| 00:00.26 | ds2 | ADI has some arm devices |
| 00:03.14 | RobotGuy | The Blackfin MCUs are not ARM. |
| 00:03.43 | ds2 | didn't claim they were ;) |
| 00:04.01 | RobotGuy | I didn't say you did. |
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| 00:05.14 | RobotGuy | I just added more specific information. |
| 00:05.35 | ds2 | :) |
| 00:05.57 | ds2 | their ARM devices are quite nice; they have one on a 40pin board like the hammer for ~$20 |
| 00:06.03 | ds2 | no linux, alas |
| 00:06.07 | RobotGuy | I've looked at Blackfin, and would really like to have a Blackfin board one of these days. |
| 00:06.16 | RobotGuy | ds2: Which one is that? |
| 00:06.32 | ds2 | the ADuC0802 I think or maybe 0820 |
| 00:06.57 | ds2 | has a built in PAL for doing simple glue logic stuff in front of the GPIO |
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| 00:10.32 | RobotGuy | I know they exist, but I sure can't find them on the ADI site. |
| 00:10.38 | ds2 | let me find link |
| 00:11.57 | ds2 | http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,762%255F%255F0%255F%255F0%255F,00.html |
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| 00:13.05 | ds2 | page 10 of the "New Brochure" link has a picture of that 40pin thing "Mini kit" |
| 00:13.28 | ds2 | thought it was $25ish... they claim $30 for it now |
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| 00:17.03 | RobotGuy | That's not ARM though. It's 8052 based. |
| 00:17.21 | ds2 | the old ones are 8052 based. the new ones are ARMv7 |
| 00:17.24 | ds2 | ARM7 |
| 00:17.25 | ds2 | not v7 |
| 00:18.31 | RobotGuy | The 7000 series are ARM, the 800 series are 8052. |
| 00:18.50 | RobotGuy | 7000 = ARM7TDMI |
| 00:18.53 | ds2 | *shrug* memory is rusty |
| 00:19.45 | ds2 | regardless, the miniboard is the one that sparked my interest. esp since they gave away those |
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| 00:26.47 | RobotGuy | I am always interested in looking at new breadboard friendly modules. |
| 00:28.37 | Mirell | Got mah Health Insurance cards, yay! |
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| 00:32.07 | RobotGuy | I wish I had dental coverage and better vision coverage. |
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| 00:36.21 | Mirell | I did the full blown thing |
| 00:36.51 | Mirell | Health, Dental, Vision, and 5x my salary in life insurance, with my mother as the beneficiary for now |
| 00:37.04 | RobotGuy | I doubt I could afford such a package. |
| 00:37.19 | Mirell | It's like $120 a month |
| 00:37.34 | RobotGuy | That's about 10% of my income. |
| 00:37.38 | Mirell | Mmm |
| 00:38.22 | RobotGuy | Although sometimes I wonder if getting at least a good dental and vision package would be a good thing. |
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| 00:57.00 | Mirell | Heh. |
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| 01:08.13 | MonMotha | I am fortunate enough that work provides such coverage |
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| 01:18.03 | RobotGuy | You are, for sure. All I have is Medicare Advantage. |
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| 01:21.59 | RobotGuy | It's weired - I didn't need the insurance when I was working, and now that I am not working, I really do need it. |
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| 01:49.42 | RobotGuy | I am probably closer to old age than you. |
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| 04:33.38 | RobotGuy | Is it the USB Host controller that a USB hub or USB device would be plugged into? |
| 04:34.33 | ds2 | yes |
| 04:36.44 | MonMotha | host is pretty well defined in the standard |
| 04:37.00 | MonMotha | unlike upstream and downstream, which are very well defined using utterly confusing definitions |
| 04:37.36 | ds2 | confusing? isn't everything relative to the host? |
| 04:42.53 | MonMotha | ds2: go read the definitions of upstream and downstream |
| 04:43.04 | MonMotha | it'll probably take you a couple times to wrap your head around it |
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| 05:55.30 | anxt | i just got an ebox-2300 from work to play with |
| 06:15.00 | RobotGuy | So the Hammer's host USB port could handle up to four USB endpoints according to the S3C2410A manual. |
| 06:19.08 | SpeedEvil | You mean the device port? |
| 06:19.47 | SpeedEvil | USB host/device port set to device |
| 06:38.39 | MonMotha | endpoint != physical connection |
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| 07:44.44 | anxt | iwork gimmme a eboz-2300 to set up |
| 07:44.48 | anxt | this is fun |
| 07:44.56 | anxt | finally bootstrapped it from usb stick |
| 07:48.08 | RobotGuy | anxt: You bootstrapped Hammer from usb stick? |
| 07:48.26 | anxt | no i bootstrapped an x86 |
| 07:48.38 | anxt | it was really finicky, doesn't wanna work with grub |
| 07:48.38 | RobotGuy | Oh |
| 07:49.15 | RobotGuy | It would be neat to be able to boot Hammer from a thumb drive or similar media. |
| 07:49.46 | SpeedEvil | SD |
| 07:59.27 | anxt | do i dare install lilo |
| 07:59.37 | anxt | and mung this fragile usb stick lol |
| 07:59.41 | anxt | YEP |
| 07:59.53 | anxt | might learn something as i swear and smoke cigarettes |
| 08:00.48 | RobotGuy | If Hammer could be booted from a Thumb Drive, I think pretty much any ARM Linux could be used. |
| 08:01.31 | anxt | i read a bunch of lilo docs years back |
| 08:01.37 | anxt | bootstrapping is not a simple process |
| 08:02.08 | SpeedEvil | Depends on how smart your firmware is. |
| 08:02.54 | anxt | well i mean writing a loader |
| 08:03.57 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - but can the in-ROM firmware only load the first block on the disk, or can it grok partition tables and filesystems? |
| 08:04.28 | anxt | is first block on disk mostly x86? |
| 08:04.34 | anxt | or most hw? |
| 08:04.57 | SpeedEvil | Not x86 |
| 08:05.03 | SpeedEvil | 99% of X86 does |
| 08:05.14 | SpeedEvil | 'jump to address xxxx:xxxx' |
| 08:05.22 | SpeedEvil | and then execute whatever's there |
| 08:05.35 | anxt | then asm needs to be loaded into memory already |
| 08:05.54 | SpeedEvil | that's a ROM address typically, which then does loading of the first stage of teh boot loader typically |
| 08:06.00 | anxt | lol c64 roms were like 16k |
| 08:06.07 | anxt | and that was a whole game! |
| 08:06.30 | anxt | so you mean BIOS before disk? |
| 08:06.35 | SpeedEvil | In some chips - the samsung S3C2410A for example, there is 48K of (mask programmed ROM) |
| 08:06.47 | SpeedEvil | this handles booting from one of several possible mediums |
| 08:06.52 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 08:07.04 | SpeedEvil | No recent hardware loads it from disk. |
| 08:07.10 | SpeedEvil | Directly that is |
| 08:07.47 | SpeedEvil | In the 70s, the microcode was often loaded from floppy |
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| 09:02.25 | anxt | somoene pu high in my cigarettes! |
| 09:02.30 | anxt | put* |
| 09:02.33 | anxt | bastages! |
| 09:03.25 | RobotGuy | Yeah, right. |
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| 13:24.53 | agaffney | dijenerate: wtf...fix your connection |
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| 13:32.02 | Mirell | agaffney: This is why I ignore all status changes in any decent-size channel. |
| 13:34.18 | agaffney | 07:34 -!- Irssi: #edev: Total of 40 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal] |
| 13:34.26 | agaffney | eh, this is one of the smaller channels I'm in :P |
| 13:36.01 | Mirell | Pity. |
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| 13:44.52 | RobotGuy | G'Mornin, Mirell |
| 13:44.57 | RobotGuy | And agaffney |
| 13:51.53 | Mirell | 'lo RobotGuy |
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| 14:10.05 | RobotGuy | Mirell: How goes things today? |
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| 14:15.25 | Mirell | RobotGuy: Right now, it goes with me escaping to work. Be back in a few minutes. |
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| 14:37.33 | Mirell | And now, I are at work. |
| 14:37.58 | prpplague | boo |
| 14:38.06 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 14:38.14 | Mirell | Indeed. |
| 14:44.28 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
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| 14:58.26 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 15:00.51 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:00.58 | prpplague | lawsuit is about to get fun |
| 15:01.34 | chouimat|work | prpplague: since when a lawsuit is fun? |
| 15:01.57 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea thats called sarcasism |
| 15:02.05 | chouimat|work | hehe |
| 15:05.01 | Crofton | good luck prpplague |
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| 15:05.49 | prpplague | Crofton: indeed, it basically effects everyone using 802.11 |
| 15:09.04 | prpplague | well SFLC isn't interested in helping |
| 15:09.13 | prpplague | and FSF doesn't seem intereste |
| 15:09.15 | prpplague | d |
| 15:09.21 | prpplague | and no one has responded from groklaw |
| 15:09.23 | prpplague | :( |
| 15:09.42 | RobotGuy | Why don't they seem to be interested? |
| 15:10.05 | GPSFan | prpplague: any word from IEEE? |
| 15:10.09 | RobotGuy | I'd be disappointed too. |
| 15:10.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: SFLC only represent and works with non-profit |
| 15:10.23 | prpplague | GPSFan: no nothing yet |
| 15:10.41 | RobotGuy | And FSF only does software issues, right? |
| 15:11.03 | prpplague | GPSFan: i did find some references to a case involved around 802.11n standard where IEEE basically said they are under no obligation to research or certify that their standard is free of patent violations |
| 15:11.24 | GPSFan | prpplague: ;>(( |
| 15:11.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: They suck then. |
| 15:11.52 | prpplague | GPSFan: i wish i could so press coverage from groklaw |
| 15:12.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: landley email pj a couple of days ago |
| 15:12.06 | prpplague | GPSFan: but i've not seen anything |
| 15:12.14 | GPSFan | prpplague: do you license any code/stuff from a 802.11 chip vendor ie. Marvell? |
| 15:12.19 | prpplague | GPSFan: i don't think people realize how bad this is for 802.11 |
| 15:12.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do. |
| 15:12.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: only the binary firmware for the chip |
| 15:13.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: we don't have access to the source of the firmware |
| 15:13.24 | GPSFan | prpplague: what about the drivers? |
| 15:13.36 | prpplague | GPSFan: standard linux drivers in the 2.6 kernel |
| 15:13.44 | GPSFan | spi? |
| 15:13.47 | prpplague | sdio |
| 15:13.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Wouldn't Marvell have to certify their software was free of patent violations in order to distribute it? |
| 15:14.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats a good question, yes they should, problem is Marvell isn't a US based company which means the lawyers would have hell suing them, thats why they are going after the smaller companies first |
| 15:15.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Durn, too bad Marvell isn't US based. |
| 15:15.57 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=tree;f=drivers/net/wireless/libertas;h=39da258342656a60d7ed4499d29e7f914fc776bf;hb=d8c89eb3a12f0da96d049bd515c7fa3702e511c5 |
| 15:15.59 | RobotGuy | Marvell distributes their software to US companies though. Wouldn't this snafu make it so they could not do that? |
| 15:16.11 | GPSFan | prpplague: if the "infringement" is within the chipset implementation (HW), or the firmware (SW) then you are an "end user" of the technology in that you produce products with someone elses design. they would be the ones infringing. |
| 15:16.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea thats one argument |
| 15:18.15 | prpplague | GPSFan: the thing is, if WIAV wins, that means anyone who uses a linux 802.11 driver will be in violation of these two patents |
| 15:18.32 | GPSFan | yep. |
| 15:18.42 | chouimat|work | prpplague: only on linux? |
| 15:18.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That would mean somebody has to come up with a replacement for 802.11, which might be problematical. |
| 15:19.13 | GPSFan | prpplague: from a quick reading of the claims, it looks like cellphone networks would also be at risk. |
| 15:19.22 | prpplague | chouimat|work: no, any who uses 802.11 with be in violation, but i'm only concerned with linux and OSS |
| 15:19.29 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea |
| 15:19.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: or pay the license fee |
| 15:20.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'd rather see somebody come up with a non 802.11 solution that accomplishes the same basic thing. Then the WAIV folks could wipe the smirks off their faces. |
| 15:21.52 | GPSFan | prpplague: so CDMA, folks might be interested, I know Qualcomm has some very basic patents in the implementation of a cellphone network using CDMA as as basis. CDMA however has it's roots in WW2... Lamar et al. |
| 15:21.58 | RobotGuy | But look at all that 802.11 gear out there now.. Are companies like LinkSys, D-Link, etc doing anything to fight WAIV? |
| 15:22.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: basic play book for patent trolls, is to go after smaller companies first |
| 15:22.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they generally pay a small fee for them to go away |
| 15:22.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I understand that. That was not my question. |
| 15:23.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i have no clue at this stage |
| 15:23.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we are the first to go public with the issue |
| 15:23.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahh. |
| 15:23.39 | GPSFan | prpplague: do you know who has already paid WAIV? |
| 15:23.58 | prpplague | GPSFan: no not at the momment |
| 15:24.11 | prpplague | GPSFan: i suspec that will come out during discovery |
| 15:24.43 | GPSFan | indeed. what sort of time frame for the court proceedings? |
| 15:25.20 | prpplague | GPSFan: nothing as of yet |
| 15:25.31 | prpplague | GPSFan: lots of lawyering going on |
| 15:27.00 | GPSFan | k... other subject, after about 10 minutes I get a message from the hammer s3c2410fb code about blanking the screen, from then on I can't send anything to the /dev/tty0, but I can write to the frame buffer. Any idea what's going on? |
| 15:27.35 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, thats the console screen blank timer kicking in |
| 15:27.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: need to disable that |
| 15:27.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: or use the setconsole to turn it off |
| 15:28.05 | prpplague | GPSFan: i usually turn that off in the driver |
| 15:28.09 | GPSFan | setconsole? |
| 15:28.25 | GPSFan | ah in the s3c2410fb.c |
| 15:28.39 | RobotGuy | I downloaded the current Buildroot from svn, patched in the Samsung stuff and Squeak. |
| 15:35.39 | RobotGuy | Since I am using ext2, shouldn't I have some sort of shutdown procedure for my Hammer? |
| 15:35.50 | *** join/#edev sjhill (n=sjhill@real.realitydiluted.com) |
| 15:38.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea you should unmount the ext2 fs before powering off the device |
| 15:38.28 | prpplague | sjhill: greetings |
| 15:39.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: maybe you should look at OE |
| 15:39.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sounds like you need a much bigger build environment |
| 15:41.48 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 15:41.48 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 15:41.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why do I need a bigger build environment? |
| 15:42.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because you are replacing most of busybox utils and you are using more complexe filesystem structures |
| 15:43.16 | RobotGuy | I actually have looked at OpenEmbedded. I've got it partially setup now. |
| 15:44.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't see why Buildroot shouldn't be able to handle what I want to do. It's just the location of config files for software I build that I have an issue with. |
| 15:44.22 | Crofton | RobotGuy, I can answer some OE questions, but I am also working toward a hard deadline for real money .... |
| 15:45.07 | RobotGuy | Crofton: I think I'll just muddle through it on my own. If I can't make it work, then nobody will know. |
| 15:45.38 | Crofton | ok |
| 15:45.50 | Crofton | when I have free time, I do want to add hammer to OE |
| 15:46.06 | Crofton | but I have alot of backlogged things I want to do :( |
| 15:46.43 | prpplague | ~WAIV |
| 15:46.48 | prpplague | ~WIAV |
| 15:46.49 | purl | i heard wiav is a patent troll with information at http://trolltracker.blogspot.com/2008/01/4-interesting-new-cases-from-last-2.html and http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/205753-texas-company-seeks-judgement-to-stop-potential-patent-suit |
| 15:48.38 | RobotGuy | I've been corresponding with Robert Sheer about Hammer. He was worried that he couldn't attach up to 4 USB devices to Hammer. |
| 15:49.53 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
| 15:52.06 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@e179236080.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:52.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh? why would he be worried about that? |
| 15:55.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Because his Tarzan robot has a lot of sensors and such to communicate with. |
| 15:55.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no i mean, why would think he could not use 4 usb devices? |
| 15:55.54 | RobotGuy | He has a $1500.00 AHRS on Tarzan, amongst other stuff. |
| 15:56.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't really know. I researched it for him in the S3C2410A docs. |
| 15:56.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why would you need to research it? its a usb1.1 compliant USB port |
| 15:57.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: anything you can do with your pc's usb port you can do with the hammers usb port |
| 15:57.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: He wanted to be sure is all. |
| 15:58.42 | RobotGuy | And I learned a bit more about the Hammer in the process. :) |
| 15:59.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the usb port on the hammer is 100% usb 1.1 compliant, so anything you can do with a regular pc usb port you can do with the hammer |
| 16:00.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You are repeating yourself. |
| 16:00.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if he is primarily using the usb host connections, it would probably be best if he used both usb ports as host |
| 16:00.21 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: it's because of his old age :) |
| 16:00.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that way he gets the bandwidth out of both of them |
| 16:01.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: repeat a fact is a common way punctuating the fact's validatity |
| 16:01.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So both ports can be USB Host? Would that really give us the potential to connect up to 8 USB devices? |
| 16:01.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yes both ports can be used as usb hosts, how many usb devices can you run from a single usb hosts port? |
| 16:02.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: According to the S3C2410A manual, the Host port has 4 bi-directional endpoints. |
| 16:03.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that doesn't affect the number of usb devices that can be used |
| 16:03.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. I guess I don't understand USB well enough yet then. |
| 16:05.41 | CosmicPenguin | Reason #31 why OLS is dying |
| 16:05.58 | CosmicPenguin | their deadline for proposals is right when all the Linux developers are at LCA |
| 16:06.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 16:06.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you plug a usb hub into the hammer it uses only 2 endpoints, and provides 4 ports |
| 16:07.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: each of those 4 ports can have either usb devices or addition usb hubs |
| 16:07.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, that is very cool and useful. |
| 16:08.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So even a 7 port hub could be plugged in and use only two endpoints. |
| 16:08.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there are some limitations as to non-powered hubs |
| 16:08.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i've not personally tested that, however it should work |
| 16:09.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i mainly use the tusb2046b chipset for hubs |
| 16:09.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats whats on the nail board |
| 16:09.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am going to use a powered hub. |
| 16:09.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, you have access to that. I don't. It would be very nice to have at least a four port USB hub on a bot board. |
| 16:11.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sbcp%2f4gpy093QIAHCcm8fw%3d%3d |
| 16:11.27 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmm, I could get samples of the tusb2046b, and it's just a 32 LQFP. |
| 16:11.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: about 30-40% of the off-the-shelf 4 port usb hubs are tusb2046b based |
| 16:12.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, so a hub uses two endpoints, meaning two hubs could be attached to a single host port? |
| 16:13.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no |
| 16:13.12 | RobotGuy | Why would it use two endpoints? The S3C2410A host port has four bi-directional endpoints. |
| 16:13.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because you can have a usb device that uses more than one endpoint |
| 16:13.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.instructables.com/id/EV2KB09DMEEUR4U2CV/ |
| 16:14.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahhhh, so you won't necessarily be able to attach 4 devices. |
| 16:14.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: correct |
| 16:14.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: endpoints are uni directional |
| 16:14.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why does the manual claim 4 BI-directional endpoints then?? |
| 16:15.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the endpoints can be configured in any direction, i.e 1 out, 3 in or 2 out and 2 in, or 3 in 1 out\ |
| 16:15.28 | RobotGuy | Each has it's own FIFO, register set, etc. |
| 16:15.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but once they are configured for a direction, data only flows in that direction |
| 16:16.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That still leaves my question about the BI-directional endpoints claimed in the S3C2410A manual. |
| 16:16.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they are bi-directional, meaning they can be configured as either output or input |
| 16:17.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but the data flow is uni-directional, that is part of the USB standard |
| 16:17.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: In my opinion, they are misusing the term bidirectional then. |
| 16:17.40 | RobotGuy | So how do we know when we have run out of endpoints on a hub? |
| 16:17.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats USB speak, so you;d have to take it up with the folks |
| 16:17.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that do the usb spec |
| 16:18.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Right now, I'd like to SLAP the USB Folks REAL HARD. |
| 16:18.01 | *** join/#edev chouimat (n=mchouina@209.217.106.98) |
| 16:18.33 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-575.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 16:18.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Bottom line - can we or can't we attach at least four different USB devices to Hammer? |
| 16:19.37 | RobotGuy | Or do we need one or more of those tusb2046b chips? |
| 16:20.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: can you connect more than one device to your host port on your pc? |
| 16:20.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have a 4 port hub connected to my PC using one USB port. |
| 16:20.53 | prpplague | there is your answer |
| 16:21.12 | prpplague | the host port on the hammer is no different than the host port on your pc |
| 16:21.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: But, you said it's possible to run out of endpoints. |
| 16:21.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: where/when did i say that? |
| 16:24.22 | RobotGuy | I asserted that you wouldn't necessarily be able to connect 4 USB devices and you said correct. |
| 16:24.40 | RobotGuy | That's paraphrased. |
| 16:25.18 | prpplague | <RobotGuy> Why would it use two endpoints? The S3C2410A host port has four bi-directional endpoints. |
| 16:25.18 | prpplague | <prpplague> RobotGuy: because you can have a usb device that uses more than one endpoint |
| 16:25.18 | prpplague | <prpplague> RobotGuy: http://www.instructables.com/id/EV2KB09DMEEUR4U2CV/ |
| 16:25.18 | prpplague | <RobotGuy> prpplague: Ahhhh, so you won't necessarily be able to attach 4 devices. |
| 16:25.18 | prpplague | <prpplague> RobotGuy: correct |
| 16:25.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the mean was, just because the USB host port on the hammer has 4 endpoints doesn't mean you can connect 4 usb devices directly to the usb host port |
| 16:26.09 | chouimat | prpplague: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43 |
| 16:26.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: out of sync again i guess |
| 16:27.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Using a 4 port hub, can we indeed connect four different devices to Hammer? |
| 16:27.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yes |
| 16:27.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no different than a standard pc usb host port |
| 16:27.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, good. That's all I care about. |
| 16:27.47 | RobotGuy | All this endpoint stuff and such is confusing. |
| 16:29.33 | prpplague | chouimat: HA |
| 16:29.45 | chouimat | prpplague: it's a good one :) |
| 16:29.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, yea well trying writing code for it |
| 16:31.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'd definetly tell scheer to configure the second usb port as a host |
| 16:31.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that way he maxs out his usb bandwidth |
| 16:34.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Right. One hub on each port if he needs it. He said 4 USB and 2 UART would work for Tarzan though. |
| 16:34.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i'd do two usb devices on each usb port |
| 16:35.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. I'm not sure what sort of bandwidth his devices need. |
| 16:35.38 | RobotGuy | I haven't seen any two port USB hubs. |
| 16:36.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i have a tusb2046b hub module i've got done, just not put it up on TCT website |
| 16:37.01 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-575.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 16:37.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Cool! |
| 16:38.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just a small breakout board with the connections |
| 16:38.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: be easy to add to a design |
| 16:38.20 | RobotGuy | I am thinking about connecting my Bluetooth module to the Hammer's console port. |
| 16:38.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I like breakout boards - let's me easily use chips I wouldn't be able to use otherwise. Spark Fun is breakout God. :) |
| 16:38.59 | prpplague | yea |
| 16:39.35 | RobotGuy | I have a 3-axis ADXL330 accelerometer breakout and a Honeywell compass breakout. |
| 16:40.13 | RobotGuy | PARTS is working on a low cost IMU module. |
| 16:42.46 | RobotGuy | I'm going to use dsPICs for more analog I/O and quadrature encoder modules. |
| 16:43.22 | prpplague | i'm really surprised that so many robotics people are using usb devices |
| 16:44.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I guess we use whatever we can get that does the job best for the least $$. |
| 16:44.25 | prpplague | usb is just so power hungry |
| 16:45.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what is a "AHRS" ? |
| 16:45.23 | RobotGuy | I'm probably only going to use USB for the thumb drive and WiFi (assuming WAIV doesn't win). |
| 16:46.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It's a combination of gyros and accelerometers to create an inertial measurement unit. |
| 16:46.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Usually 3 gyros and a 3-Axis accelerometer. |
| 16:48.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Like this one: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8193 |
| 16:48.33 | prpplague | and its usb interfaced? |
| 16:49.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Some are, but the one I linked is TTL level serial. |
| 16:50.27 | RobotGuy | Attitude and Heading Reference System |
| 16:53.16 | RobotGuy | I'll be out for a few - got to get some medicine for my arm. |
| 17:11.20 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 17:12.22 | T0mW | prpplague: can't stop now, it is almost Friday and need to produce "something" that works. heh |
| 17:12.30 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:12.42 | prpplague | T0mW: yea well, i'm working on this law suit thing |
| 17:12.46 | prpplague | very depressing |
| 17:13.56 | T0mW | prpplague == the Sandeep Gupta of AML |
| 17:14.06 | T0mW | :P |
| 17:14.15 | prpplague | T0mW: ??? |
| 17:14.28 | T0mW | prpplague: what have they got you doing? |
| 17:14.36 | prpplague | ~WIAV |
| 17:14.36 | purl | extra, extra, read all about it, wiav is a patent troll with information at http://trolltracker.blogspot.com/2008/01/4-interesting-new-cases-from-last-2.html and http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/205753-texas-company-seeks-judgement-to-stop-potential-patent-suit |
| 17:14.46 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, I know that |
| 17:14.55 | prpplague | research for the case |
| 17:14.59 | T0mW | oh |
| 17:15.17 | T0mW | prpplague: I thought they might have you testify on some technical issues |
| 17:15.30 | prpplague | T0mW: not as of yet |
| 17:15.30 | T0mW | hence, the Sandeep reference |
| 17:16.22 | T0mW | prpplague: engineer at SCO who asserted that some of the linux source looked very close to the SCO unix source |
| 17:16.24 | Mirell | Mmm... |
| 17:16.25 | Mirell | Slow day. |
| 17:16.37 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:16.53 | prpplague | T0mW: problem is the vague way this patent is worded |
| 17:16.56 | T0mW | prpplague: basically, IMO, the poor guy got dragged into testifying |
| 17:17.33 | T0mW | prpplague: that might be a point to make, what, specifically did they patent? |
| 17:18.15 | prpplague | T0mW: basically the patent is for a method of moving from one stationary AP to another |
| 17:18.44 | T0mW | prpplague: just don't limit your search to technologies relating to digital, also keep in mind that mobile radio (audio) may have patents that apply / conflict. |
| 17:19.23 | Mirell | ...expect. Freakin. expect? |
| 17:20.58 | T0mW | prpplague: there may be some patents on the 800mHz trunking radio system which is a directed, multichannel radio system. The "host" hears a burst request for a channel when you hit the PTT (Push To Talk), then the "host" tells the mobile radio what channel to use. |
| 17:21.14 | GPSFan | prpplague: this might be of interest: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080123-ftc-defends-ethernet-forces-patent-troll-back-under-bridge.html While not quite the same situation, N-Data has a similar smell to WIAV |
| 17:21.56 | T0mW | prpplague: that is why you heard what was a squelch burst on the TV show "1-Adam 12". That was the handshake |
| 17:22.48 | T0mW | it seemed silly to watch that show and whenever they used the radios, they would push the button and you'd heard something like a squelch-crash. |
| 17:22.51 | CosmicPenguin | Nice reference |
| 17:28.45 | Mirell | Pretty slow day here at the OK Corral... |
| 17:34.03 | prpplague | T0mW: the issue with that case is that the patent was clearly covered under the standard |
| 17:34.41 | T0mW | prpplague: uh, what case? |
| 17:34.42 | prpplague | T0mW: there is no direct confirmation that this patent was ever part of the 802.11 standard |
| 17:34.55 | T0mW | prpplague: you must mean GPSFan |
| 17:34.58 | prpplague | oh sorry that was GPSFan |
| 17:35.02 | T0mW | nod |
| 17:59.37 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp076.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 18:02.31 | prpplague | hmm, i wonder if a patent donated as part of the 802.11f specification would then be applicable to all of the 802.11 specs |
| 18:02.50 | T0mW | roxfan2: you have mail |
| 18:03.21 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-575.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 18:09.35 | GPSFan | prpplague: yes, I know, I just thought that some aspects of the case might be of general interest. |
| 18:09.49 | prpplague | GPSFan: indeed |
| 18:12.33 | GPSFan | prpplague: and gl did pick up the n-data article as a newspick. |
| 18:12.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh |
| 18:13.54 | prpplague | i find it hard to believe that ieee would set up 802.11 specs knowing that his patent was out there |
| 18:14.35 | sunrunner20 | sco should have droped the suit days after they filed |
| 18:14.57 | sunrunner20 | aparently 3 experts telling them there is no sco unix code in linux wasn't enough >_> |
| 18:15.04 | CosmicPenguin | and now they are dead |
| 18:15.13 | CosmicPenguin | score one for us |
| 18:15.20 | CosmicPenguin | now we're only -104 in the hole |
| 18:15.22 | sunrunner20 | sco went bankrupt? |
| 18:16.06 | CosmicPenguin | no - not bankrupt yet, but I think the market value of the company is probably below the value of their capital |
| 18:16.39 | CosmicPenguin | If you can sell your cublicles and make more money then the worth of your company, things aren't well |
| 18:17.08 | sunrunner20 | yea |
| 18:49.54 | prpplague | hmm, does 802.11a/b/g send a broadcast packet out letting routers/switches know which ap its connected to? |
| 18:50.50 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, no |
| 18:51.02 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: thats my understanding as well |
| 18:51.07 | SpeedEvil | That's not done at the 802.11 state, but by the underlying ethernet |
| 18:51.16 | SpeedEvil | so ARP/... |
| 18:51.34 | prpplague | exactly |
| 18:53.51 | ds2 | isn't there some indemity clause you can invoke in the contract with the chipvendor to drag them into it? |
| 18:54.05 | prpplague | i can't find any part of the 802.11 spec that describes that |
| 18:54.24 | prpplague | ds2: yea if it comes to it, there will be a whole host of items to claim |
| 18:54.47 | ds2 | presumeably, they will have deeper pockets |
| 18:56.12 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:56.46 | prpplague | ds2: i can't comment on that |
| 19:07.44 | Mirell | Mmm |
| 19:07.55 | SpeedEvil | Wasn't there a ... |
| 19:08.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 19:08.30 | SpeedEvil | trying to remember channel name |
| 19:08.47 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 19:08.50 | SpeedEvil | #openwrt |
| 19:09.29 | RobotGuy | ‌ #openwrt |
| 19:09.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea i thought about that channel,but i figured it was more about running linux on the ap's than core 802.11 stuff |
| 19:10.01 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if there are many clueful people on tthere, I've never been there. |
| 19:10.24 | SpeedEvil | There are certainly a lot of people |
| 19:11.29 | chouimat|work | they are evil in there |
| 19:15.38 | *** join/#edev Dr{Who} (n=mathewss@dev.null.nutech.com) |
| 19:19.30 | Dr{Who} | needing some ideas on debugging. I have a kernel that seems to randomly crash on while loading the initrd. I am back to testing with replacing my init script with /bin/sh oddly enough i get a kernel panic saying "/bin/sh: verbose: No such file or directory" nutty thing is that my real init script has #!/bin/sh and when i mount loop my init i do have /bin/sh symlinked to /bin/bash and as my init "somtimes starts" i have to presume its ok. I am at a |
| 19:19.30 | Dr{Who} | loss to know would cause such an error. |
| 19:21.03 | SpeedEvil | disk errors? |
| 19:21.30 | SpeedEvil | You mean when you put init=/bin/bash as a kernel option? |
| 19:23.07 | Dr{Who} | i have the data from the disk dd'd to the file system as a raw file |
| 19:23.30 | SpeedEvil | what's the platform? |
| 19:23.32 | Dr{Who} | so if it were a disk error its static now. |
| 19:23.45 | Dr{Who} | i am booting under qemu |
| 19:23.57 | Dr{Who} | kernel and all is built with uclibc i486 |
| 19:23.59 | SpeedEvil | and init sometimes doesn't come up? |
| 19:24.04 | Dr{Who} | yep |
| 19:24.18 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 19:24.28 | SpeedEvil | That's a bit odd. |
| 19:24.48 | Dr{Who} | ya been chasing this a while.. my original dist was 2.4 kernel never saw this. was also glibc |
| 19:25.23 | Dr{Who} | new stuff is uclib and since then i have had this random problem. i had thought it was only an issue on my VIA EPIA 500 boards but it still does happen on qemu and other hardware |
| 19:25.46 | Dr{Who} | so more likely a kernel related issue. |
| 19:27.47 | Dr{Who} | but here again to debug this the simple way is to init to a /bin/sh |
| 19:28.08 | Dr{Who} | but i can think of no reason that would not just work.. especialy if my init is just a script that calls #!/bin/sh |
| 19:29.26 | Dr{Who} | since the message i get is a standard errno of ENOENT or 2 i will have to dig into the init process and see if i can determin if this could be caused by other things. |
| 19:30.37 | SpeedEvil | you can't have a script as init |
| 19:30.48 | SpeedEvil | As I understand |
| 19:31.22 | SpeedEvil | link init to /bin/bash, or add the init=/bin/bash option to the kenrel |
| 19:31.34 | Dr{Who} | ya thats what i did |
| 19:31.53 | Dr{Who} | init=<somescript or binary program> so it can be a script |
| 19:32.08 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: thats not true, as long as it is executable it can be init |
| 19:32.23 | Dr{Who} | i am not using cpio btw.. |
| 19:32.50 | Dr{Who} | i am using initrd though i have tried cpio its a bit too different of a startup process and my entire init script would have to be redone. |
| 19:33.11 | Dr{Who} | so im sticking with initrd i have seen no issues or heard of no problems with this so far. |
| 19:33.42 | SpeedEvil | Oh - of course I hadn't really thought - yes, the kernel handles scripts |
| 19:36.20 | Dr{Who} | ok so i just started qemu 4 times out of the 4 times it ran and started my init script 3 |
| 19:36.24 | Dr{Who} | the last time it failed |
| 19:36.36 | Dr{Who} | "Freeing unused kernel memory: 176k freed" |
| 19:36.38 | Dr{Who} | then zzzz |
| 19:36.54 | Dr{Who} | i know the kernel is still alive i have used kdb to break it and see that the tasking is running |
| 19:37.01 | Dr{Who} | but the init thread is out to lunch. |
| 19:39.49 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: top reason i've seen that happened is a mismatch of libraries on the rootfs |
| 19:40.13 | ds2 | what's a good Linux supported JTAG dongle that is reasonably priced? |
| 19:40.17 | Dr{Who} | ya but that would be a 100% falure.. |
| 19:40.27 | Dr{Who} | i would think. |
| 19:40.28 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: actually no |
| 19:40.37 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: try compiling busybox statically |
| 19:40.42 | Dr{Who} | k |
| 19:40.46 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: then put that on your rootfs |
| 19:40.49 | Dr{Who} | dont this before but its worth trying again. |
| 19:41.18 | Dr{Who} | btw.. im using buildroot |
| 19:41.45 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: yea just make sure the busybox gets set for a static build |
| 19:41.50 | Dr{Who} | still very confusing as to what version of anythign to use.. would love to find someone who has published a known good config. |
| 19:41.59 | Dr{Who} | k |
| 19:42.41 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: know good config for what? |
| 19:42.51 | Dr{Who} | known.. for buildroot |
| 19:43.05 | Dr{Who} | such as what gcc to pic, what uclib version what busybox version |
| 19:43.43 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: no such animal, there are so many platforms and configurations, it would be impossible to provide that |
| 19:44.28 | Dr{Who} | i gues it woudl be nice for people to publish the recipes they have had success with |
| 19:44.33 | Dr{Who} | and the arch it was for etc. |
| 19:46.05 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: if buildroot was distributed with your product, then you should have gotten a default config file |
| 19:46.59 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-96-226-38-56.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:48.00 | Dr{Who} | this is my own distro |
| 19:48.12 | Dr{Who} | im moving it from 2.4 -> 2.6 |
| 19:48.17 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: no complaints then, hehe |
| 19:48.24 | Dr{Who} | after like 6 years.. |
| 19:48.43 | Dr{Who} | no none here but i had figured others would publish there configs i cant be the only one doing this.. |
| 19:49.26 | ds2 | no recommendations on linux friendly JTAG interfaces? |
| 19:49.35 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: i'll be happy to give you my configs, but i don't see how that would help you as that is the beauty of buildroot, you configure it for what you need |
| 19:49.41 | prpplague | ds2: of course, the flyswatter |
| 19:49.57 | prpplague | ds2: did you expect me to recommend something else? |
| 19:49.59 | Dr{Who} | just wanting to narrow down the choices.. |
| 19:50.04 | ds2 | prpplague: isn't the fly swatter form fit for the Hammer? |
| 19:50.10 | Dr{Who} | gcc xyz, uclibc xyz |
| 19:50.11 | prpplague | ds2: uh no |
| 19:50.30 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: thats totally dependent on your application |
| 19:50.39 | Dr{Who} | no app.. just an appliance |
| 19:50.47 | Dr{Who} | firewall |
| 19:50.55 | Dr{Who} | or email or what ever i need it for that day |
| 19:51.43 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: by application i mean the hardware you are working with, the size of ram/flash, as well as other software needs |
| 19:52.02 | Dr{Who} | http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ |
| 19:52.14 | Dr{Who} | i prefer EPIA 500-1000mhz systems |
| 19:52.17 | prpplague | ds2: http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16134&cat=0&page=1&featured |
| 19:52.37 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: see, i've not done an x86 build in 5 years, hehe |
| 19:52.39 | Dr{Who} | as you can see all are still 2.4 the problem is my recent needs are camera capture for security but that is a dead end in 2.4 kernels |
| 19:52.50 | Dr{Who} | : c ) ya thats the frustrating thing. |
| 19:52.57 | Dr{Who} | lots of work on arm, mips etc |
| 19:53.07 | Dr{Who} | but embeded x86 is like a no where land. |
| 19:53.09 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: thats where the money is |
| 19:53.45 | prpplague | ds2: what product are you jtag'n to? |
| 19:54.06 | Dr{Who} | ya i do like arm stuff too. but im still stuck with stock hardware most of the time.. pci cards etc |
| 19:55.13 | ds2 | prpplague: trying to setup JTAG to one of the ADI tiny ARM7's |
| 19:55.36 | ds2 | prpplague: flyswatter looks a lot like a stock FTxxxx design for OpenOCD |
| 19:56.15 | ds2 | and it is cheaper then SFE |
| 19:57.23 | ds2 | ah I was confusing it with the Hammer Carrier. |
| 19:57.48 | ds2 | prpplague: do you guys do CC processing or is there some shady 3rd party doing the CC acceptance? |
| 20:04.13 | prpplague | ds2: we have a online shopping basket |
| 20:04.33 | prpplague | ds2: that does the cc approval |
| 20:04.35 | ds2 | prpplague: yes, but that can be serviced by anyone |
| 20:05.07 | prpplague | ds2: yea we have a service we go thru, but its handled on the website |
| 20:05.22 | prpplague | ds2: that the arm7 a 3.3v device? |
| 20:05.31 | ds2 | I realize that, I am trying to figure out if it is a trustworthy service =) |
| 20:06.34 | ds2 | prpplague: *nod* |
| 20:06.37 | prpplague | ds2: it is, its the same service as SFE |
| 20:06.40 | ds2 | ah okay |
| 20:07.15 | ds2 | it is nicely priced where it just isn't worth it for me to build one myself |
| 20:07.21 | prpplague | i guess we need to put up a note the flyswatter can be used with any jtag |
| 20:07.34 | prpplague | ds2: indeed |
| 20:07.57 | prpplague | ds2: it also has four screw holes if you want to mount it on something |
| 20:07.58 | ds2 | somehow I got the impression it was part of the hammer carrier board. it was only the pictures on the product page that clarified it |
| 20:08.12 | prpplague | ds2: yea, we've had that problem |
| 20:08.24 | ds2 | prpplague: a case would be nice but I can live with open boards on the bench =) |
| 20:08.48 | prpplague | ds2: yea, i like to screw mine down to a board when i'm working on a project |
| 20:09.09 | ds2 | prpplague: bench is too crowded to attempt that :( |
| 20:09.12 | RobotGuy | Has anyone built anything with the latest version of Buildroot? |
| 20:09.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i did this morning, why? |
| 20:09.35 | ds2 | prpplague: got a chance to spec up what you want for the frame buffer bounty? |
| 20:09.35 | SpeedEvil | ds2: it doent' have to be a big board |
| 20:09.45 | SpeedEvil | ds2: even a 6*6" board |
| 20:09.48 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: you haven't seen my bench! |
| 20:09.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmmph, you do mean the latest as in from SVN? |
| 20:10.03 | prpplague | ds2: naw, haven't yet |
| 20:10.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 20:10.45 | ds2 | prpplague: I am strongly inclined to take it up; it is just a matter of reshuffling things. I really want some experience on the Samsung SOCs |
| 20:12.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you make it harder than it should be |
| 20:12.07 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.144.163) |
| 20:12.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What version of gcc, binutils? |
| 20:12.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am trying to make do it easy but nothing works for me so far. |
| 20:12.37 | prpplague | one sec phone |
| 20:15.08 | RobotGuy | ds2: Hammer is probably the easiest way to get Samsung experience. :) |
| 20:15.47 | ds2 | RobotGuy: *nod* but I got do due dilligence to see if there is a cheaper platform ;) |
| 20:15.52 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I |
| 20:16.05 | SpeedEvil | 'd argue for the neo1973 - but it's less IO |
| 20:16.07 | CosmicPenguin | Have you considered everything that x86 can offer you? |
| 20:16.10 | RobotGuy | ds2: Cheaper is not necessarily best. |
| 20:16.13 | SpeedEvil | and more $ |
| 20:17.00 | ds2 | neo is lot more $$ |
| 20:17.18 | SpeedEvil | Also a lot more stuff |
| 20:17.22 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Actually I have been looking a bit at x86, but have serious questions as to their usefulness in robotics (i2c, spi, etc). |
| 20:17.27 | SpeedEvil | Though less IO |
| 20:17.28 | ds2 | my complaint with the hammer is the lack of PM so I been patiently waiting for a sledge |
| 20:17.55 | RobotGuy | ds2: Yeah, and I wish we had that 3rd serial port. |
| 20:17.57 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: I have seen the Neo and it looks disappointing; maybe the rev2 might be better |
| 20:18.04 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1357.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:18.07 | ds2 | RobotGuy: serial ports can be fixed with USB |
| 20:18.11 | SpeedEvil | Dissapointing in what way? |
| 20:18.19 | ds2 | the radio is non EDGE for one |
| 20:18.31 | RobotGuy | ds2: True, if one gets a good USB -> Serial adapter. |
| 20:18.39 | ds2 | there other things on the website for it |
| 20:18.40 | SpeedEvil | ds2: edge radios are unfortunately more expensive AIUI |
| 20:19.12 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: yes, but it is not possible (AFAIK) to get a Edge capable module in singles so I was hoping the Neo can solve that problem |
| 20:19.28 | SpeedEvil | ds2: you can do the USB modem thing |
| 20:19.36 | ds2 | at GPRS speeds |
| 20:19.41 | SpeedEvil | 3G |
| 20:19.55 | ds2 | oh and then get raped by a carrier? |
| 20:20.06 | SpeedEvil | Only if you don't enjoy it. |
| 20:20.20 | ds2 | I donno of a decent US carrier for 3G |
| 20:20.30 | SpeedEvil | Don't think there is |
| 20:20.48 | ds2 | well... |
| 20:21.16 | ds2 | if I paid for data service, it is none of their business what I decide to run on it be it streaming or not |
| 20:22.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: gcc 4.2.1 , binutils 2.17, uclibc 0.9.29 |
| 20:23.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: With the latest Buildroot from svn? I don't see the option for binutils 2.17. It's 2.18 or 2.18.50.1 |
| 20:24.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could patch in 2.17 though. |
| 20:24.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i added 2.17 back in |
| 20:24.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, then maybe that is my problem - binutils 2.18. I'll add 2.17 back in. |
| 20:25.15 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:28.37 | SpeedEvil | ds2: you can get general IP contracts here - they are not inexpensive thought |
| 20:28.39 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:32.00 | prpplague | ds2: what application are you needing PM for? |
| 20:32.31 | prpplague | ~quote scoxq.pk |
| 20:33.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Please do. I'd like to see if it works for you with gcc 4.2.1 |
| 20:34.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Dang. Toolchains do not like me. |
| 20:34.16 | prpplague | <prpplague> no problems with 2.18 |
| 20:34.22 | RobotGuy | I saw |
| 20:35.48 | prpplague | wmat: ping |
| 20:36.00 | prpplague | wmat: <nag> you hammered yet? </nag> |
| 20:38.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: just noticed the lcd page |
| 20:38.57 | CosmicPenguin | its still preetty early in the day to start drinking |
| 20:39.32 | GPSFan | prpplague: just put up a few pix, still need to fill is nome text |
| 20:40.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, naw, imho anything past 9am is ok to drink |
| 20:43.45 | CosmicPenguin | I used to be able to do that |
| 20:43.47 | CosmicPenguin | not any more |
| 20:44.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you will soon enough, wait till your critter gets to be around 7 or 8 |
| 20:44.31 | prpplague | GPSFan: what level shifter did you use? |
| 20:45.08 | GPSFan | 74AC244 with vcc=5v |
| 20:45.23 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh right you told me that yesterday |
| 20:45.51 | GPSFan | memory, it's the first thing to go..... or is it the second? |
| 20:45.57 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:46.06 | prpplague | GPSFan: just been stressed with this lawsuit thing |
| 20:46.45 | CosmicPenguin | my body can't take it |
| 20:47.03 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.114.221) |
| 20:48.13 | prpplague | GPSFan: did you use the 244's just because you had them? i.e. instead of a 245? |
| 20:48.26 | GPSFan | prpplague: well at least you took the first step ang went after them first. |
| 20:48.54 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, i just hope it pays off |
| 20:49.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: btw the patent was actually part of the original metricom ricohet network |
| 20:50.23 | GPSFan | prpplague: I had a AC244 and several LCX, LVX, & VHC parts, of the lot, I wanted to run it off a 5v vcc. |
| 20:50.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, thats what i was thinking |
| 20:51.33 | GPSFan | LCX are great parts but only want vcc= 3.3V max, it would probably work though. |
| 20:53.26 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, i would have chosen a 245 just so i just had one less direction pin to deal with |
| 20:55.38 | GPSFan | prpplague: It would have been easier to wire up if I had a dip part, as it was all I had was sm. dead bug on the back. not pretty. (UBE) |
| 20:55.52 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh |
| 20:59.15 | prpplague | GPSFan: gotta run get the critters, bbiab |
| 20:59.22 | GPSFan | cul.. |
| 21:00.17 | CosmicPenguin | ohh - god |
| 21:00.19 | CosmicPenguin | erm - good |
| 21:00.22 | CosmicPenguin | we need the water |
| 21:01.03 | chouimat|work | ok cul as definitly another meaning in french |
| 21:01.04 | chouimat|work | :) |
| 21:01.35 | GPSFan | CosmicPenguin: we are about 130% normal atm. |
| 21:01.46 | CosmicPenguin | too bad you guys are on the wrong side |
| 21:01.55 | CosmicPenguin | good for lake powell though |
| 21:01.57 | CosmicPenguin | fill it back up |
| 21:05.00 | GPSFan | CosmicPenguin: and or snow pack is over 200% normal => will be a good irrigation water year. ;>) |
| 21:05.32 | CosmicPenguin | I don't know what we're looking at up here - the northern mountains on this side haven't gotten nearly as much |
| 21:05.47 | CosmicPenguin | the Arkansas drainage should be pretty good too |
| 21:06.17 | GPSFan | http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/cgibin/wygraph.pl?stationidname=07k14s-OVERLAND%20RES.&state=CO |
| 21:08.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want your buildroot config file. :) The one for the latest buildroot. |
| 21:10.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Latest toolchain attempt: http://www.pastebin.ca/871260 |
| 21:15.00 | ds2 | prpplague: sorry, lunch - battery power stuff is why I want PM |
| 21:34.19 | prpplague | ds2: hammer runs fine on battery |
| 21:34.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I sure hope so because it will have to on a robot. :) |
| 21:34.42 | prpplague | ds2: i've been getting around 15 hours on a two AA's with 2800mAh |
| 21:35.33 | SpeedEvil | 650mW? Hmm. |
| 21:36.08 | SpeedEvil | well - 550ish - with a not great PSU |
| 21:36.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Latest toolchain attempt: http://www.pastebin.ca/871260 |
| 21:36.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want your buildroot config file. :) The one for the latest buildroot. |
| 21:36.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i was looking |
| 21:36.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. :) |
| 21:36.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like a directory isn't getting created |
| 21:37.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's what I see also, but notice the // there? |
| 21:37.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: did you check the buildroot repo to see if anyone has addressed |
| 21:37.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it? |
| 21:37.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 21:39.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't see anything that refers to this problem, but there are several tidy ups. |
| 21:49.26 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:55.09 | landley | Morning RobotGuy. |
| 21:55.32 | landley | I've now isolated the set of commands Firmware Linux needs to build. |
| 21:56.07 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 21:57.13 | landley | Hiya prpplague. Gimme 5 minutes to finish something else before I can talk... |
| 21:58.20 | prpplague | landley: okie dokie |
| 22:04.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_How_to_use_LCD |
| 22:04.27 | prpplague | GPSFan: refresh you cache |
| 22:05.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Nice. :) |
| 22:06.16 | GPSFan | prpplague: I was getting around to it... but thanks, looks good |
| 22:07.30 | prpplague | GPSFan: not great, but it will do |
| 22:07.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: i'll probably make some schematics up in the next day or so, it was jsut quick and dirty |
| 22:14.15 | GPSFan | prpplague: atm, it is left to the student to generate his own -V. I used a small 1watt 5V=>+/-15 unregulated module and series-pass "regulated" it down to -18 using a 2N3906 in the next schematic. Not good for a production environment, but ok for hacking around. |
| 22:14.35 | *** join/#edev dijenerate_ (n=dijenera@72.51.106.193) |
| 22:15.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, i'm gonna post a schematic for taht |
| 22:16.22 | GPSFan | http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/N/M/A/0/NMA0515S.shtml |
| 22:19.02 | prpplague | hmm, IEEE responded |
| 22:19.30 | prpplague | they said they can't comment on the validity of the claim and that they have opened a dialog with WIAV |
| 22:21.32 | RobotGuy | This is the display I'd like to use, even in a lower number of colors: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8490 |
| 22:21.38 | GPSFan | prpplague: well at least they did something ( remains to be seen whether it will be good or bad for prpplague ) |
| 22:22.26 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea they seem almost a little hostile |
| 22:22.29 | RobotGuy | We can only hope the IEEE will accomplish something good with this. |
| 22:22.45 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-3527.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:22.50 | GPSFan | prpplague: since when was IEEE not hostile? |
| 22:22.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You probably woke them up from their nap. |
| 22:23.05 | prpplague | maybe they're a little sensitive after the last round of 802.11n problems |
| 22:27.01 | RobotGuy | Well, this is about one of their standards, so they darn well ought to be trying to help out. |
| 22:32.23 | landley | And back. |
| 22:33.00 | RobotGuy | And front. |
| 22:35.50 | landley | I've taught my host-tools.sh script to populate a directory with symlinks to every tool the build should need, and then I set $PATH to have only that directory in it and run a build to make sure I've got 'em all. |
| 22:35.55 | landley | Isolating environmental dependencies. Yay. |
| 22:36.10 | landley | Important part of getting the system to build under itself. Knowing what it needs to build. |
| 22:36.27 | landley | Alas, the dependencies are slightly different between i686 and armv4l and so on. |
| 22:36.32 | landley | I'm in whack-a-mole village. |
| 22:36.34 | landley | Again. |
| 22:38.29 | prpplague | landley: fun fun |
| 22:41.33 | prpplague | landley: groklaw still hasn't seem to pick up on the case :( |
| 22:42.34 | prpplague | landley: SFLC wasn't interested either |
| 22:45.59 | prpplague | GPSFan: that a sd card reader from the juicebox kit? |
| 22:46.55 | GPSFan | prpplague: yep. |
| 22:48.22 | landley | On the bright side, It's sort of outside of the SFLC's mandate. I thought they might be interested in advising, but I guess not. |
| 22:48.32 | landley | Must go run, Fade's headed to a coffee shop and I wanna tag along... |
| 22:48.38 | Mirell | 1.1.3 JailBroken, yay. |
| 22:48.47 | prpplague | landley: np, later |
| 22:51.37 | prpplague | GPSFan: hmm, earthlcd has a selection of UG24D's from samsung |
| 22:51.56 | GPSFan | url? |
| 22:53.54 | GPSFan | prpplague: on your lcd driver scchematic VD0 => D3 not D0. same with the rest of the data bits. that's the mistake I made which made the chars come out backwards. |
| 22:54.11 | prpplague | GPSFan: doh i forgot, i'll up date taht |
| 22:54.25 | GPSFan | ;>) |
| 22:55.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: need to find a good source for cheap lcd's |
| 22:56.01 | RobotGuy | I would prefer inexpensive to cheap. :) |
| 22:56.12 | RobotGuy | Inexpensive good quality LCDs. :) |
| 22:56.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what size lcd would you be interested in? |
| 22:57.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: 320x240 |
| 22:57.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: color/mono and what actual size? |
| 22:58.09 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:58.09 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: re |
| 22:58.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Color preferred, and overall size is not that important. However, somethingalthough around the size of the display would be perfect |
| 22:58.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm sorry i did not understand your response |
| 22:59.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Color preferred, and overall size is not that important. However, something close to the size of the display would be perfect. |
| 22:59.31 | RobotGuy | Oh, I didn't realize I sent that twice. |
| 22:59.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: " However, something close to the size of the display would be perfect." |
| 23:00.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, like in a PDA. |
| 23:00.37 | RobotGuy | Something that might fit into a PDA size case, for instance. |
| 23:01.55 | RobotGuy | Look at the display I linked from Spark Fun. That size is perfect. |
| 23:02.44 | RobotGuy | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8490# |
| 23:03.07 | prpplague | yea, 3.5" tft |
| 23:03.19 | RobotGuy | Yes, a very nice little display. |
| 23:03.34 | RobotGuy | TFT might be a problem though. |
| 23:03.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: still not sure how to interpret this "However, something close to the size of the display would be perfect." |
| 23:03.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we are gonna test the tft display stuf next week |
| 23:04.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, forget that and just go by the one I linked. I really like that type of display, and it would be perfect for the remote robot console I want to build. |
| 23:05.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Cool on the TFT stuff. |
| 23:05.26 | prpplague | i would have thought you'd want a larger lcd for that |
| 23:05.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, the 320x240 is perfect for what I want to do with the remote robot console. |
| 23:06.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: larger size, not resolution |
| 23:06.31 | RobotGuy | Now, for my wheel chair lighting and control computer, the larger PSP type display is what I want. |
| 23:06.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahh, OK, I understand now. :) |
| 23:07.10 | RobotGuy | I still think the PDA sized 320x240 is perfect for the remote console. |
| 23:07.34 | RobotGuy | Easy to carry along in a pocket. |
| 23:08.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i think your are subsituting the word size for resolution |
| 23:08.49 | RobotGuy | Having an optional touch screen for the display would be extremely nice also |
| 23:09.07 | RobotGuy | 320 pixels X 240 pixels for the display. |
| 23:12.05 | prpplague | http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2245898,00.html#article_continue |
| 23:12.06 | prpplague | jeeze |
| 23:14.16 | RobotGuy | Sheesh, that is outrageous. |
| 23:14.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you should hear some of my immigration nightmares |
| 23:15.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Now, how about you send me your buildroot config for the latest buildroot? |
| 23:15.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have heard stories of things relating to immigration. |
| 23:15.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you already have it |
| 23:15.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i didn't change a thing |
| 23:15.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do? |
| 23:15.34 | RobotGuy | The standard config? |
| 23:15.37 | prpplague | yep |
| 23:15.46 | RobotGuy | OK, I will try it as is then. |
| 23:15.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: only change is that i used 2.17 instead |
| 23:15.59 | prpplague | for binutils |
| 23:16.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, immigration to the US is totally broken, thats why we have so many illegals |
| 23:16.46 | RobotGuy | Did you use the 2.6.22.10 kernel headers also? |
| 23:17.01 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 23:17.25 | prpplague | yea |
| 23:17.30 | RobotGuy | gcc 4.2.1? |
| 23:17.35 | prpplague | yep |
| 23:17.40 | RobotGuy | OK, here goes! |
| 23:32.45 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20|prom (n=jamesdoe@pool-96-226-38-56.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |