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| 00:09.07 | RobotGuy | Greets, landley. |
| 00:09.46 | landley | RobotGuy: hiya. |
| 00:09.48 | landley | I think I'm late for something. :( |
| 00:09.54 | RobotGuy | For what? |
| 00:16.33 | landley | Something that could be rescheduled to midnight. |
| 00:17.30 | landley | A local Austin comedy group does live action MST3K treatment for movies. Currently doing the breakfast club. I'm meeting Mirell there. |
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| 00:49.21 | RobotGuy | I reinstalled Kubuntu because of a weird problem I could not fix. |
| 00:57.28 | RobotGuy | I'm going to add my bluetooth module (scoketed, of course) to my carrier board, but I think I need a narrower soldering iron tip and smaller gauge hookup wire. |
| 01:00.27 | RobotGuy | I have several small spools of 22 guage stranded, but may have to go to #24 guage. |
| 01:14.42 | Mirell | Mmm. |
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| 04:10.24 | ds2 | 9 |
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| 04:22.30 | Mirell | ? |
| 04:32.36 | landley | The score at halftime: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5. |
| 04:32.54 | Mirell | ...ow. |
| 04:34.53 | cajaka | I am going to have to use that one later |
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| 04:40.07 | landley | cajaka: You should read the Nancy Lebowitz button catalogue. |
| 04:40.37 | landley | nancybuttons.com |
| 04:40.50 | landley | I first got that catalog in _1983_. Back when it was on paper. |
| 04:40.54 | landley | Uphill! Both ways! |
| 04:41.28 | Mirell | landley: Neither came out until the 90s, so... |
| 04:43.24 | landley | I didn't say it was the _only_ issue I got. |
| 04:43.36 | landley | She used to do a new one every few months. Now it's all online. |
| 04:43.46 | landley | The issues had names. |
| 04:43.52 | landley | The little caligraphic button catalogue on the prarie. |
| 04:44.00 | landley | The caligraphic button catalogue through time and space. |
| 04:44.10 | landley | The insidious caligraphic button catalogue of dr. fu mancu. |
| 04:44.23 | landley | Don't crush that dwarf, had me the caligraphic button catalogue... |
| 04:44.37 | landley | The names stopped when it went online. :( |
| 04:45.11 | Mirell | Alas. |
| 04:46.22 | cajaka | That sucks |
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| 05:00.39 | rom10 | anybody expert in JTAG wiggler |
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| 20:58.05 | joe_bleau | Need a good cheap microcontroller |
| 20:58.18 | joe_bleau | Must be PDIP, have some sort of serial bootloader |
| 20:58.28 | prpplague | joe_bleau: how good and how cheap |
| 20:58.29 | joe_bleau | 20 pins or more, UART would be nice. |
| 20:58.48 | joe_bleau | Nice to have: single 5V supply, high current output for LEDs, free C compiler |
| 20:59.09 | joe_bleau | Don't need much memory. Less than 1k sram, maybe 4k flash. |
| 20:59.14 | joe_bleau | More is better, obviously. |
| 20:59.22 | prpplague | joe_bleau: atmega48 might do well for ya |
| 20:59.25 | joe_bleau | I'd like to keep the price (in single quantity) below $5. |
| 20:59.49 | joe_bleau | Can be 8 bit, 16, or 32. |
| 21:00.09 | joe_bleau | It's gonna read a GPS (NMEA) and drive a display. Minimal parsing and math. |
| 21:00.47 | SpeedEvil | joe_bleau: for 'luxury' - look at the cortex series |
| 21:00.55 | SpeedEvil | 32 bit and quite a lot of ROM/RAM |
| 21:00.59 | joe_bleau | See my PDIP note? |
| 21:01.03 | SpeedEvil | for well under $5 for the little ones |
| 21:01.05 | SpeedEvil | Oh - no |
| 21:01.18 | prpplague | joe_bleau: atmega48 would do it, but you may want to go to a atmega32 for the extra gpio |
| 21:01.30 | prpplague | joe_bleau: just depends on your need for expansions |
| 21:01.42 | SpeedEvil | well - pretty much any pic or something. |
| 21:02.03 | joe_bleau | Haven't kept up with the PICs...do they support serial bootload these days? |
| 21:02.04 | prpplague | http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?family_id=607&family_name=AVR%AE+8%2DBit+RISC+&part_id=3301 |
| 21:03.04 | joe_bleau | I want the users to be able to update firmware without buying or building parallel port dongles or JTAG wigglers. |
| 21:03.27 | SpeedEvil | joe_bleau: what's it for? |
| 21:03.53 | joe_bleau | Can't really say. Parsing GPS data and driving a display--detailed enough? |
| 21:04.03 | joe_bleau | A lot of it is still up in the air at this point. |
| 21:04.16 | SpeedEvil | just wondering |
| 21:05.15 | prpplague | joe_bleau: the atmega series supports ISP programming, with just a few cents worth of parts you can add that in pretty easy |
| 21:05.28 | joe_bleau | serial port connection? |
| 21:06.13 | joe_bleau | I don't see atmega48 on the avr gcc supported list. Oversight? |
| 21:06.31 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea an over sight, it supported |
| 21:06.42 | joe_bleau | Spiffy. |
| 21:06.45 | prpplague | joe_bleau: what did you have in mind for doing the upgrade? |
| 21:06.55 | prpplague | joe_bleau: custom app on windows to do the upgrade? |
| 21:07.00 | joe_bleau | Plug into a 232 port |
| 21:07.09 | joe_bleau | Hopefully there's something already out there. |
| 21:07.26 | joe_bleau | the LPC2xxx series has an open source serial loader. |
| 21:07.35 | prpplague | joe_bleau: right i figured the rs-2323 part, but what did you expect to happen on the host side as far as software |
| 21:07.51 | prpplague | joe_bleau: are you expecting them to use hyperterm or what? |
| 21:08.10 | joe_bleau | No, it can be a dev tool. The end-users will be technically literate. |
| 21:08.32 | joe_bleau | Even to the point of developing custom firmware on their own. |
| 21:08.44 | prpplague | joe_bleau: ahh ok, then i'd implement a small serial isp programmer in the device and then just use the standard avr tools |
| 21:09.19 | joe_bleau | Sounds good. Is the required ISP circuitry cheap? I've got a hard budget limit. |
| 21:09.24 | RobotGuy | PIC 18F2550 - 28 pin, USB (can bootload via USB). |
| 21:09.58 | prpplague | joe_bleau: yea very |
| 21:10.09 | joe_bleau | Is the ram flat on the atmegas, or is it paged up into pieces? |
| 21:11.45 | prpplague | flat |
| 21:12.03 | joe_bleau | hey, this might be it. |
| 21:12.58 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: Check out the 18F2550 PIC also. |
| 21:13.11 | joe_bleau | usb isn't as handy. |
| 21:13.30 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: How so? |
| 21:13.44 | joe_bleau | uh, drivers |
| 21:14.10 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: How do drivers make it not handy? |
| 21:15.16 | prpplague | joe_bleau: http://www.lancos.com/e2p/siprog_base.png |
| 21:17.02 | prpplague | joe_bleau: need a keyboard on this? |
| 21:17.10 | joe_bleau | nope. |
| 21:17.17 | prpplague | joe_bleau: what size display? |
| 21:17.29 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: How do drivers make USB not handy? |
| 21:17.32 | joe_bleau | probably 7 segments. |
| 21:17.58 | joe_bleau | can't plug and play without digging for drive5s |
| 21:18.11 | joe_bleau | annoying |
| 21:18.31 | prpplague | joe_bleau: 7 segment displays? thats gonna be power hundry |
| 21:18.42 | prpplague | joe_bleau: why not use a smal 2x12 lcd? |
| 21:18.48 | joe_bleau | power is not a problem |
| 21:18.51 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: Everything is going USB, so you are going to have to deal with it sooner or later. |
| 21:19.07 | prpplague | joe_bleau: ok well 7 segment displays are expensive compared to lcd |
| 21:19.11 | joe_bleau | kinda like rohs--I pick later |
| 21:19.18 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:19.23 | joe_bleau | needs to be really visible. |
| 21:19.36 | prpplague | joe_bleau / RobotGuy worst case laster just add a usb->rs-232 adapter |
| 21:19.45 | joe_bleau | $$$ |
| 21:20.10 | prpplague | joe_bleau: naw, you can get a really visiable one for around $4.00 |
| 21:20.19 | RobotGuy | I got a Parallax USB-serial adapter for about $15.95 - never used it yet. |
| 21:20.20 | prpplague | joe_bleau: how many chars? |
| 21:20.26 | joe_bleau | that's high on this project |
| 21:20.38 | joe_bleau | not sure yet...maybe as few as 8 |
| 21:20.52 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:21.12 | joe_bleau | weird requirements, to be sure. |
| 21:21.31 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: Sign up to get a FREE Renesas H8SX/1664 starter kit - they come with small LCDs, look to be 2x8 or maybe 2x16. |
| 21:21.54 | prpplague | joe_bleau: http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/index-std.html |
| 21:22.01 | joe_bleau | I like the H8, I really do. |
| 21:22.03 | prpplague | joe_bleau: might have a look at a few of those 2x8 |
| 21:22.13 | joe_bleau | But I can't do this project with a starter kit. |
| 21:22.18 | prpplague | joe_bleau: indeed |
| 21:22.19 | RobotGuy | In fact, I think ALL the new Renesas starter kits come with displays - all the new ones I have do have them. |
| 21:22.38 | joe_bleau | I was considering one of the Olimex header boards, but no room in the budget. |
| 21:22.39 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: I'm not saying to do the project with a starter kit - get the kit for the display. |
| 21:23.10 | joe_bleau | I don't think an LCD will be acceptable. |
| 21:23.53 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: What is the project you are you trying to do? There is a LOT of FREE stuff if you know where to look and who to ask. I know a bit about that. |
| 21:24.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: joe_bleau works on classified projects |
| 21:24.30 | joe_bleau | It's not a one-off, or I'd just raid my junkbox. |
| 21:24.36 | RobotGuy | I have FOUR FREE Renesas starter kits - 2 are H8/36077 and 2 are H8SX/1664. |
| 21:24.51 | joe_bleau | Nah, just not something that I should be giving out too much detail on. |
| 21:25.14 | joe_bleau | The people I work with are not the most open group. |
| 21:25.22 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: Can't get much help without giving at least some details. |
| 21:25.31 | prpplague | hehe isn't that the definition of classified? hehe |
| 21:25.33 | joe_bleau | much help?! |
| 21:25.40 | prpplague | joe_bleau: hehe |
| 21:25.43 | joe_bleau | Y'all have pretty much picked out my CPU for me. |
| 21:25.54 | joe_bleau | What more can I ask for? A freakin' schematic? ;-) |
| 21:26.00 | prpplague | joe_bleau: hehe |
| 21:26.03 | joe_bleau | I'm liking the one-off digikey pricing. |
| 21:26.13 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: That would require giving more details. :P |
| 21:26.13 | joe_bleau | Most of the rest is already done in my head. |
| 21:26.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What guage wire do you use for prototyping on the carrier board? |
| 21:26.58 | prpplague | you mean like this - http://www.scienceprog.com/control-7-segment-led-displays-with-avr/ |
| 21:27.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 30 gauge wirewrap wire |
| 21:27.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oooooooh, then I need to get new wire. I have 24 guage stranded. |
| 21:27.54 | prpplague | yikes |
| 21:27.57 | joe_bleau | Yeah, or shift registers and no multiplexing. |
| 21:28.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats really hard to work with |
| 21:28.09 | joe_bleau | I don't like stranded for this kind of work. |
| 21:28.19 | prpplague | joe_bleau: i still think you'd be better with a 8x2 lcd with high contrast color |
| 21:28.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No biggie, I haven't opened any of the wire so I can exchange it for 30 gauge. |
| 21:28.57 | RobotGuy | I just hope my source has 30 guague wire. |
| 21:29.00 | joe_bleau | Character size on LCD not so good. |
| 21:29.09 | joe_bleau | LCD has the price advantage, though. |
| 21:29.32 | RobotGuy | s/guage/gauge/ |
| 21:29.37 | prpplague | joe_bleau: ahh need bigger character size |
| 21:29.58 | joe_bleau | Not sure about need, want maybe? LCD hasn't been ruled out, however. |
| 21:30.03 | prpplague | joe_bleau: what kind of data format are you looking at? |
| 21:30.38 | prpplague | joe_bleau: latitude longitute measurements? |
| 21:32.05 | prpplague | joe_bleau: http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/1601l/index.html#CFAH1601LTMIET |
| 21:32.51 | prpplague | joe_bleau: oh this one is nice - http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/1602w/index.html#CFAH1602WRTIJP |
| 21:33.32 | joe_bleau | I sampled a neg mode once--didn't like it so much in real life. |
| 21:33.39 | joe_bleau | Degraded badly once you got off-axis. |
| 21:33.43 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:33.52 | joe_bleau | I snuck it through the production flow, as it looked just like our standard product. |
| 21:34.03 | joe_bleau | The final qc flipped out when they powered it on! |
| 21:34.23 | prpplague | joe_bleau: hehe |
| 21:34.37 | joe_bleau | Not exactly ISO9k, huh. |
| 21:37.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What size soldering iron tip do you use? I have a Weller WES51 soldering station. |
| 21:37.56 | RobotGuy | I wish I had gotten the digital version now. |
| 21:39.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm going to add my bluetooth module to the carrier board console port. |
| 21:41.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i normally use a 1/64 tip |
| 21:42.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i don't believe you can get a 1/64 for the WES51 |
| 21:42.46 | prpplague | i think the smallest you can get is a 1/32 |
| 21:43.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea the only thing you'll need to do for the bt module is set it to nonverbose mode |
| 21:46.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have a 0.4mm tip on order. |
| 21:47.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That should be close enough to 1/64. |
| 21:48.21 | RobotGuy | My bluetooth module also has SPI and USB. |
| 21:50.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what module is that? |
| 21:51.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8461 |
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| 21:53.04 | RobotGuy^2 | Whoops |
| 21:55.03 | RobotGuy^2 | prpplague: What would it take to connect my BT module direct to the USB of the carrier board? |
| 21:56.44 | RobotGuy^2 | prpplague: Could I just connect power, ground, and D+/D- direct to the Hammer? |
| 22:04.47 | RobotGuy^2 | Bye for now. |
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| 23:47.32 | RobotGuy | I worked on my BRAT for a bit and discovered the new version of the IDE is trashed - doesn't even seem to execute my code. |
