IRC log for #edev on 20080311

00:08.26Dr{Who}bla
00:16.05Dr{Who}ok i have to ask again because im getting confused. after this long someone here must have poped in and has seen me requst the patches for apex..  has no person here ever compiled apex?
00:18.12ce_geekI'm really hoping prp is around tomorrow :-/
00:18.21ce_geekI'm working on getting Hammer stuff documented
00:18.35Dr{Who}ya but i dont think it is fair to have it all be on him.. He is asking us to help and build this stuff : c )
00:18.54ce_geekYeah, I agree.
00:18.57Dr{Who}i cant be the first person to build apex
00:19.13Dr{Who}it took me like all of 4 hours to figure out i needed to build it to do my own work.
00:20.50Dr{Who}does a mailing list exist?
00:21.42ce_geekThat I do not know.
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00:56.48ce_geekDr{Who}:  Are you around for a little while?
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06:19.30buildrooteverytime i use buildroot to create croos-tool and rootfs...i run into a problem saying:
06:19.43buildrootcould not read symbols: Archive has no index; runranlib to add one.
06:19.52buildrootwhat does this mean?...why i face this problem?
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06:32.26RobotGuyBoo
06:33.13buildrootno one ever bothers to reply:'(
06:33.26RobotGuyNot always.  It's late.
06:35.59RobotGuyDo you have a Hammer Board?
06:36.17buildrootim facing a problem related to buildroot
06:36.34RobotGuyx86>
06:36.36RobotGuy?
06:37.09buildrooteverytime i use buildroot to create croos-tool and rootfs...i run into a problem saying:
06:37.14buildrootcould not read symbols: Archive has no index; runranlib to add one.
06:37.22buildrootwhat does this mean?...why i face this problem?
06:37.39buildrootrunranlib == run ranlib
06:37.54RobotGuyDid you try deleting all of toolchain_build_* buildroot/staging* and the project dir and start a rebuild?
06:38.16RobotGuybuildroot/build_*/staging* is correct
06:38.38buildrootyes...i deleted everything earlier...downloaded fresh copy of build root.....
06:39.12RobotGuyHmmmm.  How is your .config setup?
06:39.44buildrootone second...lemme place my .config on rafb.net/paste
06:39.48RobotGuyAre you using ARM, x86, or something else?
06:39.51RobotGuyOK
06:40.05buildrootmipsel
06:42.39buildroothere is my .config file: http://rafb.net/p/wTZOxq19.html
06:43.40RobotGuyWhich SVN build is your buldroot?
06:44.54buildrootno idea... how can i find this? from Config.in.mirrors file?
06:45.12buildrooti'm new to buildroot etc
06:45.59RobotGuyAre you using the buildroot that is most current?  I just did an svn update and got loads of updates to svn #21284
06:46.28RobotGuyWhere did you get your buildroot??
06:47.53buildrooti got it from svn://uclibc.org/trunk/buildroot
06:48.24RobotGuyOk then go to your buildroot dir and do 'svn update'
06:48.42buildrootbut first i should do make clean. right?
06:48.59RobotGuyShould not matter, but it would not hurt
06:49.55buildrootok...i've a plan...i get everything neat and clean...so better i just dl everything again. what you say?
06:50.50RobotGuyYou could certainly do that.  Make sure you del the whole buildroot dir.
06:51.30buildrootcool
06:52.07buildrootand was there any fix related to the problem i'm that i'm facing in the updates?
06:53.05RobotGuyI don't know about fixes relating to mips.
06:54.57buildrootand why we need to run ranlib?
06:55.45buildrootand it will be great for newbies, if you guys can make some dependency graph of all components.....so that noobs can see which options to select to make minimal rootfs
06:56.37buildrootor place some very simple .config files on your website for buildroot.....so that noobs can see which options for each arch to select to make a minimal working rootfs
06:56.54RobotGuyThe only person I know of here who has real good knowledge of buildroot (and can fix stuff) is prpplague.
06:57.13RobotGuyMost of us here just deal with buildroot for ARM.
06:58.29buildrootcan you show me simplest .config file that you used to create a working rootfs?
07:00.26RobotGuyYes, but you will have to change the config to mips arch.
07:01.24buildrootsure thing...but it will give me idea of what is most likely to work
07:02.40buildrootanother question is why buildroot does not showw option for ext3 format? if my kernel has support for ext3 only then buildroot is not straightforward for me to work
07:04.01RobotGuybuildroot: http://www.pastebin.ca/937838
07:04.24RobotGuyWe base all of our buildroot configs on this one.
07:04.40RobotGuyJust change it to your arch (mips) and try it.
07:05.07RobotGuybuildroot has no knowledge of what your kernel is configured for,
07:05.18RobotGuyAt least not as far as I know.
07:07.53buildrootthnx a lot
07:11.15buildrootis hammer board a good option for learning purpose?
07:20.38buildrootwhat is the difference between EABI and OABI?
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07:51.55RobotGuyI am not sure of that difference, but we just use OABI.
07:53.06RobotGuyWell, I like my Hammer Board, and I have certainly learned a lot by tinkering with it.  There isn't much that could compete with it at its price.
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07:54.07buildrootok....can you compare hammer board with: http://youtiyou.com/S3C2440.aspx
07:54.11buildrootsee model_5
07:54.17buildrooti've ordered it
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08:06.19RobotGuyWow, I am quite envious of you having ordered that board.
08:09.29RobotGuyI am going to use Hammer as the main controller for one of my robots.
08:11.09buildrootwow...you make robots as well?
08:11.12buildrootthats great
08:11.33buildroothow long have you been in robotics?
08:11.38RobotGuyYes, I design and build robots.
08:12.09RobotGuyYou can see some early development videos of W.A.L.T.E.R. on my website.
08:12.42RobotGuyI've been into robotics since August of 2006.
08:13.18buildrootwow....how you learnt about robotics?...your majors are in EE/Electronics/Mechatronic?
08:13.25buildrootgimme url of your website
08:13.38RedhatterHang on... a bunch of GNU makefiles just ordered a hammer board?
08:14.26RobotGuyI've learned a lot on various forums, some tutorials (Lynxmotion has some great tutorials on building and running robots they sell).  I've just worked at it myself until I get the results I want.
08:14.34RobotGuywww.thedynaplex.org
08:14.55RobotGuyI do not have any degrees.
08:15.11RobotGuyNo, they do not order hammer boards.
08:15.18buildrooti see and how old are you?
08:15.30RobotGuyI am probably one of the oldest on this channel.
08:15.39RedhatterAnd now the bunch of makefiles is asking people about their age.
08:15.51RedhatterIS this some AI implemented in GNU make?
08:15.56RedhatterWhat svn revision of buildroot is this?
08:16.09RobotGuyI have not heard of the things you are talking about.
08:16.19buildrootRedhatter: i'm a normal human being.....not some bot:P
08:16.35Redhatterbuildroot, Then why are you named after a piece of software? ;-)
08:16.59RobotGuyRedhatter is trying some humor. :)
08:17.09buildrootbecause is was irritating me....so i thought best way to irritate buildroot is to take its name:P
08:17.18buildrootis == it
08:18.52Redhatter`time
08:19.01RedhatterUgh... my bot isn't here
08:19.02RobotGuy~time
08:19.04purlYou cannot understand nature's perfect time cube! (2008.03.11  8:19:04 GMT)
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08:19.46RedhatterBut there's no need now.
08:19.52RobotGuyI'm working on my own bot to install on W.A.L.T.E.R.
08:20.11RobotGuyI need to port eggdrop to buildroot.
08:20.26RedhatterWell buildroot is right here ;-)
08:20.57Redhatterno_body is based on Perlbot
08:21.52buildroothehe
08:22.21buildrootRobotGuy: reading your story.....u drop out from school:P
08:23.43RobotGuyI graduated from High School and had various electronics courses from High School onwared, including some college classes and a year of technical school in electronics.  Programming courses also - I program in three or four different languages now (used to be more).
08:24.17buildrootvery cool.
08:24.46RobotGuyThanks.  Most people don't really have any appreciation for what I have accomplished.
08:25.44buildrooti don't know how its asked in west, but will you mind if i ask you about what happened in 2000?
08:26.33RobotGuyI've never gotten any degrees - just High School diploma and a Diploma in Electronics Technology (that one year of technical school).
08:26.40buildrooti dont want to hurt you...if you dont like talking about it...we gonna get our discussion to some other direction:D
08:27.32RedhatterThere are some like yourself, who are highly skilled in their field.  Then there are others who have more degrees than a circle, but despite this, are still more helpless than an armless man with itchy testicles.
08:27.47RobotGuyI officially became classified as fully disabled in 2000, but it really started in 1998.  I just had to wait two years for the government to figure out I am disabled.
08:28.19Redhatter"disabled"?
08:28.20RobotGuyI do not mean this as a brag in anyway, but I can run rings around many with oodles of degrees and certifications.
08:28.42RobotGuyYes, I am officially disabled since 2000.
08:29.08RedhatterDisabled how?  Missing limbs, visual/audity impairment, mobility problems?
08:30.03RobotGuyNothing physical other than two hip replacements on my left hip (the last one was December of 2006).
08:30.04buildrootwhats Asperger's Syndrome?
08:30.19Redhatterbuildroot, Google is your friend
08:30.47RobotGuyI've heard of that, but I think it was from somebody else Redhatter or maybe it was you.
08:30.48RedhatterThere's plenty of resources out there that'll tell you with greater accuracy, what the condition entails than what I can describe.
08:31.17buildrooti agree
08:31.46buildrootRobotGuy: Keep it up man!! you impressed me:D
08:31.52Redhatterbuildroot, In particular, have a look at stuff put out by Tony Attwood... he's one of the leading experts in AS.
08:32.01RobotGuybuildroot: Thanks.  I keep on keeping on as best I can.
08:32.15RedhatterI suppose this is where IRC is good ... disabilities are hidden.
08:32.28RedhatterIt's what you think and what you do ... not what you are.
08:32.40RobotGuyI've also completely taught myself 3D CAD, and purchased some cool 3D CAD software (took me a year to get it paid for).
08:33.33RobotGuyA company gave me a free robot to write software and tutorials for, but I have chosen to send everything back and quit that project.
08:33.46buildrootwhy?
08:34.17RobotGuyI do not care for the head person's attitude and they do not apparently understand disabilities that can not be seen.
08:35.17buildrootcorrect
08:35.17RobotGuyBy that I mean disabilities that are not obvious.  I can hide mine most of the time by using the internet.
08:35.38buildrootno need to hide....just be confident.....
08:35.52buildrootand compete with others and beat the shit out of idiots
08:35.54RedhatterThere are some real pricks managing companies these days.
08:36.25Redhatterbuildroot, These are people that, if you beat the shit out of them, there'd be nothing left.
08:36.34RobotGuyI just do what I do when I can do it and I don't care what people think one way or the other about it. I don't like being that way, but sometimes it is the only way I can deal with people. :(
08:37.12buildrootman you are so capable......so let others become your fan by seeing your skills and work:)
08:37.23buildrootthere is no limit of human potential
08:37.58buildrootand once you lose one thing, your other things get much much stonrger than rest of the people
08:38.06RobotGuyWhen I was working, I was often passed over for the most interesting projects and such even though I knew I could do it better.  The funny thing is, when the people actually doing the projects had problems, I was one of the first they came to for help.
08:38.11buildroottake challenge as an oppertunity;)
08:38.15RedhatterWe've had many an argument with the Faculty of Engineering at my uni, regarding the support they provide students.  (Or lack, thereof)
08:38.47RobotGuyI do not handle "normal" learning environments, as in schools, well.
08:39.08RobotGuyI gave up on schools in 1985.
08:39.24buildrootand i was born in 1982:P
08:39.52RedhatterAlmost to the day.
08:39.54RobotGuyI graduated High School in 1976, top 10% of my senior class.
08:40.18buildroothigh school == o levels?
08:40.30RobotGuyMy diploma in Electronics Technology is with High Honors. :)
08:41.45RobotGuyIv'e taught myself how to work with Microchip PICs and dsPICs, starting out with ARM9 and Hammer, and have been working with ARM7 (NXP LPC2148) but need a good toolchain for ARM7.
08:41.52buildrooti did bsc hons in compu sc....in 2005, my grades were very ordinary:P
08:41.56RobotGuys/Iv'e/I've/
08:42.14RobotGuyI've always been on the Honor Roll.
08:42.36buildrootvery cool
08:42.41RobotGuy:D:D
08:42.58RobotGuyI will have my 50th birtday this May.
08:43.08RobotGuys/birt/birth/
08:44.02buildrootlol....i'm almost half of your age:P
08:44.15RobotGuyI figured as much. :)
08:44.16buildrooti turned to 25 in december 25, 2007
08:44.24buildrootin == on
08:44.35buildrootso you are Uncle RobotGuy:P
08:44.54RobotGuybuildroot:  Yes, I guess I would be.. ;)
08:45.00buildroothehehe
08:45.37RobotGuyI am nearly old enough to have some kids on this channel, and probably am old enough in some cases.
08:45.51RobotGuyLike buildroot, for instance. ;) ;)
08:46.30buildroothehehe
08:48.32KazaLiteRobotGuy: see my privmsgs
08:51.23RobotGuyI was nearly hit by cars twice today, and bricked two routers yesterday. :(  NOT having such a good week. :(
08:52.09RobotGuyI got the license number of one of them and the police are going to call and give them some education.
08:54.21RobotGuyWell, I have had a bit of a rough day today so am going to head to bed and see if I can get some sleep.  I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning.
08:54.37RobotGuyGood night all. :)
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13:41.04prpplagueho ho *cough cough cough* ho
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13:58.44prpplaguewmat: eh gads, the spammers has been hitting the new wiki hard
14:00.20wmatprpplague: i know, i turned off anonymous editing and have been blocking IPs whenever I can
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14:01.23wmatCrofton: death is too civil a punishment for spammers
14:01.43wmatI'd prefer to make them suffer
14:02.00Croftonwaterboarding acceptable for spammers
14:06.40chouimat|workhi prpplague wmat
14:06.49prpplaguegreeting
14:06.53wmatchouimat|work: bonjour
14:08.00wmatprpplague: I don't see any spam since march 7th, am I blind?
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14:42.27prpplaguewmat: no, i was commenting on the stuff prior to the 7th
14:45.16ce_geekOkay, this is becoming irritating.  I'm getting closer to having enough details to nail this down but I'm not quite there yet.  It seems that whenever I leave either minicom or gtkterm open with my system connected to the flyswatter via USB and I've powered down the hammer, my computer will eventually lock up.  I can't make any sense of it at all.
14:47.28ce_geekThis morning was particularly odd because I had unplugged the hammer board last night before I left the lab.  I come back this morning to catch up on email and such, and it just all of a sudden locks up.  It only happens when I've got something like gtkterm going, and it seems to take time to happen.  WEIRD!
14:49.41prpplaguece_geek: that's very odd
14:50.01prpplaguece_geek: i've never heard of anyone reporting that type of issue with the ft2232 chipset
14:50.50LyosNorezelce_geek: perhaps there's a memory leak somewhere?
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14:54.29ce_geekprpplague:  I'm not confident it has to do with the chipset.  I've used those before on other projects and haven't had a problem.  It's got to be some odd issue either with my system hardware or some software.  It's just weird.  The way it faile today was particularly odd.
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15:13.32sunrunner20woot
15:13.38sunrunner20sf.net accepted the project
15:13.54ce_geekWhat project?
15:14.26sunrunner20a proccess run time checker
15:14.50ce_geekAh.
15:14.58sunrunner20basic yes
15:15.02sunrunner20but a good source of traffic
15:15.29ce_geekI honestly don't know much about it :)
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15:59.14ce_geekprpplague:  Dr{AFK} was looking for the source to Apex.  Has that been made available?
16:00.43ce_geekprpplague:  er, Dr{insertsomethinginterestinghere}
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16:10.31sorphinprpplague: yo ARMboy
16:11.32ce_geekHAHA
16:22.01prpplaguesorphin: hey
16:22.15prpplaguece_geek: yea, source for apex is on the cd
16:22.26prpplaguece_geek: and on the wiki as well
16:23.14prpplaguece_geek: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Software_System
16:24.34sorphinprpplague: NXP LPC2106 ARM7
16:24.41sorphinwhatchuknowaboutit?
16:24.57prpplaguesorphin: not much since it doesn't have mmu, no linux
16:25.04sorphinprpplague: ah
16:25.15prpplaguesorphin: its a pretty popular chip for small microcontroller projects
16:25.28sorphinprpplague: right, the CMUCam3 uses it
16:25.55sorphincompletely OSS
16:26.06prpplagueahh
16:29.37sorphinprpplague: figured i'd ask, since you're the only ARM lackey i know
16:29.50prpplaguehehe
16:30.00sorphinwell, the only one that admits to it anyways
16:30.00sorphinlol
16:30.13sunrunner20prpplague: no traditional linux :)
16:30.35sunrunner20brb
16:31.31sunrunner20bk
16:37.28sunrunner20LOL
16:37.38sunrunner20<tgc> hi! I'm looking for a way to make "massmail" from the admin interface available to registered users,
16:38.37sunrunner20hmmm
16:38.46sunrunner20how to make a lenight of wire .66 ohms
16:38.56sunrunner20unfortunatly its not nichrom
16:40.06adyerhttp://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/wire_resistance.html
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16:42.50sunrunner20lol
16:42.57sunrunner20I need like 10' of my wired
16:43.21adyerwhy do you need .66 Ohms?
16:43.47sunrunner20that figures to 18A at 12v :)
16:44.33adyerare you making a heater?
16:45.04sunrunner20electric fuse :)
16:45.21sunrunner20and maby a giant electromagnet
16:48.03agaffneysorphin: umm, ouch
16:48.24sunrunner20i've got some 40awg wire that i plan to pump enough current though it to turn it red hot
16:48.59sunrunner20experiment w/ black powder ^_^
16:49.43sunrunner20*experiments
16:49.47sunrunner20made my own ^_^
16:49.57adyersunrunner20: why dont you just buy some model rocket igniters?
16:50.13sunrunner20way to expensive
16:50.22sunrunner20like $.5 ea
16:51.58sunrunner20and i'm working on an air core electromagnet for the hell of it
16:53.57sunrunner20i've been making the things for ages
16:54.02sunrunner20always wondered how well they would work
16:58.20SpeedEvilFor what?
16:58.40sunrunner20a magnet?
16:58.50SpeedEvilair core electromagnets are almost always the wrong answer
16:59.13sunrunner20i'm not looking for a solution to an question
16:59.16SpeedEvilThey are several (3-4?) orders of magnitude worse than non-air core in most apps
16:59.28sunrunner20i'm doing it for the hell of it
17:01.43SpeedEvilOne thing to realise - for a given element and packing fraction - it doesn't matter what thickness of wire you use - just the power dissipated in the coil
17:01.54Dr{Who}prpplague.. morning.. i need the hammer patch to apex
17:02.03Dr{Who}can u hook me up...
17:02.42prpplagueDr{Who}:  http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Software_System
17:04.23prpplagueDr{Who}: when in doubt always check the wiki first
17:04.51Dr{Who}thanks.. that will work. i had not even considered there was no patch and that i would just have to use the older version.
17:05.03Dr{Who}that was kinda dump of me.
17:05.38Dr{Who}ill make a patch from that old version and its orig and work it into apex 1.5.8
17:06.03prpplaguethere a reason you want touse 1.5.8?
17:06.53Dr{Who}na just figured if im doing this i should try to keep stuff up to date. i have most of my own distro running from svn already
17:08.17SpeedEvilhttp://www.dothetest.co.uk/ cycling related
17:08.21SpeedEviloops
17:08.23SpeedEvilmischan
17:08.26prpplagueDr{Who}: bootloader stuff is usually not that intensive on newiest release supported
17:09.15prpplagueDr{Who}: you do know the current release of Apex is 1.5.13, right?
17:10.25Dr{Who}hmm odd i eded up with 1.5.8
17:10.40Dr{Who}no i didnt. i thought i grabbed the latest.
17:11.26Dr{Who}ok i must have been up too long the other night and convinced myself i was needeing something i didnt need..
17:11.33prpplaguehehe
17:11.40Dr{Who}it just compiled so ill just stick with 1.5.6 : c )
17:11.51Dr{Who}i just needed to build a 2k init
17:12.23prpplagueDr{Who}: yea unless there is a specific feature you want, 1.5.6 is best for the hammer
17:12.39prpplagueDr{Who}: why the 2k init?
17:13.27Dr{Who}my distro's init is big
17:13.44Dr{Who}i stripped out a lot but i have need of more than i could fit in 1k
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17:14.34prpplagueDr{Who}: i'm still out of it from the drugs, so do try to explain today :)
17:16.00Dr{Who}my initrd file is 1.3M just over 1024k so it was not fully copying it
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17:17.18prpplagueDr{Who}: right thats just a change in the initrd compresses size in apex
17:17.41prpplagueDr{Who}: how does that apply to the 2k init?
17:17.44Dr{Who}yep.
17:17.50Dr{Who}sorry still need more coffee
17:17.55Dr{Who}i ment init as in initrd
17:18.05Dr{Who}and not 2k but 2048k
17:18.11prpplagueoh oh ok
17:18.12prpplaguegotcha
17:18.31prpplagueDr{Who}: yea, you can just make the change in the apex config
17:18.32Dr{Who}while you may have too much in your system now : c) i need more.....
17:18.42Dr{Who}what about the environmnt?
17:18.50Dr{Who}Source region for ramdisk image
17:18.58prpplagueyea, you'll need to tweak that value too
17:19.04Dr{Who}nor:1280k+2048k
17:19.16prpplaguecorrect
17:20.38prpplaguein the platform setup for apex, change the "Ramdisk Compressed Size"  to something like 0x00200000
17:21.24Dr{Who}yep.
17:23.00Dr{Who}so it took me less that 12 hours to get my distro moved from intel to this and most of that time was just the svn branching : c ) so all in all this is a very easy platform to work with
17:23.29Dr{Who}just had to tweek my buildroot configs and strip down my stuff to your default configs prior to adding peices back on i need
17:24.04Dr{Who}i did notice that openocd has officialy dropped support for 'erase' and a few other commands so i was not able to use a new version of that
17:24.36Dr{Who}even if i tweeked the configs it seemed to have problems writing with no errors.
17:25.04ce_geekDr{Who}:  Did the removal of 'erase' reduce the functionality of OpenOCD?
17:25.15Dr{Who}no they just changed the command.
17:25.29ce_geekOh
17:25.31ce_geekThe wiki (http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_How_to_build_Kernel) says that .size for the space in flash to hold the new rootfs image is specified in hex.  It says that 2MB = 0x340000.  In decimal, that's 3407872.  Does not seem to compute :-/
17:25.39Dr{Who}best i can tell they have been wanting to do this a long time. seems to be an arguement over sector based writing or raw memory location addressing
17:26.22Dr{Who}best i can tell 'flash erase_sector 0 0 127'
17:26.30Dr{Who}would be the new command.
17:26.44Dr{Who}and flash write_bank 0 ./apex.bin 0x00
17:27.04ce_geekDr{Who}:  Do you recommend any general OpenOCD howtos?  I've only used the default .cfg files for the hammer, I'd like to know more about it.
17:27.53Dr{Who}reading the site is a little thin.. the developer's email list is interesting stuff
17:28.38prpplaguece_geek: the size should be calculated like this:  bootloader(256k)+kernel(1024k)+ramdisk(2048k)=0x340000
17:28.54Dr{Who}i have not decided if i want to get into the ugly details about flashing and debugging just yet. I have only so many brain cells.. and most of those are targeted at getting my existing build tree running.
17:29.30prpplaguece_geek: yea there are some wiki pages and basic info on their web site
17:29.55prpplaguece_geek: there is also a forum on sparkfun for openocd
17:30.52prpplagueDr{Who}: interactive conversation about openocd can be also be had on #openjtag
17:31.33ce_geekprpplague:  Ah, okay.  That breakdown is helpful.
17:56.02ce_geekprpplague: heh, it's exactly dead nuts 0x0340000 too.  I love it.
17:57.04ce_geekprpplague:  So what are the consequences of just cranking that value up pretty high?
17:57.13ce_geekprpplague:  Lose out elsewhere?
17:58.22prpplaguece_geek: yea, you looks from your jffs2 partition
18:00.29ce_geekprpplague:  Cool.  Separate question:  If I created a simple hello_world application and I want that to put it into the root filesystem, is it best to do that by decompressing it and mounting it, adding the file, and then recompressing it, or is there a way to get buildroot to do it?
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18:19.19prpplaguece_geek: yes, that is one way to do it, another would be to copy the file to the jffs2 partition
18:19.42prpplaguece_geek: you can transfer the file using rx/rz over the serial console
18:19.54ce_geekOh, ya.
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18:42.40prpplague~seen  AchiestDragon
18:42.44purlachiestdragon <n=me@whipy.demon.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #openjtag, 54d 5h 45m 56s ago, saying: 'bk'.
18:46.27ds2hey prpplague... you're alive :)
18:46.41ce_geekprpplague:  Hmmn.  So, before you compile the kernel, you have to edit that .size parameter, which includes the size of the kernel.... but you don't know the size of the kernel until you compile it.  :)
18:48.21ce_geekprpplague:  I guess if .size is set to allow a 1024KiB kernel and you notice that the size of zImage is larger than 1024KiB, you have to adjust .size and recompile again?
18:50.15prpplaguece_geek: correct
18:50.22prpplaguece_geek: 1024k is a good figure
18:50.31ce_geekprpplague:  Cool.
18:50.53prpplaguece_geek: generally of your kernel is over 1024k , it usually means you need to move some of the drivers into modules
18:50.59ce_geekprpplague:  Trying to do a half decent job explaining these nitty grittys in my document.
18:51.31ce_geekprpplague:  Yes, and there's a procedure for doing that which I want to document.  I think I have some discussion about it in the logs.  We talkd about modifying the makefile and such.
18:51.59ce_geekprpplague:  Is 1024k just a good benchmark, or are there other reasons to be cautious about not having the kernel larger than that?
18:53.14prpplaguece_geek: the larger the kernel, the more time it takes to copy from flash to sdram, the more time it takes to decompress, and in general longer before you can start running userland applications
18:53.38ce_geekprpplague:  Good enough.
19:05.05ds2prpplague: did you see that docs are available for the latest OMAP?
19:05.27prpplagueds2: sorry no, i've been really sick for over a week
19:05.56ds2prpplague: they are putting out a board for ~$150ish with it
19:06.06prpplaguenice
19:06.50ds2for me, unfortunatley, that means no hammer
19:07.04ds2check out http://www.beagleboard.org/
19:14.59ce_geekIf I want to remove a package from the hammer root filesystem, is it apparently not sufficent to just deselect it in the menuconfig?
19:16.37prpplaguece_geek: yea once you've had that pacakage built its populated in build
19:16.40prpplaguece_geek: you deselect the item
19:16.45prpplaguece_geek: then do the make rootclean
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19:16.56prpplaguece_geek: then redo the make
19:17.00ce_geekprpplague:  But make rootclean is a bit of a hack, right?
19:17.10prpplaguece_geek: correct
19:17.49ce_geekK
19:23.49ce_geekIs it doable to set up OpenOCD to copy over just the kernel or just the root filesystem?
19:25.22prpplaguece_geek: yea, completely doable
19:25.39ce_geekprpplague:  Cool.  I'll get there eventually.  :)
19:25.39prpplaguece_geek: but generally if thats all you need, its easier to send it via the bootloader
19:25.53ce_geekprpplague:  Talking to apex?
19:26.14prpplaguece_geek: correct
19:26.24ce_geekhttp://www.elinux.org/Hammer_How_to_Reflash_Apex_and_kernel
19:26.31ce_geekprpplague:  That?
19:26.50prpplagueyep
19:26.55ce_geekCool
19:29.10ce_geekare "xr" "erase" and "copy" apex specific commands?
19:32.20prpplaguece_geek: yea, those are commands for apex
19:32.30prpplaguece_geek: xreceive is the actual command
19:33.25ce_geekoh
19:33.39ce_geekHow do you get the apex> prompt?
19:35.22prpplaguece_geek: reset the hammer and you should see the apex boot messages
19:35.35prpplaguece_geek: press ctrl-c to stop the normal boot and get a prompt
19:35.39ce_geekHeh, ya.  Sorry.
19:35.52ce_geekYep!
19:54.09ce_geekTrying to figure out which package will provide me with the xmodem toys.
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19:57.15prpplaguece_geek: lrz
19:57.39ce_geekprpplague:  Looks like I don't have that :(
19:57.41prpplaguece_geek: do you mean on your pc dside?
19:57.45ce_geekyeah
19:57.53adyertry lrzsz
19:58.16ce_geekLooks like I'll have to download and compile from source.
19:58.50prpplaguece_geek: thats odd
19:59.43ce_geekprpplague:  Seriously.  Grrr.  Maybe it's included in another package.  I'm inquiring now on #archlinux.
19:59.43ce_geekIt has become a bit of a circus over there.  The number of users on that channel has doubled in the last year to 404.
19:59.52adyerhttp://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=243
20:00.50ce_geekadyer: Yeah, I see that now.  Thanks!
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20:02.43adyerprpplague: would you happen to know a source for marvell wifi based SDIO form factor wifi cards?
20:03.19prpplagueadyer: sorry, no, everything we work with is OEM modules
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20:17.53ce_geekAlright, in business now.  Use "sz" to send the root filesystem?
20:19.27ce_geeker, sx?
20:24.45ce_geekAnyone have an example of how to use sx to send stuff to apex?
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20:38.56ce_geekI got minicom to do it.  It's transferring now.
20:48.35ce_geekHrm.  I'll have to time this.  Not sure it's any faster than just using OpenOCD
20:58.05ce_geekminicom works, but the file selection dialog is very cumbersome.  If anyone recommends a better way to send stuff via xmodem to apex, that would be helpful.
20:58.17SpeedEvilkermit!
20:59.26ce_geekI'll check out kermit
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21:03.19SpeedEvilKermit was perhaps not a serious suggestion.
21:04.14adyerSpeedEvil: you can use kermit for xmodem, you shell to the kermit prompt, type !< sx filename and it should go
21:04.31adyeror perhaps sx -k
21:05.16ds2!< in kermit executes things with stdio redirected to the serial line?
21:05.52adyerds2: yes (this is IIRC - it's something like that)
21:06.08ds2oh nice
21:06.23ds2i usually just open another xterm and sx foo </dev/ > /dev
21:06.46ds2kermit is the only really usable serial terminal software
21:07.19adyerds2: I think theres a way to change the default send command in kermit to use xmodem too
21:07.44ds2rather not... I am happy with the send command (I use u-boot mainly)
21:09.05adyerds2: xmodem is a rather funky thing, lots of variants and options over the years.  Just spent a while getting a jtag and xmodem combo working for flashing bare boards :-(
21:10.35adyerds2: wanted a bdi2000, got a wiggler
21:18.16ds2adyer: sx seems decent enough to just work
21:18.31ds2adyer: why the bdi2000? it seems to depend on being able to get config files for it
21:22.49adyerds2: supported the mips cpu I was using, runs at a decent tclk, has ethernet support and isn't windows only, seems well recommended
21:26.09adyerand better than the macraigor sw - if I talk about that, I;ll start sounding like flyback :-)
21:26.19ds2haha
21:26.29ds2for the price, the flyswatter seems attractive
21:28.02adyerwe have a FT22332 board we use for ARM stuff with openocd, but getting the MIPS stuff ported over hasn't happened yet
21:28.35ds2oh I see. the only mips platform I can foresee ATM is the WRT54 broadcom stuff
21:29.38adyerI've been using MIPS since 1991 for various things, it's the arch I know best :-)
21:31.20ds2:)
21:35.59adyerlol, just found a checking that consists entirely of adding brace pairs to one line if statements, // comments, and changing return function(x) into ret = function(x); return ret;
21:36.11adyers/checking/checkin
21:36.46ds2??
21:37.18adyerit's like all the kernel coding style nonos in one
21:37.51ds2ah checkin heh
21:38.29ds2former coworkers insisted on doing stuff like that
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23:39.27sunrunner20well
23:39.31sunrunner20THAT didn't work so well
23:40.02sunrunner20I tried to use a 40awg wire as a heater
23:40.23MonMotha40awg?  That's damn small stuff
23:40.26ce_geekA heater for what?
23:40.30ce_geekAnd yeah, holy crap small.
23:40.37sunrunner20clectric fuse :)
23:40.43sunrunner20i just nuked it
23:40.44sunrunner20>_<
23:40.47ce_geekI bet.
23:40.50ce_geekHow much current?
23:41.00sunrunner20no idea
23:41.04sunrunner20didn't get a reading before it died
23:41.07sunrunner205v though
23:43.21ce_geekWhat did you do, use the strands from a piece of stranded wire?
23:43.31ce_geekThe smallest wire I work with is 30awg for wire wrapping
23:44.24MonMotha30awg can get a bit small for doing some PCB repairs
23:44.32MonMothaI needed about 34 or 36 today, but only had 30
23:44.43sunrunner20no
23:44.46sunrunner20an inductor
23:45.52ce_geekHaha.  That'll do it.
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23:49.45sunrunner20<PROTECTED>
23:49.46sunrunner20oops
23:49.53sunrunner20I put 12V through the wire
23:50.01sunrunner20>_<

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