| 00:19.17 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
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| 00:29.58 | Mirell | Mmm... |
| 00:30.20 | Mirell | Whereas I mostly didn't do anything today, but got better at SQL. |
| 00:32.35 | roxfan | flyback: you could try with unbuffered cable |
| 00:34.56 | flyback- | no |
| 00:35.02 | flyback- | not for the devices I am going to use this one |
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| 00:40.48 | Mirell | o.O |
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| 02:10.34 | prpplague | flyback: why are there two of you? |
| 02:10.47 | prpplague | flyback: one is more than enought :P |
| 02:27.51 | prpplague | ~seen landley |
| 02:27.53 | purl | landley <n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 4h 47m 36s ago, saying: 'Was the hub lying?'. |
| 02:38.56 | Mirell | Mmm |
| 02:39.18 | Mirell | I keep telling Rob he should just get the Sprint 3G network card |
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| 03:00.15 | flyback- | prpplague: |
| 03:00.21 | flyback- | one is another box |
| 03:00.33 | flyback- | prpp |
| 03:00.41 | flyback- | for the 74hc244 |
| 03:00.50 | flyback- | what other families would work for the jtag |
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| 03:14.29 | prpplague | Mirell: as much as he is online, he might as well |
| 03:14.40 | prpplague | flyback: 245 of course |
| 03:18.57 | flyback- | yeah but what families |
| 03:19.08 | flyback- | ls? f? |
| 03:20.46 | flyback- | prpplague: once I have a fixed box bnc system I will be more than overjoyed to get rid of multiple clients |
| 03:20.48 | flyback- | forever |
| 03:20.58 | flyback- | I thought about using the webpal for that but it's dust now |
| 03:20.59 | flyback- | :/ |
| 03:21.38 | prpplague | 74ahc |
| 03:21.40 | prpplague | 74hc |
| 03:21.49 | flyback- | ok so cmos or bust |
| 03:21.51 | flyback- | dammit |
| 03:22.11 | flyback- | all the boards that had any of that were lost in the flood |
| 03:23.07 | prpplague | doh - http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4066#more-4066 |
| 03:23.21 | flyback- | yeah saw that |
| 03:23.36 | flyback- | I agree with everything that dude is ranting on about bush |
| 03:23.45 | flyback- | but diebold needs to be wiped off the face of the planet |
| 03:23.54 | flyback- | at least their voting machine division |
| 03:24.17 | flyback- | if you are going to take responsibility of one of the most impotant instutitions of this country |
| 03:24.25 | flyback- | get it rid, take criticism or F*** OFF |
| 03:24.37 | flyback- | rid/right |
| 03:24.41 | flyback- | no |
| 03:24.50 | flyback- | I mean I don't agree with what he said abotu bush |
| 03:24.54 | flyback- | it's been a hard week |
| 03:25.25 | flyback- | trying to figure out how to have multiple local ip subnets on the same lan and still be able to access windows shares etc is a freaking nightmare |
| 03:27.18 | flyback- | basically us retards bought a 10 blade center with no local install paths and they are headless, I need to setup a pxe server to load them but make it impossible for any other machines on the lan to boot from it |
| 03:29.58 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 03:30.12 | prpplague | permanent base on the moon estimated at $105bn |
| 03:30.52 | flyback- | yeah but if the moon shows to have some good resources to mine some of that might come back |
| 03:30.59 | flyback- | going to be decades away thoguh |
| 03:31.08 | prpplague | http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1007/102407cdpm2.htm |
| 03:31.14 | flyback- | still don't have bulletproof enviornmental systems |
| 03:31.17 | prpplague | not the point |
| 03:31.20 | prpplague | that is |
| 03:31.33 | flyback- | ah |
| 03:33.51 | prpplague | http://trus.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pTRU1-2910277dt.jpg |
| 03:33.56 | prpplague | $17.00 |
| 03:34.02 | prpplague | plus a hammer board |
| 03:34.08 | prpplague | nice.......... |
| 03:35.48 | prpplague | http://trus.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pTRU1-2904941dt.jpg |
| 03:36.01 | prpplague | i kinda like this one at $30 |
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| 05:33.31 | Mirell | Mmm |
| 05:35.25 | cajaka | ? |
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| 07:28.08 | landley | Yay, I got sh4 building in firmware linux. |
| 07:32.34 | flyback- | good job :) |
| 07:32.38 | flyback- | any word on that router |
| 07:33.26 | landley | Which router? |
| 07:33.53 | flyback- | the one I said about the soc and the gpl |
| 07:36.25 | landley | Did you email the sflc guys? |
| 07:36.47 | landley | (I only hear about it once they've confirmed the violation and failed to settle it out of court.) |
| 07:36.48 | flyback- | oh I thought you did |
| 07:36.56 | landley | Nah, it goes directly to the sflc guys. |
| 07:37.39 | landley | Erik and I had to work to get out of the loop. There are dozens of companies a year that get pinged about license stuff. Most of it they just put it up on a website and it's over in a couple days... |
| 07:38.06 | landley | Plus there's the taking apart the firmware images or logging into the router or whatever to confirm there _is_ busybox in it... |
| 07:38.15 | landley | Muchly work. Happy to have other people do it. :) |
| 07:38.23 | landley | (Erik used to do that and it sucked up huge amounts of his time...) |
| 07:45.23 | landley | flyback: What's wf, anyway? (And why would one hurt?) |
| 07:57.15 | SpeedEvil | Though annoyingly seemingly only 8M of RAM and 2M of ROM |
| 08:03.58 | flyback- | I mean't wtf |
| 08:04.12 | flyback- | and it's internal roids and foot pain (plantar fascitus) |
| 08:04.43 | flyback- | landley: no big deal it be nice to be able to use these since they are so cheap $10 |
| 08:04.54 | flyback- | but don't make more work for you and erik |
| 08:07.36 | landley | If you can get it to work for you, no reason not to use it. |
| 08:07.44 | landley | It doesn't make work for us, it makes work for the sflc. |
| 08:08.10 | landley | They're still looking for somebody dumb enough to stand up against them and lose an actual case to give a legal precedent on gpl enforceability. |
| 08:08.17 | landley | Nobody's been dumb enough to take the hit yet. |
| 08:08.56 | flyback- | well I like the hard work you guys did with busybox etc |
| 08:09.09 | flyback- | it's well appreciated even if you didnt' make any $$$ off it directely |
| 08:09.16 | flyback- | although I am sure it made you guys $$$$ anyways |
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| 08:28.07 | SpeedEvil | Is there a list of all the GPL compliant users of busybox by model2A? |
| 08:36.05 | landley | SpeedEvil: there should be. |
| 08:36.18 | landley | I keep poking the sflc for a list of companies they've confirmed are distributing compliantly... |
| 08:36.30 | landley | By "keep" I mean "I remember every couple of months"... |
| 08:36.38 | landley | Tired. |
| 08:38.29 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 08:41.56 | landley | g'night. |
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| 14:08.05 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
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| 14:23.41 | dbtid | prpplague: do you have a few minutes to discuss a busybox question? |
| 14:23.58 | prpplague | dbtid: not really, but go ahead and ask |
| 14:24.21 | dbtid | it's simple: how do i make the symlinks for the busbybox features i configured? |
| 14:24.33 | dbtid | manually? or is there a script that reads the config? |
| 14:27.30 | prpplague | dbtid: when you do a make install, it will generate the symlinks for you |
| 14:27.54 | prpplague | dbtid: if you are using buildroot, as part of the rootfs generation, the make install gets run to populate the links |
| 14:28.50 | dbtid | i'm not using buildroot |
| 14:28.56 | dbtid | built it from the sources myself |
| 14:29.06 | prpplague | dbtid: then just use the make install |
| 14:29.11 | dbtid | i will look into make install; since it's for an embedded system, |
| 14:29.17 | dbtid | where is it going to put the links? |
| 14:29.24 | dbtid | in the local directory tree somehow? |
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| 14:35.10 | dbtid | well, n/m i did it anyway and i saw the results |
| 14:35.13 | dbtid | brilliant! |
| 14:35.16 | dbtid | thanks prpplague |
| 14:35.21 | prpplague | np |
| 14:36.20 | GPSFan | prpplague: mornin... how goes the nail checkout? |
| 14:39.11 | prpplague | GPSFan: progressing |
| 14:39.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: only minor problems |
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| 14:39.57 | GPSFan | prpplague: good, will it need a new board rev, or can this one be "white wired"? |
| 14:40.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: this one can be white wired, but we'll need another rev, which we expected |
| 14:40.54 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah, so you can send out beta units without waiting for a new rev. |
| 14:40.57 | *** join/#edev sjdsphreaker (n=sjdsphre@72.51.107.130) |
| 14:41.00 | sjdsphreaker | irc://irc.amtris.net/liquid-moviez |
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| 14:41.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: indeed |
| 14:42.43 | prpplague | jeeze, spammer |
| 14:45.13 | GPSFan | prpplague: spammer or spambot, at least it went away without tooo much spam. |
| 14:45.21 | prpplague | indeed |
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| 14:50.18 | prpplague | hapchap: what time are the guests suppose to arrive |
| 14:53.35 | hapchap | prpplague: i dont know |
| 14:53.46 | hapchap | prpplague: but doesnt production look cute in their new lab coats |
| 14:53.53 | prpplague | indeed |
| 14:54.11 | GPSFan | prpplague: got a dog & pony show today? |
| 14:54.14 | hapchap | prpplague: they look way too new... they arent fooling anyone |
| 14:54.30 | hapchap | prpplague: still have creases in them |
| 14:54.36 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea |
| 14:56.49 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:57.03 | prpplague | GPSFan: you don't even know what i look like, hehe |
| 14:57.25 | GPSFan | prpplague: you posted a picture once. |
| 14:57.45 | prpplague | GPSFan: oh |
| 14:57.47 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:57.49 | GPSFan | back when you were at abcs |
| 14:58.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: oh, hehe |
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| 17:35.05 | dbtid | what's the conventional wisdom for file systems on embedded systems these days? |
| 17:35.12 | dbtid | i've got the at91rm9200 |
| 17:35.19 | dbtid | i don't want to repeat the same mistakes we had before |
| 17:35.21 | SpeedEvil | depends. |
| 17:35.26 | SpeedEvil | there is embedded and embedded |
| 17:35.34 | dbtid | well, this is a radio receiver |
| 17:35.45 | dbtid | i've got the kernel which i will rarely update |
| 17:35.50 | SpeedEvil | jffs2 if you want to read/write works |
| 17:35.50 | dbtid | i've got programs i will sometimes update |
| 17:35.59 | dbtid | i've got config/runtime data i will read/write |
| 17:36.13 | dbtid | jffs2 seems so buggy, at least under 2.6.20 for the 9200 |
| 17:36.34 | SpeedEvil | what's your storage medion? |
| 17:37.25 | dbtid | NAND flash |
| 17:37.34 | dbtid | 16MB |
| 17:38.48 | SpeedEvil | So you do need some sort of wear leveling. |
| 17:39.01 | SpeedEvil | I'm not completely sure that there is anything other than jffs2. |
| 17:39.08 | SpeedEvil | What problems are you having? |
| 17:40.00 | dbtid | well, for the kernel, i'm just going to treat the NAND partition as a raw block |
| 17:40.22 | dbtid | for the program/application store, i was going to mount an ext2 file system that contained my applications, if that made sense |
| 17:40.32 | SpeedEvil | dbtid: you do know that some devices have a specified number of bad blocks? |
| 17:40.39 | dbtid | and for the config stuff, i was planning on a small JFFS2 |
| 17:40.49 | dbtid | SpeedEvil: this nand part does yes |
| 17:40.52 | SpeedEvil | dbtid: their capacity is excluding these blocks? |
| 17:41.01 | dbtid | let me think |
| 17:41.16 | dbtid | i don't recall right now |
| 17:41.27 | dbtid | one issue with the jffs2 stuff is the terribly long boot time w/ u-boot |
| 17:41.43 | dbtid | when i went to a raw image, i dropped 2:30 off a 3:30 boot time |
| 17:41.48 | dbtid | it was really pissing off the customers |
| 17:42.58 | SpeedEvil | If you're not handling errors in the raw device which are specified to be there, you may have big problems |
| 17:44.47 | dbtid | i think u-boot might be checking for that |
| 17:44.52 | dbtid | i don't recall off the top of my head |
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| 17:45.12 | dbtid | i don't recall if the nand stuff does anything with "bad blocks" outside of jffs2 |
| 17:45.15 | dbtid | i think it might |
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| 18:47.36 | flyback | yeah bro |
| 18:47.46 | flyback | you don't want to just slap a filesystem on top of raw nand |
| 18:47.54 | flyback | you are goin gto get megaCANUCKED |
| 18:48.14 | flyback | use jffs or another flash filesystem for flash devices without a controller |
| 18:48.52 | flyback | nand and nor do NOTHING with bad blocks |
| 18:49.08 | dbtid | well, these chips come premarked with the bad blocks |
| 18:49.14 | dbtid | i think u-boot may be handled someting |
| 18:49.17 | dbtid | but i bet linux wouldn't |
| 18:49.23 | flyback | well that but flash sectors go with use |
| 18:49.25 | dbtid | i can't take the 3:30 that the jffs2 takes to boot |
| 18:49.29 | flyback | also you need to do wear leveling |
| 18:49.38 | dbtid | not for as infrequent as these will be updated |
| 18:49.43 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.45 | dbtid | we're talking 2-3 times in the life of the product |
| 18:49.46 | flyback | else stuff that always writes to the beginning of the drive will kill those sectors fast |
| 18:49.55 | dbtid | they're 10000 cycle writes |
| 18:49.58 | SpeedEvil | my neo takes nowhere near 3 min to boot |
| 18:50.10 | dbtid | i'll write to them for production units less than 10 times in their lifetime |
| 18:50.25 | flyback | SpeedEvil: hey we tried |
| 18:50.27 | dbtid | it's a known u-boot issue |
| 18:50.31 | dbtid | bah |
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| 18:50.48 | SpeedEvil | my neo takes nowhere near 3 min to boot a GUI from nand |
| 18:50.48 | flyback | stupid canuck |
| 18:51.09 | flyback | "waa safety is slow so we need to fuck our customers for performance" |
| 18:51.38 | flyback | why would a flash filesystem be slower to boot anywyas |
| 18:51.44 | flyback | IT'S THE SAME READS WTF |
| 19:26.32 | ds2 | is there a quick guide to blob somewhere? |
| 19:37.33 | ds2 | n/m think i got enough to do what i want |
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| 20:17.31 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 20:17.43 | prpplague | landley: nail board is looking real good |
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| 20:19.18 | Mirell | Man, I'm tired. |
| 20:19.36 | landley | prpplague: cool. |
| 20:19.47 | landley | Trying to find a kernel it'll boot. |
| 20:20.15 | landley | I made what seems to be a working sh4 little endian toolchain (gcc, binutils, uClibc, kernel headers) and built a root filesystem with it. |
| 20:20.24 | landley | But the kernel .config? Not a clue... |
| 20:23.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:24.03 | prpplague | landley: ok so, its basically complete |
| 20:24.13 | prpplague | landley: plug it in and its up and running |
| 20:31.41 | landley | Coolness. |
| 20:31.54 | landley | So what's the opinion of the thing around the office? |
| 20:31.59 | landley | (Are _you_ guys likely to find it useful?) |
| 20:36.55 | prpplague | landley: yea, i suspect we will use it for a variety of testing |
| 20:37.30 | prpplague | landley: i'm tweaking the default kernel and rootfs now to do some last minute tests |
| 20:37.39 | prpplague | landley: probably ship yours on monday |
| 20:42.36 | prpplague | landley: one dead roach chip for the reset circuit |
| 20:42.44 | prpplague | landley: other than that no problems |
| 20:42.56 | prpplague | landley: i'll take some photo's shortly |
| 20:43.31 | prpplague | landley: any info you want me to post right now? |
| 20:45.23 | prpplague | landley: http://pastebin.ca/895441 |
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| 20:46.13 | landley | roach chip? |
| 20:47.28 | prpplague | landley: dead roach, hehe slang for a method of mounting a chip upside down,i.e. legs pointing up |
| 20:47.38 | landley | So does reset work? |
| 20:47.53 | landley | I'll probably bug you with questions as soon as I get back to banging on the documentation. |
| 20:47.58 | landley | Haven't touched it in a couple weeks... |
| 20:48.14 | prpplague | landley: yea, this is a different reset signal than the one you are thinking of |
| 20:48.19 | prpplague | landley: yea no problem |
| 20:49.35 | landley | Cool. |
| 20:49.40 | landley | Looking forward to it. |
| 20:49.46 | landley | Let me know when photos of actual hardware go up. :) |
| 20:50.27 | prpplague | landley: should be up in an hour or so |
| 20:52.20 | landley | ok. |
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| 22:05.42 | flyback | I went to another radio shack in the area hoping to get a 74xx244 cmos buffer chip, but they don't carry them anymore :/ however they did have more of those futuredial cell phone usb data cables that are generic +5/+3.3 serial to usb converter pl2303 chips inside and they were $5 each :) |
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| 22:32.21 | ds2 | uncertainty sucks. it is good to be certain |
| 22:32.23 | ds2 | ;) |
| 22:40.30 | flyback | man I got a ton of 74HCT373 but no 244 or 245 :/ |
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| 23:20.22 | ds2 | just by the jtag from tincantools... less frustration |
| 23:21.04 | flyback | ds2 no I need to prove to myself I can do this |
| 23:21.12 | flyback | to defeat the ocd and anxiety once and for all |
| 23:24.05 | RobotGuy | It just works and that's all there is to it. :) |
| 23:25.58 | flyback | oh I will probably buy jtag units for future needs |
| 23:26.03 | flyback | but for this one I need to do this myself |
| 23:26.04 | ds2 | HE HE HE |
| 23:26.16 | flyback | I wish I could explain better |
| 23:26.21 | ds2 | I think I have a suitable 244 and I am thinking of buying the JTAG |
| 23:26.35 | ds2 | soldering D connectors for the parallel port is no fun |
| 23:30.32 | flyback | why it's only like a few wires |
| 23:30.39 | flyback | geeze I build a parallel port resistor dac yrs ago |
| 23:31.49 | RobotGuy | I am doing my first test of Hammer with my robot today. :) |
| 23:32.35 | flyback | nice |
| 23:37.46 | ds2 | cuz after I am done, I can only use it on certain machines |
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| 23:48.26 | flyback | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fuhjyyu |
