maxed out at 133mhz |
| 22:56.02 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 22:56.35 | RobotGuy | landley: Hello there. |
| 22:58.38 | landley | Hiya. |
| 22:59.47 | prpplague | landley: hehe, i was feeling bad myself yesterday |
| 23:01.57 | RobotGuy | I been feeling lousey today. |
| 23:06.10 | prpplague | landley: the hammer doesn't support battery backed rtc operations |
| 23:06.12 | RobotGuy | I got my g++ built. :) |
| 23:06.23 | prpplague | landley: you could easily add a rtc chip with a watch battery |
| 23:06.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Does Sledge Hammer? |
| 23:06.32 | prpplague | landley: but that does increase the overall cost |
| 23:06.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the sledge hammer does support it |
| 23:06.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: YAY |
| 23:06.47 | Mirell | 'lo landley |
| 23:07.13 | prpplague | the sledge hammer also support full suspend/resume |
| 23:07.33 | ds2 | now make it smaller ;) |
| 23:07.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did you see my message about a custom prefix for building software? |
| 23:08.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, jsut pretty busy right now, can't stop to test |
| 23:08.31 | prpplague | ds2: can't make it smaller and still use .1" headers |
| 23:09.46 | ds2 | @#%$#@!%$@#$@#%@#$ use 0.050mm headers ;) everyone needs that headache =) |
| 23:10.30 | RobotGuy | ds2: I could solder those with my soldering station. :) Well, after I get a narrower tip for it. |
| 23:10.48 | adyer_ | go to pin grid array :-) |
| 23:10.51 | ds2 | RobotGuy: =) |
| 23:11.11 | RobotGuy | ds2: I have 0.4mm and 0.2mm tips on order. |
| 23:11.29 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I don't think it is the tips that are the problem |
| 23:11.40 | ds2 | how steady is your hands and how good is your vision? =) |
| 23:11.42 | adyer_ | 3 m's metcal, microscope, much flux |
| 23:12.03 | ds2 | <--- accepts metal donations :) |
| 23:12.29 | RobotGuy | ds2: I need better lighting and a good magnifier. I did electronic assembly and rework for a medical electronics company for 4 years. |
| 23:14.34 | ds2 | s/metal/metcal/ |
| 23:14.39 | ds2 | there :P |
| 23:14.49 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I'll take old pennies though ;) |
| 23:15.02 | RobotGuy | ds2: They aren't -that- old. :) |
| 23:15.11 | ds2 | before 1984 |
| 23:15.18 | adyer_ | 25000 pennies will get you a baby metcal ;-) |
| 23:15.21 | RobotGuy | ds2: Nope |
| 23:15.34 | ds2 | will pay $0.01 for each pre 1984 penny ;) |
| 23:15.54 | RobotGuy | adyer_: That is a microscope or magnifier light? |
| 23:16.03 | adyer_ | kids found a 1973 penny, went on and on about how OLD it was |
| 23:16.34 | RobotGuy | adyer_: I was in Junior High then, just starting to get into programming. |
| 23:16.59 | adyer_ | RobotGuy metcal is an iron, maintains temp better than any other I've used |
| 23:17.38 | RobotGuy | adyer_: I just got a Weller WES51 recently. |
| 23:21.14 | adyer_ | http://www.okinternational.com/product_soldering/mx500 |
| 23:21.19 | ds2 | anyone here actually used the Sparkfun PCB service? |
| 23:24.01 | landley | prpplague: the SOC on hammer has an rtc. I take it the pins aren't brought out? |
| 23:24.37 | prpplague | landley: in order to maintain the power to the rtc , several pins would need to be brought out to an external battery |
| 23:24.56 | RobotGuy | landley: We been telling you that for a few days. :D |
| 23:25.19 | landley | Just wanted to confirm it. So hammer does _not_ support a persistent rtc. Check. |
| 23:25.33 | landley | Like the USB 2 thing. |
| 23:25.39 | landley | The existing hardware does... something else. |
| 23:26.46 | prpplague | landley: correct, if there is no power to the hammer, there is no power to the rtc |
| 23:26.57 | SpeedEvil | landley: there are quite cheap maxim/dallas/... chips that you can simply glue onto the I2C pins. |
| 23:27.13 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have a few of those. |
| 23:27.19 | adyer_ | speedevil: ewww maxim. evil |
| 23:27.21 | prpplague | landley: a rtc and watch battery could be added, for about $4.00 total |
| 23:27.42 | RobotGuy | adyer_: What's wrong with Maxim? |
| 23:27.43 | ds2 | or a 1wire RTC... think maxim/dallas had one in a TO92 package |
| 23:27.46 | SpeedEvil | adyer_: well - in some ways - samples are nice. |
| 23:28.39 | landley | This is a "what is shiny enough to be worth the cost" question, and right now nothing seems particularly shiny. |
| 23:28.39 | adyer_ | RobotGuy if you want one they're ok, but a total PITA for production |
| 23:28.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: where to begin? hehe maxim has cool products but as an oem they are next to impossible to work with |
| 23:28.40 | prpplague | landley: hehe np |
| 23:28.40 | SpeedEvil | For volumes where the web-store works, they are pretty good. |
| 23:28.40 | adyer_ | ST M41T60 is pretty cheap |
| 23:28.55 | SpeedEvil | Or for parts that disties like digikey have |
| 23:29.02 | adyer_ | not that ST is a peach to deal with... |
| 23:29.25 | prpplague | landley: the primary goal of the hammer's design was to replace older 40-pin dip devices that were not capable of running linux |
| 23:29.30 | ds2 | no one here has tried out sparkfun's PCB service? |
| 23:29.53 | prpplague | landley: we tried to match the i/o of the older devices as much as possible to provide an easy upgrade patch from those devices |
| 23:29.54 | RobotGuy | ds2: I don't have any decent PCB design software. |
| 23:30.04 | ds2 | RobotGuy: Eagle! |
| 23:30.21 | RobotGuy | ds2: No thank you. I can't deal with Eagle. |
| 23:30.27 | prpplague | landley: most of those older 40-pin dip devices don't have intergrated rtc's , so most people would expect to add a rtc to the hammer |
| 23:30.31 | ds2 | just want a cheap place to run off a few boards for a 3.3V serial to RS232 w/RJ45 connector |
| 23:30.38 | ds2 | RobotGUy: what's wrong with eagle? |
| 23:30.52 | RobotGuy | ds2: I just can't deal with how it works. |
| 23:31.46 | RobotGuy | ds2: Spark Fun sells a nice little level shifter. |
| 23:32.11 | prpplague | ds2: plus i have several others listed on the wiki |
| 23:33.04 | ds2 | I saw those |
| 23:33.14 | ds2 | but I want a RJ45 out instead ofa DB9 or a header |
| 23:33.34 | ds2 | gotten used to the Cisco style RJ45 serial ports |
| 23:33.54 | ds2 | null modem is always a mere 2 minutes away with a crimper |
| 23:33.57 | adyer_ | ds2 I've used advanced circuits before for this type of stuff |
| 23:34.46 | ds2 | adyer_: are they as straight forward as send in gerber + CC number and get back boards in a weeek or two? |
| 23:34.59 | RobotGuy | ds2: Just wire your RJ45 to the same place the header would go. |
| 23:35.20 | ds2 | RobotGuy: RJ45 pinouts don't match |
| 23:35.26 | adyer_ | ds2 pretty much if you run their drc before you send it in. |
| 23:36.21 | ds2 | cool. I'll look into them. I just remember someone saying another vender (pcbexpress?) was giving them grief about replicating the board multiple times on the same peice |
| 23:37.13 | adyer_ | ds2 they have the same deal about no step/repeat |
| 23:37.25 | ds2 | oh :( |
| 23:37.57 | adyer_ | ds2 its pretty common in low end pcb shops |
| 23:38.16 | ds2 | SFE was suppose to be okay with that sort of stuff |
| 23:38.45 | ds2 | was thinking of about 1"x1" boards... I'll make enough copies to meet the min |
| 23:40.00 | ds2 | guess I'll have to be a guinie pig for SFE :/ |
| 23:41.59 | adyer_ | ds2 there seems to me a minimum amount of $ they want they just go about getting it differently |
| 23:50.06 | ds2 | adyer_: I just sent a mail to pcbpool (they been hounding people at the trade shops for a while)... |
| 23:50.39 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@70.249.150.251) |
| 23:50.47 | ds2 | I am find with meeting their min. $$ if they would say what it is. Even SFE says there is a min charge + price per sq inch. |
| 23:50.49 | RobotGuy | ds2: A lot of people use BatchPCB. Why would you be a guinie pig? |
| 23:50.54 | ds2 | s/find/fine/ |
| 23:51.00 | SpeedEvil | Ebay has some cheap vendors |
| 23:51.09 | SpeedEvil | Though they don't allow repeats IIRC |
| 23:51.23 | ds2 | RobotGuy: cuz I don't want to spend hours and hours chasing things down or argueing about details. |
| 23:51.49 | ds2 | all I want them to do is take a file and just make it at the list price. it is none of their business what it is on there |
| 23:52.03 | RobotGuy | ds2: You can find a lot of happy BatchPCB users on the SFE forums. |
| 23:53.58 | davidc__ | ds2: if you follow the format spec requirements, thats what'll happen |
| 23:54.26 | ds2 | RobotGuy: maybe they are just a small setup but I found their shipping times to be a bit erratic (shipping time as in the time from order til the time it gets to the USPS/UPS/etc) |
| 23:54.47 | davidc__ | ds2: I used to work for SparkFun, and I wrote most of the software that runs the backend of BatchPCB.. you can draw a bunch of pretty pictures on your board, and if all the layers are scaled right + line up, nobody will bug ya |
| 23:55.01 | RobotGuy | ds2: You want better shipping times, you pay somebody else more to do that. |
| 23:55.32 | davidc__ | ds2: the "erratic" times are due to how long it takes for the panels to come back from china.. thats how they can afford to make a 1in x 1in board and charge $2.50 + the flat $10 per order for it |
| 23:55.48 | ds2 | davidc__: know what are the times in reality? when I read their FAQ, there is basically no promised times |
| 23:56.20 | davidc__ | ds2: its usually worst case about 19 days from place->ship for a 2 layer board |
| 23:56.22 | ds2 | davidc__: for boards I understand that; but it is for the other stuff on their website. I am not saying they are bad folks, it is just that's erratic. |
| 23:56.31 | RobotGuy | ds2: They CAN'T promise definite delivery times for reasons davidc__ already gave. |
| 23:56.39 | davidc__ | ds2: erm, for stock SFE shipping stuff? |
| 23:56.39 | ds2 | ah cool... so I'll figure about 30-40 days to be safe =) |
| 23:57.00 | ds2 | davidc__: yep. I've had an order (all instock) take about a week to get out and another one take about 1-2 days |
| 23:57.09 | davidc__ | ds2: what time of year was that? |
| 23:57.23 | davidc__ | ds2: SFE did a big move in the late summer, and everything was nuts for a while |
| 23:57.27 | ds2 | davidc__: don't remember; it wasn't christmas for sure |
| 23:57.31 | ds2 | this is prior to the move |
| 23:57.46 | davidc__ | meh, I dunno then |
| 23:58.17 | ds2 | it wasn't something I would complain to the CC about... just wish it was more consistant - fix 2-3 days instead of a wide variance |
| 23:58.26 | davidc__ | anyhow - the reason they say usually worst case 19 days is sometimes the PCB fab "forgets" about a panel |
| 23:59.04 | davidc__ | or it gets mismade / lost/ something |
| 23:59.14 | davidc__ | so there are sometimes a few more days to wait for it to get remade + shipped |
| 23:59.38 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-1596.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
