| 00:22.02 | Mirell | Woot, got my prescription insurance card in the mail today now. |
| 00:40.27 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp046.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 01:43.26 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@70.249.150.251) |
| 02:07.57 | *** join/#edev dijenerate_ (n=dijenera@72.51.74.148) |
| 02:08.58 | MonMotha | prpplague: apparently, getting sick in NY as a single parent is a bad idea |
| 02:12.47 | Mirell | MonMotha: Eh? |
| 02:13.14 | MonMotha | the article he posted earlier |
| 02:13.19 | Mirell | Ahh |
| 02:40.48 | *** join/#edev dijenerate_ (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 02:46.52 | *** join/#edev Dr{Who} (n=mathewss@dev.null.nutech.com) |
| 03:06.02 | wmat | prpplague: saw your ping earlier and no, i'm not hammered yet |
| 03:06.11 | wmat | prpplague: it's hooked up and plugged in though |
| 04:00.21 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 04:39.21 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:6af1) |
| 05:49.02 | Mirell | wmat: Drink more, then. </bad joke> |
| 06:40.02 | *** join/#edev steliosk (n=Stelios@athedsl-310048.home.otenet.gr) |
| 07:24.22 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp101.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 07:33.19 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@224.197-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:41.50 | *** join/#edev hw_ (n=hw@p578b3905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:43.43 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD3065.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:46.17 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@82-32-35-42.cable.ubr05.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:03.37 | *** join/#edev __lifeless (n=patrick@89.20.104.38) |
| 11:57.37 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp176.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 11:59.07 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 12:38.58 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD3065.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:12.26 | *** join/#edev sjhill (n=sjhill@real.realitydiluted.com) |
| 13:30.54 | wmat | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:30.59 | wmat | heh |
| 13:56.57 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@e179236080.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:14.49 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 14:15.26 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 14:15.42 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave@70.249.150.251) |
| 14:21.42 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-4044.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 14:26.39 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 14:26.39 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 14:28.02 | prpplague | wheee new circuit cellar out today |
| 14:28.08 | prpplague | GPSFan: greetings |
| 14:28.31 | GPSFan | prpplague: morning.. |
| 14:28.58 | prpplague | GPSFan: whats cookin? |
| 14:29.26 | GPSFan | prp bg micro gas those 128 x 64 lcds for ~10.00 is that what your looking for? |
| 14:29.48 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, i was looking at that those |
| 14:30.02 | prpplague | GPSFan: i think i posted the datasheet for it a few days ago |
| 14:30.12 | prpplague | GPSFan: its got a controller onboard |
| 14:30.19 | prpplague | GPSFan: so we'd need to do a fb driver |
| 14:30.23 | GPSFan | sf wants ~20 for a similar one... same internal chips.. |
| 14:30.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, allelectronics has another 256x128 for around the same |
| 14:30.57 | GPSFan | iirc there is a ks108 fb driver. |
| 14:31.09 | prpplague | http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/LCD-101/365/256_X_128_LCD_PANEL_.html |
| 14:31.21 | prpplague | GPSFan: oh yea? |
| 14:31.29 | GPSFan | yeah saw that one too yesterday. |
| 14:31.31 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=mchouina@209.217.106.98) |
| 14:32.15 | GPSFan | it's in /linux/drivers/auxdisplay |
| 14:32.16 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 14:32.33 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greetings |
| 14:32.49 | chouimat|work | prpplague I got my new toy last night |
| 14:32.57 | prpplague | GPSFan: oh wow, didn't know that was there |
| 14:33.14 | prpplague | chouimat|work: d00d, its not nice to talk about a woman like that |
| 14:33.18 | GPSFan | prpplague: probably needs some work, parallel port |
| 14:33.25 | chouimat|work | prpplague lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauppauge_MediaMVP |
| 14:33.51 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, there is a ks108 driver as part of the arcfb.c in drivers/video |
| 14:34.02 | prpplague | chouimat|work: nice |
| 14:34.14 | chouimat|work | prpplague not bad for 97 $ |
| 14:34.29 | prpplague | nope |
| 14:34.44 | prpplague | GPSFan: quick look of the code, should be hackable |
| 14:35.04 | GPSFan | gotta run, lots to do today, and 3-4" new snow too... |
| 14:36.38 | prpplague | GPSFan: fun fun |
| 14:36.51 | chouimat|work | prpplague mine has 2 MAC addresses of when it's wired and one when it's wireless ... |
| 14:36.59 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-4044.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 14:55.45 | chouimat|work | ? |
| 14:56.02 | prpplague | just being grouchy for a friday morning |
| 14:56.30 | prpplague | chouimat|work: this lawsuit thing added yet another thing to worry about |
| 14:56.56 | chouimat|work | prpplague i agree this must be extremenly fun :) |
| 14:57.38 | prpplague | chouimat|work: for the first time since i started working for AML, we have project that is in total chaos |
| 14:58.16 | prpplague | it has me totally deperessed |
| 14:59.33 | chouimat|work | prpplague I know this feeling |
| 15:00.01 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-4044.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 15:01.04 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:22.09 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.206.114) |
| 15:32.14 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 15:32.14 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 15:35.21 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-3837.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 15:49.45 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 15:50.27 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.238.86.158.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 15:52.46 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:54.41 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 15:56.41 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:04.39 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:09.23 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:38.19 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
| 16:38.42 | Mirell | What's a nice way to see if there's differences in files on three different servers that you have to use sudo to get access to. |
| 16:41.52 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:46.12 | *** join/#edev Heet (n=lucas@a82-92-5-118.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:46.24 | *** part/#edev Heet (n=lucas@a82-92-5-118.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:52.01 | agaffney | Mirell: there isn't :P |
| 16:54.28 | Mirell | Heh. |
| 17:26.20 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 17:35.00 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-444.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 17:43.02 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD3065.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:47.21 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:40.33 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:00.42 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-197-167.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 19:05.19 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:07.03 | RobotGuy | G'Mornin' |
| 19:13.13 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:16.26 | prpplague | ~WAIV |
| 19:16.30 | prpplague | ~WIAVV |
| 19:16.31 | prpplague | ~WIAV |
| 19:16.32 | purl | [wiav] a patent troll with information at http://trolltracker.blogspot.com/2008/01/4-interesting-new-cases-from-last-2.html and http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/205753-texas-company-seeks-judgement-to-stop-potential-patent-suit |
| 19:16.57 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 19:16.59 | prpplague | sjhill: have a look at that |
| 19:17.24 | prpplague | sjhill: they are claiming all of 802.11 is in violation of their patent and are hitting up companies to pay for a license |
| 19:19.22 | SpeedEvil | you've poked ##kernel ##linux with this? |
| 19:19.53 | SpeedEvil | and maybe posted to LKML - there are 802.11 core drivers in the kernel now |
| 19:20.56 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i've been told that since none the of the core developers have been approached its really only our problem at this stage |
| 19:21.45 | prpplague | SFLC/OSDL/FSF all aren't interesting since we are a commercial entity |
| 19:22.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think they are all stupid for that lack of interest. |
| 19:22.43 | prpplague | i'm somewhat surprised |
| 19:23.04 | prpplague | i think its probably my fault in that i'm not making the seriousness of the situation clear |
| 19:23.09 | chouimat|work | prpplague sometimes I think things like this goes beyond stupid politcs (the FSF and friends lack of interest) |
| 19:23.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What touches a so called 'commercial entity' touches us ALL in this case. |
| 19:23.47 | prpplague | yea, plus our insurance company is pushing us to settle |
| 19:24.16 | chouimat|work | prpplague I wonders why ... wait they don't want to pay too much :) |
| 19:24.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's even MORE stupid. I hate insurance companies in cases like this. |
| 19:25.00 | RobotGuy | Insurance companies on care about one thing in the end - their own bottom line. |
| 19:31.10 | GPSFan | prpplague: and if you do settle, it will only embolden WIAV to go after the next target, while funding their "war chest". |
| 19:31.29 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, unfortuantely, not my decision, i can only advise |
| 19:35.21 | RobotGuy | It's times like this when I am REALLY disappointed in all of Open Source. |
| 19:35.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Does your Boss want to press through and ignore the insurance company's plea to settle? |
| 19:36.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they don't discuss that kind of stuff with me |
| 19:38.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, I guess we can only assume for now that they are wanting to press forward as long as they have you involved in researching stuff. |
| 19:39.26 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-444.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:39.55 | GPSFan | prpplague: another n-data article just popped up as a newspick on gl. http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20080125051610202 |
| 19:45.07 | joe_bleau | prpplague: Someone else has a nail-type dev board: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4837503255.html |
| 19:51.43 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea i've seen that before on linuxdevices, but i've not heard of anyone actually getting one |
| 19:52.30 | prpplague | joe_bleau: its not even listed on the website |
| 19:54.30 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea the big difference here is that the original owner of the patent was part of the ieee standards and had provided a letter of assurance |
| 19:54.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: metricom was never a member of IEEE 802.11 group |
| 19:54.52 | prpplague | GPSFan: and never provided a letter of assurance for that patent |
| 19:55.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: nether was terabeam |
| 19:55.12 | prpplague | GPSFan: proxim was, but only provided for 3 patents |
| 19:55.23 | prpplague | GPSFan: one of which is owned by WIAV |
| 19:57.21 | GPSFan | prpplague: not my point, my point is that the articke has been picked up twice by gl's newspicks and the WIAV article has been ignored. |
| 19:57.32 | RobotGuy | Did Proxim issue some sort of letter like National did with Ethernet negotiation? |
| 19:57.35 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh |
| 19:58.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea its called an LOA or "letter of assurance" |
| 19:58.13 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh |
| 19:58.25 | prpplague | GPSFan: well, i'm not sure why the WIAV issue is being ignored |
| 19:58.47 | RobotGuy | So can't the FTC do the same thing with WAIV they did with N-Data? |
| 19:58.48 | prpplague | GPSFan: maybe because there isn't enough press coverage |
| 19:59.25 | prpplague | <prpplague> GPSFan: metricom was never a member of IEEE 802.11 group |
| 19:59.25 | prpplague | <prpplague> GPSFan: and never provided a letter of assurance for that patent |
| 19:59.37 | GPSFan | prpplague: don't know, I just added a comment to about it, referencing both articles |
| 19:59.39 | *** join/#edev VK4FSJL (n=stuartl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) |
| 19:59.47 | prpplague | GPSFan: thanks |
| 20:00.32 | RobotGuy | So there was or was not an LOA with respect to the patent WAIV is suing companies over? |
| 20:00.47 | RobotGuy | This is all so confusing. |
| 20:01.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: correct, metricom never promised not to sue |
| 20:01.53 | joe_bleau | prpplague: Really? http://www.ssv-comm.de/de/produkte/tuxstick.php |
| 20:01.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: where did you post a commetn |
| 20:01.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK, so this is not quite the same situation as the patent with National and N-Data. |
| 20:02.19 | prpplague | joe_bleau: thats interesting |
| 20:02.41 | prpplague | joe_bleau: ahh not the english site |
| 20:02.48 | joe_bleau | Yeah, I was looking at the DIN rail stuff and happened to see it in the press releases. |
| 20:03.07 | joe_bleau | Looks like they're copying your DIL module idea, too. Theirs is slower and has more pins, however. |
| 20:03.26 | RobotGuy | I'd rather have faster and more pins. :) |
| 20:03.32 | prpplague | joe_bleau: we are DIP, theirs is DIL |
| 20:03.42 | joe_bleau | Sorry. |
| 20:03.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague just admitting to being DIP. :D:D |
| 20:03.56 | prpplague | joe_bleau: i don't see a price |
| 20:04.19 | joe_bleau | I'm not even sure they sell in the USA. |
| 20:04.35 | prpplague | tuxstick isn't listed on the english site |
| 20:05.08 | prpplague | Der Tux/Stick wird vorr. ab Q1/2008 zunächst als Entwicklungsvariante ohne Gehäuse erhältlich sein. |
| 20:05.09 | GPSFan | prpplague: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4837503255.html |
| 20:05.30 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea thats what we are looking |
| 20:05.32 | joe_bleau | Think it's vapor? |
| 20:05.37 | joe_bleau | I do. |
| 20:05.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Here is something to distract you: http://www.pastebin.ca/872468 |
| 20:05.54 | prpplague | seeing how the original post was feb13, of 2007 |
| 20:06.27 | GPSFan | prpplague: ah, interesting device though. |
| 20:06.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like a path not set |
| 20:06.36 | prpplague | GPSFan: indeed |
| 20:06.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have not changed my PATH. |
| 20:07.04 | prpplague | GPSFan: ours is bigger, but mainly because we are using thru hole connections |
| 20:07.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i didn't say you did |
| 20:07.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i suspect one of the build files has a problem with the path |
| 20:07.54 | prpplague | GPSFan: the nail is 1.1" x 5" |
| 20:08.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. Durn. I 'spose I have to figure out which one. |
| 20:08.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: "Der Tux/Stick wird vorr. ab Q1/2008 zunächst als Entwicklungsvariante ohne Gehäuse erhältlich sein." |
| 20:08.45 | prpplague | GPSFan: oops |
| 20:08.46 | GPSFan | prpplague: it looks like a real layout in the picture, but the linux-devices article is dated Feb 2007. |
| 20:08.49 | prpplague | GPSFan: wrong paste |
| 20:08.54 | prpplague | GPSFan: |
| 20:08.54 | prpplague | The Tux/Stick is based on SSV's tiny DNP/9200, a miniature ARM9-powered SBC (single-board computer) that comes preinstalled with Linux. The DNP/9200 processor module measures 3.2 x 1.1 inches (82 x 28mm), and fits into a standard JEDEC DIL (dual-inline) socket with 64 pins spaced at 0.1 inches. |
| 20:08.56 | RobotGuy | I want a pen that really writes, but has a secret identity as a tack board (266Mhz ARM9, 128 MB RAM, 32MB Flash). :D |
| 20:09.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they sell one |
| 20:09.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Who does? |
| 20:09.28 | prpplague | looks like the tuxstix couldn't be any smaller than 3.2x1.1 |
| 20:09.33 | prpplague | as ours is 5x1.1 |
| 20:09.40 | prpplague | 2 inches longer, same width |
| 20:09.53 | RobotGuy | In a mini-coffin case. |
| 20:10.23 | joe_bleau | They claim built in 10/100 networking |
| 20:11.13 | prpplague | joe_bleau: "This plug accepts "media couplers" that provide various interfaces. Available interfaces include 10/100 Ethernet, SPI, USB host, and serial UART interfaces. " |
| 20:11.14 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: If they won't show the board, then I would guess they are hiding something (maybe the fact it doesn't really exist). |
| 20:12.25 | joe_bleau | Oh, they'll show you the CPU module: http://www.dilnetpc.com/ |
| 20:13.22 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea thats theitr standard module inside |
| 20:14.17 | GPSFan | http://www.gridconnect.com/ssv9200.html |
| 20:14.34 | prpplague | based on ou rconverstations here, i don't really think having a 10/100 is that important to many people |
| 20:14.50 | joe_bleau | It's also a lot slower and apparently more expensive. |
| 20:15.01 | prpplague | ahh yea, looks like they are using a davicom phy |
| 20:15.27 | prpplague | ahh $190 just for the cpu board |
| 20:16.17 | prpplague | interesting they claim its 200mips |
| 20:16.30 | RobotGuy | I'd rather have a standard 10/100 Ethernet connection than have to fiddle with Gadget Ethernet. |
| 20:16.53 | CosmicPenguin | erm - what? |
| 20:17.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh why? |
| 20:17.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ?? |
| 20:18.30 | prpplague | thats interesting, atmel claims 200mips @ 180mhz |
| 20:18.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Because a standard ethernet connection takes less fiddling to get working. |
| 20:18.40 | CosmicPenguin | again - what? |
| 20:18.49 | prpplague | <CosmicPenguin> erm - what? |
| 20:18.57 | CosmicPenguin | they're going in different directions |
| 20:19.08 | ds2 | the "gadget" is probally just the magnetics |
| 20:19.25 | RobotGuy | ds2: Gadget is USB. |
| 20:19.28 | CosmicPenguin | seriously, what is with people and UDC lately? |
| 20:19.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: he means that the underlying code for the ethernet gadget is the same as most ethernet controlers |
| 20:19.56 | ds2 | guess I mis read |
| 20:20.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just the phy is replaced with the usb code |
| 20:20.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, OK. |
| 20:20.12 | ds2 | thought that thing has a PHY for a real ethernet |
| 20:20.21 | RobotGuy | I don't much care what it is as long as it works. |
| 20:20.58 | RobotGuy | I do have the Gadget Ethernet setup on Hammer. Just don't have it working on the PC yet. |
| 20:21.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not sure what you are refering to, something i said? |
| 20:21.10 | CosmicPenguin | no - RobotGuy |
| 20:21.16 | prpplague | oh |
| 20:21.18 | CosmicPenguin | I don't understand why people think they want to use UDC like that |
| 20:21.24 | RobotGuy | me gives CosmicPenguin a big chocolate chip cookie. |
| 20:21.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as an ethernet gadget? |
| 20:21.39 | CosmicPenguin | Somebody said the same thing for OLPC - they want UDC so that if the wireless dies they can still do ethernet |
| 20:21.40 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Because it's what I have to work with at present. |
| 20:21.43 | CosmicPenguin | and I'm like - what? |
| 20:21.58 | ds2 | UDC == ? |
| 20:22.09 | RobotGuy | I need networking from my Hammer so I can work with other stuff. |
| 20:22.12 | joe_bleau | Yeah, what's UDC? |
| 20:22.16 | chouimat|work | udc? |
| 20:22.22 | CosmicPenguin | So why do you turn it into a device? Is that all you have available on the outgoing side? |
| 20:22.43 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: It's the only networking I have available on Hammer right now. |
| 20:22.47 | joe_bleau | USB device controller, perhaps? |
| 20:22.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, for the nail board it will be |
| 20:23.02 | prpplague | joe_bleau: correct |
| 20:23.06 | CosmicPenguin | right - we talked about that |
| 20:23.25 | CosmicPenguin | but I thought that the hammer had host USB out |
| 20:23.30 | CosmicPenguin | mabye I'm confused about that? |
| 20:23.42 | RobotGuy | I need to be able to get some software talking to a remote X screen on my PC. |
| 20:23.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed the hammer and nail board does have a usb host out |
| 20:24.10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you can plug something like a usb 802.11b/g dongle in if you wanted to |
| 20:24.11 | CosmicPenguin | okay - I see what RobotGuy is trying to do |
| 20:24.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 20:25.00 | CosmicPenguin | I know |
| 20:25.03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the nail board has one one end a udc connection |
| 20:25.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and usb host on the other |
| 20:25.30 | CosmicPenguin | I was just confused as to why RobotGuy was doing what he was doing, but its clear that he's trying to do the network connection between the two systems without extra hardware for the RJ45 |
| 20:25.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: exactly |
| 20:25.48 | CosmicPenguin | Which is indeed a good use for the gadget ethernet |
| 20:26.09 | CosmicPenguin | A difficult use, but a good one |
| 20:26.36 | CosmicPenguin | I've just been dealing with lots of people who think they need UDC on the XO, but don't really have any good ideas as to why they need it |
| 20:26.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: right, so basically for the nail, you'll plug it into your laptop with one cable, you get a serial console, jtag interface, and the usb gadget(defaulting to ethernet gadget) |
| 20:27.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: everything set up properly, no reason you couldn't do a remote x session |
| 20:27.08 | CosmicPenguin | Turning the XO into a glorified webcam is not a good idea |
| 20:27.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe indeed |
| 20:27.29 | prpplague | GPSFan: where did you post your comment? |
| 20:29.26 | RobotGuy | I just can't get the interface setup on the PC side. |
| 20:30.08 | RobotGuy | Besides, I get this working and I can add it to the Wiki. :) |
| 20:30.38 | GPSFan | prpplague: http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20080123181840701&title=FTC+bars+company+from+higher+royalties&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=667549#c667698 |
| 20:31.38 | prpplague | GPSFan: hmm, i guess i don't know my way around groklaw |
| 20:33.34 | RobotGuy | I have all the modules loaded, but maybe the kernel is not setup right. |
| 20:33.56 | RobotGuy | I'm going to reboot to my new 2.6.23.12 kernel. |
| 20:34.29 | joe_bleau | prpplague: 200 MIPS referenced at: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=2983 |
| 20:34.50 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea, i realized i was thinking bogomips |
| 20:35.14 | prpplague | joe_bleau: that part running at linux at 180mhz is just 90 bogomis |
| 20:35.18 | prpplague | bogomips |
| 20:36.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: ok call me an idiot(insert jokes here), but i don't see where to go to read comments on the news headlines on groklaw |
| 20:37.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: do you have to register to see that stuff? |
| 20:44.19 | CosmicPenguin | Patch just went out to make the USB driver API GPL only |
| 20:44.32 | CosmicPenguin | Not a earthshaking move |
| 20:44.40 | CosmicPenguin | but still bold |
| 20:44.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed |
| 20:45.33 | GPSFan | prpplague: I put it as a comment about the n-data article in tha newspics section of this story, it was the latest comment about that article. I wasn't sure where to put it either. |
| 20:46.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: i see a newspic section on the right hand side, but i don't see any fields for comments |
| 20:46.45 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=RobotGuy@dsl093-038-120.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:46.58 | GPSFan | there isn't as far as I can tell. |
| 20:47.33 | RobotGuy | Now I can't boot into Linux for some reason. :( Nothing is working today. |
| 20:48.54 | GPSFan | the first time I used the mailto "suggest a news story" link. |
| 20:48.56 | ds2 | that is a nice part; it is one of the few remaining ARMs available in singles that is also available in a PQFP |
| 20:49.13 | RobotGuy | ds2: Which one? |
| 20:49.18 | ds2 | the AT91RM9200 |
| 20:49.47 | T0mW | prpplague: click on the link to the article, the comments are on the bottom. |
| 20:49.52 | ds2 | and it can boot strap w/o JTAG |
| 20:50.08 | ds2 | came close to doing a board with it then I found out about 4 layer board costs :( |
| 20:56.00 | prpplague | T0mW: that takes you off groklaw |
| 20:56.13 | T0mW | oh |
| 20:57.41 | prpplague | ds2: you mean it has a method for programming the bootload without jtag? |
| 20:58.36 | joe_bleau | prpplague: it's quite common for microcontollers to offer a UART interface for erasing and programming on-chip flash. |
| 21:00.36 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea i know, just wanted to make sure |
| 21:06.24 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=linuxguy@dsl093-038-070.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:16.54 | ds2 | prpplague: yep |
| 21:17.21 | ds2 | drive one pin and it looks for Xmodem download on the UART |
| 21:17.27 | T0mW | unless it is an ARM processor |
| 21:17.41 | ds2 | in this case, it is an ARM |
| 21:17.47 | T0mW | no JTAG? |
| 21:17.51 | ds2 | they have JTAG |
| 21:18.12 | ds2 | but UART is nicer, IMO for those of us who haven't spent the time building a jtag or buying one |
| 21:18.15 | joe_bleau | The LPC2xxx micros have both serial bootload and JTAG |
| 21:18.28 | joe_bleau | I like serial bootload for field updates. |
| 21:18.35 | T0mW | agreed |
| 21:18.46 | ds2 | joe_bleau: do they come in nonBGA packages? |
| 21:19.00 | T0mW | If they don't have it, you can write one |
| 21:19.05 | joe_bleau | ds2: Do what come in non-BGA packages. |
| 21:19.17 | ds2 | the LPC2xxxx micros |
| 21:19.18 | T0mW | ds2: yes, LPC2000 parts are leaded parts |
| 21:19.22 | joe_bleau | yep |
| 21:19.31 | ds2 | nice |
| 21:19.37 | T0mW | ds2: 60..70MHz |
| 21:19.40 | ds2 | digikey-able? |
| 21:19.45 | T0mW | yes |
| 21:19.53 | ds2 | do the have MMU's? |
| 21:19.56 | T0mW | NO |
| 21:20.01 | T0mW | ARM7TDMI-S |
| 21:20.06 | ds2 | oh puny arms... the RM9200 has a MMU |
| 21:20.14 | joe_bleau | micro *controller* |
| 21:20.20 | T0mW | heh |
| 21:20.24 | RobotGuy | T0mW: I don't think that is correct, at least for all LPC2xxx parts. |
| 21:20.28 | joe_bleau | The LPC3xxx might. I'm not up on that one. |
| 21:20.39 | joe_bleau | (Aren't some of the big ones arm9?) |
| 21:20.51 | RobotGuy | LPC3xxx are ARM9 |
| 21:20.51 | *** join/#edev redb1ue (i=star@ppp149.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 21:20.51 | ds2 | they have their places, just like the SiLab 8051's have their places |
| 21:21.01 | T0mW | yeah, they are reaching into the bigger stuff. Not sure about an mmu with LPC3K's though |
| 21:21.21 | RobotGuy | T0mW: LPC3xxx have MMUs. |
| 21:21.25 | T0mW | ARM7TDMI is the new 8051 |
| 21:21.40 | T0mW | ARM7TDMI is the new 8051 / 68HC11 |
| 21:21.45 | ds2 | what's the fewest number of pins ARM7TDMI available? |
| 21:22.05 | RobotGuy | ds2: LPC2148 is 64 pins. |
| 21:22.08 | joe_bleau | Hey, one of the LPC3xxx chips even has an FPU. I forgot about that feature. |
| 21:22.10 | T0mW | prolly LPC2101/LPC2013 |
| 21:22.14 | ds2 | !!! |
| 21:22.29 | T0mW | doh, LPC210[1..3] |
| 21:22.32 | ds2 | be nice to see a SOIC or DIP-16 ARM7TDMI |
| 21:22.39 | T0mW | why? |
| 21:22.54 | ds2 | trivial to prototype |
| 21:22.57 | joe_bleau | Luminary has 28 pin Cortex M3 devices, I think. |
| 21:23.05 | ds2 | can use use them on those old plug in breadboards |
| 21:23.06 | T0mW | ds2: get a toaster oven |
| 21:23.41 | ds2 | I have an oven, just no easy source for _SMALL_ quantities of paste |
| 21:23.55 | T0mW | digikey |
| 21:24.03 | ds2 | If I recall, cost of paste was more then the cost of the oven, bought new! |
| 21:25.01 | RobotGuy | What debian packages are required to make buildroot work? |
| 21:25.19 | ds2 | heh the cheapest digikey paste is about the same price as my oven (new, retail store price)! |
| 21:25.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no clue |
| 21:25.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you can run any bootloader that supports the s3c2410 on the hammer |
| 21:25.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: any bootloader that supports arm9 should run with some tweaks |
| 21:26.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: and any bootloader that supports xscale can be ported to the s3c2410 with some core changes |
| 21:26.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do you have a problem with apex? |
| 21:26.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. Nothing much boots for me today so I just gave up for now. |
| 21:26.40 | T0mW | I purchase my paste in 500gram jars, then refridgerate it. Last jar is still good after a year. |
| 21:26.52 | RobotGuy | prpplage: No. I just like to tinker. |
| 21:26.57 | ds2 | how many CC is 500g? |
| 21:27.14 | T0mW | that is weight, not volume |
| 21:27.21 | CosmicPenguin | 500g of what? |
| 21:27.30 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: solder paste |
| 21:27.33 | ds2 | yes, I donno the density hence the q |
| 21:27.34 | RobotGuy | I was going to try buildroot on my server, but it needs something I don't have installed |
| 21:27.41 | CosmicPenguin | duh |
| 21:27.42 | CosmicPenguin | read |
| 21:27.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you saying there is a problem with apex? |
| 21:27.44 | CosmicPenguin | dummy |
| 21:27.52 | RobotGuy | prpplage: NO. |
| 21:28.04 | ds2 | Hmmm interesting the smallest digikey quantity is in CC but everything else is in g's... |
| 21:28.10 | chouimat|work | CosmicPenguin: :) |
| 21:28.53 | T0mW | ds2: naw, they are in grams |
| 21:29.34 | ds2 | T0mW: nope. SMD291AX-ND on digikey is in CC! |
| 21:29.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: okie dokie |
| 21:30.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: well, LAB, u-boot, bootldr, and several others are supported for s3c2410 |
| 21:30.15 | T0mW | ds2: try KE1507-ND |
| 21:31.14 | T0mW | ds2: that should be enough for one board, maybe two (6" X 6"), it is expensive to purchase in such tiny amounts. |
| 21:31.23 | ds2 | what's the difference (if you know off hand)? if not, I'm diving into Chipquik's site |
| 21:31.31 | T0mW | the 500gr jar is more money, but you get better value |
| 21:31.59 | ds2 | the SMD291AX-ND is 5CC which seems to be what I can use in a reasonable amount of time |
| 21:32.23 | T0mW | heh |
| 21:32.45 | ds2 | ah that's 15g |
| 21:32.56 | T0mW | 35grams is about a blob of paste that is 3/8" dia, by 3/4" high |
| 21:33.26 | ds2 | I tend to do things in bursts so large volume with a 1year shelf life is not good |
| 21:35.09 | chouimat|work | prpplague I take the easiest approach they are all m*ns :) |
| 21:35.31 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:35.36 | T0mW | well, a 35gram tube is $50 + overnight shipping (they won't send it any other way), a 500gr jar is $90 + 6 |
| 21:35.48 | prpplague | chouimat|work: well he does get around to alot of the robot groups |
| 21:36.01 | T0mW | well, a 35gram tube is $50 + overnight shipping (they won't send it any other way), a 500gr jar is $90 + $60 shipping, that is over 10 times the amount for the same money |
| 21:36.13 | chouimat|work | prpplague I knew this :) |
| 21:37.00 | T0mW | ds2: a lot easier to put the unused paste back into a jar than it is to shove it back into a tube, heh. |
| 21:37.09 | ds2 | oh overnight... sigh |
| 21:37.18 | ds2 | T0mW: My oven only cost me about $12!!! |
| 21:37.57 | T0mW | ds2: lucky you, I paid $60 for mine (four element 1500W) |
| 21:38.27 | ds2 | T0mW: Mine is a walmart toaster oven. got it for general shop use |
| 21:39.26 | T0mW | bottom line though is that through-hole (PDIP) parts are rapidly disappearing. If you want to continue to build your own boards you need to deal with smd. |
| 21:40.08 | ds2 | T0mW: the desire for PDIP parts is so I can use those ancient plugable bread boards |
| 21:40.23 | ds2 | I can handle SMD parts but mindless plugging is nice at times |
| 21:40.52 | T0mW | ds2: it *is* more expensive. I have a $2K binocular 10X/20X microscope to do rework and solder inspection. About $500 into my MetCal SP-200 soldering station, etc. |
| 21:43.00 | T0mW | I've also got about $3.5K tied up in a hot-air reflow rework station that pretty much sits on the shelf anymore since the toaster oven appeared. |
| 21:43.33 | ds2 | expensive toys |
| 21:43.52 | *** join/#edev samuelr (n=samuelr@dsl093-061-094.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:44.30 | T0mW | I tried to do surface mount on-the-cheap, but it is time consuming to try to save money. I used to etch my own boards, etc., no more. I just lay them out in EagleCAD and send them out for fabrication, then populate them myself. |
| 21:45.02 | T0mW | prpplague: you might say that, but if i wasn't getting paid for this I would still be doing it. heh |
| 21:45.18 | prpplague | T0mW: indeed, i was refering to the "expensive toys" comment |
| 21:45.50 | T0mW | ds2: you could get a monocular 10X childrens microscope and use that. |
| 21:46.46 | ds2 | T0mW: probally goiung to cobble together something like this - |
| 21:46.47 | ds2 | http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/uster2/uster2.htm |
| 21:47.26 | T0mW | ds2: that is a nice idea |
| 21:48.22 | ds2 | T0mW: it comes down to me not having a long stretch of time to do things so having to wait on a step might mean the project gets shelved for a while |
| 21:49.49 | T0mW | ds2: yeah, I've bitched to Advanced Circuits about their delivery times. Only options they offer are express delivery companies, I've found that USPO Priority Mail is much cheaper. |
| 21:50.22 | T0mW | 5day turn + 5day ground shipping (UPS) does teach me patience |
| 21:51.48 | ds2 | T0mW: talking about getting behind.. I still haven't assembled the zipit stuff :( |
| 21:52.02 | T0mW | My problem is that I like to walk away from a new board layout for a couple of days, then come back to review it later to see what I've missed. I usually submit my design data on a Sunday, they ship on Friday, then UPS sits on the fsck'in boards over the weekend |
| 21:52.31 | T0mW | ds2: we have Linux running on the Z2 now |
| 21:52.54 | T0mW | ds2: you boot from the SD card with no mods |
| 21:53.56 | ds2 | =) |
| 21:54.20 | T0mW | I know, all that work on the Z1 ... |
| 21:54.58 | ds2 | is there a site on the Z2? |
| 22:00.18 | T0mW | ds2: http://linux.zipitwireless.com/wiki/ |
| 22:03.19 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave@70.249.150.251) |
| 22:04.56 | ds2 | 2.4.21?! |
| 22:05.20 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:05.30 | ds2 | what's with the lack of real info |
| 22:05.46 | prpplague | ds2: because they have no clue |
| 22:06.08 | T0mW | ds2: on the Z1 or Z2? |
| 22:06.18 | ds2 | ah n/m wrong link, that was Z1 |
| 22:06.47 | ds2 | is there a summary of the processor or even a photo of it? =) |
| 22:10.39 | ds2 | bangs |
| 22:12.25 | ds2 | it is very annoying when things work prefectly one day and stop working the next w/o any changes whatsoever |
| 22:26.23 | ds2 | prpplague: have you seen this: (1/16 dated) http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5igWqJa46OGMUBQuYr57Jgqhdj7BAD8U73Q5G0 |
| 22:34.48 | prpplague | ds2: nope thanks for the pointer |
| 23:09.53 | *** join/#edev CosmicPe1guin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 23:12.18 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 23:12.27 | prpplague | beer time |
| 23:19.04 | *** join/#edev chouimat|busy (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 23:22.56 | landley | Interviewing for a job doing web stuff. |
| 23:23.10 | landley | PHP and mysql. |
| 23:23.35 | landley | Strange looking at this and going "some people are excited by this"... |
| 23:23.41 | prpplague | landley: eh gads |
| 23:23.50 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 23:23.53 | landley | (Decent pay, it's across the street from where my wife works, seems like a cool group of guys.) |
| 23:24.12 | landley | Essentially doing e-commerce retail in an academic niche. |
| 23:24.20 | landley | It's just... php and mysql. Huh. |
| 23:26.03 | Mirell | landley: But it'll pay the bills and help get the company off the ground |
| 23:26.24 | landley | The problem is, if I take a full time job doing something else, it helps me bank up money to be in a better financial position to launch a company... |
| 23:26.39 | landley | but it probably means I won't be doing much with embedded development for another year or two. |
| 23:26.51 | Mirell | Mmm |
| 23:27.12 | landley | Either way, I should get a FWL release out this weekend. |
| 23:27.39 | landley | I've got all the build dependencies enumerated. I know _exactly_ which commands are needed from the host environment, and have the $PATH set to a directory with just those commands. |
| 23:27.45 | landley | Most of which are busybox/toybox commands. :) |
| 23:27.55 | Mirell | landley: Got build-alone sed yet? |
| 23:27.56 | landley | And most of the rest are binutils/gcc. |
| 23:27.56 | prpplague | ahh |
| 23:28.09 | landley | Mirell: haven't had time to work on it this week. |
| 23:28.12 | landley | Maybe by monday. |
| 23:28.55 | landley | I plan to do a quick FWL release with more or less what I've got, and then implement rebuilding under itself and the distcc trick for the next release. |
| 23:29.02 | landley | I have to fix... |
| 23:29.50 | landley | cp, find, install, od, and sort. |
| 23:30.01 | landley | Neither toybox nor busybox currently have a usable version of those. |
| 23:30.10 | landley | (Which is sad because sort _was_ working... Grrr.) |
| 23:30.53 | landley | All the rest of the host-tools I need that busybox and toybox don't currently have come from binutils/gcc/make. |
| 23:31.26 | landley | I can port the sort I wrote to toybox and fix it up, and implement the other four. |
| 23:31.35 | landley | ("find" is a bit of work, the rest are pretty simple.) |
| 23:31.52 | landley | And finish up sed to make macosx hosting much easier, and gene2fs so I can drop user mode linux. |
| 23:31.54 | landley | And implement distcc. |
| 23:31.57 | landley | That's the next release. |
| 23:34.19 | landley | The sad part is it's all achievable in a finite amount of time. Probably 1 month. |
| 23:34.43 | landley | But having technology shipping in a usable state != having a business... |