| 00:00.42 | RobotGuy | It can't be worse than doing a Linux from Scratch build. |
| 00:07.17 | SpeedEvil | Just get gcc built, and start building natively. |
| 00:28.42 | RobotGuy | I have gcc built and am going to build a native toolchain for just that reason. |
| 00:34.57 | cajaka | Lind of random but do any of you know of an general electronics channel on this server that has active ops? |
| 00:38.11 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-174-225.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:39.20 | RobotGuy | Why are ops important? |
| 00:40.09 | Mirell | RobotGuy: For the flybacks of the world. |
| 00:40.20 | cajaka | I didn't say it |
| 00:40.22 | RobotGuy | Mirell: Well, OK, there is that. |
| 00:40.52 | RobotGuy | I put chanserv on both my channels. |
| 00:44.00 | cajaka | Good move :) |
| 00:46.16 | RobotGuy | It was a nobrainer. |
| 00:46.51 | RobotGuy | Apparently some who have channels have no brains though. |
| 00:47.33 | RobotGuy | I looked to make sure ChanServ was here before I said that.. :D:D |
| 00:48.26 | RobotGuy | cajaka: Have you seen the latest photo shoot for W.A.L.T.E.R.? |
| 00:52.08 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.134.30) |
| 00:52.15 | cajaka | This the pics under the 2.0 section |
| 00:52.20 | RobotGuy | Yes |
| 00:53.04 | RobotGuy | The pictures are not great quality, but they show a fair amount. |
| 00:53.50 | cajaka | yeah |
| 00:54.43 | RobotGuy | I am pretty proud of the way the new decks came out, especially since I designed them and they had just one error. |
| 01:22.43 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 01:25.41 | cajaka | ? |
| 01:27.41 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-72-177-114-214.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 01:27.41 | *** mode/#edev [+o landley] by ChanServ |
| 01:28.30 | landley | I have the flu. :P |
| 01:30.50 | prpplague | landley oh shite |
| 01:30.57 | prpplague | landley with all you have to do this week |
| 01:31.30 | prpplague | landley greetings btw |
| 01:31.42 | prpplague | landley so you are gonna love this one |
| 01:31.54 | landley | I'm bringing the nail board with me to houston, and should get some time to work on it in the evenings. I think. |
| 01:32.03 | prpplague | landley no worries |
| 01:32.10 | prpplague | landley get this |
| 01:32.38 | prpplague | landley so 8 months ago when we were designing the M7220, i told them we need to have a generic internal expansion port |
| 01:32.55 | landley | What's an m7220? |
| 01:32.57 | prpplague | landley but the #@$%@#$%@#$ EE disagreed |
| 01:33.08 | prpplague | landley one of our industrial handhelds |
| 01:33.09 | landley | The one you've been havinng problems with all along? |
| 01:33.24 | prpplague | landley naw, thats the new one M8000 |
| 01:33.48 | prpplague | landley so now, today, the boss says i have to figure out to retro fit the M7220 with GPRS |
| 01:34.03 | prpplague | landley would have been a snap if we'd done the expansion port |
| 01:34.11 | prpplague | landley now its gonna be hell |
| 01:34.19 | landley | Did you keep a paper trail? |
| 01:34.49 | prpplague | landley oh yea |
| 01:35.02 | landley | yay paper trail. |
| 01:35.17 | prpplague | landley gonna stick it to them at the end of the week |
| 01:35.23 | landley | Wondering if going to chick-fil-a would be a good thing... |
| 01:35.46 | prpplague | landley hand them the docs and the working prototype alot with the cost of retro fitting verses doing it from the start |
| 01:35.56 | prpplague | landley uh probably not |
| 01:36.14 | prpplague | landley chick-fil-a + flu ====== bad thing (tm) |
| 01:37.03 | landley | yeah, but today I had a 1 inch cookie, 1 slice of apple, and 1 glass of "carnation instant breakfast drink food product substance stuff". |
| 01:47.22 | prpplague | landley uh might explain you nausea |
| 01:51.07 | prpplague | landley does fade cook? she sounds pretty darn independent |
| 01:52.16 | prpplague | landley how about a bluetooth module for the nail? |
| 01:54.06 | prpplague | anyone besides me notice a major change in the discovery channel lately? |
| 01:55.33 | prpplague | landley hehe |
| 01:55.34 | landley | No opinion on a bluetooth module. |
| 01:55.41 | landley | I've heard cool things about bluetooth, but really never used it. |
| 01:55.54 | prpplague | landley you appear to be ALMOST as big a dr.who fan as i am |
| 01:55.54 | landley | Yeah, you can hook up keyboards and mice and headphones, which might be nice. |
| 01:56.10 | landley | Can't do a display via bluetooth, though. Unless maybe you use vnc or x11 ssh forwarding... |
| 01:56.30 | landley | The first episode I saw was "castrovalva" |
| 01:56.44 | prpplague | interesting, i've never thought about bluetooth as a media for display |
| 01:56.54 | landley | And at the end of that season, my pbs station started rerunning episodes from "Spearhead from Space", and went through the lot. |
| 01:57.09 | prpplague | landley coool |
| 01:57.19 | landley | prpplague: Mirell and myself (or was it Eric Raymond and myself?) were pondering how to auto-associate an iphone with an imac. |
| 01:57.39 | landley | When you drop it in the cradle, you should be able to get a window pop up on your imac with the iPhone desktop, automatically. |
| 01:57.41 | prpplague | landley one of my first really giant projects was a uhf amp so i could watch dr.who on pbs back in 1981 |
| 01:57.52 | landley | Association via bluetooth seemed the obvious way, although you need a USB plug or some such to charge it. |
| 01:58.36 | prpplague | landley thats almost identical to what we are releasing for our handhelds next month |
| 01:58.37 | landley | I honestly do think that Apple is trying to do to the PC what the PC did to the minicomputer. |
| 01:58.52 | landley | Grab the next niche with a de-facto standard before anybody else is even really aware how ubiquitious it'll become. |
| 01:58.57 | landley | Everybody's got a cell phone... |
| 01:59.11 | landley | prpplague: publish so they can't #*%(&#(&% patent it. |
| 01:59.41 | prpplague | landley hmm, seriously? |
| 02:00.00 | landley | People patent breathing these days. |
| 02:00.05 | landley | Yay prior art. |
| 02:00.09 | landley | Release early, release often. |
| 02:00.30 | prpplague | hmm, guess i'll post some info |
| 02:00.33 | landley | You wait to keep your technology a secret, if it's at all obvious some idiot will file a patent on it six months later. |
| 02:00.56 | prpplague | i thought it was pretty obvious |
| 02:00.58 | landley | (Personally, I think if more than one person files a submarine patent on the same thing that's _proof_ of obviousness.) |
| 02:01.07 | prpplague | but i guess thats the problem with developers |
| 02:01.08 | landley | If the patent wasn't published yet but a second person tried to patent it, it's obvious. |
| 02:01.18 | landley | Microsoft patented XOR. |
| 02:02.06 | prpplague | landley basically when you drop the M5900 in the cradle it says "ok i'm in the cradle, scan to see if my home pc is near by, if it is connect then upload my collected data" |
| 02:02.26 | landley | I admit that http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-supreme-court-ruling-makes-obvious-patents-harder-to-defend.html is nice, but still... |
| 02:02.38 | landley | Yup, auto-sync. |
| 02:05.17 | prpplague | landley we use a atmel avr inside the cradle to lots of control |
| 02:05.34 | prpplague | landley like for instance you have to put the handheld in the matching cradle for it sync |
| 02:05.48 | prpplague | landley you can't put it in someone elses cradle |
| 02:06.12 | landley | why not? |
| 02:07.12 | prpplague | landley if you have twenty point of sales, i.e. at walmart , you want to make sure it connects to the clerks pc not the one next to it |
| 02:07.44 | landley | ok |
| 02:07.57 | landley | The cradle is charging it, right? |
| 02:08.08 | prpplague | landley yea, we also have a usb option |
| 02:08.18 | landley | At this point you have a bus between you and the cradle. (i20, dallas semiconductor 1 wire, I know there are a dozen and dunno the properties off each.) |
| 02:08.27 | landley | I always went on the assumption that "USB is ubiquitous, therefore cheap and reliable." |
| 02:09.13 | prpplague | landley hehe indeed |
| 02:09.22 | prpplague | landley POS and inventory are extremely weird markets |
| 02:09.49 | prpplague | landley for instance, lets say you are at costco or sams and have some giant bags of stuff |
| 02:10.10 | prpplague | landley the clerk can't always scan them on their flat bed barcode scanner |
| 02:10.14 | landley | And the chips they put in the employee's heads scan the RFID tags the put in the food, right? ;) |
| 02:10.37 | prpplague | landley the grab their handheld and walk around scan the stuff and the come back drop their handheld in the cradle and it syncs |
| 02:10.54 | landley | The ones I've seen ring up immediately, before you drop in the cradle. |
| 02:11.10 | landley | The last cradle they were dropped in tell them what register they should be bluetoothing stuff to. |
| 02:11.19 | prpplague | landley they can do both, the ones that ring up immediately are using bluetooth directly to the cradle |
| 02:11.42 | landley | And if one breaks, you can grab another one from the back room, drop it in the cradle, and it sets itself up automatically. |
| 02:12.10 | landley | At least until you pull out the duct tape... |
| 02:12.22 | prpplague | landley the other condition is the same handheld, the clerk is told to inventory a complete shelf, go scan every then come back drop it in the cradle, it then syncs the inventory count to the server |
| 02:12.38 | prpplague | landley exactly |
| 02:12.38 | landley | ok |
| 02:12.43 | *** part/#edev sorphin (n=dans@ppp-70-245-255-197.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) |
| 02:13.04 | landley | Why should it care which cradle you drop it in to talk to the server any more than it should care which ethernet port you plug it in to get a dhcp address? |
| 02:13.27 | landley | Some kind of security thing? |
| 02:13.34 | prpplague | landley it is more of security thing |
| 02:13.36 | prpplague | doh |
| 02:13.52 | landley | So the scanner doesn't keep track of who is using it? |
| 02:13.57 | prpplague | landley yea, each workstation has a cash draw as well as assigned duties |
| 02:14.06 | landley | You don't have to log in and have the cradle put the scanner into "non-bluetooth mode" before doing inventory with it? |
| 02:14.18 | prpplague | landley most accounting systems base the id on the workstation not the devices attached to it |
| 02:14.22 | landley | prpplague: yes, but what does that have to do with inventory? |
| 02:14.28 | landley | ok |
| 02:15.11 | prpplague | landley when you see workstations at walmart that aren't being used for POS, often they have a person assigned to do inventory that uses that workstation |
| 02:16.25 | prpplague | landley i.e. the manager assigns employee x to inventory shelf y, employee clocks in on workstation z, they go do the inventory, come back and drop it in the cradle for workstation x |
| 02:16.46 | prpplague | landley it records the time, the count and the user |
| 02:16.49 | landley | ok |
| 02:17.17 | landley | Seems an artificial limitation but I've learned not to argue with the UI somebody's used to. |
| 02:17.21 | landley | Qwerty is eternal. |
| 02:17.32 | prpplague | landley hehe yea its a very very weird business |
| 02:18.25 | prpplague | landley we loose tons of sells for people who are using a telnet session to access their as400, who want a xscale at 600mhz verses or arm9 at 200mhz |
| 02:18.40 | prpplague | like duh? |
| 02:19.15 | landley | Not even ssh? Telnet? |
| 02:19.23 | prpplague | nope, just telnet |
| 02:20.16 | prpplague | "i don;t want a speed problem accessing our system if we use a 200mhz, 600mhz is three times as fast" |
| 02:20.35 | prpplague | landley its sooooo crazy |
| 02:21.15 | prpplague | landley we lost a sale recently because they had it in their mind they needed windows ce |
| 02:21.49 | prpplague | landley you know what they needed? |
| 02:21.59 | prpplague | landley their entire system was html based |
| 02:22.07 | prpplague | landley could have run with lynx |
| 02:22.18 | prpplague | landley but they were told they needed ce |
| 02:22.23 | prpplague | landley so thats what they bought |
| 02:22.50 | prpplague | :( |
| 02:24.00 | cajaka | I think my brain just stopped |
| 02:24.08 | prpplague | cajaka oh? |
| 02:24.44 | landley | prpplague: darwin applies to companies too. |
| 02:24.50 | prpplague | hehehehe |
| 02:24.53 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 02:25.02 | cajaka | It took 4 mins just to come to the reaction using just elnet |
| 02:25.10 | prpplague | cajaka hehe |
| 02:25.31 | prpplague | sooo, i've been noticing some changes in discovery channel |
| 02:25.49 | prpplague | noticable their shows have gotten for a lack of better words, stupid |
| 02:26.02 | prpplague | i go and google a little and lo and behold |
| 02:26.28 | prpplague | i find that oprah's company Harpo has purchased dicovery channel |
| 02:26.32 | prpplague | three months ago |
| 02:26.39 | prpplague | :( |
| 02:26.46 | cajaka | Ah are they going the lines of TLC with more "people" shows rather then documentaries |
| 02:26.59 | cajaka | That answers my question |
| 02:27.07 | prpplague | cajaka yea, TLC is already owned by Harpo |
| 02:27.36 | cajaka | Keep this up and the army is going to be hunting me down for my project being late |
| 02:28.10 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:28.39 | prpplague | well it just goes as proof about the current society having a serious problem |
| 02:29.04 | prpplague | prime example scifi channels website is almost entirely IE only |
| 02:29.07 | cajaka | I have an odd life what I am working on could be discribed at a training aid for the US army. In reality its a multi function shooting booth |
| 02:30.10 | cajaka | Former military? |
| 02:30.16 | prpplague | cajaka yea, Army |
| 02:31.07 | prpplague | cajaka commo |
| 02:31.53 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 02:32.09 | cajaka | Commo? |
| 02:33.07 | prpplague | communications |
| 02:33.58 | prpplague | cajaka my training was in "acquiring" and repairing foreign commo equipment |
| 02:34.14 | cajaka | wow |
| 02:34.20 | cajaka | Not goint to ask anything further |
| 02:35.02 | cajaka | The shooting booth I am making is for the MWR paintball program |
| 02:35.58 | prpplague | cajaka ahh we used one back in 1991, it was more like the old school deer hunter |
| 02:37.10 | cajaka | This is more like a carnival game, main program is a timer for how long it takes to shoot 8 targets. |
| 02:37.36 | prpplague | ahh |
| 02:38.56 | prpplague | landley yea the inventory/POS is a weird business |
| 02:39.19 | prpplague | landley as your buddy Mirell had atest with his experience with the $$ processing |
| 02:40.59 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 02:42.34 | landley | I may go take another nap... |
| 02:42.37 | prpplague | ok so on tv you see lots of shows with... doctors that are weird, lawyers that are weird, police officers that are weird, none of which loose their job and get paid really well. so where is the tv show about a computer geek that is weird ? |
| 02:42.54 | landley | I think it's sort of assumed. |
| 02:43.03 | cajaka | It crowd on BBC |
| 02:43.37 | landley | For a long time the US tried variants of that. "The wizard" (a technical genius midget!) VR5 (a hot blonde computer genius!) |
| 02:43.39 | prpplague | cajaka that on just bbc or is it on bbc america? |
| 02:43.42 | landley | Didn't go over very well. |
| 02:43.52 | prpplague | indeed |
| 02:44.26 | cajaka | BBC, I liked vr5 |
| 02:44.35 | prpplague | i have to admit one of my favorites is the Pretender |
| 02:45.28 | prpplague | cajaka ahh, shame, bbc america hardly plays the things that make bbc interesting |
| 02:46.05 | prpplague | landley you like red dwarf? |
| 02:46.43 | landley | yup. |
| 02:46.49 | landley | You can't have my shiny thing. |
| 02:46.56 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:46.56 | landley | It's my all-time bestest find I ever found in the whole of today. |
| 02:47.00 | landley | And it does two amazing things... |
| 02:47.06 | prpplague | HA |
| 02:47.11 | landley | All hands on deck! Swirly thing alert! |
| 02:47.28 | prpplague | love that show |
| 02:47.35 | landley | I actually had a bit of a problem the first time I watched the Buffy Musical Episode (at a sing-along) because the big bad is played by Danny John-Jules. |
| 02:47.39 | landley | Woah! Crease! |
| 02:47.56 | cajaka | Might as well ask old Who or new who? |
| 02:48.04 | landley | cajaka: both. |
| 02:48.11 | prpplague | both |
| 02:48.14 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:48.21 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp180.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 02:48.22 | landley | Original recipe had 30 years of great stuff, the new one can't match the depth. |
| 02:48.34 | landley | The new one has also never perpetrated "Horns of the Nimon" or "The Gunfighters", either. |
| 02:48.57 | landley | The new one gets huge brownie pointes for bringing the series back _RIGHT_. |
| 02:49.08 | landley | Even making the 8th doctor cannonical, which is problematic but they did it anyway. |
| 02:49.09 | prpplague | indeed |
| 02:49.44 | landley | I would love to see "The Four Doctors" with Sylvester McCoy, Paul McGann, Christopher Eccleston, and David Tenant. |
| 02:49.53 | landley | (They've already done two three and five...) |
| 02:50.14 | prpplague | not entirely sure i like torchwood |
| 02:50.21 | cajaka | I've seen three and five when was two? |
| 02:50.25 | landley | McCoy has an excuse for looking old (he looked old handing off the role), as does McGann. Eccleston and Tenant don't yet. |
| 02:50.32 | landley | cajka: sixth doctor and second doctor. |
| 02:50.43 | landley | Some heavy handed anti-meat polemic set in spain. |
| 02:51.02 | landley | Not an inherently good episode, but made up for it with the second doctor and Jamie. |
| 02:51.25 | landley | If you seen the nancy button "Take an androgum to lunch", that's where that's from. |
| 02:51.26 | cajaka | Did one of the whos start acting like someone else? |
| 02:51.39 | landley | hmmm? |
| 02:51.56 | landley | Well, William Hartnell had a very good double in the five doctors, on account of being dead. |
| 02:52.14 | landley | I still think they should bring back Susan. |
| 02:52.15 | cajaka | I mean personality wise in that eps |
| 02:52.18 | prpplague | did anyone like blake 7 ? |
| 02:52.29 | landley | prpplague: only saw a few episodes. |
| 02:52.40 | cajaka | Dont remember it |
| 02:52.44 | landley | Heard early on about the "rocks fall, everybody dies" ending, and didn't want to get too invested. |
| 02:52.51 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:52.58 | prpplague | it was actually pretty darn good |
| 02:53.00 | landley | Also, they had a Cool Ship (the liberator) and they fried it for no apparent reason one episode. |
| 02:53.08 | prpplague | i was really surprised |
| 02:53.37 | prpplague | of course the effects were classic dr.who, but the plot was nice |
| 02:53.41 | landley | We're currently being fairly pleased by "House, MD" in the netflixx queue. |
| 02:53.49 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 02:53.51 | landley | You are aware that lots of old dr who episodes are on youtube, right? |
| 02:54.11 | prpplague | landley yea, thats how we got most of them when we were in barbados |
| 02:54.23 | prpplague | landley now days i'm slowly purchasing them from amazon |
| 02:54.40 | landley | Alas, bbc worldwide has been nerfing 'em. |
| 02:54.40 | prpplague | both my kids are who fans |
| 02:55.08 | landley | I had every episode that was available in 1987 on videotape. |
| 02:55.13 | landley | Alas, it's videotape. |
| 02:55.15 | prpplague | wow |
| 02:55.17 | landley | No longer have a player... |
| 02:55.21 | landley | Taped 'em off of PBS. |
| 02:55.48 | prpplague | landley i was sooo amazed when i was in barbados they played drwho prime time during the week |
| 02:55.58 | landley | Well it's good. |
| 02:56.05 | landley | They did the same with star trek for years... |
| 02:56.59 | prpplague | landley i assume you've travelled within texas but outside of austin some |
| 02:57.10 | landley | yup. |
| 02:57.24 | prpplague | landley for me growing up in hickville seeing dr.who in primetime is totally a foreign concept |
| 02:57.32 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:57.47 | landley | Driven up 35 all the way to minnesota, I-10 all the way east to florida, I-10 west all the way to california... |
| 02:58.10 | prpplague | landley but have you stopped at the dq for burger? heheh |
| 02:58.20 | landley | I generally only go to specific other parts of texas. |
| 02:58.29 | landley | There's a DQ on burnett here in Austin. |
| 02:58.32 | landley | Haven't gone inside. |
| 02:58.45 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:59.40 | prpplague | my uhc amp was to pick up the signal for channel 13 out of shreveport,la |
| 02:59.49 | landley | Other than warren buffett owning them, is there a _reason_ to go into a dairy queen? |
| 02:59.50 | prpplague | they were the only one i could get that played dr.who |
| 03:00.04 | prpplague | landley was a joke about small towns |
| 03:00.07 | landley | My father (electrical engineer) just built a honking big antenna, on a pole. |
| 03:00.17 | prpplague | oh lucky you |
| 03:00.26 | prpplague | my father was chemical engineer |
| 03:01.02 | prpplague | although he helped me when he could he didn't know much about electronics |
| 03:01.11 | landley | Yay chick-fil-a. |
| 03:01.13 | landley | Food. |
| 03:01.27 | landley | My father knew plenty, I just tended not to be that interested in the hardware side of things. |
| 03:01.50 | landley | Growing up on a tropical island halfway between hawaii and australia: you break it it's toast. |
| 03:01.57 | landley | Replacement time via mail, about 5 months. |
| 03:02.13 | cajaka | ouch |
| 03:02.19 | prpplague | landley oh oh island boy eh? |
| 03:02.41 | landley | kwajalein. |
| 03:02.41 | prpplague | landley interesting |
| 03:02.42 | prpplague | landley we yet again have something interesting in common |
| 03:03.11 | landley | Lawrence Lessig is running for congress? |
| 03:03.13 | landley | How did I miss that... |
| 03:03.28 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:03.43 | landley | Ah, right. He changed his mind. |
| 03:03.46 | landley | That would explain why. |
| 03:04.12 | prpplague | i have to say though, even though my parents weren't into computers/electronics, they were great in teaching how to learn |
| 03:04.32 | SpeedEvil | Mine too. |
| 03:04.59 | SpeedEvil | I got into electronics when in hospital at age 8? I was given an electronics kit from the school physics department. |
| 03:05.37 | landley | I had an "electronic experiments kit" when I was 11 or so. |
| 03:05.40 | landley | I broke half the components. |
| 03:05.46 | SpeedEvil | Oh - asthma. |
| 03:05.47 | prpplague | i might not the best in a single darn thing, but i can learn something to the point of making than many people |
| 03:06.10 | SpeedEvil | It wasn't one of those kits. |
| 03:06.16 | prpplague | i might not the best in a single darn thing, but i can learn something to the point of making it useful than many people |
| 03:06.23 | SpeedEvil | This was _Very_ oldschool |
| 03:06.41 | SpeedEvil | Batteries, lights, all on _robust_ screwable together boards |
| 03:06.47 | prpplague | SpeedEvil indeed |
| 03:06.59 | prpplague | landley radioshack? |
| 03:07.13 | landley | prpplague: closest radio shack on kwaj was 5000 miles away. |
| 03:07.20 | landley | Closest in NJ was in a mall, but I didn't have a car. |
| 03:07.25 | prpplague | landley i'm sure i told you that my wife is from barbados |
| 03:07.55 | landley | yup. |
| 03:08.00 | prpplague | landley we lived there for awhile |
| 03:08.07 | prpplague | landley totally not a geek culture |
| 03:08.10 | landley | Mine's from california by way of ecquador. |
| 03:08.20 | prpplague | i went from hickville, to rastville |
| 03:08.28 | landley | New Jersey is an anti-geek culture. |
| 03:08.40 | landley | Jocks and preppies as far as the eye can see. |
| 03:08.47 | prpplague | landley fade is from ecquador? |
| 03:08.49 | landley | They _hate_ smart people. Actively. |
| 03:08.57 | landley | prpplague: no, but her parents were missionaries and she grew up there a lot. |
| 03:08.57 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 03:09.03 | prpplague | landley ahh |
| 03:09.18 | prpplague | landley that makes sense though |
| 03:09.43 | prpplague | landley i would expect fade not to have a traditional USA up bringing |
| 03:12.56 | prpplague | landley i want to place a guess, you and fade aren't terribly interested in owning a house or other realestate? |
| 03:16.29 | landley | Actually we're pondering doing so. |
| 03:16.36 | landley | We own a condo now, and we should be paying it off this year. |
| 03:17.00 | landley | The problem is, Fade wants a yard with a fence around it, but also easy walking access to a grocery store and coffee shop. |
| 03:17.12 | landley | Alas, places like that _start_ at $300k in Austin. |
| 03:18.06 | prpplague | indeed |
| 03:19.20 | landley | Reading mini-msft's new post, and the yahoo "peanut butter" manifesto... |
| 03:19.20 | prpplague | ok well its time for me to go beat^h^h^h^h put my kids to bed |
| 03:19.20 | landley | Nice to keep tabs on the context in the industry... |
| 03:19.20 | landley | g'night. |
| 03:19.26 | prpplague | landley long day tomorrow gotta do this gprs thing |
| 03:19.34 | landley | Gotta drive to houston. :P |
| 03:19.35 | prpplague | landley indeed, take a break |
| 03:19.56 | prpplague | landley get some rest, don't want to read about your car accident on /. |
| 03:20.08 | landley | What do you think the next 5 months _is_ if not a break from real open source development? |
| 03:20.18 | landley | I wouldn't make slashdot. |
| 03:20.42 | prpplague | landley think not? |
| 03:20.54 | landley | nope |
| 03:21.34 | prpplague | open (pun intended) bar and lots of strippers |
| 03:21.38 | landley | Not going there. |
| 03:21.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:22.03 | landley | Oh, a friend I showed the nail board to thinks I could productize it pretty easily. |
| 03:22.17 | prpplague | landley oh? |
| 03:22.25 | prpplague | landley do tell |
| 03:22.26 | landley | Get Impact Linux on it (that's FWL's new name), with a good documentation bundle, and resell it to developers as a rapid prototyping kit. |
| 03:22.41 | prpplague | landley thats what we are looking for |
| 03:22.44 | landley | Speaking of which, did you ever get those kernel patches broken up? :) |
| 03:22.55 | landley | Well, Will's a salesbeing. I can't do sales. |
| 03:23.05 | prpplague | yea got them broken and started testing today |
| 03:23.09 | landley | (I got a book on closing. Might help.) |
| 03:23.14 | landley | Coolness. |
| 03:23.29 | landley | Oh, and the perl removal patch doesn't ever have to call the perl script. |
| 03:23.34 | landley | It can be removed completely from the makefile. |
| 03:23.38 | prpplague | i'll send you a copy against 2.6.24 and submit against 2.6.25-rc3 |
| 03:23.51 | prpplague | landley oh lovely |
| 03:23.51 | landley | Just have a comment at the top of the header that it was "generated by scripts/thingy.pl -arg1 -arg2 -arg3..." |
| 03:24.00 | landley | Because there is _no_ platform that allows you to enter the mhz. |
| 03:24.06 | landley | All of 'em give a menu of predetermined options. |
| 03:24.16 | landley | hpa was wrong about that, 99.9% certain. |
| 03:24.17 | prpplague | ahh |
| 03:24.28 | landley | (It's simply not in any of the Config files, you see...) |
| 03:24.37 | prpplague | not as of yet |
| 03:24.42 | landley | If the kconfig files don't let you do it... |
| 03:25.04 | landley | You can say "not as of yet" about any design constraint ever. |
| 03:25.11 | landley | And you wind up with infrastructure in search of a user, quietly bit-rotting. |
| 03:25.33 | landley | No 8-bit processor runs Linux, as of yet. |
| 03:25.58 | landley | User Mode Linux doesn't hae to build under 64-bit windows (with LLP64), as of yet. |
| 03:26.45 | landley | Well, nobody spoke up in favor of my patches when I posted 'em to lkml. |
| 03:26.54 | landley | So obviously the embedded community doesn't care about perl being required to build. |
| 03:26.58 | landley | I have a patch that fixes it for me. |
| 03:27.17 | landley | I'm happy to publish this patch and update it, but I've been written off as a voice in the wilderness as far as getting it in. |
| 03:28.00 | prpplague | i don't think it is so much that the embedded community doesn't care, its more they have feel there is no reason to respond as they will be ignored |
| 03:28.04 | landley | In 2.6.26 I'll probably try to find an excuse to require python to build, and submit a patch for that. |
| 03:28.10 | landley | Then maybe Ruby, or PHP... |
| 03:28.33 | landley | Wait until the Linux build collapses under its own weight... |
| 03:28.42 | landley | prpplague: I'll guarantee you they'll be ignored if they don't respond. |
| 03:28.49 | landley | Self-fulfilling prophecy that. |
| 03:29.01 | landley | I'm not a codependent enabler. Wanna stay slient? I'll happily make the problem WORSE for you. |
| 03:29.16 | landley | I've never done the whole "don't worry about me, I'll just sit here in the dark and go blind" mitigation thing. |
| 03:29.23 | prpplague | that may be true, but i doubt that i have any have weight when it comes to kernel issues |
| 03:29.25 | landley | I do the "oh, cool, I can use this light bulb elsewhere then? Thanks!" |
| 03:29.47 | landley | You have a real world use case. |
| 03:30.02 | landley | keep in mind that there are entire platforms with one guy behind them. |
| 03:30.12 | landley | James Bottomley and... um... begins with an S. |
| 03:30.15 | landley | not sasquatch. |
| 03:30.48 | prpplague | landley but see thats exactly where the problem lies, alot of real world cases don't sit well with the linux "idealistic" community |
| 03:31.19 | prpplague | i am just as much as an advocate for "nice form" as anyone |
| 03:31.31 | prpplague | but end the end, i have to make it work |
| 03:31.37 | landley | right now, they don't know that they actually exist. |
| 03:31.40 | landley | People really do X. |
| 03:31.49 | landley | I've gotten in arguments with Linus about stuff over this. |
| 03:31.58 | landley | (Via email, we've never exchanged words in person.) |
| 03:32.24 | landley | Real world use cases and the plusses and minuses of approaches they take (and who is impacted by them how) are information they do not have. |
| 03:32.33 | landley | Their approach is "change it and wait for somebody to complain". |
| 03:32.41 | landley | Nobody complains == nobody is affected by this change. QED. |
| 03:33.23 | SpeedEvil | Rather than 'project is stable and builds once every couple of years, so isn't tracking kernel' |
| 03:34.03 | landley | I have a "build without perl" patch in Impact Linux. |
| 03:34.12 | landley | I'll keep it up to date for my use. |
| 03:34.31 | landley | If kbuild starts requiring perl, I'll either patch around it or reimplement the whole of kbuild in something that ISN'T MAKE. |
| 03:34.52 | prpplague | landley yea you have a point |
| 03:34.57 | prpplague | landley it is a slow creep |
| 03:35.21 | prpplague | landley we've started doing the same thing, keeping our own patches to fix what we have issue with |
| 03:36.37 | landley | I repost 'em to the list periodically. |
| 03:36.44 | landley | That's my "shut up and show me the code" element. |
| 03:37.03 | landley | I need to dust off miniconfig, but it's "just good enough" without a patch... |
| 03:37.19 | landley | Horrible UI and no error reporting, but it _works_... |
| 03:37.28 | landley | (Oh, and you need to provide "menu open" symbols, which is sad.) |
| 03:38.02 | landley | Not my problem for the next 5 months... |
| 03:38.10 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:38.27 | prpplague | landley if you need a list of good nudie bars in houston let me know, hehe |
| 03:39.09 | prpplague | landley seriously if you get chance, a short visit to sugarland is interesting |
| 03:42.14 | prpplague | lordy my 2 are more than enough |
| 03:42.55 | prpplague | landley i'm headed to bed with my barbados beauty, get some rest |
| 03:42.59 | prpplague | later folks |
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| 14:16.58 | prpplague | morning all |
| 14:26.30 | prpplague | hmm |
| 14:26.31 | prpplague | http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetail&item=ACC11187 |
| 14:26.36 | prpplague | nice looking project case |
| 14:28.44 | GPSFan | prpplague: at 24.99/10 that's a bargain. comes with powersupply too.... |
| 14:28.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: indeed |
| 14:29.07 | prpplague | GPSFan: they have this one too - http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetail&item=ACC11185 |
| 14:31.16 | GPSFan | I like the first one better, unless of course you have more crap than will fit in the first one. |
| 14:31.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: indeed |
| 14:33.03 | prpplague | GPSFan: the first one looks like a metal case |
| 14:33.32 | GPSFan | it does, but may be plastic. |
| 14:33.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: either way it would make cool project case |
| 14:34.57 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetail&item=CES11616 |
| 14:35.10 | prpplague | GPSFan: i'm wondering how well the hammer would run using the internals for that |
| 14:36.20 | prpplague | anyone have experience using the max3100 spi uart ? |
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| 15:19.22 | wmat | prpplague: note, I'm attempting to get the website moved today. |
| 15:19.38 | prpplague | wmat: ok thanks, sorry i could not be of more help |
| 15:19.45 | wmat | no problem |
| 15:19.45 | prpplague | wmat: its just been beoych the last week |
| 15:19.57 | wmat | i certainly understand how that feels |
| 15:20.19 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 15:20.40 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greeting |
| 15:21.02 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I have a nice "stay at home and sleep" day yesterday |
| 15:21.33 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ahh |
| 15:21.44 | chouimat|work | prpplague: worked 25 hours monday :) |
| 15:21.57 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yikes |
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| 15:23.52 | prpplague | anyone know someone who can do ncruses apps that has some free time? |
| 15:29.42 | SpeedEvil | myr: sine-wave |
| 15:30.04 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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| 15:47.42 | chouimat|work | steliosk: why do you think they called it curses in the first place |
| 15:55.43 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:56.04 | prpplague | its a pretty easy program, just not my cup of tea |
| 15:57.05 | steliosk | ncurses remind me of my first days into programming when 'windows', frames etc were done with dashes |
| 15:59.33 | CosmicPenguin | heh - coincidently, I am just now hacking on a tiny curses implementation for coreboot payloads |
| 16:00.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 16:01.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was just shopping around to see if i could bribe someone to do this ncurses app |
| 16:01.20 | SpeedEvil | I think the first time I used it was nethack. |
| 16:01.47 | CosmicPenguin | libc + several filesystem drivers + curses in 70k |
| 16:01.48 | CosmicPenguin | yay! |
| 16:02.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: nice |
| 16:04.31 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 16:21.25 | Mirell | I wonder how landley is in Houston. |
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| 16:25.35 | RobotGuy | Good Morning everyone. |
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| 16:28.41 | Mirell | 'allo |
| 16:29.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have a toolchain question. |
| 16:30.12 | prpplague | i might have a n answer |
| 16:30.18 | RobotGuy | :D Good |
| 16:30.22 | prpplague | which reminds me |
| 16:30.30 | prpplague | sjhill: you get your build working ? |
| 16:30.44 | RobotGuy | Why does buildroot want to keep rebuilding the final gcc? |
| 16:31.49 | RobotGuy | It seems like everytime I add a new package to compile. gcc gets rebuilt. |
| 16:32.10 | RobotGuy | Well, not new package, another package from buildroot. |
| 16:38.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it shouldn't |
| 16:38.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It does though. |
| 16:38.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: are you doing a make rootclean before doing the build? |
| 16:38.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, because I am just adding packages to be compiled for the rootfs build. |
| 16:39.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it make have something to do with the tweak i did on the .mk files for gcc when i was in your system |
| 16:39.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll double check when i have time |
| 16:40.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. It's not harmful, just takes longer to add packages to compile is all. |
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| 16:50.57 | RobotGuy | I have about 19 MB free RAM on my Hammer. Not bad. |
| 16:51.12 | prpplague | nice |
| 16:51.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you ended up going with a pure jffs2 rootfs, most of the ram would be free |
| 17:02.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmm. I'll be loading most of my software from the thumb drive though. However, I have been looking at ways I might use /mnt/flash. I just have to see how much software I can stuff into about 10 MB of flash. |
| 17:07.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you go with a pure jffs2 rootfs, you can get around 14mb of flash |
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| 17:12.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I thought it didn't make sense to use jffs2 on a thumb drive though. |
| 17:12.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it doesn't |
| 17:12.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: /mnt/flash is already jffs2 |
| 17:12.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think you are missunderstanding what i'm saying to do |
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| 17:13.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Probably |
| 17:13.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: stick with what you got now, later when you feel comforable you can make some changes |
| 17:13.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are you saying if I just used the flash and no thumb drive? |
| 17:13.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no |
| 17:13.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 17:14.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I still have to figure out how to get all the software I want onto Hammer, including packages that put stuff in /lib and /bin. I have figured out how to force some stuff into using /usr only. |
| 17:15.39 | RobotGuy | It takes some careful editing of the various package .mk files. |
| 17:18.14 | RobotGuy | It's going to cost me almost $300.00 to finish W.A.L.T.E.R. 2.0. That's mostly the cost of 5 servos and a gripper for the end of the arm. |
| 17:18.34 | SpeedEvil | What about a blowtorch instead of a gripper? |
| 17:18.50 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: W.A.L.T.E.R. is a friendly robot. |
| 17:19.24 | SpeedEvil | Several blowtorches, arranged to form a happy face? |
| 17:21.40 | prpplague | bummer, looks like we are gonna settle with wiav |
| 17:21.46 | kajaca | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.49 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 17:22.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, not good! |
| 17:22.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: WHY?? |
| 17:22.35 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I'm sure he'd be quite happy to fight it if you provide an adequate legal indemnity against losses, and funding for legal action. |
| 17:22.49 | SpeedEvil | Should only be a few million. |
| 17:22.54 | prpplague | management and the insurance company figure it will be cheaper to just pay them to go away |
| 17:23.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's the problem. They are taking the easy, but NOT RIGHT, way out. :( |
| 17:23.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we aren't in the business of "the right way", we are hear to make money |
| 17:24.00 | prpplague | s/hear/here |
| 17:24.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It still sucks, because WAIV will keep on doing what they are doing and bullying companies into paying them. |
| 17:24.29 | prpplague | yep |
| 17:25.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Someday, maybe somebody with deeper pockets will step up to bat and slap WAIV, HARD. |
| 17:25.17 | RobotGuy | (and other companies like WAIV). |
| 17:25.21 | prpplague | yea, not likely to happen for awhile |
| 17:31.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just a note, when adding pages to the wiki, if the page is specific to the hammer preface the wiki page name with Hammer |
| 17:31.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: remember the wiki is used by many other projects as well |
| 17:31.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, OK. |
| 17:32.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, you already changed it. Good. |
| 17:33.22 | RobotGuy | I found a new Python toy to tinker with.. PyRo - Python Robotics. :D |
| 17:41.27 | Crofton | Dirk hangs out on OMAP and davinci lists |
| 17:42.28 | RobotGuy | He seems to be really active with TI stuff. |
| 17:46.22 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, i see that, just curious how he came to be doing posts on the elinux wiki |
| 17:47.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, Dirk is active with TI ARM stuff, so that would seem to fit elinux too. |
| 17:47.18 | Crofton | I have mentioned the elinux wiki on omap/davinci lists |
| 17:48.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that is true, but alot of developers aren't familiar with the elinux wiki |
| 17:48.17 | prpplague | Crofton: ahh |
| 17:54.15 | prpplague | why would you want to do that? |
| 17:54.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is any development going on to add displays like the nice 240x320 display from Spark Fun? |
| 17:55.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, ultimately that is all I really need. I need Python (and eventually Squeak) for robotics, and a native toolchain to compile C/C++ stuff natively (such as addon modules for Python). |
| 17:55.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no development needed, it works fine |
| 17:56.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why do you need to do it natively? |
| 17:56.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Any info on how to properly connect it up? |
| 17:56.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It's just easier to natively compile some stuff, like the Ralink driver. |
| 17:56.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: nothing posted |
| 17:56.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i disagree |
| 17:57.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you are a going to waste soooo much time trying to that |
| 17:57.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How is it a waste? |
| 17:58.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because you can have it compiled on your pc in minutes, and its gonna take your hours and hours on the hammer |
| 17:59.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have lots of time and Hammer can be compiling while I do other stuff. I just can't get my brain around building the ralink driver on the PC and getting it into my kernel. |
| 17:59.26 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 17:59.29 | RobotGuy | Heck, I could even let hammer build over night. |
| 17:59.46 | prpplague | took me like 2 minutes to do a test build of the ralink driver |
| 18:00.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah, no doubt. I just couldn't see how to get it into my Hammer kernel. |
| 18:00.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what do you mean? |
| 18:00.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How to get it to build using the buildroot toolchain. |
| 18:01.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there is nothing to do, just add the path to your kernel and type make |
| 18:02.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, I will look again. The path to the toolchain in the Makefile for the driver? |
| 18:02.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no |
| 18:02.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you add the path to your kernel source |
| 18:03.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I still am not understanding, sorry. My head is hurting and I can't focus well on stuff like that. Hurts more the more I try to concentrate. :( |
| 18:03.12 | prpplague | ok |
| 18:04.28 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-252-241-18.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:11.39 | kajaca | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:14.48 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-3933.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 18:15.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do I just set KERNDIR to the path of my kernel sources? What about the compiler that will be used? |
| 18:18.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh what? |
| 18:18.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: To build the ralink driver. |
| 18:19.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: edit the makefile, set the LINUX_SRC= to the path to your kernel source |
| 18:20.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: make sure that your PATH environment variable is set with a patch to your compiler |
| 18:20.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have my buildroot toolchain path first in the list. |
| 18:21.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so if you do from a command line: which arm-linux-uclibc-gcc |
| 18:21.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: does it return the correct path? |
| 18:21.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It finds the buildroot |
| 18:22.10 | prpplague | but does it have the correct path? |
| 18:22.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes |
| 18:22.38 | prpplague | i.e. does it show: /Devel/ARM9/Hammer/buildroot/build_arm/staging_dir/bin/arm-linux-uclibc-gcc ? |
| 18:24.14 | RobotGuy | Yes, /Devel/ARM9/Hammer/buildroot/build_arm/staging_dir/bin/arm-linux-uclibc-gcc |
| 18:24.42 | prpplague | ok so if you edit the makefile set your you linux_src , all you have to do is type make |
| 18:26.48 | RobotGuy | OK, so I have to change the line that has: KERNEL_SOURCES := /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build to be: KERNEL_SOURCES := ../../linux-2.6.22 ?? |
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| 18:31.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i don't see anything marked KERNEL_SOURCES in the make file |
| 18:31.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sure you you got the right drivers? |
| 18:32.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's what is in my Makefile for the ralink driver. |
| 18:32.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: where did you download the driver from? |
| 18:32.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have the rt73-cvs-2008021115 sources |
| 18:32.47 | prpplague | no clue what that is |
| 18:32.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: where did you get it?? |
| 18:36.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I can not find it again. :( What sources do you have? |
| 18:37.11 | prpplague | http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdr.php?id=225 |
| 18:37.43 | prpplague | http://www.ralinktech.com.tw/data/drivers/2008_0117_RT73_Linux_STA_Drv1.1.0.0.tar.bz2 |
| 18:51.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I can not make it work. :(:(:( |
| 18:51.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what seems to be the problem? |
| 18:53.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do not know. :( |
| 18:56.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It has two selections for PLATFORM - PC and CMPC |
| 18:57.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: in the PC section set the LINUX_SRC= to your path for the kernel source |
| 19:00.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, I set it to ../../linux-2.6.22 and did make. It built, but I don't know where the module went. |
| 19:01.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: module should be right there |
| 19:01.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just do a search for *.ko in that dir |
| 19:03.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, I see rt73.ko |
| 19:03.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How do I know it used the right compiler? |
| 19:05.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: file ft73.ko |
| 19:05.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have rt73.ko |
| 19:06.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: type the following command at the command line: file rt73.ko |
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| 19:07.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahhh, it says: rt73.ko: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, ARM, version 1, not stripped |
| 19:07.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So it did use the right compiler. Now I should just have to copy the module to where the other kernel modules get installed, right?? |
| 19:08.02 | wmat | prpplague: moving a wiki is a PITA! |
| 19:08.11 | prpplague | wmat: indeed |
| 19:08.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: correct |
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| 19:13.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I put rt73.ko in /lib/modules/2.6.22/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/ so now I have to move the /lib/modules/2.6.22 dir to my project root/lib/modules dir. Whew, now I have to automate all this in my initrd build script. |
| 19:13.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh, you'll need to copy the rt73.ko to the initrd after you do the kernel module install |
| 19:14.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Right. That's what I am going to do in my initrd build script just after doing "make modules_install" |
| 19:15.01 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 19:15.19 | RobotGuy | Then I move the whole 2.6.22 modules dir to my rootfs |
| 19:15.29 | RobotGuy | It should work. |
| 19:17.33 | ds2 | morning |
| 19:23.01 | ds2 | prpplague: did I miss some other things or were you thinking of running the hammer off a cap + a hand crank generator? |
| 19:23.26 | prpplague | ds2: yea it was just a wandering thought |
| 19:23.51 | prpplague | ds2: thought about getting one of the flash lights that has spring coil |
| 19:24.01 | prpplague | ds2: they are suppose to be around 4.2v |
| 19:24.17 | ds2 | RobotGuy: no being negative... it is just a Nokia N800 or 770 is going for less then $200 and those are OMAPs. Not sure why anyone _NEEDS_ the EVB's |
| 19:25.05 | ds2 | prpplague: I had the same thoughts a few months ago and almost bought a flashlight to disassemble for this purpose..the local dollar store had a squeeze charge version that I got a few of but the internal are tight |
| 19:25.11 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would like a nice multimedia MPU for one thing, for image and vide processing. Atmel's AVR7000 might be better though, and it is a lot more accessible. |
| 19:25.26 | ds2 | prpplague: I wonder if it would make a better demo for the hammer w/power management |
| 19:25.59 | ds2 | RobotGuy: not saying don't use the OMAPs, just saying there are cheaper ways of doing it. |
| 19:26.13 | RobotGuy | ds2: Like the AVR7000? |
| 19:26.29 | RobotGuy | $73.00 for an evel board. |
| 19:26.40 | ds2 | RobotGuy: sure and they are even willing to provide docs ;) |
| 19:26.42 | RobotGuy | s/evel/eval/ |
| 19:26.47 | ds2 | try getting docs from TI |
| 19:27.23 | RobotGuy | ds2: I've been really interested in the AVR7000 (NGW100 Network Gateway board) ever since it was introduced. |
| 19:27.42 | ds2 | prpplague: are you going to do it? |
| 19:27.56 | RobotGuy | I guess it would make more sense just to make a board like the NGW100 the main controller if I was going to do that though. |
| 19:28.19 | prpplague | ds2: if i can find time |
| 19:28.51 | ds2 | RobotGuy: only "problem" is that it uses a custom core, non ARM |
| 19:29.14 | RobotGuy | I want to be able to do onboard video processing. |
| 19:29.30 | ds2 | prpplague: what kind of apps were you thinking of running on it? |
| 19:29.33 | RobotGuy | ds2: I know. It does run Linux though. |
| 19:30.00 | RobotGuy | By onboard, I mean on the robot that has a video camera. |
| 19:30.09 | ds2 | RobotGuy: but you are somewhat limited in find free, pre-optimized code where as w/ARM, there are tons of it out there |
| 19:30.28 | prpplague | ds2: nothing specific, i was just curious about how long i can power it |
| 19:30.55 | RobotGuy | ds2: I know. -sigh- C code can be ported though. Something like OpenCV, for instance. |
| 19:31.29 | ds2 | prpplague: prehaps you should start a very low power Linux page on the wiki for stuff like this |
| 19:31.38 | RobotGuy | I'm going to have to check and see what the AVR7000 code base is like as well as what support is there. |
| 19:32.03 | ds2 | if they do the raffle at ESC again, I might goto their talk just for that |
| 19:32.04 | RobotGuy | I want Hammer to be my main robot controller, with added boards as needed for specific tasks. |
| 19:32.20 | RobotGuy | ds2: What is ESC and this raffle? |
| 19:32.33 | ds2 | RobotGuy: ESC == Embedded Systems Conference |
| 19:32.50 | ds2 | Atmel last year had a talk on that chip and at the end they raffled off 2 of the boards |
| 19:32.56 | RobotGuy | ds2: Ah, OK, not something I can attend unless it was local. |
| 19:33.18 | ds2 | you are in portland? |
| 19:33.38 | ds2 | show is in San Jose in April |
| 19:34.16 | RobotGuy | ds2: There is an upcoming seminar on the AVR7000 series here in my area, but it costs $100.00. You get a fancy programmer type board plus an AVR7000 board - not the NGW100 though. |
| 19:34.56 | RobotGuy | ds2: Portland Metro area, in Beaverton |
| 19:35.16 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that's expensive for an individual |
| 19:35.41 | RobotGuy | ds2: Supposedly the programmer/debugger setup you get is worth around $300.00 though. |
| 19:36.38 | prpplague | ds2: not sure i understand what you mean |
| 19:36.45 | prpplague | <ds2> prpplague: prehaps you should start a very low power Linux page on the wiki for stuff like this |
| 19:36.52 | RobotGuy | If I could dedicate the AVR7000 board to just video and image processing, it would be very nice. I'd like to go to the seminar, but even if I do have the money next month, there are just 20 seats available. |
| 19:37.32 | ds2 | prpplague: was saying it may be interesting to start a page describing projects like the crank flashlight powered ARM board |
| 19:38.07 | ds2 | I thought I was the only one crazy enough to think about stuff like that... but apparently there are others |
| 19:38.14 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 19:38.23 | prpplague | ds2: yea if i do it, i will document it |
| 19:38.58 | ds2 | prpplague: I was thinking of something a little more general... sort of like a blog of various "very low power" arm stuff... maybe even a 6 potato hammer setup |
| 19:39.05 | ds2 | I think 6 is enough |
| 19:39.16 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.22 | ds2 | remember the potato clocks? |
| 19:39.34 | prpplague | oh i see what you are saying now |
| 19:39.46 | ds2 | going ``green'' ;) |
| 19:40.14 | prpplague | a page on running the hammer from unusual low power sources |
| 19:40.22 | ds2 | yep |
| 19:40.42 | ds2 | or maybe a Cuperous oxide solar panel powered one too |
| 19:42.46 | ds2 | one realization if you think about things enough is the state of the art early LED watches are almost completely doable by a hobbiest today |
| 19:42.48 | RobotGuy | ds2: There is an Event Details link on this page: http://www.regonline.com/Checkin.asp?EventId=187859 |
| 19:46.31 | RobotGuy | I'm even thinking about putting a LinkSys WRT54GL (WiFi B/G) router right on W.A.L.T.E.R. 2.0 |
| 19:47.15 | RobotGuy | Use the four port switch to connect various boards (including Hammer) via Ethernet. |
| 19:47.48 | ds2 | 4? I think it is a 5 port switch unless they cost reduced it |
| 19:48.05 | RobotGuy | ds2: 4 port switch + 1 WAN port. |
| 19:48.32 | RobotGuy | The WRT54GL runs Linux. |
| 19:48.51 | ds2 | RobotGuy: IIRC, the broadcom part only has 1 ethernet so it uses it a 5 port switch + VLAN to do that |
| 19:49.27 | RobotGuy | The WRT54GL implements a FOUR port switch plus WAN port. |
| 19:51.20 | RobotGuy | ds2: http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1133202177241&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=7724145678B200 |
| 19:53.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The addition to my initrd build script to handle the rt73.ko module worked the first time. :D |
| 19:53.38 | prpplague | good deal |
| 19:54.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would it be worthwhile to document my scripts on the Wiki? |
| 19:54.20 | ds2 | i can't say how I know this but - don't try to edit the makefile for the rt73 driver to be linked into the kernel. it leads to a hang |
| 19:54.47 | RobotGuy | ds2: the module hangs in the kernel? |
| 19:54.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not really |
| 19:55.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. I think my scripts are useful, but oh well. |
| 19:55.12 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that is a firmware thing. I think either OpenWRT or one of the other one will let you use it as 5 seperate interfaces if you configure it that way |
| 19:55.26 | RobotGuy | ds2: Oh, OK. |
| 19:55.40 | ds2 | RobotGuy: no, you can change the makefile and have rt73 linked into the kernel. that does not work. rt73.ko as a module is fine except for a few crashes :/ |
| 19:55.53 | RobotGuy | ds2: I was just referencing the stock firmware on the WRT54GL. |
| 19:56.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you are welcome to document it, but i don't think anyone is going to need them outside of you |
| 19:56.12 | RobotGuy | ds2: You've lost me. |
| 19:57.12 | ds2 | RobotGuy: you are fine if you don't edit the makefile |
| 19:57.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just thought it would be nice to have an automated process for doing stuff that might be done frequently like building an initrd. |
| 19:57.24 | ds2 | I am just not a fan of modules so.... |
| 19:57.35 | RobotGuy | ds2: I have to edit the Makefile to change the kernel source path. |
| 19:57.51 | RobotGuy | ds2: My kernel is fully modular. |
| 19:58.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats what buildroot is for :) |
| 19:58.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know that, but buildroot does not do what my scripts do. ;) |
| 19:59.03 | RobotGuy | I just will keep my scripts to myself. |
| 19:59.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats probably a wise thing |
| 19:59.41 | RobotGuy | Maybe I will just note that I have them on my Wiki page and leave it at that. |
| 20:00.05 | RobotGuy | Anyone that might be interested in them can contact me. |
| 20:01.34 | RobotGuy | Nobody but me cares about what I am doing with my robots anyway. |
| 20:04.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: normally people add packages to configurations to buildroot to do what you are doing with shell scripts |
| 20:08.47 | RobotGuy | I guess I don't see any sense in doing that for what I am doing. |
| 20:11.32 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm, the rt73 module is in my initrd now, but I can't load it. |
| 20:11.50 | RobotGuy | Must be a step I am missing somewhere. |
| 20:13.18 | RobotGuy | Dang length error again. I hate those because I never know for sure how to fix them. |
| 20:19.58 | *** part/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:36.10 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:36.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how big is your compressed initrd image |
| 20:39.47 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@tbaumgartner.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 20:41.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Building new initrd now - don't know yet. |
| 20:42.23 | RobotGuy | I have to wait for it to rebuild gcc-final |
| 20:43.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: 2.1 MB |
| 20:44.35 | RobotGuy | If all this works I can document this on the WiFi page. |
| 20:44.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, for your bootloader what do you have for the compressed image size? |
| 20:44.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm not sure which value that is. |
| 20:45.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that might be the problem hehe |
| 20:45.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: go to you apex build and do a make menuconfig |
| 20:45.35 | RobotGuy | Ok |
| 20:46.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: go to the platform setup |
| 20:46.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there is an entry that says "ramdisk compressed size" |
| 20:46.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what value is there? |
| 20:47.07 | RobotGuy | I have to reload my apex sources. Never did that after I blew away my whole Hammer dir. |
| 20:47.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok then i suspect thats your problem |
| 20:48.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Maybe. I am still using the same binay for APEX I built |
| 20:48.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i have to go pick up my little knot heads |
| 20:48.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which last i recal was configured for 2mb |
| 20:48.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I believe I left it at 4 MB. |
| 20:53.31 | *** join/#edev dbtid (i=m1bmcfmr@cpe-65-24-173-154.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 20:53.37 | dbtid | topic: AT45DB dataflash. |
| 20:53.51 | dbtid | the u-boot code i have has some pretty odd partition tables in them |
| 20:54.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK, found it |
| 20:54.50 | dbtid | what i learned recently is that if you want linux to be able to work with those devices, you have to make sure that the partition sizes are multiples of the page size. (or erase size, really; same thing i think for the dataflash parts) |
| 20:55.10 | dbtid | so maybe someone who uses u-boot and linux on an at91 arm chip has things setup kind of funny? |
| 20:55.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It's way too small in this source. 0x00100000 |
| 20:55.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Maybe set it to 0x0030000 ?? |
| 20:55.57 | RobotGuy | I mean 0x00300000 |
| 20:56.48 | RobotGuy | dbtid: I am not using u-boot. APEX. |
| 20:57.03 | dbtid | ... |
| 21:02.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So is setting compressed ramdisk size to 0x00300000 good? |
| 21:02.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I also adjusted the NOR copy to 3 MB for the ramdisk. |
| 21:05.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: APEX will not build - http://www.pastebin.ca/921142 |
| 21:11.00 | RobotGuy | No more length error either! :D:D |
| 21:19.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: got it working then? |
| 21:21.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am close! I can scan and see two wireless networks - mine and the local Police WiFi |
| 21:23.13 | chouimat|work | nice .... |
| 21:25.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I need a later version of wireless tools. The rt73 module is compiled for v22 and I have v20 on Hammer. |
| 21:25.58 | RobotGuy | This is sooooo close to working. I have the IP configured. |
| 21:26.13 | RobotGuy | I just can't set the essid and such for rausb0 |
| 21:26.43 | SpeedEvil | what happens when yoiu try? |
| 21:27.12 | SpeedEvil | something like iwconfig rausb0 essid kk |
| 21:27.18 | SpeedEvil | something like iwconfig rausb0 essid kklkjhk |
| 21:27.34 | RobotGuy | Hmm, the wireless-tools makefile says version 28, so I am a bit confused here. |
| 21:27.47 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Tried that and it does not set. |
| 21:28.01 | SpeedEvil | any messages in errors? |
| 21:28.05 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Tried iwconfig rausb0 essid thedynaplex network mode managed |
| 21:28.06 | SpeedEvil | syslog I mean |
| 21:28.09 | RobotGuy | No errors |
| 21:28.21 | SpeedEvil | you don't do that I think |
| 21:28.36 | SpeedEvil | only one argument I think |
| 21:28.48 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have to be able to set the essid, mode, encryption, etc. |
| 21:28.54 | RobotGuy | Oh, one setting per command? |
| 21:28.57 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:29.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do a ifconfig rausb0 up |
| 21:29.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: first |
| 21:29.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then do a iwconfig rausb0 essid thedynaplex |
| 21:29.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did that. rausb0 is up and configured for the IP address. |
| 21:30.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so if you do iwconfig rausb0 |
| 21:30.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what does it show? |
| 21:30.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It is not setting anything using iwconfig |
| 21:30.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok so what does it show when you do iwconfig rausb0 ? |
| 21:31.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/921185 |
| 21:32.31 | SpeedEvil | I assume iwconfig rausb0 essid on |
| 21:32.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/921187 (more info) |
| 21:32.36 | SpeedEvil | does nothing? |
| 21:32.40 | SpeedEvil | Or does it set it? |
| 21:32.42 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Assumtions are bad |
| 21:32.50 | RobotGuy | Assumptions too |
| 21:33.09 | SpeedEvil | No they are not. |
| 21:33.25 | SpeedEvil | It's reasonable to assume that you are in fact not just making up error messages to be annoying. |
| 21:33.42 | SpeedEvil | Sensible assumptions have to be made in order to determine faults. |
| 21:34.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so when you do iwconfig rausb0 essid test123 |
| 21:34.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then do a iwconfig rausb0 |
| 21:34.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what does it show? |
| 21:34.30 | SpeedEvil | And does 'iwconfig rausb0 commit' do anythign |
| 21:34.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No change. It is not set |
| 21:35.02 | RobotGuy | # iwconfig rausb0 commit |
| 21:35.02 | RobotGuy | Error for wireless request "Commit changes" (8B00) : |
| 21:35.02 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:36.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have had this adapter working perfectly under Windows XP |
| 21:36.56 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: does it scan? |
| 21:37.21 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes. I can see my own wireless network as well as the nearest Police WiFi node. |
| 21:37.53 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@tbaumgartner.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 21:37.57 | RobotGuy | Ralink has a UI for their wireless adapters. |
| 21:38.21 | SpeedEvil | Does anything popup on dmesg? |
| 21:38.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: windows is a whole different ball park |
| 21:38.59 | RobotGuy | Look at the very first two lines of my paste. |
| 21:39.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I realize that. I just noted that to show the adapter does work. |
| 21:39.36 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: you've had it scanning under linux? |
| 21:39.45 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes, I can scan. |
| 21:40.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: didn't doubt you on that |
| 21:41.39 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: tried a plug-replug cycle? |
| 21:42.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: More info added: http://www.pastebin.ca/921206 |
| 21:44.12 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely remember one driver not accepting an ESSID for an encrypted network until I'd setup the key |
| 21:44.58 | SpeedEvil | is it WAP or WEP? |
| 21:45.04 | SpeedEvil | WPA |
| 21:45.09 | prpplague | interesting it looks to have scanned ok |
| 21:45.24 | RobotGuy | My network has WPA2 |
| 21:45.38 | SpeedEvil | Does the driver under linux support it? |
| 21:45.53 | RobotGuy | I still think it is a mismatch on the wireless-tools version. |
| 21:45.55 | prpplague | not without wpa_supplicant |
| 21:46.24 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes, but I have never configured it under Linux. |
| 21:47.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the wireless-tools was built with buildroot? |
| 21:47.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes |
| 21:47.21 | SpeedEvil | I'd pull it, install on desktop, and see if it works there |
| 21:47.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: my guess is the tools are out of date |
| 21:47.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I had to add modutils and wireless-tools to my initrd |
| 21:47.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I agree |
| 21:47.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why modutils? |
| 21:47.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats a pure waste |
| 21:48.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I had to have depmod so I could do depmod -a. Otherwise I could not load the module. |
| 21:48.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sure you could |
| 21:48.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just insmod the require modules |
| 21:48.29 | SpeedEvil | You use insmod |
| 21:48.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That would not work until I installed modutils. |
| 21:48.42 | SpeedEvil | find /lib/modules -exec insmod \{} \; |
| 21:48.57 | SpeedEvil | Just run that several times :) |
| 21:49.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea insmod works fine with busybox |
| 21:49.18 | SpeedEvil | More logically, you use a simple insmod foo, insmod bar script |
| 21:49.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The rt73 module would not load without doing depmod -a |
| 21:49.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'll rebuild my initrd without modutils and test again |
| 21:50.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no need, just check and see what modules get loaded when you do a modprobe on rt73.ko |
| 21:50.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then try loading those with insmod |
| 21:51.13 | SpeedEvil | The hacky way is to try loading all the modules several times. |
| 21:51.17 | SpeedEvil | This will always work. |
| 21:51.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I will do that after I rebuild without modutils. |
| 21:51.42 | SpeedEvil | And then the kernel tells you the dependancies with cat /proc/modules |
| 21:51.52 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I don't want a hacky way. I need something that will always work. :) |
| 21:52.10 | SpeedEvil | It will always work - it's just slow. |
| 21:52.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: reboot without the module loaded, cat the /proc/modules |
| 21:52.27 | SpeedEvil | And it's only for working out dependancies |
| 21:52.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: modprobe rt73 , then cat the /proc/modules again |
| 21:52.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that will tell you which modules are being loaded |
| 21:52.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I will have to comment out a line in my inittab then, |
| 21:53.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh |
| 21:54.21 | RobotGuy | I had already added the lines to load and configure rt73 |
| 21:54.37 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.115.250) |
| 21:55.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I wonder if this needs the newer rt2x00 module. |
| 21:55.51 | RobotGuy | It should work with this module though |
| 21:55.59 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: have you had it working on a desktop? |
| 21:56.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not according to the linux-usb database |
| 21:56.05 | SpeedEvil | under linux |
| 21:56.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Only with Windows, have not configured it under Linux |
| 21:57.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i thought you said it worked on your linux desktop? |
| 21:57.02 | RobotGuy | rt73 should be the right module for this adapter |
| 21:57.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Nope, never said that. :) |
| 21:57.19 | prpplague | hmm ok |
| 21:58.02 | RobotGuy | Dang, I missed my free lunch today. |
| 21:58.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i never use modutils for my builds, always just rmmod/insmod the correct modules |
| 22:00.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I am not loading one module I need. There are wireless modules in the kernel |
| 22:00.27 | prpplague | anyone have a PSP ? |
| 22:00.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: correct, thats why you can you use the modutils to find out which modules you need |
| 22:01.01 | *** join/#edev nhoman (n=homann@89.100.83.14) |
| 22:01.11 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I've got someone that's had one apart and soldered up an external button interface to it. |
| 22:01.20 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: any specific questions? |
| 22:01.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i was curious about the USB port, is that just a slave port? |
| 22:02.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Which USB port? |
| 22:02.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i assumed there was only one |
| 22:02.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: is there more than one? |
| 22:03.00 | *** join/#edev kajaca (n=rakhus@32.139.241.126) |
| 22:03.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/921228 |
| 22:03.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: okie dokie |
| 22:04.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you have to do insmod rt73.ko |
| 22:04.35 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: the controller supports it |
| 22:04.46 | RobotGuy | # insmod rt73.ko |
| 22:04.46 | RobotGuy | insmod: can't open 'rt73.ko': No such file or directory |
| 22:05.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The modules that load on my PC Linux when I install the USB WiFi adapter are completely different. |
| 22:06.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh what? |
| 22:06.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you should be doing this on the hammer |
| 22:06.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you are trying to do this on your pc? |
| 22:06.52 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: oops - I mean - the controller does not support it. |
| 22:06.59 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4931b786775c6cd87e594e789dda3f53&topic=13380.0 |
| 22:07.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I AM doing this on Hammer. I am just saying when I do it on my PC <inux that the modules that load are completely different. |
| 22:07.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yes, that is normal |
| 22:07.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why?? |
| 22:07.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because you have different options that are compiled in the kernel |
| 22:08.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so you are in the same directory with rt73.ko and you type in insmod rt73.ko , right? |
| 22:08.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No. |
| 22:09.03 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: nice |
| 22:09.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which part is incorrect? |
| 22:09.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: no info though |
| 22:10.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, using the full path of the module works with insmod |
| 22:10.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok so it loaded with no complaints? |
| 22:11.19 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the specs i saw said that the usb port shows up as a mass storage device on the pc |
| 22:11.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/921242 |
| 22:12.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks good |
| 22:13.21 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: http://www.psp-hacks.com/forums/about40419.html |
| 22:13.46 | SpeedEvil | again, lack of info. |
| 22:14.31 | SpeedEvil | however, it seems to be a usb device, being used to access the PC via some sort of proto9col |
| 22:14.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Still can't set the essid |
| 22:14.52 | SpeedEvil | Rather than actual USB host |
| 22:15.16 | RobotGuy | I still think the problem is with wireless-tools |
| 22:15.37 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: First thing I'd do would be to get this working on my desktop with the exact same driver. |
| 22:15.55 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: "via the PSP's USB port" |
| 22:16.05 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: so it sounds like it does have a usb port |
| 22:16.19 | SpeedEvil | it's got a USB device port, yes. |
| 22:16.25 | SpeedEvil | I.E. it's a USB device |
| 22:16.41 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I do not have the exact sane driver for Linux on my desktop. |
| 22:16.49 | *** part/#edev dbtid (i=m1bmcfmr@cpe-65-24-173-154.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 22:16.59 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: so put it on. Or put the driver from the desktop on the hammer |
| 22:18.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats ok, just test first with your desktop |
| 22:18.56 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: interesting though |
| 22:19.09 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: must be using a custom device driver |
| 22:19.27 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 22:20.26 | SpeedEvil | The annoying problem with the webpages on the PSP is that they are written for idiots with no actual understanding of the hardware, and the 'plug a into b' level. |
| 22:20.30 | prpplague | yea from what i'm reading it sounds like they are doing a custom usb gadget driver and then using a utility on the pc side to send and receive files |
| 22:20.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: indeed |
| 22:21.01 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: see, a small version of the nail would work great with the psp |
| 22:21.12 | SpeedEvil | I disagree. |
| 22:21.19 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: oh? |
| 22:21.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: whys that? |
| 22:21.26 | SpeedEvil | Gut the PSP, place a hammer inside on a custom board. |
| 22:21.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: why? |
| 22:21.39 | SpeedEvil | Why not! :) |
| 22:21.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: too much work |
| 22:21.53 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I don't know what driver I need to match what I have on my PC Linux. |
| 22:21.58 | SpeedEvil | Though yes, it might work OK with nail. |
| 22:22.13 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: compile and install exactly the same driver. |
| 22:22.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: why wouldn't it work ok? |
| 22:22.17 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I think it would be the rt2x00 driver but am not sure. |
| 22:22.38 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: rmmod the existing driver, insmod the same one you're using on the hammer |
| 22:23.56 | *** part/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:25.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the psp has 802.11? |
| 22:28.43 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: is there no complete list of internal chipsets? |
| 22:38.22 | *** join/#edev uga (n=uga@unaffiliated/uga) |
| 22:45.54 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: yes, 802.11 |
| 22:45.57 | SpeedEvil | g I think |
| 22:46.04 | prpplague | interesting |
| 22:46.06 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I don't recall seeing one. |
| 22:46.09 | ds2 | hmmmm |
| 22:46.24 | SpeedEvil | The annoying part is the code security - I don't know what the current state is on that. |
| 22:47.31 | ds2 | RobotGuy: you can check if firmware is loaded by looking at dmesg or ifconfig and see if it shows a mac addr |
| 22:47.48 | SpeedEvil | ds2: it's scanning |
| 22:47.53 | SpeedEvil | presumably the fw is loaded |
| 22:48.04 | SpeedEvil | And he went away |
| 22:48.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: he's gone |
| 22:48.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: he gets frustrated easy |
| 22:48.57 | Crofton | must be a symptom of getting old |
| 22:49.53 | ds2 | ah okay |
| 22:50.00 | ds2 | at least it isn't panic'ing on him |
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| 23:12.35 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |